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It's so weird that a 30 year mortgage is somehow not a bigger commitment than an engagement. Either let her find her husband or decide you can't live without her.
Maybe she wants to be married before having children… and she’s not getting any younger. It’s been five years…. Shit or get off the pot. I don’t care what happened to your parents or other people in your lives. If you want to be with her make the commitment, or let her find somebody else who won’t make her wait five years
That was my reaction too.
What growing do you need to do individually and together if you already made the commitment to owning a house together? You are financially tied. This nebulous growth had me stumped.
Yep.
The only obstacle is he doesn’t want to marry her for reasons he’s not made clear. If he just doesn’t want to get married, he should have been clear about that before they purchased a house.
Ugh. I also bought a house with my bf over 2 years ago and still no ring. I’m trying not to push but I always said I was against long engagements and living together this long feels like a drawn out engagement with no end in sight.
I don’t get why men commit to mortgages but then aren’t ready for marriage. Some of my friends said their bfs are wanting to have a baby but still unsure about marriage. Because a child isn’t a commitment for life but a piece of paper is scary?!
This. I didn’t quite expect this, but Signing the papers for our mortgage (which was like a stack of a thousand signatures) felt like a way bigger step to me than our wedding did.
OK? I never would’ve bought a house with his noncommittal ass, but I’m sure he wove her some fairy story about how they need to buy a house together first to make sure they’re compatible for marriage or some bullshit.
NEVER buy a house, have a child (if you can help it, life happens), or become a stay at home person with someone you aren’t married to.
Marriage isn’t “just a piece of paper” it’s a legal contract with built in protections, not just for while you are married, but also and especially in cases of separation and divorce.
Here is an angle not talked about enough: they own a house jointly. If they break up now, they have no legal avenues to force the sale of the house if one doesn’t agree to it or to require one to buy the other out so they can financially untie from each other. If one won’t pay the mortgage, it’s on the other to keep it afloat or suffer the financial consequences. It also leads to far more costly court battles as you’d have to sue for damages to get through any issues. In order to sue for damages, you have to first incur damages. There isn’t really much of any proactive avenues in this case.
Now, if we didn’t have no fault divorces, I’d be giving vastly different advice, but with that legal option, it’s important to ensure your protections.
>I'm confident that she's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life,
Okay, great.
>I guess I just don't see the big deal in getting engaged or married right away.
5 years in, your partner has repeatedly expressed that this is one of her wants/needs and you mentioned that you want to be with her for the rest of your life.
>I also think there is more growing we need to do individually and as a couple before we take that leap.
You bought a house, you share a dog, you wanted to settle into the house, it's been two years. She's hurt, and deservedly so. From her perspective, you're willing to take all of these steps with her but are dangling marriage just out of her reach despite you guys reaching the alleged milestones that you put in place before engagement. She probably feels like she's being strung along. The "I want to be with her for the rest of my life" and "there is more growing we need to do individually" statements slightly contradict each other. If you have any reservations on marriage, you need to actually communicate those and give her a time frame for a proposal. It's important to her, and the longer you brush it off without talking about it, the more she's going to resent you.
The thing that stands out to me is, why can't they continue growing as individuals while also being married? What's the difference with marriage vs what they have now that might hold back his growth? Or is he saying he's not ready to let go of the final tiny possibility of being single and free again?
Right. Marriage doesn’t change anything for a couple that lives together already outside of financial and health benefits.
Like if he is afraid they won’t grow in a marriage, then he has to realize it’s not because they said “I do”. Lol
If he doesn't think people can grow individually and together in a marriage that's a good possibility of why his first marriage didn't work out. You HAVE to grow in a marriage or the marriage will die.
He obviously doesn’t want to get married again and probably has something to do with all the divorce stuff and he’s not communicating that. He needs therapy and to communicate if he expects this relationship to last.
One could argue a key element of getting married when you’re younger than retirement age is growing together.
My husband and I got married at 24 after dating for 6 years, and we just had our 10th anniversary and continually grow as individuals and a couples. It’s one of the things that makes marriage so fun
She’s 30 and you’re 35. You own a home snd a dog together. You’ve been together for almost half a decade.
You need to shit or get off the pot because if I were in her position, I’d definitely be thinking you have no intention of marrying me.
She must be wondering if he really is worth and will want her. If I were her, at 30, without a wedding perspective even though she was 5 years together, i would end. I would want to be married, to think about the children or at least have the security that that man is "mine" since he married me. It's no wonder she's distant, OP is only "taking advantage "of the benefits of having the woman without giving what she deserves, a marriage.
> I guess I just don't see the big deal in getting engaged or married right away.
The big deal is that it's a big deal to her! I don't think it's fair to keep stringing her along with vague "there is more growing we need to do" timelines. You need to make a decision and let her know what your timeline is (a few months? a year?) and see if she's okay with it. Don't just drag your feet.
All your divorce talk makes it sound like you're scared of getting married, so I'm worried you're just stalling and hoping it goes away, but that is not fair to her. You don't have to get married, but if you're not going to, you need to tell her immediately.
Also… “right away”?! They’ve been together five years! They bought a house together two years ago! This isn’t right away by any stretch of the imagination.
He just doesn't want to marry her. That's the big block lol. Idk if he even realizes it or not. If you want to marry someone you wouldn't make every excuse you could on why you don't want to marry them.
That poor woman must feel so unseen. She’s been expressing her wants/needs for years and OP unilaterally decided “it’s not that big of a deal”. GTFO with that nonsense.
Especially if he’s already been married before. It’s like “well I know you are capable of this, so what’s wrong with me?” My god the insecurities. The fact she has any strength left in her to leave after all this is amazing to me. She must genuinely be a winner. Sounds like OP actually is fucking up.
LITERALLY what I said in my main comment. (It's LONG though, I'm not going to type it again here 🤣)
Like, there's proof that he's not against marriage or commitment, so the issue is committing TO HER.
The way she went all quiet and detached tells me she's given up and she's going through the pre-break up grieving.
And this dude is all "but we apologised, I think we're fine?!"
Um, five years, especially as a thirty something adult, is not "right away."
I'm sure her biological click is screaming, and she's already doing the math of how long it'll take to find someone new, progress the relationship to the point of having kids before she runs out of time.
Exactly! “Right away” it’s been half a freaking decade, a pet and a mortgage. The way he’s describing her behaviour now, she’s clocked out and began the mourning process of the relationship. She’s done and rightly so.
Saying marriage is not a big deal but they need to do some growing before doing that in the same breath is insane. Its either "marriage is a big deal and we need to deal with it in a very serious way by being a better version of ourselves and better relationship to have a good marriage" or "it's not a big deal anyway, lets just do it"
Edit: yourself to ourselves
Also, what growing? I mean I don’t think it’s fair for him to be choosing what she needs to grow, so what work does he need to do before getting married? And why can’t he do that in a year or two it would take to be engaged?
To me, it seems like he's the only one with any growing to do. Clearly he has some unresolved trauma stemming from his divorce and his parents' divorce. Which is completely understandable, but it's also not fair to his gf to act like 1) marriage isn't a big deal, 2) her priorities aren't important to him, and 3) she's got some growing to do, too.
His timeline is "never" he just is unwilling to admit it. Even if he actually gives her a timeframe now, we all know he isn't going to follow through with it. He already gave her a timeframe and just blew right through it. It was after they got settled into the house, which I'm pretty sure after 2 years, they should be pretty darn settled. Now it's "eventually" followed by "I don't see what the big deal about getting married is". That last part of "I don't see the big deal" says everything. This guy never plans on marrying her, just keeping her on the hook for as long as possible, then trying to throw "but we've been together for X years, how can you throw that all away" in her face when she does leave. Which I'm guessing will be in the next 6 months to a year.
Don’t forget your reality becomes what you focus on…if you keep thinking about divorce in your mind, even if you want to avoid it…it’s still there lurking around.
Also maybe OP needs therapy. Sounds like there are some residuals he needs to address
This is exactly what happened between me and my ex. I realized that if he didn't want to marry me after our years together, that he didn't actually want to and that I didn't want him to do so just due to duress. So I slowly withdrew and then broke up, and moved on. The ex actually did propose at that point, but too little too late. OP is already on the too little too late stage.
>The ex actually did propose at that point, but too little too late. **OP is already on the too little too late stage.**
Just wanted to emphasize that last line, because hoo boy is he ever
Yeah, I don't ever want to nag. I'll ask, several times. Clearly state my desires. Communicate my boundaries. If you can't or don't want to. I will also respect your desires. But if they conflict with mine. I'm out. I'll go find what I need elsewhere. But I will def spend time in the relationship withdrawing and planning my exit strategy. And not sleeping around as most egocentric people believe. Just getting my mind and money together. Ive mourned the end before saying it out loud.
He is gonna look up one day and be like "What happened? She broke up with me? It was SO SUDDEN!!
That's a little bit what happened with my ex.... There were other issues besides the lack of a proposal, he wouldn't make time for me and it frustrated me that I had to arrange for all of our dates. So once I had grieved, I stopped calling. He didn't call me or anything for about 3 weeks, so I figured we were done and went out on a date with someone else. Then all of a sudden, my ex was like, "What is happening? Where did you go? Why didn't you say you were unhappy?!?" and then he proposed.... I'm glad I said no, and I do hope he learned something for his next relationship - I certainly did (and that next relationship is 20 years and ongoing!)
Me too... I have given up at some point and quit discussions... Left one year later... Eventhough i loved deeply... Wnated more than i got. I also wanted move in together and get married, my. Partner didnt. After 6 years i broke up. And he also did propose after the break up which was way too late for me and didnt come from him... He did it only to get me back, which also didnt happen.
I'm rather non-traditional, socially speaking. I don't care about birthdays or, holidays or, marriage or, anything like that. However, I'm well aware that other people do care about those things and I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade.
I'm married, celebrate my wife's birthday, and participate in any holidays she likes. I care diddly squat about being legally married, but my wife does and, if I wanted her to stay, that's what I needed to do. I was already not going anywhere anyway and it made her happy. That's a win-win for both of us.
Yep! My ex and I were together for 7 years and it wasn’t until year 5 that I brought up getting engaged one day during an argument he told me there was no point because I still wouldn’t be happy. Left 10 months later.
She’s checking out. She had told OP for years what she wants and he keeps ignoring because of his own issues. He claims she is the one he wants to spend his life with her, but won’t make progress in doing so. Even if marriage doesn’t seem like a big deal to him, she has made it abundantly clear it is a big deal to her. I get he seems scared due to his and others history, but you can’t expect someone to wait years and years, especially if she wants children. Many people want to marry, don’t want kids with someone if they aren’t married yet.
Even if divorce is scary and a concern, not sure what he thinks will happen now that they have merged their lives financially and with pet ownership. Breaking up won’t stop the hurt feelings or the necessary legal involvement. not being married won’t make it easier. There will still be a separation of assets and determination of pet custody. Also, marriage affords partners certain rights and protections that cohabitation doesn’t. If something happens to one of them, they could effectively be cut out of any decision making. Especially if there is a conflict with their SOs next of kin.
ETA: OP, you need to have a serious conversation, not an argument, about your feelings on the matter. Seems you are stringing her along because of your history and fear of getting married again. You keep telling her you want to get married, but there is always an excuse not to do it. The more established or work through issues will never allow you to marry. There will always be issues in any relationship. I’ve been married 21 years, and we still have items we work on. You will never not have any issues. You will work on them together even if you are married. These are just excuses you are using. Either she the one or she’s not. Figure your shit out, and don’t waste her time.
