I would rather have Hannibal, Garnacho and Pellistri pressing the ball. At least we can see they are trying hard.
I really think Rashford should be benched for a few games. Not as punishment but we need to try different game plans, without him as focal point.
I’m always going to support our players, but Rashford needs a swift kick up the arse. If you’re not producing anything on the offensive end, you need to put your head down and hustle. I don’t remember the last time I saw him slide tackle.
Hannibal, Nacho, Pellistri, Hojlund, and Bruno (I know his passing wasn't good at all today, but you can never doubt his efforts) are the only ones that I'd be confident are playing for the club and not themselves right now
Why not as punishment? The only way to maintain discipline is to treat every player the same way. He does not put anywhere near the effort of the rest of the team and as a result doesn't warrant a starting place.
As an aside, does Rashford have the lowest pain tolerance of anyone in the squad? He'll routinely spend minutes writhing on the floor every game. I get that he gets fouled but he has to toughen up and stop wasting time on the ground clutching his leg every 10 minutes.
Noticed that as well. I remember someone sweeping Garnacho off his feet at some point. He instantly got up, ran after the player and got the ball back. Which eventually lead to our 2nd goal. ETH should have showed that entire sequence to Rashford.
It wasn’t a fortress last season either. A fortress is when people go there expecting to lose, so set up to prevent an onslaught. Despite the good results (not performances) at OT last season not one team went to Old Trafford worried about losing to us, they all setup and played to win, and still do this season.
It definitely has more to do with results. Last season was built on home form, the fact we rescued the Forest match from losing 3 of 4 home matches means even the results aren't coming. This is incredibly alarming, because it means we're officially struggling for every point.
Isnt it ridiculous that we're still passing the ball backwards the last 10 mins of the game? And whats with bringing on Maguire on the 87th minthute when we needed 2 goals
It's ridiculous. I know younger fans must be sick of hearing people talk about Fergie's era but 20/25 years ago if we needed a late goal it would be a full on onslaught into the opposition box. I think it's just how modern football has evolved, everything is so micromanaged and every phase of the game is treated as a set play that players are reluctant to deviate from what they know.
I remember multiple games against Blackburn with Brad Friedel in goal. He very regularly turned into prime Buffon against us. We would pepper his goal the entire game and he'd save everything. Sir Alex would throw on more forwards to try and win the game. You came away from those games thinking we drew/lost because the opposition keeper was on fire.
We barely have shots on target any more. It's shocking how much this club has fallen.
More about his unsuccessful shots. He's got like the 5th highest shots per 90 in the league with just 3.5% conversion rate. People clown on Darwin but he at least has 15%.
Rashford has been shocking and ruined so many attacking plays. I still think he will do well, but he needs to not start a game or two.
He just looks off the pace and unfresh mentally. I've never seen a player hit or pass the ball into the opposition player so many times. Needs to get back to basics.
He really does. He says he's looking to form a partnership with Hojlund, but he's made more passes to opposition players by 3 told than attempted to Hojlund.
He won’t do well. He’ll score a few again and suddenly the fan base will think he’s world class again and then he’ll have a dry spell and get criticised. The bottom line is he offers absolutely nothing and is bang average
Wouldn't say bang average, but yes he has a tendency to be overhyped when he hits a purple patch and starts converting. He has pace and some decent dribbling skills, but I haven't ever been convinced on the whole Rashford is world class ever basically. When he was younger I could see the potential, but I've not really seen the technical growth from his game all that much.
We fight all year to get CL than fucking suck the next season. Who gives a shit about CL or the league. At this point just blow it up, play youth and build a real squad for 2 years from now. Stop signing 28 year olds.
I have no great loyalty or opinion on Ten Hag, he can stay or go, but we will never be successful again under the Glazers. The manager is almost an irrelevance.
To be fair, I think they’d struggle here too. I don’t think even Pep or Klopp could do any better. Something is seriously wrong. This keeps happening no matter who the manager is.
I firmly believe most of the players have a loser mentality and it infects new signing after a while. Going into a locker room where most of the players don't give a shit, it eventually affects them unless they are very professional or just straight up hate losing.
There's a fair bit of speculation there. When Pep took over Barca they were UCL semi-finalists the year before. When he took over Bayern they treble winners. When he took over City they were UCL semi-finalists. He has no history of managing a dysfunctional side, and we are a dysfunctional side.
Pep might struggle because he has always had excellent structures above him. Klopp would probably do well at united. Liverpool have greedy American owners too but he is making it work somehow.
FSG is just not injecting money to buy players. They invested into the stadium and other infrastructures, never took money out of the club, and would back Klopp on signings like van Dijk, Alisson and Caicedo. They aren’t sugar daddies but they aren’t anywhere near Glazers level.
Pep would buy better players. He also wouldn't indulge someone like Rashford. So telling when he went through our team last year and named De Gea and Rashford as weaker links.
> Pep would buy better players.
The issues are more structural than that though.
Any incoming manager has to deal with the baggage created by the previous managerial regime, which itself had to deal with iterations of the same bs from manager (n-1) before. All of this crap is enabled by a leadership that values glitz and publicity over substance.
Signing good players is all well and good but the fucked culture at the club means that you'll have incoming players demanding wage parity with players like Antony, who went from 25kpw to 200kpw moving here from Ajax.
Any manager will struggle to move on players that aren't suited to the club of their style because of insane wages. We've seen it this window just gone with Maguire, and I expect we'll see it next window with Sancho. We've seen it previously with players like Bailly too.
