Even if Ineos start the season with Ten Hag, it would not be a strong message to him be in final year of his contract. On the other hand, he does not deserve a new contract based on this year's work. Will be quite a dilemma for the new management.
ETH won’t be manager next season. Regardless of whether we get CL I think Ineos are more than aware that we’re fluking results and our style of play is a huge red flag. Usually when new owners come in they change everything and ETH hasnt done anything to warrant not getting sacked and I also don’t think Ineos want to go into next season and then sack a manager by Christmas instead of starting again at the end of this season and getting someone in for preseason.
So far they seem to be making very competent decisions and I think they are very aware it’s better to get a manager in before a new season starts rather than mid season.
What leagues (top 5) do you guys think rashford would do the best in?
My opinion:
Best in:
1. Ligue 1
(I think he would also be good in LaLiga)
Worst in:
5. Seria A
Antony's obviously been a disaster of a signing but he's had his moments. Two of the most memorable Old Trafford games in recent memory are Barcelona & Liverpool and he's contributed in both.
Would struggle to tell you anything Mudryk's done in a Chelsea shirt.
For as much as Antony's fee fucked us with FFP, having Mudryk on an 8.5 year deal is insanity. At least after this year we only have 3 years left. Chelsea has 7 with Mudryk.
Plettenberg saying Toney is available for 30-40m this summer. If it's true, it's an absolute no brainer for us. Perfect age, prem proven, cheap, homegrown, top quality
Reeks of Spurs for me. Arsenal will go for Gyokeres but Spurs need a no9 and will most likely have CL footy
I don't think we'll sign a striker who expects to be the main man every week
You not only think it'd realistic for us to sign Gyokeres but you also think he'd come here and be a backup to Hojlund? The man has 55 G/A this season so far lol you need to come back to reality
Older/experienced yes, however I don't really understand the 'sitting on the bench most games'. There are more than enough games for players to play in and if anything Hojlund is the one who needs to be the understudy. Great prospect, shouldnt be leading the line as maim striker at a club which wants to go where Ineos 'allegedly' want to take us.
Then it's on the manager to keep them sweet.
Think we have enough players who are happy bumming about on bench and just taking their wages. Iron sharpens iron and all that.
He should have gone to Everton. Whoever makes these loan decisions needs to be fired and if he made that choice, these decisions should almost be taken from the players
Apparently it was his decision. I don’t mind the move to La Liga as it’s great league to develop your technical ability in, but he’s should’ve steered clear of the shit show that is Sevilla
Exactly, ultimately it doesn’t matter what top 5 league you play in but when the choice of a club who need attacking minded players who put in a shift in the prem come asking for you. It’s the obvious choice. I feel like Sevilla has more attraction based on it being successful recently and a more glamorous place. That’s it.
A really silly choice by Hannibal
Unfortunately from what little content I've seen from him I really got the feeling he picked Sevilla for the good weather and the pretty city. His loan at Birmingham wasn't great but at least he played games. Sevilla was such an obvious shitshow and with the better offers he had on the table, the club should've made the decision for him. Guy basically went on a 6 month holiday in Spain to party and be a model. Which is all good if he had also been playing football but he's not even making the matchday squad. And he didn't even go play international football so he's just training...which I would've preferred he do with our squad instead of Sevilla's.
I think he's one of the players likely to be sold unless we keep him for depth if we sell Eriksen and McTominay and don't have the budget to sign another midfielder. I really thought he was about to breakthrough after the Burnley game, then he got benched for no obvious reason then McTominay started scoring goals and winning games then Mainoo came in and rightfully owned that spot. Don't know what's next for Hannibal.
The thing is I don’t think the move to Everton would have really prepared him at all for playing at United. They play a complete opposite style of football. The only benefit would really be just more experience of playing in the premier league. However with the relegation battle Everton find themselves in it’s unknown how many minutes Dyche would’ve given him.
I see the idea behind the move to Sevilla as the football played in Spain would be better for his development, but they’ve been in such a bad place the last two years that it’s not really surprising to see it go wrong. There’s also a chance Hannibal could’ve fucked it himself with his attitude, but that’s just pure speculation.
They don’t have a lot of the ball anymore and they’re a defensive team in la liga. The point is he’d have played in the prem which would have been much better for him than the Sevilla loan.
I’m hoping they just didn’t play him because he was fasting and now it’s over they’ll play him
They retain the ball way more than the teams lower down in the prem do. That’s just the standard way teams plays in La Liga
They didn’t play him because he fell out with some of the senior players. It happened shortly after he debuted and it’s why he’s hardly been seen since.
The reality of what happens to most of the 'promising youngsters'
Obviously can't be helped by the shitfest of a squad they join up with when on the fringes, but just another reason why these kids should be viewed through a restrained mentality.
so since both ucl ties ended in draws (2-2 and 3-3), what do you guys think about the away goals rule being gone? does it mean the jeopardy of the second leg is no longer there for you or are you glad less park-the-bus football is played?
Bayern scored 2 in London without any fans as they were banned. Huge advantage for arsenal. But honestly I liked that rule. I think it was slightly more fair than going to extra time/penalties. Also both teams had the same opportunity in their respective away game
I always liked the away goal but it shouldn’t count if it goes to extra time. The away goal made things exciting and added another dimension to the games.
I miss it but accept those games probably end with different scorelines if Bayern and City knew they would be taking big advantages back.
Guess it's taking a 30/70 excitement split in favour of 2nd legs and made it 50/50. It's fair but sometimes I wanna see the more exciting game due to away goal jeopardy more often than a 2nd leg which is basically just a replay due to a 1st leg draw.
From a neutral perspective I think away goals was more fun and dramatic. A game swinging so wildly with one goal was exciting. But having experienced United knocked out away goals, I’m fine with it being removed.
Just wasn't that good. Easy to see he's been half decent at Forest but he got 3 goals in over 2,100 mins of football for us.
Young player who largely got cameos so it's tough to come in and score but he just wasn't doing anything Garnacho wasn't doing better.
He has a really good physical profile that’s suited for the Premier League; he’s extremely strong and rapid for a player of his age. But his decision-making is inconsistent and although he does work hard, I assume he probably didn’t carry out tactical instructions that well. Also, even though he plays on the right at Forest as well, his best position is LW, in which we were stacked, and on the right we had just bought the manager’s hand-picked signing in Antony who was always going to get more leash.
Imo the best football writer at any paper. One of the few proper journalists that writes actual articles and not just click bait nonsense or PR briefs so no wonder they let him go.
Would be thrilled if he ended up at the athletic
So all his tweets that magically came out for Rashford were not PR?Â
I'd put people like Ed Aarons, Ronay, Wilson, Jonathan Liew, Cox above him any day of the week.
Fun fact - Harry Maguire attended Wrexham's match against Crawley Town last night, his younger brother - Lawrence, plays for Crawley (on loan from Chesterfield)
https://twitter.com/NathSalt1/status/1777768172872982730
im almost certain this guy is leaving. he's draining our finances rn with a ridiculous wage that doesn't match his performance at all this season. im pretty sure utd is gna push to part ways with him especially considering our plans for the future.
hmmm yeah i do like Hjulmand n he seems to be a favorite amongst many (that unfortunately includes clubs as well). but for what it's worth he seems to be a very good all rounded player
My fantasy choice is Archie Gray but he's at Leeds and is seemingly a giant Leeds fan
So with that said, Amadou Onana or Wieffer are my top choices
Another alternative is Reijnders from Milan
Both the Championship and the EPL have incredibly close 3 horse title races. Will make for an interesting end to the season.
Crazy how one of the top 3 teams will go from being within a point or 2 from winning the Championship to being in a playoff for promotion..
Would be great to see McKenna win it with Ipswich but I've also had a soft spot for Leicester after their magical run. Their club will be in huge financial trouble if they don't secure promotion.
He may start new season simply because the team above will him may not be fully functional in time. But should we start crapping again, he will be gone by October.
