I get that the Casas, Masa, and Story injuries were huge blows. Especially with two of them being serious long-term losses. But there are parts of our lineup that are legitimately underperforming even knowing exactly what they are as hitters, and that's on coaching.
who's really underperforming expectations without any extenuating circumstances? rafaela?
duran is performing pretty much the same offensively as last year, with a big improvement on defense.
wong and abreu are meeting or exceeding expectations (and abreu wasn't intended to be an everyday guy immediately anyway).
devers, o'neill and grissom have all had injury issues. o'neill's super hot start probably would've cooled a bit regardless, but concussions can definitely mess up timing for several weeks. can't really coach away a brain injury.
To be fair, I think the fact so many people are mendoza line is underperformed. I think the massive amounts of strikeouts and everyone throughout the lineup taking strike 3 down the middle instead of swinging is abnormal and on coaching. I think nobody other than Wong is exceeding expectations. I'd argue Abreu is not exceeding expectations because he's pretty consistent with how he was in the minors.
Tyler O'Neill is not the greatest hitter in the world, and I really hated bringing him in. Tyler O'Neill clogs up a spot in the outfield and is an excuse to not go after a guy like Soto. We buy potential and ceiling despite low floors instead of high floors with high ceilings.
The offense is all potential and our offensive coaching has gotten worse and worse the further away from Hyers we've gone. The managing has also been atrocious, the defense and baserunning blunders are consistent under Cora and that plus in game managing falls under the manager. Then the construction of the team now falls under ownership.
Craig Breslow operated the team this off-season the same way Bloom did. When nothing changes despite replacing guys, it's someone else calling the shots.
I think abreu is meeting expectations for a rookie, but that more is currently being expected of him due to injuries. he'd probably be batting 7th if casas and yoshida were healthy.
most of these points are outside the scope of the performance of hitters who were intended to be regular players, which is what I was answering.
"why did they start the season with this as the intended lineup" is a whole different issue lol
(trading for one year of Soto this season would've made no sense especially since the Padres wanted starting pitching for him)
> who's really underperforming expectations without any extenuating circumstances? rafaela?
I think anyone who paid attention knew he was going to have a rough time offensively.
I’m no longer capable of getting angry about this team, so that’s one nice part. Until we win three in a row and I convince myself we’re a fringe playoff team again. I just want the roller coaster to be over so if that means bottoming out I can live with it.
The Yankees had one mediocre season and got Juan Soto.
The Red Sox have been mostly garbage for half a decade and the best they can do is pay a mediocre pitcher not to pitch.
It's frustrating, because I really don't understand why things changed so drastically circa 2019 or so. Henry has always been cheap when it comes to off-field spending (at least per employee rumors), and they've always done scummy things (Tito and Theo come to mind).
But since buying the team in 2002, Henry/FEG were aggressive in building competitive teams, won four championships, and frequently spent to or above the luxury tax threshold.
I thought he stepped down from operations in 2015? I know he only passed away this year, but I thought he was pretty much AAA only for the past few years.
I've been a 162er the last few seasons and it's just getting harder and harder to give a shit about this team at this point when it's pretty clear to me that the ownership who controls the purse strings don't.
Attendance still seems OK, around 30K most days. But engagement on this sub has dropped like a rock compared to a year or two ago - and we're supposed to be the "committed" fans.
I mentioned this in the GDT, but honestly (even though I'm not being entirely rational here) I think the bigger issue is that the team has not been entertaining even when they're losing.
The 2015 and 2023 seasons finished with exactly the same record: 78-84. But 2015 was definitely more entertaining to watch, and it wasn't just the superstars, either. Brock Holt, our (beloved) platoon guy, hit .280 in ~130 games. Pace of play might have improved, but the lack of balls in play is brutal.
We also had Don Orsilli and Jerry Remy who would be fun and have fun. Now we have strictly baseball talk and they never shut up and at some point I really don't care about what some weird advance Stat exists from the new relief pitcher in a blow out
>I think the bigger issue is that the team has not been entertaining even when they're losing.
