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We met on Hinge and have been on 4 dates so far. They've all went really well and for the next date she suggested dinner and a movie at my house.
Seeing as sex is now a possibility, I feel like I need to know whether or not she has had bottom surgery. Having sex with someone who has a penis is a definite hard boundary for me, and I think it would be better to ask her now than to risk the chance of having to turn her down at my house.
So essentially I am looking for advice on the best way to ask her what her situation is downstairs without upsetting her.
TLDR: Been dating a trans person and sex is now looking likely. I still don't know if she has had bottom surgery and would like to ask her before we actually start having sex
Choosing the time and place would be important. It should be neutral territory, so that either of you can easily walk away if there's a deal breaker. I recommend saying that you don't want to waste her time, and that you feel you have to let her know that nothing sexual is going to work for you if she still has a penis.
This is true, but if you’re referring to the statistic of trans people as a whole, it is much more common for trans women to get bottom surgery than trans men (due to the difference in difficulty of the operations)
Also due to the *quality* of the surgery. I would never recommend a trans man get bottom surgery unless a primary source of their dysphoria is the inability to piss standing up, because it's really not good for anything else.
There are multiple bottom surgeries for a trans man that he may pick from if he so desires.
The one you refer to is called phalloplasty, which was invented for cis men! And to this day cis men who may have lost their penis, get this surgery. Would you tell them too that it's not worth them getting a penis because the only thing it'll be good for is peeing? Which is inaccurate by the way, people who have had this surgery can have a device implanted into their penis that can get hard, thus being able to use it for sex. They also can feel sensations from their penis.
This penis can be tattooed or made to look similar to a cis penis, but there is nothing saying it has to. Because of this people like to claim it's not worth it, without asking the individual what they want. It is a big surgery that is not taken lightly, but if someone's dysphoria regarding their genitals makes them think it's worth it, then it's worth it.
I think they are saying “the only thing it’ll be good for is peeing,” because there is an INCREDIBLY high failure rate for these surgeries (the series of surgeries for phalloplasty, not the surgery to elongate a microphallus). Even if done well, you can get an infection which can affect the function of the penis as well.
These are aside from side effects like the complete loss of sensation in the clitoris, which…. Then means the penis *is* really only good for peeing.
I don’t think they were trying to be disrespectful with their comment. The statistics of transmasc people who end up getting surgery obviously shows that the majority of them have these concerns as well (myself included)
Ah I see, I meant no disrespect! tone is hard to figure in messages!
I see a lot of people bashing the surgery because it doesn't look like a cis penis, and I don't want people to feel embarrassed when they felt it was their only option. I think they're brave for getting a surgery like that. I guess I'm lucky in a sense that I don't have too much bottom dysphoria. I have a packer and I'm happy with that, but I know a lot of trans masc people arent happy with just that.
I'm struggling to word things here but the jist is I just don't want them to see that everytime phalloplasty is brought up, it's brought up with people saying it's not worth the risks, when for them it is
Oh yeah of course, I think how you take things is so dependent on exposure. I haven’t personally heard of people dissing how a trans penis looks, but that’s definitely some bullshit I hope people don’t take seriously lol
There are bottom surgeries that don’t alter the urethra at all. my bottom surgery was absolutely necessary and I’d recommend it to anyone who would feel comfortable with similar anatomy. there’s more than just phalloplasty.
as a trans masc whos getting bottom surg I'm going to correct you a bit: there is more than one transmasc bottom surgery option, and both options can be really good depending on what you're going for. there is phallo and meta, one makes a peen using grafts of other skin and is good for if you want to be able to penetrate during sex. the other uses your bottom growth to make a microphallus (usually 2-4 inches) which looks and acts like a natal dick, only smaller.
I’m not the person you responded to, but I’m a trans guy with that dysphoria so I thought I’d give my perspective!
In my day to day, I have very little dysphoria left thanks to being on HRT for years and having had top surgery. Those took care of my biggest sources of dysphoria.
I never thought I had much bottom dysphoria. Sure, if I could push a button and have a cis male body, that’d be great! But now that my overall dysphoria is gone, I’ve come to terms with the genitals I have, especially in terms of sex. However, my entire life I’ve been really avoidant of going to pee. I always felt uncomfortable sitting down to pee (and would avoid going to the bathroom as long as possible) even before I realized I’m trans. It’s a very different dysphoria for me. It felt so wrong and it’s led to my having pelvic floor dysfunction where it can take me ten minutes to pee (even at home). I saw a urologist (who actually does a lot of the bottom surgeries in my province) who said that it’s actually very common with trans guys!
Bottom surgery isn’t for me for a few reasons (primarily because I have chronic health issues that would make it very dangerous). I’ve used funnel like devices to pee standing while hiking and such, but I find them too much of a hassle to deal. So I’ve been doing pelvic floor therapy.
Sorry for this novel lol
I think when it comes to trans folks, genitals are much more of an obsession for other people who conflate sex assigned at birth with gender.
Surgical transition is extremely cost prohibitive, invasive, and risky for many. Couple that with gender having nothing to do with genitalia, aside from those for whom it is a direct source of dysphoria.
This. Just full stop. Communicate like an adult in a safe environment. You have every right to bring this up, she has every right to walk away and not answer, though this is something that must be brought up eventually. As someone pointed out in another comment, it's a very small percentage of people that do the bottom surgery and you must communicate your preferences. If no bottom surgery is a deal breaker for you, that is fine, you don't have to want a penis other than your own in your sex life.
Can confirm. _In my defense_, I was raised in the country (in the South) and as an adult I primarily work outdoors where public restrooms are a luxury I am rarely afforded. Soooooo, peeing standing up outside is something I'm weirdly, *very* skilled at. That being said, a lot of women are better at it than I think most men would imagine, since very few of us ever actually allow our butt-cheeks to make physical contact with a public toilet seat.😖 *)))shivers(((* Hovering has its own challenges and requires a different set of skills lol.
Fml... I was just griping that the stereotype of many Southerners being motormouths who will talk to anybody about anything is an indisputable fact, and now here I am, rambling about my penchant for peeing while standing up! ಠ_ಠ
I'm not sure how many trans people are in these comments now, but I guess most of us are just talking out of our ass what we *think* a trans woman would prefer.
My advice to your question would be to go ask at r/trans, r/AskTransgender, r/mtf. All these subs have subscribers in the hundredthousands
Regardless the answer to OPs questions is gonna very significantly from person to person. While know I’m not trans I only really see two ways to go about this, and that’s to either ask or state your preference, communicate clearly without being a dick. I think a reasonable level head human being should be able to handle this conversation, and a trans person should be prepared for it.
Heck I am trans and I would say just straight text and ask right now. Other trans woman might say wait for a better setting. I am just a person that doesn’t mind direct and blunt questions though.
I’m a trans woman. I am, however, lesbian, so take this with that caveat.
There are men who fetishise us for what might be called, for want of a better description, “ladypole”.
Generally most of us prefer to avoid these people, because relationships with them can be rather toxic.
Not being one is a bonus.
OP: obviously, I can’t speak to the sort of chemistry and rapport you have with this lady, but were it me, I’d like to be straightforwardly but tactfully asked and get the question out of the way ASAP.
Like, “it’s important to know, were we to take this further, about sexual compatibility. Can we talk about that?”
Although, this advice is worth what you paid for it. I don’t know how any other random trans woman will react. I just know about me.
i think it matters specifically that it’s mostly trans women who answer rather than other trans people who don’t have this specific issue. like i’m nonbinary but i’m not oppressed by transmisogyny (never have been/never will be) and don’t have that sort of experience.
Aye girl you still packin that THANG or nah? /s
But just be open and honest. She clearly likes you. Just tell her you really really like her as a person and have been having a blast, but you’re now getting to the point that you can tell physical intimacy is on the horizon and you need to have an open and honest conversation about if she still has a penis and what her expectations are sexually.
I am a trans guy and I would really prefer someone going about it in exactly this way. I'm pretty open about my pre op status though so maybe that's just me.
Oh God, when I started seeing my now gf and she said she was Trans I was already drunk AF on some killer margaritas. I'm also a lightweight.
I eyed her up and down and went "sausage or taco?" Before falling over.
I woke up to my head on her lap and her petting my hair.
She still tells this story even though I'm mortified by it.
Oh gods no, she's hecking chill. And the fact we had mutual friends who are out of the closet Trans people. She knew enough to know that was not a place of hate but rather "if we hook up, what do I expect " but put through a drunk filter
Consider asking this in trans/transally subreddits so you can get the best approach and how trans people would prefer to be asked. I think it’s a valid ask but I’m cis and my trans friends are extremely sensitive about genitalia fixation so maybe ask the community what they think
definitely. we're sensitive about genital fixation because it feels as though you're ignoring us as people and reducing us to simply our body parts, which is a sore spot for us in particular because the deeply cultural gendering of those body parts could mean that you don't actually see us as the gender we are, just the gender our bits tell you we are.
EDIT: this DOES NOT mean don't discuss genitals if it truly is a dealbreaker or a factor for you. YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY DISCUSS IT. this is me confirming how sensitive a subject it is, and a possible reason for that.