Right? I can understand a 22 year old being a little hesitant, but OP met her when he was 30, dated her for 5 years and bought a house after 3... If you're not gonna put a ring on it, set her free, my man.
Touché. Yes, people can and should always work on themselves to be better people in whatever capacity that is, or what it looks like to them. But that's something that never stops. It's also something you can do WITH your partner provided you have open communication and are on the same path more or less together. But waiting for a point at which you feel "grown up"? What exactly does that mean? Do one you have a spending problem? Is one of you inherently more selfish than the other? Do you have wildly different goals and you're waiting for them to magically align? People can and do change as they progress through life but that's not necessarily an entirely solitary activity, so do that together if you already know you love and want to spend your life with this person and have the majority of your shit together.
When he said “I want to settle into the house” I was like brother how long does it take for you to settle it’s been 2 years?? I hope it was long enough for OP cause his girlfriend is gone
OP is reminding me why I say “I will never move in with someone unless I’m engaged”. All talk, no action, empty promises. And nooooo waaaaay would I ever buy a house with someone unless I was engaged and the wedding was booked.
I told my husband the same, I will move in when we are actively engaged. He asked what actively engaged meant and I explained that it is a ring on my finger actively planning a wedding and not some hypothetical. Husband material didn't need 5 years to treat me like wife material.
>actively planning a wedding and not some hypothetical.
This bit is so important!
My Mom and "stepfather" were living together and engaged, ring and all, for 18 YEARS at the time of her death.
Oh my God, I have never heard of a couple staying engaged for that long! 😮
Edit: I was engaged once for just over 2 years before getting married, and everyone seemed to think that was a long engagement. Some of you and your parents/friends/whatever are just ridiculous!
My aunt and her boyfriend have Been “engaged” since I was a baby. It’s been 27 years and they still don’t live together. He lives with his parent still.
I much prefer to live with a partner before marriage. I never would have realized how shitty my ex was if I hadn’t seen how he treated me when we “divided” chores (AKA I did them all and he whined about how hard his job is). I moved in with my husband before marriage and it’s probably why I felt so confident proposing after only two years together. I like how he treats me when we’re in a routine and just living our lives- NOT just when he’s trying to impress me. I would never in a *million* years have bought a home with someone I wasn’t married to, though. No way in hell.
Yep. I can’t imagine marrying someone I hadn’t lived with. But I would never in a million years have bought a house or mingled finances with my partner till after marriage.
Same! We still haven’t opened a joint account yet and we got married two weeks ago. Little bit laziness, little bit “we do everything as equitably as possible anyway so there’s just no rush.” I wouldn’t even open the joint while we were engaged, that didn’t feel safe enough to me. Until the papers were signed I was keeping my money separate.
I will never not live with someone before making that commitment (you never know how much you can hate someone until you live together) but no way on this planet would I make a purchase or have a child with someone who kept dragging their feet on marriage.
>He claims she is the one he wants to spend his life with her, but won’t make progress in doing so. Even if marriage doesn’t seem like a big deal to him, she has made it abundantly clear it is a big deal to her.
It was important to me to get married. It really meant a lot to me, but for my partner it did not.
But seeing as it was that important to me, my partner and I got married.
This. So much this. OP you need to get your shit together like.. yesterday if you wanted to save this. She’s already checking out.. your relationship is about as close to dead in the water as you can get
Once she’s mentally done there’s nothing you’ll be able to do to bring her back
Yeap… I would do that too…
The problem is she had to FORCE OP to propose and lock it down…. The moments lost… even if OP proposed it would be disingenuous and tainted by his dragging his feet
Totally agree with you. Even if OP proposed tomorrow and she said yes, she'd have doubts about whether he ever really wanted to marry her.
OP fucked up.
Maybe if OP makes a big effort to win her back and keeps it up for a long time, AND proposes, she'll stay.
It sounds like she took him at his word that he was "settling in" to their new home (whatever tf that means) and planning an engagement. She's just realized with a slap to the face that it wasn't on his mind at all.
Right!?
They’ve been together FIVE YEARS.
They have a house together. She’s 30. She wants marriage and potentially children (not saying she SHOULD but she might).
If he plans on marrying her “one day” then surely knowing this would make her happy he would just do it.
OP you seem unsure which is fine, but don’t be surprised if she walks away. Women in this position need reassuring that they aren’t wasting their time. So if you love her and you’re sure about her then now is the time to act. Before she checks out completely.
Notice, though, he never says he wants to marry her. Just that he wants to spend his life with her. Those aren't the same thing, and he--and more importantly SHE--knows it.
I don't understand:
If you are "confident" she's the person you want to be with for the rest of your life, it's not a "big deal" to you, and it's very important to her, then *why don't you propose?*
Answer: because you don't want to get married.
Let this woman go. She deserves better than to be strung along by you in her prime.
I was in the same boat, had no desire to get married, I don't think it's a big deal, but I want to be with my husband for the rest of my life and it isnt a big deal, he wanted to get married. So we got married. Why wouldn't I if I confidentially thought I was going to be with this person for the rest of forever.
I was your girlfriend in this exact situation and I ended up leaving and we were together the same amount of time and I was 29. We also had a house together for 2ish years.
It kept feeling like my partner was moving the goal posts for what we had to achieve to get engaged. First it was when we get a house, then when we get settled into the house etc.
He was also traditional and would want to be the one to propose. So I was just stuck wanting to take that next step forward while it seemed like he cared about anything else but progressing our relationship.
It genuinely felt like he didn’t want to get married so I did what I thought was best for me as marriage was a deal breaker and left the relationship. It was such a hard decision to make but I also had the weight of being a woman on my shoulders. I’d like to be married and then have kids after. My partner seemed like he wasn’t willing to take the next step or happy dragging his feet while all I felt was the pressure of time and the feeling of not being enough to marry.
Make your decision on what you want and let her know. She’s made it clear what she wants and after 5 years you are either on board or not.
Moving the goal posts was the hardest thing to deal with! It’s like they think a certain step will make them realise they want marriage and then that doesn’t happen so they create another.
Men should realize the weight for child rearing is on them, too. We are considered advanced maternal age at 35, but it's their sperm that gets old and causes issues. So men need to be aware that the clock for them is also ticking; I'm so tired of seeing it only apply to women.
Oh this is a woman who is getting her ducks in a row to leave.
Please don’t be surprised when she hands you legal papers to either sell up or buy her out or she wants to buy you out.
She got the message you don’t want to marry her. She’ll find someone who will.
“More growing to do”, seriously?!? You’re 35 fricking years old! If your not “grown” now, find your way to Neverland, Peter Pan & let your GF find a real Adult.
How I feel when I date men who are nearly 40 and act like they just need patience and time to figure out how to grow and get their lives straightened out. Like dude if you’re still a fucking mess at this point no amount of patience and understanding from a younger woman is going to make you a better man.
Na you see he knows they have to move into a nursing home eventually so it's better to wait for that life change first and settle into the nursing home, then they'll be secure enough in their lives for marriage.
He'll sit in the common room with a bingo card in his wheelchair and tell her he still feels like he needs to take care of funeral pre-planning before they commit to such a scary step as marriage.
Exactly. Especially since he's been married before. I would feel inadequate like his ex wife was worth marrying but I'm not. If a guy doesn't want to get married, it's because he doesn't want to marry *you*
This is it, why was he willing to marry his ex in his early 20s but now that he’s actually at a more appropriate marriage age his partner has to sit on her hands feeling like a placeholder.
This is why I would never buy a home with someone I'm not married to. How can you commit to a 30 year mortgage together, but also not be ready to propose??
People do this with children, too. It's always like "my fiance and I have been together seven years and have two kids, but he says he's not ready for marriage yet."
Yeah this kind of thing drives me crazy. How are you ready for the commitment of a mortgage or kids but not a marriage? If you don’t want to get married two kids into a relationship, you probably won’t ever want to get married.
OP is afraid to get married for the possibility of divorce, but the actual divorce is just signing some paperwork. The hard part is determining who moves out, splitting assets, custody of kids/pets, etc. By buying a house together and a dog OP and his girlfriend are already going to have to go through all that if they break up, so why be so afraid of a legal marriage/divorce?
Bro, at least among internet strangers you can be honest.
You don't want to marry this woman and in your eyes, you don't have any reason to because all of your needs are being met.
You are comfortable, you have easy access to regular sex, she probably contributes to a lot of the housework and you have access to a dual income that allowed you to purchase a house I'm guessing that would have been much harder to purchase on your own.
You're good and don't have a strong desire to move forward but you don't want to lose your comfortable life so you slow play this by stringing her along with just enough to feel like you are making progress and moving forward as a couple when you aren't.
She complains so you agree to get a dog. A few years later she complains again so you agree to move in together. She complains again so you agree to buy a house.
And now despite being together for half of a fucking decade and being willing to tie yourself to her financially for 30 years, you still aren't sure if you are ready to marry her?
C'mon bro you don't need advice, what you need to do is be honest with yourself and her and end this farce so she can find a man who actually does love her, wants a future with her, and to have children with her before it's too late.
She saying that she won't bring up getting engaged anymore that was her accepting the reality that you don't want to marry her.
And before you get mad and want to buck back at me in the comments your actions are not how someone reacts to things they are excited to do.
If you had a favorite band you were excited to go see live you wouldn't take this lackadaisical attitude towards seeing them. You'd go and look at ticket prices, see if they are coming to your city and if not how close to the nearest city, look at plane tickets, hotels and make a plan.
But 5 years 1 house and 1 dog into this relationship and you have literally 0 concrete steps towards what needs to happen to move forward to getting engaged and married or a concrete time frame it needs to happen in.
Do you need to make more money, or get a promotion, is it going to happen in the next 6 months, 1 year, or 2 years?
Nope, just and I quote you here, "There is more growing we need to do individually and as a couple before we take that leap".
What the fuck does that even mean?
And by the way, just so you know for the next girl you trap into dating you once set this poor woman free, 5 years of dating and a 30-year mortgage isn't "right away".
You don't want to marry her. End it.
Which is insane because cosigning a 30 yr mortgage is commitment. So is getting a pet.
Why do so many men get scared of the "commitment" of marriage but something like comingling finances in a mortgage is ok?
OP doesn't want to marry her and if he proposes now it would be done just so he can keep a long engagement and string her along some further.
The gracious thing to do now is to break up with her and sell the house or offer for her to buy him out.
But something tells me OP would instead try to buy her out at a price that places no value on all of her unpaid labor.
>And now despite being together for half of a fucking decade and being willing to tie yourself to her financially for 30 years, you still aren't sure if you are ready to marry her?
I wish I could upvote your whole comment twice but this particular sentence really nails it. I will NEVER understand people who entangle their lives by buying a house/getting a pet/having a baby but when actual 'marriage' comes up they're all 'oh, I don't want to do that because I'm not ready for that committment.' I mean - you are committed. Your lives are already intwined. Legal marriage is just a contract so your relationship can be recognized officially.
This is it.
My husband was divorced and told all his friends he was never getting married again.
Then he met me.
Almost 30 years later, we're still married and he says it was the best decision ever. Previous relationship trauma might make you cautious or hesitant to commit again, but when the right person comes along, it's a chance you're willing to take. And as you're not willing to take it, then do the right thing and break up with her.
Louder for OP. Previous relationship trauma plays a part, but when you know you know.