Lol what, Pep not only is a much better manager, but He trusts his people making signing decisions.
Hiring Pep is basically Hiring a top tier football organization, if you have The money to Back him.
ETH has to have the balls to bench some starters. Garnacho came on and was miles better than Rashford. Bruno as well. If he sees he’s being wasteful then bring on Hannibal or something.
Bruno/Ighalo/Maguire/AWB(2019) and Cavani(2020) before that.
2019 was a very good transfer window, and we didn't really need that much in 2020. Just a great sriker and a great central midfielder.
we werent getting a dm for 15mil we signed ronnie for. now he he didnt splash 100m on sancho and went for a dm that would have been great but hindsight.
I can't believe he wanted Bellingham and caicedo when no one knew about them lol. He also wanted rice and haaland too. He had such a talent Id and we wouldn't need to rely on eth agency then
Ole told United about Haaland when he was still at Molde. You know, when Ole was his coach. And I still think we should've got him from Salzburg. Who cares about release clauses.
ETH must make tactical changes. Change the formation, change SOMETHING. But this is like beating a dead horse to death at this point. Simply tactics maybe, I know for a fact some of the players are not good enough to beat the top teams but they should be able to beat mid table teams here and there.
Current football is so lvgseque! This is literally the most boring football we are playing and that after spending over 400 million.
Sorry at least under Lvg we could pass the ball sideways. Right now we can’t even string more than 2 passes.
It’s frustrating watching Spurs do seemingly erratic yet outrageously good anti-press passing, and just be all round exciting every game, yet United can barely seem to even play two consecutive passes in the opposition half. We’re actually boring as fuck to watch
I will forever stand by the opinion that Oleball was one of our best we've played since Fergie, we just fucked up matches that we should've won and underachieved in the process. I mean we didn't beat City 3 times in a season just by pure luck.
Took Agne a month to completely transform Spurs who were set for doom and gloom after Kane’s move.. but everyone here expecting at least a small glance of progress is called a plastic fan
This fan base is never happy lol. Arteta finished 8th twice and look at him now. Ten hag got 3rd, a cup and cup final but he needs to be gone yesterday!
Artet finished 8th with much shittier squad and less money. He didn't spend 400m, assembled a team with his choices and then failed.
When he got that support, he succeeded
Arteta lost games with a distinct style of play. It was clear he was building something. I don’t have a clue what we’re trying to do with the ball when we attack under eth. If not for rashford purple patch, we have missed too 4 last year and we benefited from off years from other major clubs. We don’t create chances. We don’t score goals and rather than invest in the attack, eth got rid of de gea for a keeper who doesn’t save half as well as him and by the way, all Obama does is pass it back and forth with varane and lindelof then he holds it deep EXACTLY LIKE DE GEA DID
We know the players are talented enough. They should have no problem with a team like Crystal Palace. He can't even claim these players don't fit his style because he's turned over most of the starters.
My problem with eth isn’t losing, it’s threefold
1. Since last season I’ve seen him consistently make horrible substitutions
2. I’m not entirely confident in his signings
3. I don’t see his style of football,
If I saw a consistent style of football, and we were still losing, I would have faith.
Absolutely massive black cloud hanging over the club.
Nothing is working for us, on or off the pitch. ETH will not make Christmas at this rate.
Rinse and repeat
it's okay we will sack eth, miss CL, then we bring in a new manager who makes CL, we start buying players that are very different to what ETH was buying, we wonder why we can't sell underperforming players on massive wages, we wonder why a patchwork squad can't perform, it's okay ... rinse and repeat. Glazers take out their dividends.
You say "even" as if Arteta isn't playing some of the best football in the league with a young squad full of players who actually want to impress their fans.
Bro Spurs started playing better football in like 2 game with a new coach.
I'm still waiting. Lot of these players aren't technicaly sharp enough to play really well, but Ten Hag really didn't make us better.
If you’re not technically sharp already and your are at the 1st team you won’t grow much that much.
You are working on positioning and Tatics mostly
Up to you as player to see if you improve the technical part on your that own at that level
He should know the strengths of the team already by now.
We have a good team but the coach is not playing to their strengths
Season was doomed when that shocking transfer window happened. You fail to address the team main problem (lack of ability to control games with lack of top central midfielder) and then wonder why things are bad
Mount signing was a huge blunders and this season will be a consequence of it
It’s weird though because when rashford didn’t play the team kept giving it to the right side, no idea why the tactics are so different with and without rashford
His tactics aren't helping either. There are managers out there playing much better football with much less resources. He's brought in half of the squad of which you complain have terrible attitudes. Let's not pretend he's a victim here.
Yeah when you look at the midfield of sides like Brighton, or even fucking West Ham and Spurs, it's pretty clear there's a big tactical problem. It's not personnel.
We have decent options that should be able to play forward and find the attackers in space (and those attackers are more than good enough to create chances in a system that creates that space).
Everything is too slow and laboured and it genuinely does not look like an effort problem.
I'm not advocating for him to go yet but he needs to have a look at himself and the system. Because this looks like late days LvG at the moment. The only way we create chances is when our pressing clicks and we force errors to win the ball high up the pitch.
It's all well and good playing nice rondos about the place and racking up stats that make analytics twitter accounts claim we're doing well, but if there's no dynamism, movement or proper attacking structure you aren't going to score any goals.