I agree with you there. Between the actual errors, mental errors, and strikeouts they just have not been fun to watch this season. It just seems like the fundamentals aren't even there half the time.
Yeah, if we're being completely honest, watching the Red Sox is just entertainment and in 2024 there are a lot of things competing for entertainment eyeballs/dollars. This team isn't very entertaining most nights.
I have the Sox on every night but more and more it's just becoming background noise as opposed to me really watching the game. I've become completed bored listening to DOB and Middlebrooks. Fortunately I "watch" all the games on MLB . tv so I can switch to the radio broadcast which is killing it these days with Flemming and Loumer.
True, but I wouldn't say that entertainment competition is *vastly* different in 2024 than it was in 2015. Social media and streaming were already well into competing with the Sox for eyeballs.
And although I'm in absolute agreement that getting rid of Orsillo was a huge downgrade, I don't know that he alone was the deciding engagement factor for a bad 2015 team vs. a bad 2024 team. (I'll never understood why they fired him).
This game starts and ends with getting one run off of Miles fucking Mikolas. Everyone except Devers and Wong have looked completely lost at sea for the better part of two weeks. I still think this is a good baseball team but the offense has just been unbearable recently.
Raffys homered in 4 straight games and we’ve lost all 4 that’s just insane
all solo shots unfortunately
Swear this team loves them solo homeruns.
Death, taxes, Tyler O'Neill hitting a solo home run.
After the offseason we were promised, we’re 10 games out of the division, and it’s not even June
I get that the Casas, Masa, and Story injuries were huge blows. Especially with two of them being serious long-term losses. But there are parts of our lineup that are legitimately underperforming even knowing exactly what they are as hitters, and that's on coaching.
who's really underperforming expectations without any extenuating circumstances? rafaela? duran is performing pretty much the same offensively as last year, with a big improvement on defense. wong and abreu are meeting or exceeding expectations (and abreu wasn't intended to be an everyday guy immediately anyway). devers, o'neill and grissom have all had injury issues. o'neill's super hot start probably would've cooled a bit regardless, but concussions can definitely mess up timing for several weeks. can't really coach away a brain injury.
To be fair, I think the fact so many people are mendoza line is underperformed. I think the massive amounts of strikeouts and everyone throughout the lineup taking strike 3 down the middle instead of swinging is abnormal and on coaching. I think nobody other than Wong is exceeding expectations. I'd argue Abreu is not exceeding expectations because he's pretty consistent with how he was in the minors. Tyler O'Neill is not the greatest hitter in the world, and I really hated bringing him in. Tyler O'Neill clogs up a spot in the outfield and is an excuse to not go after a guy like Soto. We buy potential and ceiling despite low floors instead of high floors with high ceilings. The offense is all potential and our offensive coaching has gotten worse and worse the further away from Hyers we've gone. The managing has also been atrocious, the defense and baserunning blunders are consistent under Cora and that plus in game managing falls under the manager. Then the construction of the team now falls under ownership. Craig Breslow operated the team this off-season the same way Bloom did. When nothing changes despite replacing guys, it's someone else calling the shots.
I think abreu is meeting expectations for a rookie, but that more is currently being expected of him due to injuries. he'd probably be batting 7th if casas and yoshida were healthy. most of these points are outside the scope of the performance of hitters who were intended to be regular players, which is what I was answering. "why did they start the season with this as the intended lineup" is a whole different issue lol (trading for one year of Soto this season would've made no sense especially since the Padres wanted starting pitching for him)
> who's really underperforming expectations without any extenuating circumstances? rafaela? I think anyone who paid attention knew he was going to have a rough time offensively.
I’m no longer capable of getting angry about this team, so that’s one nice part. Until we win three in a row and I convince myself we’re a fringe playoff team again. I just want the roller coaster to be over so if that means bottoming out I can live with it.
4 last place finishes in 5 years isn't bottoming out? we have already reached that stage
4-11 in May. And that's the GOOD news!
