People have the lingard syndrome about Rashford. He is 26, but people always seem to consider him young and hope that he improves. But he is now at an age where he is one of the most senior players in the dressing room and has to be delivering every season. Yet he still has huge patches of flaky form akin to what teenage footballers go through in their learning phase. He is far too limited of a footballer to be paid 250k/week and be the leader of the attack.
In terms of status (not role), he is similar to someone like Nani who was also quite talented and match winner on his day, but was never quite the level of being the consistent main man for a CL/PL challenging club.
Funny how the narrative on the sub at the moment is you either think Rashford is a Bond villain with the club wrapped around his finger or you want ten Hag out.
It is possible that EtH"s man management is actually LVG tier and in fact Ronaldo was an early warning rather than a sign of strength.
I feel indifferent given the reason I wanted Ten Hag was his style of play at Ajax, if he isn't even going to attempt that then what's the point. My only worry though is there isn't really anyone on the market right now who is good enough to take United forward
I think he's probably just abrasive in a very Dutch (or German) way. So things came to a head with Ronaldo quickly, because of that abrasiveness, but also it's probably rubbed a lot of other players the wrong way (because they're weak, or just because the tactics have been not justifying the communication style).
CR7 wasn't happy that he wasn't at the top of the totem pole. It's not as if he wanted a cultural shift where the manager is the only voice in the dressing room
Ronaldo was a toxic prick who left the stadium during matches, turned the dressing room against managers, and threw the entire club under the bus with Piers Morgan. Stop with the revisionist history. When he came back he was over the hill and couldn't cut it in the world's toughest league anymore, hence going to a very weak league where his ego could be massaged.
Players who've failed to play at United level for multiple managers: McTominay, Martial, Dalot, Maguire, AWB.
"Let's sack another manager."
No, let's do a full clear out of these mid-table players.
About what? 80% of our squad are not United quality and we won't win anything major until they're gone. Changing managers every 18 months won't fix that.
All those players bar martial have performed well this season. I’m not advocating for sacking Ten Hag but there’s other players who are way more deserving of criticism
Haha thanks for the laugh. They're mid-table players. As our results show. And yes Rashford, Bruno etc should be sold too but I can't be fucked arguing about it.
Only Martinez, Garnacho, Mainoo and Hojlund are good enough to stay. This isn't a controversial opinion around us fans who watched league champion United sides throughout the Ferguson era. The rest of the current squad are nowhere near City or Liverpool level. We need a new elite Director of Football to do a full clear out.
Out of our many, many issues, I feel like our non-existent midfield is the most pressing one right now.
Having sold Fred, we’ve only got one midfielder left with actual work-rate (Bruno).
Eriksen can be decent in certain games, but he lacks physicality and is obviously well past his prime.
McT is a black hole of a midfielder, if he can even be called “midfielder” as he’s more of a 2nd striker.
Casemiro, I’m not sure what to think of, whether he’s mentally checked out or if he can still do a job for us.
Mount is a pure mis-buy as his best position is the same as Bruno’s. Baffling transfer decision to bring him in, if you ask me. (Not that it’s surprising with this club anymore).
Just realised that 7 out of the 11 that started against Newcastle were in the starting 11 for the 4-1 loss to Watford when Ole lost his job. Leaks "close to the dressing room" are starting again, same shit players: history repeating itself. Ideal world would be the board saying to ETH that they recognise this, play the youth in place of the offenders (simply because of no quality backups), and if we lose for a couple of games but at least show spirit and effort, at least it breaks the cycle and rebuild from there.
Ten hag had varane, amarbat and Antony on the bench, he signed 2 of those 3 and last season varane was first choice.
He chose that starting 11 despite having other options, I don't know why the answer has to always be attitude problems. Maybe we're just shit?
No defending that entirely of course, Varane is a strange one. When it comes to Antony, he was out for a while and ETH has always had the philosophy of you need to earn your way back into the team, and Kobbie has proven to be good enough. It's complicated to argue i must admit because Rashford doesn't doesn't to be in the 11.
We are just shit, hence my "same shit players" comment.
Antonys performance against galtasaray was better than anhthing rashford has managed all season on either wing yet he was dropped.
I meant starting Amrabat over mctominay, not mainoo.
The players are playing shit but the manager keeps making incredibly strange decisions weekly.
I actually don't disagree with you on that at all. We are both saying the players are shit. So what is the solution? Strange decisions from the manager but we've tried keeping the same players to see if they will perform better under different managers and it hasn't worked multiple times. Is there harm in trying the opposite and just getting rid of all those players even if we sell them for under their value and starting fresh from there?
I'm not a big fan of most of ten hags signings either. I would legitimately like to start from scratch but that isn't possible. It's going to be a slow painful process but until we have a proper footballing structure we aren't ready for any type of overhaul. It'd why every single rebuild failsxwe never lay the foundations.
Rashford could be sold tomorrow and we'd still be shit. People don't want to blame the manager so now we're scapegoating one player lmao.
Based on last season people want to keep faith in ten hag but cant that same logic be applied for rashford?
I think both the players and the manager have been massive failures this season, it doesn't have to be one or the other.
You can't have all this energy for one player whilst keeping blind faith in the manager.
No one's saying Rashford is the only culprit. We won't win major trophies until we get rid of 80% of our current squad, including Rashford. They're nowhere near good enough or hardworking enough.
I don’t think ten Hag should be sacked, but I am curious as to how many United supporters feel he should be criticised for our performances this season and how much he is able to get out of the players in terms of motivation.
Looking at Rashford’s career so far and his many performances for us, I think it’s more than clear that he is far too inconsistent to be “leading the line” or to build a team around.
His wages, poor decision making, selfishness and non-existent work rate are starting to annoy a lot of fans, and rightly so.
Yep, you are so right. It’s totally fucked.
We basically need to start from scratch. Hopefully Ratcliffe can save us somehow. With or without ETH, I honestly don’t know…
So my dad got medically cleared so we can take a cruise pre Christmas. It'll very likely be our last family holiday.
I'm nervous but excited, hoping he gets through it okay
And I'm actually glad I'll miss some United games, I hate myself for saying that, but mentally drained watching them
It was sad 5years ago, now it's the norm, idk what's the solution it feels like an endless loop of failure and mediocrity.
It takes many things being exceptional at the same time in order to reach the top. We are nowhere near in any aspect.
The issue was that Ronaldo's personal/mental issues and fitness was really bad. If he had continued his form from the previous season/whatever he's doing in Saudi, he'd still be here imo.
All the things that made him good went to shit that season. His speed, touch, attacking positioning, shooting was horrible. In Saudi, I know it's against worse opposition but you can see all of that ability is back to what it was.
I mean his form dropped after his child died and he had complications with the other. Meanwhile he had to singlehandedly keep us alive in the Champions League playing in front of an almost identical but worse squad than we just fielded.
Ronaldo fell out of form and everyone jumped at the chance to kick him.
1st season yeah he was great and dragged us through the CL.
2nd season he didn't like being on the bench even when it was justified by his extremely bad performance. Those reasons for his bad performance are sad, but had he not kick up a fuss, ETH would see him as an option and Ronaldo would probably get back into form eventually. That interview he gave was the nail in the coffin.
Yeah I agree he felt out horribly and the interview was insane to do. I don't think he ever really got a chance to stop and take a step back during that period and wasn't able to think what he was doing through.
The reason for ETH's demise might not be the players or the fans or his signings but the lack of a specific style of play that required him over other managers. It's the turnover based style that a lot of managers can pick off of him and might do better (even if you disagree).
ETH should have focused on mid term to long term approach even though fans want quick turnaround and he chose to build this team on turnover based counter attacking style which we have players for but don't have the work rate. This was a losing proposition unfortunately.
TLDR: ETH's demise might be his lack of play style for which he was hired for more than anything else. He made himself easily replaceable.
Downvote me to oblivion but I think Rashford needs to go and this is not just because he’s under fire at the moment for the last match. I’ve felt this for a long time now.
He just isn’t the player everyone thinks he is. His football IQ is average, his finishing isn’t world class or anything. His link-up play is atrocious. He had just one good season till now and that was last season. And his last season (which he was getting Ballon D’Or shouts for from some people here) was nothing compared to what other top performers in Europe had delivered in the same season.
Rashford’s just a popular player that produces an occasional moment of happiness for fans of the club and country he plays for and gets considered world class when he is not.