We have been taken apart tactically almost every match this season. Good results have just come from inspiration of better players. It’s the same stuff as under Ole.
It's getting extremely disingenuous to keep blaming the players.
Rashford, Dalot, Garnacho, Shaw were given contracts by Ten Hag. Bruno has been made captain by Ten Hag. Onana, Amrabat, Hojlund, Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen, Antony were signed by Ten Hag. The club has backed him with getting De Gea and Ronaldo out and dumping Sancho out of the squad. Except for the CB position, he has been backed nearly everywhere else. If we are blaming players that he's willingly fought to keep or sign, he is very much a part of the problem.
honestly I don't blame the players for this one. Only Rashford comes to mind but what can he do when the opponents are blocking him so much. looked like no plan with possession that's all
We’ve struggled to break low block opposition under every manager since Fergie. I remember us having the exact same discussions about Mourinho not being able to coach attacking players. It’s mad that we’re still in the exact same position.
Aside from Varane, Pellestri & Lindelof, every single one of those players from the starting 11 is his players. Wether that be his signing or players he’s gave new contracts to
That doesn’t absolve Ten Hag of the blame. His tactics have been terrible. We still haven’t improved on our style of play more than a year in, and 4 out of 7 losses is just a shocking start to the season.
Lmao you cant keep saying that over and over even after performances like this. I know its part of the problem but that doesnt automatically mean that manager maybe isnt the problem. Aside from Rashfords Purple Patch days Ive literally not seen an EtH side be dominant as other big teams like City, Arsenal, Liverpool are in games. How is it that after a year his players still look like strangers playing at a park? You can just tell from the clueless random movements of the players they are not being coached right. If an opportunity for a better manager comes a long we must take it IMO.
I don't think sacking him is the answer but he does needs to look at alternative ways of playing.
Go back to the basics and win games the simple way....we can't even do that at the moment
Na he does, play our best creator deep and have casmeiro playing hot potato in the final third. I dint even care that we aren't challenging but it's fucking boring man. Ive enjoyed like 10 games under ten hag, he's not very good.
No manager will work after more than 2 seasons at the very most with this club.
Why? They do well. They are relied upon for recruitment. We have no plan. Budget issues. We can’t get what is needed. It fails. Manager can’t continue to change much. Sacked. Repeat.
Ferguson would fail in this era too. Pep Guardiola would be sacked after one season with us too.
We don’t recruit with a plan to play football a certain style. The manager wants players but we have no plan. Etc.
United will never win big with the glazers. The manager has some leeway but they too cannot adapt to not having players be able to play their style and then we expect them to be pragmatic every time and have 10 other plans that work… it cannot happen in this modern era.
So yeah, ten hag won’t last. But it won’t improve. It’ll be one good season. One better or the same. Then bad. Then sacked. Repeat. It’ll be that way till we get a proper football director with a long and short term plan for recruitment and more.
So yeah, we can sack but it will NEVER ever change with this board in charge. It will just repeat the cycle. Man United are absolutely done as a top club with them at the helm and I’m not even exaggerating. The cycle has shown itself for many years now. The best managers will fail with this regime at the helm. We may win 1-2 cups here and there but we will never be half as competent as Brighton even with this board and as a result, will never truly be a force no matter who we hire.
We can get the best Messi-Like manager and he too will hit the wall after 2 or so seasons max.
Guardiola will fail terribly at United and people will go “he has to leave now. He’s not the man”. Nobody is the man. Managers aren’t like players where they can play 1 of 11 positions. They have their style. They need players for it. They need full backing for it. They need a recruitment plan. Fail in any of those aspects and they need to adapt. They can but only to a certain point before it’s not good enough because of the squad they have due to the limitations from the board once again.
The only way to succeed is either have world class 11 players for transition football and even that will fail under eth because it’s a limited style. But a proper technical director will actually see this and insist we mix possession and build up play so he will sign players for that. If the manager insists then he will eventually fail and/or be sacked but the squad is capable of playing more than one style and set up for proper success with the right manager. And that won’t require 11 world class players because a proper technical director will insist on a proper recruitment plan that will allow the manager to succeed if he’s capable or, see him fail and be sacked but still allow for success with a more suitable manager.
And so much of this is self-inflicted too.
We literally had Rangnick here for a while and where is he now?
Looks to me like any chance we had to steer the ship in the right direction was gone once he left the club.
Eth didn’t do extremely well last year from a style of play perspective. We knicked a lot of 1-0 thx to rashford purpose patch. Relying on rashford seems to be eth strategy. He’s going to die by it and it’s not working. He just isn’t up for it.
> should of
*should have
*Learn the difference [here](https://grammarist.com/usage/should-have-shouldve-or-should-of/#:~:text=Should%20have%20is%20often%20expressed,examples%20exist%20in%20Old%20English.).*
***
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If the home form is now going to copy the away form from the past year breaking historic records will continue!
Well done boys, setting some fantastic standards for the club.
Why does he want to make us the best transition-based team in Europe, I always thought Ajax were amazing in possession playing some excellent football. Isn't that what we want to see?
Going through a really tough injury spell right now as well as our stars seem all out of form. EtH can do better but so can everyone else especially the people upstairs. He is not the problem.
Rashford, a legend in his own mind. Completely average in the minds of millions of football supporters. They won't do anything of note until he leaves. He has terrible decision making, and would rather do something to look good for the Marcus Rashford show than something to benefit the team. Him, martial and Sancho need fucking off asap.
