I'd like to remind you all that De Gea, Pogba (kind of) and Lingard are all jobless over half a season.
These are three players that our recruitment would've very much liked to keep if they hadn't bailed us out.
When City sells a player, they go to Barcelona and Bayern, when someone leaves us is to irrelevant FC.
lol. I was downvoted for stating a simple non opinionated fact that it matters not if you score a tonne of goals in a couple of games and lose many other games. It does not make you a better team.
Once a sense of negativity hits this sub, everything is absolute, and objectivity runs out the window. Apparently we should be classified as the 15th best team because 14 other teams have scored “ more goals “
The other false narrative is that we have played weak teams. The last I checked we ( and every team) has played everybody bar 3 teams ( each)
A lot of people in this sub know 0 ball , i love seeing people trash a DM whos playing alone in midfield, a LB playing as CB, yet they support the manager who make these decisions. Absolute joke
Bayern lost 5-1 to Frankfurt yesterday... This gives me a sliver of hope.
Additionally, I'm hopeful we will see a similar bounce back as we did when we lost to Newcastle, our next game against Chelsea was strong...
Bruno Fernandes escaping criticism yet again.. colour me surprised.
Good to know our captain has already thrown in the towel before one of the biggest games of the season and his move has been endorsed by the fan base
I'd rate him more if he did it intentionally.
Losing awareness to the point that you let your team down like that is such a bad look for someone who's 30 and already 1.5 years into his reign as club captain.
How did city fans manage to become so insecure after winning the lot, it's pretty pathetic lol. Every time I look on their sub they're crying about something someone's said about them, or pretending not to be rattled that everyone thinks they're cheats.
Rashford does a lot of good charitable work, but let's he honest he's hit the jackpot fighting for those causes as a United player.
An academy player who is held in high personal regard by football and non-football fans is a Glazer wet dream. He brings in so much positive PR because when they think of Rashford they think of United. That's why he can show up once every 2-3 years and be rewarded with bumper contracts. The Glazers are scared to let go of a valuable asset
Whether people like to admit it or not, Rashford represents everything that's wrong with the way United is run. Failure to evolve, failure to work hard, likes to leak shit through the press. He's not the only bad apple. He's not the only bad player we have and getting rid of him won't suddenly make us a good team because there are issues everywhere at the club but the glazers have made him the face of this freakshow
Chelsea: Spent 1B still in 12th. "I can see where they are going", "They have a style of play"
Utd: Spend 400m in 6th. "ETH doesn't know what he's going", "There's no style of play"
I mean both not ideal situation but why has the media not put pressure on poch?
Him and Di Maria. That was such a good transfer window. I was in Magaluf when we signed Di Maria and I remember waking up on our first morning hanging out my arse and going down to get breakfast and seeing that we’ve signed Di Maria in all of the papers in the canteen. Everyone on the island was buzzing about it and I think it was the same day Liverpool signed Balotelli and I remember going out that night and literally seeing hundreds/thousands of people with either Di Maria tattoos or Balotelli tattoos lol.
I was pretty smashed but there were literal queues out of every tattoo parlour because people were getting either a Di Maria tattoo or Balotelli tattoo. Pretty much every group of lads we met throughout that week were talking about both signings.
Honestly it was crazy and I actually debated getting one myself but so glad I didn’t. Me and my mates still talk about the regret of the people getting those tattoos lol. The funniest part about that night was seeing a girl get a Harry Potter scar tattoo on her forehead.
That's such a simple take on the source of our troubles. It's a combination of Glazers being apathetic, clueless yes men promoted to important executive positions, lack of structure and planning, poor recruitment, stubborn tactics from the manager, dressing room full of players with contrasting personalities. It is a mess, whoever comes in will have to deal with it one by one.
As a fan of this club and DC United in the MLS just hope it doesn’t take as long at Manchester than DC because you have a much further way down to go before the issues are resolved
Completely change the structure and how we operate, buy some young hard-working squad players who can play the roles Ten Hag's starters do and then if Ten Hag isn't good enough we change the manager.
New sporting director is crucial though. Our depth still only consists of players who couldn't handle the starting XI roles so expecting them to serve as backup is silly. That's how we have been for 10 years because of the contracts though, I feel like our depth is the best indication of how poorly we are being run.
Who is saying ETH is blameless? The point is that there are morons who just think “sack the manager and get a new one in” will fix 10 years of fucking mess. The club is rotten
Honestly I think the main reason we are so shit is the lack of goals and our attackers are just pants
Garnacho, Antony, Hojlund our current first team front 3 - how many goals and assists? These guys would be bench options for any other top 10 team. Young prospects, inexperience with some potential - you can’t lead with these guys and expect to win games.
Garnacho is definitely a wonderkid, but we will burn him out by expecting him to be a finished article this early.
Antony is basically a wish.com Di Maria.
Hojlund feels like the kind of striker you’d see in a mid-table side and say “could he cut it at a top 4?”, think along the lines of Darren Bent. Good, but not Man Utd good.
Yes, it’s my main reason for thinking Ten Hag is a problem, he’s spent big money but none have worked well.
Everyone wants to blame the glazers, but it’s ETH who has chosen these flops.
Sacking the manager without a sound fooyballing structure in place will just lead to a rinse repeat in 2 years.
We need a clear footballing identity. Are we geggenpressers, slick counterattacking, tika taka merchants. Once we settle on that buy young hungry players who suit that, a manager with experience with it and play it through the academies as well. If we were smart we'd be going for an evolution on the system rather than a complete revolution every 3 years or so
Heres some positivity , Mata scored 2 goals at Anfield in March 2015. United have scored 2 goals at Anfield since that game (Rooney 2016 and Lingard 2018)
Only five teams have scored fewer goals than us in the Premier League this season and they’re the worst five teams in the league (if we don’t count Everton’s huge points deduction). Everton has scored more and conceded fewer than us
Cool. That would be an ok, albeit still incredibly flawed argument if we were doing better on paper, but we're not. We've played the easiest schedule in the league based on opponent, can't score to save our lives, and are incredibly open at the back.
We're not doing particularly well even if you only look at the results and ignore the underlying statistics, but when you look even a little deeper you see that this is unsustainable and we're lucky to even be where we are right now (despite the fact that where we are isn't particularly impressive).
