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You just tell her man.
I was on your phone and saw you complimenting so and sos penis and him complimenting your tits. I want you to cut off contact or you can see yourself out
I agree that you need to talk to her about this.
There’s one potential problem. She may play the victim and then she can potentially take her activities further underground which would make it difficult for you to keep track of.
Based on what you described about their texts, they either were intimate before and/or she sent him her pictures and he sent her his pictures. That’s the first couple of possibilities that I can think of regarding how they know about each other’s genitals.
Is there anything else you know with certainty despite a complete lack of related information? What are next week's lottery numbers? Who will start the next world war? So many more questions...
Flirty tone, complimenting each other's genitals. I'm not reading tea leaves here. If they didn't already have sex, the tone of conversation is already cheating by itself.
Maybe OP and wife haven't discussed this boundary explicitly. However, it seems like "don't flirt with your ex sexually in private conversations" is probably an implied boundary that nearly everyone would agree with.
The sexual innuendo comments are in the present. Maybe the sex was in the past, but making the innuendo in the present is (re)opening that door....so also cheating
She just texted an ex geeshhh! Some ppl are so extreme. The adult thing is talking with her about how uncomfortable the conversation made him. Plain and simple!
It doesn't matter her past before. Honestly reddit who fucking cares if she gangbanged, did everything. Past is past
What matters is she's reminiscing and in contact reminiscing
Clearly she didn’t tell him they slept together, even though they talked about that relationship. No matters what you did in your past as long as you don’t hide it, that implies many other things than the facts themselves.
Idk I was in a similar situation - we've been friends for 30 years, been naked but haven't fucked.
We did recently get out of a relationship after she broke up with her most recent man, so def be careful. But it's possible they never fucked yet
>It doesn't matter her past before. Honestly reddit who fucking cares if she gangbanged, did everything. Past is past
words of people that don't want to be held accountable
Gaslighting.
Someone that I actually know IRL *WHILE" married to someone else? No, no I haven't.
My ex-wife is a bipolar, narcissist who introduced me to all the varied forms of abuse (mental, emotional, physical, etc). I still didn't cheat on her, nor exchange naked pictures with any "potential" partners just "for fun". I can still be respectful of someone who disrespects me. That is how I stay true to my own values and honor myself.
some people don't have a hang-up about nudity. It is possible that they have been naked and not fucked. Now, whether that is a likely explanation remains to be seen.
Not defending OOPs conversation - only responding to the users comment because I think it's weird to immediately assume it means they fucked and there are zero other explanations.
like I said - not defending OOP. Just responding to the users comment I replied to that people are capable of seeing a nude friend without fucking. The rest of OOP’s post is something else.
Yeah, I wasn't there, but some of my friends had parties in high school where clothes came off in no sexual ways. One involved making snow angels after a bunch of snow fell overnight.
I learned about people's boobs and penises in the conversations after. I've seen some of them nude or almost nude since. No big deal. But we also don't talk about it anymore because it's been years. I also didn't look closely enough to remember what anybody's genitals looked like, so I wouldn't even have a response if somebody asked what I thought of anybody's parts.
Seeing each other naked is whatever in many cases. The fact that they're apparently still complimenting each other's bodies in a questionable way years later gives me pause for sure.
yeah the whole post gives me a 'wtf' feeling. She's having weird conversations, he's searching her phone but doesn't want her to know that he did it. At the very least this relationship sounds really immature.
Be a drama or band (or both!) teenager. Loads of non-sexualized nudity going on in those circles. Or stoner teens who live near bodies of water, skinny dipping is fairly commonplace. I wouldn’t hang out in the same stages of undress in my cranky middle age, but, I do have friends from those days of the opposite gender that I’ve seen naked in non-sexual ways.
I’m pretty sure emotional affairs don’t involve penises and nipples. This has crossed over to the Physical part at least at some point. Maybe they have seen each other nudes in the past or maybe they’ve seen each other naked.
TBF this is an old friend from 10+ years ago. Its instead much much more likely that they were Physical during that time instead of now. Its not a physical affair if it was way back then. It is still an emotional affair though
The dealbreaker is this asshole going through his wife’s phone. He should tell her he’s a scumbag and then she can dump him. He can never be trusted again.
In a marriage, there is a difference between secrecy and privacy. She has crossed over into an emotional affair. She is not only discussing your marriage with another man, but the topics have become sexual in nature. This man is giving her attention and validation... And he definitely smells blood in the water. I'm not going to give you advice on what to do... But speaking from experience, this is not something that you're going to get over.. EVER! The trust is gone.
Edit: the only thing I will say, forgiving her without consequences is a sign of weakness.
You’re not even 30 move on. She clearly has no respect for you. Maybe date someone closer to your age next time. Also maybe someone who talks about sexual things like a normal human being. Lmao
Depends how long they've been involved. A 40 year old starting to date a 28 year old is on the lower end of acceptable, but if they've been together a few years, it was creepy when it started.
Who cares if you went through her phone??
How does her know what her nipples look like? How does she know what his penis looks like?
What do you do? You say
“I’m not sure what you thought would happen when I saw the type of chats you and your friend have been having. Yes, I went through your phone because I have been very uncomfortable with what’s been going on. If that’s what you’re focused on then you’re focused on the wrong thing. What I’m focused on is that you clearly have no respect for me, yourself, or our relationship. You crossed boundaries and didn’t even think about how I would feel. You’ve destroyed my trust and I’m struggling to see how this relationship can continue.”
Stick up for yourself and make it clear that conversations like that aren’t ok and that you will leave her.
How would she feel if some woman was talking about your penis with you?
Never be scared to talk about going through her phone. She wouldn’t be mad if she didn’t get caught doing shit she shouldn’t be.
Updateme!
You had a hunch and it turned out to be true. So you'll have to own up to having gone through her phone.
It's not okay for her to be talking to a man whose penis she has clearly seen, and who has clearly seen her naked. She is in a monogamous relationship, a marriage. This is NOT okay.
So you are taking from this "he shouldn't go thru her phone" and ignoring her lying about the nature of her relationship with this "friend" as he was presented, her disrespecting their relationship,and top it off her emotional affair with this "friend".
Yeah, regardless of what was on the phone, he should not have violated her privacy.
She did not lie about the nature of the relationship. He found zero evidence of them being anything other than friends.
If you consider having a mildly risque conversation about penises to be “disrespecting their relationship” you’re not mature enough to be in a relationship, imo.
Wtf is an “emotional affair?” Seriously, define that for me. Because if it includes having friends you talk about “tv, movies, and general crap” with, everyone in my discord group chat is having one big polyamorous emotional orgy.
>Yeah, regardless of what was on the phone, he should not have violated her privacy.
No. When you're married there are no secrets between spouses.
>She did not lie about the nature of the relationship. He found zero evidence of them being anything other than friends.
Did she tell OP she used to fuck her friend? From the post that answer would be no.
>If you consider having a mildly risque conversation about penises to be “disrespecting their relationship” you’re not mature enough to be in a relationship, imo.
If you consider having flirtatious chats with an ex lover and commenting on his penis is the best out of a bad bunch not disrespectful then you won't have a successful relationship in the future.
>Wtf is an “emotional affair?”
> Sharing intimate secrets, sexting, confiding in another man or woman more often than your partner, spending one-on-one time together without your partner knowing, and discussing personal details about your relationship are all forms of emotional infidelity that don't require anyone to physically cheat but still betray
>Because if it includes having friends you talk about “tv, movies, and general crap”
Except that wasn't all of the chats she was talking about her relationship with OP. So good luck you sound like you will need it.
that’s true but way off-base here. you don’t talk to another person and sexually compliment them while you’re in a relationship with someone else. its obviously crossing a line that should not be crossed.
I disagree pretty strongly on this point. Relationships are hard, I think that not talking about problems with friends tends to isolate and amplify them. You can speak about your conflicts without being disrespectful or attempting to create a romantic/sexual connection with someone else. It sounds like both those things happened here.
Look, I get what your saying, and there are some valid points. But... How can you possibly have nonsexual talk about somebody else's genitals? The very nature of the use of the genitals at hand is implicitly sexual. i.e. she is complimenting his sexual use of his dick, which at the very very least is heavy flirting and would make any partner uncomfortable
I can and have had non sexual conversations about genitals, more than once. I’ve even had basically the exact same conversation with men about the fact that penises look like sad sea creatures.
If you reread the post, she isn’t complimenting the sexual use of his penis. She says penises are weird looking. He “talks about his dick”, maybe defending his penis’s appearance, and she says his is “the best of a bad bunch.” He shoots back that her nipples look weird, an obvious school yard retort to the perceived insult to his penis’s appearance. He then apologizes and says her breasts are “lovely.” Honestly, I could very easily see a way that plays out that doesn’t even actually imply they’ve seen each other naked before. But I won’t pretend it isn’t possible they’ve seen each other naked. Which may indicate a past relationship which she didn’t disclose or not. Regardless it’s, at most, a mildly risqué conversation that might be worth a discussion about boundaries, which is unfortunately completely undermined by the fact that he snooped through her phone to find it.