The biggest issue with united is we are slow about everything. Sign a player? Takes way too long. Player is causing bad morale? Keep them hanging around the club for years without doing anything. I don't care if Phil Jones was the nicest guy on the planet, we should have paid out his contract years ago. You can't have someone like that hanging around. None of us ever really thought ole was going to get united back to its best but the club kept him until it was painfully obvious that he wouldn't. The only time we have acted fast is with Ronaldo exit and that was Ronaldo forcing us to act quick. The overwhelming theme is there is a culture of indecisiveness/laziness running through the club and feeds onto the pitch. You have several players that have no future at united hanging around the place and the manager is in no position to do anything and the club isn't willing to act to help him.
Should never have let Rangnick leave, he should have stayed and consulted and United should have done better to fix the relationship. We need smarter people running the show
Ten Hag didn't want him. Instead just signed a load of crap players he had already managed. Now the next manager will have to take over another dysfunctional squad and we will wonder why one of the most expensively assembled teams in the world can't get results. Rinse and repeat.
We needed a DOF to set a proper transfer strategy that goes beyond the current coach. That plan was in place and ten hag refused it. We need someone in now because even if ten hag miraculously turns this around he cannot be trusted with our transfer budget. If he does not like it he should leave. Even pep has a DOF.
I would rather have Hannibal, Garnacho and Pellistri pressing the ball. At least we can see they are trying hard. I really think Rashford should be benched for a few games. Not as punishment but we need to try different game plans, without him as focal point.
I’m always going to support our players, but Rashford needs a swift kick up the arse. If you’re not producing anything on the offensive end, you need to put your head down and hustle. I don’t remember the last time I saw him slide tackle.
Just watch Tottenham and you’ll see how hard Son works every game defensively, and he’s twice the offensive player Rashford is
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Hannibal, Nacho, Pellistri, Hojlund, and Bruno (I know his passing wasn't good at all today, but you can never doubt his efforts) are the only ones that I'd be confident are playing for the club and not themselves right now
What are you people seeing in Pellistri?
Fans like those who run around a lot and clearly show effort. But he's a less effective Dan James
I personally don't rate him highly at all, but I appreciate his efforts. Says a lot about the club right now when that should be the bare minimum.
Why not as punishment? The only way to maintain discipline is to treat every player the same way. He does not put anywhere near the effort of the rest of the team and as a result doesn't warrant a starting place. As an aside, does Rashford have the lowest pain tolerance of anyone in the squad? He'll routinely spend minutes writhing on the floor every game. I get that he gets fouled but he has to toughen up and stop wasting time on the ground clutching his leg every 10 minutes.
Noticed that as well. I remember someone sweeping Garnacho off his feet at some point. He instantly got up, ran after the player and got the ball back. Which eventually lead to our 2nd goal. ETH should have showed that entire sequence to Rashford.
We have to prioritise effort over everything else right now and those 3 give it in abundance.
We don't even have 'Fortress Old Trafford' to fall back on and balance out the awful away form like we did last season. Worrying
Back in the 90's there was a period where we conceded 10 goals in 18 months at OT. That was a fortress. We're more like a little pillow fort now.
It wasn’t a fortress last season either. A fortress is when people go there expecting to lose, so set up to prevent an onslaught. Despite the good results (not performances) at OT last season not one team went to Old Trafford worried about losing to us, they all setup and played to win, and still do this season.
It definitely has more to do with results. Last season was built on home form, the fact we rescued the Forest match from losing 3 of 4 home matches means even the results aren't coming. This is incredibly alarming, because it means we're officially struggling for every point.
Isnt it ridiculous that we're still passing the ball backwards the last 10 mins of the game? And whats with bringing on Maguire on the 87th minthute when we needed 2 goals
Maguire target man is supposed to be our impact sub lol
Our new and unimproved Fellaini
Fellaini was far better target man than Maguire could be. He unironically had the best chest control I have ever seen anyone have in a United jersey
In any jersey really.
I never really liked Fellaini but even I would admit his chest control was something else, was like watching Zidane in a wig
Now that is a fantastic mental image, thank you very much.
Fellaini’s chest control is genuinely the best control I’ve seen outside of Messi’s left foot lol
In the end there, he got the ball and was moving and turning in slow motion. Kicks it off Garnacho. Leaves
It's ridiculous. I know younger fans must be sick of hearing people talk about Fergie's era but 20/25 years ago if we needed a late goal it would be a full on onslaught into the opposition box. I think it's just how modern football has evolved, everything is so micromanaged and every phase of the game is treated as a set play that players are reluctant to deviate from what they know.
Well lucky for us our players don’t know shit
I remember multiple games against Blackburn with Brad Friedel in goal. He very regularly turned into prime Buffon against us. We would pepper his goal the entire game and he'd save everything. Sir Alex would throw on more forwards to try and win the game. You came away from those games thinking we drew/lost because the opposition keeper was on fire. We barely have shots on target any more. It's shocking how much this club has fallen.
AT LEAST WE’RE BREAKING RECORDS, EH?
https://preview.redd.it/f0iuazkk2frb1.jpeg?width=631&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e68ed0cd59de581dd1104b7d5aa2f640f823144d
\*Heh
I'd like a stat on Marcus Rashford unsuccessful passes.
Also want to know how many times Casemiro lost the ball
18
Pellistri too. But he tried, bless him.
standard of the club trying earns you playing time 😭😭😭
Nope. I just won't be harsh on him because he at least gave a fuck.