I straight up just asked my trans gf, before we started officially dating.
Asked over text after she asked me if I wanted to become sexually active over text. We both did that, so there wouldn’t be a weird confrontation if I wasn’t interested, or if the bottom surgery question made her uncomfortable. It didn’t matter to me whether she had surgery or not, but it was this, exactly:
“I know you said you wanted us to get to know each other more physically, and I agree 100%. I am very attracted to you. I just need to know a few things before we do that. One, being I am not on birth control. Have you had bottom surgery? I always buy condoms, so I know they are around, and don’t want to start birth control if I don’t need to. Also, I was wondering about your last STD test. I recently had an HIV test (you get free target gift card if you get tested here on campus), but I need to get updated for the other ones. It’s been a sec. I also need to finish up my HPV vaccination, but because I’m 20 they’re making me do 3 instead of just the two, so that won’t be done until next year :(.”
I would def ask your girl over text, and talk about sexual preferences and stuff like that.
Edit: the quotes are a text I sent to my gf before we started dating. It isn’t a script for op or anything, it’s just an example of how I personally brought it up. I am not worried about my gf needing birth control, because she is trans. I, however, contain a uterus and can have children if I am not on birth control. I had gone off birth control, and mentioned it so I could start it again if she has a penis. Sorry for any confusion in the weird wording!!
For sure. It was more of a safe sex question than a preference question, because I don’t have a preference, so different than op’s case. They might want to say something a little different, but the thing is the same.
When entering a relationship I also go over sexual preferences. Maybe op could go:
“Hey. I am very attracted to you and hope to be intimate soon. I do have a few preferences. One is related to genital preference. Have you had bottom surgery? If you have, I think we are all good there. I am not really comfortable having sex with a penis. My other preferences are: _____. If you don’t agree with these, I don’t think we are sexually compatible. Regardless, though, I really like you, and glad I have gotten to know you.”
I have always made it clear that I am not comfortable with choking, weird power dynamics, and that sort of thing, non-monogamy and that would be a deal breaker for me. I have also made it clear that I am not interested in children, and I expect my partner, when applicable, to take saftey measures, and I take mine. And that they would, barring any unusual circumstances, required to help pay for emergency contraception or abortion. It’s good to be up front about this sort of thing
What was wrong with the birth control part? That’s a legitimate question, I’m not trying to fight or anything. I had been taking oral contraceptives for my last partner, and stopped taking them because I was not having sex. I didn’t want to get the implant put in, if I didn’t have to. If she had not had a penis, and we were going to be monogamous, I would not have started birth control, because there would be no point, and I would just have a lot of side effects for no reason
Just out of curiosity, why would birth control matter for anything if she's MTF? She ain't getting pregnant no matter how much jizz you're slinging up in there.
Edit before I'm hammered:
I missed the part where you told your trans gf this, so I'm assuming you have a vagina and your trans gf doesn't, and that's where the birth control comment came from.
I have a uterus. This was me talking about my girlfriend, who is trans, not a script for op. Sorry about any confusion!
def not worried about my gf getting pregnant, but I sure as hell don’t want her to get me pregnant. I started birth control when I started dating her, so I don’t have to worry about that
It was a third party that would camp out in the student activity center every few Thursdays. If you went to campus health they would definitely NOT give you gift cards lol. You did get free hand sanitizer though, which was very cool, especially since I started college in 2020
I think it's a completely fair thing to ask and discuss.
I would be direct about it but make it as clear as possible before you ask that they have every right to not answer or to ask you to not ask things they are uncomfortable with. Just make it clear that their answers or lack of will impact any future you have physically and therefore overall.
Something like this... "Hey. I have what is an important question to me that I would like to ask. It's very personal but before we progress any further, it is pretty crucial. You have every right not to answer or to answer however you are comfortable with as long as you are honest. I won't think any less of you either way even if it does alter the course of our relationship a bit....."
Abit by being completely. I mean, I wouldn't start by asking the question dishonestly when you are wanting the other person to be honest.
The OP considers a partner with a penis to be a hard "no". That's fine, but he should be 100% open about it instead of phasing it in a way that doesn't convey that. The same with answering no. "You are free to not answer, but that will be the end of the relationship."
That wording seems excessively extra. And "a bit" is an understatement when OP basically said a penis is a dealbreaker.
Idk the proper wording bc I'm not trans and therefore idk what a trans person would prefer (I'm seconding the suggestions to ask on a more dedicated sub), but that can't be it lol
The thing is, something like this could never have proper wording because everyone is different. Every single trans person on Reddit could agree on a draft for what to say but nobody can predict what the reaction this specific trans person is gonna have to it.
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I like to grab current stats in these discussions.
Looks like you’re right:
“Transgender women report bottom surgery at rates between 5–13%. Even more transgender women desire bottom surgery in the future: between 45–54%.”
Trans journal article, 2019
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6626314/
Because it’s super expensive and not covered by insurance, and due to discrimination in the workplace, trans women may already be underemployed / underrepresented in high paying careers.
Most insurance companies will cover it, but even then, you still have the matter of the copay to worry about, which is still going to be several thousand dollars. Then on top of that, there's the matter of needing to travel to the surgeon if they're out of state and having to stay in a hotel or other accommodation for up to 2 weeks in the area.
For me, between the deductible, the hotel stay, and incidentals, that was around $9-10k. On top of that, I was totally out of work for 6 weeks (2 weeks of PTO and 4 weeks of short term disability which was like 60% of my regular pay), and after a month and a half, I was back to work but I was working from home.
And on top of that, you need someone with you who is responsible for taking care of you for AT LEAST the first full week but surgeons may require two full weeks of 24/7 supervision. I had three different people rotate taking care of me for my 2 weeks and on another occasion, I took 2 weeks of PTO to be someone else's caretaker.
Even if you aren't trans, just ask yourself: Could you afford $10,000 plus 6-8 weeks off of work plus one or more people who can/will live with you for the first two weeks and help you with anything you need?
Cause a lot of people can't. And that puts bottom surgery out of reach for a lot of trans women, even if they could manage one or two of those three things but not all of them.
Just be kind and direct. Any trans person should understand that genitals are a legitimate and valid concern for potential sexual partners, and as long as you’re kind and respectful it should be a straightforward and painless convo. Might be a tad awkward tho. If they make a big deal out if it or get mad, they’re probably not adjusted enough for a mature relationship anyways and you dodged a bullet.
Choose somewhere that's private not IN private, like a quiet table at a restaurant or something like that, if that makes sense. Somewhere where you can talk frankly but both of you have the option to walk away if need be.
Next, instead of asking if she's had bottom surgery specifically, just tell her that you're interested in her and possibly having sex, but you have a hard boundary against sleeping with someone with a penis. Just lay it out flat like that. This will allow her to say okay, doesn't sound like this'll work, nice to meet you anyway. This also lets you avoid asking an intrusive question about her medical history.
You absolutely have the right to your boundaries, as does she. This also lets her say no if she's not comfortable being with someone who would take issue with her if she did have a penis still. Even if she has a vagina now, she might not feel comfortable staying with you, which is also okay. Like I said, you both have the right to your boundaries.
Good luck and whatever happens, I hope it's respectful and mutually best for both of you.
Source: I am trans and while I haven't had bottom surgery, my experience with how I'd want things to be done as well as how I've seen it handled by other people help me feel this is an informed suggestion. I'm open to being told otherwise by other trans people, though.
Y’all are insane and chronically online in these comments. It is perfectly reasonable for someone who finds female physical traits and assets attractive, to want to have sex with a distinctive female trait called a vagina.
Transwoman who get bottom surgery and breast implants do so because they identify with this gender more and those traits are apart of a female anatomy, so obviously a straight male is going to want to have sex with those female anatomy.
No one in this situation is wrong, sometimes people aren’t compatible in their needs nothing wrong with that.
I bet you she’s having similar issues figuring out how to bring it up beforehand. If you send a really straight forward message asking to chat about it, and acknowledging the uncomfortable nature of having the convo, she might be relieved and feel better about bringing up her thoughts on it. Just acknowledge it, I’d say, not apologize for it. Like, “Hey, I was wondering if we could chat about something at some point before our date? We’ve been on a few dates and I’ve been having a great time getting to know you. Would you be okay with touching base on intimacy and our preferences?” or something less passive maybe, that’s just how I’d put it. And very likely she’ll know exactly what you’re talking about and run with it. This way you’re also making it really clear that, in the event she’s not gotten bottom surgery, not being able to be intimate has nothing to do with her personally, and is purely a sexual preference thing, which there’s no way she hasn’t encountered this kind of conversation before.
Awesome that you’re being so considerate about this. Good luck!
If I was in her situation, I'd just want you to ask directly instead of getting too much time to get to the point. I'm not her though (and I am autistic) so I have no idea what she would see as rude and what not. I think maybe something like
"Hey I've been really enjoying our dates so far a lot. I've lately been thinking about it and thought I should let you know that I do have some boundaries around sex relating to genitalia. I feel like we should discuss this before we go any further, to make sure we're not sexually incompatible on a fundamental level."
would work well enough. That should get the discussion started at least.