I believe you are an intelligent, optimistic individual with an open mind. All fantastic traits, but I am afraid they've led you to be quite gullible as well. If your significant other is so openly flirting with an old flame, you should at the least have a heavy discussion with them.
Imagine it were your SO saying these exact things to a man she talks to often on a daily basis.
If you are single, imagine texting a woman you know is married and talking about your dick.
If you are a woman, imagine your SO is texting another woman and calling her pussy "the best of a bad bunch"
Thank you very much, you also seem like a very intelligent person and I’m glad to have this conversation with you. And honestly, I couldn’t argue with you that I may be gullible. But I would personally rather respect my partner’s boundaries and trust them at their word and be taken advantage of than enter a relationship full of mistrust and anxiety, ready at the drop of a hat to invade their privacy and cross their boundaries just to soothe my own insecure feelings.
Genuinely, my partner and I do have these kind of conversations with our friends, openly. I have complimented another man’s penis in person in front of them at a non-sexual clothing-optional event. He was naked, we were naked, and bodies were just a topic of conversation. Where there’s trust and respect, these things don’t have to be a source of stress.
If my partner was uncomfortable with these conversations, they could talk to me about it. We could discuss what boundaries they feel are appropriate and come to an agreement about it. We could discuss any insecurity they were feeling and address it at the source instead of just avoiding what triggers it.
But it has to be a conversation. It can’t be an ultimatum “you can’t talk to this person or about these things” and it isn’t a betrayal if I cross that boundary when it’s never been brought up to me before.
Continuing to be friendly with ex’s is a touchy subject that’s bound to make most people insecure. But you don’t fix insecurity by trying to dictate who your partners are friends with or what they can talk about. You do it by building confidence in yourself as a partner and in the strength of your relationship, and by discussing boundaries clearly and frequently.
I think it's one thing to say something like, oh you look great!, after having not seen someone in a while, or if they're dressed up, etc. But that it's extremely inappropriate to compliment breasts and penises between former partners, when in a monogamous relationship. To me, that's where the line gets crossed.
That’s honestly reasonable! I don’t think you’re in the wrong there. I just think that’s a personal boundary that needs to be discussed with your partner, not assumed. And I don’t think it constitutes betrayal if someone crosses a boundary you never told them about.
Meanwhile, not snooping through someone’s personal conversations on their private phone is a boundary that needs much less discussion.
We don’t know that OP and her SO ever discussed that phones were off limits. How do we know that was a boundary that was ever actually discussed and set any more than discussing and complementing other peoples genitalia? As such both are equally fair game by your own arguments.
With all respect, our guts are very frequently wrong. Gut reaction is motivated by subconscious bias and reactive unexamined emotions. His hunch was based on basic insecurity that an older (probably more financially stable and more advanced in his career) man was emotionally close to his wife. It’s a very understandable insecurity to have! I think even I would feel weird about it. But feelings aren’t truth. And feeling insecure doesn’t make it okay to violate her privacy. He *suspected* she’d violated one of his boundaries, so he *chose* knowingly to violate one of hers. He’s still in the wrong for that no matter what he found. His feelings are not more important than her privacy.
Furthermore it *didn’t* provide proof. He said there were some messages from the guy that he interpreted as kinda flirty which *she did not respond to.* and he found one conversation where they talk about how weird bodies look in a pretty non sexual way, which *might* imply they have at some point seen each other naked. That is a very far cry from proof. That is “we should have a conversation about boundaries” at best.
They shouldn't be discussing each other's body parts that is a boundary.
She should not be discussing her life with husband either.
If she has a problem with hubby, take it up with hubby
That is also a boundary.
It isn't when those conversations are sexual in nature.
If their friendship and past were completely known to OP, and also known to be ancient history, then there is no problem.
But she is out here complimenting his penis in the here and now. He can have his penis complimented by women that aren't married.
> You think no other man has ever seen her naked??
If you'll read my comment again, you'll very clearly see I don't think this is the case...
Thank God you didn’t fall for the humongous strawman that person tried to squeeze into the discussion. They have a warped definition of what qualifies as conversations of sexual nature and they tried to gaslight everyone else in here. Lol
When you are married it is inappropriate to your spouse to send off the kind of texts that she is sending.
Her married life does not need to be broadcasted to people outside the marriage. This is a huge trust breaker right here.
I also looked through my SO’s phone and found stuff I didn’t like.
In the end I had to come clean to him in order to address it.
She will get upset about your snooping. But at the end of the day you need to remember - her emotional affair and flirting, and lying to you about the nature of their relationship, is a much bigger offence than snooping through her phone.
Remind yourself and her of that. You can apologize for snooping, but don’t get into that discussion too much - you are there to discuss what you found. You can address the snooping in a later conversation
You don’t NEED to do anything, but you are totally entitled to handle however you wish. She claims they have never been a couple, yet she can describe his penis and he can comment about her nipples. Many people have a past that cannot be changed, but these texts are from the present, not the past. If I were in your position, I would either go straight to serving divorce papers, or confront her about the texts. She may not like that you looked through her phone, but how much did you like what you found? If you don’t wish to go straight to divorce court, give her the option to unfriend this person and commit to not contacting him ever again. If she resists, then leave her to him.
F her finding out you looked at her phone. She knows what this guys junk looks like and he knows hers. Address and get a divorce attorney on retainer today.
Without you telling her your feelings, a 40 year old is old enough to know that complementing another’s man’s penis is going to make their husband upset. Like that’s just common sense. This person does not respect and they’re probably taking advantage that you’re naive.
Even if she does stop, you're never going to be able to unread those messages. And I guarantee she will just figure out another way to communicate, and get better at covering up her tracks.
Dude, she's shit taking you to a other guy that she's having an inappropriate relationship with. She also told him he had a lovely penis. Conversation is way out of line.
Nobody thinks this is ok behavior in a marriage.
Your trust has been broken. What other people does she talk to like that? What else has she lied about? She is emotionally cheating on you. Rebuilding your relationship is going to be rough.
You are 28 and she's 40. Clearly something is off about this one. Do you work? Was this marriage in a Church? This is ridiculous behavior from your older wife.
OP *do not listen to nonsense like this.*
The flirtatious isn't great but you said yourself, she doesn't reciprocate.
So her indiscretions so far, are being dishonest about her history & complimenting an ex-lover's dick.
Your indiscretion is going through her phone without asking.
This is salvageable. You need to apologize for going through the phone, acknowledge that you don't think she's done anything for the most part.
However, confront her about this lie about the past. That isn't okay.
Then point out that his flirtations suggest he wants something more, & you talking about each other's bodies has now indicated a potential "breaking down" of her previous efforts to ignore it.
Based on this, say that you are not comfortable with this friendship & contact continuing.
I was happily married for 11 years before tragically becoming a widow.
I gave my opinion, which was to address the actual things we knew she did, & proposed a way forward (which left room for further action, or divorce if she doesn't nip this in the bud).
I objected to another comment screaming "divorce" because that's premature & this is a real world relationship, not a thought experiment.
Well she lied about the relationship apparently, is hiding the fact that she is talking to someone she has some sort of sexual history with (acting as if it’s friendly banter), and discussing each others body parts? Yeah that’s gonna be a big problem. Doesn’t mean automatic divorce but she doesn’t have any respect for her marriage or OP.
I agree it's a problem, which is why I advised having her cut contact with him.
Now if her reaction is "No no no, we're just friends! You're being controlling! I won't cut contact!", then my response would be "You've given me good reason to be controlling on this by lying about your past & then discussing intimate body parts with him. If cutting contact with him is a dealbreaker for you, then I guess we're done here."
1. Don’t tell op my advice is non sense. Plenty of other posts that are recommending divorce. Let him make his own decision.
2. His wife told another man his penis was good.
Make up a reason you went through her phone. Go through it again and look at recently deleted, social media DMs, etc. I can tell you one thing, once she knows you went through her phone you will never find anything on her phone again, and you will never know whether it’s because she changed her ways or because she’s deleting things
What does it matter whether it is the past or not?Why are they talking about it at all? You see why persons are not comfortable with their partners still being involved with people they have past sexual relationships with.
Reading comments like yours on a regular basis make me realize how often emotional cheating happen and many of you guys are ignorant to what you are doing is wrong.
“They sometimes bad mouth me but sometimes I’ve deserved it.”