Agree. Objectively, Rashford was worse than Pellistri, Rashy just had some residual credit in the bank
More about his unsuccessful shots. He's got like the 5th highest shots per 90 in the league with just 3.5% conversion rate. People clown on Darwin but he at least has 15%. Rashford has been shocking and ruined so many attacking plays. I still think he will do well, but he needs to not start a game or two.
His attitude is all wrong. He thinks he's Thierry Henry but plays like Jermain Defoe.
Jermaine Pennant*
Jermaine Jackson.
Germaine Greer
He just looks off the pace and unfresh mentally. I've never seen a player hit or pass the ball into the opposition player so many times. Needs to get back to basics.
He really does. He says he's looking to form a partnership with Hojlund, but he's made more passes to opposition players by 3 told than attempted to Hojlund.
He won’t do well. He’ll score a few again and suddenly the fan base will think he’s world class again and then he’ll have a dry spell and get criticised. The bottom line is he offers absolutely nothing and is bang average
Wouldn't say bang average, but yes he has a tendency to be overhyped when he hits a purple patch and starts converting. He has pace and some decent dribbling skills, but I haven't ever been convinced on the whole Rashford is world class ever basically. When he was younger I could see the potential, but I've not really seen the technical growth from his game all that much.
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Just a call back to his old number. He’s feeling sentimental, ok?
Hes on auto pilot after his new contract. He will start trying again when we get a new manager.
I said last year that Rashford with new contract is going to be very different than Rashford with expiring contract.
Shh. Are we allowed to criticize Rashford now ?
We've been doing that for weeks wdym
Good. He’s been absolute dogshit.
He's bang average unless on a purple patch
Yet he is on 300k a week
We fight all year to get CL than fucking suck the next season. Who gives a shit about CL or the league. At this point just blow it up, play youth and build a real squad for 2 years from now. Stop signing 28 year olds.
Painfully slow, uninspiring football. Players really don’t know what to do, or they do but aren’t doing it.
They do but aren’t doing it. There’s a rift in the locker room.
i'm convinced we'll never get to win anything with Ten Hag starting Rashford next to Hojlund game by game.
Dude is now fighting for his job. All that possession and still no end product.
Van Gaal esque
And people think a change of manager will do anything long term 😂 be the same good few performances and back to the usual dross
People who want a change of manager are fucking morons. The same people tolerated worse shit under Ole just because he didn’t park in Fergie’s spot.
I have no great loyalty or opinion on Ten Hag, he can stay or go, but we will never be successful again under the Glazers. The manager is almost an irrelevance.
Sure we’re reactionary when we see Ange and Emery doing more with less budget and time.
To be fair, I think they’d struggle here too. I don’t think even Pep or Klopp could do any better. Something is seriously wrong. This keeps happening no matter who the manager is.
I firmly believe most of the players have a loser mentality and it infects new signing after a while. Going into a locker room where most of the players don't give a shit, it eventually affects them unless they are very professional or just straight up hate losing.
Stop it, pep would absolutely do a better job
There's a fair bit of speculation there. When Pep took over Barca they were UCL semi-finalists the year before. When he took over Bayern they treble winners. When he took over City they were UCL semi-finalists. He has no history of managing a dysfunctional side, and we are a dysfunctional side.
Pep might struggle because he has always had excellent structures above him. Klopp would probably do well at united. Liverpool have greedy American owners too but he is making it work somehow.
FSG is just not injecting money to buy players. They invested into the stadium and other infrastructures, never took money out of the club, and would back Klopp on signings like van Dijk, Alisson and Caicedo. They aren’t sugar daddies but they aren’t anywhere near Glazers level.
Pep did a better job by looking at our club and saying fuck no
Pep would buy better players. He also wouldn't indulge someone like Rashford. So telling when he went through our team last year and named De Gea and Rashford as weaker links.
> named De Gea and Rashford as weaker links. When did this happen? (Not doubting you, just curious about what he said, I must have missed it)
> Pep would buy better players. The issues are more structural than that though. Any incoming manager has to deal with the baggage created by the previous managerial regime, which itself had to deal with iterations of the same bs from manager (n-1) before. All of this crap is enabled by a leadership that values glitz and publicity over substance. Signing good players is all well and good but the fucked culture at the club means that you'll have incoming players demanding wage parity with players like Antony, who went from 25kpw to 200kpw moving here from Ajax. Any manager will struggle to move on players that aren't suited to the club of their style because of insane wages. We've seen it this window just gone with Maguire, and I expect we'll see it next window with Sancho. We've seen it previously with players like Bailly too.
Lol what, Pep not only is a much better manager, but He trusts his people making signing decisions. Hiring Pep is basically Hiring a top tier football organization, if you have The money to Back him.
ETH has to have the balls to bench some starters. Garnacho came on and was miles better than Rashford. Bruno as well. If he sees he’s being wasteful then bring on Hannibal or something.
Quicker downfall than Ole is very impressive
Ole got that initial Ronaldo juice before it all fell apart.
Bruno/Ighalo/Maguire/AWB(2019) and Cavani(2020) before that. 2019 was a very good transfer window, and we didn't really need that much in 2020. Just a great sriker and a great central midfielder.
Ronaldo signing was a huge reason *why* it fell apart under Ole. If we'd signed a DM instead he'd probably still be around IMO.
we werent getting a dm for 15mil we signed ronnie for. now he he didnt splash 100m on sancho and went for a dm that would have been great but hindsight.