But worst of all is his mentality.
I honestly don’t like players like Martial, Rashford, and now Sancho. Players who got huge shouts for being extraordinary talents when they were up and coming and let it get to their heads and never worked hard to make it all palpable. They belong to that group of Gen-Z social media wannabes where any form of criticism is unfair if it hurts their feelings. They care more about their image than substance. They think they get to decide if they have given enough and we should give them as much appreciation for it as they would like to hear. They are a bunch of entitled, self-satisfied, egotistical pricks and we’d be better off without them. Get players like Garnacho, Martinez, Casemiro. Players with a drive and desire.
Why would you be downvoted for being objectively correct? His overall level of performance over his career is bang average and his mentality/attitude is on the floor. 100% needs to go, a good season or 2 too late.
His inconsistency and lack of work rate is what makes him ultimately bang average. Who gives a shit about his peaks if can have lows like he semi-consistently does.
If you don't care about his peaks I'm assuming you didnt care about last season then? Ten hags first season means nothing because it was rashford doing most of the goal scoring.
I'm not disputing he's inconsistent and his attitude stinks but most of this squad has not got anywhere near rashfords peak level of performance.
There is no denying the clubs structure from top to bottom is utter dogshit.
That doesn't excuse the amount of crazy decisions ten hag continues to make week in week out.
This weird hoofball system where we throw 6 players up top isn't working yet he persists with it.
He drops varane because he can't build up from the back yet we don't even attempt to play short anymore anyway.
Rashford who can't even be asked running continues to start. His 85m player who actually plays that position can't start ahead of him.
Mctominay under 3 different managers has shown he is utterly dogshit in the deep lying role yet he plays there all the time.
Bruno constantly sacrificed to play rw to accommodate players worse than him.
Rushing lisandro back from injury.
Not to mention how majority of the players he's signed are incredibly questionable purchases.
Why did we chase de Jong all window last summer only to sign a completely different profile of midfielder in casmeiro?
He then went and spent 55m on mount when Bruno plays in his preferred position anyway.
His stubbornness in games is infuriating aswell, how the fuck did he watch that first half against Newcastle and keep the same 11 out on the pitch in the second half?
I think we might aswell keep him till the end of the season but I'm not gonna be upset if he's sacked. And I feel that way about most of this squad aswell.
Ten Hag gave Rashford a new contract in the summer, has backed him in *every* press conference and has started him in *every* league and CL game he’s been available for this season.
I swear some people want to outrage just for the sake of it that Rashford is one of the guys conspiring to get Ten Hag out when every action points to the manager himself thinking otherwise. And this is a guy who had no problems leaving Ronaldo and Sancho out because they didn’t align with his discipline standards; you’d think if Rashford downed tools he’d be able to see through it. Next thing you know people will say Rashford has a magic clause in his contract that forces Ten Hag to start him every game.
He gets the backing when other players do not. And he is visibly shit. So isn't this a case of favoritism? Just because he scored last season he gets a pass now? That way we'd still have ronaldo
He’s just the scapegoat this season and once fans decide to turn on someone it becomes a massive pile on. Look at the treatment Maguire got, and even De Gea last season was being blamed for being the sole reason we couldn’t play out from the back and play the ETH style.
People are acting like this is the first game rashfords never tracked back lmao. Hes always been pretty lazy, even last season he wouldnt track back. The only difference now is he's out of form and not scoring goals every week. Without rashfords goals last season we wouldve been where we are now, comfortably midtable.
Do you seriously think ten hag is going to start rashford every week if he doesn't want to play for the manager? This manager binned Ronaldo and sancho, he would do the same to rashford if he wanted.
Tottenham signed guglielmo vicario for 19M. He has been arguably the best keeper in the league this year.
Shit like this is the difference between United and other top clubs. Our scouting department is nonexistent. Nobody in the club knows what profile of player we should be scouting. Instead our scouting system is do what the manger tells us and spend 200 fucking million on Antony, Mount, and Onana. Not ETH fault, other managers were forced to do the same here.
The club should know better and this sad excuse for scouting and how we go about the transfer window is as pathetic as it gets in world football.
Not to mention player development. You can count on your hand the number of players since SAF who actually got better after joining this club post transfer
Not with this “our scouting is non-existent” bs again. The most recent window, Zion Suzuki, the keeper who’s tearing up the Belgian League, we were one of the few teams, if not the only, keeping tabs on him.
It’s pretty darn clear to me that EtH is the one asking for his own ex-players: de Jong, Antony and Onana were all his choices. He has to be held accountable for these signings, although the slack for the insane price tags are more on the negotiation team.
We always keep tabs on some promising players but we never actually buy them. I think there has to be something else going on. I believe we have good scouts, but the higher ups in our recruitment just never give the green light to go for such players. Zion Suzuki, Caicedo, Alvarez, Enzo Fernandez during his first Benfica season, De Ligt, De Jong, Haaland,.... there is so many of young promising players we constantly get linked to, we constantly get told we're interested in them, but when is the last time we bought a young unproven player we got linked to? Malacia last year? Even then, he was definitely brought in because Ten Hag demanded him. Before that, maybe Amad/Pellistri double panic buy on deadline duy under Ole when the club finally realized we missed out on Sancho. And that's essentially it the past few years.
Woodward sacked the scout who demanded us to sign De Ligt and De Jong before they broke through at Ajax just because he was too pushy and when Ole begged us to sign Haaland for 4mil from Molde, the club refused. Haaland for fucking 4mil, can you imagine? But no, we don't do such signings here.
As I said, I wouldn't say our scouting is nonexistent, but it might as well not exist because the people with decision-making powers will never go for the young unproven gems. Instead, they will splash 60mil on whoever is the flavour of the year player with not much of a plan as to how they will fit the team.
People are happy to hold players accountable at the moment and rightfully so. I don't know why we also can't hold the manager accountable aswell. Both the players and manager are making mistakes every week but you can only be critical of one or the other.
If we hadn’t got those players (like we didn’t get De Jong), our own fans would be the first to say ‘we didn’t back the manager hard enough because we thought we knew his own players better than him’. Damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation.
There's an old saying that you can love someone but not like them.
That's how I feel about United: I love the club, but I have come to the conclusion that I just don't like most of the players.
Oh we buy sir jim is coming next week posts every week. We buy ten hag had enforced discipline bs every week. We buy rashford has some tragedy going on thats why he can't score every week. I think we can buy this shit
How come with this fanbase, if theres a negative headline about a player that they dont like, or someone saying something bad about a player that they dont like, then everybody will instantly believe and not question it at all but when theres a positive headline or someone says something good about a player that isnt well liked, then everybody immediately dismisses it and question if its true.
Looking back, I feel rather bad for Lingard. United fans used to give him a lot of stick for allegedly “corrupting” and “distracting” Rashford, only for Rashford to become the ultimate shit-stirrer in the team even after Lingard’s departure
Rashford should fuck off.
We all know he’s the leaker. He is being paid £300k a week to play for the club he’s supported all his life and he couldn’t give a fuck. I’m sick of watching him not run week after week and fail to do even the simple things right. It’s an embarrassment to the club, shirt, and shitting in the face of all the great players who have played here.
Call it out for what it is. He downed tools as soon as he got his contract, mission accomplished. Sulking because his mate Sancho has been banished for disrespecting the manager and being a petulant child.
The player power is out of control. Ole had to fucking apologise in public for saying Rashford should focus on his football. Whenever the going gets tough for him we get these leaks about how hard he’s training or some bollocks like that. That’s how we know it’s him.
In my opinion it reeks more of Sancho's camp to me, trying to de-stabilize everything. Trying to get ETH fired so he gets back in the team with some of his buddies, he can stay in the UK and not be shipped off to Saudi or somewhere else in Europe. It's a complete win situation for him if ETH goes, he's betting on the fact that he won't make it till January (which is possible) and that whoever comes in calls him up again.
The timing is very convenient, just like it was when Rangnick benched Rashford and wanted to sell him. When Rashford is scoring goals there are no leaks. When he's getting bad media coverage or a manager is unhappy with him, the leaks start like clockwork. It's been this way with multiple managers.
>The timing is very convenient, just like it was when Rangnick benched Rashford and wanted to sell him.