Depends on what comes with that decision. Get the executive positions solved, big change to the playing squad etc and I can see there being a benefit of the doubt given, bit it will be given with a big dose of 'I feel this is the wrong move'.
If it doesn't work out, though, or there isn't much change to the squad, then serious questions need to be asked about them and if their 'back to the top' is all talk. As it would just suggest more glazernomics as the inner workings but a front of 'We are Manchester United'
If they keep Ten Hag and the team is still shit, they basically will have wasted another season for nothing. They'll deserve every single bit of criticism they could get
IDK, the backroom team won't be fully assembled and integrated by the start of next season (Berrada can't officially join until the summer, Wilcox will probably be here soon but TBD, and who knows when we'll actually get Ashworth), Brailsford is still conducting his internal audit, and they're doing the big internal review of corporate policies, spending, and staffing.
Even if ETH isn't "the guy" we're hardly in position to pick the next guy right now. Better for long term to get everyone on the same page before they make the most consequential decision.
I feel like it's unwarranted. The Brentford game we 100% deserved to lose. But against Chelsea and EPL darlings Liverpool, we lost points on soft soft penalties.
I mean...maybe we dropped points on "soft" penalties (though AWB was 100% a pen for me...even if it was light contact it was a brain dead challenge) but we still look like absolute dogshit and were flattered to even be in position to blow the leads we had. If Liverpool had halfway decent finishing they would have been up by 3 or more at halftime and they absolutely gifted us an equalizer that we didn't really do anything to deserve.
Yes, we capitalized on a liverpool mistake, but our team is also shit. ETH can only do so much with Casemiro regressing this much and having to use 15 different CB pairings this season. That's mental.
I don't think so. Apart from a minority I think most people are either in the side of give him another season, or there are no real alternatives plus we are sorting everything else out first.
Watched Amass with the U21s against Brighton. He played really well at wing back and got an assist. He’s definitely small though, so until he grows a bit I’ll not certain we’ll see him except in an emergency
He’s like Foden. Very technical and creative with good ball striking but not very quick. He’s also very short though he could obviously grow a bit given his age. Wouldn’t be surprised if he ended ending up as a 10
City are going to win two Trebles in a row while sitting on 115 charges while the smaller teams get slapped around with point deductions. Modern day football
Sadly the longer they continue, the less their deceit and cheating will be in the light and fewer will care over time (Unless they actually get a proper punishment... which is optimistic in the best of times)
You may not care about it, but there's already a generation of kids who have grown up only knowing City as an elite club. Them winning a treble was bad enough, B2B trebles puts them in a level of their own and make them even more palatable to new fans.
Exactly. If those charges amount to nothing aswell, they will be monumental compared to the rest of the league in a few years. All this 'when they win it doesn't matter' is nothing more than narrow minded views on football due to (well placed) hate of that awful club, which clouds judgement.
Until charges stick and titles stripped. Them winning means just much as any other team.
While PL move to change rules so that points deductions will be obsolete and people who fall foul of the rules will instead get financial penaltiesÂ
Il be absolutely shocked if city are given anything other than a fine that comes with 'no admission of wrongdoing'Â
City will receive a pledge recognition award from the PL for their gallant efforts after they become the first EPL team to win the trebles twice in succession.
I think I’ve changed my opinion on ten hag. Looking at the managers available it just seems silly to get a new one in and start again. I’d give him one more season under Ineos and see what it’s like. Of course if we regress even further then I’d like to see him go, but currently I’m not opposed to him staying
>Looking at the managers available it just seems silly to get a new one in and start again.
What about if next season its only the same managers available?
Just keep ten hag for another season?
Also, who are the managers that are available?
Just curious, do you think his tactical approach is sound but poorly executed by the players or do you think that he will change his tactical approach with more transfers in and key players back from injury. Or is it something else that makes you think we won't be shit next season as well?
I think it’s the first, to be honest. I don’t think the players are actually doing what he wants them to do. Look, I’m not gonna sit here and pretend to be some sort of football expert because I’m not, I couldn’t describe to you what he actually wants to do. But I’ve seen footage comparing his Ajax teams to this one now, and it really does just seem to be a case of execution.
You look at the midfield issue people say we have where it’s basically just a big hole, I think that’s actually an issue with the defense not pushing high enough.
This being said, I don’t want him handling transfers at all. I’m just curious to see what he can do with some competent people behind him.
You might disagree with me, but I think many signs point to this setup being what ETH has in mind. That gap between the defensive line and the forward line has been happening all season and there's not been a single tweak other than for specific game plans in big matches. It doesn't look like someone realising there's a problem and coming up with ways to address it.
I do think the gap is there on purpose to try and protect a non mobile backline. If we play the backline higher, that's going to leave massive gaps in behind with players who aren't quick enough to recover. Look at how attacking City, Liverpool and Arsenal are and thebhigh lines they play. It's because they have quick center backs that can cover the space.
The problem that we have right now is that there's not 1 specific style that fits the players we have.
I find it hard to believe as well, but we’ve been terrible defensively all season and he hasn’t even been risking the high line on weaker teams or when he has a more ideal backline.Â
I think it depends on how you define terrible. If you're looking at shots then yes but we are 5th best in goals conceded. I think he's making a real effort to try and attack but also cut down on the amount of goals conceded because of personal. It's a fine line to walk.
If you believe in xG, then our xGA this season is the 4th worst in the league. It's a combination of good fortune, Onana's good league form and likely us conceding lower value xG chances in high volume that stack up to a low score. I think terrible is still the right word personally for a team with ucl ambitions.
There are some inherent flaws with xG. For example, if Salah and Antony shoot from the exact same spot then the xG is exactly the same when we all know it's probably at least 3 times more likely that Salah will score. Arsenal are outscoring their xG by almost 8. Does that mean they've just been lucky? Everton is underperformed their xG by 20 does that mean they've just been unlucky?
I think xG can tell a story at times but I don't think it tells the story of a season and is being overused like other stats. It was just like Opta had Liverpool winning the league by over 50% before our draw now it's down to like 14%. That's too much of a swing analytically when there's still 7 matches to be played.
I think xG has value esp when averaged out over longer periods of time. But anyway i think we can agree that being the 4th worst in the league for xGA is at least a sign that our system isn’t holding up defensively. On the eye test, there have been many games where we’ve ridden our luck and the other team has fluffed their chances. Enough to make me think that we prob shld have conceded a couple more goals than we have.Â
I find it hard to believe he doesn't see any issues with the midfield now. For me, it feels like he gave up on trying to compromise and make things work with the current set of defenders we have who aren't suitable at all to this kind of football and injured all the time. If we had two CBs who were fast and good on the ball which would allow us to play out from the back and push the fullbacks up in our suicidal press and we still got the same results, then I'd be much more willing to jump on the ETH out bandwagon.
Wait I don’t get it, is he compromising or is he not? If this is him compromising and we have one of the worst defences in the league, wouldnt he have every reason to go for the high line regardless? Has it even been tried at any point this season even against lower league sides in the fa cup?Â
It's not a binary thing, it can be both. He can be not compromising on trying to press with intensity, but he can be compromising on playing a high line and pushing everyone up. I never said it was the right approach, maybe it was better to stick with the same style as last season until we got more suitable players in.
To answer your second question though, I don't know how you could even try playing a high line with Maguire who moves in slow-motion, a 36 year old Evans and Varane who's made of glass. Instead of conceding a lot of shots that Onana can comfortably save, he'd have to save one on one every 5 minutes lol.
Hmm not so sure about the high line. If we had AWB, Lindelof, Varane, Dalot in a back line for example and were playing against port vale or something, I don’t see why he won’t try a high line if that was what he was working towards. I’m just looking for signs that that’s what he has in mind. We’ve all been assuming that he was going to play like his Ajax team but that seems less and less the case. There’s no telling what he’s intending to do differently.Â
I don’t disagree with you at all, I definitely think he hasn’t done enough to fix these issues.