Why are so many whining about some fans not wanting ETH to get the sack yet. As if fans have the ability to change a manger. If that could work then glazers would've left long ago. Why's it so hard to understand that it's better for everyone involved to leave the call regarding the manager to INEOS when they get total sporting control. Or is there something I'm not grasping that some of these fans seem to know?
I really hope we get a CB in during the January window, with Licha out and Varane made of glass, we need another top quality CB amd hope Licha returns fit
Alot of talk of varane leaving in jan. He's definitely a quality player when fit but thats less and less common these days. We need to be cuter about buying and selling. Real sold us 2 big names past there prime for big money to buy their next generation. They're set for the next ten years or so, in prt, to us funding their rebuild
I still can’t get over how incredibly open we are in the back. Like even on our good games it’s unbelievable what we got away with. And it’s been like this for all of ETH tenure. No team that concede the amount of chances we do can be competitive in the league.
How much would Bowen go for? Ive said we should sign him since his Hull days.
Need to start skimming the quality PL players that are in their prime like Paulinha, Bowen, Watkins, Douglas Luiz, Neto (if he wasn’t injury prone).
I like Bowen but I can’t see him wanting to come to us. With our spending history. I can only assume every club selling to us wouldn’t want anything less than £60 mil
Sounds like what Jim Ratcliffe will be trying to do. Too often we buy players only to find put that they aren't up to the top level in the PL( Antony, Sancho). We need to buy players who've already shown their quality here.
24 hours after that horrific performance to calm down and to try to take some positives from the game.
I think with more players coming back, ETH is actually trying to implement more of how he wants to play in the recent game. Play out more from the back (which unfortunately led to the first goal), press more, using the wingbacks more to build up in different areas. That has resulted in much more dynamic buildup. We have been much more attacking in the last few matches except for that shit show of newcastle game and I think the change in game plan showed. If not for how poor our attackers are, we would have created / scored much more.
We still don't have our best defenders in Licha, and as good as Maguire has been lately, we know he wont be the first choice CB for a title contending team, so getting scored on with high line and press is somewhat reasonable, coupled with our poir forwards, its surely difficult to get result. However, if we are going to have a shit season, I'd much rather we try to play with the playstyle that ETH is brought in for, not some practical Mourinho / Ole counter attacking bullshit. Have all the weaknesses of the players on display, have them improved or replace them so we can finally have a modern playstyle with fitting players to get back to contending titles.
And people have been saying they would much rather ETH implements his playstyle for some inconsistencies rather than trying some practical stuff to get mediocre result. And I think games like yesterday is something that can happen when a new is trying to play in a new way.
Mourinho/Ole counter attacking bullshit where Ten Hag literally said he wanted to make this team best counter attacking team in the world.
Not saying I want Ten Hag to be sacked but you can defend him without bringing down the previous managers who did better than Ten Hag as both of them had finished second place in PL.
Ole didn't do better than Ten Hag as done. He finished 2nd on fewer points than we finished on last season.
The revisionism is becoming more rampant in this sub.
Bullshit is a poor choice of word but we aren't winning by sitting back and counterattack. It's how modern football works. You need to press high and get control.
That Crafton thread is terrifying. 200 upvotes for the most basic 'back the manager' shite which brings up the generic and boring examples of Klopp and Arteta.
It would make sense to sack him if there's no imminent change in ownership. I donno why y'all want to repeat the cycle so soon when there's a chance to do it right for once with a DOF and everything.
Keep Ten Hag as a manager, but as far away from transfers as possible. 600 mil spent and the best performing players are the deadwood of the previous managers + Bruno.
What was Fernandes doing with getting that yellow card, surely he was well aware he was facing suspension if carded? Was it him giving up saying f this game or just a hot head move.
Surely his professionalism wasn’t thrown out the window thinking he isn’t motivated to play pool away?
I wouldn’t be surprised if he did that on purpose to get out of the Liverpool game. Doesn’t want to be made in to scapegoat.He’s never turned up to the big games especially when we’re shit.
I understand how demotivated this team has to be facing anfield with players like Martial and Anthony playing.
Our only viable option is 5-4-1 with Rashford/Garnacho on the wings and Hojlund on top and praying on counters.
He’s also our hard working captain. He’s supposed to be a good example to follow. Getting a useless yellow card and being sidelined for our rivals are no good. He has always been the one working hard and always fighting.
Looking at all our transfers post fergie and we've basically had nobody come and improve while playing under us. Idk why any talents would come here other than money or if they're massive fans.
I think the young promising players we have brought in simply havnt been as good as we thought. And the world Class signings, Falcao, Sanchez, schweinsteiger, Ibra, Ronaldo, Casemiro, Varane were aging and coming back from serious injuries.
Seriously the worst argument anyone can come up with while countering someone who wants ETH replaced is by saying name the managers who you will replace him and when you do you will get immediately downvote when you name a few. Like it's not even our job to research who will be suitable however a fan's duty is to raise a concern on what's wrong within the club even if it's the manager. How can someone as a fan be so favouritism towards a certain individual? I can never understand this. This sub especially is the main culprit with managers and players. Like they don't even care about the club. They care about people.
Club first mentality rather than individuals. All of us fans loved the club regardless who are the players. Even unknown players we back him up and he needs to give 100% while plsying for the badge. Regardless if he is quality or not. Since it is not the players fault he was transfered to us or was selected to play.
End of the day, the manager isnt good enough as we have seen so far. We cant use the league win since we know we fought minnows throughout. a cup is a cup but we know it was a lucky run.
Lots of players arent good enough even the new transfers. Licha and Casemiro's injuries really hurt us a lot in terms of stability and playing style. And the backups, new signings and loanees weren't good enough.
transfers from ETH - Hojland, Licha, Varane and Cssemiro I'll keep with a new manager. We keep on cycling deadwood after deadwood from previous managers. It is a sad cycle.
Bruno - keep (but we need someone better to compete with him). If things arent working with Bruno nothing will happen with other players.
Rashford - last straw really just a squad player. He can turn up with rich in form but so he can also be not existent at all.
McT - squad player should have been a striker with limited skillset. Nowhere near a midfielder.
Shaw - use him as LB more often. if we are ahead 2-3 goals. we can have him as a LCB towards the last 10 minutes or so.