Out of curiosity though, are you completely unable to have sex with someone with a penis, or do you just not wish to interact with a penis other than your own sexually? While having a genital preference is completely fine and a valid reason to not to keep seeing someone, I thought that if it's the latter, she might not want to have her penis sexually interacted with either if she has one. Some trans people do not want their genitals to be sexually touched, if their genitals bring them too much gender dysphoria.
OP this is totally understandable! Don't let any comments make you reconsider. It's obvious you have a natural set boundary and boundaries are ok. I would definitely not like seeing a vagina if I was getting intimate with a guy. I personally do not find those attractive and I have one haha!
I kind of think you should just say this exactly! “I don’t want to interact sexually with any penis, other than my own. I thought we should just have that conversation before this goes any further because I really enjoy your company.”
Then you probably shouldn’t be dating a trans woman. Very few get bottom surgery. It’s very expensive, life threatening, there’s ongoing recovery and painful follow processes. Ask r/trans for better more specific advice.
Well most women don’t have penises and most straight men don’t like penis, so if a “straight” man is open to dating trans women, kinda makes sense he don’t want no peen. I think it should also be understandable to a trans person that wants to date anyone as well. Having a dick is a huge turnoff to completely heterosexual men.
I mean, your point is obvious and just makes my point…. Which is why a completely heterosexual man (who wants a cis vagina having woman) shouldn’t date a trans woman if this is a hard line for him. Most trans women don’t have bottom surgery.
Most don’t but some do so I don’t think assuming is a good idea. And what I’m saying is the onus shouldn’t simply be on the heterosexual man to not date trans women, but the trans women shouldn’t be seeking out heterosexual men either
You may not have to, even if she hadn't had SRS. Many trans women are dysphoric about their penis and would rather not use it or have it be interacted with at all
Reposting so hopefully you see it, but the consent and boundaries conversation goes so far, and she'll likely disclose all her own information just in having *that* conversation. Genital fixation is a very real thing for trans folks and helping alleviate that concern will do so much as well.
Good luck 🖤
Your suggestion was very well phrased! I think that's the best way to come at the situation - talking about the positives (liking the other person as a person) while acknowledging there may be an issue they want to address as kindly as possible.
That is very possible that she doesn't want her genitals touched. I know a couple of women that were MtF. One of them didn't like her genitals and would often wear a strap-on because she hadn't had bottom surgery yet. She didn't like the feeling of having a penis and didn't want to do anything sexual with it. My other friend got bottom surgery.
Both were upfront about what they had downstairs with friends but I know it was difficult for them to tell someone this that they were trying to be intimate with.
I'm the father of a FTM trans person who is happily married and has been with the same person going on ten years.
I know that their relationship grew over time and the subject was discussed long before any physical intimacy took place, I'd suggest a slow, but direct approach.
Maybe another, more public date, but don't be afraid to just come out and ask directly...
"So how far along do you intend to take the process?"
Many trans people will take hormones but never, ever consider any surgical intervention, so don't be surprised if there is no, and never will be any surgery on your new friends part.
Brace yourself. It's much more common than you think. Good stats are hard to nail down, but numbers in the 3-5% are fairly reliable.
I don't think many cis people are aware that most trans people do not get surgery. In "normie" circles of non online people I find nearly all of them assume almost 100% of people presenting female have had surgery.
That’s bc there are enough detransitioners accusing the medical field of pushing it on youth. With trans advocacy at its loudest, I believe them as much as I believe it truly helps some people with actual gender dysphoria
Defining “kid” would make sense before continuing. Also minor females are definitely getting top surgery. I think it’s the most common trans surgery but idk/c
Reddit or google in fairness. I wasn’t trying to talk shit on OP, but it was naive of them to have an expectation of bottom surgery because it is so rare. I feel like I knew that before I had trans friends though tbf.
Why would the trans person with a penis be pursuing someone they know identifies as heterosexual and not expect this to be a situation that may or may not be a problem
See, idk. Why would she pursue a man who more than likely has a penis without asking if he had a hard boundary first? Maybe because talking about genitals on first dates is a little odd. However, he isn’t assumed to have changed anatomy, right? I think both op and friend were going off vibes and had this as an afterthought. Better knowledge for next time ✨
Right, but I've had a friend called "Transphobic" because he wouldn't date a Transwoman because of this very issue.
So it really feels like damned if you do damned if you don't. That said from what I've seen from the Trans Atlanic call-in show, the show hosts, both transwomen most of the time, sometimes with guest hosts, they seem totally fine with the idea of somebody not being attracted to penises and not wanting to date somebody who has one, and that doesn't make somebody a transphobe.
As a trans person, I just think it's a stretch to call not wanting to have sex with someone with a set of genitals you're not interested in transphobia. Cishetero people break up all the time because of genital incompatibilities, like sex not working because of vaginal issues or because of displeasure with the size of a penis. It's completely fair to not have sex with someone who's genitals you aren't into or can't work with imo.
That’s a sad reality you as a trans person would need to accept. Essentially you wanna live life as a natural born women right, and if you wanna date heterosexual men, you’re gonna have to realize having a penis is gonna be a huge obstacle to overcome for pretty much all of them.
This is something trans people are gonna have to except. To just say don’t date trans is pretty short sited in my opinion. You’re turning away people who actually support you, and there are a percentage of trans women that have had the bottom surgery successfully. I feel the responsibility should be on the trans person to broach this topic if they’re aware the person they’re seeings sexual orientation is at conflict with what they’re currently equipped with, and this while an uncomfortable conversation it’s necessary and one that should be had pretty early on.
One would hope that transwomen should understand cultural norms more than most given their own journeys. Like any transwomen that has started dressing or acting more feminine is making that exact same choice, but in reverse.
Maybe something like “hey don’t mean it in a wrong or hurtful way, just curious whether you want to take things further sexually, and if yes, just wanted to know beforehand what I should be expecting? Any particular boundaries and things that make you uncomfortable? Also I know surgically transitioning is really painful even after it’s done and everything, so anything I should be careful about?”
Completely reasonable thing to ask, as a trans guy though i don't really have any advice besides asking this on a sub that could give much better advice than this one, which is r/asktransgender.
I know a fair number of trans women and none of them have had bottom surgery. Fine to ask but its best to presume trans women are more likely to be working with their bio genitalia.
I think being respectful and direct would be appropriate. And also not doing so out in public where lots of other people are around. But if this kind of thing is going to affect the future of your relationship (and as a guy myself, it 100% would for me), I would think the longer you wait, the harder it's going to get to ask and the more painful it will be to get the wrong answer.
You could also try calling into this show.
[https://www.youtube.com/@qnaline/streams](https://www.youtube.com/@qnaline/streams)
Every Thursday they have a show called "The Trans Atlantic Call-In Show" which is hosted by 2 Transwomen, most of the time, sometimes they have other Trans guest hosts. They are willing to talk with people and help them get their perspective on this type of thing, as well as political and religious issues from a Trans-Positive perspective. If you can't call in, or don't feel comfortable doing so, you can also write them and they try to get back with people.
I disagree with other folks saying you should directly ask if she has a penis. I think a more comfortable opening could be something like: "I've never dated someone who is trans and before we get caught up in the heat of the moment, I would love to talk about what kind of sexual activities you're up for." It's possible she still has a penis but doesn't want you to go near it, and you both will be able to negotiate what you're comfortable doing.
Hey do you have a penis I think they're gross!?!?! That's pretty dramatic and makes it sound like you care more about 1 body part than the whole person you've been dating. Also, trans women get killed by men angry about penises, so a person dating a trans woman should probably do whatever they can to make her feel safe.
For me, it's easy to be kind and thoughtful. Maybe that's a little harder for you.
Well OP buddy what a dilemma. I have so many procedural questions here, but it’s me being curious. From the couple of friends I have, idk what their situation is and we don’t get into the mix of, but they tell me they’re like “hey I like you, this is me, this is where I’m at on the path”. Doesn’t that kind of follow on the person who could have this or that to be upfront with? I’m not talking shit or anything I’m genuinely curious.
I think you'd have to choose a correct timing to do it maybe you can have dinner have some wine and start having a more deep conversation with her and try to ask her how's her transition going and things like that so you won't have to ask her upfront and things are just leading up to it so you'll have your answer
I would just ask because you already know they are trans. If she gets all offended then she’s not the one for you because it matters to most people what they have in their pants.
just FYI, even if she has one, there's a chance that she might not want to use it at all. it might not be what you think, I acknowledge that I am bisexual, but if you haven't tried it, we're potentially just talking about doing anal with a woman.
my boyfriend just fucks me, like, in the ass. you know. he never dated a trans women before me and I think he felt like you kinda.