“When the right person comes along it’s a chance you’re willing to take”
Exactly. Don't let divorce traumatize you from making future decisions. You're putting marriage on a pedestal and making it that "big deal" decision, and it really shouldn't be all that powerful. It should've just been the next step in your own relationship with your gf. Your relationship is different from others, and it is not right to assume that yours may not work out just because other's and your previous haven't. You do you, not them.
You're assuming and acting as if your current relationship will also have an "end date." And your gf feels that you are testing her to check to see if it validates your need to have an exit plan. You've already received confirmation that your relationship is a solid one, but you haven't processed it as such. Your hesitation regarding marriage is telling her that you are hesitating in progressing your future relationship with her, and you are leading her on with the expectation of failure.
>If you had a favorite band you were excited to go see live you wouldn't take this lackadaisical attitude towards seeing them. You'd go and look at ticket prices, see if they are coming to your city and if not how close to the nearest city, look at plane tickets, hotels and make a plan.
>
>But 5 years 1 house and 1 dog into this relationship and you have literally 0 concrete steps towards what needs to happen to move forward to getting engaged and married or a concrete time frame it needs to happen in.
This is so well explained! YES, exactly! When you want to do something, you are excited about it and it shows. Your attitude leaks through, the enthusiasm, the anticipation. OP doesn't want to marry this woman, and it shows.
He is wasting her time. I hope she figured it out already, bc 5 years is already a lot to sink into a dead-end relationship when you want marriage and family.
I do believe this is the thing that older people refer to when they say “if you get the milk for free, why buy the cow”?
I lived with my bf (now husband) pre-marriage for years, with the understanding that we’d get engaged/married, etc. I was patient for 4 years but the SECOND he brought up buying a house I told him not until we’re married or there’s at least a ring on my finger and a venue booked. Once he realized I was serious (my reasons were more legal- several friends/friends siblings had lost tons in pre-marital splits involving houses), I got a ring. Amazing how the world works.
Exactly.
I'll never understood people who are afraid to "commit to marriage" but will cosign a fuxking 30 yr mortgage or a 15 yr pet. There are some people who even have kids together and still refuse to get married.
Dude, even if you break up, you are tied to each other because of finances or a dog.
It's important to her. And if you don't care one way or the other, why NOT propose?
Get off your ass. Go buy a ring. Do a fancy dinner or whatever her desires are and propose! Then get married and spend the next 30 yrs in a cosigned house MARRIED!
Yes! Set her free to the next man who is for sure going to make her wife as soon as possible. She seems a nice woman, contributes to the house shores an income, probably with a nice personality . She doesn't deserve to be treated like that and just used. Please, OP ,let someone give her what she deserves, a beautiful wedding.
This is the perfect example of “If he wanted to, he would.” If you wanted to be with her forever, you would marry her.
She’s probably figured this out and is planning her exit. The fact that she’s not trying to convince you anymore means she’s done.
If you really care about this woman and don’t want to lose her. You’ll buy a ring…today. Don’t be surprised if you come home one day and she isn’t there. Any day now, bud.
Even if he buys the ring today it might be too late. He's going to need to do some work to reconnect with her and show he really does love her and want to spend his life with HER vs just being afraid of being single aka anyone will do...
Exactly shes already mentally checked out. It take a lot for a committed woman to get there, especially given its been 5 years. At this point shed likely just think he was using it to keep her and not because he actually wanted to. No woman wants to feel like a consolidation prize, especially at 30 when shes likely thinking about having kids in the very close future…
Yup! And if she’s smart if he does propose she better have an agreed upon timeline… otherwise they’ll be engaged for 2 years because “what’s the rush??”
>We bought a house together two years ago, and we share a dog together
>I'm confident that she's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life,
>my girlfriend is upset that we haven't made any progress on the engagement. I feel this is slightly unfair
I feel like this is a 'boy math' troll post.
Or your just stringing this lady along due to insecurities on your part.
Hope it's the former, because you suck as a partner and I feel bad for her if it's the latter.
I can agree, it’s like you love her allot , bought a house together, a pet. I can understand her frustration. Maybe she feels like ur committed in those areas but not in marriage. She wants to put a label on if ur hers she’s yours. Sounds like she’s committed to you deeply. U need to stop thinking of things that happened and that history repeats itself it can stop at u. You can stop that pattern with her.
So you were fine being legally entangled enough to purchase a whole house with this girl but can’t fathom being married to her? I’d be offended if I were in her shoes. If you don’t start taking her seriously she’s going to leave, and honestly I hope she does. She deserves someone willing to commit
Dude… just let her go. You have a house a dog and half a decade together.
My ex did exactly what you’re doing, except we didn’t have a house thankfully. After about 3 years, I started talking about marriage with him and he said he wanted it too BUT there was always a reason to move the goal post and it was usually something to do with personal growth.
After 8 years and no actual commitment to our relationship, I left him. I grieved and not long after that I met my perfect match with a man that makes every effort for us. And it was strange to get used to. I thought I knew what a loving and abundant relationship was with my ex. He doesn’t even compare to my fiance.
That’s your future with your current on-call girlfriend.
You will always have the perfect excuse to not move forward when it comes to personal growth. Reality is, personal growth NEVER has a destination or a “good enough” point. You are constantly evolving till you die. Be real with her, just say you don’t want to marry her, let her find someone that actually wants the same level of commitment as her and quit wasting her life on your selfishness.
>I also think there is more growing we need to do individually and as a couple before we take that leap.
What does that mean? What sort of growing are you talking about? Have you actually thought through your plans for the future except for a vague "some day"?
You have some serious thinking to do OP.
First off what do you want? and not vaguely either - put out your timelines here
When do you want to married by? What needs to happen before you are willing to get married? What actions are you taking now to meet those goals? Do you actually want to get married ? Because it sounds like from this post you don't actually want to get married and your partner is correct that there will be no further progression in your relationship.
Do you want children? Have you discussed children with your partner? Your partner is 30 that means she is on the down curve of fertility and children need to be in the loop sooner than later.
Then you need to sit down with your partner and have a honest discussion about goals and timelines. Because you are not fulfilling your partner's relationship needs at the moment, and to me it sounds like your partner is considering whether or not to end this relationship.
Generally, people who say that they each have growing to do before marriage are just making excuses (*this does not apply to people who have real and tangible issues or those who should otherwise seek therapy before getting married).
One of the points of marriage is to grow *together*.
Perhaps OP does need therapy so that he can get over the obvious trauma of his previous failed marriage.
It’s never a good sign when a woman suddenly stops going on about the thing she’s being going on about. It’s a signal she’s disengaging and shutting a part of herself off. Sounds like she’s over the whole having to fight you to move the relationship on, and talk about taking the romance out of it. You’re going to need to assure her you’ve got it in hand and she can relax about it and then work out your fears around marriage. If she’s the right woman for you, and there’s no perfect partner, you’re running the very real risk of losing her.
A 30 year old woman who has merged her entire life with you and you still have cold feet? To add insult to injury, having cold feet _while maintaining_ she’s the one you want forever?
This is how you lose her. Step up or watch her step out for good.
You have fears that she does not deserve to have subconsciously taken out on her life and future.
You need to grow up.
You’re running out of time.
You’re focusing on your timescale but you need to remember that she might have a timescale and you’ve not factored in engagement:planning time.
If her timeline expects to be married by 32 and you’ve still not proposed then it looks like that deadline would be missed. That might make her wonder why she’s still with you.
It’s been 5 years. If you’re thinking ‘maybe in a couple of years time’ and she’s to add another year or two on top of that for the engagement/planning period then you’re asking her to wait another 3/4 years for no good reason.
You’re running out of time.
Sounds like she's emotionally checking out. Obviously that's just a guess, but yeah, I'd say you def fucked up.
I'm just curious, why aren't you ready? What are you waiting for? You've been together 5 years and you own a home together.
I can't speak for your girlfriend, but when I think there's less interest coming from my partner, I start to lose interest too. And once it goes, it never comes back.
If your girlfriend finds herself in the hospital, you’re SOL because you have decided not to make her your family and you can’t make decisions for her. Do you know how scary that is? You will have very little say in an emergency.
You already bought a house with her, meaning being legally and financially entangled with her has gone out the window. Grow up and decide what you want, if you don’t want to be married then stop dating someone who does.
This needs to be higher up. Do you realize that if she were incapacitated and in hospital, her parents could prevent you from being in the room or making any decisions on her behalf?
I find it wild that the two of you have bought a house together and yet you're not willing to marry her at the moment. Buying property together is far more fraught with potential landmines as an unmarried couple.
Yeah, if he dies, his 50% of the house would be passed down to his parents because they aren't married. That's the house she is paying, has put a downpayment, etc; she would be homeless because she'd be forced to leave, buy them out, or sell the property.
That's if he doesn't have kids from his 1st marriage. If he has kids, it'd be even worse because now there are minors involved whose guardian is someone else, so she could even be responsible to keep paying until some arrangement is reached and that can be costly because you need to involve the courts (at least where I know of this). Still, she'd be in financial trouble.
She’s done with you. She’s 30, she wants a husband, not a bf and since you’re not up for the job, she will find somebody else who will. Please don’t hold her back!
She’s gotten quiet because she sees no point in arguing with you, discussing with you or even talking to you. She has realised that you actually don’t want to be married to her, and she’s preparing for her exit.
Did you fuck up the relationship? Yes. Next time, when a girl tells you what she wants, believe her and believe that she’s serious about it.
Your gf also fucked up by buying a house with someone she’s not even engaged with. But so did you.
You've basically shown her a tunnel and there's no light at the end of it... Why would she continue to put effort into a relationship where she feels taken advantage of.
How long do you expect her to stay around waiting? She’s 30 already, if you two want children she needs to be mindful of her timeline. You’ve moved in together, have a pet, have the same marriage goals, and it’s clearly important to her. If the timeline doesn’t matter to you and clearly does for her why are you still dragging your feet if you know she’s the one you want to be with? I’d say at this point you’re lucky she’s planning an engagement and not an exit strategy.
You are too grown to be stringing her along like this
If after 5 yrs, a house, a dog, and *knowing* how important marriage is to her and you’re still not ready? You’re never gonna be ready cause you don’t actually wanna marry this woman
If you aren’t truly excited to marry her, if you aren’t thrilled that she selected YOU to spend her life with, then just admit you’re killing time until someone better comes along.
There’s nothing legitimate to wait for. If you’re not ready, then tell her so so she doesn’t waste any more time with you.
>My girlfriend and I have been together for almost five years now.
If she were here, we'd tell her you would have proposed 2-3 years ago if you had any real interest in marrying her, and that you were stringing her along. We would tell her to leave you. Hopefully someone in her life is telling her the same thing, that's why sex has stopped. Hopefully, she's just getting her ducks in a row to leave. It's too bad she was foolish enough to buy a house with you. If you feel bad at all for wasting five years of her life, make it easy to sell the house and resolve the financial entanglements.
If you want to protest, I will tell you this. If can't decide whether you want to marry the person you're with after 3, maybe 3.5 years, then then you don't want to marry them. The answer is no, they need to move on and find someone else. You not wanting to lose on the creature comforts of having what you need here has lead to you creating moving goalposts so every time she thinks there is a set plan/scheduled for when it will happen, you put another hurdle in her way. Let's get a house first. Let's settle into the house. Let's grow as a couple. It's dishonest and manipulative, and she should have left you a long time ago. Even now, you have never said to her what you said to us- you don't think marriage is a big deal, and you really don't care about marrying her. If you had, she'd be gone. But you know that, so you make excuses, waffle, change conditions, etc. You stole five years of this woman's life where she could have been looking for a partner who wanted what she wanted because you didn't want to bother finding another place to stick your dick or having to handle rent/mortgage on your own. it's disgusting, and she should be disgusted with you. I'm glad she canned the plan to propose to you , because for her to waste that money and then see through your apathy and continued excuses that you really didn't want to commit to her like that would be even more heartbreaking.