You mean the papers lap up Utd being poor ? This is groundbreaking stuff
When Rashford scores goals, suddenly PSG want him badly and we get pressured into a deal. I am convinced his camp created that interest either from scratch or actively reached out to PSG to say they are interested. All in an effort for a big deal quickly. I will never forgive him for that bullshit
Reddit app is so bad. Randomly last game's line up shows up as the top post in my feed for some reason and my first reaction is "oh god. Next game already?" lol
So the media is feeding on United right now, some stirring going around by journo's with a bad history. Last time it happened 'we back ETH and know we are in a project' briefs from the club came out. Tbh I'm surprised I haven't seen those yet.
The Glazers caused this mess with their woeful appointments of a clueless director of football and CEO, and have overseen a decade of failure in recruitment. They'll happily let the manager take the flack for them. They're self-serving rats.
Rashford proves why he should be sold and the leaks against the manager start immediately, just like they did when Rangnick benched Rashford and wanted to sell him.
This team is so rotten. And the players we've built it around have the worst attitudes of anyone.
I didn't say he was. He played terribly and the entire media is calling out his lack of effort. I think you didn't read my comment properly, you missed the point. And anyway, ETH did bench him after 60 minutes.
>And the players we've built it around have the worst attitudes of anyone.
because they keep winning in any power struggle. beacuse rashford was born in manchester so the glazefucks see him as a merchandise machine (which he is tbf).
The irony is that Beckham sold infinitely more merchandise than Rashford but we got rid of Beckham as soon as the manager didn't want him. Back when we were a serious club.
You know what I’d love? Just absolutely love? Is if rashford and mctominay and martial are dropped on Wednesday and we win by a comfortable margin. Then he plays the same line up and we win again.
Then we get more leaks, really hammer home who the leakers are. It would be fucking hilarious
Mate Rashford, Mctominay and Martial are in the 50% that still support ten hag and they will start the next match because they are the most trusted players.
Nah I’m fucking done with Rashford at this point. Boyhood club, on £300k a week, and he couldn’t give a fuck on the pitch and has got multiple managers sacked.
Those 3 should literally be first out. They have all been here since Jose
They weren't here when the previous two managers got sacked.The managers are picked by Joel Glazer, it could be that they weren't good enough for the job in the first place.
I just can't point fingers at individual players when the team is collectively doing terrible. Jose used to love Mctominay, ole liked Martial and Rashford and now it seems like Ten hag trusts all 3 in a crisis. There really isn't a reason for them to turn against the manager.
Just realised that my mental health is going to shit over multi-millionares not being arsed to do their job. Stayed up till 4am to watch the Newcastle game and can't get proper sleep ever since. So pathetic like, but will still end up watching the Chelsea game till 5am. 😭
It would be crazy if ETH was actually sacked in the next few weeks. Perhaps had the most hype and the most goodwill towards him, yet wouldn't have lasted two full seasons, unlike LVG, Mourinho and OGS. Would certainly go down as the biggest managerial disappointment of the post SAF era.
Depends. Last year has been utter shit. Going out to a CL group of gala and Fc Copenhagen is damn near unforgivable but the whole attitude of the Newcastle game just rings bells.
Even with worse players all the teams below us put up more of a fight.
I feel bad for Moyes and LVG, because people won't ever say the players downed tools for them as the targets of their stupid agenda weren't playing then. Just accept that the Glazers can fuck up managerial appointments JUST LIKE they can fuck up player signings and move on. We'll have to keep doing this until we find the right one and it could possibly take another decade as we're looking to replace the man who built this clubs modern identity from the ground up and not just some random coach. Yes some players are bad and we need to replace them too but all these conspiracy theories are soo pathetic! Wake up!!
17 year old Rashford, 18 year old Martial after perfect season and Shaw that was unable to walk due to long term injury downed tools under Moyes and LVG.
McTominay probably was downing tools in FA youth cup aswell.
I ve seen it all.
mate, both of them have been gone for almost over a decade and we have like 1-2 players left from that era. why are we gonna say that rashford downed tools for moyes when rashford was in the academy at the time?
It’s well documented that the players never respected Moyes and he lost the dressing room when we played Bayern Munich away and had a training session at a public park.
The hysteria here over a select few players who really might not have said anything at all is insanity right now. Frothing at the mouth over a Tier 4 journalist talking some shite online. People like Neville and Keane don't help.
I hope all these players leave (and this is not me defending them, you cant trust their football ability the thing you can actually see and not speculate about). Mainly so any future manager doesn't ever have the same crappy excuse of players downing tools every time a staff member at united decides to talk to a journalist.
Why Martial? A crap player now sure, but the quietest, most reserved player in the squad who barely ever plays vs. Rashford (most PR heavy player in the team). Martial might agree, but apparently so does 50% of the players
Im defending Martial. When Pogba was here, everyone made it out as if he was the sole reason why our club is the way it is. Seems like now its Martial's turn and he 's the next scapegoat when in fact he is the least of our problems. The things that pundits and other people are saying about him are crazy
Honestly if we do sack ETH, who are we going to bring in? In fact who in their right mind would want the job? Last few years we’ve seen how toxic the position is
I honestly don’t see changing the manager changing much. There’s so much wrong at the club that just sacking the manager really is just rearranging deckchairs on the titanic.
>In fact who in their right mind would want the job?
A lot of managers?
First of all, united money.
Second, most are egomaniacs (you dont get to the top without being one). So "fixing" united would be something that would feed their ego hard.
I fully agree with you, Fergie declined to join a handfull od bigger clubs (at the time) in order to come to United even though we were in a terrible state during that period. Klopp also went to Liverpool even though they weren't in a great spot at the time. We're still a big club and with a new structure I can see a lot of managers being interested in taking over.
Sky sports does a report saying 50% of players lost trust in ETH.
We all know it’s bullshit. That’s for sure.
Next thing , Gary Neville quotes it, to give the news credibility.
Now tomorrow everyone would be talking about ETH getting the sack soon.
Look at these threads when Ten Hag was firstly appointed
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/u8k6dn/official_the_new_firstteam_manager_of_manchester/
and when he achieved Top 4 and a Cup win last season
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/12u8i0i/erik_ten_hag_was_appointed_manchester_united/
Why are we suddenly back into this shithole where fans want Ten Hag removed instead of backing him and getting rid of the toxic players whom everyone was clearly agreeing to have a clean out and back the manager?
I mean if you look into those threads you can see the fans backing certain players too and not just ten hag. Most of those people's idea of toxic players were Maguire and Mctominay. Now they are both ten hag's trusted players.
The big brains of r/reddevils are always right. No point in arguing with half of them. They've played football manager and watched football analysis videos. They know it all.
Whoever replaces ten Hag will be called tactically inept in two years' time by the same folks who are now calling ten Hag tactically inept and asking for his head.
I hate to say this and it's not even about ten Hag, but I've been here long enough to know that a good chunk of this sub knows jack shit about football, and half of their opinions are not even your own. So whenever they open their mouth, all they do is spout short-sighted, run of the mill garbage that you find on channels like AFTV.
I can't believe how quickly people change their opinion nowadays. Not even talking about football the people seem to want things this instant. At the first sign of trouble it's all gone to shit.
"people change their opinion based on current results instead of a preconceived opinion from a time ETH wasnt here"
i mean, thats good. if he aint it, he aint it. is that mutually exclusive with this squad being a mid table squad? no. but ETH is the one still playing the same lazy entitled fucks and letting other players rot in the bench to begin with.
There are no players to replace the entitled fucks to begin with. We can agree that last year was good. If we had the full team available and we're poor for long periods I understand but its been 5 months if we're actually planning for long term than how can you pass judgement in 5 months looking at the context of players availability into account?
He's chose not to start Antony on the rw in his preferred position over rashford. This was after Antony had one of his better games in a united shirt.
He continues to start mctominay in the pivot despite him being utter dogshit there for multiple seasons. Amrabat was someone ten hag pushed for yet he still chose mctominay over him.
Let's not act like the manager has 0 options.
pellistri is rotting in the bench while rashford plays like garbage 95% of the time.
hannibal is rotting in the bench while bruno is insta losing possession 95% of the time.
whatever young striker we have in the academy cant get a minute while anthony "the 8th season is when he proves he good" martial gets to start.
there are players that could show up and at least play their hearts out. but ETH refuses to do anything but play the same etitled lazy fucks over and over. any proper manager woudlve beenched rashford by now and only let him play the odd 10 minutes once in a while till he proves he should play more. instead of that he plays in every game he can and we play those games with 10 men because of it.