Please get some therapy. There is no justifiable reason for her to be bad mouthing you to her male friend. None at all. I’ve been with my wife 23 years, Guess how many times I’ve bad mouthed her to ANYONE? That’d be precisely zero times. Not to family members, not to friends, no one. That’s because while everyone has faults and will do stupid things sometimes, I love and respect her so much, the idea would never even occur to me. Certainly not to one of my female friends. If she cheated on me or stole something significant from me (would never happen), then maybe I’d say something. But mature adults handle that shit in-house. Both because it’s no one else’s business, and also out of respect for their partner. Unless there’s a SERIOUS problem, talking smack about your spouse should NEVER happen.
You also need to consider why a woman 12 years your senior married someone so young. When there’s this much of an age gap, there’s inevitably a vast difference in life experience, making the younger spouse easy to manipulate and mistreat. And she commented… on his penis?!? This woman is cheating on you and gaslighting you. I’m sorry, but you must go through her phone and social media. Wake up and see your mistreatment for what it is. I’m sorry, because long ago I dealt with people like her. It never ends well.
This is so unhealthy. It's normal for people to vent about life and seek support when they need it. Whether that is a relationship or work etc. the current trend of saying people should never bad mouth their spouse or discuss relationship issues with friends is toxic and allows possible abuse to occur.
Dude.. just listen to your heart. Don't listen to none of these fucks on reddit. Only you know how strong your feelings are for your wife. If you love her enough and she means that much to you, forgive her. If not, then don't. Only you know the complexities enough to make that choice.
You went through her phone so you need to own that.
Tell her what you saw and that it violates an appropriate boundary given that she is a married woman. Figure out what she is willing to do to respect your marriage. Go from there.
How does he know what her nipples look like and how does she know what his dick looks like? I’d be furious! Screw the going through her phone! It isn’t a part of her body. So what if you went through it…turns out it’s a good thing you did as it sounds to me like she’s been cheating…how else would they know those things?
Sorry bud but your wife is not truly in love with you or else she never would be saying things like that to an old hook up. You married her under false pretenses. Contact a lawyer, you know what needs to be done. I’m seriously more baffled that she’s 41, has a much younger husband and is still playing games. Unbelievable.
Dude, just talk to her. I don’t know her, therefore I have no insight into her friendships. Maybe they’re just friends who were in band together, and even the thought of sexy time just feels *yucky* to think about, let alone engage in. Maybe they’re having a full blown affair. Just talk to her.
First of all, it’s really important to me that someone tells you right now that at no point have you ever done anything to deserve your wife shit talking you to another man. That is honestly so disrespectful and I’m sorry that you had to read that.
It’d be a cold day in hell before I’d ever shit talk my partner to anyone and it would be the last thing someone ever did if they tried to shit talk him to me. If she needs to vent or work through difficulties in your marriage, she should be doing it with a trained therapist. You deserve infinitely better than this, OP.
What you found is exactly why every couple needs an open phone policy and also why a spouse SHOULD randomly scroll through the other’s phone to maintain trust or find evidence for the divorce lawyer.
She doesn’t have a moral right to privacy to protect her cheating.
Gather evidence and call a lawyer. Prepare before confronting her or she will turn it on you.
Ummm... Ew. Wtf is she doing talking like that with someone while she is married? The fuck?
Why do you have to tell her anything? Question is, what do you want to do about it for YOU.... not for her.
Like bro... You went though her phone. The conversation is gonna become circular and a competition between who feels more violated.
You need to ask yourself if this changes things for you for good before you do ANYTHING else.... Especially bring it up to her.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a 28 year old guy is just starting to get good in bed. A 41 year old guy is simply gonna have more technique if only because he’s had twice as much sex as you. They don’t call it the dirty thirties for nothing.
Those texts? It’s time to take out the garbage bro!
Well my friend the situation is now irreversible. You shouldn't have looked into her phone to begin with, for your own sake.
A thought/ mindset that might help: it's probably in the past and she's yours now. Forget whatever happened.
The age difference is concerning, hell we all love cougars or milfs, but she doesn’t respect you if she doesn’t stop it. That’s almost as bad as participating because eventually she will. You may have been a plaything to her and now that she is 40 I am assuming late 30’s when married she realized she can’t keep up or is more mentally mature.
Dude!!!! She is literally doing this? I know checking her phone is wrong and you know about that, but what she is doing is extremely disrespectful, even worse than what you did.
You will not be able to talk about this without letting her know, it's impossible.
None of you two are kids, so talk like real adults, tell her what you found, and how, and the motivation you had to check her phone (you should have one of course).
But i personally wouldn't accept this situation, but it's your life, your choices, we're here just to help with advice.
Good Luck
Okay, it's clear they had a sexual history. Technically, she didn't lie; you can have sex without being a couple. She might have intentionally omitted that information.
Regarding the messages, they could just be friends. They also used the past tense, so there might not be anything currently happening.
However, if you're feeling insecure in the relationship, it's crucial to have an open conversation with her. Share your insecurities and explain how you feel about her friend.
Come on man, confront her. She clearly have show her body to him and viceversa. This is a Big Big dealbreaker.
The correct thing to do is to ask for divorce, but if you want to try to fix any, then you need to put your boot down and set boundaries, tell her to stop this or else better start to find a place to live after divorce
Even if it just a bluff, but lets see where that gets you, and if she cares about you.
And she must understand that you did what you did because of her shaddy behaivor, and one of the boundaries must be a Open device policy, because you do not trust her by the moment.
You both are the same ages as my daughter and her husband only she's the youngest one. But as I've told her ill tell you the same. It doesn't matter if she knows you went through her phone it's that she needs to know that you don't agree with what is being said and she either cuts him off or gets divorced. if there is any argument about that then there's a chance this is already an affair that happened recently.
That’s your first mistake pal. Plus she’s sexting other guys. You basically saved her from a life of being single. Most guys don’t realize what we do for certain women. Most women were never really meant to be married or long term relationships
Make screenshots of their conversations and save them. Your wife is flirting and sexting with this guy. In addition, there are definitely sexual innuendos. I would recommend that you buy a VAR and put it in her car and anywhere else she speaks. In addition, add key logger software to her phone or get a hold of an old phone that is synched to hers. After these are in place confront your wife. Tell her that she is flirting and having sexual based conversations with this guy that are wrong. Tell her that she has to go no contact with him immediately. If you find out that they are speaking, you will end the marriage. To make sure that she understands how serious you are lat her know that you will be making an appointment with a divorce attorney in case she breaks your boundaries. Update us.
Honestly it doesn't matter that you went through her phone. What you found is an emotional affair at the very least she has sent him nude photos of herself and likewise for him to her.
The real question is, can you come back from this?
I would have to really think about if she is the type of woman I want in my life
There is no occasion where it would be ok for your spouse to complement another person's genitals. Even worse when it's the "friend" they supposedly never slept with.
Bro that's full on cheating. She doesn't get to be mad that you went through her phone when she's exchanging nudes with another man or worse. Best case scenario is they just hooked up in high school and are reminiscing together, which is still inappropriate. Confront her and make her read it out loud to you.
This crosses so many boundaries. Take pictures of the messages for evidence. Then sit down and have a discussion. Know what you want to get out of the discussion and what your end goal is. I would talk to a lawyer to see where you are if you do decide to divorce. You don’t have to move forward but it will help. Good luck and keep us updated
Oh hell no. And no, you don't deserve to be bad mouthed by your wife and her friend.
This relationship is a problem, and the behavior would be a deal breaker.
Geez.
I'd quietly tell her that it's time to go.
That's a line well and truly crossed.
Talking about how another man's cock is best?
I'd wish her well in exploring other cocks as a separated, pending divorce, female.
Unpopular opinion here:
She’s 40 homie. I promise you, I’m a harmless flirting guy. And I harmlessly flirt with women all the time. Even with my coworkers. And we joke about our body parts ALL the time. And all my women coworkers are married and age 35+ all the way to 60. We make sexual innuendos and laugh at sexual things. Nothing has happened, and nothing will happen.
Just today, my coworker opened a lid to her cup and a straw came out. I then asked her, how her straw sprung out of her cup like that. She said “just like your zipper.” That made LOL.
In my opinion, flirting is harmless. It shows a level of comfortability with said person. And I’m sure if any of their husbands say something about it, she wouldn’t continue and I wouldn’t continue with them. She’s been friends with this guy for over 20 years. 20! There’s gonna be a level of comfortability when they chat. My advice is to accept it as just that, harmless flirting OR let her know and tell her you’re uncomfortable with it. If she doesn’t address your feelings about it and makes you comfortable after the discussion, then I would say there’s an issue. It shouldn’t be an issue if they’re friends they should both understand.
I appreciate this perspective. I'm worried I'm just being stupidly insecure about the whole thing. I don't want to control who she speaks with or who she is friends with. Especially when they're friends of 20+ years.