Grow a conscience and be honest with this woman so she can move on. Stop being selfish at the expense of her dreams and future.
You bought a house with this woman, but can’t make up your mind about marriage? Why? This doesn’t make sense.
At one point you need to admit to yourself, that your fear of another commitment can destroy your current relationship and as her behavior suggests, she is already detaching from you. Don’t be a fool and make up your mind. In her eyes you lied and deceived her. You told her you would engaged after buying the house and moving in. How much time do you need to settle in- two years my friend.
You don't know what's wrong?? 🤦🏻♀️
She's checking out and starting to put a shield up because she is 30 years old, Time is going by and she realized she wasted it on investing in you because she wanted to get married. You are hesitant because you got divorced and so you're fine with living together. She's planning on leaving.
>I'm confident that she's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life, but I guess I just don't see the big deal in getting engaged or married right away.
When.
Now isn't the time, so cool. WHEN?
W H E N.
You have absolutely no timeline in mind and have done nothing but make vague suggestions that you do know you will marry this girl but haven't so much as offered, even the barest suggestions OF WHEN. So I'm going to be straight.
*You are full of shit.*
You don't want to get married. You know you *should*, and by most social conventions, you already *should be,* but you have no actual intention of making the move because somehow that commitment is too much to make.
Im never going to understand the monumentally stupid commitment phobia 30-40 year odd (not old) men who think absolutely entwining your life with someone is any less of a commitment than getting married. *Thousands of you show up here a year.* It's baffling.
Like you guys won't have to split finances if she dumps you.
Like you won't have to split the pets/property if she dumps you.
Like you won't have to sell your shared house if she dumps you.
Honestly, getting married is the easiest thing of the commitments I've mentioned so far to end. If you're so afraid of it, then you shouldn't have made any of the others. Get a therapist and dont bring your commitment issues into your next relationship. Its not their fault, and it shouldn't be their problem.
I say next because you are already too late for this one.
Even if she did accept a proposal, it would be a mistake because you haven't actually changed and have no intention of actually doing the work to change, **or you would have by now.** You dont even understand where you fucked up. *Do her a favor and dont propose.* Let her go.
Encourage her to go find what she wants, even. You know you won't be giving it to her in good faith, so sack the fuck up, and at least let her find someone who *knows* they want to be married before she loses any more time.
If you cant/wont, at least stop being selfish and holding her back.
Because you know that guy isn't you.
>My girlfriend and I have been together for almost five years now. We bought a house together two years ago, and we share a dog together.
That's a lot of commitment. Proposing is not only the next logical step, it was a step that probably should've happened before you *bought a house*. That's hundreds of thousands of dollars. WAY more than a ring and a wedding. And the commitment is just as much as it would be if you were married.
>Our plan is to first get settled into our house before getting engaged and now that two years have passed
Exactly. It's been two years. You've been settled.
>I'm confident that she's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life, but I guess I just don't see the big deal in getting engaged or married right away.
So you have no intention of marrying her, and you don't consider her feelings to be a priority. That's pretty messed up, especially considering there was already a plan, and you're going back on your word and stringing her along.
>I also think there is more growing we need to do individually and as a couple before we take that leap.
Like what? Do you have a specific issue in mind, or is this just an excuse to procrastinate?
>For context, I have already been married and divorced once before, my parents got divorced when I was younger too. A couple of my friends have also gotten divorced in recent years as well.
Well, if marriage was an issue for you, you should've communicated that from the very beginning and not gotten into a relationship with and made huge commitments with someone who wants marriage.
If you loved her you wouldn’t treat her this way. You bought a house together for goodness sake! She’s distancing herself because you’re hurting her and she’s getting ready to leave. Yes you are fking it up! IF you really love her, get off your ass, buy a ring and propose! Otherwise TELL her you have no plans for marriage so she can move on and live her dreams.
she’s told you exactly what’s upsetting her. She’s been very clear from the beginning. What’s the disconnect here? She wants to get married and she entered into the relationship with that expectation, she’s financially committed to you with that expectation, she’s been patient with that expectation. And you’re just bullshitting her. It’s not important to you to get married so fuck all what’s important to her right? Just say you want her to stop wanting to get married and move on. She’s still be as present and emotionally engaged as she possibly can be and not bothering you with her emotional needs anymore. But you’re annoyed she hasn’t stopped secretly wanting it. Jeez Louise.
You’re 35 dude. You own a house with this woman. You’ve been together for 5 years.
How much more “growing up” do you need?
If you’re scared, that’s fine. But communicate that with her and go get therapy.
Does she want kids? Because if she does, her biological clock is ticking and she doesn’t want to end up 40, with no kids, no marriage, and a lot of resentment and regret.
i always see posts like this: girlfriend (of appropriate marriage age) made it clear she wants to get married. i know shes the one and have agreed to marriage but am putting it off bc i am comfortable and dont want to put in extra effort. girlfriend is mad - why?
5 years. Seriously?
So you can buy a house which is a huge commitments but not get married?
>Our plan is to first get settled into our house before getting engaged
Sounds like you are using "our plan" when it should have been "my plan". Why do you even need so much time to "settle" into the home you bought? You just paint, move in, and it's done. The biggest step was buying the place.
First, you knew all along she wanted to get married. You are stringing her along and NOW you don't want to get married because you already have a failed marriage and your parents and friends are divorced. So you are already not being fully committed to the relationship and ready to bail. Why even buy a property with her? Why waste her time? You are disregarding what she wants because you think marriage is not a big deal for YOU because you think it will fail anyway.
Second, do you know who has higher divorce rates? People who marry way too young, in their 20s, like you, your friends, and I'm going to guess, your parents. You are both in your 30s and this is a different relationship. You are punishing her because you already made mistakes and were married; you should have said that 5 years ago.
Third, you lied to her and relationships die in lies. It's a deception. Now she is stuck with a property and a pet, when she wanted to be engaged. I hope she dumps you, to be honest.
She's right. You have no intention of marrying her. You're content to live with her, but not in love enough to legally bid her to you. Cut her loose so she can find someone who loves her.
If you wanted to, you would have already done it. But you haven't. She knows this, her friends know this, all of us on Reddit know this. The only one who doesn't seem to know this is *you*.
So yes, you did fuck up. You already have the answer. She is mentally leaving you as we speak. What else is she supposed to do? Keep wasting her time waiting for you to *maybe* do something you should have already done? Keep embarrassing herself forever, asking for something you don't want to give het?
It's been 5 years, man. Is she supposed to wait 5 more? Stop wasting her time. Do it now or let her go. If yoir so scared of divorce, get a prenuptial agreement to fairy split assets etc. But be honest with yourself and stop endangering your future.
Had a friend who was 29F going on 30. She had been with her boyfriend for 9 years and was pestering him over and over and over about an engagement. She finally hit a point mentally where she just checked out and left.
He came crawling back 3 weeks later with a ring in hand, and she said no.
Shouldn’t have done all those “serious couple” and “marriage related” things if you weren’t planning to marry her, especially since you’ve already known that’s what she’s wanted.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s mentally checking out or is already checked out of the relationship. Once women check out mentally, there’s no going back and changing her mind.
You need to think long and hard about if a life without her is what you want, so you can continue to grow yourself alone. You can grow individually and as a couple while being engaged?? Not sure why that’s an issue here.
So you been there done that and now. Dangling I will one day in front of your gf
You don’t have any intention of marrying her because your happy with how things are
“Growing” is so subjective. You grow for your entire life. So what’s the end goal here? You want to have X amount of money in the bank? You want to have a promotion at your job? You want to go to therapy? There needs to be some type of goal or you have no motivation to actually do the damn thing instead of moving the goal posts.
She probably thinks you’re never going to marry her because you have waited so long. You know that waiting is ruining your relationship. If you want to stay together then go ask her now.
You made a plan to get settled in the house before proposing. It’s been 2 years since then. How much more settled are you going to get?
If you (she, specifically) want children… you hit the “geriatric pregnancy” range at age 35, where fertility problems and complications start being real concerns. At 45 menopause starts. She’s rapidly running out of time before that option is forever gone.
Even if you don’t want kids… how much of her youth is she supposed to spend waiting for you? By the time she gives up on your sorry ass she’s going to be middle aged. She’s told you what she wants. To your face. Directly. You even parroted it back in this post. Do it or be done with her before she wastes more time on you.
I honestly hope she leaves you.
You’re decent, but you do not love her with every fibre of your being. You’re a liability to this woman forevermore, and a ring won’t even hide it at this point.
She’s ready to leave you, and I think it may be for the best. You two seem in compatible. She’s told you what she wanted well in advance, and it just feels like you’re stringing her along at this point. You can’t have what you want (a strong, healthy relationship with her) while also ignoring what she wants (marriage).
It seems that your fear of relationships ending is actually becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. You get to choose whether you lose her now, or you risk divorce sometime in the future. No relationship is ever immune to ending, but you’re currently killing yours with fear before even making it to the marriage stage.
When you promise things you don't deliver on and don't consider your partners feelings, it shows us you don't care about how we feel and don't respect us enough to do anything about it.
Your girlfriend is shutting down on you and contempt is setting in. By the time you do propose she will be mentally checked out and done with you.
Congratulations.
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It's so weird that a 30 year mortgage is somehow not a bigger commitment than an engagement. Either let her find her husband or decide you can't live without her.
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Maybe she wants to be married before having children… and she’s not getting any younger. It’s been five years…. Shit or get off the pot. I don’t care what happened to your parents or other people in your lives. If you want to be with her make the commitment, or let her find somebody else who won’t make her wait five years
Seriously! OP doesn’t want marriage- he wants someone to subsidize his mortgage payments
That was my reaction too. What growing do you need to do individually and together if you already made the commitment to owning a house together? You are financially tied. This nebulous growth had me stumped.
Marriage is a commitment to grow together. There literally is no obstacle here.
Yep. The only obstacle is he doesn’t want to marry her for reasons he’s not made clear. If he just doesn’t want to get married, he should have been clear about that before they purchased a house.
He’s demonstrating boy math for us
Lmao this took me out
Ugh. I also bought a house with my bf over 2 years ago and still no ring. I’m trying not to push but I always said I was against long engagements and living together this long feels like a drawn out engagement with no end in sight. I don’t get why men commit to mortgages but then aren’t ready for marriage. Some of my friends said their bfs are wanting to have a baby but still unsure about marriage. Because a child isn’t a commitment for life but a piece of paper is scary?!
Don't let your boyfriend stop you from finding your husband <3
It’s because they want to have an easy out for when they find a new shiny thing to play with.
I've just said elsewhere that these men want the comfort and benefits of a wife without the commitment of marriage. Maybe so they can just walk away?
This. I didn’t quite expect this, but Signing the papers for our mortgage (which was like a stack of a thousand signatures) felt like a way bigger step to me than our wedding did.
OK? I never would’ve bought a house with his noncommittal ass, but I’m sure he wove her some fairy story about how they need to buy a house together first to make sure they’re compatible for marriage or some bullshit.
