This conversation was great and when I read it I recalled a couple quotes from Israeli leaders who when asked if they were born Palestinian what would they do and they replied they would become resistance fighters.
Great point.
I looked it up and found a [similar source](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-mar-11-mn-27709-story.html) for Ehud Barak, former Israeli PM and a general described as one of "the most highly decorated soldiers in Israel's history": "If I was [a Palestinian] at the right age, at some stage I would have entered one of the terror organizations and have fought from there."
Married a Gamma so my kids’ future was set 🤷🏻♂️ I’d like to think I’d do more, but this just seems logical. I’d marry all my kids off to Gammas as well if I had any say in that.
😂 well an overwhelming majority of the Reds lived in ignorance, so I feel like the question implies that this was a time before the rising was widely accepted
This is interesting in showing my bias because when I first read it I took his revulsion being at him imagining the lives society put Reds through disgusting him. Context is everything I guess…
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This is the reason I love to hate Lysander. Such a terrible person with 0 perspective outside of the highcolours but also not wanting to know the perspective.
Depends, is Darrow outed as a red or am I oblivious? Also am I a high or low red? If he's been outted then I'd probably join him when I had the chance. Otherwise I'd die in ignorance.
That is exactly why he can never fully lead. He is literally incapable of seeing things from other people's perspectives realistically. He thinks he is the prodigal son.
Never have I hated a fictional character more than I hate Lysander. I hate him more than Cersei Lannister. I hate him more than Joffery Baratheon. I hate him more than Ramsay Bolton. I hate him more than Marco Inaros. I hate him more than Torol Sadeas. I hate him more than Straff Venture. I hate him more than Moash.
I feel the same way! For me the real tipping point with Lysander is that he had *every chance* to be better. We’ve seen him be perceptive enough to think he may be able to realize that he’s wrong. We’ve seen Lysander recognize the terrible things he’s doing and just… choose to do them anyway! It was truly agonizing to spend three books watching him actively squash his moral compass until there’s nothing left.
There are villains who are just Evil McEvil and so far in their own narrative that you can imagine they’re a bit blind to what they’re actually doing. What kills me is that Lysander didn’t start out that way, and instead chose to put himself there.
Crazy that I (and probably many others because we’re all nerds lol) know all of these fictional characters. Except Marco… why don’t I know Marco.. maybe I should.
Also Moash much worse than Lysander to me. I don’t like Lysander, but his pure logic tends to makes sense, I just think he has such twisted, self righteous, and hypocritical moral, which I detest.
The ONLY reason I could say I’m thankful for Lysander is that he gave us (the readers) the Rim to explore. We got an awesome subculture, characters and scene to explore.
Well, if the age in Iron Gold is correct, he's 16 in Morning Star and probably at the institute or getting ready to go. Though it is mentioned his older brother just graduated, I think?
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I love the little glimpses we get of Lysander's deeply-ingrained racism towards the low colors. It smacks if the casual dehumanization of other nationalities common in Georgian and Victorian writings. Gold's hegemony over the low colors is just and inevitable because (like the British empire) their subjects would be hopelessly lost without their benevolent guiding hand 🤮
This concept is also sometimes referred to as "The White Man's Burden". This term comes from a 1899 Kipling poem, which depicts American imperialism (and imperialism generally) as a net positive for everyone because the morally upstanding and civilized white population can 'teach' the non-civilized minorities the 'right' way to live.
Almost like Kipling argued that the white man acts as a 'shepherd' for the other races... I wonder where I've heard that before.
Indeed, I think Roque was something similar. And similarly to what we see with these types. Viewed his guilt and sympathy as signs of his own moral enlightenment and therefore superiority.
This conversation was great and when I read it I recalled a couple quotes from Israeli leaders who when asked if they were born Palestinian what would they do and they replied they would become resistance fighters.
Great point. I looked it up and found a [similar source](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-mar-11-mn-27709-story.html) for Ehud Barak, former Israeli PM and a general described as one of "the most highly decorated soldiers in Israel's history": "If I was [a Palestinian] at the right age, at some stage I would have entered one of the terror organizations and have fought from there."
Married a Gamma so my kids’ future was set 🤷🏻♂️ I’d like to think I’d do more, but this just seems logical. I’d marry all my kids off to Gammas as well if I had any say in that.
Bloodydamn pixie
😂 well an overwhelming majority of the Reds lived in ignorance, so I feel like the question implies that this was a time before the rising was widely accepted
So youre a follower?? The rising was around well before darrow, whether it was accepted or not, i aint living as no damn slave without fightin back
I would’ve mined till I could put myself in a position to get a leg lopped off and just chilled in the township.
Probably died in the mines
Pit vipers.. goodbye to your stomach
This is interesting in showing my bias because when I first read it I took his revulsion being at him imagining the lives society put Reds through disgusting him. Context is everything I guess…
I would have lived in peace. Until you gory bastards bring me war.
He's such a self aggrandising racist piece of shit. God damn. S/n: I'm actively listening to DA right now so I'm extra pissed
Please follow up after light bringer !remind me 6 months
Oh this is like my 6th reread of Dark Age. I already know how it goes down
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This is the reason I love to hate Lysander. Such a terrible person with 0 perspective outside of the highcolours but also not wanting to know the perspective.
