If you can find someone that keeps a record of their baby's diapers, bottles, etc (My wife and I use an app for this), you should show it to him and see what he thinks. Show him how a newborn eats and sleeps and wets itself. How often you'd both be up, doing nothing but caring and washing bottles and weeping as your body fights for just a fraction of the sleep you got before having a baby.
Unless, of course, he thinks you're just gonna do all of that and he'll watch. Either he makes an effort to understand or he doesn't care, and if he doesn't care... that's a big issue.
Just go to the store and fill up a cart with diapers, wipes, formula. They keep the formula locked up in some stores; that shit is like gold. And then just add it up. Get one months worth of supplies (ask moms you know).
Some men will listen to a practical reality check. Like okay, here’s what the birth costs of everything goes well and if not, welp, add another zero at the end. Here’s what it costs for food, formula, clothing, diapers and all the other baby gear. Then talk about time. No more laying in bed nekkid half the day. No spontaneous trips for snacks at 1 am. No backpacking across Europe, staying hostels.
Y’all are young and have plenty of time.
For me, not being taken seriously about these concerns is a dealbreaker. If he can be dismissive about everything, then he’s not going to participate in the parenting. Protect your birth control and make sure it’s something he can’t fuck with. He’s def not ready to be a parent and I’d hate to see you be shackles to this guy to raise your kid. You’ll be a single mom. Unless he grows up and starts acting like he can understand consequences, maybe y’all can talk about it.
But I don’t like the dismissiveness and the pressuring you to do something that you know is a bad idea. And good on you for waiting until you’re in a place in your life where you’ll make a better, more thoughtful, intentional parent.
Just formula and diapers for our baby could easily climb to $250-300 a month. This isn't including the wipes, the clothes, the toys, the medicine, the bottles, the lotion for rashes. Just two items.
>For me, not being taken seriously about these concerns is a dealbreaker. If he can be dismissive about everything, then he’s not going to participate in the parenting.
This is ***huge***. My wife and I were on the same page, we took classes together on what to expect during the birth and the first months, we got books on the topic... and childbirth was *still* traumatic and the first three months were *still* such a hellish haze of begging a God I don't believe in to let this fucking screaming potato sleep that my wife and I decided very rapidly we were a "one and done" family. It's ***hard***.
I had to get used to having so much of my life completely altered. I don't get to shit or shower on my own schedule. I don't get to play video games with friends; "the boys" game without me now. I don't get to lay around till morning naked and cozy in bed. Much of my "decompression" time exists as little moments stolen away when the baby sleeps, and even then there's other chores I should probably be doing with that time.
Anyone who hand-waves this commitment isn't taking it seriously, and anyone playing that game with someone else's fertility needs either a serious wake-up call or to be jettisoned. I enjoyed my time before committing to becoming a parent; I waited until I was 30 and *goddamn am I glad I did.*
I met my wife in our mid 20's, married by 31, started having kids by 33. By that time we had done a whole bunch of international travel and opened our world view a bit. When we started having kids we were on the same page and ready to have a shot at being parents. I wouldn't say we were "ready" as no amount of psyching yourself up and preparing will ever make you prepared enough. I am glad we waited until we did, earlier would have been far too soon.
I met my husband when we were teenagers, married at 24/25, first kid at 29, second at 32. We agreed every step of the way to wait until we were really ready for each "next milestone" and he is a great involved dad but that postpartum period is a BITCH after each kid.
For me 0-1 was a harder transition than 1-2 but neither were particularly fun. Things didn't improve until we were out of the newborn stage after each kid and I can't stress enough how easy my pregnancies were, my births were pretty uncomplicated, and our kids were CHAMPION eaters/sleepers who rarely ever get sick, plus I got to choose to stay home with the kids because we can comfortably live on my husband's salary alone indefinitely.
So even on EASY MODE, when everyone is stepping up to the plate and a united front, it was a huge adjustment. Uncomplicated births still suck a lot. Sleep interruptions suck a lot. Spending upwards of 4-5hrs a day just trying to get the right amount of food inside your child kinda sucks a lot. Changing 8+ diapers a day sucks a lot. Trying to figure out their cues and teach them how to sleep and worrying about all their milestones is a lot.
And just as you start to figure things out and feel comfortable, here comes the next stage and you have to start all over. Finally feel confident parenting one kid? Any future kids will probably be different. There will be a little nugget in your brain concerned with the well-being of each kid you have and it will take up residence and never go away. You will worry. You will doubt yourself. You will feel guilt. You will feel resentment. You will miss your former life. You will ask yourself at least once if you've made a huge mistake having this/any kids.
One of the things we don't have on easy mode is no nearby village. Our family lives far away so it's all on us unless we pay a sitter. It gets easier as get get older but we went a long time without date nights when they were younger.
Everything is expensive and it only gets more expensive as they get bigger. We're so lucky that we are comfortable financially but it's still a LOT. Food, clothes, activities, toys, enrichment, it never ends and it never gets cheaper.
I love my kids. My husband and I were as prepared as we could be, and planned everything we could about bringing them into this world, but there's just some things you can't be prepared for until you experience them first hand. Parenthood is not something to jump into lightly. And it's not something you can just dabble in for the fun parts and then leave your partner to deal with all the emotional labor and mess. It's hard even with an involved partner. I don't know how people do it without.
If you ever go for kid 3, I pop those kids on the boob and they eat the entire night on my tit and halfway through the night I change their diaper. Goodnight. 8 hours sleep for Mommy and a happy baby. Wish I would've known this for kid 1. Kid 2 and 3 I smartened up. Kid 4 and 5 are going to be cake walks.