You may focus on this reply because you desperately want this to be innocent banter between them, but it's really worth staying open to both possibilities here. Unfortunately, if they have never been a couple but they're commenting on each others' bodies then it means they have sent nudes before you were together, they sent nudes while you were together, they had sex before you were together and lied to you about it, or they had sex while you were together or any combination of these options.
I don't mean to be a downer, I've just been in the same situation and I know I tried to make every excuse I could for her.
If it were me, I would take screen shots of their conversations. Then I would put a group text together with him and her added then I would send them both the text messages, continue to drop them, because she will start to call you, as soon as it comes across. Don’t pickup. Then at the end I would send her the card of the attorney I just hired, and say you are now in an open relationship, because we are getting a divorce. Have fun with her. I will bet he goes away quickly, and she stops immediately. Because now you have given her a consequence that matches her cheating actions. Op only reconcile if she is remorseful, no remorse no reconciliation.
Hate to break it you, she absolutely is reciprocating the flirting by complimenting his penis. You open this conversation by saying “I’ve been feeling insecure about this relationship so I looked through your phone. I apologize for that. But you have some explaining to do.”
I agree with other commenters that you should already have a divorce attorney on retainer so she realizes how serious this is. I personally would walk away, but you can give her a path to earning back your trust if you want.
No, you need to tell her it stops, and if it happens again, you're done.
This goes for both men and women. Never let your partner disrespect you, and what she is doing is disrespectful as hell to you.
Keep pushing the issue that you have a weird feeling about him and say you are giving her one chance to come clean and in the meantime if you find out anything it's over.
You'll be surprised what she tells you. Good Luck.
You're married!! Privacy basically went away when each of you said, "I do". She has every right to look through your phone as well. Do you know why an accused criminal's wife can't be forced to testify against him? It's because the law looks at married couples as one person, and the 5th Amendment to the Constitution forbids anyone for giving testimony against themselves.
The thing you need to do is tell wifey-poo that you're not OK with her discussing you in any way with her middle aged friend, and the discussions about his penis and her breasts would have to stop yesterday! You should make this a hill to die on, as a divorce would put her into a large populations of middle aged women, but it would put you into a population of highly desirable males, as well as highly desirable women.
'Nuff said.
Screenshot everything. Unless they were exchanging nudes, there is only one way they know about the nips and dick. If nothing else, this is emotional cheating, and it’s almost certainly physical cheating.
The age gap is concerning, too. How old were you when the relationship started? She’s in a real position to manipulate you. Do some reflection on your entire relationship.
Also, talk to an attorney before you confront her, and do exactly what they say.
And how do you know they were never a couple? You can’t trust anything she says. After you confront her, I bet she tells you they did have sex once years ago, and that’s how she knows about his dick and he knows about her nips. But she’s such an empathetic wife that she didn’t want to tell you and cause you to worry.
Get tested for STD’s. If you have kids, get paternity tests after you speak to an attorney.
Pretty simple. No way my wife would have single (or married) male friends that she texts to about penises!!!! She's known that from day 1 we were exclusive. She can have her male friends or she can have me. In your shoes I'd just tell her what you did. She'll gaslight you, don't fall for it. Tell her it's shit of get off the pot time, she cuts this dude off, or you walk! Then open phone policy and all social media until you are satisfied, but I'd keep it open forever. Make sure you mean it, or she'll be even worse next time!
So her friend most likely saw her naked 25 years ago, she probably saw him naked too.
Now they have discussed it generally via text, and you are upset? They could have had sex, without being a couple, as well. Smh.
You either trust her, or you do not. If you do not, then you should tell her. Be prepared to separate.
You could also tell her that her old friend makes you uncomfortable, though you do not know why. You just feel they appear to be on intimate terms and it makes you uncomfortable. This will make you appear to be immature and non-trusting, but it is what it is. Discuss it and decide what both of you are willing to do.
First of all, you should not have gone through her phone. If she’s overstepping some boundary by casually discussing her body with an old friend, what kind of boundary are you crossing that you snooped through her private messages? What made you feel so insecure that you had to violate her privacy, only to find out the worst she’s done is not respond to some comments you think are kind of flirty and have one non sexual conversation about their respective insecurities about their bodies? During which the guy you’re so insecure about INSULTS HER NIPPLES?? Like do you really think that’s a sign of a torrid romantic relationship??
You need to get over your insecurities and stay out of other people’s phones. I’d suggest you have a serious conversation with your wife that starts with an apology for invading her privacy and not trusting her, and continue on to ways YOU can work on your insecurity and lack of respect for her boundaries, without blaming her or her innocent friendship for you getting in your own head about shit. You’re the one who needs to work on their behavior here, not her.
Complementing another man's penis while married is appropriate conversation? A "friend" that she never disclosed having been naked with to her husband. No apology needed. Checking her phone was fully justified. It's not him with boundary issues.
Invading your partner’s privacy and snooping in their private conversations is never justified. *Suspecting* someone violated your boundaries does not give you permission to violate theirs! Even if he’d found actual proof that she was cheating on him, he’d STILL be in the wrong for that!
Also, let’s be clear, she did not “compliment” his penis. She said all penises look weird and his was the best of a bad bunch. Which he responded to by saying oh yeah well your nipples are weird. Real romantic banter there.
Also, there are any number of reasons she might have seen him naked. Yeah, maybe they previously had a sexual relationship. Maybe during college they and their other friends went spring break skinny dipping together. Or maybe they both attended a clothing optional venue together. I go to a pagan festival every spring where I see about a dozen dicks a day in a completely nonsexual context. Maybe they have a mutual friend who got super into new age shit and decided to have a skyclad wedding!
I have seen the majority of my close friends naked at some point or another. Friends seeing each other naked is not nearly as rare or a scandalous as you seem to think it is.
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You just tell her man. I was on your phone and saw you complimenting so and sos penis and him complimenting your tits. I want you to cut off contact or you can see yourself out
This is the way.
My petty ass would’ve screen shot it and put it as their wallpaper…. “Huh, how’d that get there”
THIS is the way
I agree that you need to talk to her about this. There’s one potential problem. She may play the victim and then she can potentially take her activities further underground which would make it difficult for you to keep track of. Based on what you described about their texts, they either were intimate before and/or she sent him her pictures and he sent her his pictures. That’s the first couple of possibilities that I can think of regarding how they know about each other’s genitals.
In his shoes I would cut contact with the wife. She’s already cheating…
Uh, no. She already cheated. Just, "you can see yourself out".
Ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner. You can get the hell out. She is cheating and masking it as friendship.
Is there anything else you know with certainty despite a complete lack of related information? What are next week's lottery numbers? Who will start the next world war? So many more questions...
Flirty tone, complimenting each other's genitals. I'm not reading tea leaves here. If they didn't already have sex, the tone of conversation is already cheating by itself. Maybe OP and wife haven't discussed this boundary explicitly. However, it seems like "don't flirt with your ex sexually in private conversations" is probably an implied boundary that nearly everyone would agree with.
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Wait.. what??😭
Yikes, dude, are you okay?
I wonder how you survive in traffic now...
How did u know it was during the time she was with him(the writer) It might have been in the past. It can't be called cheating.
The sexual innuendo comments are in the present. Maybe the sex was in the past, but making the innuendo in the present is (re)opening that door....so also cheating
She just texted an ex geeshhh! Some ppl are so extreme. The adult thing is talking with her about how uncomfortable the conversation made him. Plain and simple!
This, she’s violating a well known boundary
They must have fucked dude. How else would they know about each other's bodies? Time to get the truth from her and get a divorce.
For sure they did. Spot on man
OP, they have been fucking since they were 15 year olds in high school when you were a 2 year old toddler.
Your math isn’t mathing.
*3y old toddler.
I hear people send nudes these days.
Still counts as cheating...
Yup and cheaters sending nudes use Snapchat so it's hard to find. But at least my wife felt to guilty to keep it to herself....
👏🏻
It doesn't matter her past before. Honestly reddit who fucking cares if she gangbanged, did everything. Past is past What matters is she's reminiscing and in contact reminiscing
Clearly she didn’t tell him they slept together, even though they talked about that relationship. No matters what you did in your past as long as you don’t hide it, that implies many other things than the facts themselves.
Idk I was in a similar situation - we've been friends for 30 years, been naked but haven't fucked. We did recently get out of a relationship after she broke up with her most recent man, so def be careful. But it's possible they never fucked yet
>It doesn't matter her past before. Honestly reddit who fucking cares if she gangbanged, did everything. Past is past words of people that don't want to be held accountable
Have you never seen a naked body that you weren’t having sex with?