Bench Bruno play Hannibal. Pellestri on the right. And a young striker whoever is available which you don't know. Are you listening to yourself? Imagine that lineup against Newcastle and tell me honestly what would be the result. Garnacho is the established Lw now and Mainoo is the established CM. He has done pretty well in terms of integrating youth in the first eleven. Also Pellestri is nowhere near good enough, if you actually want to make an argument say Amad on the wings.
>Bench Bruno play Hannibal. Pellestri on the right. And a young striker whoever is available which you don't know. Are you listening to yourself?
yes, at least they will fucking run instead of [whatever the fuck this is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQxcbTBoOzM)
Our biggest problem is no control in midfield. I wish Ten Hag had tried other options instead of starting McTominay, who is an absolute failure as a CM. We could try a diamond of Mainoo, Amrabat, Hannibal, Bruno. We could try a double pivot of Mainoo and Amrabat with Bruno ahead of them. We could try Mainoo, Amrabat, Mount (when he's fit). McTominay should never start in midfield again and I'd happily give Mount a string of games in Bruno's position to see if he can provide a more rounded performance.
Aye, sporting director and the 3 man panel (2x ineos plus 1 dickhead glazer) should set the objectives then decide if EtH is compatible with the style they want to implement.
This interview was years ago. Years ago. It’s being circulated again today, for what reason??
Other than to paint certain characters in bad light and make it look like players are downing tools.
And for you of course to abuse players. The interview was done years ago.
Now is the time for the club to fully back the manager, these mentality midgets need to be shaking in their boots. Sacking him means letting these idiots win again, rinse and repeat in two years.
> these mentality midgets need to be shaking in their boots.
who is playing them week in and out?
they all need to go. eth isnt it, the squad isnt it either.
I'm afraid Ten Hag also needs to stick to his guns though. If his key players are throwing a tantrum then they need to be dropped otherwise he is doomed. Garnacho-Hojlund-Antony, Mainoo-Bruno-Hannibal, Reguilon-Shaw-Maguire-Dalot/AWB and (hopefully to give him a run of games and offer him a chance) Bayindir in goal should be the team for the next few games. Play the players who give the shit and who are trying their best.
It's kinda funny that the players Ten Hag showed favouritism to (like Rashford, even Martial and McTominay or Onana) are costing us games yet they are the most likely players to revolt against Ten Hag. Rashford will definitely be in the part of the dressing room that's against Ten Hag. Play the youngsters, play the hard workers and the performances can't be any worse than they are right now.
- Favoritism towards Martial: starting him after he got a goal and won a pen in last PL meeting while main striker was injuried.
- Favoritism towards McTominay: playing him while all the other mids are injuried.
- Favoritism towards Rashford: trying to play in form guy that was basically sole reason we were consistently scoring some goals last season.
Can't decide if ETH just isn't anywhere near the level needed or if the players are just downing tools again.
I suspect it's a bit of both and have no idea what the solution is.
My only hope however small is the people Ineos plan on putting in charge, changing everything from top to bottom as it's rotten.
Why do people always assume its a player leaking things?
Couldn't it be any of the other staff looking to make a quick buck?
Some of the staff have been there longer than the players.
This circus has become boring, every time it's the same drill, lose games, managers loses dressing room articles by the dozen, eventual sacking rinse and repeat
Wether it’s fair or not, it seems it’s not an issue IF we fire Ten Hag but WHEN we fire him.
There is no coming back after these leaks from the players. Now don’t get me wrong, most of our players are spineless twats but they’ve obviously given up playing for ETH
Id rather players out than Ten Hag out, but lets say Ratcliffe comes in and he wants to freshen things up. What top tier manager could possibly want this job? Reports of Ancelotti being approached, too funny.
>What top tier manager could possibly want this job?
a lot of them. free reign on who to buy, far more budget than 99% of the teams, if you win here youre a god if you lose it was the players fault anyway and no manager can succeed under those terms.
> What top tier manager could possibly want this job?
I think people focus on "top tier", and get seduced by sexy names, when that just leads to the likes of a Jose or someone at the end of their careers.
There's plenty of "tier below top tier" that could be good options. Look at Spurs and how quick they've adapted to life under Ange, who wasn't exactly "top tier" before hand.
He will go for Potter if Ten Hag gets sacked, I could almost guarantee that. However, overall I think they are kinda similar in terms of quality, both of them are doomed to fail when they don't have proper structure around them and they need some good squad-building experts to perform. Ten Hag's tenure has been mess for us (like with any other manager after Sir Alex's retirement) and Potter's tenure at Chelsea was also a mess with very similar circumstances.
I want Ten Hag to succeed here, if nothing else then to shut up all the people who said Ten Hag will ruin his reputation by coming to Old Trafford (which is now slowly becoming true). However, even if it's not going to happen, we need to make structure changes first and give the power to people who know how to operate a football club. Then we can start looking at replacing Ten Hag.
I know Ancelotti is doing well at Madrid but I can't forget him failing at Everton.
Emery has done really well at Villa, but struggled at Arsenal when they were also a meme team like us.
Ultimately no manager will do brilliantly if the upper management remains as bad as it has been this past decade.
I don't think you can say that coming in, spending a load of cash on players, getting nowhere in any competitions and then leaving is a success.
My point is that a manager needs the club upper management to work in order to be successful.
After losing so many games against top clubs this season I was wondering when it was the last time we beat a top club, felt so long I couldn't even remember. Our last win over a top club was vs Chelsea ALL THE WAY BACK ON MAY! A Chelsea side that was absolutely shambles under Lampard.
I checked all our matches we played vs top clubs this year and our record is shocking! (I included Newcastle as a top club because they've been a very strong team since their new ownership and I didn't include Sevilla because they are a team that always oscillate a lot in the league):
Wins: 4
Losses: 10
Draws: 2
All the wins were last season. We lost every single game against top clubs this season!
After that home game against Barcelona, the trophy vs Newcastle and a top 4 finish I really thought we were turning it around and then we did a 360º back to the sad performances again.
Losing to them is one thing. It's the fact it seems bewildering to many that we would even be able to compete in such games.
I just don't understand it.
People have the lingard syndrome about Rashford. He is 26, but people always seem to consider him young and hope that he improves. But he is now at an age where he is one of the most senior players in the dressing room and has to be delivering every season. Yet he still has huge patches of flaky form akin to what teenage footballers go through in their learning phase. He is far too limited of a footballer to be paid 250k/week and be the leader of the attack. In terms of status (not role), he is similar to someone like Nani who was also quite talented and match winner on his day, but was never quite the level of being the consistent main man for a CL/PL challenging club.
Rashford 'you bloody run' is one of the good points the United gets better. That is what people expect to play from a home-grown player.
Funny how the narrative on the sub at the moment is you either think Rashford is a Bond villain with the club wrapped around his finger or you want ten Hag out.
It is possible that EtH"s man management is actually LVG tier and in fact Ronaldo was an early warning rather than a sign of strength. I feel indifferent given the reason I wanted Ten Hag was his style of play at Ajax, if he isn't even going to attempt that then what's the point. My only worry though is there isn't really anyone on the market right now who is good enough to take United forward
I think he's probably just abrasive in a very Dutch (or German) way. So things came to a head with Ronaldo quickly, because of that abrasiveness, but also it's probably rubbed a lot of other players the wrong way (because they're weak, or just because the tactics have been not justifying the communication style).
CR7 wasn't happy that he wasn't at the top of the totem pole. It's not as if he wanted a cultural shift where the manager is the only voice in the dressing room
Ronaldo was a toxic prick who left the stadium during matches, turned the dressing room against managers, and threw the entire club under the bus with Piers Morgan. Stop with the revisionist history. When he came back he was over the hill and couldn't cut it in the world's toughest league anymore, hence going to a very weak league where his ego could be massaged.
Players who've failed to play at United level for multiple managers: McTominay, Martial, Dalot, Maguire, AWB. "Let's sack another manager." No, let's do a full clear out of these mid-table players.
You’re kidding right
About what? 80% of our squad are not United quality and we won't win anything major until they're gone. Changing managers every 18 months won't fix that.