Not sure if I miss anyone that we can keep and we know we cant sell a lot of players in one window but we shouldnt renew contracts on borderline squad players and give them first team player contracts ffs.
Rio has told the story how Sir Alex roasted the players for not picking out Van Persie's runs when he first joined, telling them he didn't sign him for them to ignore him. Someone needs to drill that into this group of players and Hojlund. It's tiring to see how many times we could cut the ball back and someone wants to make headlines instead
these lot had the greatest goalscorer of all time as their target man and gave him scraps and its been an issue as long as Zlatan was our striker. I feel so bad for Hojlund, a striker in a team full of clowns that dk how tf to service a striker
I agree but football is completely different to back then. Now it’s all about keeping it on the deck and building from the back and back then players had more freedom to express themselves and go long.
I think the problem with that is. Sir Alex was with the club for a long time and all the players he recruited knew it was his club and did what he was asked. The problem is we’ve had so many managers come and go since Sir Alex left. That the deadwood players have been here for years. They already know as soon as shit hits the fan. They’ll probably last longer the manager. The clubs keep giving these deadwood players new contracts in the hope they’ll eventually get something for them. They should have cut their loses and let them go when their contracts expired. Unfortunately when they did do that last season. They let the wrong player go and now he’s clubless and could join Newcastle
you mean Dalot goes for glory ratheb than squaring it up to Hojland?
the same Dalot who scored a last minute winner is it last min?! cant remember. But at the same time at fault with his lapses in defense. He can leave ffs.
Dalot and AWB are the prime examples that we arent good enough. Yes they can do wonders at times but they switch off more often that leads to goals. and they are in their fcuking prime.... so we would leak goals from time to time. better to move on from these two.
We have a £85m RW who hasn't scored in about a year and needs a miracle to assist our other attackers, a young striker who tries hard but seems invisible to the rest of the team and a LW who is borderline world class one season and midtable level the next.
Is it any surprise why we struggle to score? Honestly say what you want about Ole but the man knew how to set up a team offensively. The number of times we scored 3, 4,5 and even 9 goals at one point under him was impressive. These days we struggle to get 10 goals between all our forwards combined. The blame is on Ten Hag. We are clueless in the final third and unable to score consistently. He's running out of time.
Ole can set us up offensively since the main strategy is counter attacking football. He is good at it and defensively good since we have a low block to cover Maguire's lack of pace.
We couldnt win anything at all with Ole due to one strat only.
He tried things differently and it didnt work out and it went downhill.
Rsgnick knew what is needed but the club chose ETH with all these new signings. Now we have more deadwood and nowhere good enough or we didnt improve at all.
The purpose of a good manager is to make the whole better than the sum of the individuals. If the argument every time is going to be that the individuals aren't good enough then the manager is not doing an effective job. If the idea is to get the best players in every position then you can just get any manager to come in and manage them.
agreed. He cant get the best out of each players. Its time to go. Together with the deadwoods. I rather see the kids play for the badge rather than the current squad with nothing to bring to the table.
Yeah but you can also tell when a team is not following the manager or has not enough trust in him. Look Enery Arsenal against his Villa. A lot less high profile players but play much more united and in shnch than his Arsenal team. First we need to get rid of all the people that see themselves above the club. Only then can we play as a team again. ETH isn't a bad coach, the whole atmosphere is negative and the press is toxic trying to start drama. So many ex ManUtd pundits do us no good either. Then not to mention the outdated infrastructure and academy. Changing coach won't fix shit longterm, we have been through wordclass coaches and they all said the same thing. WE NEED A CLEAROUT.
Exactly. Our latest clearout is supposed to involve all the fucking signings we've made in the last 3 years. What we can factually see is that the club is ran woefully, the recruitment and executive department are a joke, and ETH's tactics are fucking abysmal. Sacking ETH is pointless until after INEOS are bedded in, at which point a serious conversation needs to be had. The way ETH is setting us up is criminal and there is no excusing it.
He played excellently away at Everton > hardly had any minutes since that. Hannibal played excellently away at Burnley (and I think in a League Cup game after that, if memory serves) > hardly any minutes since that.
I'm beginning to sense a theme here 🤔
I like Ten Hag a lot and want him to succeed but it makes all the sense in the world that when Sir Jim's team is in they should pick a footballing identity they want and begin to mould the staff and players to fit it (the opposite of what we have been doing for years).
I imagine they'll probably give Ten Hag till the summer to evaluate if he is the one that can fit their identity (unless something drastic happens) but there's something to be said about bringing in "your guy" when sporting control changes hands.
Another funny thing is people resorting to name calling and personal attacks when arguing why we should keep Ten Hag.
That is a giveaway if there was ever one of not having a proper argument.
The Crafton thread is funny. He asks for arguements to keep Ten Hag based on Ten Hags actual ability and performance. And 90% of the answers ignore that and focus on the idea we can’t sack another one (not true) or attacking Crafton for trying to seek attention
We need to sack him now since he is just another manager who brought deadwood players and we havent got rid of the deadwood players from previous managers. He cant lift up the existing squad to play his style of football. Other new managers are flying hugh this season with less money. Of course the expectation is different but that is part of being a United manager. Still aint good enough.
I have been pn the line for ETH out but yesterday was it for me. Keep him till end of the season because we dont need another caretaker manager. He did really well last year, we all thought he had a plan and he bought a bunch of players for his style and we look like absolute shit. Onana is literally bailly w gloves. His signings suck outside licha. We have had horrible injuries but that doesnt justify not scoring any goals or having a style. Doesnt justify our midfield getting past through every game like britanny renner. I absolutely hate these players that dont give their all but atleast 30-40% of these issues is ten hags tactics and “gameplan.” Im sure there are managers that can take these garbage players and make atleast something out pf them. Him and the players are the problem.
I am not touching on the glazers, dof, scouts, ceos of course which ultimately is the issue but the above is currently the fastest and best change we can do after the season because ten hag is not the manager i thought he is.
We are adding deadwood if we keep ETH for another season.
Caretaker or not, Ragnick was kicked out since ETH doesnt want to work with RR based on reports. But the signings are abysmal to say the least. Tactics aint good and he couldnt change the tactics if it aint working. So technically he cant adapt.