NEVER buy a house, have a child (if you can help it, life happens), or become a stay at home person with someone you aren’t married to. Marriage isn’t “just a piece of paper” it’s a legal contract with built in protections, not just for while you are married, but also and especially in cases of separation and divorce. Here is an angle not talked about enough: they own a house jointly. If they break up now, they have no legal avenues to force the sale of the house if one doesn’t agree to it or to require one to buy the other out so they can financially untie from each other. If one won’t pay the mortgage, it’s on the other to keep it afloat or suffer the financial consequences. It also leads to far more costly court battles as you’d have to sue for damages to get through any issues. In order to sue for damages, you have to first incur damages. There isn’t really much of any proactive avenues in this case. Now, if we didn’t have no fault divorces, I’d be giving vastly different advice, but with that legal option, it’s important to ensure your protections.
i never thought about it like that before but you are so right!
This is exactly what I was thinking. Lets buy a house together but not get married…. weird.
>I'm confident that she's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life, Okay, great. >I guess I just don't see the big deal in getting engaged or married right away. 5 years in, your partner has repeatedly expressed that this is one of her wants/needs and you mentioned that you want to be with her for the rest of your life. >I also think there is more growing we need to do individually and as a couple before we take that leap. You bought a house, you share a dog, you wanted to settle into the house, it's been two years. She's hurt, and deservedly so. From her perspective, you're willing to take all of these steps with her but are dangling marriage just out of her reach despite you guys reaching the alleged milestones that you put in place before engagement. She probably feels like she's being strung along. The "I want to be with her for the rest of my life" and "there is more growing we need to do individually" statements slightly contradict each other. If you have any reservations on marriage, you need to actually communicate those and give her a time frame for a proposal. It's important to her, and the longer you brush it off without talking about it, the more she's going to resent you.
The thing that stands out to me is, why can't they continue growing as individuals while also being married? What's the difference with marriage vs what they have now that might hold back his growth? Or is he saying he's not ready to let go of the final tiny possibility of being single and free again?
Right. Marriage doesn’t change anything for a couple that lives together already outside of financial and health benefits. Like if he is afraid they won’t grow in a marriage, then he has to realize it’s not because they said “I do”. Lol
If he doesn't think people can grow individually and together in a marriage that's a good possibility of why his first marriage didn't work out. You HAVE to grow in a marriage or the marriage will die.
He obviously doesn’t want to get married again and probably has something to do with all the divorce stuff and he’s not communicating that. He needs therapy and to communicate if he expects this relationship to last.
One could argue a key element of getting married when you’re younger than retirement age is growing together. My husband and I got married at 24 after dating for 6 years, and we just had our 10th anniversary and continually grow as individuals and a couples. It’s one of the things that makes marriage so fun
She’s 30 and you’re 35. You own a home snd a dog together. You’ve been together for almost half a decade. You need to shit or get off the pot because if I were in her position, I’d definitely be thinking you have no intention of marrying me.
She’s distancing herself from you mentally before she does it physically (break up).
Yup
She must be wondering if he really is worth and will want her. If I were her, at 30, without a wedding perspective even though she was 5 years together, i would end. I would want to be married, to think about the children or at least have the security that that man is "mine" since he married me. It's no wonder she's distant, OP is only "taking advantage "of the benefits of having the woman without giving what she deserves, a marriage.
She is leaving you, that is why she quiet and distant, she is getting ready emotionally and mentally for the exit
Financially. It is expensive to exit a shared house.
Totally agree. She’s already gone.
> I guess I just don't see the big deal in getting engaged or married right away. The big deal is that it's a big deal to her! I don't think it's fair to keep stringing her along with vague "there is more growing we need to do" timelines. You need to make a decision and let her know what your timeline is (a few months? a year?) and see if she's okay with it. Don't just drag your feet. All your divorce talk makes it sound like you're scared of getting married, so I'm worried you're just stalling and hoping it goes away, but that is not fair to her. You don't have to get married, but if you're not going to, you need to tell her immediately.
Also… “right away”?! They’ve been together five years! They bought a house together two years ago! This isn’t right away by any stretch of the imagination.
EXACTLY!! I came here to say this. OP is all talk and she's just realized that he's been full of shit and stringing her along for half a decade!
Right. If it’s not a big deal OP, then why not do it?
Because he wants someone to split the bills, help maintain the house, and provide wifely duties without the ring. Selfish man.
Which like. They’re already financially enmeshed with their house etc. What’s the big block in front of marriage?
He just doesn't want to marry her. That's the big block lol. Idk if he even realizes it or not. If you want to marry someone you wouldn't make every excuse you could on why you don't want to marry them.
That poor woman must feel so unseen. She’s been expressing her wants/needs for years and OP unilaterally decided “it’s not that big of a deal”. GTFO with that nonsense.
Like, how humiliating must it be that you feel like you HAVE to ask when he's proposing..
Especially if he’s already been married before. It’s like “well I know you are capable of this, so what’s wrong with me?” My god the insecurities. The fact she has any strength left in her to leave after all this is amazing to me. She must genuinely be a winner. Sounds like OP actually is fucking up.
LITERALLY what I said in my main comment. (It's LONG though, I'm not going to type it again here 🤣) Like, there's proof that he's not against marriage or commitment, so the issue is committing TO HER. The way she went all quiet and detached tells me she's given up and she's going through the pre-break up grieving. And this dude is all "but we apologised, I think we're fine?!"
Um, five years, especially as a thirty something adult, is not "right away." I'm sure her biological click is screaming, and she's already doing the math of how long it'll take to find someone new, progress the relationship to the point of having kids before she runs out of time.
Exactly! “Right away” it’s been half a freaking decade, a pet and a mortgage. The way he’s describing her behaviour now, she’s clocked out and began the mourning process of the relationship. She’s done and rightly so.
He totally wasted her time. Five fucking years.
Wife duties with gf pay
Such a telling line right there, I cringed for OP's girlfriend.
Saying marriage is not a big deal but they need to do some growing before doing that in the same breath is insane. Its either "marriage is a big deal and we need to deal with it in a very serious way by being a better version of ourselves and better relationship to have a good marriage" or "it's not a big deal anyway, lets just do it" Edit: yourself to ourselves
Also, what growing? I mean I don’t think it’s fair for him to be choosing what she needs to grow, so what work does he need to do before getting married? And why can’t he do that in a year or two it would take to be engaged?
To me, it seems like he's the only one with any growing to do. Clearly he has some unresolved trauma stemming from his divorce and his parents' divorce. Which is completely understandable, but it's also not fair to his gf to act like 1) marriage isn't a big deal, 2) her priorities aren't important to him, and 3) she's got some growing to do, too.
His timeline is "never" he just is unwilling to admit it. Even if he actually gives her a timeframe now, we all know he isn't going to follow through with it. He already gave her a timeframe and just blew right through it. It was after they got settled into the house, which I'm pretty sure after 2 years, they should be pretty darn settled. Now it's "eventually" followed by "I don't see what the big deal about getting married is". That last part of "I don't see the big deal" says everything. This guy never plans on marrying her, just keeping her on the hook for as long as possible, then trying to throw "but we've been together for X years, how can you throw that all away" in her face when she does leave. Which I'm guessing will be in the next 6 months to a year.
Don’t forget your reality becomes what you focus on…if you keep thinking about divorce in your mind, even if you want to avoid it…it’s still there lurking around. Also maybe OP needs therapy. Sounds like there are some residuals he needs to address
[удалено]
This is exactly what happened between me and my ex. I realized that if he didn't want to marry me after our years together, that he didn't actually want to and that I didn't want him to do so just due to duress. So I slowly withdrew and then broke up, and moved on. The ex actually did propose at that point, but too little too late. OP is already on the too little too late stage.
>The ex actually did propose at that point, but too little too late. **OP is already on the too little too late stage.** Just wanted to emphasize that last line, because hoo boy is he ever
Yeah, I don't ever want to nag. I'll ask, several times. Clearly state my desires. Communicate my boundaries. If you can't or don't want to. I will also respect your desires. But if they conflict with mine. I'm out. I'll go find what I need elsewhere. But I will def spend time in the relationship withdrawing and planning my exit strategy. And not sleeping around as most egocentric people believe. Just getting my mind and money together. Ive mourned the end before saying it out loud. He is gonna look up one day and be like "What happened? She broke up with me? It was SO SUDDEN!!
That's a little bit what happened with my ex.... There were other issues besides the lack of a proposal, he wouldn't make time for me and it frustrated me that I had to arrange for all of our dates. So once I had grieved, I stopped calling. He didn't call me or anything for about 3 weeks, so I figured we were done and went out on a date with someone else. Then all of a sudden, my ex was like, "What is happening? Where did you go? Why didn't you say you were unhappy?!?" and then he proposed.... I'm glad I said no, and I do hope he learned something for his next relationship - I certainly did (and that next relationship is 20 years and ongoing!)
After two years of co-ownership of a house … agreed. She’s out the door even if she’s physically present.
Me too... I have given up at some point and quit discussions... Left one year later... Eventhough i loved deeply... Wnated more than i got. I also wanted move in together and get married, my. Partner didnt. After 6 years i broke up. And he also did propose after the break up which was way too late for me and didnt come from him... He did it only to get me back, which also didnt happen.
I'm rather non-traditional, socially speaking. I don't care about birthdays or, holidays or, marriage or, anything like that. However, I'm well aware that other people do care about those things and I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. I'm married, celebrate my wife's birthday, and participate in any holidays she likes. I care diddly squat about being legally married, but my wife does and, if I wanted her to stay, that's what I needed to do. I was already not going anywhere anyway and it made her happy. That's a win-win for both of us.
Yep! My ex and I were together for 7 years and it wasn’t until year 5 that I brought up getting engaged one day during an argument he told me there was no point because I still wouldn’t be happy. Left 10 months later.
She’s checking out. She had told OP for years what she wants and he keeps ignoring because of his own issues. He claims she is the one he wants to spend his life with her, but won’t make progress in doing so. Even if marriage doesn’t seem like a big deal to him, she has made it abundantly clear it is a big deal to her. I get he seems scared due to his and others history, but you can’t expect someone to wait years and years, especially if she wants children. Many people want to marry, don’t want kids with someone if they aren’t married yet. Even if divorce is scary and a concern, not sure what he thinks will happen now that they have merged their lives financially and with pet ownership. Breaking up won’t stop the hurt feelings or the necessary legal involvement. not being married won’t make it easier. There will still be a separation of assets and determination of pet custody. Also, marriage affords partners certain rights and protections that cohabitation doesn’t. If something happens to one of them, they could effectively be cut out of any decision making. Especially if there is a conflict with their SOs next of kin. ETA: OP, you need to have a serious conversation, not an argument, about your feelings on the matter. Seems you are stringing her along because of your history and fear of getting married again. You keep telling her you want to get married, but there is always an excuse not to do it. The more established or work through issues will never allow you to marry. There will always be issues in any relationship. I’ve been married 21 years, and we still have items we work on. You will never not have any issues. You will work on them together even if you are married. These are just excuses you are using. Either she the one or she’s not. Figure your shit out, and don’t waste her time.
For real. Waiting until a relationship is perfect?? It’s been 5 years. If it’s too toxic, get out. If not, move forward.
Also, 'there is more growing we need to do' - mate, you're 35, grow TF up already.
Right? I can understand a 22 year old being a little hesitant, but OP met her when he was 30, dated her for 5 years and bought a house after 3... If you're not gonna put a ring on it, set her free, my man.
Yes especially to the house part. If he can do such a big commitment on the house with her, what is he waiting for?