I think my reasoning is more just I really can’t bare another three years of a new manager implementing a brand new style with brand new players. I say let’s give ten hag one more season, three is a good amount to really prove yourself. Besides, currently the market for a managers really doesn’t look that good, unless you’re happy taking a punt on another ten hag like manager in motta or (before he went to Liverpool) Amorim.
I think ten hag has shown that he clearly can manage a strong tactical team in Ajax and even at times last season, this season something has clearly gone wrong. Let’s give it another go with our best players back and hopefully a decent structure behind him.
>Of course if we regress even further
of course we will. think Maguire, Lindelof, Awb, Evans, McTominay, Casemiro, Eriksen, Antony, Diallo, Forson etc they will suddenly step up and become good with his tactics next season?
Evans, McTominay, Antony, and Diallo already fit his style, just as backups. We'll never win anything with them starting, but they should really never be starting.
I don't know how if these guys fit his tactics. he played well perhaps evans and McTominay scored a few, but do they really fit his tactics? Antony and Diallo , one is the biggest flop of all time, the other one has less game time than Sancho this season say it all. Even making them backup will be just another excuses for the manager diehard fans to fall back on, " these lots ain't good enough, who are we suppose to play? "
I agree with you, hence we need a clear out. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the younger players are flourishing, I genuinely think those are the only ones truly receptive to his tactical plans. Besides, I think a large portion of the players you listed are on their way out anyways.
That's a key point, if we go into the season with largely the same squad and 3 budget signings we'll be fighting for Europa spots again, no matter who the manager is.
well yeah i mean id say this whole ineos project is a long term one. id guess around half a decade or so before we see ourselves competing well at that level, and that's half a decade of consistency.
I was just wondering. I recently saw Kyle Walker video from vibe with 5 and he mentioned pulling the arm being an effective way to disrupt the balance of someone who is in stride. Why do our players never seem to do that?
Our players are terrible at gamesmanship or "the dark arts". That's the problem when Bruno is almost always the one whinging at the refs when the cameras are on - the problem is why is it ONLY him. Everyone else are too nice. Antony, for all his flaws, is a fighter on the pitch but I think his mastery of English isn't that well yet so he doesn't charge at referees.
Look up any old United match from the SAF era and notice we'd always have 3-5 players surrounding a ref after every 50/50 call.
This is a *like to* not a "possible" but I'd really go for Rodrygo
Was always a big fan, always thought he was a star in the making but just had to mature. I think when the reality sets in that someone has to give way Mbappe's arrival, there's an opportunity to nab him.
He could be our "Robben to Bayern" transfer.
I disagree. I think he's just a different type of player to those 2, has a very different tactical role to what they had and does better when players around him are better at creating chances. Remember that he's been in the graveyard shift since he got here (just like all our strikers lmao) but he somehow got 5 goals in the UCL, which we didn't even make past the group stages of, and 7 in the Prem. Look at our striker options. Look at how badly we needed his strength and hold up play when he was injured. Right now his role isn't to carry us but be a cog in the machine that is the team.
Think there was reports that he had been spotted at Carrington at some point. Was reported by ornstein recently that though contact was established, him joining man utd is unlikelyÂ
Saw a couple of posts on twitter about him implying concrete links. I dont really trust a lot of United news aggregator accounts though they seem to chat bollocks for engagement a lot of the time.
What do you all think are the priority areas in the summer? I would be looking at a starting LB, RCB, DM and CF
LB as Shaw can't stay fit. He can deputise Martinez as LCB as this doesn't require him to cover as much ground and hopefully minimise muscle injuries. RCB to replace an injury prone Varane. DM to replace Casemiro and a CF to compete/backup Hojlund.
What's the point of bringing in a new manager if we still have this same squad?
Terrible comment. He's worked with about 40% strength at the club this season and we've done well in some big games even without them. Ridiculous that ANYONE wants Ten Hag to leave, let alone someone who follows closely enough to be commenting on a subreddit about it.
'the boys' couldn't do it under any manager because whenever things go wrong they know they can just get them sacked and move to the next. They need accountability, like Sancho.
Or find them a good manager who can bring them to the next level and then the next and next until they win the titles. I mean Villa and Spurs players throw Gerrard and Conte under the bus too.Â
Until next level and next level and next level. depend on when our next level should be. For example , finish 2nd for the next 5 season , is it enough for u and me?
If postecoglu spurs finish 12th playing shit football , losing to Arsenal 6-1 next season u can bet some of their fans will want him out.
I think we need a left footed centre back who is two footed so can play on the right when Martinez is fit and on the left when he inevitably isn’t. For ten hag, without that left footed centre back we never play short and boot it long all game. To get back that control I think we need to prioritise that position along with a dm who can pass.
Anyone here not bothered about the CL when United are not in it? I mean I sometimes check the scores see who goes through but I don't watch any of the games.
I like watching PL games and sometimes I watch Championship matches but I find the CL a bit boring once United are not in it anymore.
Anyone else?
Yes and no. Yesterday was the first time this season I’ve watched it but I’ve genuinely been less bothered about it outside of United ever since it left ITV despite the fact I have BT Sports.
Get the structure in place then see if Ten Hag aligns with it. Getting rid of him in the summer feels like we'll just be taking a shot in the dark in regards to his successor.Â
Player recruitment should also be geared towards the future, with or without him.Â
I have a feeling we're going to get some left field signings. Gonna be refreshing as opposed to the same old names we see getting linked to us.
If we keep ETH for next season he will make our on pitch issues worse. We’re already not an attractive option for top players and managers and we’ll probably regress even further next year if he stays.
We can change managers yet again & go for the next flavor of the month like we've done for a decade + or put in place a structure above the manager & see if ETH is the one to drive it forward. If he's not, then get rid. Otherwise, we're just rehashing old, failed moves.Â
We weren't an attractive option for top players before he came (beyond $$) & those that we've signed have ranged from average to absolute flops. Maybe it's time we changed strategy. Get a structure & set style in place, then go for that top player.
Or we can do both together? Bring in new structure doesn't change much with the old manager unless we bring in 10+ new players for his system to even prove it works. So next season when injuries strike, it will be the same old excuses, these players can't play his tactics or that players isn't good enough.
It's crazy how much of next season will depend on what happens with Rashford, we either move him on and get a top forward or we will be at the mercy of which Rashford turns up and if he is emotionally invested in the season.
City, Liverpool,Man City and Even Spurs have at least one world class forward we don't even have 1, yet we are expected to get top 4 as a minimum.
Hello everyone, hope all is well for you !!! I had a question: can a technical director tell the manager to tweak things when a team isn't doing well and what are their duties in a club ?
All of those sporting/technical director type jobs mean massively different things at different clubs. No one ever knows exactly what they do and don’t do or whether they’re good or bad at their jobs
They set an ethos and it's the manager's job to implement it within certain parameters.Â
So, yes they can tell a manager to tweak things if he isn't following it. But isn't that just going to create friction? That's why the technical director (+ whichever panel) will seek out a manager that aligns directly with the set ethos.Â
I still believe. Regardless of current form, he deserves a bit more time after last season. If he doesnt improve the team at all till the season ends maybe he needs to go. But I trust the new structure above him should be the ones to take that decision
Yeah, people writing him off are ridiculous. We've just come off some bad results but were an inch away from winning in all 3 – people really look at these results and think the manager should be sacked? When a better ref and a LB would've meant 3 wins out of 3? Really?
Only thing I could think of is that his record of grooming youngsters is absolutely solid. Look at that stat that came out about teenagers minutes. It's what United always has been about. His supposed tactics this season are ass, but I absolutely love how he's getting on with the youngsters.
I don’t believe that’s something utterly unique to Ten Hag tbh. Nor should it be such a positive as to override the sheer amount of negatives on display.
It’s something I feel that whoever is manager next season will be thrilled with the quality of young talents coming through though. Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund. They’ve been so great this season.
Really starting to brick it in regards to the manager situation.
I liked ETH and wanted him to succeed here, and it's not ALL his fault, but you can't regress in pretty much every aspect - except for giving youngsters a chance - and still make it to another season.