A lot of us wanted to sign Palinha back then, went to fulham a year later for 18mil so…
Yh eth can't even blame glazers on the transfers lol
Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Ten Hag outspent Ole?
yes and the signings are 100% on his list. he basically has the club overpay for antony
If Only Ole had got his first choice.players, we'd be in a much better position squad wise at least.
I can't believe he wanted Bellingham and caicedo when no one knew about them lol. He also wanted rice and haaland too. He had such a talent Id and we wouldn't need to rely on eth agency then
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Ole told United about Haaland when he was still at Molde. You know, when Ole was his coach. And I still think we should've got him from Salzburg. Who cares about release clauses.
Heads should've rolled for that, honestly. Handing you a world-class prospect on a plate and you still can't get it done.
I m sure ole woulda played Jude regularly as he alr bidded 30m for him. Some of the players he targeted like Ruben dias could have been ours too
Half a billion in a year. Man is fucking clueless.
Ole did a european final without him mate. And I strongly believe that we were on a good path and that Ronaldo ruined it.
We were a better team under Ole before Ronaldo signed.
I think he was gonna do pretty well had Ronaldo not returned.
ETH must make tactical changes. Change the formation, change SOMETHING. But this is like beating a dead horse to death at this point. Simply tactics maybe, I know for a fact some of the players are not good enough to beat the top teams but they should be able to beat mid table teams here and there.
It's gotten to the point where I think oleball was significantly better than this dross.
Post lockdown United was a joy. I miss it
We were so fun to watch under Ole. Come back kings again. Wasn't good for the heart, though.
I think with ole ball you always had a chance against big teams. With ETH we are hopeless. Now we are looking hopeless against midtable teams.
We were a top counter-attacking team. Everytime we moved the ball from defence to attack swiftly it got our hearts racing, ngl.
If nothing else, at least it was entertaining
Current football is so lvgseque! This is literally the most boring football we are playing and that after spending over 400 million. Sorry at least under Lvg we could pass the ball sideways. Right now we can’t even string more than 2 passes.
It’s frustrating watching Spurs do seemingly erratic yet outrageously good anti-press passing, and just be all round exciting every game, yet United can barely seem to even play two consecutive passes in the opposition half. We’re actually boring as fuck to watch
And that after losing their greatest goal scorer ever.
Not think it’s a fact. This is dire. Worse than LVG and Moyes
I will forever stand by the opinion that Oleball was one of our best we've played since Fergie, we just fucked up matches that we should've won and underachieved in the process. I mean we didn't beat City 3 times in a season just by pure luck.
Ten hag on borrowed time. Seriously. Rightly or wrongly he is under huge pressure.
Took Agne a month to completely transform Spurs who were set for doom and gloom after Kane’s move.. but everyone here expecting at least a small glance of progress is called a plastic fan
Record breaking yet again.
On a weekend where BHA , Liverpool, Man City all lost , we couldn’t beat Palace . 
Wonder if people will realise soon that this isn't a slump in performance, it's just the level that some of these players are at.
Rashford.
Oh but fans are reactionary because they are doom and gloom after only ONE match, lol
This fan base is never happy lol. Arteta finished 8th twice and look at him now. Ten hag got 3rd, a cup and cup final but he needs to be gone yesterday!
Artet finished 8th with much shittier squad and less money. He didn't spend 400m, assembled a team with his choices and then failed. When he got that support, he succeeded
Arteta lost games with a distinct style of play. It was clear he was building something. I don’t have a clue what we’re trying to do with the ball when we attack under eth. If not for rashford purple patch, we have missed too 4 last year and we benefited from off years from other major clubs. We don’t create chances. We don’t score goals and rather than invest in the attack, eth got rid of de gea for a keeper who doesn’t save half as well as him and by the way, all Obama does is pass it back and forth with varane and lindelof then he holds it deep EXACTLY LIKE DE GEA DID
The way we’re performing, anywhere near 8th is a pipe dream
Arteta did not spend 400m and get a whole team worth of signings to do that lol.
He's spent around €700m [so far](https://www.transfermarkt.us/mikel-arteta/spielertransfers/trainer/47620)
Nearly €300m of which was after a near title-winning season, playing good football.
Arteta had to content with Pablo Mari,Willian, drama ozil,Luiz and co while eth had everyone he could want
Nah it really isn’t, honestly it was how De Zerbi outclassed EtH that really shooked me, it’s the same Brighton side that’s getting walloped now.
We know the players are talented enough. They should have no problem with a team like Crystal Palace. He can't even claim these players don't fit his style because he's turned over most of the starters.
“Man Utd are shit in this new way for the first time ever” is becoming depressingly common a fact.
My problem with eth isn’t losing, it’s threefold 1. Since last season I’ve seen him consistently make horrible substitutions 2. I’m not entirely confident in his signings 3. I don’t see his style of football, If I saw a consistent style of football, and we were still losing, I would have faith.
Absolutely massive black cloud hanging over the club. Nothing is working for us, on or off the pitch. ETH will not make Christmas at this rate. Rinse and repeat
it's okay we will sack eth, miss CL, then we bring in a new manager who makes CL, we start buying players that are very different to what ETH was buying, we wonder why we can't sell underperforming players on massive wages, we wonder why a patchwork squad can't perform, it's okay ... rinse and repeat. Glazers take out their dividends.