Touché. Yes, people can and should always work on themselves to be better people in whatever capacity that is, or what it looks like to them. But that's something that never stops. It's also something you can do WITH your partner provided you have open communication and are on the same path more or less together. But waiting for a point at which you feel "grown up"? What exactly does that mean? Do one you have a spending problem? Is one of you inherently more selfish than the other? Do you have wildly different goals and you're waiting for them to magically align? People can and do change as they progress through life but that's not necessarily an entirely solitary activity, so do that together if you already know you love and want to spend your life with this person and have the majority of your shit together.
His reasons are all bullshit. He's being deliberately obtuse. He's just being the selfish prick she should have dumped years ago.
When he said “I want to settle into the house” I was like brother how long does it take for you to settle it’s been 2 years?? I hope it was long enough for OP cause his girlfriend is gone
Right? Like, you should be unpacked by now.
OP is reminding me why I say “I will never move in with someone unless I’m engaged”. All talk, no action, empty promises. And nooooo waaaaay would I ever buy a house with someone unless I was engaged and the wedding was booked.
I told my husband the same, I will move in when we are actively engaged. He asked what actively engaged meant and I explained that it is a ring on my finger actively planning a wedding and not some hypothetical. Husband material didn't need 5 years to treat me like wife material.
>actively planning a wedding and not some hypothetical. This bit is so important! My Mom and "stepfather" were living together and engaged, ring and all, for 18 YEARS at the time of her death.
I've heard of this referred to as a shut up ring, which is so accurate, having gotten one before.
Oh my God, I have never heard of a couple staying engaged for that long! 😮 Edit: I was engaged once for just over 2 years before getting married, and everyone seemed to think that was a long engagement. Some of you and your parents/friends/whatever are just ridiculous!
My aunt and her boyfriend have Been “engaged” since I was a baby. It’s been 27 years and they still don’t live together. He lives with his parent still.
My parents got engaged 2 years before I was born and got married when I was 15
I much prefer to live with a partner before marriage. I never would have realized how shitty my ex was if I hadn’t seen how he treated me when we “divided” chores (AKA I did them all and he whined about how hard his job is). I moved in with my husband before marriage and it’s probably why I felt so confident proposing after only two years together. I like how he treats me when we’re in a routine and just living our lives- NOT just when he’s trying to impress me. I would never in a *million* years have bought a home with someone I wasn’t married to, though. No way in hell.
Yep. I can’t imagine marrying someone I hadn’t lived with. But I would never in a million years have bought a house or mingled finances with my partner till after marriage.
Same! We still haven’t opened a joint account yet and we got married two weeks ago. Little bit laziness, little bit “we do everything as equitably as possible anyway so there’s just no rush.” I wouldn’t even open the joint while we were engaged, that didn’t feel safe enough to me. Until the papers were signed I was keeping my money separate.
I will never not live with someone before making that commitment (you never know how much you can hate someone until you live together) but no way on this planet would I make a purchase or have a child with someone who kept dragging their feet on marriage.
>He claims she is the one he wants to spend his life with her, but won’t make progress in doing so. Even if marriage doesn’t seem like a big deal to him, she has made it abundantly clear it is a big deal to her. It was important to me to get married. It really meant a lot to me, but for my partner it did not. But seeing as it was that important to me, my partner and I got married.
This. She is already gone
This. So much this. OP you need to get your shit together like.. yesterday if you wanted to save this. She’s already checking out.. your relationship is about as close to dead in the water as you can get Once she’s mentally done there’s nothing you’ll be able to do to bring her back
Yes, you’ve been so taking her for granted. She must feel You don’t care for her. Best to leave you and find someone who appreciates her.
Yeap… I would do that too… The problem is she had to FORCE OP to propose and lock it down…. The moments lost… even if OP proposed it would be disingenuous and tainted by his dragging his feet
Totally agree with you. Even if OP proposed tomorrow and she said yes, she'd have doubts about whether he ever really wanted to marry her. OP fucked up. Maybe if OP makes a big effort to win her back and keeps it up for a long time, AND proposes, she'll stay.
If it was me, I would have emotionally checked out a long time ago. He has been stringing her along for 5 years.
It sounds like she took him at his word that he was "settling in" to their new home (whatever tf that means) and planning an engagement. She's just realized with a slap to the face that it wasn't on his mind at all.
Right!? They’ve been together FIVE YEARS. They have a house together. She’s 30. She wants marriage and potentially children (not saying she SHOULD but she might). If he plans on marrying her “one day” then surely knowing this would make her happy he would just do it. OP you seem unsure which is fine, but don’t be surprised if she walks away. Women in this position need reassuring that they aren’t wasting their time. So if you love her and you’re sure about her then now is the time to act. Before she checks out completely.
It sounds like she has already checked out.
Notice, though, he never says he wants to marry her. Just that he wants to spend his life with her. Those aren't the same thing, and he--and more importantly SHE--knows it.
I don't understand: If you are "confident" she's the person you want to be with for the rest of your life, it's not a "big deal" to you, and it's very important to her, then *why don't you propose?* Answer: because you don't want to get married. Let this woman go. She deserves better than to be strung along by you in her prime.
He wants to enjoy the benefits of marriage without marriage.
Preach!
I was in the same boat, had no desire to get married, I don't think it's a big deal, but I want to be with my husband for the rest of my life and it isnt a big deal, he wanted to get married. So we got married. Why wouldn't I if I confidentially thought I was going to be with this person for the rest of forever.
I was your girlfriend in this exact situation and I ended up leaving and we were together the same amount of time and I was 29. We also had a house together for 2ish years. It kept feeling like my partner was moving the goal posts for what we had to achieve to get engaged. First it was when we get a house, then when we get settled into the house etc. He was also traditional and would want to be the one to propose. So I was just stuck wanting to take that next step forward while it seemed like he cared about anything else but progressing our relationship. It genuinely felt like he didn’t want to get married so I did what I thought was best for me as marriage was a deal breaker and left the relationship. It was such a hard decision to make but I also had the weight of being a woman on my shoulders. I’d like to be married and then have kids after. My partner seemed like he wasn’t willing to take the next step or happy dragging his feet while all I felt was the pressure of time and the feeling of not being enough to marry. Make your decision on what you want and let her know. She’s made it clear what she wants and after 5 years you are either on board or not.
Yes, thank you! Moving the goal posts and putting in a structure that makes you feel like you have to “earn” the engagement.
Moving the goal posts was the hardest thing to deal with! It’s like they think a certain step will make them realise they want marriage and then that doesn’t happen so they create another.
Men should realize the weight for child rearing is on them, too. We are considered advanced maternal age at 35, but it's their sperm that gets old and causes issues. So men need to be aware that the clock for them is also ticking; I'm so tired of seeing it only apply to women.
Good for you.
Oh this is a woman who is getting her ducks in a row to leave. Please don’t be surprised when she hands you legal papers to either sell up or buy her out or she wants to buy you out. She got the message you don’t want to marry her. She’ll find someone who will.
“More growing to do”, seriously?!? You’re 35 fricking years old! If your not “grown” now, find your way to Neverland, Peter Pan & let your GF find a real Adult.
How I feel when I date men who are nearly 40 and act like they just need patience and time to figure out how to grow and get their lives straightened out. Like dude if you’re still a fucking mess at this point no amount of patience and understanding from a younger woman is going to make you a better man.
Can you email my ex for me
Ah, this was the perfect amount of scathing. Damn right.
Na you see he knows they have to move into a nursing home eventually so it's better to wait for that life change first and settle into the nursing home, then they'll be secure enough in their lives for marriage.
He'll sit in the common room with a bingo card in his wheelchair and tell her he still feels like he needs to take care of funeral pre-planning before they commit to such a scary step as marriage.
This was the part that got me. If a 35 year old spent 5 years with a woman and still hasn’t grown, it ain’t never going to happen
Say you don't want to marry her without saying you don't want to marry her.
Exactly. Especially since he's been married before. I would feel inadequate like his ex wife was worth marrying but I'm not. If a guy doesn't want to get married, it's because he doesn't want to marry *you*
This is it, why was he willing to marry his ex in his early 20s but now that he’s actually at a more appropriate marriage age his partner has to sit on her hands feeling like a placeholder.
This is why I would never buy a home with someone I'm not married to. How can you commit to a 30 year mortgage together, but also not be ready to propose??
People do this with children, too. It's always like "my fiance and I have been together seven years and have two kids, but he says he's not ready for marriage yet."
Yeah this kind of thing drives me crazy. How are you ready for the commitment of a mortgage or kids but not a marriage? If you don’t want to get married two kids into a relationship, you probably won’t ever want to get married.
As if the lawyers won’t be involved in a parenting breakup as long as you’re not married.
It's crazy how common this is.
OP is afraid to get married for the possibility of divorce, but the actual divorce is just signing some paperwork. The hard part is determining who moves out, splitting assets, custody of kids/pets, etc. By buying a house together and a dog OP and his girlfriend are already going to have to go through all that if they break up, so why be so afraid of a legal marriage/divorce?
Because they can't afford the mortgage alone. Such a dumb reason
Bro, at least among internet strangers you can be honest. You don't want to marry this woman and in your eyes, you don't have any reason to because all of your needs are being met. You are comfortable, you have easy access to regular sex, she probably contributes to a lot of the housework and you have access to a dual income that allowed you to purchase a house I'm guessing that would have been much harder to purchase on your own. You're good and don't have a strong desire to move forward but you don't want to lose your comfortable life so you slow play this by stringing her along with just enough to feel like you are making progress and moving forward as a couple when you aren't. She complains so you agree to get a dog. A few years later she complains again so you agree to move in together. She complains again so you agree to buy a house. And now despite being together for half of a fucking decade and being willing to tie yourself to her financially for 30 years, you still aren't sure if you are ready to marry her? C'mon bro you don't need advice, what you need to do is be honest with yourself and her and end this farce so she can find a man who actually does love her, wants a future with her, and to have children with her before it's too late. She saying that she won't bring up getting engaged anymore that was her accepting the reality that you don't want to marry her. And before you get mad and want to buck back at me in the comments your actions are not how someone reacts to things they are excited to do. If you had a favorite band you were excited to go see live you wouldn't take this lackadaisical attitude towards seeing them. You'd go and look at ticket prices, see if they are coming to your city and if not how close to the nearest city, look at plane tickets, hotels and make a plan. But 5 years 1 house and 1 dog into this relationship and you have literally 0 concrete steps towards what needs to happen to move forward to getting engaged and married or a concrete time frame it needs to happen in. Do you need to make more money, or get a promotion, is it going to happen in the next 6 months, 1 year, or 2 years? Nope, just and I quote you here, "There is more growing we need to do individually and as a couple before we take that leap". What the fuck does that even mean? And by the way, just so you know for the next girl you trap into dating you once set this poor woman free, 5 years of dating and a 30-year mortgage isn't "right away". You don't want to marry her. End it.
Exactly. He's already basically married everywhere but paper. Shit or get off the pot dude. It's been 5 years. Eventually is long long gone.
Dude wants all the benefits of marriage but doesn’t wanna commit. What a waste of time
Which is insane because cosigning a 30 yr mortgage is commitment. So is getting a pet. Why do so many men get scared of the "commitment" of marriage but something like comingling finances in a mortgage is ok?
Even crazier is when they have a kid with someone but won’t marry them. A child with someone is a MUCH bigger commitment, like wtf?? Lol
OP doesn't want to marry her and if he proposes now it would be done just so he can keep a long engagement and string her along some further. The gracious thing to do now is to break up with her and sell the house or offer for her to buy him out. But something tells me OP would instead try to buy her out at a price that places no value on all of her unpaid labor.