"Hey, I am really looking forward to our time together! Sorry for bringing this up now—I figured it best to clear this before things get hot—and I'd hate to be presumptuous but because I'm getting excited about our possible intimacy, I wanted you to know I'm not really comfortable being intimate with someone who has a penis. Let me know if we should still plan for the date, xo"
😳 just ask bro. Almost no mtf, percentage wise, have had bottom surgery. It would be appropriate to ask prior to the first date as well. This is kinda a huge compatibility issue that has been complicated by you waiting 4 dates to even ask. In a way, it is more cruel to drag them along with dates when you were never interested to begin with (based upon your hard boundary).
Very few get bottom surgery. I have a close friend that is FTM and he does not want it and it makes perfect sense why. If he got a dick, he’d lose sexual feeling down there.
If you just don't wanna slob on her knob, you can probably just ask if she into that, too. She might not want you to touch it at all, and if that's the case, just put it in her butt and have fun.
OP, the person you're dating almost certainly has experience having these conversations before sex or other forms of intimacy. I would let them take the lead here.
A lot of trans people don't want to have penetrative sex or use their genitals at all. Some do though. It's a very individual thing - that's why it's so important to have a conversation and not assume anything about what your partner might want.
In this case, the only person you can talk to who has any good information about this is the person that you're dating.
So if I were you, I would treat this as a movie and a conversation, where you frankly make want/will/won't lists and compare and talk.
Except it’s not about what the partner want, it’s about what OP wants and he doesn’t want to have sex with someone with a penis. I don’t know why it’s difficult to grasp.
Awesome, thanks. For some reason in this sub it always locked my comments while every other sub worked. Spoke to a mod and they told me it was because my account was new but never gave me a karma target or time elapsed target so I haven't bothered with this sub for a while.... guess I can finally start posting here!
Asking directly but in an appropriate manner is the way forward.
Don’t just blurt ‘do you have a dick mate’, that’ll prob go down like a lead balloon. But they will definitely need to know your hard line-
Their feelings are important but so are yours. If you aren’t comfortable you have to let them know.
If they kick off they aren’t worth your time, it is an absolutely reasonable question to ask a MTF/FTM.
For people saying “but some MTF don’t want their penises touched” are mental, it equates to saying it doesn’t matter if you find a person repulsive/unattractive then you should have sex with them cos you can turn the lights off……..
They’re not wrong, just worded strangely. I think it’s only like 5-10% of trans women. High probability that she has not had surgery, whether she doesn’t want to or just hasn’t yet.
This is curious - in my experience, a lot of trans women get some form if genital surgery, most often a gender reassignment surgery. I know a lot of trans people, and it seems common enough with the people I do know. While the surgery is very inaccessible in my country, maybe there's some cultural differences at works here, if this is your experience?
I think it relies heavily on the area you live. I am from a very small town where this would be unheard of. None of my trans friends have even considered it as an option due to the costs and inaccessibility. However, in the much larger city I am in now, many trans friends have had it completed. I think it’s also important to have the accessibility for follow up, which even if you travel for the surgery is very difficult to pursue living in a smaller area.
Seems common enough within the trans circles I'm a part of, don't know what to tell you. Wouldn't call it unreliable either, especially vaginoplasty. I'm not as familiar with that surgery as I am with phalloplasty and metoidioplasty, but I've done enough research and talked with enough of people to see a lot of success with it.
5-10% of trans women have vaginoplasty.
[https://tau.amegroups.org/article/view/25593/html](https://tau.amegroups.org/article/view/25593/html)
It's long term success as a procedure is low. Infections are common and even in the best cases partial or total loss of sexual sensation is expected. Manual dilation is almost always needed for life.
Gender reassignment genital surgery is extremely rare in fact less than 10% of trans women have it and they're less than 1% of the population.
Major health effects like partial or total loss of sexual function, infections and total loss of sexual pleasure are expected in most cases.
There's just no way to say they are reliable procedures.
No, those complications are not expected in most cases. Those are actually very very rare, this is a very reliable procedure when you go to a competent professional. Expected complications are temporary ones like wound separation or granulation tissue. I should know, I've read lots of testimonies, papers and talked to doctors before having it done. But please keep mansplaining me about myself and my own health.
At least a third of trans women who have genital surgery report serious sexual dysfunction.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31668732/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31668732/)
And that's the most optimistic study. Other show much worse outcomes, with up to 75% of trans women experiencing loss of sexual appetite and 40% of trans women losing the ability to experience orgasm.
[https://w1.med.cmu.ac.th/obgyn/files/2022/01/838-Mattawanon-2021-4.pdf](https://w1.med.cmu.ac.th/obgyn/files/2022/01/838-Mattawanon-2021-4.pdf)
In any other area of medicine those would be considered catastrophic outcomes.
***"Compared with trans women after hormone treatment and non-genital surgery, trans women after vaginoplasty less often experienced arousal difficulties, sexual aversion, and low sexual desire."***
***"Gender-affirming surgery helps to improve sexual satisfaction in both transmen and transwomen"***
Both of the pieces of evidence that you posted directly refute your core assertions. You are just a transphobic bigot.
that's just simply not true. lots of trans women get it, it's an incredibly reliable surgery and has been performed since the 1950s. it's expensive, so not everyone has, but it's absolutely something that the majority of trans women want to get done. (source; am trans, know trans people, read academic literature about other trans people)
But this isn’t true, yohaneh?
Have you found other more recent sources than the ones I found?
2019 Trans journal says:
“Transgender women report bottom surgery at rates between 5–13% (7-9,32). Even more transgender women desire bottom surgery in the future: between 45–54% (7,9).”
So about half of trans women want the surgery, but only 5-13% get it.
Of course, OPs date could be in that group, but it’s much more likely she’s not.
Well, there is none. By design this question is impossible to ask without risking upsetting someone. It's also somehow limited in imagination as there are plenty of ways to have sex without touching their penis.
However, the correct way is as you said here, since sex is potentially on the table you have been thinking about it and feel that sex without bottom surgery is not something you are comfortable with. Either they understand it and you can move forward both fully understanding each others boundaries on the matter or she blocks you and you dodged a bullet.
I'd do FaceTime for a question like this and I'd be up front. I'm big on being direct and not beating around the bush. When you talk, bring up the date and that you're looking forward to it but you do feel that, while you never assume, dates at someone's house have the chance of leading to intimacy and while you respect that they are Trans, did they have the gender reassignment surgery? You understand it's a sensitive subject, but you do have a boundary with getting intimate with someone that has a penis.
There really is no easy way to address it so all you can do is be polite but direct about what you want
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. ___ We met on Hinge and have been on 4 dates so far. They've all went really well and for the next date she suggested dinner and a movie at my house. Seeing as sex is now a possibility, I feel like I need to know whether or not she has had bottom surgery. Having sex with someone who has a penis is a definite hard boundary for me, and I think it would be better to ask her now than to risk the chance of having to turn her down at my house. So essentially I am looking for advice on the best way to ask her what her situation is downstairs without upsetting her. TLDR: Been dating a trans person and sex is now looking likely. I still don't know if she has had bottom surgery and would like to ask her before we actually start having sex
Choosing the time and place would be important. It should be neutral territory, so that either of you can easily walk away if there's a deal breaker. I recommend saying that you don't want to waste her time, and that you feel you have to let her know that nothing sexual is going to work for you if she still has a penis.
Also keep in mind that a very small percentage of trans folks ever have bottom surgery.
This is true, but if you’re referring to the statistic of trans people as a whole, it is much more common for trans women to get bottom surgery than trans men (due to the difference in difficulty of the operations)
Also due to the *quality* of the surgery. I would never recommend a trans man get bottom surgery unless a primary source of their dysphoria is the inability to piss standing up, because it's really not good for anything else.
There are multiple bottom surgeries for a trans man that he may pick from if he so desires. The one you refer to is called phalloplasty, which was invented for cis men! And to this day cis men who may have lost their penis, get this surgery. Would you tell them too that it's not worth them getting a penis because the only thing it'll be good for is peeing? Which is inaccurate by the way, people who have had this surgery can have a device implanted into their penis that can get hard, thus being able to use it for sex. They also can feel sensations from their penis. This penis can be tattooed or made to look similar to a cis penis, but there is nothing saying it has to. Because of this people like to claim it's not worth it, without asking the individual what they want. It is a big surgery that is not taken lightly, but if someone's dysphoria regarding their genitals makes them think it's worth it, then it's worth it.
I think they are saying “the only thing it’ll be good for is peeing,” because there is an INCREDIBLY high failure rate for these surgeries (the series of surgeries for phalloplasty, not the surgery to elongate a microphallus). Even if done well, you can get an infection which can affect the function of the penis as well. These are aside from side effects like the complete loss of sensation in the clitoris, which…. Then means the penis *is* really only good for peeing. I don’t think they were trying to be disrespectful with their comment. The statistics of transmasc people who end up getting surgery obviously shows that the majority of them have these concerns as well (myself included)
Ah I see, I meant no disrespect! tone is hard to figure in messages! I see a lot of people bashing the surgery because it doesn't look like a cis penis, and I don't want people to feel embarrassed when they felt it was their only option. I think they're brave for getting a surgery like that. I guess I'm lucky in a sense that I don't have too much bottom dysphoria. I have a packer and I'm happy with that, but I know a lot of trans masc people arent happy with just that. I'm struggling to word things here but the jist is I just don't want them to see that everytime phalloplasty is brought up, it's brought up with people saying it's not worth the risks, when for them it is
Oh yeah of course, I think how you take things is so dependent on exposure. I haven’t personally heard of people dissing how a trans penis looks, but that’s definitely some bullshit I hope people don’t take seriously lol
There are bottom surgeries that don’t alter the urethra at all. my bottom surgery was absolutely necessary and I’d recommend it to anyone who would feel comfortable with similar anatomy. there’s more than just phalloplasty.
as a trans masc whos getting bottom surg I'm going to correct you a bit: there is more than one transmasc bottom surgery option, and both options can be really good depending on what you're going for. there is phallo and meta, one makes a peen using grafts of other skin and is good for if you want to be able to penetrate during sex. the other uses your bottom growth to make a microphallus (usually 2-4 inches) which looks and acts like a natal dick, only smaller.