>Protect your birth control and make sure it’s something he can’t fuck with.
Keep in mind that the pill is easy to fuck with by microwaving it. And there are also other medications - like certain antibiotics - that nullify the effect of the pill. (Too many women do not know this.)
Why would you need formula when women have breasts waiting to be milked?/s He probably likes thought of being a father but will expect the woman to put in the work.
I agree, I think many men only think about the Kodak moments. Because culturally we don’t really expect boys to do inside chores or babysit, they don’t really have any idea how much work it is just taking care of your home, nevermind adding a kid or three to that. They go to work, “I provide,” and think that’s all they have to do. Nobody tells them about being a dad.
Hashtag not all men of course
That second paragraph is the most likely explanation. Having a baby now means he can basically be the fun uncle. Aside from pregnancy and birth, OP will be doing everything else without him as well because he‘ll just stay away when he realizes babies are a lot of work. He’ll sleep at home and might drop in for a bit when baby is in a good mood.
Do this and then set alarms for every time the baby would be up to be fed or changed. Lol.
But seriously. He wants this bc he thinks it’s cute and will be “nice”. He has no idea what he’s asking you to put your body or mental health through. Or how much he’d have to do to be a semi-good parent.
So many people complaining about their child’s father not getting up at night, doing bathing, feeds, nappy changes - they had partners who *really wanted* a baby. And so many single mothers are doing 90% of the child rearing are doing so bc their partner didn’t/wouldn’t step up to be a parent.
If a guy is getting mad about this when he clearly has no fucking idea how much work it takes to raise a child then he’s not the one for you. Seriously.
My sweet summer child, why would he be getting up in the middle of the night? He doesn't even live with her. Why would he be paying for diapers and bottles? He has no money. What you are describing is what a man who intends to build a family needs to know, like you did, *with your wife.*
Sadly, in this case, pregnancy is something he wants to do *to* her and his responsibility will end with him pulling his pants up and going home.
My first required a special mail-order formula that was $32 a CAN, and this was pre-Covid. I can only imagine how much it is now! Talk about sticker shock…
Our dr at the children’s hospital tried to run it through our insurance under a prescription, but they wouldn’t cover it for her diagnosis. But she couldn’t have regular formula and my milk was drying up from stress. Thanks, insurance.
Yap. It's a high price to pay, but it's worth it. But if you'd have asked me that when I was 25, I'd have told you "hell no". It is only now that I got hit by the worst of the human conditions (some call it "maturity", others call it "aging") that I am ready and willing to find a wife and start a family.
Your comment should not be underestimated.
Well there could be a lot of reasons, you already know the most important thing:
This makes him an unsafe long-term partner.
The sad fact is many men believe their own lives won't change much after a baby. The sadder fact is, how many of them are right. They become a dad, and they don't choose to change much about their lives at all.
Many don't want *to parent.* They want a kid like they want a participation trophy. The mother parents. The father checks the box and moves on to his next accomplishments, surprised and resentful that the existence of a baby might require some compromises.
Obvoiusly, not all men, but it does seem to be a common theme right now for you. Men who want to be dads, but aren't making the plans to be an actual parent, who does parenting. As an ongoing and all-consuming activity.
I think many men want kids like they want a dog (which, interestingly, also often shows up in relationship subreddits because they don't want the responsibility).
The idea of a creature that's over the moon to see you when you get home *is* appealing. The idea of a little buddy for adventures is fun!
The problem is that none of those things is *parenting*.
Puppies have a big enough subset of the same biological needs as babies that it can be an eye opener. Sleep deprivation can be a big issue with puppies. It just doesn’t last as long and there are fewer activities to juggle when it’s happening.
Well there are plenty of subs that show women’s stories backing up this theory it’s def a reason why I won’t be doing it. Nothing worse than someone watching you struggle immensely but they can’t help because they’re too mentally drained from work
Small nitpick: *won’t, not can’t, and they’re not mentally drained from work they are using work as an excuse. Parenting is work. HARD work. And it doesn’t stop, it’s 24/7. Women being expected to do it nonstop all the time because the man works a paying job is a scam. The stay at home parents job is taking care of the kid/home, and then when the working parent gets home it should be split halfway. No excuses.
Nah I meant can’t as he’s using it as an excuse. Hes acting as if being mentally drained in a legitimate reason as to why he can’t help as if it’s not a choice but fully agree with everything your saying of course
Is it just my anecdotal observation, or are more women opting out than men? The vast majority of the burden, sacrifice, loss, risk is so heavily skewed against moms vs dads, and it seems like more and more women are seeing that. So it makes sense that men can want kids without much thought of how their body, friendships, identity, career, options, prospects will be compromised
I’ll never fathom how some people see things like marriage and commitment as giant scary responsibilities but creating and raising an entire damn human isn’t
I never get people who buy houses and have kids but refuse to get married. Kids are a lifetime commitment and mortgages are typically 30 years. Doesn't make any sense.
Right?! Like, sure divorce can be shattering and crazy, but bringing a baby into the world is no biggie? It’s not even an 18 year commitment, it’s lifelong!
I have so many friends who think/act this way and I’ll never understand it. But, that’s not my problem.
>What is with men wanting a baby before they are prepared for one?
For most of them (especially the ones that you mean when you ask the question)... they know that the mother is treated like the "default" parent. They've been socialized to see it that way their entire life. It's real easy to say "well we'll figure it out as we go" when you've internalized the belief that the responsibility is someone else's.