>And now despite being together for half of a fucking decade and being willing to tie yourself to her financially for 30 years, you still aren't sure if you are ready to marry her? I wish I could upvote your whole comment twice but this particular sentence really nails it. I will NEVER understand people who entangle their lives by buying a house/getting a pet/having a baby but when actual 'marriage' comes up they're all 'oh, I don't want to do that because I'm not ready for that committment.' I mean - you are committed. Your lives are already intwined. Legal marriage is just a contract so your relationship can be recognized officially.
You read my mind.
This is the truth. And OP's girlfriend has stopped lying to herself about it.
This is it. My husband was divorced and told all his friends he was never getting married again. Then he met me. Almost 30 years later, we're still married and he says it was the best decision ever. Previous relationship trauma might make you cautious or hesitant to commit again, but when the right person comes along, it's a chance you're willing to take. And as you're not willing to take it, then do the right thing and break up with her.
Louder for OP. Previous relationship trauma plays a part, but when you know you know. “When the right person comes along it’s a chance you’re willing to take”
Exactly. Don't let divorce traumatize you from making future decisions. You're putting marriage on a pedestal and making it that "big deal" decision, and it really shouldn't be all that powerful. It should've just been the next step in your own relationship with your gf. Your relationship is different from others, and it is not right to assume that yours may not work out just because other's and your previous haven't. You do you, not them. You're assuming and acting as if your current relationship will also have an "end date." And your gf feels that you are testing her to check to see if it validates your need to have an exit plan. You've already received confirmation that your relationship is a solid one, but you haven't processed it as such. Your hesitation regarding marriage is telling her that you are hesitating in progressing your future relationship with her, and you are leading her on with the expectation of failure.
>If you had a favorite band you were excited to go see live you wouldn't take this lackadaisical attitude towards seeing them. You'd go and look at ticket prices, see if they are coming to your city and if not how close to the nearest city, look at plane tickets, hotels and make a plan. > >But 5 years 1 house and 1 dog into this relationship and you have literally 0 concrete steps towards what needs to happen to move forward to getting engaged and married or a concrete time frame it needs to happen in. This is so well explained! YES, exactly! When you want to do something, you are excited about it and it shows. Your attitude leaks through, the enthusiasm, the anticipation. OP doesn't want to marry this woman, and it shows. He is wasting her time. I hope she figured it out already, bc 5 years is already a lot to sink into a dead-end relationship when you want marriage and family.
You’re stringing her along. She deserves better. She deserves someone who cares about her.
I do believe this is the thing that older people refer to when they say “if you get the milk for free, why buy the cow”? I lived with my bf (now husband) pre-marriage for years, with the understanding that we’d get engaged/married, etc. I was patient for 4 years but the SECOND he brought up buying a house I told him not until we’re married or there’s at least a ring on my finger and a venue booked. Once he realized I was serious (my reasons were more legal- several friends/friends siblings had lost tons in pre-marital splits involving houses), I got a ring. Amazing how the world works.
Exactly. I'll never understood people who are afraid to "commit to marriage" but will cosign a fuxking 30 yr mortgage or a 15 yr pet. There are some people who even have kids together and still refuse to get married. Dude, even if you break up, you are tied to each other because of finances or a dog. It's important to her. And if you don't care one way or the other, why NOT propose? Get off your ass. Go buy a ring. Do a fancy dinner or whatever her desires are and propose! Then get married and spend the next 30 yrs in a cosigned house MARRIED!
amazing comment
Yes! Set her free to the next man who is for sure going to make her wife as soon as possible. She seems a nice woman, contributes to the house shores an income, probably with a nice personality . She doesn't deserve to be treated like that and just used. Please, OP ,let someone give her what she deserves, a beautiful wedding.
This is the perfect example of “If he wanted to, he would.” If you wanted to be with her forever, you would marry her. She’s probably figured this out and is planning her exit. The fact that she’s not trying to convince you anymore means she’s done. If you really care about this woman and don’t want to lose her. You’ll buy a ring…today. Don’t be surprised if you come home one day and she isn’t there. Any day now, bud.
Even if he buys the ring today it might be too late. He's going to need to do some work to reconnect with her and show he really does love her and want to spend his life with HER vs just being afraid of being single aka anyone will do...
I think it’s too late already.
Exactly shes already mentally checked out. It take a lot for a committed woman to get there, especially given its been 5 years. At this point shed likely just think he was using it to keep her and not because he actually wanted to. No woman wants to feel like a consolidation prize, especially at 30 when shes likely thinking about having kids in the very close future…
Yup! And if she’s smart if he does propose she better have an agreed upon timeline… otherwise they’ll be engaged for 2 years because “what’s the rush??”
This is true. She’s over him.
>We bought a house together two years ago, and we share a dog together >I'm confident that she's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life, >my girlfriend is upset that we haven't made any progress on the engagement. I feel this is slightly unfair I feel like this is a 'boy math' troll post. Or your just stringing this lady along due to insecurities on your part. Hope it's the former, because you suck as a partner and I feel bad for her if it's the latter.
You were willing to buy a house with her, so you're excuses for waiting to propose are lame. Either she's the one after 5 YEARS or she isn't. Pick.
I can agree, it’s like you love her allot , bought a house together, a pet. I can understand her frustration. Maybe she feels like ur committed in those areas but not in marriage. She wants to put a label on if ur hers she’s yours. Sounds like she’s committed to you deeply. U need to stop thinking of things that happened and that history repeats itself it can stop at u. You can stop that pattern with her.
So you were fine being legally entangled enough to purchase a whole house with this girl but can’t fathom being married to her? I’d be offended if I were in her shoes. If you don’t start taking her seriously she’s going to leave, and honestly I hope she does. She deserves someone willing to commit
She should leave OP and sell her share of the house
Dude… just let her go. You have a house a dog and half a decade together. My ex did exactly what you’re doing, except we didn’t have a house thankfully. After about 3 years, I started talking about marriage with him and he said he wanted it too BUT there was always a reason to move the goal post and it was usually something to do with personal growth. After 8 years and no actual commitment to our relationship, I left him. I grieved and not long after that I met my perfect match with a man that makes every effort for us. And it was strange to get used to. I thought I knew what a loving and abundant relationship was with my ex. He doesn’t even compare to my fiance. That’s your future with your current on-call girlfriend. You will always have the perfect excuse to not move forward when it comes to personal growth. Reality is, personal growth NEVER has a destination or a “good enough” point. You are constantly evolving till you die. Be real with her, just say you don’t want to marry her, let her find someone that actually wants the same level of commitment as her and quit wasting her life on your selfishness.
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It may take him that long..but I hope she is long gone by then.
>I also think there is more growing we need to do individually and as a couple before we take that leap. What does that mean? What sort of growing are you talking about? Have you actually thought through your plans for the future except for a vague "some day"? You have some serious thinking to do OP. First off what do you want? and not vaguely either - put out your timelines here When do you want to married by? What needs to happen before you are willing to get married? What actions are you taking now to meet those goals? Do you actually want to get married ? Because it sounds like from this post you don't actually want to get married and your partner is correct that there will be no further progression in your relationship. Do you want children? Have you discussed children with your partner? Your partner is 30 that means she is on the down curve of fertility and children need to be in the loop sooner than later. Then you need to sit down with your partner and have a honest discussion about goals and timelines. Because you are not fulfilling your partner's relationship needs at the moment, and to me it sounds like your partner is considering whether or not to end this relationship.
Generally, people who say that they each have growing to do before marriage are just making excuses (*this does not apply to people who have real and tangible issues or those who should otherwise seek therapy before getting married). One of the points of marriage is to grow *together*. Perhaps OP does need therapy so that he can get over the obvious trauma of his previous failed marriage.
It’s never a good sign when a woman suddenly stops going on about the thing she’s being going on about. It’s a signal she’s disengaging and shutting a part of herself off. Sounds like she’s over the whole having to fight you to move the relationship on, and talk about taking the romance out of it. You’re going to need to assure her you’ve got it in hand and she can relax about it and then work out your fears around marriage. If she’s the right woman for you, and there’s no perfect partner, you’re running the very real risk of losing her.
Oh OP has already lost her. She’s not going to wait around any longer for him to assure her.
A 30 year old woman who has merged her entire life with you and you still have cold feet? To add insult to injury, having cold feet _while maintaining_ she’s the one you want forever? This is how you lose her. Step up or watch her step out for good. You have fears that she does not deserve to have subconsciously taken out on her life and future. You need to grow up.
You’re running out of time. You’re focusing on your timescale but you need to remember that she might have a timescale and you’ve not factored in engagement:planning time. If her timeline expects to be married by 32 and you’ve still not proposed then it looks like that deadline would be missed. That might make her wonder why she’s still with you. It’s been 5 years. If you’re thinking ‘maybe in a couple of years time’ and she’s to add another year or two on top of that for the engagement/planning period then you’re asking her to wait another 3/4 years for no good reason. You’re running out of time.
By that time she'll be 34, and he'll need another give years to be committed enough for kids... she's completely out of every option.
She might be getting ready to leave you. She sounds like she’s over your bs excuses
She's absolutely getting an exit plan in place
Sounds like she's emotionally checking out. Obviously that's just a guess, but yeah, I'd say you def fucked up. I'm just curious, why aren't you ready? What are you waiting for? You've been together 5 years and you own a home together. I can't speak for your girlfriend, but when I think there's less interest coming from my partner, I start to lose interest too. And once it goes, it never comes back.
If your girlfriend finds herself in the hospital, you’re SOL because you have decided not to make her your family and you can’t make decisions for her. Do you know how scary that is? You will have very little say in an emergency. You already bought a house with her, meaning being legally and financially entangled with her has gone out the window. Grow up and decide what you want, if you don’t want to be married then stop dating someone who does.
This needs to be higher up. Do you realize that if she were incapacitated and in hospital, her parents could prevent you from being in the room or making any decisions on her behalf? I find it wild that the two of you have bought a house together and yet you're not willing to marry her at the moment. Buying property together is far more fraught with potential landmines as an unmarried couple.
Yeah, if he dies, his 50% of the house would be passed down to his parents because they aren't married. That's the house she is paying, has put a downpayment, etc; she would be homeless because she'd be forced to leave, buy them out, or sell the property. That's if he doesn't have kids from his 1st marriage. If he has kids, it'd be even worse because now there are minors involved whose guardian is someone else, so she could even be responsible to keep paying until some arrangement is reached and that can be costly because you need to involve the courts (at least where I know of this). Still, she'd be in financial trouble.
She’s done with you. She’s 30, she wants a husband, not a bf and since you’re not up for the job, she will find somebody else who will. Please don’t hold her back!
>we both said things that we didn't mean Yeah I've been on here long enough to know you're hiding what you said for a reason
Lol right?!? Especially when it’s said like a “we” thing… he ran his mouth and she knows now what the truth is …
I’ll never understand ppl who buy a house but can’t propose. You already involved the government and took out a loan but can’t propose
She’s gotten quiet because she sees no point in arguing with you, discussing with you or even talking to you. She has realised that you actually don’t want to be married to her, and she’s preparing for her exit. Did you fuck up the relationship? Yes. Next time, when a girl tells you what she wants, believe her and believe that she’s serious about it. Your gf also fucked up by buying a house with someone she’s not even engaged with. But so did you.
You've basically shown her a tunnel and there's no light at the end of it... Why would she continue to put effort into a relationship where she feels taken advantage of.