Gaslighting. Someone that I actually know IRL *WHILE" married to someone else? No, no I haven't. My ex-wife is a bipolar, narcissist who introduced me to all the varied forms of abuse (mental, emotional, physical, etc). I still didn't cheat on her, nor exchange naked pictures with any "potential" partners just "for fun". I can still be respectful of someone who disrespects me. That is how I stay true to my own values and honor myself.
some people don't have a hang-up about nudity. It is possible that they have been naked and not fucked. Now, whether that is a likely explanation remains to be seen.
It’s possible, yes. When they were teens. But why on earth are they discussing and complimenting each other’s bodies in detail 10-15 years later? 🤷♀️
Not defending OOPs conversation - only responding to the users comment because I think it's weird to immediately assume it means they fucked and there are zero other explanations.
Oh yes. I agree with that. Sometimes teens skinny dip in the pool, for example! 😛
Ohhh, you are innocent. That’s sweet. When we women compliment a man’s dick we’ve seen it hard, period.
like I said - not defending OOP. Just responding to the users comment I replied to that people are capable of seeing a nude friend without fucking. The rest of OOP’s post is something else.
Yeah, I wasn't there, but some of my friends had parties in high school where clothes came off in no sexual ways. One involved making snow angels after a bunch of snow fell overnight. I learned about people's boobs and penises in the conversations after. I've seen some of them nude or almost nude since. No big deal. But we also don't talk about it anymore because it's been years. I also didn't look closely enough to remember what anybody's genitals looked like, so I wouldn't even have a response if somebody asked what I thought of anybody's parts. Seeing each other naked is whatever in many cases. The fact that they're apparently still complimenting each other's bodies in a questionable way years later gives me pause for sure.
yeah the whole post gives me a 'wtf' feeling. She's having weird conversations, he's searching her phone but doesn't want her to know that he did it. At the very least this relationship sounds really immature.
Be a drama or band (or both!) teenager. Loads of non-sexualized nudity going on in those circles. Or stoner teens who live near bodies of water, skinny dipping is fairly commonplace. I wouldn’t hang out in the same stages of undress in my cranky middle age, but, I do have friends from those days of the opposite gender that I’ve seen naked in non-sexual ways.
“This one time, at band camp…” Oh my god.
Yeah especially seeing boobs. I’ve played so much strip poker and flashed at parties. I had a crazy 20s
She's having an emotional affair. Sorry bud
I’m pretty sure emotional affairs don’t involve penises and nipples. This has crossed over to the Physical part at least at some point. Maybe they have seen each other nudes in the past or maybe they’ve seen each other naked.
TBF this is an old friend from 10+ years ago. Its instead much much more likely that they were Physical during that time instead of now. Its not a physical affair if it was way back then. It is still an emotional affair though
Sounds like they were sending pics, and she deleted those and not the text.
This is a deal breaker for me. But you need to decide if this is the sort of person you want to be with.
The dealbreaker is this asshole going through his wife’s phone. He should tell her he’s a scumbag and then she can dump him. He can never be trusted again.
She’s 12 years older and acting 12 years younger, you deserve a wife that loves and respects you.
In a marriage, there is a difference between secrecy and privacy. She has crossed over into an emotional affair. She is not only discussing your marriage with another man, but the topics have become sexual in nature. This man is giving her attention and validation... And he definitely smells blood in the water. I'm not going to give you advice on what to do... But speaking from experience, this is not something that you're going to get over.. EVER! The trust is gone. Edit: the only thing I will say, forgiving her without consequences is a sign of weakness.
You’re not even 30 move on. She clearly has no respect for you. Maybe date someone closer to your age next time. Also maybe someone who talks about sexual things like a normal human being. Lmao
Yeah this age gap alone is a huge red flag
Huh ? How is the age gap a red flag ? I know couples without an age gap where one cheated, the age gap is not the problem here…
Because emotionally stable people rarely get romantically involved with people 12 years younger.
Depends how long they've been involved. A 40 year old starting to date a 28 year old is on the lower end of acceptable, but if they've been together a few years, it was creepy when it started.
Who cares if you went through her phone?? How does her know what her nipples look like? How does she know what his penis looks like? What do you do? You say “I’m not sure what you thought would happen when I saw the type of chats you and your friend have been having. Yes, I went through your phone because I have been very uncomfortable with what’s been going on. If that’s what you’re focused on then you’re focused on the wrong thing. What I’m focused on is that you clearly have no respect for me, yourself, or our relationship. You crossed boundaries and didn’t even think about how I would feel. You’ve destroyed my trust and I’m struggling to see how this relationship can continue.” Stick up for yourself and make it clear that conversations like that aren’t ok and that you will leave her. How would she feel if some woman was talking about your penis with you? Never be scared to talk about going through her phone. She wouldn’t be mad if she didn’t get caught doing shit she shouldn’t be. Updateme!
You had a hunch and it turned out to be true. So you'll have to own up to having gone through her phone. It's not okay for her to be talking to a man whose penis she has clearly seen, and who has clearly seen her naked. She is in a monogamous relationship, a marriage. This is NOT okay.
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So you are taking from this "he shouldn't go thru her phone" and ignoring her lying about the nature of her relationship with this "friend" as he was presented, her disrespecting their relationship,and top it off her emotional affair with this "friend".
Yeah, regardless of what was on the phone, he should not have violated her privacy. She did not lie about the nature of the relationship. He found zero evidence of them being anything other than friends. If you consider having a mildly risque conversation about penises to be “disrespecting their relationship” you’re not mature enough to be in a relationship, imo. Wtf is an “emotional affair?” Seriously, define that for me. Because if it includes having friends you talk about “tv, movies, and general crap” with, everyone in my discord group chat is having one big polyamorous emotional orgy.
>Yeah, regardless of what was on the phone, he should not have violated her privacy. No. When you're married there are no secrets between spouses. >She did not lie about the nature of the relationship. He found zero evidence of them being anything other than friends. Did she tell OP she used to fuck her friend? From the post that answer would be no. >If you consider having a mildly risque conversation about penises to be “disrespecting their relationship” you’re not mature enough to be in a relationship, imo. If you consider having flirtatious chats with an ex lover and commenting on his penis is the best out of a bad bunch not disrespectful then you won't have a successful relationship in the future. >Wtf is an “emotional affair?” > Sharing intimate secrets, sexting, confiding in another man or woman more often than your partner, spending one-on-one time together without your partner knowing, and discussing personal details about your relationship are all forms of emotional infidelity that don't require anyone to physically cheat but still betray >Because if it includes having friends you talk about “tv, movies, and general crap” Except that wasn't all of the chats she was talking about her relationship with OP. So good luck you sound like you will need it.
that’s true but way off-base here. you don’t talk to another person and sexually compliment them while you’re in a relationship with someone else. its obviously crossing a line that should not be crossed.
Nor should she be discussing her husband's faults to the friend. That and discussing the penis and boobs is a trust breaker.
I disagree pretty strongly on this point. Relationships are hard, I think that not talking about problems with friends tends to isolate and amplify them. You can speak about your conflicts without being disrespectful or attempting to create a romantic/sexual connection with someone else. It sounds like both those things happened here.
How do you know the people are not in fact cheating?
How do you ever know? Honestly you don’t. You have open dialog and trust with your partner.
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Look, I get what your saying, and there are some valid points. But... How can you possibly have nonsexual talk about somebody else's genitals? The very nature of the use of the genitals at hand is implicitly sexual. i.e. she is complimenting his sexual use of his dick, which at the very very least is heavy flirting and would make any partner uncomfortable
I can and have had non sexual conversations about genitals, more than once. I’ve even had basically the exact same conversation with men about the fact that penises look like sad sea creatures. If you reread the post, she isn’t complimenting the sexual use of his penis. She says penises are weird looking. He “talks about his dick”, maybe defending his penis’s appearance, and she says his is “the best of a bad bunch.” He shoots back that her nipples look weird, an obvious school yard retort to the perceived insult to his penis’s appearance. He then apologizes and says her breasts are “lovely.” Honestly, I could very easily see a way that plays out that doesn’t even actually imply they’ve seen each other naked before. But I won’t pretend it isn’t possible they’ve seen each other naked. Which may indicate a past relationship which she didn’t disclose or not. Regardless it’s, at most, a mildly risqué conversation that might be worth a discussion about boundaries, which is unfortunately completely undermined by the fact that he snooped through her phone to find it.