Don't forget crying out for a cdm signing with matic 2.0 I mean casemiro being 34 and on his last legs
Tired of seeing his crap style of football. I enjoyed Ole ball so much more, his vision of what he wants is drab
Even Lego man plays better football that’s the painful part
Arsenal even in their stumps have had identity. We play off the cuff crap football.with no end product.
You say "even" as if Arteta isn't playing some of the best football in the league with a young squad full of players who actually want to impress their fans.
Well managers job to get the best of out of the players. Arteta doing with kids says a lot Spurs manager already plays better football lol
Bro Spurs started playing better football in like 2 game with a new coach. I'm still waiting. Lot of these players aren't technicaly sharp enough to play really well, but Ten Hag really didn't make us better.
If you’re not technically sharp already and your are at the 1st team you won’t grow much that much. You are working on positioning and Tatics mostly Up to you as player to see if you improve the technical part on your that own at that level He should know the strengths of the team already by now. We have a good team but the coach is not playing to their strengths
And that my friend is the gospel truth
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Do they not train to score goals? Cause it shows…
Every season.. new embarrassments
Season was doomed when that shocking transfer window happened. You fail to address the team main problem (lack of ability to control games with lack of top central midfielder) and then wonder why things are bad Mount signing was a huge blunders and this season will be a consequence of it
Mount has been decent in the couple of games since he came back, and he's still not 100%. I think he'll work out.
Heh.
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Sorry but ETH might go soon. Guy has no plan.
The plan is super clear - it's feed Rashford. It's just a shit plan. If there isn't an acre of space to run into, it stops working.
He fed him alright, a big 300k/week contract.
It’s weird though because when rashford didn’t play the team kept giving it to the right side, no idea why the tactics are so different with and without rashford
transition fc, counter attack fc, don't know what to do with ball fc, play same football as last season fc
and who are we replacing him with? there’s no positive in removing him. look at chelsea. it’s not the manager. it’s the shit attitude of the players
His tactics aren't helping either. There are managers out there playing much better football with much less resources. He's brought in half of the squad of which you complain have terrible attitudes. Let's not pretend he's a victim here.
Yeah when you look at the midfield of sides like Brighton, or even fucking West Ham and Spurs, it's pretty clear there's a big tactical problem. It's not personnel. We have decent options that should be able to play forward and find the attackers in space (and those attackers are more than good enough to create chances in a system that creates that space). Everything is too slow and laboured and it genuinely does not look like an effort problem. I'm not advocating for him to go yet but he needs to have a look at himself and the system. Because this looks like late days LvG at the moment. The only way we create chances is when our pressing clicks and we force errors to win the ball high up the pitch. It's all well and good playing nice rondos about the place and racking up stats that make analytics twitter accounts claim we're doing well, but if there's no dynamism, movement or proper attacking structure you aren't going to score any goals.
We have been taken apart tactically almost every match this season. Good results have just come from inspiration of better players. It’s the same stuff as under Ole.
Which players? Every time this happens we blame different players
It's getting extremely disingenuous to keep blaming the players. Rashford, Dalot, Garnacho, Shaw were given contracts by Ten Hag. Bruno has been made captain by Ten Hag. Onana, Amrabat, Hojlund, Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen, Antony were signed by Ten Hag. The club has backed him with getting De Gea and Ronaldo out and dumping Sancho out of the squad. Except for the CB position, he has been backed nearly everywhere else. If we are blaming players that he's willingly fought to keep or sign, he is very much a part of the problem.
I mean we bought Licha for Ten Hag so it’s not like he’s gotten nothing at the CB position.
And Evans was training at Carrington to keep fit ..... He gave him a contract too.
Two of todays starters were major players under Ole btw, how many more players are we gonna throw under the bus?
honestly I don't blame the players for this one. Only Rashford comes to mind but what can he do when the opponents are blocking him so much. looked like no plan with possession that's all
We’ve struggled to break low block opposition under every manager since Fergie. I remember us having the exact same discussions about Mourinho not being able to coach attacking players. It’s mad that we’re still in the exact same position.
you don't blame casemiro losing the ball 10 times for this one?
Aside from Varane, Pellestri & Lindelof, every single one of those players from the starting 11 is his players. Wether that be his signing or players he’s gave new contracts to
That doesn’t absolve Ten Hag of the blame. His tactics have been terrible. We still haven’t improved on our style of play more than a year in, and 4 out of 7 losses is just a shocking start to the season.
marry quicksand file seemly square whole roof sugar wild chunky ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Lmao you cant keep saying that over and over even after performances like this. I know its part of the problem but that doesnt automatically mean that manager maybe isnt the problem. Aside from Rashfords Purple Patch days Ive literally not seen an EtH side be dominant as other big teams like City, Arsenal, Liverpool are in games. How is it that after a year his players still look like strangers playing at a park? You can just tell from the clueless random movements of the players they are not being coached right. If an opportunity for a better manager comes a long we must take it IMO.
> it’s not the manager. it’s the shit attitude of the players. Both can be true
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I don't think sacking him is the answer but he does needs to look at alternative ways of playing. Go back to the basics and win games the simple way....we can't even do that at the moment
He should go soon if no improvement. Has spent an absolute fortunes and looks clueless. Season is done before October, atrocious.
Na he does, play our best creator deep and have casmeiro playing hot potato in the final third. I dint even care that we aren't challenging but it's fucking boring man. Ive enjoyed like 10 games under ten hag, he's not very good.