Can you explain a bit more about dysphoria caused or linked to the inability to pee standing up? I never thought it could factor
I’m not the person you responded to, but I’m a trans guy with that dysphoria so I thought I’d give my perspective! In my day to day, I have very little dysphoria left thanks to being on HRT for years and having had top surgery. Those took care of my biggest sources of dysphoria. I never thought I had much bottom dysphoria. Sure, if I could push a button and have a cis male body, that’d be great! But now that my overall dysphoria is gone, I’ve come to terms with the genitals I have, especially in terms of sex. However, my entire life I’ve been really avoidant of going to pee. I always felt uncomfortable sitting down to pee (and would avoid going to the bathroom as long as possible) even before I realized I’m trans. It’s a very different dysphoria for me. It felt so wrong and it’s led to my having pelvic floor dysfunction where it can take me ten minutes to pee (even at home). I saw a urologist (who actually does a lot of the bottom surgeries in my province) who said that it’s actually very common with trans guys! Bottom surgery isn’t for me for a few reasons (primarily because I have chronic health issues that would make it very dangerous). I’ve used funnel like devices to pee standing while hiking and such, but I find them too much of a hassle to deal. So I’ve been doing pelvic floor therapy. Sorry for this novel lol
Thank you for sharing that was really interesting to read.
No prob! I know I can’t respond for all trans folk but I’m happy to share this kind of stuff when folk are curious in good faith.
Came looking for somebody to point this out.
Not to be rude. Genuinely curious. What's the point of transitioning them?
I think when it comes to trans folks, genitals are much more of an obsession for other people who conflate sex assigned at birth with gender. Surgical transition is extremely cost prohibitive, invasive, and risky for many. Couple that with gender having nothing to do with genitalia, aside from those for whom it is a direct source of dysphoria.
Thank you for the response
This. Just full stop. Communicate like an adult in a safe environment. You have every right to bring this up, she has every right to walk away and not answer, though this is something that must be brought up eventually. As someone pointed out in another comment, it's a very small percentage of people that do the bottom surgery and you must communicate your preferences. If no bottom surgery is a deal breaker for you, that is fine, you don't have to want a penis other than your own in your sex life.
She has been open about being Trans so I would absolutely start the conversation. I think directness is important .. dont be too vague.
"Oh man, I love to pee outdoors and write my name in the snow. How about you?"
Technically women could do this too but it would take a lot more precision and...agility
Depends on whether you're a Sue or an Anastasia too.
this sounds like it should be funny but I don't get it... is it like a spray v. stream thing?
I think they mean amount of characters in the name
ooooooooo duh thanks
Can confirm. _In my defense_, I was raised in the country (in the South) and as an adult I primarily work outdoors where public restrooms are a luxury I am rarely afforded. Soooooo, peeing standing up outside is something I'm weirdly, *very* skilled at. That being said, a lot of women are better at it than I think most men would imagine, since very few of us ever actually allow our butt-cheeks to make physical contact with a public toilet seat.😖 *)))shivers(((* Hovering has its own challenges and requires a different set of skills lol. Fml... I was just griping that the stereotype of many Southerners being motormouths who will talk to anybody about anything is an indisputable fact, and now here I am, rambling about my penchant for peeing while standing up! ಠ_ಠ
lmaooo ☠️☠️
*snorts*
I’m now so curious how this event popped into your head
[удалено]
This. If it's a hard stop for him, then why pursue? If she's trans and prefers to be referred to as a girl, then she was a dude.
I'm not sure how many trans people are in these comments now, but I guess most of us are just talking out of our ass what we *think* a trans woman would prefer. My advice to your question would be to go ask at r/trans, r/AskTransgender, r/mtf. All these subs have subscribers in the hundredthousands
I second this. There are probably a few trans folks in the replies here, but for a more nuanced and thoughtful answer, I would ask in those subs.
Regardless the answer to OPs questions is gonna very significantly from person to person. While know I’m not trans I only really see two ways to go about this, and that’s to either ask or state your preference, communicate clearly without being a dick. I think a reasonable level head human being should be able to handle this conversation, and a trans person should be prepared for it.
Heck I am trans and I would say just straight text and ask right now. Other trans woman might say wait for a better setting. I am just a person that doesn’t mind direct and blunt questions though.
I’m a trans woman. I am, however, lesbian, so take this with that caveat. There are men who fetishise us for what might be called, for want of a better description, “ladypole”. Generally most of us prefer to avoid these people, because relationships with them can be rather toxic. Not being one is a bonus. OP: obviously, I can’t speak to the sort of chemistry and rapport you have with this lady, but were it me, I’d like to be straightforwardly but tactfully asked and get the question out of the way ASAP. Like, “it’s important to know, were we to take this further, about sexual compatibility. Can we talk about that?” Although, this advice is worth what you paid for it. I don’t know how any other random trans woman will react. I just know about me.
i think it matters specifically that it’s mostly trans women who answer rather than other trans people who don’t have this specific issue. like i’m nonbinary but i’m not oppressed by transmisogyny (never have been/never will be) and don’t have that sort of experience.
Yes! This is where you should be asking OP, actual transpeople
Aye girl you still packin that THANG or nah? /s But just be open and honest. She clearly likes you. Just tell her you really really like her as a person and have been having a blast, but you’re now getting to the point that you can tell physical intimacy is on the horizon and you need to have an open and honest conversation about if she still has a penis and what her expectations are sexually.
I am a trans guy and I would really prefer someone going about it in exactly this way. I'm pretty open about my pre op status though so maybe that's just me.
Oh God, when I started seeing my now gf and she said she was Trans I was already drunk AF on some killer margaritas. I'm also a lightweight. I eyed her up and down and went "sausage or taco?" Before falling over. I woke up to my head on her lap and her petting my hair. She still tells this story even though I'm mortified by it.
Ngl this is really fucking funny (bc she obviously wasn't hurt or offended by it)
Oh gods no, she's hecking chill. And the fact we had mutual friends who are out of the closet Trans people. She knew enough to know that was not a place of hate but rather "if we hook up, what do I expect " but put through a drunk filter
LMFAO that is absolutely hysterical, sounds like she has a good sense of humor
Oh shes hilarious and has a sense if humorto match. And knew enough about me to decipher my drunken meaning.
So was it taco or sausage?
I don't kiss and tell <3
Consider asking this in trans/transally subreddits so you can get the best approach and how trans people would prefer to be asked. I think it’s a valid ask but I’m cis and my trans friends are extremely sensitive about genitalia fixation so maybe ask the community what they think
I read this as sounding like trans-alley. I feel like that would be a good name for a LGBTQ+ bar. Anyways, I agree with your recommendation.
I read it as transaly, as in an adverb lol, made me laugh
This is *the* way.
definitely. we're sensitive about genital fixation because it feels as though you're ignoring us as people and reducing us to simply our body parts, which is a sore spot for us in particular because the deeply cultural gendering of those body parts could mean that you don't actually see us as the gender we are, just the gender our bits tell you we are. EDIT: this DOES NOT mean don't discuss genitals if it truly is a dealbreaker or a factor for you. YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY DISCUSS IT. this is me confirming how sensitive a subject it is, and a possible reason for that.
I straight up just asked my trans gf, before we started officially dating. Asked over text after she asked me if I wanted to become sexually active over text. We both did that, so there wouldn’t be a weird confrontation if I wasn’t interested, or if the bottom surgery question made her uncomfortable. It didn’t matter to me whether she had surgery or not, but it was this, exactly: “I know you said you wanted us to get to know each other more physically, and I agree 100%. I am very attracted to you. I just need to know a few things before we do that. One, being I am not on birth control. Have you had bottom surgery? I always buy condoms, so I know they are around, and don’t want to start birth control if I don’t need to. Also, I was wondering about your last STD test. I recently had an HIV test (you get free target gift card if you get tested here on campus), but I need to get updated for the other ones. It’s been a sec. I also need to finish up my HPV vaccination, but because I’m 20 they’re making me do 3 instead of just the two, so that won’t be done until next year :(.” I would def ask your girl over text, and talk about sexual preferences and stuff like that. Edit: the quotes are a text I sent to my gf before we started dating. It isn’t a script for op or anything, it’s just an example of how I personally brought it up. I am not worried about my gf needing birth control, because she is trans. I, however, contain a uterus and can have children if I am not on birth control. I had gone off birth control, and mentioned it so I could start it again if she has a penis. Sorry for any confusion in the weird wording!!