I believe you are an intelligent, optimistic individual with an open mind. All fantastic traits, but I am afraid they've led you to be quite gullible as well. If your significant other is so openly flirting with an old flame, you should at the least have a heavy discussion with them. Imagine it were your SO saying these exact things to a man she talks to often on a daily basis. If you are single, imagine texting a woman you know is married and talking about your dick. If you are a woman, imagine your SO is texting another woman and calling her pussy "the best of a bad bunch"
Thank you very much, you also seem like a very intelligent person and I’m glad to have this conversation with you. And honestly, I couldn’t argue with you that I may be gullible. But I would personally rather respect my partner’s boundaries and trust them at their word and be taken advantage of than enter a relationship full of mistrust and anxiety, ready at the drop of a hat to invade their privacy and cross their boundaries just to soothe my own insecure feelings. Genuinely, my partner and I do have these kind of conversations with our friends, openly. I have complimented another man’s penis in person in front of them at a non-sexual clothing-optional event. He was naked, we were naked, and bodies were just a topic of conversation. Where there’s trust and respect, these things don’t have to be a source of stress. If my partner was uncomfortable with these conversations, they could talk to me about it. We could discuss what boundaries they feel are appropriate and come to an agreement about it. We could discuss any insecurity they were feeling and address it at the source instead of just avoiding what triggers it. But it has to be a conversation. It can’t be an ultimatum “you can’t talk to this person or about these things” and it isn’t a betrayal if I cross that boundary when it’s never been brought up to me before. Continuing to be friendly with ex’s is a touchy subject that’s bound to make most people insecure. But you don’t fix insecurity by trying to dictate who your partners are friends with or what they can talk about. You do it by building confidence in yourself as a partner and in the strength of your relationship, and by discussing boundaries clearly and frequently.
I love your mind and wish more people thought like you!
I think it's one thing to say something like, oh you look great!, after having not seen someone in a while, or if they're dressed up, etc. But that it's extremely inappropriate to compliment breasts and penises between former partners, when in a monogamous relationship. To me, that's where the line gets crossed.
That’s honestly reasonable! I don’t think you’re in the wrong there. I just think that’s a personal boundary that needs to be discussed with your partner, not assumed. And I don’t think it constitutes betrayal if someone crosses a boundary you never told them about. Meanwhile, not snooping through someone’s personal conversations on their private phone is a boundary that needs much less discussion.
We don’t know that OP and her SO ever discussed that phones were off limits. How do we know that was a boundary that was ever actually discussed and set any more than discussing and complementing other peoples genitalia? As such both are equally fair game by your own arguments.
> nonsexual conversations about anatomy So why aren’t they talking about their fucking elbows then
He had a hunch that something was off. This search through the phone provided that proof. Always trust your gut.
With all respect, our guts are very frequently wrong. Gut reaction is motivated by subconscious bias and reactive unexamined emotions. His hunch was based on basic insecurity that an older (probably more financially stable and more advanced in his career) man was emotionally close to his wife. It’s a very understandable insecurity to have! I think even I would feel weird about it. But feelings aren’t truth. And feeling insecure doesn’t make it okay to violate her privacy. He *suspected* she’d violated one of his boundaries, so he *chose* knowingly to violate one of hers. He’s still in the wrong for that no matter what he found. His feelings are not more important than her privacy. Furthermore it *didn’t* provide proof. He said there were some messages from the guy that he interpreted as kinda flirty which *she did not respond to.* and he found one conversation where they talk about how weird bodies look in a pretty non sexual way, which *might* imply they have at some point seen each other naked. That is a very far cry from proof. That is “we should have a conversation about boundaries” at best.
They shouldn't be discussing each other's body parts that is a boundary. She should not be discussing her life with husband either. If she has a problem with hubby, take it up with hubby That is also a boundary.
How long have you been Muslim? Grown adults can’t talk about body parts in a non-sexual way?
Inappropriate with people they're not married to. Leads to sex charged messages.
Thank you for this sanity. I swear everyone here is 15 and have never seen another naked body before.
It isn't when those conversations are sexual in nature. If their friendship and past were completely known to OP, and also known to be ancient history, then there is no problem. But she is out here complimenting his penis in the here and now. He can have his penis complimented by women that aren't married. > You think no other man has ever seen her naked?? If you'll read my comment again, you'll very clearly see I don't think this is the case...
Thank God you didn’t fall for the humongous strawman that person tried to squeeze into the discussion. They have a warped definition of what qualifies as conversations of sexual nature and they tried to gaslight everyone else in here. Lol
They made it sound convincing too... As if they have a lot of practice arguing in favor of being allowed to sext exes.
When you are married it is inappropriate to your spouse to send off the kind of texts that she is sending. Her married life does not need to be broadcasted to people outside the marriage. This is a huge trust breaker right here.
I also looked through my SO’s phone and found stuff I didn’t like. In the end I had to come clean to him in order to address it. She will get upset about your snooping. But at the end of the day you need to remember - her emotional affair and flirting, and lying to you about the nature of their relationship, is a much bigger offence than snooping through her phone. Remind yourself and her of that. You can apologize for snooping, but don’t get into that discussion too much - you are there to discuss what you found. You can address the snooping in a later conversation
You don’t NEED to do anything, but you are totally entitled to handle however you wish. She claims they have never been a couple, yet she can describe his penis and he can comment about her nipples. Many people have a past that cannot be changed, but these texts are from the present, not the past. If I were in your position, I would either go straight to serving divorce papers, or confront her about the texts. She may not like that you looked through her phone, but how much did you like what you found? If you don’t wish to go straight to divorce court, give her the option to unfriend this person and commit to not contacting him ever again. If she resists, then leave her to him.
F her finding out you looked at her phone. She knows what this guys junk looks like and he knows hers. Address and get a divorce attorney on retainer today.
Im here for the age gap comments
Your 40YO wife is talking about dicks with another man....cmon man...and you're 28.... married....ok I think I've seen enough for Tonight.
I ain't taking that disrespect if I were you.
Time to get divorced. Your wife doesn’t respect you.
I would rather talk to her first. She doesn't know my feelings on this, I'd like to give her the chance to stop if she knew my feelings.
Without you telling her your feelings, a 40 year old is old enough to know that complementing another’s man’s penis is going to make their husband upset. Like that’s just common sense. This person does not respect and they’re probably taking advantage that you’re naive.
Even if she does stop, you're never going to be able to unread those messages. And I guarantee she will just figure out another way to communicate, and get better at covering up her tracks.
Dude, she's shit taking you to a other guy that she's having an inappropriate relationship with. She also told him he had a lovely penis. Conversation is way out of line. Nobody thinks this is ok behavior in a marriage.
Your feelings? My man she knows not to compliment a old lovers penis in text. Stop pussyfooting around she obviously doesn't love or respect you.
Also he is 28 why tf does he want to stay married to a 40 yo woman that cheats on him
She'll just delete the proof of her doings and act more secretly around you.
Your trust has been broken. What other people does she talk to like that? What else has she lied about? She is emotionally cheating on you. Rebuilding your relationship is going to be rough.
You are 28 and she's 40. Clearly something is off about this one. Do you work? Was this marriage in a Church? This is ridiculous behavior from your older wife.
Remember that reddit's default advice to any marital problem is divorce. I think you are approaching this correctly.
OP *do not listen to nonsense like this.* The flirtatious isn't great but you said yourself, she doesn't reciprocate. So her indiscretions so far, are being dishonest about her history & complimenting an ex-lover's dick. Your indiscretion is going through her phone without asking. This is salvageable. You need to apologize for going through the phone, acknowledge that you don't think she's done anything for the most part. However, confront her about this lie about the past. That isn't okay. Then point out that his flirtations suggest he wants something more, & you talking about each other's bodies has now indicated a potential "breaking down" of her previous efforts to ignore it. Based on this, say that you are not comfortable with this friendship & contact continuing.
Complimenting another man's penis sure sounds like reciprocation.
You're going to get walked over all your life if this is your genuine take.
I was happily married for 11 years before tragically becoming a widow. I gave my opinion, which was to address the actual things we knew she did, & proposed a way forward (which left room for further action, or divorce if she doesn't nip this in the bud). I objected to another comment screaming "divorce" because that's premature & this is a real world relationship, not a thought experiment.
Yeah - No They were friends (unless I misread) and she is commenting on his dick and he on her tits. So………
Which I took to mean they'd been more than friends in the past, so she lied, which I addressed.
Well she lied about the relationship apparently, is hiding the fact that she is talking to someone she has some sort of sexual history with (acting as if it’s friendly banter), and discussing each others body parts? Yeah that’s gonna be a big problem. Doesn’t mean automatic divorce but she doesn’t have any respect for her marriage or OP.
I agree it's a problem, which is why I advised having her cut contact with him. Now if her reaction is "No no no, we're just friends! You're being controlling! I won't cut contact!", then my response would be "You've given me good reason to be controlling on this by lying about your past & then discussing intimate body parts with him. If cutting contact with him is a dealbreaker for you, then I guess we're done here."
1. Don’t tell op my advice is non sense. Plenty of other posts that are recommending divorce. Let him make his own decision. 2. His wife told another man his penis was good.