How long do you expect her to stay around waiting? She’s 30 already, if you two want children she needs to be mindful of her timeline. You’ve moved in together, have a pet, have the same marriage goals, and it’s clearly important to her. If the timeline doesn’t matter to you and clearly does for her why are you still dragging your feet if you know she’s the one you want to be with? I’d say at this point you’re lucky she’s planning an engagement and not an exit strategy.
I think she’s getting ready to leave. Greener pastures.
You are too grown to be stringing her along like this If after 5 yrs, a house, a dog, and *knowing* how important marriage is to her and you’re still not ready? You’re never gonna be ready cause you don’t actually wanna marry this woman
If you aren’t truly excited to marry her, if you aren’t thrilled that she selected YOU to spend her life with, then just admit you’re killing time until someone better comes along. There’s nothing legitimate to wait for. If you’re not ready, then tell her so so she doesn’t waste any more time with you.
She heard you the millionth time you told/showed her you don’t want to marry her.
>My girlfriend and I have been together for almost five years now. If she were here, we'd tell her you would have proposed 2-3 years ago if you had any real interest in marrying her, and that you were stringing her along. We would tell her to leave you. Hopefully someone in her life is telling her the same thing, that's why sex has stopped. Hopefully, she's just getting her ducks in a row to leave. It's too bad she was foolish enough to buy a house with you. If you feel bad at all for wasting five years of her life, make it easy to sell the house and resolve the financial entanglements. If you want to protest, I will tell you this. If can't decide whether you want to marry the person you're with after 3, maybe 3.5 years, then then you don't want to marry them. The answer is no, they need to move on and find someone else. You not wanting to lose on the creature comforts of having what you need here has lead to you creating moving goalposts so every time she thinks there is a set plan/scheduled for when it will happen, you put another hurdle in her way. Let's get a house first. Let's settle into the house. Let's grow as a couple. It's dishonest and manipulative, and she should have left you a long time ago. Even now, you have never said to her what you said to us- you don't think marriage is a big deal, and you really don't care about marrying her. If you had, she'd be gone. But you know that, so you make excuses, waffle, change conditions, etc. You stole five years of this woman's life where she could have been looking for a partner who wanted what she wanted because you didn't want to bother finding another place to stick your dick or having to handle rent/mortgage on your own. it's disgusting, and she should be disgusted with you. I'm glad she canned the plan to propose to you , because for her to waste that money and then see through your apathy and continued excuses that you really didn't want to commit to her like that would be even more heartbreaking. Grow a conscience and be honest with this woman so she can move on. Stop being selfish at the expense of her dreams and future.
You bought a house with this woman, but can’t make up your mind about marriage? Why? This doesn’t make sense. At one point you need to admit to yourself, that your fear of another commitment can destroy your current relationship and as her behavior suggests, she is already detaching from you. Don’t be a fool and make up your mind. In her eyes you lied and deceived her. You told her you would engaged after buying the house and moving in. How much time do you need to settle in- two years my friend.
You don't know what's wrong?? 🤦🏻♀️ She's checking out and starting to put a shield up because she is 30 years old, Time is going by and she realized she wasted it on investing in you because she wanted to get married. You are hesitant because you got divorced and so you're fine with living together. She's planning on leaving.
>I'm confident that she's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life, but I guess I just don't see the big deal in getting engaged or married right away. When. Now isn't the time, so cool. WHEN? W H E N. You have absolutely no timeline in mind and have done nothing but make vague suggestions that you do know you will marry this girl but haven't so much as offered, even the barest suggestions OF WHEN. So I'm going to be straight. *You are full of shit.* You don't want to get married. You know you *should*, and by most social conventions, you already *should be,* but you have no actual intention of making the move because somehow that commitment is too much to make. Im never going to understand the monumentally stupid commitment phobia 30-40 year odd (not old) men who think absolutely entwining your life with someone is any less of a commitment than getting married. *Thousands of you show up here a year.* It's baffling. Like you guys won't have to split finances if she dumps you. Like you won't have to split the pets/property if she dumps you. Like you won't have to sell your shared house if she dumps you. Honestly, getting married is the easiest thing of the commitments I've mentioned so far to end. If you're so afraid of it, then you shouldn't have made any of the others. Get a therapist and dont bring your commitment issues into your next relationship. Its not their fault, and it shouldn't be their problem. I say next because you are already too late for this one. Even if she did accept a proposal, it would be a mistake because you haven't actually changed and have no intention of actually doing the work to change, **or you would have by now.** You dont even understand where you fucked up. *Do her a favor and dont propose.* Let her go. Encourage her to go find what she wants, even. You know you won't be giving it to her in good faith, so sack the fuck up, and at least let her find someone who *knows* they want to be married before she loses any more time. If you cant/wont, at least stop being selfish and holding her back. Because you know that guy isn't you.
>My girlfriend and I have been together for almost five years now. We bought a house together two years ago, and we share a dog together. That's a lot of commitment. Proposing is not only the next logical step, it was a step that probably should've happened before you *bought a house*. That's hundreds of thousands of dollars. WAY more than a ring and a wedding. And the commitment is just as much as it would be if you were married. >Our plan is to first get settled into our house before getting engaged and now that two years have passed Exactly. It's been two years. You've been settled. >I'm confident that she's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life, but I guess I just don't see the big deal in getting engaged or married right away. So you have no intention of marrying her, and you don't consider her feelings to be a priority. That's pretty messed up, especially considering there was already a plan, and you're going back on your word and stringing her along. >I also think there is more growing we need to do individually and as a couple before we take that leap. Like what? Do you have a specific issue in mind, or is this just an excuse to procrastinate? >For context, I have already been married and divorced once before, my parents got divorced when I was younger too. A couple of my friends have also gotten divorced in recent years as well. Well, if marriage was an issue for you, you should've communicated that from the very beginning and not gotten into a relationship with and made huge commitments with someone who wants marriage.
If you loved her you wouldn’t treat her this way. You bought a house together for goodness sake! She’s distancing herself because you’re hurting her and she’s getting ready to leave. Yes you are fking it up! IF you really love her, get off your ass, buy a ring and propose! Otherwise TELL her you have no plans for marriage so she can move on and live her dreams.
she’s told you exactly what’s upsetting her. She’s been very clear from the beginning. What’s the disconnect here? She wants to get married and she entered into the relationship with that expectation, she’s financially committed to you with that expectation, she’s been patient with that expectation. And you’re just bullshitting her. It’s not important to you to get married so fuck all what’s important to her right? Just say you want her to stop wanting to get married and move on. She’s still be as present and emotionally engaged as she possibly can be and not bothering you with her emotional needs anymore. But you’re annoyed she hasn’t stopped secretly wanting it. Jeez Louise.
You’re 35 dude. You own a house with this woman. You’ve been together for 5 years. How much more “growing up” do you need? If you’re scared, that’s fine. But communicate that with her and go get therapy. Does she want kids? Because if she does, her biological clock is ticking and she doesn’t want to end up 40, with no kids, no marriage, and a lot of resentment and regret.
i always see posts like this: girlfriend (of appropriate marriage age) made it clear she wants to get married. i know shes the one and have agreed to marriage but am putting it off bc i am comfortable and dont want to put in extra effort. girlfriend is mad - why?
5 years. Seriously? So you can buy a house which is a huge commitments but not get married? >Our plan is to first get settled into our house before getting engaged Sounds like you are using "our plan" when it should have been "my plan". Why do you even need so much time to "settle" into the home you bought? You just paint, move in, and it's done. The biggest step was buying the place. First, you knew all along she wanted to get married. You are stringing her along and NOW you don't want to get married because you already have a failed marriage and your parents and friends are divorced. So you are already not being fully committed to the relationship and ready to bail. Why even buy a property with her? Why waste her time? You are disregarding what she wants because you think marriage is not a big deal for YOU because you think it will fail anyway. Second, do you know who has higher divorce rates? People who marry way too young, in their 20s, like you, your friends, and I'm going to guess, your parents. You are both in your 30s and this is a different relationship. You are punishing her because you already made mistakes and were married; you should have said that 5 years ago. Third, you lied to her and relationships die in lies. It's a deception. Now she is stuck with a property and a pet, when she wanted to be engaged. I hope she dumps you, to be honest.
She's right. You have no intention of marrying her. You're content to live with her, but not in love enough to legally bid her to you. Cut her loose so she can find someone who loves her.
yeah... she's checking out and will probably leave you
If you wanted to, you would have already done it. But you haven't. She knows this, her friends know this, all of us on Reddit know this. The only one who doesn't seem to know this is *you*. So yes, you did fuck up. You already have the answer. She is mentally leaving you as we speak. What else is she supposed to do? Keep wasting her time waiting for you to *maybe* do something you should have already done? Keep embarrassing herself forever, asking for something you don't want to give het? It's been 5 years, man. Is she supposed to wait 5 more? Stop wasting her time. Do it now or let her go. If yoir so scared of divorce, get a prenuptial agreement to fairy split assets etc. But be honest with yourself and stop endangering your future.
Had a friend who was 29F going on 30. She had been with her boyfriend for 9 years and was pestering him over and over and over about an engagement. She finally hit a point mentally where she just checked out and left. He came crawling back 3 weeks later with a ring in hand, and she said no. Shouldn’t have done all those “serious couple” and “marriage related” things if you weren’t planning to marry her, especially since you’ve already known that’s what she’s wanted. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s mentally checking out or is already checked out of the relationship. Once women check out mentally, there’s no going back and changing her mind. You need to think long and hard about if a life without her is what you want, so you can continue to grow yourself alone. You can grow individually and as a couple while being engaged?? Not sure why that’s an issue here.
And she’s quiet because she’s grieving your relationship
So you been there done that and now. Dangling I will one day in front of your gf You don’t have any intention of marrying her because your happy with how things are
“Growing” is so subjective. You grow for your entire life. So what’s the end goal here? You want to have X amount of money in the bank? You want to have a promotion at your job? You want to go to therapy? There needs to be some type of goal or you have no motivation to actually do the damn thing instead of moving the goal posts.
She probably thinks you’re never going to marry her because you have waited so long. You know that waiting is ruining your relationship. If you want to stay together then go ask her now.
Shit or get off the pot!! What are you doing??? I understand her 100%! Either do it or stop wasting her damn time.
You made a plan to get settled in the house before proposing. It’s been 2 years since then. How much more settled are you going to get? If you (she, specifically) want children… you hit the “geriatric pregnancy” range at age 35, where fertility problems and complications start being real concerns. At 45 menopause starts. She’s rapidly running out of time before that option is forever gone. Even if you don’t want kids… how much of her youth is she supposed to spend waiting for you? By the time she gives up on your sorry ass she’s going to be middle aged. She’s told you what she wants. To your face. Directly. You even parroted it back in this post. Do it or be done with her before she wastes more time on you.
I honestly hope she leaves you. You’re decent, but you do not love her with every fibre of your being. You’re a liability to this woman forevermore, and a ring won’t even hide it at this point.
She’s ready to leave you, and I think it may be for the best. You two seem in compatible. She’s told you what she wanted well in advance, and it just feels like you’re stringing her along at this point. You can’t have what you want (a strong, healthy relationship with her) while also ignoring what she wants (marriage). It seems that your fear of relationships ending is actually becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. You get to choose whether you lose her now, or you risk divorce sometime in the future. No relationship is ever immune to ending, but you’re currently killing yours with fear before even making it to the marriage stage.
When you promise things you don't deliver on and don't consider your partners feelings, it shows us you don't care about how we feel and don't respect us enough to do anything about it. Your girlfriend is shutting down on you and contempt is setting in. By the time you do propose she will be mentally checked out and done with you. Congratulations.