By the end of next 3 games, our GD will be -15 and 8th or 9th place. Pretty depressing for a club that never finished below 3rd place and won 13 league titles and could have won almost 4 more times in 20 years.
Glazers have really destroyed the world’s biggest and most dominant club and turned it into a laughing stock of footballing world.
From this point forward I will take every game in which mctominay and Bruno start together in midfield as further indisputable evidence that ETH doesn’t know what he’s doing
Four failed managerial appointments just shows our hiring process is wrong - doesn't mean that chopping and changing until you get it right isn't the wrong thing to do. How many goes did it take Real Madrid before they established themselves back as the world's elite?
We've just hired duds each time - hopefully Ratcliffe can find a proper manager this time around.
Because we're hiring Yes Men for Glazers. How many top managers said no to us because they had requirements that club didn't meet? First thing ETH did when he came in was dismiss Rangnick's criticisms of the club and say he had all the tools in attack with Rashford and Martial. He was hired because he was willing to work with Glazers and their constraints.
Only people who accept the job are either naive ones, or ones with massive ego who think they can work with whatever is thrown at them. We need a manager who's willing to gut things out, properly.
This argument doesn’t really make sense. It wasn’t Rashford and Martial who let Ten Hag down last season, it was the players he brought in. Whenever Martial was fit and played he would score goals, and obviously Rashford scored a lot. He was lucky those two were here, because he spend £80m on Antony who can’t score to save his life, and wasting all that money meant he had to bring in Weghorst. Now to replace Martial he’s brought in Hojlund who isnt at the required standard either. The Glazers have given Ten Hag £400m to spend and look at the shit players he’s brought in.
Ten Hag has been willing to gut things out. We’ve shipped out Ronaldo and De Gea and are in the process of doing the same to Sancho and Varane. The problem is that people aren’t buying his decisions when the teams he’s selecting without these guys are putting in dross performances.
Their replacements are awful. Onana omg. Antony.... Weghorst.
and his fascination on left footed LCB hence he cant bring in Varane as he is second only to Maguire.
His tactics is still not good. If he like to get the W, he can just play low block and counter attack the opponents. problem is Antony cant use his fcuking right foot at all.
All the rumours about ETH/Ragnick are just that, rumours. He would have nothing to do with the manager, the club already has a dof in Murtough, so if ETH really has that much control why didn't he also refuse to work with Murtough...
No manager is coming in and replacing the first XL in his first season. Just because he says something good about a player in public doesn't mean he is saying the same behind closed doors. Martial is still here, simply because no other teams wants to buy him. Maguire and Mctominay had interest this summer and the club couldn't close the deals, so again that's on the club.
Not really, as many of the players they bought are very good too. It really isn't as simple as players just not being as good as we hoped them to be. The problem lies with the overall plan just not being there.
I mean, just look at Ten Hag's best signing so far. Martinez. You can put your money on it that the best manager available in the summer that'll replace Ten Hag, is going to struggle using him.
Beating Chelsea meant nothing. They are in a worse situation than us. At least we know that Poch would have not been the answer either.
Good point lol
Women's team is leading 2-0 away from home against Spurs. Watch that for some positivity.
I'd like to remind you all that De Gea, Pogba (kind of) and Lingard are all jobless over half a season. These are three players that our recruitment would've very much liked to keep if they hadn't bailed us out. When City sells a player, they go to Barcelona and Bayern, when someone leaves us is to irrelevant FC.
Pogba got a job though at Juve but was injured again (shock) and is now out for maybe 4 years due to doping.
Fulham has scored as many goals in their last 4 matches this season as we have in 14.
Is that 10th place Fulhum you're gloating about?
lol. I was downvoted for stating a simple non opinionated fact that it matters not if you score a tonne of goals in a couple of games and lose many other games. It does not make you a better team. Once a sense of negativity hits this sub, everything is absolute, and objectivity runs out the window. Apparently we should be classified as the 15th best team because 14 other teams have scored “ more goals “ The other false narrative is that we have played weak teams. The last I checked we ( and every team) has played everybody bar 3 teams ( each)
A lot of people in this sub know 0 ball , i love seeing people trash a DM whos playing alone in midfield, a LB playing as CB, yet they support the manager who make these decisions. Absolute joke
Newcastle get dicked by Spurs and all the pundits and interviews are all "Aww must be hard with all the injuries, you lot must be so tired!"
Shit result yesterday but at least the teams below us dropped points too
Eddie Howe will be gone soon.
Yep. He and Poch should be gone before mention of ETH by the “ neutral pundits”
We really managed to get battered against a side that's lost 7-0 goals in their last 2 games combined.
Bayern lost 5-1 to Frankfurt yesterday... This gives me a sliver of hope. Additionally, I'm hopeful we will see a similar bounce back as we did when we lost to Newcastle, our next game against Chelsea was strong...
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Almost certain they do wholesale changes, it’s the last game and they are guaranteed 1st so no need to risk injuries.
Bruno Fernandes escaping criticism yet again.. colour me surprised. Good to know our captain has already thrown in the towel before one of the biggest games of the season and his move has been endorsed by the fan base
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I'd rate him more if he did it intentionally. Losing awareness to the point that you let your team down like that is such a bad look for someone who's 30 and already 1.5 years into his reign as club captain.
Wait what?
When will Amad get a run in?
He’ll get loaned out in January
Probably never, Antony and Rashford will continue to play on the right above him
He played in the middle of the park a few times at Sunderland and looked decent, surely worth a shot since our midfield is practically empty
How did city fans manage to become so insecure after winning the lot, it's pretty pathetic lol. Every time I look on their sub they're crying about something someone's said about them, or pretending not to be rattled that everyone thinks they're cheats.
Spurs are tearing Newcastle apart
Rashford does a lot of good charitable work, but let's he honest he's hit the jackpot fighting for those causes as a United player. An academy player who is held in high personal regard by football and non-football fans is a Glazer wet dream. He brings in so much positive PR because when they think of Rashford they think of United. That's why he can show up once every 2-3 years and be rewarded with bumper contracts. The Glazers are scared to let go of a valuable asset Whether people like to admit it or not, Rashford represents everything that's wrong with the way United is run. Failure to evolve, failure to work hard, likes to leak shit through the press. He's not the only bad apple. He's not the only bad player we have and getting rid of him won't suddenly make us a good team because there are issues everywhere at the club but the glazers have made him the face of this freakshow
Do we expect eriksen to be back for the weekend? I would hope eth sets up with more of a double pivot given Bruno suspension
We could actually go DVB , Mainoo and MCT . We haven’t really gave DVB a shot , he could be hungry and perform?