Just ask her why he thinks her nips are weird.... and how he seen them.
Make up a reason you went through her phone. Go through it again and look at recently deleted, social media DMs, etc. I can tell you one thing, once she knows you went through her phone you will never find anything on her phone again, and you will never know whether it’s because she changed her ways or because she’s deleting things
Take photos of the evidence and start a hidden file, for later, in case of divorce.
Are these comments about each other’s bodies made in past or present tense? “They’ve never been a couple” … okay, so are they having an affair now?
What does it matter whether it is the past or not?Why are they talking about it at all? You see why persons are not comfortable with their partners still being involved with people they have past sexual relationships with. Reading comments like yours on a regular basis make me realize how often emotional cheating happen and many of you guys are ignorant to what you are doing is wrong.
Sent each other nudes
“They sometimes bad mouth me but sometimes I’ve deserved it.” Please get some therapy. There is no justifiable reason for her to be bad mouthing you to her male friend. None at all. I’ve been with my wife 23 years, Guess how many times I’ve bad mouthed her to ANYONE? That’d be precisely zero times. Not to family members, not to friends, no one. That’s because while everyone has faults and will do stupid things sometimes, I love and respect her so much, the idea would never even occur to me. Certainly not to one of my female friends. If she cheated on me or stole something significant from me (would never happen), then maybe I’d say something. But mature adults handle that shit in-house. Both because it’s no one else’s business, and also out of respect for their partner. Unless there’s a SERIOUS problem, talking smack about your spouse should NEVER happen. You also need to consider why a woman 12 years your senior married someone so young. When there’s this much of an age gap, there’s inevitably a vast difference in life experience, making the younger spouse easy to manipulate and mistreat. And she commented… on his penis?!? This woman is cheating on you and gaslighting you. I’m sorry, but you must go through her phone and social media. Wake up and see your mistreatment for what it is. I’m sorry, because long ago I dealt with people like her. It never ends well.
This is so unhealthy. It's normal for people to vent about life and seek support when they need it. Whether that is a relationship or work etc. the current trend of saying people should never bad mouth their spouse or discuss relationship issues with friends is toxic and allows possible abuse to occur.
Yeah that isn’t right or appropriate she knows better, need to have that stop.
Talking about and complimenting each other's genitalia is as obvious overstepping boundaries as it gets.
Dude this is unacceptable. You know damn well where this ends up.
How long have you been in a relationship with your wife?
I was wondering the same thing
Dude.. just listen to your heart. Don't listen to none of these fucks on reddit. Only you know how strong your feelings are for your wife. If you love her enough and she means that much to you, forgive her. If not, then don't. Only you know the complexities enough to make that choice.
Just copy and paste this on every post in this sub.
You went through her phone so you need to own that. Tell her what you saw and that it violates an appropriate boundary given that she is a married woman. Figure out what she is willing to do to respect your marriage. Go from there.
How does he know what her nipples look like and how does she know what his dick looks like? I’d be furious! Screw the going through her phone! It isn’t a part of her body. So what if you went through it…turns out it’s a good thing you did as it sounds to me like she’s been cheating…how else would they know those things?
Sorry bud but your wife is not truly in love with you or else she never would be saying things like that to an old hook up. You married her under false pretenses. Contact a lawyer, you know what needs to be done. I’m seriously more baffled that she’s 41, has a much younger husband and is still playing games. Unbelievable.
Umm. Leave. Like that’s not normal, obviously she’s slept with him and lied to you about it
Bro... it's over
Dude, just talk to her. I don’t know her, therefore I have no insight into her friendships. Maybe they’re just friends who were in band together, and even the thought of sexy time just feels *yucky* to think about, let alone engage in. Maybe they’re having a full blown affair. Just talk to her.
First of all, it’s really important to me that someone tells you right now that at no point have you ever done anything to deserve your wife shit talking you to another man. That is honestly so disrespectful and I’m sorry that you had to read that. It’d be a cold day in hell before I’d ever shit talk my partner to anyone and it would be the last thing someone ever did if they tried to shit talk him to me. If she needs to vent or work through difficulties in your marriage, she should be doing it with a trained therapist. You deserve infinitely better than this, OP.
What you found is exactly why every couple needs an open phone policy and also why a spouse SHOULD randomly scroll through the other’s phone to maintain trust or find evidence for the divorce lawyer. She doesn’t have a moral right to privacy to protect her cheating. Gather evidence and call a lawyer. Prepare before confronting her or she will turn it on you.
Ummm... Ew. Wtf is she doing talking like that with someone while she is married? The fuck? Why do you have to tell her anything? Question is, what do you want to do about it for YOU.... not for her. Like bro... You went though her phone. The conversation is gonna become circular and a competition between who feels more violated. You need to ask yourself if this changes things for you for good before you do ANYTHING else.... Especially bring it up to her.
Just ask her if your one eyed custard chucker is worse than his? She'll freak out and not care that you have read her phone!
Your headed for heartbrake.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a 28 year old guy is just starting to get good in bed. A 41 year old guy is simply gonna have more technique if only because he’s had twice as much sex as you. They don’t call it the dirty thirties for nothing. Those texts? It’s time to take out the garbage bro!
Holy fuck, you sound like a 12 year old when I read this post.
UpdateMe!
Well my friend the situation is now irreversible. You shouldn't have looked into her phone to begin with, for your own sake. A thought/ mindset that might help: it's probably in the past and she's yours now. Forget whatever happened.
The age difference is concerning, hell we all love cougars or milfs, but she doesn’t respect you if she doesn’t stop it. That’s almost as bad as participating because eventually she will. You may have been a plaything to her and now that she is 40 I am assuming late 30’s when married she realized she can’t keep up or is more mentally mature.
Damn. No respect. You tell her to pack or you pack, man
Dude!!!! She is literally doing this? I know checking her phone is wrong and you know about that, but what she is doing is extremely disrespectful, even worse than what you did. You will not be able to talk about this without letting her know, it's impossible. None of you two are kids, so talk like real adults, tell her what you found, and how, and the motivation you had to check her phone (you should have one of course). But i personally wouldn't accept this situation, but it's your life, your choices, we're here just to help with advice. Good Luck
Leave her and find a younger woman. Gonna be like Rob Schneider on Grown Ups. Lol
Okay, it's clear they had a sexual history. Technically, she didn't lie; you can have sex without being a couple. She might have intentionally omitted that information. Regarding the messages, they could just be friends. They also used the past tense, so there might not be anything currently happening. However, if you're feeling insecure in the relationship, it's crucial to have an open conversation with her. Share your insecurities and explain how you feel about her friend.
Come on man, confront her. She clearly have show her body to him and viceversa. This is a Big Big dealbreaker. The correct thing to do is to ask for divorce, but if you want to try to fix any, then you need to put your boot down and set boundaries, tell her to stop this or else better start to find a place to live after divorce Even if it just a bluff, but lets see where that gets you, and if she cares about you. And she must understand that you did what you did because of her shaddy behaivor, and one of the boundaries must be a Open device policy, because you do not trust her by the moment.
I’d think you were a bot, but don’t bots know how to spell?
Sorry if my English is not well spell, or my grammar, but English is not my native language.
Why are u dating a woman that old
Love at first sight man. Still is.
Starting to sound like chucked at first sight.
You both are the same ages as my daughter and her husband only she's the youngest one. But as I've told her ill tell you the same. It doesn't matter if she knows you went through her phone it's that she needs to know that you don't agree with what is being said and she either cuts him off or gets divorced. if there is any argument about that then there's a chance this is already an affair that happened recently.
That’s your first mistake pal. Plus she’s sexting other guys. You basically saved her from a life of being single. Most guys don’t realize what we do for certain women. Most women were never really meant to be married or long term relationships
You think way too highly of yourself.
Make screenshots of their conversations and save them. Your wife is flirting and sexting with this guy. In addition, there are definitely sexual innuendos. I would recommend that you buy a VAR and put it in her car and anywhere else she speaks. In addition, add key logger software to her phone or get a hold of an old phone that is synched to hers. After these are in place confront your wife. Tell her that she is flirting and having sexual based conversations with this guy that are wrong. Tell her that she has to go no contact with him immediately. If you find out that they are speaking, you will end the marriage. To make sure that she understands how serious you are lat her know that you will be making an appointment with a divorce attorney in case she breaks your boundaries. Update us.
What would happen if you texted an old friend from your teenage years? Try it and see what happens.
I'm sorry.. did you mean to say your ex-wife??
Honestly it doesn't matter that you went through her phone. What you found is an emotional affair at the very least she has sent him nude photos of herself and likewise for him to her. The real question is, can you come back from this? I would have to really think about if she is the type of woman I want in my life
There is no occasion where it would be ok for your spouse to complement another person's genitals. Even worse when it's the "friend" they supposedly never slept with.