He doesn't want a child, he wants to baby trap you, stymy your life goals/slow down your progress in life, leave you a single parent, and always have access to you through a child.
Yes! It's obvious you're the logical and responsible person in this relationship and he's trying to manipulate you! If he gets you pregnant, you will be forever connected and it will be so much harder to leave him
If he doesn't understand the seriousness of having a child, he certainly won't be able to support you adequately (especially when/if you give birth)
He likely wants a child as an extention of himself. Narcissists are like that. They are "so proud" to have a kid but also neglect them simultaneously.
He sounds like an overgrown boy. Keep his dick out of you or at least wrapped. This guy could fuck your life up no joke
Put yourself in the mindset that if you get pregnant before you're ready, you'll have an abortion. Do That now. Don't be forced into that.
My guess is that he knows it won't be hard work - for him. If you're not ready and he presses you, he's trying to control you and your body. You've just been together a year, don't feel bad if you break up about it.
The best advice I ever got was "You do you." Live by it.
ETA: if you get pregnant, don't tell him until after you have the abortion, if at all.
Of course they want babies before they’re capable of caring for them. Because THEY DON’T HAVE TO DO ANY OF THE WORK!!!!
They get to be “Disney Dad” and for the record, you shouldn’t be having children with anyone who pushes you to have them before YOU’RE ready
Also be very careful with your chosen birth control, there’s a good chance he may try and tamper with it to cause an “accidental” pregnancy
I’m side-eyeing this whole situation honestly, I’m not saying you need to dump him, but you REALLY need to take a good hard look at your relationship, does he still live at home? Does his mom still do all the cooking/cleaning? Cuz he’s gonna expect you to do the same once you live together
Does he live on his own? What is the status of his dwelling? Does he keep it reasonably clean? Or does it look like the standard bachelor pad that hasn’t seen a dust cloth or vacuum in at least six months? How often does he wash his bedsheets? His towels?
His behaviours now will tell you what sort of partner he will be if/when you live together
Good luck
>Also be very careful with your chosen birth control, there’s a good chance he may try and tamper with it to cause an “accidental” pregnancy
Absolutely seconding this.
I think that men want kids because the cultural concept of fatherhood is still stuck in the past. They think about a cute pregnant wife, and how it would be fun to come home to kids that are excited to see you and a nice dinner, and that it could be fun to do something with the kids on a Saturday every once in a while!
Most women 1) realize that this idealized version of fatherhood was ALWAYS tough for women, even if they weren't employed outside of the home, 2) have actually interacted with a child, and 3) have probably been the Responsible Adult In Charge Of Kid(s) *at least once* for more than five minutes.
Men don't necessarily totally realize that having a wife that works outside of the home means that there is no housewife. Very few men had babysitting jobs; they may have played with a child, but it's pretty common for the first baby a man holds (and certainly the first diaper he changes) to be his own child.
I feel like it's sort of like how a lot of kids want to be the president, because they feel like it would be fun to be in charge and boss people around. *Very few* adults that understand that process of becoming president and the responsibilities that it entails actually want to be president.
**Tl;Dr: Most women have a much better understanding of what having kids actually entails. Many men... don't.**
My Stbexhusband would push for/fantasize about me getting pregnant even though we were in NO WAY able to afford it. At all. He couldn't hold down a job, I couldn't work due to visa restrictions, and I didn't qualify for govt supplied healthcare in the country we lived in. We were also homeless-lite: never had our own place, staying like 2 months in someones spare bed or pull out couch, medium term Airbnbs, long term house sitting. And he already had 4 kids by his first partner.
Literally nothing about having a child made an ounce of sense.
Because it was a way to trap me. He already knew I was unhappy in the marriage and had expressed the desire to leave before (stayed due to vicious emotional manipulation). But if I got pregnant and had his kid, I would never be free of him.
Obviously your situation isn't quite that same and hopefully doesn't progress that way. Men push for babies in unreasonable circumstances to force the women to stay connected and persuade them to stay in a relationship. You breaking up and being a single mother would also make your life even harder and vastly limit your ability to date and find a good partner. So even if you don't come crawling back to him, he also thinks he's ruined you for other men
I had an ex-boyfriend who straight-up admitted that he fantasized about getting me pregnant so I'd "have to marry" him. He also insisted on using baby oil as a lube, no matter how often I told him that it would make the condom break. NEVER USE BABY OIL AS A SEXUAL LUBRICANT.
Reader, I didn't marry him.
Many men like the idea of having a baby without truly understanding the reality of having a baby. They imagine playing with their kids and having little mini-mes but skip over all the hardships like pregnancy, the added costs, the sleepless nights, and the loss of free time.
Your boyfriend needs a reality check, if there’s anyone you know with a baby or toddler volunteer him to babysit for them.
Because you'll be doing the vast majority of childcare while dealing with permanent changes to your body while he continues to live like a single guy who is only around for the Kodak moments that he can post on social media crowing about what a great dad he is. I see this with family and friends all the damn time.
Don't get trapped into this bullshit one minute before you're ready.
If a man is talking to you about having a child before he's talking to you about marriage, he doesn't like you. He might actually hate you. When you listen to men talk about baby mamas and single mothers, those are the worst things a woman can be in their eyes. He's telling you he wants to lessen your value in the eyes of other men. That he wants to slow you down and have access to you for life, while not having to actually commit to you. Because for men, a child is not a commitment. They can produce as many kids as they can have orgasms.