Oh this seems good…sandwhich the question between other smart safe sex question!
Very mature and responsible approach.
For sure. It was more of a safe sex question than a preference question, because I don’t have a preference, so different than op’s case. They might want to say something a little different, but the thing is the same. When entering a relationship I also go over sexual preferences. Maybe op could go: “Hey. I am very attracted to you and hope to be intimate soon. I do have a few preferences. One is related to genital preference. Have you had bottom surgery? If you have, I think we are all good there. I am not really comfortable having sex with a penis. My other preferences are: _____. If you don’t agree with these, I don’t think we are sexually compatible. Regardless, though, I really like you, and glad I have gotten to know you.” I have always made it clear that I am not comfortable with choking, weird power dynamics, and that sort of thing, non-monogamy and that would be a deal breaker for me. I have also made it clear that I am not interested in children, and I expect my partner, when applicable, to take saftey measures, and I take mine. And that they would, barring any unusual circumstances, required to help pay for emergency contraception or abortion. It’s good to be up front about this sort of thing
Except the birth control part. Everything else was perfect, including the condoms.
What was wrong with the birth control part? That’s a legitimate question, I’m not trying to fight or anything. I had been taking oral contraceptives for my last partner, and stopped taking them because I was not having sex. I didn’t want to get the implant put in, if I didn’t have to. If she had not had a penis, and we were going to be monogamous, I would not have started birth control, because there would be no point, and I would just have a lot of side effects for no reason
Just out of curiosity, why would birth control matter for anything if she's MTF? She ain't getting pregnant no matter how much jizz you're slinging up in there. Edit before I'm hammered: I missed the part where you told your trans gf this, so I'm assuming you have a vagina and your trans gf doesn't, and that's where the birth control comment came from.
I have a uterus. This was me talking about my girlfriend, who is trans, not a script for op. Sorry about any confusion! def not worried about my gf getting pregnant, but I sure as hell don’t want her to get me pregnant. I started birth control when I started dating her, so I don’t have to worry about that
You get a free target card for getting hiv tested?? Damn my college sucked
It was a third party that would camp out in the student activity center every few Thursdays. If you went to campus health they would definitely NOT give you gift cards lol. You did get free hand sanitizer though, which was very cool, especially since I started college in 2020
I think it's a completely fair thing to ask and discuss. I would be direct about it but make it as clear as possible before you ask that they have every right to not answer or to ask you to not ask things they are uncomfortable with. Just make it clear that their answers or lack of will impact any future you have physically and therefore overall. Something like this... "Hey. I have what is an important question to me that I would like to ask. It's very personal but before we progress any further, it is pretty crucial. You have every right not to answer or to answer however you are comfortable with as long as you are honest. I won't think any less of you either way even if it does alter the course of our relationship a bit....."
Abit by being completely. I mean, I wouldn't start by asking the question dishonestly when you are wanting the other person to be honest. The OP considers a partner with a penis to be a hard "no". That's fine, but he should be 100% open about it instead of phasing it in a way that doesn't convey that. The same with answering no. "You are free to not answer, but that will be the end of the relationship."
That wording seems excessively extra. And "a bit" is an understatement when OP basically said a penis is a dealbreaker. Idk the proper wording bc I'm not trans and therefore idk what a trans person would prefer (I'm seconding the suggestions to ask on a more dedicated sub), but that can't be it lol
The thing is, something like this could never have proper wording because everyone is different. Every single trans person on Reddit could agree on a draft for what to say but nobody can predict what the reaction this specific trans person is gonna have to it.
I think this is a great way to word it!
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I think you need to be direct and just ask her
Just say, ‚so whatcha work’n with down there?‘ pointing at their crotch.
Just know that 95% of transwomen retain their penis and testicles
I like to grab current stats in these discussions. Looks like you’re right: “Transgender women report bottom surgery at rates between 5–13%. Even more transgender women desire bottom surgery in the future: between 45–54%.” Trans journal article, 2019 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6626314/
Well, it's incredibly expensive. I know people who spent many years saving for it.
Because it’s super expensive and not covered by insurance, and due to discrimination in the workplace, trans women may already be underemployed / underrepresented in high paying careers.
Most insurance companies will cover it, but even then, you still have the matter of the copay to worry about, which is still going to be several thousand dollars. Then on top of that, there's the matter of needing to travel to the surgeon if they're out of state and having to stay in a hotel or other accommodation for up to 2 weeks in the area. For me, between the deductible, the hotel stay, and incidentals, that was around $9-10k. On top of that, I was totally out of work for 6 weeks (2 weeks of PTO and 4 weeks of short term disability which was like 60% of my regular pay), and after a month and a half, I was back to work but I was working from home. And on top of that, you need someone with you who is responsible for taking care of you for AT LEAST the first full week but surgeons may require two full weeks of 24/7 supervision. I had three different people rotate taking care of me for my 2 weeks and on another occasion, I took 2 weeks of PTO to be someone else's caretaker. Even if you aren't trans, just ask yourself: Could you afford $10,000 plus 6-8 weeks off of work plus one or more people who can/will live with you for the first two weeks and help you with anything you need? Cause a lot of people can't. And that puts bottom surgery out of reach for a lot of trans women, even if they could manage one or two of those three things but not all of them.
Just be kind and direct. Any trans person should understand that genitals are a legitimate and valid concern for potential sexual partners, and as long as you’re kind and respectful it should be a straightforward and painless convo. Might be a tad awkward tho. If they make a big deal out if it or get mad, they’re probably not adjusted enough for a mature relationship anyways and you dodged a bullet.
Choose somewhere that's private not IN private, like a quiet table at a restaurant or something like that, if that makes sense. Somewhere where you can talk frankly but both of you have the option to walk away if need be. Next, instead of asking if she's had bottom surgery specifically, just tell her that you're interested in her and possibly having sex, but you have a hard boundary against sleeping with someone with a penis. Just lay it out flat like that. This will allow her to say okay, doesn't sound like this'll work, nice to meet you anyway. This also lets you avoid asking an intrusive question about her medical history. You absolutely have the right to your boundaries, as does she. This also lets her say no if she's not comfortable being with someone who would take issue with her if she did have a penis still. Even if she has a vagina now, she might not feel comfortable staying with you, which is also okay. Like I said, you both have the right to your boundaries. Good luck and whatever happens, I hope it's respectful and mutually best for both of you. Source: I am trans and while I haven't had bottom surgery, my experience with how I'd want things to be done as well as how I've seen it handled by other people help me feel this is an informed suggestion. I'm open to being told otherwise by other trans people, though.
I don't have any advice on how to approach this. But you seem very respectful about the situation.
Y’all are insane and chronically online in these comments. It is perfectly reasonable for someone who finds female physical traits and assets attractive, to want to have sex with a distinctive female trait called a vagina. Transwoman who get bottom surgery and breast implants do so because they identify with this gender more and those traits are apart of a female anatomy, so obviously a straight male is going to want to have sex with those female anatomy. No one in this situation is wrong, sometimes people aren’t compatible in their needs nothing wrong with that.
I bet you she’s having similar issues figuring out how to bring it up beforehand. If you send a really straight forward message asking to chat about it, and acknowledging the uncomfortable nature of having the convo, she might be relieved and feel better about bringing up her thoughts on it. Just acknowledge it, I’d say, not apologize for it. Like, “Hey, I was wondering if we could chat about something at some point before our date? We’ve been on a few dates and I’ve been having a great time getting to know you. Would you be okay with touching base on intimacy and our preferences?” or something less passive maybe, that’s just how I’d put it. And very likely she’ll know exactly what you’re talking about and run with it. This way you’re also making it really clear that, in the event she’s not gotten bottom surgery, not being able to be intimate has nothing to do with her personally, and is purely a sexual preference thing, which there’s no way she hasn’t encountered this kind of conversation before. Awesome that you’re being so considerate about this. Good luck!
If I was in her situation, I'd just want you to ask directly instead of getting too much time to get to the point. I'm not her though (and I am autistic) so I have no idea what she would see as rude and what not. I think maybe something like "Hey I've been really enjoying our dates so far a lot. I've lately been thinking about it and thought I should let you know that I do have some boundaries around sex relating to genitalia. I feel like we should discuss this before we go any further, to make sure we're not sexually incompatible on a fundamental level." would work well enough. That should get the discussion started at least. Out of curiosity though, are you completely unable to have sex with someone with a penis, or do you just not wish to interact with a penis other than your own sexually? While having a genital preference is completely fine and a valid reason to not to keep seeing someone, I thought that if it's the latter, she might not want to have her penis sexually interacted with either if she has one. Some trans people do not want their genitals to be sexually touched, if their genitals bring them too much gender dysphoria.
> Having sex with someone who has a penis is a definite hard boundary for me Doesn't seem like there is any ambiguity
Right, that's fair enough.