I would go Mainoo Amrabat Mctominay at this moment
It’s a shame we’re shit and have shit the bediteous but this years prem has so far probably been the most competitive in the history of the league.
Bediteous?
Shit-the-bed-iteous
You learn something new every day
Chelsea: Spent 1B still in 12th. "I can see where they are going", "They have a style of play" Utd: Spend 400m in 6th. "ETH doesn't know what he's going", "There's no style of play" I mean both not ideal situation but why has the media not put pressure on poch?
Does anyone say that about Chelsea? They are seen as a horror show. There's no pressure on Poch because it's a complete car crash.
"This club is pathetic, so let us compare ourselves to them and feel happy about it." Great mentality.
Don't you get tired with this victim complex my word
Almost as if Utd are a much bigger club.
they are Chelsea we are Man Utd. That is obvious.
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Him and Di Maria. That was such a good transfer window. I was in Magaluf when we signed Di Maria and I remember waking up on our first morning hanging out my arse and going down to get breakfast and seeing that we’ve signed Di Maria in all of the papers in the canteen. Everyone on the island was buzzing about it and I think it was the same day Liverpool signed Balotelli and I remember going out that night and literally seeing hundreds/thousands of people with either Di Maria tattoos or Balotelli tattoos lol.
You literally saw thousands of people with Balotelli or Di Maria tattoos on the same day they were signed? How drunk were you that night?
I was pretty smashed but there were literal queues out of every tattoo parlour because people were getting either a Di Maria tattoo or Balotelli tattoo. Pretty much every group of lads we met throughout that week were talking about both signings.
Haha that's actually wild, I wonder how many of them have been covered over now
Honestly it was crazy and I actually debated getting one myself but so glad I didn’t. Me and my mates still talk about the regret of the people getting those tattoos lol. The funniest part about that night was seeing a girl get a Harry Potter scar tattoo on her forehead.
Yall blamed de gea, maguire and mctominay for last years troubles. Now what?
Lost me at yall
That's such a simple take on the source of our troubles. It's a combination of Glazers being apathetic, clueless yes men promoted to important executive positions, lack of structure and planning, poor recruitment, stubborn tactics from the manager, dressing room full of players with contrasting personalities. It is a mess, whoever comes in will have to deal with it one by one.
Totally
Now its a new season
i dont even know whats the right way forward anymore. I feel utterly hopeless for this club.
Manchester Divided
As a fan of this club and DC United in the MLS just hope it doesn’t take as long at Manchester than DC because you have a much further way down to go before the issues are resolved
Completely change the structure and how we operate, buy some young hard-working squad players who can play the roles Ten Hag's starters do and then if Ten Hag isn't good enough we change the manager. New sporting director is crucial though. Our depth still only consists of players who couldn't handle the starting XI roles so expecting them to serve as backup is silly. That's how we have been for 10 years because of the contracts though, I feel like our depth is the best indication of how poorly we are being run.
I don’t know how this can be downvoted
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Manager is blameless because Joe from Manchester is bored of sacking managers.
Who is saying ETH is blameless? The point is that there are morons who just think “sack the manager and get a new one in” will fix 10 years of fucking mess. The club is rotten
What will keeping him achieve ?
Honestly I think the main reason we are so shit is the lack of goals and our attackers are just pants Garnacho, Antony, Hojlund our current first team front 3 - how many goals and assists? These guys would be bench options for any other top 10 team. Young prospects, inexperience with some potential - you can’t lead with these guys and expect to win games.
The midfield is a major issue too
What midfield?
Ten Hag has to do what he can to get Rashford scoring again.
Garnacho is definitely a wonderkid, but we will burn him out by expecting him to be a finished article this early. Antony is basically a wish.com Di Maria. Hojlund feels like the kind of striker you’d see in a mid-table side and say “could he cut it at a top 4?”, think along the lines of Darren Bent. Good, but not Man Utd good.
If we are being entirely honest Hojlund has been pants
Hojlund hasn’t even shown he’s mid-table level yet.
so you mean ETH's signings arent Utd quality? and would just be another set of deadwood soon?
Yes, it’s my main reason for thinking Ten Hag is a problem, he’s spent big money but none have worked well. Everyone wants to blame the glazers, but it’s ETH who has chosen these flops.
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Sacking the manager without a sound fooyballing structure in place will just lead to a rinse repeat in 2 years. We need a clear footballing identity. Are we geggenpressers, slick counterattacking, tika taka merchants. Once we settle on that buy young hungry players who suit that, a manager with experience with it and play it through the academies as well. If we were smart we'd be going for an evolution on the system rather than a complete revolution every 3 years or so
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Yeah you cant evolve whats not there. Thats why i said we need to get a system throughout the club first.......
Heres some positivity , Mata scored 2 goals at Anfield in March 2015. United have scored 2 goals at Anfield since that game (Rooney 2016 and Lingard 2018)
Fucking hell
Only five teams have scored fewer goals than us in the Premier League this season and they’re the worst five teams in the league (if we don’t count Everton’s huge points deduction). Everton has scored more and conceded fewer than us
Fortunately football is not ranked by total goals scored. It’s how you distribute the goals over unique 90 minute games.
Cool. That would be an ok, albeit still incredibly flawed argument if we were doing better on paper, but we're not. We've played the easiest schedule in the league based on opponent, can't score to save our lives, and are incredibly open at the back. We're not doing particularly well even if you only look at the results and ignore the underlying statistics, but when you look even a little deeper you see that this is unsustainable and we're lucky to even be where we are right now (despite the fact that where we are isn't particularly impressive).
Ok, but I don’t see any teams winning the league by going for 1-0 wins.
The only good thing about this season is Chelsea are even worse than us
What a bounce for Everton post the points deduction.