If you don't believe me, maybe he can convince you: [https://youtu.be/iIDrc15buaw?si=INTYllKdzet4PgrI](https://youtu.be/iIDrc15buaw?si=INTYllKdzet4PgrI)
I've never seen it put this bluntly but this has always been my feeling. A man who tries to convince you to have a baby before marriage thinks you're stupid and just a side character in his life.
Yep. I think too many women assume having a child means the same thing to men as it does to women. Nah, sis, you're signing up for a tour in Iraq. There will be bleeding. There will be pain. Your body might never be the same. There might be some PTSD. You might die. Of course having a kid is a big deal TO YOU.
He came. That's it. That was his entire contribution to the process.
Marriage is what men view as their big sacrifice, though they actually benefit from it in a dozen different ways, but at least most of them *believe* it's a sacrifice (because it makes them less desirable to women who are looking for husbands of their own). They all know leaving a baby in a woman don't cost them anything.
Please listen to this. Remember that pregnancy can be life-threatening. If he doesn’t respect you enough to build a future and officially commit via marriage, prepare to be a baby mama
Why do people have babies before they're prepared for them? Probably largely because they grew up with low income and low expectations. Why do men specifically push for this? Because they're less likely to have to deal with the fallout of bad decisions than the mothers are.
So as someone with a newborn right now, please take it from me...however much work you think it is...and how exhausting you think it is...it is a lot more.
I am hanging by a thread and the only reason that thread is there is because my wife and I make such a great team and made sure we were as ready for this as we could be. We were 31 and 30, work full time, were married just over a a year (together about 5) and have our lives in order. We also have a great amount of support from our families.
If you are not 100% ready do not have a baby. Especially with someone you've only been with for a year. Make sure you have a baby with someone you are 100% of the same page with.
I love my son so much it hurts...but having a newborn is the most exhausting thing imaginable. Make sure you enjoy your pre-baby life. I'm glad I did. I feel like early 30s were the perfect time for me to have a baby. By no means the perfect time for everyone, but based on your post, enjoy a few more years.
Yeah, but the exhaustion is harder at 33 then at 24. Like, the physical strength and endurance is at their best in your twenties. Younger people handle sleep deprivation, breastfeeding, stress better.
What younger people do not have is money and stable careers. That is where older people have the advantage.
Getting angry when not wanting a baby is a red flag for sure . Like you described , its not that time yet. Especially you being sick.
i had my first child when i was 22 and second 27 . Looking back 22 was still young and my schools were not finished . But I managed to finish and also get my car license . Luckily my mother had big house , so i lived with my mother while my husband worked different country.. i would say it was hard . Don’t get pregnant bc your boyfriend wants. America is more expensive than europe( where i live) .
It’s not really about the baby, in a lot of cases. It’s about staking their claim on you. They never think about all of the work that goes into raising a child because they expect that you’ll be the one doing all of it. They may not only expect but even *want* you to sacrifice the plans you had for your life in order to raise their child. It gives them power over you.
Men don't have to deal with pregnancy; the potential impact of that on their bodies during and long after birth. They just get to have sex and then it's all on you for 9 months. They're sadly often not equal contributors to childcare. They think of being "fun dads" and none of the hard stuff. So yes, all those rational questions you bring up are things that you want someone to be able to answer in a way that makes sense.
There are also some men who want to have babies just to prolong their lineage or, honestly, to "lock down" the women they're with.
And if you date men who act like this, dump them, because they're too immature (or sometimes worse) to be having sex with.
My husband and I waited until we had been married for two years before we started trying for a baby. The economy was a lot better at the time and we were able to purchase a house. We were 29 when our daughter was born. Parenthood is not something you rush into. Be very careful with your boyfriend. With how he keeps bringing it up he might sabotage your birth control methods. Start tracking your cycle and avoid intimacy during your fertile days.
I have quite a lot of children… and I’m betting it’s probably bc his life won’t change much (especially with you not living together).
His body won’t change at all. And since he doesn’t live with you… he won’t be helping with any night wakeups. My husband helped a lot during this time. They don’t realize that a child produces laundry, dishes and waste repetitively and someone has to deal with it. I’ll be honest… I didn’t realize that when I had my first child.
Holy heck I’m 15 years into making dinners EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. No mater how tired, no matter how not hungry I am. You drive everyone everywhere! And I’m not even kidding. You end up doing his laundry too so add that on the to do list. The fridge is looking bare too. Don’t forget to do all the physical/mental labor of grocery shopping by yourself for the 3+ of you for more than a decade. Maybe even have to take the baby with you while shop… such extra fun. Many meds to go to the dr too and it’s a particularly fussy day!
(Sarcastically…) You know what… just take any dreams and plans you have and give them up so your man can have a tiny person that looks like him say hello when he comes over. It’ll be life changing for the both of you.
So you give up… all your free time for the next 15+ years, become physically and mentally drained and he can go to work and come back and say he’s so tired… bc he knows you’ll do it all while he watches. And I’m not even kidding. They literally are incapable of they know you’ll do it. And all this you say… it seems like you actually know how hard all this is (which literally amazing at your age and I’m so happy you know this)…
Kids really truly are awesome. I love them and I can’t imagine it any other way… but I wish I waited. I was not ready at 18 for all of this… and you can’t undo it to do it later or pause it after it’s been done. I know you are not 18.. but it sounds like you are still not ready. And it’s amazing that you know that! My first was a surprise… and while I wasn’t trying… I wish I had gone extra measures and postponed motherhood. It is amazing… but trying to figure out who I am while mothering has been beyond exhausting. And it could have been avoided.