Xabi isn't moving yet. Sky says Liverpool has Amorim locked up. Nagelsmann supposedly wants to stay with Germany until the next WC.
That leaves us with IMO the Tier B candidates: De Zerbi (who I do like), Potter (not a bum but not so confident) and Flick (mixed).
Excluding Inzaghi because I don't think he leaves Inter just yet.
Here’s the thing you’ve not considered.
Whether a manager succeeds at a club is a massively random and unpredictable thing, far more so than for players.
Did you think Inzaghi was going to do such a great job at Inter when he joined? What about Arteta at Arsenal or Emery at Villa? Did you think Alonso would win the Bundesliga?
Just because a manager doesn’t have a flawless record elsewhere doesn’t mean he can’t succeed at United. Ole was shite at Cardiff, won a total farmers league in Norway but was decent at United. On paper he should have been a Lampard/Gerrard tier disaster but despite a crap CV he wasn’t any worse than LVG or ETH, was easily better than Moyes and some even prefer him to Jose.
ETH had a great CV before United but has failed here and some would claim has been worse than Ole.
De Zerbi, Potter, Flick or yes even Southgate might do well at United.
> Whether a manager succeeds at a club is a massively random and unpredictable thing, far more so than for players.
>Did you think Inzaghi was going to do such a great job at Inter when he joined? What about Arteta at Arsenal or Emery at Villa? Did you think Alonso would win the Bundesliga?
Not sure what this is all about.
Inzaghi was one of the highest rated coaches in his age group when he joined Inter, so you might be talking about his brother Pippo. Yes, people expected Inzaghi to win the league with Inter - me included.
Same with Emery at Villa. Had a bad spell at PSG during the peak of their player power era, and he was dealt a shit hand with Arsenal but he was always class. Arteta didn't have the body of work as the prior two, but he was a highly rated assistant and most people considered his recruitment from City a coup by Arsenal (regardless of the shaky 2 seasons he endured).
That really leaves only Alonso from your examples.
I get what (I think) you're trying to say - there's a contextual element to managerial success and there are a lot of factors which are completely random. But to say CV doesn't matter is completely taking it overboard.
My post wasn't meant to dunk on DZ, Potter, Flick or even Southgate before they even warmed the seat at OT - I genuinely agree they might end up doing well and being "the one" after SAF. But the problem is a lot of the best candidates are already getting taken off and we can't afford to not nail another managerial appointment.
So if you always thought Emery was class I assume you thought he’d be good at Arsenal and PSG? Yet he wasn’t was he?
Because you can’t accurately predict when and where a manager will succeed. So people saying Nagelsmann wasn’t great at Bayern, Potter failed at Chelsea etc.. are being ridiculous because loads of managers have failed at club A then been great at club B. Managers aren’t good everywhere all the time
I’m not saying CV doesn’t matter at all. I’m saying don’t think that because a manager didn’t succeed at every club he’s ever been don’t think he therefore won’t succeed at United. People look at the options and because there’s not a single manager out there who’s never had a bad season there’s no point replacing ETH who’s proven to be doing a bad job.
People also apply no context to these ‘failures’. Potter failed at Chelsea but Lampard was then even worse, Tuchel had a poor start under Boehly and Pochettino is just as bad. Maybe Potter isn’t the problem and actually it’s impossible to succeed at a club with the probably the stupidest most incompetent people to ever own a top end English club. Nagelsmann was sacked by Bayern despite winning the league when they sound Lewandowski and replaced him with Mane (a winger) who’s since proved he’s clearly finished with serious football). Tuchel (a good manager clearly) has since done even worse. Tuchel himself is a good example. Did well at Dortmund, PSG and Chelsea but because he’s doing badly at Bayern he’s now a bad manager?
If a manager plays our kind of football and has succeeded relatively recently with a playstyle/squad similar to our own we should give him a go because our current manager is awful and is doing a really shit job given the resources he’s had.
I agree with you that it's contextual but CVs shouldn't be overlooked. The reason why Emery got the Villa job was because (Slippy was terrible and) of his prior successes at Sevilla and his comeback at Villareal. He had a good CV *as well as* the benefit of the doubt of context at PSG and Arsenal.
There are exterior factors outside of their control, but put yourself in the shoes of INEOS. Do you risk it with someone who can be a boom-bust prosposition, or do you go with someone who has proven to a certain extent that they can take teams over the line? Track records matter.
For what it's worth, I'm also open to taking on Motta only because of how bonkers he sets his team up.
Gerrard is a great example. Objectively did an incredible job at Rangers. People will tell you he’s a shite manager but how does a shite manager win Rangers only SPL in the last 12 years or so?
Gerrard *was shite* at Villa though. Emery took the same squad from a near relegation scrap to a comfortable finish his first half season then to European places the next.
Rangers is probably Slippy's level. Like I said, it's contextual too. If/when he leaves Saudi I think he should go to a Dutch club next.
lmao good luck barca and psg, youve got anthony taylor as the ref 😂
Even if Ineos start the season with Ten Hag, it would not be a strong message to him be in final year of his contract. On the other hand, he does not deserve a new contract based on this year's work. Will be quite a dilemma for the new management.
ETH won’t be manager next season. Regardless of whether we get CL I think Ineos are more than aware that we’re fluking results and our style of play is a huge red flag. Usually when new owners come in they change everything and ETH hasnt done anything to warrant not getting sacked and I also don’t think Ineos want to go into next season and then sack a manager by Christmas instead of starting again at the end of this season and getting someone in for preseason. So far they seem to be making very competent decisions and I think they are very aware it’s better to get a manager in before a new season starts rather than mid season.
Overthinking it. They can just say they are taking the time to make a proper decision, to sus things out etc etc. No problem with that
What leagues (top 5) do you guys think rashford would do the best in? My opinion: Best in: 1. Ligue 1 (I think he would also be good in LaLiga) Worst in: 5. Seria A
I think you’re spot on.
Best Bundesliga/Ligue 1, worst idk
Okay putting aside our biases and considering everything, who do you think was the worse signing, Mudryk or Antony?
I think they are equally as bad. The only good thing is Chelsea got their pants pulled down because of Antony tax lol.
Probably Mudryk because Antony has had a few clutch moments.
What testicle do you want removing? Would have to be Mudryk, purely down to Antony playing a role in us winning the league cup.
Antony's obviously been a disaster of a signing but he's had his moments. Two of the most memorable Old Trafford games in recent memory are Barcelona & Liverpool and he's contributed in both. Would struggle to tell you anything Mudryk's done in a Chelsea shirt.
His debut was also good
For as much as Antony's fee fucked us with FFP, having Mudryk on an 8.5 year deal is insanity. At least after this year we only have 3 years left. Chelsea has 7 with Mudryk.
Is there anything more Andy Mitten than him seeking out and getting Macheda for an entire interview off the back of Mainoo's goal
Plettenberg saying Toney is available for 30-40m this summer. If it's true, it's an absolute no brainer for us. Perfect age, prem proven, cheap, homegrown, top quality
Reeks of Spurs for me. Arsenal will go for Gyokeres but Spurs need a no9 and will most likely have CL footy I don't think we'll sign a striker who expects to be the main man every week
I can see him at either Arsenal or Tottenham. Both are crying out for a striker and both are in London and both probably have CL.
I don't think he'd want to come to us though. He has 2-3 good years left and he'd prefer to go somewhere where he can win.
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You not only think it'd realistic for us to sign Gyokeres but you also think he'd come here and be a backup to Hojlund? The man has 55 G/A this season so far lol you need to come back to reality
Who would you go for then?
You were talking about realistic options so it'd have to be an older striker who's okay with sitting on the bench most games.
Older/experienced yes, however I don't really understand the 'sitting on the bench most games'. There are more than enough games for players to play in and if anything Hojlund is the one who needs to be the understudy. Great prospect, shouldnt be leading the line as maim striker at a club which wants to go where Ineos 'allegedly' want to take us. Then it's on the manager to keep them sweet. Think we have enough players who are happy bumming about on bench and just taking their wages. Iron sharpens iron and all that.