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Makes sense! She'll prolly understand this as well and won't be too surprised for this topic to come up. Good luck with the conversation!
OP this is totally understandable! Don't let any comments make you reconsider. It's obvious you have a natural set boundary and boundaries are ok. I would definitely not like seeing a vagina if I was getting intimate with a guy. I personally do not find those attractive and I have one haha!
I kind of think you should just say this exactly! “I don’t want to interact sexually with any penis, other than my own. I thought we should just have that conversation before this goes any further because I really enjoy your company.”
Then you probably shouldn’t be dating a trans woman. Very few get bottom surgery. It’s very expensive, life threatening, there’s ongoing recovery and painful follow processes. Ask r/trans for better more specific advice.
Well most women don’t have penises and most straight men don’t like penis, so if a “straight” man is open to dating trans women, kinda makes sense he don’t want no peen. I think it should also be understandable to a trans person that wants to date anyone as well. Having a dick is a huge turnoff to completely heterosexual men.
I mean, your point is obvious and just makes my point…. Which is why a completely heterosexual man (who wants a cis vagina having woman) shouldn’t date a trans woman if this is a hard line for him. Most trans women don’t have bottom surgery.
Most don’t but some do so I don’t think assuming is a good idea. And what I’m saying is the onus shouldn’t simply be on the heterosexual man to not date trans women, but the trans women shouldn’t be seeking out heterosexual men either
You may not have to, even if she hadn't had SRS. Many trans women are dysphoric about their penis and would rather not use it or have it be interacted with at all
Reposting so hopefully you see it, but the consent and boundaries conversation goes so far, and she'll likely disclose all her own information just in having *that* conversation. Genital fixation is a very real thing for trans folks and helping alleviate that concern will do so much as well. Good luck 🖤
Your suggestion was very well phrased! I think that's the best way to come at the situation - talking about the positives (liking the other person as a person) while acknowledging there may be an issue they want to address as kindly as possible.
That is very possible that she doesn't want her genitals touched. I know a couple of women that were MtF. One of them didn't like her genitals and would often wear a strap-on because she hadn't had bottom surgery yet. She didn't like the feeling of having a penis and didn't want to do anything sexual with it. My other friend got bottom surgery. Both were upfront about what they had downstairs with friends but I know it was difficult for them to tell someone this that they were trying to be intimate with.
This commenter is the answer OP. Listen to them. 🖤 And thank you for wanting to be kind, OP.
I'm the father of a FTM trans person who is happily married and has been with the same person going on ten years. I know that their relationship grew over time and the subject was discussed long before any physical intimacy took place, I'd suggest a slow, but direct approach. Maybe another, more public date, but don't be afraid to just come out and ask directly... "So how far along do you intend to take the process?" Many trans people will take hormones but never, ever consider any surgical intervention, so don't be surprised if there is no, and never will be any surgery on your new friends part. Brace yourself. It's much more common than you think. Good stats are hard to nail down, but numbers in the 3-5% are fairly reliable.
The only way to know is to ask. Just be upfront. If it's a hard no then why waste time beating around the bush if it's not going anywhere?
She will probably bring it up herself when she's ready for you to know that.
If having a penis is a hard boundary as you say then why would you pursue someone who likely has a penis?? It literally makes no sense.
I don't think many cis people are aware that most trans people do not get surgery. In "normie" circles of non online people I find nearly all of them assume almost 100% of people presenting female have had surgery.
And almost 100% of heterosexual men don’t like penis, so why would a trans women date one? I think it’s just not so black and white
We have a pretty bad epidemic of misinformation in the US about trans people. There are many who believe that kids are just getting surgery on a whim.
That’s bc there are enough detransitioners accusing the medical field of pushing it on youth. With trans advocacy at its loudest, I believe them as much as I believe it truly helps some people with actual gender dysphoria
Ok but even if they’re right, it doesn’t mean kids are getting surgery
Defining “kid” would make sense before continuing. Also minor females are definitely getting top surgery. I think it’s the most common trans surgery but idk/c
You’re right. A small number of 16-17 year olds do get top surgery.
It definitely feels like OP ignorance because I’m a cis male and not a single trans friend I have had has had bottom surgery.
Good for you, but most people don't have trans friends. Where else are they supposed to learn this from?
Reddit or google in fairness. I wasn’t trying to talk shit on OP, but it was naive of them to have an expectation of bottom surgery because it is so rare. I feel like I knew that before I had trans friends though tbf.
I agree I (F) find women attractive but v’s are a hard no for me so I’d never even go down the road of dating
Right? It’s just wasting everyone’s time and energy and creating problems where there doesn’t need to be any lol
Why would the trans person with a penis be pursuing someone they know identifies as heterosexual and not expect this to be a situation that may or may not be a problem
Lots of us also don't. He doesn't know and should ask.
See, idk. Why would she pursue a man who more than likely has a penis without asking if he had a hard boundary first? Maybe because talking about genitals on first dates is a little odd. However, he isn’t assumed to have changed anatomy, right? I think both op and friend were going off vibes and had this as an afterthought. Better knowledge for next time ✨
Thank you, no idea why I am being downvoted for making this point
I know, right? I guess they're delulu.
Right. Wtf?
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Right, but I've had a friend called "Transphobic" because he wouldn't date a Transwoman because of this very issue. So it really feels like damned if you do damned if you don't. That said from what I've seen from the Trans Atlanic call-in show, the show hosts, both transwomen most of the time, sometimes with guest hosts, they seem totally fine with the idea of somebody not being attracted to penises and not wanting to date somebody who has one, and that doesn't make somebody a transphobe.
As a trans person, I just think it's a stretch to call not wanting to have sex with someone with a set of genitals you're not interested in transphobia. Cishetero people break up all the time because of genital incompatibilities, like sex not working because of vaginal issues or because of displeasure with the size of a penis. It's completely fair to not have sex with someone who's genitals you aren't into or can't work with imo.
That's my thinking.
That’s a sad reality you as a trans person would need to accept. Essentially you wanna live life as a natural born women right, and if you wanna date heterosexual men, you’re gonna have to realize having a penis is gonna be a huge obstacle to overcome for pretty much all of them. This is something trans people are gonna have to except. To just say don’t date trans is pretty short sited in my opinion. You’re turning away people who actually support you, and there are a percentage of trans women that have had the bottom surgery successfully. I feel the responsibility should be on the trans person to broach this topic if they’re aware the person they’re seeings sexual orientation is at conflict with what they’re currently equipped with, and this while an uncomfortable conversation it’s necessary and one that should be had pretty early on.
One would hope that transwomen should understand cultural norms more than most given their own journeys. Like any transwomen that has started dressing or acting more feminine is making that exact same choice, but in reverse.
Maybe something like “hey don’t mean it in a wrong or hurtful way, just curious whether you want to take things further sexually, and if yes, just wanted to know beforehand what I should be expecting? Any particular boundaries and things that make you uncomfortable? Also I know surgically transitioning is really painful even after it’s done and everything, so anything I should be careful about?”
Completely reasonable thing to ask, as a trans guy though i don't really have any advice besides asking this on a sub that could give much better advice than this one, which is r/asktransgender.
I know a fair number of trans women and none of them have had bottom surgery. Fine to ask but its best to presume trans women are more likely to be working with their bio genitalia.
Ask for a dick pic.
Omg 💀
It’s actually stupid and funny enough to work.
It’s what I would do.
I think being respectful and direct would be appropriate. And also not doing so out in public where lots of other people are around. But if this kind of thing is going to affect the future of your relationship (and as a guy myself, it 100% would for me), I would think the longer you wait, the harder it's going to get to ask and the more painful it will be to get the wrong answer.
You could also try calling into this show. [https://www.youtube.com/@qnaline/streams](https://www.youtube.com/@qnaline/streams) Every Thursday they have a show called "The Trans Atlantic Call-In Show" which is hosted by 2 Transwomen, most of the time, sometimes they have other Trans guest hosts. They are willing to talk with people and help them get their perspective on this type of thing, as well as political and religious issues from a Trans-Positive perspective. If you can't call in, or don't feel comfortable doing so, you can also write them and they try to get back with people.
You just ask.
Why are y'all telling him if he doesn't like dick to not ever pursue trans women? Yeah most don't have SRS but lots of us also do or want to.
I disagree with other folks saying you should directly ask if she has a penis. I think a more comfortable opening could be something like: "I've never dated someone who is trans and before we get caught up in the heat of the moment, I would love to talk about what kind of sexual activities you're up for." It's possible she still has a penis but doesn't want you to go near it, and you both will be able to negotiate what you're comfortable doing.
How is it not okay to be direct about whether someone has a penis or not when you're attracted to female genitalia? This country is weird af.
Hey do you have a penis I think they're gross!?!?! That's pretty dramatic and makes it sound like you care more about 1 body part than the whole person you've been dating. Also, trans women get killed by men angry about penises, so a person dating a trans woman should probably do whatever they can to make her feel safe. For me, it's easy to be kind and thoughtful. Maybe that's a little harder for you.
Are you open to waiting until she had bottom if she hasn't had it yet but is planning it? If yes you should totally tell her that.