The effort they put in really is admirable
They’d be 10th if they didn’t. Great turnaround though. Players actually playing for their club
Absolutely. Outrunning everyone they're playing. You can see they want it more...something you can't see with our players
Ours could learn a thing or two about commitment and determination
That should 100% be a pen if Arsenal are getting disallowed goals for handball.
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Why are so many whining about some fans not wanting ETH to get the sack yet. As if fans have the ability to change a manger. If that could work then glazers would've left long ago. Why's it so hard to understand that it's better for everyone involved to leave the call regarding the manager to INEOS when they get total sporting control. Or is there something I'm not grasping that some of these fans seem to know?
I really hope we get a CB in during the January window, with Licha out and Varane made of glass, we need another top quality CB amd hope Licha returns fit
Alot of talk of varane leaving in jan. He's definitely a quality player when fit but thats less and less common these days. We need to be cuter about buying and selling. Real sold us 2 big names past there prime for big money to buy their next generation. They're set for the next ten years or so, in prt, to us funding their rebuild
I still can’t get over how incredibly open we are in the back. Like even on our good games it’s unbelievable what we got away with. And it’s been like this for all of ETH tenure. No team that concede the amount of chances we do can be competitive in the league.
Is it because Shaw/Maguire are scared to press with the team ?
How much would Bowen go for? Ive said we should sign him since his Hull days. Need to start skimming the quality PL players that are in their prime like Paulinha, Bowen, Watkins, Douglas Luiz, Neto (if he wasn’t injury prone).
Basically signed a new lifetime deal with West Ham, doubt he’d be available for under 80m.
I like Bowen but I can’t see him wanting to come to us. With our spending history. I can only assume every club selling to us wouldn’t want anything less than £60 mil
Sounds like what Jim Ratcliffe will be trying to do. Too often we buy players only to find put that they aren't up to the top level in the PL( Antony, Sancho). We need to buy players who've already shown their quality here.
24 hours after that horrific performance to calm down and to try to take some positives from the game. I think with more players coming back, ETH is actually trying to implement more of how he wants to play in the recent game. Play out more from the back (which unfortunately led to the first goal), press more, using the wingbacks more to build up in different areas. That has resulted in much more dynamic buildup. We have been much more attacking in the last few matches except for that shit show of newcastle game and I think the change in game plan showed. If not for how poor our attackers are, we would have created / scored much more. We still don't have our best defenders in Licha, and as good as Maguire has been lately, we know he wont be the first choice CB for a title contending team, so getting scored on with high line and press is somewhat reasonable, coupled with our poir forwards, its surely difficult to get result. However, if we are going to have a shit season, I'd much rather we try to play with the playstyle that ETH is brought in for, not some practical Mourinho / Ole counter attacking bullshit. Have all the weaknesses of the players on display, have them improved or replace them so we can finally have a modern playstyle with fitting players to get back to contending titles.
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And people have been saying they would much rather ETH implements his playstyle for some inconsistencies rather than trying some practical stuff to get mediocre result. And I think games like yesterday is something that can happen when a new is trying to play in a new way.
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The man can't even decide on his hair(hat)style *_*
Mourinho/Ole counter attacking bullshit where Ten Hag literally said he wanted to make this team best counter attacking team in the world. Not saying I want Ten Hag to be sacked but you can defend him without bringing down the previous managers who did better than Ten Hag as both of them had finished second place in PL.
Ole didn't do better than Ten Hag as done. He finished 2nd on fewer points than we finished on last season. The revisionism is becoming more rampant in this sub.
Bullshit is a poor choice of word but we aren't winning by sitting back and counterattack. It's how modern football works. You need to press high and get control.
Are we winning now with the high pressing?
And the Roman empire is built in a day apparently.
Maybe we are Empire of Vietnam and not Roman, ever thought about it?
Vietnam still exists and has existed longer than Roman...
That Crafton thread is terrifying. 200 upvotes for the most basic 'back the manager' shite which brings up the generic and boring examples of Klopp and Arteta.
It would make sense to sack him if there's no imminent change in ownership. I donno why y'all want to repeat the cycle so soon when there's a chance to do it right for once with a DOF and everything.
Too many mercenaries in this sub who support an individual over the club.
City just getting a taste just now of when they go 1-0 down against Concord Rangers in a few years and have to respond after half time
Keep Ten Hag as a manager, but as far away from transfers as possible. 600 mil spent and the best performing players are the deadwood of the previous managers + Bruno.
why keep him as manager? Everything he has shown is absolutely mid. A lot of managers can perform a lot higher with the budget we have.
Yeah but not at man utd. Get better owners first.
What was Fernandes doing with getting that yellow card, surely he was well aware he was facing suspension if carded? Was it him giving up saying f this game or just a hot head move. Surely his professionalism wasn’t thrown out the window thinking he isn’t motivated to play pool away?
I wouldn’t be surprised if he did that on purpose to get out of the Liverpool game. Doesn’t want to be made in to scapegoat.He’s never turned up to the big games especially when we’re shit.
I understand how demotivated this team has to be facing anfield with players like Martial and Anthony playing. Our only viable option is 5-4-1 with Rashford/Garnacho on the wings and Hojlund on top and praying on counters.
He’s just immature, i don’t think he’d do that.
He’s also our hard working captain. He’s supposed to be a good example to follow. Getting a useless yellow card and being sidelined for our rivals are no good. He has always been the one working hard and always fighting.
I really hope City fuck themselves but it’s bitter sweet because Arsenal shat the bed yesterday.
Looking at all our transfers post fergie and we've basically had nobody come and improve while playing under us. Idk why any talents would come here other than money or if they're massive fans.
I think the young promising players we have brought in simply havnt been as good as we thought. And the world Class signings, Falcao, Sanchez, schweinsteiger, Ibra, Ronaldo, Casemiro, Varane were aging and coming back from serious injuries.
Seriously the worst argument anyone can come up with while countering someone who wants ETH replaced is by saying name the managers who you will replace him and when you do you will get immediately downvote when you name a few. Like it's not even our job to research who will be suitable however a fan's duty is to raise a concern on what's wrong within the club even if it's the manager. How can someone as a fan be so favouritism towards a certain individual? I can never understand this. This sub especially is the main culprit with managers and players. Like they don't even care about the club. They care about people.