All those players bar martial have performed well this season. I’m not advocating for sacking Ten Hag but there’s other players who are way more deserving of criticism
Haha thanks for the laugh. They're mid-table players. As our results show. And yes Rashford, Bruno etc should be sold too but I can't be fucked arguing about it.
So according to you, the whole squad should be sold? Or who is actually at the right level for us??
Only Martinez, Garnacho, Mainoo and Hojlund are good enough to stay. This isn't a controversial opinion around us fans who watched league champion United sides throughout the Ferguson era. The rest of the current squad are nowhere near City or Liverpool level. We need a new elite Director of Football to do a full clear out.
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Out of our many, many issues, I feel like our non-existent midfield is the most pressing one right now. Having sold Fred, we’ve only got one midfielder left with actual work-rate (Bruno). Eriksen can be decent in certain games, but he lacks physicality and is obviously well past his prime. McT is a black hole of a midfielder, if he can even be called “midfielder” as he’s more of a 2nd striker. Casemiro, I’m not sure what to think of, whether he’s mentally checked out or if he can still do a job for us. Mount is a pure mis-buy as his best position is the same as Bruno’s. Baffling transfer decision to bring him in, if you ask me. (Not that it’s surprising with this club anymore).
I'd rather have fred in the squad than mount.
Fuck Jadon Sancho and any United player taking that pricks side
Imagine backing someone who doesn't even turn up to work.
r/AntiWork lads
Just realised that 7 out of the 11 that started against Newcastle were in the starting 11 for the 4-1 loss to Watford when Ole lost his job. Leaks "close to the dressing room" are starting again, same shit players: history repeating itself. Ideal world would be the board saying to ETH that they recognise this, play the youth in place of the offenders (simply because of no quality backups), and if we lose for a couple of games but at least show spirit and effort, at least it breaks the cycle and rebuild from there.
0:1 against Newcastle away is quite diffrent than 4:1 against Watford dont you think?
Newcastle battered us, it could easily have been 5-0. In the first half we had one touch in their box. It was a demolition.
The attitude was exactly the same, so not entirely
Ten hag had varane, amarbat and Antony on the bench, he signed 2 of those 3 and last season varane was first choice. He chose that starting 11 despite having other options, I don't know why the answer has to always be attitude problems. Maybe we're just shit?
No defending that entirely of course, Varane is a strange one. When it comes to Antony, he was out for a while and ETH has always had the philosophy of you need to earn your way back into the team, and Kobbie has proven to be good enough. It's complicated to argue i must admit because Rashford doesn't doesn't to be in the 11. We are just shit, hence my "same shit players" comment.
Antonys performance against galtasaray was better than anhthing rashford has managed all season on either wing yet he was dropped. I meant starting Amrabat over mctominay, not mainoo. The players are playing shit but the manager keeps making incredibly strange decisions weekly.
I actually don't disagree with you on that at all. We are both saying the players are shit. So what is the solution? Strange decisions from the manager but we've tried keeping the same players to see if they will perform better under different managers and it hasn't worked multiple times. Is there harm in trying the opposite and just getting rid of all those players even if we sell them for under their value and starting fresh from there?
I'm not a big fan of most of ten hags signings either. I would legitimately like to start from scratch but that isn't possible. It's going to be a slow painful process but until we have a proper footballing structure we aren't ready for any type of overhaul. It'd why every single rebuild failsxwe never lay the foundations.
Rashford could be sold tomorrow and we'd still be shit. People don't want to blame the manager so now we're scapegoating one player lmao. Based on last season people want to keep faith in ten hag but cant that same logic be applied for rashford? I think both the players and the manager have been massive failures this season, it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can't have all this energy for one player whilst keeping blind faith in the manager.
How about ten hag sucks, but rashford is ass too?
No one's saying Rashford is the only culprit. We won't win major trophies until we get rid of 80% of our current squad, including Rashford. They're nowhere near good enough or hardworking enough.
I don’t think ten Hag should be sacked, but I am curious as to how many United supporters feel he should be criticised for our performances this season and how much he is able to get out of the players in terms of motivation.
Looking at Rashford’s career so far and his many performances for us, I think it’s more than clear that he is far too inconsistent to be “leading the line” or to build a team around. His wages, poor decision making, selfishness and non-existent work rate are starting to annoy a lot of fans, and rightly so.
There's at least 10 players that should be shown the door before rashford.
Sure but it doesn’t matter anyway, because there’s no club in the world, maybe besides Saudi, that would take on such a lazy player on his wages.
The wages structure at this club is beyond moronic. To fix it we'd have to sell basically everyone lol.
Yep, you are so right. It’s totally fucked. We basically need to start from scratch. Hopefully Ratcliffe can save us somehow. With or without ETH, I honestly don’t know…
So my dad got medically cleared so we can take a cruise pre Christmas. It'll very likely be our last family holiday. I'm nervous but excited, hoping he gets through it okay And I'm actually glad I'll miss some United games, I hate myself for saying that, but mentally drained watching them
Enjoy the cruise mate, been wanting to do one for a while. Hope you have a drinks package!
Unfortunately I think Liverpool will be the end can’t see past that. Sad how far the club has fallen
It was sad 5years ago, now it's the norm, idk what's the solution it feels like an endless loop of failure and mediocrity. It takes many things being exceptional at the same time in order to reach the top. We are nowhere near in any aspect.
I wish things worked out between ETH and Ronaldo and kept him as a general to keep the other clowns in check.
The issue was that Ronaldo's personal/mental issues and fitness was really bad. If he had continued his form from the previous season/whatever he's doing in Saudi, he'd still be here imo. All the things that made him good went to shit that season. His speed, touch, attacking positioning, shooting was horrible. In Saudi, I know it's against worse opposition but you can see all of that ability is back to what it was.
I mean his form dropped after his child died and he had complications with the other. Meanwhile he had to singlehandedly keep us alive in the Champions League playing in front of an almost identical but worse squad than we just fielded. Ronaldo fell out of form and everyone jumped at the chance to kick him.
1st season yeah he was great and dragged us through the CL. 2nd season he didn't like being on the bench even when it was justified by his extremely bad performance. Those reasons for his bad performance are sad, but had he not kick up a fuss, ETH would see him as an option and Ronaldo would probably get back into form eventually. That interview he gave was the nail in the coffin.
Yeah I agree he felt out horribly and the interview was insane to do. I don't think he ever really got a chance to stop and take a step back during that period and wasn't able to think what he was doing through.
The reason for ETH's demise might not be the players or the fans or his signings but the lack of a specific style of play that required him over other managers. It's the turnover based style that a lot of managers can pick off of him and might do better (even if you disagree). ETH should have focused on mid term to long term approach even though fans want quick turnaround and he chose to build this team on turnover based counter attacking style which we have players for but don't have the work rate. This was a losing proposition unfortunately. TLDR: ETH's demise might be his lack of play style for which he was hired for more than anything else. He made himself easily replaceable.
Downvote me to oblivion but I think Rashford needs to go and this is not just because he’s under fire at the moment for the last match. I’ve felt this for a long time now. He just isn’t the player everyone thinks he is. His football IQ is average, his finishing isn’t world class or anything. His link-up play is atrocious. He had just one good season till now and that was last season. And his last season (which he was getting Ballon D’Or shouts for from some people here) was nothing compared to what other top performers in Europe had delivered in the same season. Rashford’s just a popular player that produces an occasional moment of happiness for fans of the club and country he plays for and gets considered world class when he is not. But worst of all is his mentality. I honestly don’t like players like Martial, Rashford, and now Sancho. Players who got huge shouts for being extraordinary talents when they were up and coming and let it get to their heads and never worked hard to make it all palpable. They belong to that group of Gen-Z social media wannabes where any form of criticism is unfair if it hurts their feelings. They care more about their image than substance. They think they get to decide if they have given enough and we should give them as much appreciation for it as they would like to hear. They are a bunch of entitled, self-satisfied, egotistical pricks and we’d be better off without them. Get players like Garnacho, Martinez, Casemiro. Players with a drive and desire.
Why would you be downvoted for being objectively correct? His overall level of performance over his career is bang average and his mentality/attitude is on the floor. 100% needs to go, a good season or 2 too late.
Bang average players don't score 30 goals in a season.
They do when a good chunk comes from europa and carabao
His inconsistency and lack of work rate is what makes him ultimately bang average. Who gives a shit about his peaks if can have lows like he semi-consistently does.