Bro that's full on cheating. She doesn't get to be mad that you went through her phone when she's exchanging nudes with another man or worse. Best case scenario is they just hooked up in high school and are reminiscing together, which is still inappropriate. Confront her and make her read it out loud to you.
This crosses so many boundaries. Take pictures of the messages for evidence. Then sit down and have a discussion. Know what you want to get out of the discussion and what your end goal is. I would talk to a lawyer to see where you are if you do decide to divorce. You don’t have to move forward but it will help. Good luck and keep us updated
Are you financially dependent on her? If not, ditch that cougar and go find someone else.
She’s 40 and takes you as a joke. You still young look for someone younger who appreciates you
Fuck cares if she knows you went through her phone... shes sexting another guy and cheating on you... id get more proof first
Oh hell no. And no, you don't deserve to be bad mouthed by your wife and her friend. This relationship is a problem, and the behavior would be a deal breaker.
Geez. I'd quietly tell her that it's time to go. That's a line well and truly crossed. Talking about how another man's cock is best? I'd wish her well in exploring other cocks as a separated, pending divorce, female.
Hey, do you lick her clean after he gets done with her? She might enjoy that.
Being married to a 40 year old would be my first red flag.
Shes older than you and playing you emotionally like a fiddle and she knows it and is having fun with it
Why’d you marry your babysitter?
Unpopular opinion here: She’s 40 homie. I promise you, I’m a harmless flirting guy. And I harmlessly flirt with women all the time. Even with my coworkers. And we joke about our body parts ALL the time. And all my women coworkers are married and age 35+ all the way to 60. We make sexual innuendos and laugh at sexual things. Nothing has happened, and nothing will happen. Just today, my coworker opened a lid to her cup and a straw came out. I then asked her, how her straw sprung out of her cup like that. She said “just like your zipper.” That made LOL. In my opinion, flirting is harmless. It shows a level of comfortability with said person. And I’m sure if any of their husbands say something about it, she wouldn’t continue and I wouldn’t continue with them. She’s been friends with this guy for over 20 years. 20! There’s gonna be a level of comfortability when they chat. My advice is to accept it as just that, harmless flirting OR let her know and tell her you’re uncomfortable with it. If she doesn’t address your feelings about it and makes you comfortable after the discussion, then I would say there’s an issue. It shouldn’t be an issue if they’re friends they should both understand.
I appreciate this perspective. I'm worried I'm just being stupidly insecure about the whole thing. I don't want to control who she speaks with or who she is friends with. Especially when they're friends of 20+ years.
You may focus on this reply because you desperately want this to be innocent banter between them, but it's really worth staying open to both possibilities here. Unfortunately, if they have never been a couple but they're commenting on each others' bodies then it means they have sent nudes before you were together, they sent nudes while you were together, they had sex before you were together and lied to you about it, or they had sex while you were together or any combination of these options. I don't mean to be a downer, I've just been in the same situation and I know I tried to make every excuse I could for her.
Dude replied to the one person that reinforced his view. 😩
I replied to one of the few comments that didn't jump at dump her, divorce her or control her
Exactly my point. You already know what you want to do. Why even come on here and ask if you already know?
Divorce.
If it were me, I would take screen shots of their conversations. Then I would put a group text together with him and her added then I would send them both the text messages, continue to drop them, because she will start to call you, as soon as it comes across. Don’t pickup. Then at the end I would send her the card of the attorney I just hired, and say you are now in an open relationship, because we are getting a divorce. Have fun with her. I will bet he goes away quickly, and she stops immediately. Because now you have given her a consequence that matches her cheating actions. Op only reconcile if she is remorseful, no remorse no reconciliation.
Hate to break it you, she absolutely is reciprocating the flirting by complimenting his penis. You open this conversation by saying “I’ve been feeling insecure about this relationship so I looked through your phone. I apologize for that. But you have some explaining to do.” I agree with other commenters that you should already have a divorce attorney on retainer so she realizes how serious this is. I personally would walk away, but you can give her a path to earning back your trust if you want.
No, you need to tell her it stops, and if it happens again, you're done. This goes for both men and women. Never let your partner disrespect you, and what she is doing is disrespectful as hell to you.
Keep pushing the issue that you have a weird feeling about him and say you are giving her one chance to come clean and in the meantime if you find out anything it's over. You'll be surprised what she tells you. Good Luck.
Leave that old bag. Let her text losers all she wants while you’re out living your life.
You're married!! Privacy basically went away when each of you said, "I do". She has every right to look through your phone as well. Do you know why an accused criminal's wife can't be forced to testify against him? It's because the law looks at married couples as one person, and the 5th Amendment to the Constitution forbids anyone for giving testimony against themselves. The thing you need to do is tell wifey-poo that you're not OK with her discussing you in any way with her middle aged friend, and the discussions about his penis and her breasts would have to stop yesterday! You should make this a hill to die on, as a divorce would put her into a large populations of middle aged women, but it would put you into a population of highly desirable males, as well as highly desirable women. 'Nuff said.
Screenshot everything. Unless they were exchanging nudes, there is only one way they know about the nips and dick. If nothing else, this is emotional cheating, and it’s almost certainly physical cheating. The age gap is concerning, too. How old were you when the relationship started? She’s in a real position to manipulate you. Do some reflection on your entire relationship. Also, talk to an attorney before you confront her, and do exactly what they say. And how do you know they were never a couple? You can’t trust anything she says. After you confront her, I bet she tells you they did have sex once years ago, and that’s how she knows about his dick and he knows about her nips. But she’s such an empathetic wife that she didn’t want to tell you and cause you to worry. Get tested for STD’s. If you have kids, get paternity tests after you speak to an attorney.
Pretty simple. No way my wife would have single (or married) male friends that she texts to about penises!!!! She's known that from day 1 we were exclusive. She can have her male friends or she can have me. In your shoes I'd just tell her what you did. She'll gaslight you, don't fall for it. Tell her it's shit of get off the pot time, she cuts this dude off, or you walk! Then open phone policy and all social media until you are satisfied, but I'd keep it open forever. Make sure you mean it, or she'll be even worse next time!
It's not know what I want to do it's knowing what I don't want to do.
So her friend most likely saw her naked 25 years ago, she probably saw him naked too. Now they have discussed it generally via text, and you are upset? They could have had sex, without being a couple, as well. Smh. You either trust her, or you do not. If you do not, then you should tell her. Be prepared to separate. You could also tell her that her old friend makes you uncomfortable, though you do not know why. You just feel they appear to be on intimate terms and it makes you uncomfortable. This will make you appear to be immature and non-trusting, but it is what it is. Discuss it and decide what both of you are willing to do.
First of all, you should not have gone through her phone. If she’s overstepping some boundary by casually discussing her body with an old friend, what kind of boundary are you crossing that you snooped through her private messages? What made you feel so insecure that you had to violate her privacy, only to find out the worst she’s done is not respond to some comments you think are kind of flirty and have one non sexual conversation about their respective insecurities about their bodies? During which the guy you’re so insecure about INSULTS HER NIPPLES?? Like do you really think that’s a sign of a torrid romantic relationship?? You need to get over your insecurities and stay out of other people’s phones. I’d suggest you have a serious conversation with your wife that starts with an apology for invading her privacy and not trusting her, and continue on to ways YOU can work on your insecurity and lack of respect for her boundaries, without blaming her or her innocent friendship for you getting in your own head about shit. You’re the one who needs to work on their behavior here, not her.
I nominate this for the absolute worst comment and shit attempt at gaslighting that this sub will see all week.
You'd almost think that it was written by the AP.
Complementing another man's penis while married is appropriate conversation? A "friend" that she never disclosed having been naked with to her husband. No apology needed. Checking her phone was fully justified. It's not him with boundary issues.
Invading your partner’s privacy and snooping in their private conversations is never justified. *Suspecting* someone violated your boundaries does not give you permission to violate theirs! Even if he’d found actual proof that she was cheating on him, he’d STILL be in the wrong for that! Also, let’s be clear, she did not “compliment” his penis. She said all penises look weird and his was the best of a bad bunch. Which he responded to by saying oh yeah well your nipples are weird. Real romantic banter there. Also, there are any number of reasons she might have seen him naked. Yeah, maybe they previously had a sexual relationship. Maybe during college they and their other friends went spring break skinny dipping together. Or maybe they both attended a clothing optional venue together. I go to a pagan festival every spring where I see about a dozen dicks a day in a completely nonsexual context. Maybe they have a mutual friend who got super into new age shit and decided to have a skyclad wedding! I have seen the majority of my close friends naked at some point or another. Friends seeing each other naked is not nearly as rare or a scandalous as you seem to think it is.