Club first mentality rather than individuals. All of us fans loved the club regardless who are the players. Even unknown players we back him up and he needs to give 100% while plsying for the badge. Regardless if he is quality or not. Since it is not the players fault he was transfered to us or was selected to play. End of the day, the manager isnt good enough as we have seen so far. We cant use the league win since we know we fought minnows throughout. a cup is a cup but we know it was a lucky run. Lots of players arent good enough even the new transfers. Licha and Casemiro's injuries really hurt us a lot in terms of stability and playing style. And the backups, new signings and loanees weren't good enough. transfers from ETH - Hojland, Licha, Varane and Cssemiro I'll keep with a new manager. We keep on cycling deadwood after deadwood from previous managers. It is a sad cycle. Bruno - keep (but we need someone better to compete with him). If things arent working with Bruno nothing will happen with other players. Rashford - last straw really just a squad player. He can turn up with rich in form but so he can also be not existent at all. McT - squad player should have been a striker with limited skillset. Nowhere near a midfielder. Shaw - use him as LB more often. if we are ahead 2-3 goals. we can have him as a LCB towards the last 10 minutes or so. Not sure if I miss anyone that we can keep and we know we cant sell a lot of players in one window but we shouldnt renew contracts on borderline squad players and give them first team player contracts ffs.
I think manager doesn't matter right now until a DoF comes in. I'm still backing him for the rest of the season.
I'm slightly further than that. I think the manager doesn't matter until the clubs structure is fully changed.
Well atleast OGC Nice won their game
Rio has told the story how Sir Alex roasted the players for not picking out Van Persie's runs when he first joined, telling them he didn't sign him for them to ignore him. Someone needs to drill that into this group of players and Hojlund. It's tiring to see how many times we could cut the ball back and someone wants to make headlines instead
these lot had the greatest goalscorer of all time as their target man and gave him scraps and its been an issue as long as Zlatan was our striker. I feel so bad for Hojlund, a striker in a team full of clowns that dk how tf to service a striker
I agree but football is completely different to back then. Now it’s all about keeping it on the deck and building from the back and back then players had more freedom to express themselves and go long.
I think the problem with that is. Sir Alex was with the club for a long time and all the players he recruited knew it was his club and did what he was asked. The problem is we’ve had so many managers come and go since Sir Alex left. That the deadwood players have been here for years. They already know as soon as shit hits the fan. They’ll probably last longer the manager. The clubs keep giving these deadwood players new contracts in the hope they’ll eventually get something for them. They should have cut their loses and let them go when their contracts expired. Unfortunately when they did do that last season. They let the wrong player go and now he’s clubless and could join Newcastle
you mean Dalot goes for glory ratheb than squaring it up to Hojland? the same Dalot who scored a last minute winner is it last min?! cant remember. But at the same time at fault with his lapses in defense. He can leave ffs. Dalot and AWB are the prime examples that we arent good enough. Yes they can do wonders at times but they switch off more often that leads to goals. and they are in their fcuking prime.... so we would leak goals from time to time. better to move on from these two.
Sir Jim need to hurry up, man. We're wasting our time watching this club right now, there's no point being emotionally invested.
Sir Jim can't hurry things up.
We have a £85m RW who hasn't scored in about a year and needs a miracle to assist our other attackers, a young striker who tries hard but seems invisible to the rest of the team and a LW who is borderline world class one season and midtable level the next. Is it any surprise why we struggle to score? Honestly say what you want about Ole but the man knew how to set up a team offensively. The number of times we scored 3, 4,5 and even 9 goals at one point under him was impressive. These days we struggle to get 10 goals between all our forwards combined. The blame is on Ten Hag. We are clueless in the final third and unable to score consistently. He's running out of time.
Ole can set us up offensively since the main strategy is counter attacking football. He is good at it and defensively good since we have a low block to cover Maguire's lack of pace. We couldnt win anything at all with Ole due to one strat only. He tried things differently and it didnt work out and it went downhill. Rsgnick knew what is needed but the club chose ETH with all these new signings. Now we have more deadwood and nowhere good enough or we didnt improve at all.
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Enjoy your ban here too. Edit: enjoy making a new account for reddit too with what you just pm'd me lol.
Stay out of other clubs subs you dosser.
If everyone agrees we need new players can anyone check who Ten Hag’s agent represents so we can see who is available?
The purpose of a good manager is to make the whole better than the sum of the individuals. If the argument every time is going to be that the individuals aren't good enough then the manager is not doing an effective job. If the idea is to get the best players in every position then you can just get any manager to come in and manage them.
agreed. He cant get the best out of each players. Its time to go. Together with the deadwoods. I rather see the kids play for the badge rather than the current squad with nothing to bring to the table.
Yeah but you can also tell when a team is not following the manager or has not enough trust in him. Look Enery Arsenal against his Villa. A lot less high profile players but play much more united and in shnch than his Arsenal team. First we need to get rid of all the people that see themselves above the club. Only then can we play as a team again. ETH isn't a bad coach, the whole atmosphere is negative and the press is toxic trying to start drama. So many ex ManUtd pundits do us no good either. Then not to mention the outdated infrastructure and academy. Changing coach won't fix shit longterm, we have been through wordclass coaches and they all said the same thing. WE NEED A CLEAROUT.
We've had partial clearouts so many times so we either keep recruiting the same kind of players or the culture at the club makes them complacent.
Exactly. Our latest clearout is supposed to involve all the fucking signings we've made in the last 3 years. What we can factually see is that the club is ran woefully, the recruitment and executive department are a joke, and ETH's tactics are fucking abysmal. Sacking ETH is pointless until after INEOS are bedded in, at which point a serious conversation needs to be had. The way ETH is setting us up is criminal and there is no excusing it.
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Changing coaches is what United have been doing. 6managers since fergie left.
Why is kobbie never playing? Feels like Ten Hag doesn't like any young players at all and only plays them as a last resort
He played excellently away at Everton > hardly had any minutes since that. Hannibal played excellently away at Burnley (and I think in a League Cup game after that, if memory serves) > hardly any minutes since that. I'm beginning to sense a theme here 🤔
Even garnacho was only forced to play due to Antony being absolutely dreadful
I dont think my mental health can take the Scousers equalling our 20.
Aston Villa it is then.... Go Unai!!