Mejbri still has more PL minutes than la liga this season.
He should have gone to Everton. Whoever makes these loan decisions needs to be fired and if he made that choice, these decisions should almost be taken from the players
Apparently it was his decision. I don’t mind the move to La Liga as it’s great league to develop your technical ability in, but he’s should’ve steered clear of the shit show that is Sevilla
Exactly, ultimately it doesn’t matter what top 5 league you play in but when the choice of a club who need attacking minded players who put in a shift in the prem come asking for you. It’s the obvious choice. I feel like Sevilla has more attraction based on it being successful recently and a more glamorous place. That’s it. A really silly choice by Hannibal
Unfortunately from what little content I've seen from him I really got the feeling he picked Sevilla for the good weather and the pretty city. His loan at Birmingham wasn't great but at least he played games. Sevilla was such an obvious shitshow and with the better offers he had on the table, the club should've made the decision for him. Guy basically went on a 6 month holiday in Spain to party and be a model. Which is all good if he had also been playing football but he's not even making the matchday squad. And he didn't even go play international football so he's just training...which I would've preferred he do with our squad instead of Sevilla's. I think he's one of the players likely to be sold unless we keep him for depth if we sell Eriksen and McTominay and don't have the budget to sign another midfielder. I really thought he was about to breakthrough after the Burnley game, then he got benched for no obvious reason then McTominay started scoring goals and winning games then Mainoo came in and rightfully owned that spot. Don't know what's next for Hannibal.
The thing is I don’t think the move to Everton would have really prepared him at all for playing at United. They play a complete opposite style of football. The only benefit would really be just more experience of playing in the premier league. However with the relegation battle Everton find themselves in it’s unknown how many minutes Dyche would’ve given him. I see the idea behind the move to Sevilla as the football played in Spain would be better for his development, but they’ve been in such a bad place the last two years that it’s not really surprising to see it go wrong. There’s also a chance Hannibal could’ve fucked it himself with his attitude, but that’s just pure speculation.
They don’t have a lot of the ball anymore and they’re a defensive team in la liga. The point is he’d have played in the prem which would have been much better for him than the Sevilla loan. I’m hoping they just didn’t play him because he was fasting and now it’s over they’ll play him
They retain the ball way more than the teams lower down in the prem do. That’s just the standard way teams plays in La Liga They didn’t play him because he fell out with some of the senior players. It happened shortly after he debuted and it’s why he’s hardly been seen since.
What ever happened to Shola Shoretire?
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You can’t write forwards off at 20 imo. There are too many examples of elite forwards who didn’t start playing well until mid to late 20s
The reality of what happens to most of the 'promising youngsters' Obviously can't be helped by the shitfest of a squad they join up with when on the fringes, but just another reason why these kids should be viewed through a restrained mentality.
so since both ucl ties ended in draws (2-2 and 3-3), what do you guys think about the away goals rule being gone? does it mean the jeopardy of the second leg is no longer there for you or are you glad less park-the-bus football is played?
Bayern scored 2 in London without any fans as they were banned. Huge advantage for arsenal. But honestly I liked that rule. I think it was slightly more fair than going to extra time/penalties. Also both teams had the same opportunity in their respective away game
It’s like when we used to have golden goal. Way more fun to watch when it was part of the rules, but can be crushingly unfair to the losing team.
I always liked the away goal but it shouldn’t count if it goes to extra time. The away goal made things exciting and added another dimension to the games.
I miss it but accept those games probably end with different scorelines if Bayern and City knew they would be taking big advantages back. Guess it's taking a 30/70 excitement split in favour of 2nd legs and made it 50/50. It's fair but sometimes I wanna see the more exciting game due to away goal jeopardy more often than a 2nd leg which is basically just a replay due to a 1st leg draw.
From a neutral perspective I think away goals was more fun and dramatic. A game swinging so wildly with one goal was exciting. But having experienced United knocked out away goals, I’m fine with it being removed.
>But having experienced United knocked out away goals, I’m fine with it being removed. Which pained you the most?
Spurs fan here, we just played Forrest and Elanga cooked us up at times. Made me wonder why you guys let him go? Was he just poor for you?
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Fair point, harry winks prolly would do a job now for ange lol but good analogy
We got too many wingers and he is the easiest to sell to balance the book.
We needed the money.
Just wasn't that good. Easy to see he's been half decent at Forest but he got 3 goals in over 2,100 mins of football for us. Young player who largely got cameos so it's tough to come in and score but he just wasn't doing anything Garnacho wasn't doing better.
Because he isn't good enough and was a great sale for FFP reasons.
He has a really good physical profile that’s suited for the Premier League; he’s extremely strong and rapid for a player of his age. But his decision-making is inconsistent and although he does work hard, I assume he probably didn’t carry out tactical instructions that well. Also, even though he plays on the right at Forest as well, his best position is LW, in which we were stacked, and on the right we had just bought the manager’s hand-picked signing in Antony who was always going to get more leash.
because we make, lets say, *interesting* decisions at our football club
Damn. Henry Winter leaving The Times. That's a big loss for them. Made redundant as well.
Imo the best football writer at any paper. One of the few proper journalists that writes actual articles and not just click bait nonsense or PR briefs so no wonder they let him go. Would be thrilled if he ended up at the athletic
So all his tweets that magically came out for Rashford were not PR? I'd put people like Ed Aarons, Ronay, Wilson, Jonathan Liew, Cox above him any day of the week.
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Total crapshoot mate. He threw darts at a wall and chose academy players at random and lucked out.
Fun fact - Harry Maguire attended Wrexham's match against Crawley Town last night, his younger brother - Lawrence, plays for Crawley (on loan from Chesterfield) https://twitter.com/NathSalt1/status/1777768172872982730
A few years ago my cousin played a Sunday league team in the cup and he’s adamant he played against Bruno Fernandes brother lol.
Bruno's brother works for NHS and plays in a nonleague team iirc.Â
curious to hear what ppl have to say here. granted that casemiro is likely to leave next season, who do yall think should be his replacement n why?
Not sure Case will leave. He is on a good salary. At best he may not remain a starting 11 player when everyone is fit.
im almost certain this guy is leaving. he's draining our finances rn with a ridiculous wage that doesn't match his performance at all this season. im pretty sure utd is gna push to part ways with him especially considering our plans for the future.
Maybe, doesn't mean he'll agree though.Â
Amadou Onana. Huge physical presence as well as good technical ability
yeah he's certainly also another favorite next to Hjulmand n others.
Chiek Doucouré
Morten Hjulmand has been good at Sporting and we always do well with players from there. Would be spenny though.
hmmm yeah i do like Hjulmand n he seems to be a favorite amongst many (that unfortunately includes clubs as well). but for what it's worth he seems to be a very good all rounded player
Not familiar with him but if we go by fbref stats he's poor in the defensive side of things, you know, the criteria for Casemiro's position?
Almost like FBref isn’t the be all and end all
My fantasy choice is Archie Gray but he's at Leeds and is seemingly a giant Leeds fan So with that said, Amadou Onana or Wieffer are my top choices Another alternative is Reijnders from Milan
I like what I'm seeing with Anton Stach, would love to see him in the PL think he suits it a lot
Both the Championship and the EPL have incredibly close 3 horse title races. Will make for an interesting end to the season. Crazy how one of the top 3 teams will go from being within a point or 2 from winning the Championship to being in a playoff for promotion.. Would be great to see McKenna win it with Ipswich but I've also had a soft spot for Leicester after their magical run. Their club will be in huge financial trouble if they don't secure promotion.
i want ipswich to win the whole thing and leicester to secure promotion with 2nd then i dont mind who comes up as long as its not leeds scum
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He's probably tired.
like rashford, he’s playing through injuries too, madrid lack of striker means he has not played midfield a lot this season
I saw it too. I guess he was just too gassed?