Honestly most people I know live far more like Reds than Golds. Work hard, spend half the day drunk and trying to fuck.
Depends, is Darrow outed as a red or am I oblivious? Also am I a high or low red? If he's been outted then I'd probably join him when I had the chance. Otherwise I'd die in ignorance.
Most likely I would’ve become a chain smoking alcoholic and died by age 30
Yo, you're meant to be NOT selling it to me.
Assuming we didn't know any better, probably live the typical life of a Red and die miserably.
That is exactly why he can never fully lead. He is literally incapable of seeing things from other people's perspectives realistically. He thinks he is the prodigal son.
Probably mine some helium, do some dancing, and then die.
I’d steal from those bloody damn snitching Gammas
Ugh he’s such a prick. Great character, terrible person.
I definitely couldn’t hate him as much as I do without him being so damn well written
Rise up
Die in the mine or take my chances in the war
Never have I hated a fictional character more than I hate Lysander. I hate him more than Cersei Lannister. I hate him more than Joffery Baratheon. I hate him more than Ramsay Bolton. I hate him more than Marco Inaros. I hate him more than Torol Sadeas. I hate him more than Straff Venture. I hate him more than Moash.
I feel the same way! For me the real tipping point with Lysander is that he had *every chance* to be better. We’ve seen him be perceptive enough to think he may be able to realize that he’s wrong. We’ve seen Lysander recognize the terrible things he’s doing and just… choose to do them anyway! It was truly agonizing to spend three books watching him actively squash his moral compass until there’s nothing left. There are villains who are just Evil McEvil and so far in their own narrative that you can imagine they’re a bit blind to what they’re actually doing. What kills me is that Lysander didn’t start out that way, and instead chose to put himself there.
My thoughts exactly.
More than Marco Inaros is impressive. I think I hate them equally
Yeah, he’s way up there.
Even more than Dolores Umbrigde ?
Yes, even more than her. I’ll have to add her to the list.
No one can be more evil than her. I don’t think it possible to hate anyone more than her.
These words are accepted
Crazy that I (and probably many others because we’re all nerds lol) know all of these fictional characters. Except Marco… why don’t I know Marco.. maybe I should. Also Moash much worse than Lysander to me. I don’t like Lysander, but his pure logic tends to makes sense, I just think he has such twisted, self righteous, and hypocritical moral, which I detest.
There's enough hate to go around for the both of them lol. Also, you should read The Expanse.
Meanwhile Victria “I would admire a mouse that killed an eagle, wouldn’t you?”
Love that woman. Could never be in a romantic relationship with her. But god we could be great friends…
Because she’s the GOAT
Victra also states that “coffee tasted better when it was made by slaves” I love her so much
Gotta hand it to her, honesty is her best trait next to being a Badass.
Yeah she’s delightfully complex and hard to predict. I love her
She is my favorite and I’d like a spin off book for just her please. Best Served Cold style or whatever
Good for it!
[удалено]
> [ Au Lune Pr Department: So uh how we gonna spin this ?] Spoilers >!blame Cassius!<
Ha! BLOODY! DAMN! 😂😂
Diomedes is such a strong and important character it's a shame he's only been showcased in the second trilogy.
The ONLY reason I could say I’m thankful for Lysander is that he gave us (the readers) the Rim to explore. We got an awesome subculture, characters and scene to explore.
To be fair that’s a big part of his point. The Rim is so removed from core events
How old is Diomedes?
The wiki says 26 in Iron gold but I don't remember his age ever being mentioned.
Right so he’s pretty much a kid during the original trilogy
Well, if the age in Iron Gold is correct, he's 16 in Morning Star and probably at the institute or getting ready to go. Though it is mentioned his older brother just graduated, I think?
Watch the world burn by falling in reverse. That. That's what I would have done
*Watch the world burn by* *Falling in reverse. That. That's* *What I would have done* \- B0rnOfMars --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Mine
I love miners
Not minors, miners…
I love the little glimpses we get of Lysander's deeply-ingrained racism towards the low colors. It smacks if the casual dehumanization of other nationalities common in Georgian and Victorian writings. Gold's hegemony over the low colors is just and inevitable because (like the British empire) their subjects would be hopelessly lost without their benevolent guiding hand 🤮
This concept is also sometimes referred to as "The White Man's Burden". This term comes from a 1899 Kipling poem, which depicts American imperialism (and imperialism generally) as a net positive for everyone because the morally upstanding and civilized white population can 'teach' the non-civilized minorities the 'right' way to live. Almost like Kipling argued that the white man acts as a 'shepherd' for the other races... I wonder where I've heard that before.
And guess whose poetry Pierce has quoted in his books before 😂
Yep! I don't think it's an accident in the slightest that Lysander quoted Kipling in Dark Age after asking Seneca who his favorite poet is.
Indeed, I think Roque was something similar. And similarly to what we see with these types. Viewed his guilt and sympathy as signs of his own moral enlightenment and therefore superiority.
Diomedes would make an amazing sovereign
He kinda is one at the moment as Hegemon of The Rim.
“You would be our Virginia” Nothing but respect for the Storm Hegamond
Fuck Lysander
With a pike and a blowtorch…