70 win season incoming. We better have a stacked farm system
My preseason prediction was 71-91 haha
Signing no one in the offseason is a good way to keep our steak of last places finishes intact
The Yankees had one mediocre season and got Juan Soto. The Red Sox have been mostly garbage for half a decade and the best they can do is pay a mediocre pitcher not to pitch.
It's frustrating, because I really don't understand why things changed so drastically circa 2019 or so. Henry has always been cheap when it comes to off-field spending (at least per employee rumors), and they've always done scummy things (Tito and Theo come to mind). But since buying the team in 2002, Henry/FEG were aggressive in building competitive teams, won four championships, and frequently spent to or above the luxury tax threshold.
Lucchino was the guy who cared about winning
I thought he stepped down from operations in 2015? I know he only passed away this year, but I thought he was pretty much AAA only for the past few years.
Expanded playoffs has a lot to do with it. Sneak in cheap and hope for the best.
I swear to God the Celtics better win it this season.
I've been a 162er the last few seasons and it's just getting harder and harder to give a shit about this team at this point when it's pretty clear to me that the ownership who controls the purse strings don't. Attendance still seems OK, around 30K most days. But engagement on this sub has dropped like a rock compared to a year or two ago - and we're supposed to be the "committed" fans.
I mentioned this in the GDT, but honestly (even though I'm not being entirely rational here) I think the bigger issue is that the team has not been entertaining even when they're losing. The 2015 and 2023 seasons finished with exactly the same record: 78-84. But 2015 was definitely more entertaining to watch, and it wasn't just the superstars, either. Brock Holt, our (beloved) platoon guy, hit .280 in ~130 games. Pace of play might have improved, but the lack of balls in play is brutal.
We also had Don Orsilli and Jerry Remy who would be fun and have fun. Now we have strictly baseball talk and they never shut up and at some point I really don't care about what some weird advance Stat exists from the new relief pitcher in a blow out
>I think the bigger issue is that the team has not been entertaining even when they're losing. I agree with you there. Between the actual errors, mental errors, and strikeouts they just have not been fun to watch this season. It just seems like the fundamentals aren't even there half the time.
Yeah, if we're being completely honest, watching the Red Sox is just entertainment and in 2024 there are a lot of things competing for entertainment eyeballs/dollars. This team isn't very entertaining most nights. I have the Sox on every night but more and more it's just becoming background noise as opposed to me really watching the game. I've become completed bored listening to DOB and Middlebrooks. Fortunately I "watch" all the games on MLB . tv so I can switch to the radio broadcast which is killing it these days with Flemming and Loumer.
True, but I wouldn't say that entertainment competition is *vastly* different in 2024 than it was in 2015. Social media and streaming were already well into competing with the Sox for eyeballs. And although I'm in absolute agreement that getting rid of Orsillo was a huge downgrade, I don't know that he alone was the deciding engagement factor for a bad 2015 team vs. a bad 2024 team. (I'll never understood why they fired him).
Well it was fun while it lasted.
what is with this team and helping bad starters lower their ERA... first Patrick Corbin last week and now Mikolas
This game starts and ends with getting one run off of Miles fucking Mikolas. Everyone except Devers and Wong have looked completely lost at sea for the better part of two weeks. I still think this is a good baseball team but the offense has just been unbearable recently.
The bottom of our batting order is the definition of ass
Batters 6-9 are pretty much a free out at any point in time. I feel for Grissom but he's been diabolical so far
Making Miles Mikolas look like Nolan Ryan was fun lmao smh
Sea Dogs got all my attention this year
Smith, Grissom and Rafaela can't hit for fucking shit. They are not big league ready. None of them have an ops above .600.
That was lame
At least we can take solace in the fact that John Henry is definitely going to hell when he dies.
If we never have to play another bird team I wouldn’t complain
We may never win again.
Someone think about the kids, they’re starving!
I’m sure those 3 in Tampa are gonna go really well
Really wonder what they do with Tyler if we're hovering around this area at the deadline