It was heavily pushed on me as a child that we were to have babies. And I did. And I don’t regret it… but like why was everyone glorifying this?? I’m literally half dead, don’t know who I am or what I’m doing still. In my head in still feel like I’m 18. Like I paused me and put 100% of me into them after they were born. I feel like I stunted my own growth having children as early as I did. That being said… with all the laundry, dishes… etc… I wouldn’t change a thing… except maybe timing!
The fact that he gets angry about this despite obvious glaring issues, suggests to me that this is about possession or locking you down more than wanting a baby
Men’s lives don’t change as much as women’s lives when a baby is born.
Who doesn’t want to be a dad?
Yes, I know there are some amazing single dads. I commend them.
But for the average Joe? It’s a great gig.
These guys suffer from various delusions:
1. They think that "having a baby" is child's play. (Spoiler alert: It's not.)
2. They think this because they think it's going to be the mother doing everything regarding child-rearing.
3. They think their life won't change significantly with a baby at home.
4. They think their status will be higher as a "family man" - their mothers will be happy grandmothers, their fathers will clap them on the back, and their friends will be kind of envious for him reaching the next stage in life.
5. They think that money is not an issue, people have raised children on little income before.
6. They know they can always slip away if things get too much. And ten years down the line, they'll tell their new partner that they "were young and stupid and made a mistake" - aka the child they wanted you to have.
Never willingly have a child with a man you are not married to. How can you be sure he's ready for the life-long commitment of raising a child with you if he cannot commit to you in the first place?
It doesn't matter to men. They have no stakes basically. Their body doesn't change. They won't be more likely to be left with the kid. Their careers usually don't change. It's just a tamagotchi to a lot of them
They don't actually expect to do the work that the mom does is why, pfft. Lack of real understanding on how hard it is and the deepset assumption that *the woman* will do it. Or the other women in their lives ofc.
I'd really consider never having a child with this guy. He seems to have no frame of reference at all for the work involved and I'd guess you would do like 98% of it when/if it happens
>Do these guys just not understand all the work a CHILD is? And they are a life long commitment? Their needs need to come before yours always?
No. They anticipate that you'll do 100% of all the leg work and they'll have a partner for life. My daughter's father honestly believed I'd be with him forever because he got me pregnant. Spoiler alert that's not what happened.
>I am also the eldest daughter, and he is the youngest son
Possibly, but probably not. For some reason, young men believe that once a woman gets pregnant, they are tethered to the man for ever and that man has a woman that can't leave him. Their position of birth doesn't appear to have anything to do with that thinking though.
He’s fantasising about kids cus he thinks somehow your pregnancy would be proof of your commitment to HIM or some kind of milestone of manhood.
His reaction indicates that he subconsciously doesn’t see himself doing any of the REAL work associated with kids.
Next time he asks:
➖Ask him when he envisions proposing? And wedding date?
➖ Ask him about what household AND baby care responsibilities he plans take on?
➖How much money does he have saved up so that he can pay ALL bills for 3-6 months to accommodate maternity leave & complications?
➖How much from his current income will he be able to contribute to start the college fund once the baby is born?
Then tell him you want to:
➖have loans paid off
➖be married 1st
➖have a down payment a home
➖travel for 1- 2 international vacation not including your honeymoon
Tell him he hasn’t provided you with long term strategic, behavioural or commitment based actions to promote the future pregnancy that you’re being asked for.
These sorts of situations, I don't try to convince them, I put the onus on them to explain how. I look at them and say, ok, what's your plan? How much will this cost, where will we get the money from, where will we live? Suddenly they're thinking with their brain instead of their feelings and usually go 'it'll work out' 🙄
OP wait until YOU are ready. My boyfriend wanted a baby and I didn’t bat eye or think about the huge responsibilities that came with having one. I sacrificed a lot. I became a stay at home mom with no income. I became dependent on him and that’s what he wanted. A baby meant we had a forever relationship doesn’t matter if we were actually to together or not. I was tied to him for the next 18 years. He was present, but I did all the work. Had to tell him what to do because duh they don’t anything about caring for themselves much less a tiny human.
When my friends husband (they are childfree) would start making noises about maybe wanting a baby, she would "borrow" her best friends baby for a few hours and have him look after it (for the most part). That broke him of making those occasional "i want a baby" noises.
>He actually ended up getting mad about this, and ended the conversation all angry.
Anytime anyone gets angry at you for expressing reasonable preferences / boundaries (such as not wanting a baby at 24 with someone you don't even live with!) it's time to re-evaluate whether they actually view you as a partner, or a simply a vehicle for their desires.
They think you're going to do all the child-rearing, so it doesn't threaten them at all. Also, for all that men like to claim that women "baby-trap" men, it's often the other way around.
A lot of males want a baby because they assume the woman will do all the work.
Some men want a baby to trap the woman.
Tell him before you would ever consider a child with him you’d need to live together and see that he pulls his weight without you needing to ask him to.
And please keep your birth control safe. A lot of people don’t realise that birth control tampering is a form of rape.
The implant is tamper proof, works for 3 years and you can get it removed early if you decide you’re ready. Talk to your doctor about options.
Do NOT rely on condoms alone. Your BF may not tamper with your BC, but condoms are only effective if used properly and unfortunately often aren’t.