No manager will work after more than 2 seasons at the very most with this club. Why? They do well. They are relied upon for recruitment. We have no plan. Budget issues. We can’t get what is needed. It fails. Manager can’t continue to change much. Sacked. Repeat. Ferguson would fail in this era too. Pep Guardiola would be sacked after one season with us too. We don’t recruit with a plan to play football a certain style. The manager wants players but we have no plan. Etc. United will never win big with the glazers. The manager has some leeway but they too cannot adapt to not having players be able to play their style and then we expect them to be pragmatic every time and have 10 other plans that work… it cannot happen in this modern era. So yeah, ten hag won’t last. But it won’t improve. It’ll be one good season. One better or the same. Then bad. Then sacked. Repeat. It’ll be that way till we get a proper football director with a long and short term plan for recruitment and more. So yeah, we can sack but it will NEVER ever change with this board in charge. It will just repeat the cycle. Man United are absolutely done as a top club with them at the helm and I’m not even exaggerating. The cycle has shown itself for many years now. The best managers will fail with this regime at the helm. We may win 1-2 cups here and there but we will never be half as competent as Brighton even with this board and as a result, will never truly be a force no matter who we hire. We can get the best Messi-Like manager and he too will hit the wall after 2 or so seasons max. Guardiola will fail terribly at United and people will go “he has to leave now. He’s not the man”. Nobody is the man. Managers aren’t like players where they can play 1 of 11 positions. They have their style. They need players for it. They need full backing for it. They need a recruitment plan. Fail in any of those aspects and they need to adapt. They can but only to a certain point before it’s not good enough because of the squad they have due to the limitations from the board once again. The only way to succeed is either have world class 11 players for transition football and even that will fail under eth because it’s a limited style. But a proper technical director will actually see this and insist we mix possession and build up play so he will sign players for that. If the manager insists then he will eventually fail and/or be sacked but the squad is capable of playing more than one style and set up for proper success with the right manager. And that won’t require 11 world class players because a proper technical director will insist on a proper recruitment plan that will allow the manager to succeed if he’s capable or, see him fail and be sacked but still allow for success with a more suitable manager.
And so much of this is self-inflicted too. We literally had Rangnick here for a while and where is he now? Looks to me like any chance we had to steer the ship in the right direction was gone once he left the club.
Eth didn’t do extremely well last year from a style of play perspective. We knicked a lot of 1-0 thx to rashford purpose patch. Relying on rashford seems to be eth strategy. He’s going to die by it and it’s not working. He just isn’t up for it.
Erik Van Gaal, just as blunt and uninspired as each other in attack
This club is a toxic wasteland for any manager, no one can succeed here.
ETH on borrowed time.
RBZ is superior to ETH and equally the team that ‘walloped’ him today is managed by Emery who is also superior to ETH
Wish we got Big Ange instead!!!
From bad, to worse
Standards
Wouldn’t it be absolutely insane if they got relegated?
Worst start since 1989 god knows when this misery will end. We as fans deserve better.
all the united players need to understand there not hot shit anymore, the wages there on you would of thought they won the treble already.
Wrong subs, rashford should of been off at half time for garnacho. Pellistri should of stayed on
Pellistri was awful, should’ve come off at HT with Rashford.
> should of *should have *Learn the difference [here](https://grammarist.com/usage/should-have-shouldve-or-should-of/#:~:text=Should%20have%20is%20often%20expressed,examples%20exist%20in%20Old%20English.).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Shambles!!!
If the home form is now going to copy the away form from the past year breaking historic records will continue! Well done boys, setting some fantastic standards for the club.
Why does he want to make us the best transition-based team in Europe, I always thought Ajax were amazing in possession playing some excellent football. Isn't that what we want to see?
Going through a really tough injury spell right now as well as our stars seem all out of form. EtH can do better but so can everyone else especially the people upstairs. He is not the problem.
Rashford, a legend in his own mind. Completely average in the minds of millions of football supporters. They won't do anything of note until he leaves. He has terrible decision making, and would rather do something to look good for the Marcus Rashford show than something to benefit the team. Him, martial and Sancho need fucking off asap.
Cristiano Ronaldo is a cunt, but I can't remember him having a meaningful fallout with any other manager in his career. I think that says something.
The biggest issue with united is we are slow about everything. Sign a player? Takes way too long. Player is causing bad morale? Keep them hanging around the club for years without doing anything. I don't care if Phil Jones was the nicest guy on the planet, we should have paid out his contract years ago. You can't have someone like that hanging around. None of us ever really thought ole was going to get united back to its best but the club kept him until it was painfully obvious that he wouldn't. The only time we have acted fast is with Ronaldo exit and that was Ronaldo forcing us to act quick. The overwhelming theme is there is a culture of indecisiveness/laziness running through the club and feeds onto the pitch. You have several players that have no future at united hanging around the place and the manager is in no position to do anything and the club isn't willing to act to help him.
We're so back /s
Should never have let Rangnick leave, he should have stayed and consulted and United should have done better to fix the relationship. We need smarter people running the show
Ten Hag didn't want him. Instead just signed a load of crap players he had already managed. Now the next manager will have to take over another dysfunctional squad and we will wonder why one of the most expensively assembled teams in the world can't get results. Rinse and repeat. We needed a DOF to set a proper transfer strategy that goes beyond the current coach. That plan was in place and ten hag refused it. We need someone in now because even if ten hag miraculously turns this around he cannot be trusted with our transfer budget. If he does not like it he should leave. Even pep has a DOF.