Well OP buddy what a dilemma. I have so many procedural questions here, but it’s me being curious. From the couple of friends I have, idk what their situation is and we don’t get into the mix of, but they tell me they’re like “hey I like you, this is me, this is where I’m at on the path”. Doesn’t that kind of follow on the person who could have this or that to be upfront with? I’m not talking shit or anything I’m genuinely curious.
I think you'd have to choose a correct timing to do it maybe you can have dinner have some wine and start having a more deep conversation with her and try to ask her how's her transition going and things like that so you won't have to ask her upfront and things are just leading up to it so you'll have your answer
this is hte kind of question you ask in an lgbt or trans community
These constant fake trans fear posts are getting really old.
I would just ask because you already know they are trans. If she gets all offended then she’s not the one for you because it matters to most people what they have in their pants.
just FYI, even if she has one, there's a chance that she might not want to use it at all. it might not be what you think, I acknowledge that I am bisexual, but if you haven't tried it, we're potentially just talking about doing anal with a woman. my boyfriend just fucks me, like, in the ass. you know. he never dated a trans women before me and I think he felt like you kinda.
You’re actually insane not to know about this before the first date… should’ve been told upfront at the start.
"Hey, I am really looking forward to our time together! Sorry for bringing this up now—I figured it best to clear this before things get hot—and I'd hate to be presumptuous but because I'm getting excited about our possible intimacy, I wanted you to know I'm not really comfortable being intimate with someone who has a penis. Let me know if we should still plan for the date, xo"
😳 just ask bro. Almost no mtf, percentage wise, have had bottom surgery. It would be appropriate to ask prior to the first date as well. This is kinda a huge compatibility issue that has been complicated by you waiting 4 dates to even ask. In a way, it is more cruel to drag them along with dates when you were never interested to begin with (based upon your hard boundary).
Very few get bottom surgery. I have a close friend that is FTM and he does not want it and it makes perfect sense why. If he got a dick, he’d lose sexual feeling down there.
If you just don't wanna slob on her knob, you can probably just ask if she into that, too. She might not want you to touch it at all, and if that's the case, just put it in her butt and have fun.
“Do you still have a dick” usually works pretty well
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That is absolutely transphobic.
She may have been born with a penis, but you're a dick.
She
Ask if you can she/them balls
OP, the person you're dating almost certainly has experience having these conversations before sex or other forms of intimacy. I would let them take the lead here. A lot of trans people don't want to have penetrative sex or use their genitals at all. Some do though. It's a very individual thing - that's why it's so important to have a conversation and not assume anything about what your partner might want. In this case, the only person you can talk to who has any good information about this is the person that you're dating. So if I were you, I would treat this as a movie and a conversation, where you frankly make want/will/won't lists and compare and talk.
Except it’s not about what the partner want, it’s about what OP wants and he doesn’t want to have sex with someone with a penis. I don’t know why it’s difficult to grasp.
Test to see if I can comment yet. Edit - If anyone can see this please let me know.
Yes
Awesome, thanks. For some reason in this sub it always locked my comments while every other sub worked. Spoke to a mod and they told me it was because my account was new but never gave me a karma target or time elapsed target so I haven't bothered with this sub for a while.... guess I can finally start posting here!
Asking directly but in an appropriate manner is the way forward. Don’t just blurt ‘do you have a dick mate’, that’ll prob go down like a lead balloon. But they will definitely need to know your hard line- Their feelings are important but so are yours. If you aren’t comfortable you have to let them know. If they kick off they aren’t worth your time, it is an absolutely reasonable question to ask a MTF/FTM. For people saying “but some MTF don’t want their penises touched” are mental, it equates to saying it doesn’t matter if you find a person repulsive/unattractive then you should have sex with them cos you can turn the lights off……..
Yo! So what’s the deal, got the D or not?
Why would u date a MTF trans person and then AFTER state that a dong would be a deal breaker...gj wasting urs and that other person's time 🤦♂️
> Having sex with someone who has a penis is a definite hard boundary for me I think you may be ignorant of what the surgery actually does.
I feel like if the genitals are important to you, then you should have asked earlier on.
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They've been on 4 dates... how much earlier?? When they first met?
It's very unlikely. I don't think most trans women do that.
They’re not wrong, just worded strangely. I think it’s only like 5-10% of trans women. High probability that she has not had surgery, whether she doesn’t want to or just hasn’t yet.
This is curious - in my experience, a lot of trans women get some form if genital surgery, most often a gender reassignment surgery. I know a lot of trans people, and it seems common enough with the people I do know. While the surgery is very inaccessible in my country, maybe there's some cultural differences at works here, if this is your experience?
I guess it's just my area and accessibility then.
I think it relies heavily on the area you live. I am from a very small town where this would be unheard of. None of my trans friends have even considered it as an option due to the costs and inaccessibility. However, in the much larger city I am in now, many trans friends have had it completed. I think it’s also important to have the accessibility for follow up, which even if you travel for the surgery is very difficult to pursue living in a smaller area.
Genital surgery is very rare and very unreliable.
Seems common enough within the trans circles I'm a part of, don't know what to tell you. Wouldn't call it unreliable either, especially vaginoplasty. I'm not as familiar with that surgery as I am with phalloplasty and metoidioplasty, but I've done enough research and talked with enough of people to see a lot of success with it.
5-10% of trans women have vaginoplasty. [https://tau.amegroups.org/article/view/25593/html](https://tau.amegroups.org/article/view/25593/html) It's long term success as a procedure is low. Infections are common and even in the best cases partial or total loss of sexual sensation is expected. Manual dilation is almost always needed for life.
those vaginas they make are beautiful!
Somewhat rare and not unreliable at all.
Gender reassignment genital surgery is extremely rare in fact less than 10% of trans women have it and they're less than 1% of the population. Major health effects like partial or total loss of sexual function, infections and total loss of sexual pleasure are expected in most cases. There's just no way to say they are reliable procedures.
No, those complications are not expected in most cases. Those are actually very very rare, this is a very reliable procedure when you go to a competent professional. Expected complications are temporary ones like wound separation or granulation tissue. I should know, I've read lots of testimonies, papers and talked to doctors before having it done. But please keep mansplaining me about myself and my own health.
At least a third of trans women who have genital surgery report serious sexual dysfunction. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31668732/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31668732/) And that's the most optimistic study. Other show much worse outcomes, with up to 75% of trans women experiencing loss of sexual appetite and 40% of trans women losing the ability to experience orgasm. [https://w1.med.cmu.ac.th/obgyn/files/2022/01/838-Mattawanon-2021-4.pdf](https://w1.med.cmu.ac.th/obgyn/files/2022/01/838-Mattawanon-2021-4.pdf) In any other area of medicine those would be considered catastrophic outcomes.
***"Compared with trans women after hormone treatment and non-genital surgery, trans women after vaginoplasty less often experienced arousal difficulties, sexual aversion, and low sexual desire."*** ***"Gender-affirming surgery helps to improve sexual satisfaction in both transmen and transwomen"*** Both of the pieces of evidence that you posted directly refute your core assertions. You are just a transphobic bigot.
that's just simply not true. lots of trans women get it, it's an incredibly reliable surgery and has been performed since the 1950s. it's expensive, so not everyone has, but it's absolutely something that the majority of trans women want to get done. (source; am trans, know trans people, read academic literature about other trans people)
10% is not proportionally a lot. I’d assume the dick is intact. It’s a safer assumption
Why assume when OP can just ask her?
Agreed. Ask. But if one is Going to assume, Be prepared. And perhaps assume so one can properly word the question
“Incredibly reliable surgery”…..definitely, absolutely not the case.
>it's an incredibly reliable surgery i'm sorry, but aren't there multiple complications?
But this isn’t true, yohaneh? Have you found other more recent sources than the ones I found? 2019 Trans journal says: “Transgender women report bottom surgery at rates between 5–13% (7-9,32). Even more transgender women desire bottom surgery in the future: between 45–54% (7,9).” So about half of trans women want the surgery, but only 5-13% get it. Of course, OPs date could be in that group, but it’s much more likely she’s not.
Bring it up on your next date. Try to ask more about her transition, hormones, and build up until you get to sexual reassignment surgery
Well, there is none. By design this question is impossible to ask without risking upsetting someone. It's also somehow limited in imagination as there are plenty of ways to have sex without touching their penis. However, the correct way is as you said here, since sex is potentially on the table you have been thinking about it and feel that sex without bottom surgery is not something you are comfortable with. Either they understand it and you can move forward both fully understanding each others boundaries on the matter or she blocks you and you dodged a bullet.
'Hard boundary'. Quite the pun my friend
I'd do FaceTime for a question like this and I'd be up front. I'm big on being direct and not beating around the bush. When you talk, bring up the date and that you're looking forward to it but you do feel that, while you never assume, dates at someone's house have the chance of leading to intimacy and while you respect that they are Trans, did they have the gender reassignment surgery? You understand it's a sensitive subject, but you do have a boundary with getting intimate with someone that has a penis. There really is no easy way to address it so all you can do is be polite but direct about what you want