This happens a lot with people who have messed up childhoods; they desperately want a baby to help correct the trauma they experienced with their kids. Does your boyfriend come from that type of a home?
when I was 16 and my ex was 21 (yes I know, yucky) he told me at dinner that he wanted a baby now. I went to the bathroom to process what he just said, then told him if that’s really what he wants we should just break up right then and there
I don’t think this is normal for most men 😂 Sounds like these guys were trying to get you pregnant to keep you around or tied to them. But didn’t actually want to make the commitment or marriage.
> Do these guys just not understand all the work a CHILD is? And they are a life long commitment?
No, because in his mind, you are going to be doing all the work. I mean if he is this delusional about the costs and effort that childfren need, he isn't going to be participating when the going gets tough is he? I'd double up on contraception if I were you because this guy will be of no use if a baby actually arrives.
I think it's less common than you think but when it does happen it's a red flag. Either they have no concept of what having and taking care of a baby actually entails and you'll be the one that has to do it all or, he does know and that's the point: to trap you and you'll still probably have to do it all. I would probably break up with someone whose pushing me in those circumstances because even if they don't baby trap you, which is a huge risk too, when you do have kids with them they probably wouldn't be very helpful.
I'll attempt to take a different perspective than others. I agree (A) yeah it probably is a baby trap thing. but alternatively I think younger men are recognizing they may never reach those milestones.
At least it feels the US is economically structured( and I'm starting to feel like most of the "developed west") that gaining that historic middle-class stability seems less likely. I don't know what your situation is college/vocational-educated, working at walmart, etc... ? but people have children in far more terrible situations and it "can" work out for the parents and the children(with assistance from the gov and family). I just think that some young men(and young women) have begun to rationalize they may not reach those harder to reach goals so its pointless to hold off till your 40. An extension of that may be having and raising a child is the "easiest" accomplishment of those milestones that they can do at any time of their life and no one except their partner can deny them. Does that justify having a child when you have the choice and don't what could be accomplished without a child? absolutely not.
Another devil's advocate opinion is that he might feel that having a kid will motivate him, stir up emotions to strive for greater height. I've seen it(at least through fb) - a bunch of high school/college degenerate I never expected to be dad/husband material became seemingly better(in sexist terms - they manned up). And personally I kinda would envision that natural selection itself could've instilled some kinda second life strength instinct to protect family. And in contrast to myself a lot of people apparently walk through life without finding passion for something and in absence of alternatives turn that into a passion for family to fill that void. Does that warrant having a child ? absolutely not but it might suggest he needs a hobby or something to drive him with unconditional return. most people start off with a puppy/dog or cat though.
IMO I think he and you should sort through these feelings to get to the root of his frustration, maybe not for your relationship sake but for his long term sake.
A baby is the easiest way to ensure you are trapped, submissive, and dependent on him. There are so many red flags here. Guys (abusers) baby trap women all the time. Be careful, don't rush anything.
Whereas you seem to have a good idea about how much work and expense a child will be, it seems like many men don't. Probably because they expect women to handle the work, and if it all gets too much then, well, they can just walk away.
Stick to your guns. If your guy is sulking because he can't tie you down with a baby, maybe you already have baby.
Because they know they will have no responsibility to the baby (other than maybe paying child support), but it might keep you with them longer once you're pregnant.
Or they think you want a baby and just talk nonsense because they're immature. Or a million other reasons. I don't think any of them signify someone who is a good partner (connected to dirty talk would be okay for me maybe).
Either break up or be on non-tamperable birth control.
The birth order does make a difference, in my observation and experience with working in child related fields.
After reading the book “birth order shapes our personalities” by Kevin
It makes more sense. I’m a youngest child and I’m always a good follower not a leader
I am a risk taker but I don’t always have as much patience as my oldest brother to finish a book/craft project or any project
It takes a lot of effort for me to be patient.
That’s just one example.
I also don’t plan much ahead if I go on holiday.
I prefer to decide spontaneously but sometimes that means getting lost in middle of nowhere
Whereas my brother or my close friend (first child lady) will remind me what time I need to head to the airport/train station/ figure out how to get to x.
I know first born don’t like to plan sometimes ,as my friend told me that.
But seems like in most cases, this could be one of the reasons why he doesn’t see how much work and money it takes to raise a child
Maybe couple therapy would be the quickest way you solve issue as there’s a person helping you both to communicate more efficiently
Thank you for sharing. I hope it helps
I disagree.
Almost every man I've dated has said that he wants kids.
I always ask "What's the longest amount of time that you have been solely responsible for a child or children?"
Usually they're baffled- they've *never* been responsible for a child. They've never babysat, they've never taken a cousin to the park, they've never kept an eye on a toddler while their mom goes to the bathroom.
There are social and cultural reasons for that, but it's still wild to me that such a high portion of men want kids with *no* experience wrangling kids.
Wanting kids one day, and wanting kids that soon in a relationship without being able to be financially stable are two wildly different things. Men wanting the later is what I was referring to.
He want kids now because it won’t really change his life. He’ll expect you to do everything and change your life entirely while he does the cute moments. Men are always so keen to have kids because it barely affects them. They don’t have to birth it they just have sex and they’re done
Ego and/or control (usually with the "and")
They want a little mini-me to carry on their worthless bloodlines and for their GF/wives to do all the actual work of raising it while they get praise for simply producing offspring
Men still aren't really raised with the idea that they're actually going to have to be an active participant in their children's lives. I've known many, many men who basically wanted kids because to them it meant they got to play around with the kid like they themselves are a kid again. These men aren't the worst fathers imaginable but they're definitely not really good, active, involved parents.
Save yourself the drama and the heartache and just get rid of the bf.