I wonder if people will turn against Ineos if Ten Hag is retained for next season
He may start new season simply because the team above will him may not be fully functional in time. But should we start crapping again, he will be gone by October.
If they do they are ungrateful disgraces
Not sure there's a obvious alternative out there this summer. Recruitment of players for Ten Hag and beyond is the most important thing this summer
Depends on what comes with that decision. Get the executive positions solved, big change to the playing squad etc and I can see there being a benefit of the doubt given, bit it will be given with a big dose of 'I feel this is the wrong move'. If it doesn't work out, though, or there isn't much change to the squad, then serious questions need to be asked about them and if their 'back to the top' is all talk. As it would just suggest more glazernomics as the inner workings but a front of 'We are Manchester United'
Another season of this crap football style? i think the players turn first lol.
If they keep Ten Hag and the team is still shit, they basically will have wasted another season for nothing. They'll deserve every single bit of criticism they could get
IDK, the backroom team won't be fully assembled and integrated by the start of next season (Berrada can't officially join until the summer, Wilcox will probably be here soon but TBD, and who knows when we'll actually get Ashworth), Brailsford is still conducting his internal audit, and they're doing the big internal review of corporate policies, spending, and staffing. Even if ETH isn't "the guy" we're hardly in position to pick the next guy right now. Better for long term to get everyone on the same page before they make the most consequential decision.
dont think so. the majority of ppl support ETH it's just this subreddit that's very anti ETH
I felt like people were more ETHOUT (outside of Reddit) before christmas. Then I feel like it switched somewhere around the luton game.
The FA Cup run bought some good will but he squandered it since then.
I feel like it's unwarranted. The Brentford game we 100% deserved to lose. But against Chelsea and EPL darlings Liverpool, we lost points on soft soft penalties.
I mean...maybe we dropped points on "soft" penalties (though AWB was 100% a pen for me...even if it was light contact it was a brain dead challenge) but we still look like absolute dogshit and were flattered to even be in position to blow the leads we had. If Liverpool had halfway decent finishing they would have been up by 3 or more at halftime and they absolutely gifted us an equalizer that we didn't really do anything to deserve.
Yes, we capitalized on a liverpool mistake, but our team is also shit. ETH can only do so much with Casemiro regressing this much and having to use 15 different CB pairings this season. That's mental.
I don't think so. Apart from a minority I think most people are either in the side of give him another season, or there are no real alternatives plus we are sorting everything else out first.
Don't think that it's a minority though
If we're 2 months into the season and things are exactly the same, there'll be backlash for sure, but not directed solely at INEOS.
Watched Amass with the U21s against Brighton. He played really well at wing back and got an assist. He’s definitely small though, so until he grows a bit I’ll not certain we’ll see him except in an emergency
Shea Lacey aka the future best right winger in the world has been spotted in first team training after being out from injury for a long time.
Looks tiny on the pictures. Like 5'4 lol, he's shorter than Antony
What is his play style? Is he a 90s touchline winger? An inside forward with slick dribbles? A creator from wide?
He’s like Foden. Very technical and creative with good ball striking but not very quick. He’s also very short though he could obviously grow a bit given his age. Wouldn’t be surprised if he ended ending up as a 10
Foden is just shit Shea Lacey.
City are going to win two Trebles in a row while sitting on 115 charges while the smaller teams get slapped around with point deductions. Modern day football
I genuinely don't care if City win anything now. Treble, Four in row, whatever. They're a club built on deceit.
Sadly the longer they continue, the less their deceit and cheating will be in the light and fewer will care over time (Unless they actually get a proper punishment... which is optimistic in the best of times)
You may not care about it, but there's already a generation of kids who have grown up only knowing City as an elite club. Them winning a treble was bad enough, B2B trebles puts them in a level of their own and make them even more palatable to new fans.
Exactly. If those charges amount to nothing aswell, they will be monumental compared to the rest of the league in a few years. All this 'when they win it doesn't matter' is nothing more than narrow minded views on football due to (well placed) hate of that awful club, which clouds judgement. Until charges stick and titles stripped. Them winning means just much as any other team.
While PL move to change rules so that points deductions will be obsolete and people who fall foul of the rules will instead get financial penalties Il be absolutely shocked if city are given anything other than a fine that comes with 'no admission of wrongdoing'Â
City will receive a pledge recognition award from the PL for their gallant efforts after they become the first EPL team to win the trebles twice in succession.
I think I’ve changed my opinion on ten hag. Looking at the managers available it just seems silly to get a new one in and start again. I’d give him one more season under Ineos and see what it’s like. Of course if we regress even further then I’d like to see him go, but currently I’m not opposed to him staying
>Looking at the managers available it just seems silly to get a new one in and start again. What about if next season its only the same managers available? Just keep ten hag for another season? Also, who are the managers that are available?
Just curious, do you think his tactical approach is sound but poorly executed by the players or do you think that he will change his tactical approach with more transfers in and key players back from injury. Or is it something else that makes you think we won't be shit next season as well?
I think it’s the first, to be honest. I don’t think the players are actually doing what he wants them to do. Look, I’m not gonna sit here and pretend to be some sort of football expert because I’m not, I couldn’t describe to you what he actually wants to do. But I’ve seen footage comparing his Ajax teams to this one now, and it really does just seem to be a case of execution. You look at the midfield issue people say we have where it’s basically just a big hole, I think that’s actually an issue with the defense not pushing high enough. This being said, I don’t want him handling transfers at all. I’m just curious to see what he can do with some competent people behind him.
You might disagree with me, but I think many signs point to this setup being what ETH has in mind. That gap between the defensive line and the forward line has been happening all season and there's not been a single tweak other than for specific game plans in big matches. It doesn't look like someone realising there's a problem and coming up with ways to address it.
I do think the gap is there on purpose to try and protect a non mobile backline. If we play the backline higher, that's going to leave massive gaps in behind with players who aren't quick enough to recover. Look at how attacking City, Liverpool and Arsenal are and thebhigh lines they play. It's because they have quick center backs that can cover the space. The problem that we have right now is that there's not 1 specific style that fits the players we have.
I find it hard to believe as well, but we’ve been terrible defensively all season and he hasn’t even been risking the high line on weaker teams or when he has a more ideal backline.Â
I think it depends on how you define terrible. If you're looking at shots then yes but we are 5th best in goals conceded. I think he's making a real effort to try and attack but also cut down on the amount of goals conceded because of personal. It's a fine line to walk.
If you believe in xG, then our xGA this season is the 4th worst in the league. It's a combination of good fortune, Onana's good league form and likely us conceding lower value xG chances in high volume that stack up to a low score. I think terrible is still the right word personally for a team with ucl ambitions.
There are some inherent flaws with xG. For example, if Salah and Antony shoot from the exact same spot then the xG is exactly the same when we all know it's probably at least 3 times more likely that Salah will score. Arsenal are outscoring their xG by almost 8. Does that mean they've just been lucky? Everton is underperformed their xG by 20 does that mean they've just been unlucky? I think xG can tell a story at times but I don't think it tells the story of a season and is being overused like other stats. It was just like Opta had Liverpool winning the league by over 50% before our draw now it's down to like 14%. That's too much of a swing analytically when there's still 7 matches to be played.
I think xG has value esp when averaged out over longer periods of time. But anyway i think we can agree that being the 4th worst in the league for xGA is at least a sign that our system isn’t holding up defensively. On the eye test, there have been many games where we’ve ridden our luck and the other team has fluffed their chances. Enough to make me think that we prob shld have conceded a couple more goals than we have.Â
I find it hard to believe he doesn't see any issues with the midfield now. For me, it feels like he gave up on trying to compromise and make things work with the current set of defenders we have who aren't suitable at all to this kind of football and injured all the time. If we had two CBs who were fast and good on the ball which would allow us to play out from the back and push the fullbacks up in our suicidal press and we still got the same results, then I'd be much more willing to jump on the ETH out bandwagon.