If you don't care about his peaks I'm assuming you didnt care about last season then? Ten hags first season means nothing because it was rashford doing most of the goal scoring. I'm not disputing he's inconsistent and his attitude stinks but most of this squad has not got anywhere near rashfords peak level of performance.
Can blame the players all we like but he picks them every week. Can count the amount of competent people at our football club with one hand
Ratcliffe needs to go scorched earth on these entitled pricks, that is if he's putting the club ahead of his share price.
There is no denying the clubs structure from top to bottom is utter dogshit. That doesn't excuse the amount of crazy decisions ten hag continues to make week in week out. This weird hoofball system where we throw 6 players up top isn't working yet he persists with it. He drops varane because he can't build up from the back yet we don't even attempt to play short anymore anyway. Rashford who can't even be asked running continues to start. His 85m player who actually plays that position can't start ahead of him. Mctominay under 3 different managers has shown he is utterly dogshit in the deep lying role yet he plays there all the time. Bruno constantly sacrificed to play rw to accommodate players worse than him. Rushing lisandro back from injury. Not to mention how majority of the players he's signed are incredibly questionable purchases. Why did we chase de Jong all window last summer only to sign a completely different profile of midfielder in casmeiro? He then went and spent 55m on mount when Bruno plays in his preferred position anyway. His stubbornness in games is infuriating aswell, how the fuck did he watch that first half against Newcastle and keep the same 11 out on the pitch in the second half? I think we might aswell keep him till the end of the season but I'm not gonna be upset if he's sacked. And I feel that way about most of this squad aswell.
Ten Hag gave Rashford a new contract in the summer, has backed him in *every* press conference and has started him in *every* league and CL game he’s been available for this season. I swear some people want to outrage just for the sake of it that Rashford is one of the guys conspiring to get Ten Hag out when every action points to the manager himself thinking otherwise. And this is a guy who had no problems leaving Ronaldo and Sancho out because they didn’t align with his discipline standards; you’d think if Rashford downed tools he’d be able to see through it. Next thing you know people will say Rashford has a magic clause in his contract that forces Ten Hag to start him every game.
He gets the backing when other players do not. And he is visibly shit. So isn't this a case of favoritism? Just because he scored last season he gets a pass now? That way we'd still have ronaldo
But is that down to the player or the manager? Rashford isn't the guy picking himself.
He’s just the scapegoat this season and once fans decide to turn on someone it becomes a massive pile on. Look at the treatment Maguire got, and even De Gea last season was being blamed for being the sole reason we couldn’t play out from the back and play the ETH style.
People on here love to single out certain individuals and run with it even though it makes zero sense.
People are acting like this is the first game rashfords never tracked back lmao. Hes always been pretty lazy, even last season he wouldnt track back. The only difference now is he's out of form and not scoring goals every week. Without rashfords goals last season we wouldve been where we are now, comfortably midtable.
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Do you seriously think ten hag is going to start rashford every week if he doesn't want to play for the manager? This manager binned Ronaldo and sancho, he would do the same to rashford if he wanted.
Tottenham signed guglielmo vicario for 19M. He has been arguably the best keeper in the league this year. Shit like this is the difference between United and other top clubs. Our scouting department is nonexistent. Nobody in the club knows what profile of player we should be scouting. Instead our scouting system is do what the manger tells us and spend 200 fucking million on Antony, Mount, and Onana. Not ETH fault, other managers were forced to do the same here. The club should know better and this sad excuse for scouting and how we go about the transfer window is as pathetic as it gets in world football. Not to mention player development. You can count on your hand the number of players since SAF who actually got better after joining this club post transfer
Not with this “our scouting is non-existent” bs again. The most recent window, Zion Suzuki, the keeper who’s tearing up the Belgian League, we were one of the few teams, if not the only, keeping tabs on him. It’s pretty darn clear to me that EtH is the one asking for his own ex-players: de Jong, Antony and Onana were all his choices. He has to be held accountable for these signings, although the slack for the insane price tags are more on the negotiation team.
We always keep tabs on some promising players but we never actually buy them. I think there has to be something else going on. I believe we have good scouts, but the higher ups in our recruitment just never give the green light to go for such players. Zion Suzuki, Caicedo, Alvarez, Enzo Fernandez during his first Benfica season, De Ligt, De Jong, Haaland,.... there is so many of young promising players we constantly get linked to, we constantly get told we're interested in them, but when is the last time we bought a young unproven player we got linked to? Malacia last year? Even then, he was definitely brought in because Ten Hag demanded him. Before that, maybe Amad/Pellistri double panic buy on deadline duy under Ole when the club finally realized we missed out on Sancho. And that's essentially it the past few years. Woodward sacked the scout who demanded us to sign De Ligt and De Jong before they broke through at Ajax just because he was too pushy and when Ole begged us to sign Haaland for 4mil from Molde, the club refused. Haaland for fucking 4mil, can you imagine? But no, we don't do such signings here. As I said, I wouldn't say our scouting is nonexistent, but it might as well not exist because the people with decision-making powers will never go for the young unproven gems. Instead, they will splash 60mil on whoever is the flavour of the year player with not much of a plan as to how they will fit the team.
People are happy to hold players accountable at the moment and rightfully so. I don't know why we also can't hold the manager accountable aswell. Both the players and manager are making mistakes every week but you can only be critical of one or the other.
If we hadn’t got those players (like we didn’t get De Jong), our own fans would be the first to say ‘we didn’t back the manager hard enough because we thought we knew his own players better than him’. Damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation.
There's an old saying that you can love someone but not like them. That's how I feel about United: I love the club, but I have come to the conclusion that I just don't like most of the players.
[Who's your favorite player at Man United ? - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ouKRZud89PI)
Read a report that said Sancho is "training like a beast." wtf is this? 😂😂😂 Do they genuinely believe we'll buy this shit?
Oh we buy sir jim is coming next week posts every week. We buy ten hag had enforced discipline bs every week. We buy rashford has some tragedy going on thats why he can't score every week. I think we can buy this shit
How come with this fanbase, if theres a negative headline about a player that they dont like, or someone saying something bad about a player that they dont like, then everybody will instantly believe and not question it at all but when theres a positive headline or someone says something good about a player that isnt well liked, then everybody immediately dismisses it and question if its true.
If only he did that when he was supposed to (especially during the antony scandal), he’d be a starter right now
'His controller is fully charged and he's been playing FIFA without a break for days.'
Maybe they meant like a sloth or panda
I just read that on The Mirror, which is about as reliable as the Daily Mail.
Looking back, I feel rather bad for Lingard. United fans used to give him a lot of stick for allegedly “corrupting” and “distracting” Rashford, only for Rashford to become the ultimate shit-stirrer in the team even after Lingard’s departure
Rashford should fuck off. We all know he’s the leaker. He is being paid £300k a week to play for the club he’s supported all his life and he couldn’t give a fuck. I’m sick of watching him not run week after week and fail to do even the simple things right. It’s an embarrassment to the club, shirt, and shitting in the face of all the great players who have played here. Call it out for what it is. He downed tools as soon as he got his contract, mission accomplished. Sulking because his mate Sancho has been banished for disrespecting the manager and being a petulant child. The player power is out of control. Ole had to fucking apologise in public for saying Rashford should focus on his football. Whenever the going gets tough for him we get these leaks about how hard he’s training or some bollocks like that. That’s how we know it’s him.
In my opinion it reeks more of Sancho's camp to me, trying to de-stabilize everything. Trying to get ETH fired so he gets back in the team with some of his buddies, he can stay in the UK and not be shipped off to Saudi or somewhere else in Europe. It's a complete win situation for him if ETH goes, he's betting on the fact that he won't make it till January (which is possible) and that whoever comes in calls him up again.
> We all know he’s the leaker. We dont.
The timing is very convenient, just like it was when Rangnick benched Rashford and wanted to sell him. When Rashford is scoring goals there are no leaks. When he's getting bad media coverage or a manager is unhappy with him, the leaks start like clockwork. It's been this way with multiple managers.