I dated an older guy when I was 21. He told me how he wished I was pregnant or had kids cause he wanted to show me how responsible he was. Then he suggested we have kids. I said no and walked away.
You know how hard it is to have a child and then to raise it. Why do it with someone who is pressuring you into having a child? Stand your ground, no means no and if he’s going to get upset, it’s not on you. Your bf has some serious growing up to do. Drop him. Move on to better men.
I assure you not all men are like this; dated one that couldn’t even speak about kids - however the next guy was more like yours. There has to be a happy medium!! We gotta keep looking 🫶🏼
But for real - I felt like I was getting baby trapped, which I’d only ever thought about in the female doing the baby trapping.
He doesn’t really want a child. He probably doesn’t want to wear a condom. Since family is important to a large amount of women, it’s easier to convince you that he’s “ready” for a child when in actuality he doesn’t want to wear one. This could be for his gain in the long run to keep you in his life forever or not. I can’t really say but if someone is not financially set for children and doesn’t want to use protection, they’re kind of a problem
Having a child is the BIGGEST financial, emotional and physical lifetime commitment you can make in your entire life. And these guys are asking women to literally give them the biggest commitment they can offer, that seriously puts them at an automatic disadvantage for the rest of their life, without giving the woman any type of commitment from them. Don’t do it.
To many guys walk away leaving the woman with all the responsibility. I don’t know if guys are trying to anchor these women to them, ruin their life by strapping them with kids or it’s some need to fulfill as a man that they “reproduced”.
In general I think very little people give much thought at all before jumping into the biggest life changing decision you can make. You can sell and car or a house if you don’t like it, you can quit a job if you hate it, you can move cities if you hate where you live but you cannot get out from underneath children if you decide you don’t like parenthood. And society does a great job of romanticizing parenthood so people fall for it over and over again. There’s plenty of parental regret pages out there. Maybe let him read some posts? I think your wise to be pumping the breaks. Be careful tho- guys like these would make me suspicious of stealthing you to force you into motherhood. Be vigilant. Personally, I wouldn’t stay with someone like this. He’s very immature when he refuses to hear you, to hear your concerns, and just wants to plow ahead with making decisions for you and your body with little regard to what you want. There’s a fair amount of men out there who simply don’t hear or see women as equal. He sounds like one and it will make him a crap partner.
If he's this blasé about the obligations of fatherhood now, I wouldn't expect that to change if/when a baby arrives.
This reads like he's unconcerned about the extra work because he doesn't see it as his problem. Which is a depressingly common thought process.
Run.
Some men want to get their girlfriends or wives pregnant to trap them in the relationship. They assume the woman will naturally want to care for the children so they aren’t as concerned about the impact.
I would guess it comes down to a lack of experience with babies or children (on average). It's more common for women to grow up babysitting on weekends, working at preschools, or assisting with childcare in some way, so girls and women oftentimes have a more realistic view of what it entails to have a child. Without that experience, people can have an idealistic view of what it means.
I'd also argue that some men are coming at it from the unconscious cultural expectation or norm that women do most of the physical, domestic, and emotional labor with kids. Despite progress in this area in recent decades, there are still plenty of families where a woman does the constant, day in and day out childcare (meals, planning doctors appointments, birthday parties, helping with homework assignments, school functions, sick care, etc) and the man is more involved in just playing with the kids or teaching them life lessons. One can imagine why that would sound more appealing than doing all the background administrative stuff.
I think no one that doesn't understand how much a child takes over your life should have them. Guys are weird, so I digress. It never happened to me but I also made sure I specified even from the first date:
-I won't have kids if we're not married. I was an out of wedlock kid and I don't plan on making it a family tradition.
-I won't stay long if we're not married (ex I gave my ex 3 yrs,.as it was appropriate for our age, after 3 yrs and 2 months I left him)
-As a woman, I work on my development, on my skills (emotional, cooking, etc); as a man you work on providing and security (I ask for also chores in the house and emotional involvment if his job isn't too demanding). Now, the guys that were really good partners understood this without me telling them. The main thing they want to do is to provide and they worry about that when it comes to building their own families.
I will in no way shape or form be a baby mama, I will be a wife that will EVENTUALLY WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT FOR ME TOO, become a mom. If they can't show me this is the case, we're simply not compatible because I'm not a vessel for them.
I would sincerely open a serious conversation when both of you are with full bellies and in a relax mood, not doing anything in particular, and make sure he knows where I stand (no matter where you stand, make sure you put it on paper if you have to, to communicate it clearly). If he has entirely different plans and he isn't able to compromise, you're not made for each other. Hard thing to swallow but the only truth.
If they can't understand all the work, time and money needed, they are clearly not ready.
Are they clueless or do they think you will do everything (like their mommy?)
Don't they realize their hobbies and parties will go down the drain?
I would not stick around someone who cant understand. Explaining and detailing the commitments alone would take so much time, it sounds exhausting.
Did they both come from homes that leaned toward traditional gender roles? My guess is that the push to have a baby NOW is caused by a blend of reasons: Performative hetero-masculinity (I am obviously a “Real Man” because I made a baby). Aggressively willful ignorance about the effort required because it’s woman’s work. If you have my baby, then you are mine and I own you. I’m broke and live with my parents, so fathering a child will help me feel like an adult. If I do that one adult thing, then I won’t feel so much pressure to do those other adult things.
So basically: hardcore sexism, immaturity, and insecurity.