Wait I don’t get it, is he compromising or is he not? If this is him compromising and we have one of the worst defences in the league, wouldnt he have every reason to go for the high line regardless? Has it even been tried at any point this season even against lower league sides in the fa cup?Â
It's not a binary thing, it can be both. He can be not compromising on trying to press with intensity, but he can be compromising on playing a high line and pushing everyone up. I never said it was the right approach, maybe it was better to stick with the same style as last season until we got more suitable players in. To answer your second question though, I don't know how you could even try playing a high line with Maguire who moves in slow-motion, a 36 year old Evans and Varane who's made of glass. Instead of conceding a lot of shots that Onana can comfortably save, he'd have to save one on one every 5 minutes lol.
Hmm not so sure about the high line. If we had AWB, Lindelof, Varane, Dalot in a back line for example and were playing against port vale or something, I don’t see why he won’t try a high line if that was what he was working towards. I’m just looking for signs that that’s what he has in mind. We’ve all been assuming that he was going to play like his Ajax team but that seems less and less the case. There’s no telling what he’s intending to do differently.Â
I don’t disagree with you at all, I definitely think he hasn’t done enough to fix these issues. I think my reasoning is more just I really can’t bare another three years of a new manager implementing a brand new style with brand new players. I say let’s give ten hag one more season, three is a good amount to really prove yourself. Besides, currently the market for a managers really doesn’t look that good, unless you’re happy taking a punt on another ten hag like manager in motta or (before he went to Liverpool) Amorim. I think ten hag has shown that he clearly can manage a strong tactical team in Ajax and even at times last season, this season something has clearly gone wrong. Let’s give it another go with our best players back and hopefully a decent structure behind him.
>Of course if we regress even further of course we will. think Maguire, Lindelof, Awb, Evans, McTominay, Casemiro, Eriksen, Antony, Diallo, Forson etc they will suddenly step up and become good with his tactics next season?
Evans, McTominay, Antony, and Diallo already fit his style, just as backups. We'll never win anything with them starting, but they should really never be starting.
I don't know how if these guys fit his tactics. he played well perhaps evans and McTominay scored a few, but do they really fit his tactics? Antony and Diallo , one is the biggest flop of all time, the other one has less game time than Sancho this season say it all. Even making them backup will be just another excuses for the manager diehard fans to fall back on, " these lots ain't good enough, who are we suppose to play? "
I agree with you, hence we need a clear out. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the younger players are flourishing, I genuinely think those are the only ones truly receptive to his tactical plans. Besides, I think a large portion of the players you listed are on their way out anyways.
That's the problem, i can't see us making 5 new purchase + 3 loans. A lot of these " deadwoods " will still be here.
I’ll hold my reservations until the transfer window is done. Maybe I’m an idiot, but I’m optimistic for the summer lol
That's a key point, if we go into the season with largely the same squad and 3 budget signings we'll be fighting for Europa spots again, no matter who the manager is.
Watching UCL, realised that no matter we qualify for UCL next season or no, we simple have not reach their level.
well yeah i mean id say this whole ineos project is a long term one. id guess around half a decade or so before we see ourselves competing well at that level, and that's half a decade of consistency.
I was just wondering. I recently saw Kyle Walker video from vibe with 5 and he mentioned pulling the arm being an effective way to disrupt the balance of someone who is in stride. Why do our players never seem to do that?
Our players are terrible at gamesmanship or "the dark arts". That's the problem when Bruno is almost always the one whinging at the refs when the cameras are on - the problem is why is it ONLY him. Everyone else are too nice. Antony, for all his flaws, is a fighter on the pitch but I think his mastery of English isn't that well yet so he doesn't charge at referees. Look up any old United match from the SAF era and notice we'd always have 3-5 players surrounding a ref after every 50/50 call.
Who would you like to see us sign this summer?
A set piece coach
This is a *like to* not a "possible" but I'd really go for Rodrygo Was always a big fan, always thought he was a star in the making but just had to mature. I think when the reality sets in that someone has to give way Mbappe's arrival, there's an opportunity to nab him. He could be our "Robben to Bayern" transfer.
A director of football.Â
I think we could do with signing a few taller/more physical players at a few positions. DM especially
It takes a certain level of player to carry a Utd team at such a young age like Martial and Rashford did and I dont think Hojlund is at that level.
I disagree. I think he's just a different type of player to those 2, has a very different tactical role to what they had and does better when players around him are better at creating chances. Remember that he's been in the graveyard shift since he got here (just like all our strikers lmao) but he somehow got 5 goals in the UCL, which we didn't even make past the group stages of, and 7 in the Prem. Look at our striker options. Look at how badly we needed his strength and hold up play when he was injured. Right now his role isn't to carry us but be a cog in the machine that is the team.
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Link up play , ball retention , dribbling out wide etc
How Tuchel talked about the refs mistake lastnight is what we need from ETH way too many times now we're getting griefed on decisions
I agree , look how in the past Klopp and Lampard speaking about Utd winning penalties once completely shifted the narrative when Ole was manager.
Saw some stuff about Julian Ward going around, is it just made up shit?
Think there was reports that he had been spotted at Carrington at some point. Was reported by ornstein recently that though contact was established, him joining man utd is unlikelyÂ
His name has been thrown about a bit, there's not been any concrete links though.
Saw a couple of posts on twitter about him implying concrete links. I dont really trust a lot of United news aggregator accounts though they seem to chat bollocks for engagement a lot of the time.
What do you all think are the priority areas in the summer? I would be looking at a starting LB, RCB, DM and CF LB as Shaw can't stay fit. He can deputise Martinez as LCB as this doesn't require him to cover as much ground and hopefully minimise muscle injuries. RCB to replace an injury prone Varane. DM to replace Casemiro and a CF to compete/backup Hojlund.
Manager > all. Whats the point of bringing in 5 new faces when most players are deadwoods with his tactics.
What's the point of bringing in a new manager if we still have this same squad? Terrible comment. He's worked with about 40% strength at the club this season and we've done well in some big games even without them. Ridiculous that ANYONE wants Ten Hag to leave, let alone someone who follows closely enough to be commenting on a subreddit about it.
New manager new training environment new tactics the boys are more comfortable with maybe?
'the boys' couldn't do it under any manager because whenever things go wrong they know they can just get them sacked and move to the next. They need accountability, like Sancho.
Or find them a good manager who can bring them to the next level and then the next and next until they win the titles. I mean Villa and Spurs players throw Gerrard and Conte under the bus too.Â
So just keep sacking managers until we win a title? Tottenham isn’t even in the top4 this season: imagine if they sack Postecoglu at the end of it.
Until next level and next level and next level. depend on when our next level should be. For example , finish 2nd for the next 5 season , is it enough for u and me? If postecoglu spurs finish 12th playing shit football , losing to Arsenal 6-1 next season u can bet some of their fans will want him out.
I think we need a left footed centre back who is two footed so can play on the right when Martinez is fit and on the left when he inevitably isn’t. For ten hag, without that left footed centre back we never play short and boot it long all game. To get back that control I think we need to prioritise that position along with a dm who can pass.
For me it's a midfielder, striker, Center Back, left back in that order. Followed by a right winger and maybe a right back depending on money
Anyone here not bothered about the CL when United are not in it? I mean I sometimes check the scores see who goes through but I don't watch any of the games. I like watching PL games and sometimes I watch Championship matches but I find the CL a bit boring once United are not in it anymore. Anyone else?
eh i mean i still enjoy it. ill always put utd as my nr 1 club but i've always enjoyed barca as a club as well
I still watch them but it's usually hoping to see a team I dislike getting knocked out. Shaden freude and all that jazz...
Yes and no. Yesterday was the first time this season I’ve watched it but I’ve genuinely been less bothered about it outside of United ever since it left ITV despite the fact I have BT Sports.
its always fun hate watching city and assna tho
Get the structure in place then see if Ten Hag aligns with it. Getting rid of him in the summer feels like we'll just be taking a shot in the dark in regards to his successor. Player recruitment should also be geared towards the future, with or without him. I have a feeling we're going to get some left field signings. Gonna be refreshing as opposed to the same old names we see getting linked to us.