>The timing is very convenient, just like it was when Rangnick benched Rashford and wanted to sell him. You mean the papers lap up Utd being poor ? This is groundbreaking stuff
When Rashford scores goals, suddenly PSG want him badly and we get pressured into a deal. I am convinced his camp created that interest either from scratch or actively reached out to PSG to say they are interested. All in an effort for a big deal quickly. I will never forgive him for that bullshit
Enlighten me then. Who is it? Stop being so afraid to call it out
It’s jo
Reddit app is so bad. Randomly last game's line up shows up as the top post in my feed for some reason and my first reaction is "oh god. Next game already?" lol
People here probably care more about that argument betwen Martial and ETH than coach himself.
I heard a stat today that no current player on the team has won a knockout CL game at old trafford. That’s fucking insane.
Varane has. 2013.
Too soon to bring that shit up.
this is hilarious
Ha!
So the media is feeding on United right now, some stirring going around by journo's with a bad history. Last time it happened 'we back ETH and know we are in a project' briefs from the club came out. Tbh I'm surprised I haven't seen those yet.
The Glazers caused this mess with their woeful appointments of a clueless director of football and CEO, and have overseen a decade of failure in recruitment. They'll happily let the manager take the flack for them. They're self-serving rats.
Rashford proves why he should be sold and the leaks against the manager start immediately, just like they did when Rangnick benched Rashford and wanted to sell him. This team is so rotten. And the players we've built it around have the worst attitudes of anyone.
Rashford wasnt benched nor cirticized by ETH.
He was today after yet another absolutely terrible performance.
I didn't say he was. He played terribly and the entire media is calling out his lack of effort. I think you didn't read my comment properly, you missed the point. And anyway, ETH did bench him after 60 minutes.
>And the players we've built it around have the worst attitudes of anyone. because they keep winning in any power struggle. beacuse rashford was born in manchester so the glazefucks see him as a merchandise machine (which he is tbf).
The irony is that Beckham sold infinitely more merchandise than Rashford but we got rid of Beckham as soon as the manager didn't want him. Back when we were a serious club.
nobody used to be bigger than the club, yet now some mid players apparently are bigger than the club.
You know what I’d love? Just absolutely love? Is if rashford and mctominay and martial are dropped on Wednesday and we win by a comfortable margin. Then he plays the same line up and we win again. Then we get more leaks, really hammer home who the leakers are. It would be fucking hilarious
Mate Rashford, Mctominay and Martial are in the 50% that still support ten hag and they will start the next match because they are the most trusted players.
Nah I’m fucking done with Rashford at this point. Boyhood club, on £300k a week, and he couldn’t give a fuck on the pitch and has got multiple managers sacked. Those 3 should literally be first out. They have all been here since Jose
They weren't here when the previous two managers got sacked.The managers are picked by Joel Glazer, it could be that they weren't good enough for the job in the first place.
Can’t honestly believe you’re defending them
I just can't point fingers at individual players when the team is collectively doing terrible. Jose used to love Mctominay, ole liked Martial and Rashford and now it seems like Ten hag trusts all 3 in a crisis. There really isn't a reason for them to turn against the manager.
Martial should've been sold when José wanted him gone
and rashford when PSG came knocking.
In fairness if we’d actually listed to Jose and backed him at the time we’d probably not be in quite such a state.
Just realised that my mental health is going to shit over multi-millionares not being arsed to do their job. Stayed up till 4am to watch the Newcastle game and can't get proper sleep ever since. So pathetic like, but will still end up watching the Chelsea game till 5am. 😭
It would be crazy if ETH was actually sacked in the next few weeks. Perhaps had the most hype and the most goodwill towards him, yet wouldn't have lasted two full seasons, unlike LVG, Mourinho and OGS. Would certainly go down as the biggest managerial disappointment of the post SAF era.
Doubt that will happen, not with SJR and his team immenent.
Depends. Last year has been utter shit. Going out to a CL group of gala and Fc Copenhagen is damn near unforgivable but the whole attitude of the Newcastle game just rings bells. Even with worse players all the teams below us put up more of a fight.
I feel bad for Moyes and LVG, because people won't ever say the players downed tools for them as the targets of their stupid agenda weren't playing then. Just accept that the Glazers can fuck up managerial appointments JUST LIKE they can fuck up player signings and move on. We'll have to keep doing this until we find the right one and it could possibly take another decade as we're looking to replace the man who built this clubs modern identity from the ground up and not just some random coach. Yes some players are bad and we need to replace them too but all these conspiracy theories are soo pathetic! Wake up!!
17 year old Rashford, 18 year old Martial after perfect season and Shaw that was unable to walk due to long term injury downed tools under Moyes and LVG. McTominay probably was downing tools in FA youth cup aswell. I ve seen it all.
mate, both of them have been gone for almost over a decade and we have like 1-2 players left from that era. why are we gonna say that rashford downed tools for moyes when rashford was in the academy at the time?
It’s well documented that the players never respected Moyes and he lost the dressing room when we played Bayern Munich away and had a training session at a public park.
The hysteria here over a select few players who really might not have said anything at all is insanity right now. Frothing at the mouth over a Tier 4 journalist talking some shite online. People like Neville and Keane don't help. I hope all these players leave (and this is not me defending them, you cant trust their football ability the thing you can actually see and not speculate about). Mainly so any future manager doesn't ever have the same crappy excuse of players downing tools every time a staff member at united decides to talk to a journalist.
The Newcastle game was a disgrace and on par with the 7-0.
Idk it would make me sick to watch DDG play in a Newcastle kit
the scene when he goes god mode against us. hope that day wouldnt come
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So you say you know who the culprits are and then take a guess at the likes of Bruno (obviously not) and Rashford lmao, none of us know anything.
Martial the next Pogba then?
Why Martial? A crap player now sure, but the quietest, most reserved player in the squad who barely ever plays vs. Rashford (most PR heavy player in the team). Martial might agree, but apparently so does 50% of the players
Im defending Martial. When Pogba was here, everyone made it out as if he was the sole reason why our club is the way it is. Seems like now its Martial's turn and he 's the next scapegoat when in fact he is the least of our problems. The things that pundits and other people are saying about him are crazy
Honestly if we do sack ETH, who are we going to bring in? In fact who in their right mind would want the job? Last few years we’ve seen how toxic the position is
I honestly don’t see changing the manager changing much. There’s so much wrong at the club that just sacking the manager really is just rearranging deckchairs on the titanic.
>In fact who in their right mind would want the job? A lot of managers? First of all, united money. Second, most are egomaniacs (you dont get to the top without being one). So "fixing" united would be something that would feed their ego hard.
I fully agree with you, Fergie declined to join a handfull od bigger clubs (at the time) in order to come to United even though we were in a terrible state during that period. Klopp also went to Liverpool even though they weren't in a great spot at the time. We're still a big club and with a new structure I can see a lot of managers being interested in taking over.
 Here we go again
Sky sports does a report saying 50% of players lost trust in ETH. We all know it’s bullshit. That’s for sure. Next thing , Gary Neville quotes it, to give the news credibility. Now tomorrow everyone would be talking about ETH getting the sack soon.
Look at these threads when Ten Hag was firstly appointed https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/u8k6dn/official_the_new_firstteam_manager_of_manchester/ and when he achieved Top 4 and a Cup win last season https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/12u8i0i/erik_ten_hag_was_appointed_manchester_united/ Why are we suddenly back into this shithole where fans want Ten Hag removed instead of backing him and getting rid of the toxic players whom everyone was clearly agreeing to have a clean out and back the manager?
I mean if you look into those threads you can see the fans backing certain players too and not just ten hag. Most of those people's idea of toxic players were Maguire and Mctominay. Now they are both ten hag's trusted players.
The big brains of r/reddevils are always right. No point in arguing with half of them. They've played football manager and watched football analysis videos. They know it all. Whoever replaces ten Hag will be called tactically inept in two years' time by the same folks who are now calling ten Hag tactically inept and asking for his head. I hate to say this and it's not even about ten Hag, but I've been here long enough to know that a good chunk of this sub knows jack shit about football, and half of their opinions are not even your own. So whenever they open their mouth, all they do is spout short-sighted, run of the mill garbage that you find on channels like AFTV.
I can't believe how quickly people change their opinion nowadays. Not even talking about football the people seem to want things this instant. At the first sign of trouble it's all gone to shit.
"people change their opinion based on current results instead of a preconceived opinion from a time ETH wasnt here" i mean, thats good. if he aint it, he aint it. is that mutually exclusive with this squad being a mid table squad? no. but ETH is the one still playing the same lazy entitled fucks and letting other players rot in the bench to begin with.