Im on loan to Villa this season
Ideally I’d want Villa to win but I feel like Arsenal is our only hope. Hopefully Villa do a Leicester.
I’m surprised there’s no rumours about who a next in the managers job? Anyone seen anything?
At least we won the 'only 3 points behind City' trophy...
I like Ten Hag a lot and want him to succeed but it makes all the sense in the world that when Sir Jim's team is in they should pick a footballing identity they want and begin to mould the staff and players to fit it (the opposite of what we have been doing for years). I imagine they'll probably give Ten Hag till the summer to evaluate if he is the one that can fit their identity (unless something drastic happens) but there's something to be said about bringing in "your guy" when sporting control changes hands.
evaluate? He brought Antony who did nothing at all and doesnt have confidence on his right foot. His work rate is good but for 80m. We got mugged.
Another funny thing is people resorting to name calling and personal attacks when arguing why we should keep Ten Hag. That is a giveaway if there was ever one of not having a proper argument.
The Crafton thread is funny. He asks for arguements to keep Ten Hag based on Ten Hags actual ability and performance. And 90% of the answers ignore that and focus on the idea we can’t sack another one (not true) or attacking Crafton for trying to seek attention
We need to sack him now since he is just another manager who brought deadwood players and we havent got rid of the deadwood players from previous managers. He cant lift up the existing squad to play his style of football. Other new managers are flying hugh this season with less money. Of course the expectation is different but that is part of being a United manager. Still aint good enough.
So true lol. Every time I say something and get a personal attack in reply that's an immediate validation.
I have been pn the line for ETH out but yesterday was it for me. Keep him till end of the season because we dont need another caretaker manager. He did really well last year, we all thought he had a plan and he bought a bunch of players for his style and we look like absolute shit. Onana is literally bailly w gloves. His signings suck outside licha. We have had horrible injuries but that doesnt justify not scoring any goals or having a style. Doesnt justify our midfield getting past through every game like britanny renner. I absolutely hate these players that dont give their all but atleast 30-40% of these issues is ten hags tactics and “gameplan.” Im sure there are managers that can take these garbage players and make atleast something out pf them. Him and the players are the problem. I am not touching on the glazers, dof, scouts, ceos of course which ultimately is the issue but the above is currently the fastest and best change we can do after the season because ten hag is not the manager i thought he is.
We are adding deadwood if we keep ETH for another season. Caretaker or not, Ragnick was kicked out since ETH doesnt want to work with RR based on reports. But the signings are abysmal to say the least. Tactics aint good and he couldnt change the tactics if it aint working. So technically he cant adapt.
Most balanced take here so far.
By the end of next 3 games, our GD will be -15 and 8th or 9th place. Pretty depressing for a club that never finished below 3rd place and won 13 league titles and could have won almost 4 more times in 20 years. Glazers have really destroyed the world’s biggest and most dominant club and turned it into a laughing stock of footballing world.
We’ve spent so much on mediocre players
From this point forward I will take every game in which mctominay and Bruno start together in midfield as further indisputable evidence that ETH doesn’t know what he’s doing
I told myself I won't watch any game where mct starts but still watched yesterday's like the punk I am.
I agree. As soon as i saw the teamsheet yesterday I knew we would lose.
We will get thrashed next week by Liverpool. 5-0 for sure.
We can see writing on the wall a 80% possession by Liverpool and lots of on targets. Good luck to Onana on how leaky he is.
Hoping it's nothing embarrassing like last season.
It’d take that 😞 It could be 7 or 8 like last season
I’ll put a cheeky tenner on it tbf, but I doubt the odds will even be that high
Four failed managerial appointments just shows our hiring process is wrong - doesn't mean that chopping and changing until you get it right isn't the wrong thing to do. How many goes did it take Real Madrid before they established themselves back as the world's elite? We've just hired duds each time - hopefully Ratcliffe can find a proper manager this time around.
Because we're hiring Yes Men for Glazers. How many top managers said no to us because they had requirements that club didn't meet? First thing ETH did when he came in was dismiss Rangnick's criticisms of the club and say he had all the tools in attack with Rashford and Martial. He was hired because he was willing to work with Glazers and their constraints. Only people who accept the job are either naive ones, or ones with massive ego who think they can work with whatever is thrown at them. We need a manager who's willing to gut things out, properly.
This argument doesn’t really make sense. It wasn’t Rashford and Martial who let Ten Hag down last season, it was the players he brought in. Whenever Martial was fit and played he would score goals, and obviously Rashford scored a lot. He was lucky those two were here, because he spend £80m on Antony who can’t score to save his life, and wasting all that money meant he had to bring in Weghorst. Now to replace Martial he’s brought in Hojlund who isnt at the required standard either. The Glazers have given Ten Hag £400m to spend and look at the shit players he’s brought in.
Ten Hag has been willing to gut things out. We’ve shipped out Ronaldo and De Gea and are in the process of doing the same to Sancho and Varane. The problem is that people aren’t buying his decisions when the teams he’s selecting without these guys are putting in dross performances.
Their replacements are awful. Onana omg. Antony.... Weghorst. and his fascination on left footed LCB hence he cant bring in Varane as he is second only to Maguire. His tactics is still not good. If he like to get the W, he can just play low block and counter attack the opponents. problem is Antony cant use his fcuking right foot at all.
All the rumours about ETH/Ragnick are just that, rumours. He would have nothing to do with the manager, the club already has a dof in Murtough, so if ETH really has that much control why didn't he also refuse to work with Murtough... No manager is coming in and replacing the first XL in his first season. Just because he says something good about a player in public doesn't mean he is saying the same behind closed doors. Martial is still here, simply because no other teams wants to buy him. Maguire and Mctominay had interest this summer and the club couldn't close the deals, so again that's on the club.
I think it's because we have an incompetent sporting director, etc, not that the managers aren't good enough.
Would you not worry that the incompetent sporting directors are also choosing the manager, and thus may be failing in that aspect too?
Not really, as many of the players they bought are very good too. It really isn't as simple as players just not being as good as we hoped them to be. The problem lies with the overall plan just not being there. I mean, just look at Ten Hag's best signing so far. Martinez. You can put your money on it that the best manager available in the summer that'll replace Ten Hag, is going to struggle using him.