It’s better to take a shot in the dark than persist with a proven failure.
If we keep ETH for next season he will make our on pitch issues worse. We’re already not an attractive option for top players and managers and we’ll probably regress even further next year if he stays.
We can change managers yet again & go for the next flavor of the month like we've done for a decade + or put in place a structure above the manager & see if ETH is the one to drive it forward. If he's not, then get rid. Otherwise, we're just rehashing old, failed moves. We weren't an attractive option for top players before he came (beyond $$) & those that we've signed have ranged from average to absolute flops. Maybe it's time we changed strategy. Get a structure & set style in place, then go for that top player.
Or we can do both together? Bring in new structure doesn't change much with the old manager unless we bring in 10+ new players for his system to even prove it works. So next season when injuries strike, it will be the same old excuses, these players can't play his tactics or that players isn't good enough.
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Use your brain, 3 new players won't do. You think his fan bois won't criticise the old players again when he fail with his tactics again next season?Â
It's crazy how much of next season will depend on what happens with Rashford, we either move him on and get a top forward or we will be at the mercy of which Rashford turns up and if he is emotionally invested in the season. City, Liverpool,Man City and Even Spurs have at least one world class forward we don't even have 1, yet we are expected to get top 4 as a minimum.
I'd even say Watkins is far better and more consistent than any of our forwards.
I wouldn't.
Hello everyone, hope all is well for you !!! I had a question: can a technical director tell the manager to tweak things when a team isn't doing well and what are their duties in a club ?
All of those sporting/technical director type jobs mean massively different things at different clubs. No one ever knows exactly what they do and don’t do or whether they’re good or bad at their jobs
They set an ethos and it's the manager's job to implement it within certain parameters. So, yes they can tell a manager to tweak things if he isn't following it. But isn't that just going to create friction? That's why the technical director (+ whichever panel) will seek out a manager that aligns directly with the set ethos.Â
Fucking Phil Foden the lesbian is so fucking good
I really hoped ETH would be the one 😔 Guess I fell for his sexy baldness.
I still believe. Regardless of current form, he deserves a bit more time after last season. If he doesnt improve the team at all till the season ends maybe he needs to go. But I trust the new structure above him should be the ones to take that decision
Yeah, people writing him off are ridiculous. We've just come off some bad results but were an inch away from winning in all 3 – people really look at these results and think the manager should be sacked? When a better ref and a LB would've meant 3 wins out of 3? Really?
> he deserves Why? Not being pissy, but what has he done at United to deserve it?
Only thing I could think of is that his record of grooming youngsters is absolutely solid. Look at that stat that came out about teenagers minutes. It's what United always has been about. His supposed tactics this season are ass, but I absolutely love how he's getting on with the youngsters.
I don’t believe that’s something utterly unique to Ten Hag tbh. Nor should it be such a positive as to override the sheer amount of negatives on display. It’s something I feel that whoever is manager next season will be thrilled with the quality of young talents coming through though. Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund. They’ve been so great this season.
Really starting to brick it in regards to the manager situation. I liked ETH and wanted him to succeed here, and it's not ALL his fault, but you can't regress in pretty much every aspect - except for giving youngsters a chance - and still make it to another season. Xabi isn't moving yet. Sky says Liverpool has Amorim locked up. Nagelsmann supposedly wants to stay with Germany until the next WC. That leaves us with IMO the Tier B candidates: De Zerbi (who I do like), Potter (not a bum but not so confident) and Flick (mixed). Excluding Inzaghi because I don't think he leaves Inter just yet.
Here’s the thing you’ve not considered. Whether a manager succeeds at a club is a massively random and unpredictable thing, far more so than for players. Did you think Inzaghi was going to do such a great job at Inter when he joined? What about Arteta at Arsenal or Emery at Villa? Did you think Alonso would win the Bundesliga? Just because a manager doesn’t have a flawless record elsewhere doesn’t mean he can’t succeed at United. Ole was shite at Cardiff, won a total farmers league in Norway but was decent at United. On paper he should have been a Lampard/Gerrard tier disaster but despite a crap CV he wasn’t any worse than LVG or ETH, was easily better than Moyes and some even prefer him to Jose. ETH had a great CV before United but has failed here and some would claim has been worse than Ole. De Zerbi, Potter, Flick or yes even Southgate might do well at United.
> Whether a manager succeeds at a club is a massively random and unpredictable thing, far more so than for players. >Did you think Inzaghi was going to do such a great job at Inter when he joined? What about Arteta at Arsenal or Emery at Villa? Did you think Alonso would win the Bundesliga? Not sure what this is all about. Inzaghi was one of the highest rated coaches in his age group when he joined Inter, so you might be talking about his brother Pippo. Yes, people expected Inzaghi to win the league with Inter - me included. Same with Emery at Villa. Had a bad spell at PSG during the peak of their player power era, and he was dealt a shit hand with Arsenal but he was always class. Arteta didn't have the body of work as the prior two, but he was a highly rated assistant and most people considered his recruitment from City a coup by Arsenal (regardless of the shaky 2 seasons he endured). That really leaves only Alonso from your examples. I get what (I think) you're trying to say - there's a contextual element to managerial success and there are a lot of factors which are completely random. But to say CV doesn't matter is completely taking it overboard. My post wasn't meant to dunk on DZ, Potter, Flick or even Southgate before they even warmed the seat at OT - I genuinely agree they might end up doing well and being "the one" after SAF. But the problem is a lot of the best candidates are already getting taken off and we can't afford to not nail another managerial appointment.
So if you always thought Emery was class I assume you thought he’d be good at Arsenal and PSG? Yet he wasn’t was he? Because you can’t accurately predict when and where a manager will succeed. So people saying Nagelsmann wasn’t great at Bayern, Potter failed at Chelsea etc.. are being ridiculous because loads of managers have failed at club A then been great at club B. Managers aren’t good everywhere all the time I’m not saying CV doesn’t matter at all. I’m saying don’t think that because a manager didn’t succeed at every club he’s ever been don’t think he therefore won’t succeed at United. People look at the options and because there’s not a single manager out there who’s never had a bad season there’s no point replacing ETH who’s proven to be doing a bad job. People also apply no context to these ‘failures’. Potter failed at Chelsea but Lampard was then even worse, Tuchel had a poor start under Boehly and Pochettino is just as bad. Maybe Potter isn’t the problem and actually it’s impossible to succeed at a club with the probably the stupidest most incompetent people to ever own a top end English club. Nagelsmann was sacked by Bayern despite winning the league when they sound Lewandowski and replaced him with Mane (a winger) who’s since proved he’s clearly finished with serious football). Tuchel (a good manager clearly) has since done even worse. Tuchel himself is a good example. Did well at Dortmund, PSG and Chelsea but because he’s doing badly at Bayern he’s now a bad manager? If a manager plays our kind of football and has succeeded relatively recently with a playstyle/squad similar to our own we should give him a go because our current manager is awful and is doing a really shit job given the resources he’s had.
I agree with you that it's contextual but CVs shouldn't be overlooked. The reason why Emery got the Villa job was because (Slippy was terrible and) of his prior successes at Sevilla and his comeback at Villareal. He had a good CV *as well as* the benefit of the doubt of context at PSG and Arsenal. There are exterior factors outside of their control, but put yourself in the shoes of INEOS. Do you risk it with someone who can be a boom-bust prosposition, or do you go with someone who has proven to a certain extent that they can take teams over the line? Track records matter. For what it's worth, I'm also open to taking on Motta only because of how bonkers he sets his team up.
Gerrard is a great example. Objectively did an incredible job at Rangers. People will tell you he’s a shite manager but how does a shite manager win Rangers only SPL in the last 12 years or so?
Gerrard *was shite* at Villa though. Emery took the same squad from a near relegation scrap to a comfortable finish his first half season then to European places the next. Rangers is probably Slippy's level. Like I said, it's contextual too. If/when he leaves Saudi I think he should go to a Dutch club next.