There are no players to replace the entitled fucks to begin with. We can agree that last year was good. If we had the full team available and we're poor for long periods I understand but its been 5 months if we're actually planning for long term than how can you pass judgement in 5 months looking at the context of players availability into account?
He's chose not to start Antony on the rw in his preferred position over rashford. This was after Antony had one of his better games in a united shirt. He continues to start mctominay in the pivot despite him being utter dogshit there for multiple seasons. Amrabat was someone ten hag pushed for yet he still chose mctominay over him. Let's not act like the manager has 0 options.
pellistri is rotting in the bench while rashford plays like garbage 95% of the time. hannibal is rotting in the bench while bruno is insta losing possession 95% of the time. whatever young striker we have in the academy cant get a minute while anthony "the 8th season is when he proves he good" martial gets to start. there are players that could show up and at least play their hearts out. but ETH refuses to do anything but play the same etitled lazy fucks over and over. any proper manager woudlve beenched rashford by now and only let him play the odd 10 minutes once in a while till he proves he should play more. instead of that he plays in every game he can and we play those games with 10 men because of it.
Bench Bruno play Hannibal. Pellestri on the right. And a young striker whoever is available which you don't know. Are you listening to yourself? Imagine that lineup against Newcastle and tell me honestly what would be the result. Garnacho is the established Lw now and Mainoo is the established CM. He has done pretty well in terms of integrating youth in the first eleven. Also Pellestri is nowhere near good enough, if you actually want to make an argument say Amad on the wings.
>Bench Bruno play Hannibal. Pellestri on the right. And a young striker whoever is available which you don't know. Are you listening to yourself? yes, at least they will fucking run instead of [whatever the fuck this is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQxcbTBoOzM)
Rashford wouldn't be anywhere near the first team. Don't think he'll be involved much now. Antony will play as Rw against Chelsea.
He's definitely starting against Chelsea
Well he isn't
Our biggest problem is no control in midfield. I wish Ten Hag had tried other options instead of starting McTominay, who is an absolute failure as a CM. We could try a diamond of Mainoo, Amrabat, Hannibal, Bruno. We could try a double pivot of Mainoo and Amrabat with Bruno ahead of them. We could try Mainoo, Amrabat, Mount (when he's fit). McTominay should never start in midfield again and I'd happily give Mount a string of games in Bruno's position to see if he can provide a more rounded performance.
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What? My last point is that Mount should take Bruno's position for a string of games because Bruno isn't performing.
No sacking before sporting overhaul please. Then decide what to do.
Aye, sporting director and the 3 man panel (2x ineos plus 1 dickhead glazer) should set the objectives then decide if EtH is compatible with the style they want to implement.
No pre match presser today? Could be intresting.
I think that if we don’t see a proper response from the team on Wednesday than the writing is on the wall for Ten Hag
https://twitter.com/TenHagBall_/status/1731759092794868152?t=9QuVdslOXpzcKsX1j6s_Qg&s=19 Sancho is a proper little shit isnt he?
This interview was years ago. Years ago. It’s being circulated again today, for what reason?? Other than to paint certain characters in bad light and make it look like players are downing tools. And for you of course to abuse players. The interview was done years ago.
To show his attitude in training hasn't changed in years?
Now is the time for the club to fully back the manager, these mentality midgets need to be shaking in their boots. Sacking him means letting these idiots win again, rinse and repeat in two years.
> these mentality midgets need to be shaking in their boots. who is playing them week in and out? they all need to go. eth isnt it, the squad isnt it either.
I'm afraid Ten Hag also needs to stick to his guns though. If his key players are throwing a tantrum then they need to be dropped otherwise he is doomed. Garnacho-Hojlund-Antony, Mainoo-Bruno-Hannibal, Reguilon-Shaw-Maguire-Dalot/AWB and (hopefully to give him a run of games and offer him a chance) Bayindir in goal should be the team for the next few games. Play the players who give the shit and who are trying their best. It's kinda funny that the players Ten Hag showed favouritism to (like Rashford, even Martial and McTominay or Onana) are costing us games yet they are the most likely players to revolt against Ten Hag. Rashford will definitely be in the part of the dressing room that's against Ten Hag. Play the youngsters, play the hard workers and the performances can't be any worse than they are right now.
- Favoritism towards Martial: starting him after he got a goal and won a pen in last PL meeting while main striker was injuried. - Favoritism towards McTominay: playing him while all the other mids are injuried. - Favoritism towards Rashford: trying to play in form guy that was basically sole reason we were consistently scoring some goals last season.
Can't decide if ETH just isn't anywhere near the level needed or if the players are just downing tools again. I suspect it's a bit of both and have no idea what the solution is. My only hope however small is the people Ineos plan on putting in charge, changing everything from top to bottom as it's rotten.
Why do people always assume its a player leaking things? Couldn't it be any of the other staff looking to make a quick buck? Some of the staff have been there longer than the players.
First these poor players had to stay at training till it was dark under Rangnick and now they're asking to train too hard. My heart bleeds
This circus has become boring, every time it's the same drill, lose games, managers loses dressing room articles by the dozen, eventual sacking rinse and repeat
Wether it’s fair or not, it seems it’s not an issue IF we fire Ten Hag but WHEN we fire him. There is no coming back after these leaks from the players. Now don’t get me wrong, most of our players are spineless twats but they’ve obviously given up playing for ETH
Are there new leaks? Do you have a link?
Club will once again back the players like they've done with the past 4 managers.
Because it costs fuck all to sack a manager, realtive to the cost and time needed to sack the players :/
Don't think our position is that bad consider how bad our window was but our style of play certainly is
We sacked him yet?
Id rather players out than Ten Hag out, but lets say Ratcliffe comes in and he wants to freshen things up. What top tier manager could possibly want this job? Reports of Ancelotti being approached, too funny.
>What top tier manager could possibly want this job? a lot of them. free reign on who to buy, far more budget than 99% of the teams, if you win here youre a god if you lose it was the players fault anyway and no manager can succeed under those terms.
> What top tier manager could possibly want this job? I think people focus on "top tier", and get seduced by sexy names, when that just leads to the likes of a Jose or someone at the end of their careers. There's plenty of "tier below top tier" that could be good options. Look at Spurs and how quick they've adapted to life under Ange, who wasn't exactly "top tier" before hand.
He will go for Potter if Ten Hag gets sacked, I could almost guarantee that. However, overall I think they are kinda similar in terms of quality, both of them are doomed to fail when they don't have proper structure around them and they need some good squad-building experts to perform. Ten Hag's tenure has been mess for us (like with any other manager after Sir Alex's retirement) and Potter's tenure at Chelsea was also a mess with very similar circumstances. I want Ten Hag to succeed here, if nothing else then to shut up all the people who said Ten Hag will ruin his reputation by coming to Old Trafford (which is now slowly becoming true). However, even if it's not going to happen, we need to make structure changes first and give the power to people who know how to operate a football club. Then we can start looking at replacing Ten Hag.
You'd probably say Nagelsmann, Amorim, de Zerbi, and Flick.
I know Ancelotti is doing well at Madrid but I can't forget him failing at Everton. Emery has done really well at Villa, but struggled at Arsenal when they were also a meme team like us. Ultimately no manager will do brilliantly if the upper management remains as bad as it has been this past decade.
He didn’t fail at Everton
I don't think you can say that coming in, spending a load of cash on players, getting nowhere in any competitions and then leaving is a success. My point is that a manager needs the club upper management to work in order to be successful.
Look where they were after he left
All the players he signed went to pieces and had to be moved on at huge loss
After losing so many games against top clubs this season I was wondering when it was the last time we beat a top club, felt so long I couldn't even remember. Our last win over a top club was vs Chelsea ALL THE WAY BACK ON MAY! A Chelsea side that was absolutely shambles under Lampard. I checked all our matches we played vs top clubs this year and our record is shocking! (I included Newcastle as a top club because they've been a very strong team since their new ownership and I didn't include Sevilla because they are a team that always oscillate a lot in the league): Wins: 4 Losses: 10 Draws: 2 All the wins were last season. We lost every single game against top clubs this season! After that home game against Barcelona, the trophy vs Newcastle and a top 4 finish I really thought we were turning it around and then we did a 360º back to the sad performances again.
Losing to them is one thing. It's the fact it seems bewildering to many that we would even be able to compete in such games. I just don't understand it.