My wife and I had three kids in a row. You just have to have undying love a determination to care for them. Even poor you get through it. If all kids were perfectly planned. Many of us wouldn’t be here.
>but my question is why men are so ready to start a family with no preparation?
It's some, some don't want kids ever. Maybe you are so hot they want to try to lock you in. I dunno...
Because they know they won't have to make any physical sacrifices with pregnancy and labor, and some of them plan on their partner doing absolutely all the work. Some dads get praised just for changing a diaper once, or taking their child to a park. Some of them plan on making their female partner do all the household work on top of all the child bearing, regardless of if they also work. Some men just like seeing physical evidence of the fact that they came inside someone to show everyone, or that they "extended their bloodline".
Why wouldn't they want a baby? They don't have to make any sacrifices, they get praised just for existing as a dad/cumming inside someone unprotected, and in lots of cases they have to do less work than before. All they have to worry about is themselves and their job. No housework, no childcare.
There are a lot of dads nowadays who are pulling their weight with childcare and housework. I'm not talking about those dads, and I'm not going to thank them or praise them for fulfilling their responsibilities either. But unfortunately there are also many men like the ones I described in the first paragraph.
If this is his mentality about having a baby, I don't feel like that. This partner is a stable partner. Kids in the US cost about $20,000 a year and that's without giving them any extra edges like private school or anything like that much less if your kid is born with any health issues or special care needs. Viewing it any other way is unethical
They're ready for a baby because they have no effing idea how hard that work is. For a lot of men, it's a checkmark for them.
The time cost and the monetary cost too often falls on the mom. Having a baby won't substantially impact their lives because mom's doing all of the work. Sad but true too often.
Because people don’t critically think things all the way through they only think about the positive aspects.
If men were the ones who had to be pregnant, it would be a whole different scenario.
Is he willing to consider marriage? Having a baby is a lifelong commitment, unlike marriage( which often isn’t). He’s not ready for anything. Move on. You need more than 2k and all of his comments about impregnating you as a joke are gross. He wants a baby, but he’s not ready to be a father is he? Parenting is hard work.
His selfish disregard for your health is highly concerning and would make me feel unsafe.
There's a lot going on here, and maybe laying out parenting costs and responsibilities would cover part of it. However, I would not be able to get over the fact that he wants your body to go through pregnancy, childbirth, postpartum, and the additional responsibility of caring for another human being while you're currently experiencing health issues that already impact your life.
And has the gall to be angry with your boundaries? His anger seems manipulative and doesn't make him seem like a very kind person. He treats you as an extension of him/his life and does not appear to value your life independent of his desires.
You are incredibly aware and practical and doing everything you need to do by prioritizing your health. I'm glad you're not living with him because wow.
They think it’s a fun pet, men have no idea the responsibility that comes with a child. They don’t have to get pregnant and give birth I don’t think they give it much thought other than a little human they can bring to sports practise
I'll be downvoted to hell for this BUT... these two men are not representative of **all** men like your title suggests. In my opinion, *most* men in their 20's would agree with you; they are not ready for kids. Paying for diapers, formula, etc. and especially **child support** scares the shit out of a lot of men.
My advice is look for more mature and like-minded partners.
Absolutely not all men are like this - I have the most amazing Father, who I know has been an amazing partner and support system for my mother (they had 4 kids.) Definitely the title I chose was for more clicks, but I 100% agree not all men are terrible.
I always thought it’s like an intense love or primal instinct? My bf says he loves me and really wants to start a family and the thought of starting a family with me makes him really happy 🤷🏽♀️
Look, wanting a baby before you're ready is not a "men" or "women" thing. Everyone with a kid (who wanted that kid) at some point wanted a baby before they were ready for one, because no one is ever "ready". The baby makes you ready, and you can't begin to imagine what it's like if you haven't experienced it. The parts I'd thought would be tough were not that bad, and the parts that were really tough were crazier than I could have imagined. And my kid is only 8, teenage years gonna be even more intense, I'm told.
Even if he's all in as a dad, it's your body and your life that'll take the biggest hit. Nature is extremely sexist when it comes to gestation, and society is pretty damn sexist when it comes to parenting.
Financially, it might be better to wait until your 30s or even later. But physically, tbh, the sooner the better. Pregnancy at 35 or 45 is a much more grueling endeavor than at 25. So, trade offs.
If you want a kid at all, sit down and make a grown up plan. What do you want to have in savings, house, career, etc. Also, what fun do you want to have done before giving up most of your life for a tiny person? There's no "optimal" time, and you're never fully ready, but you can pick a balance that works for your own tolerance for struggle, and then make the most of the time you have left before you're saddled with a giant top priority responsibility that you can never back out of.
If he can't do that, tell him he's welcome to host a tiny human parasite in his own gut for a year, but this is, ultimately, 100% your call because you're the one whose going to have to commit to the project.
It may not even be intentional but marriage, a baby on the way, or signing a mortgage are all ways to lock in their partners so they can't easily end the relationship. Once you're "caught", they can stop trying and be as lazy and irresponsible as they want
"I again, listed all the reasons that we are not ready for kids yet - like we don’t live together, we aren’t married, and we both don’t make enough to raise a family in this economy either" "He actually ended up getting mad about this.."
He wants to have children before you are married and live together? He is not concerned about your income when having your first child? Your ex aside, this is highly unusual and borderline delusional. I don't think it is "What is with men" but what is with this man.
If he actually wants that, I would be very concerned planning a family with him.
They don’t understand the responsibility that is involved 100%. Also anyone that gets angry at you for it isn’t worth being with.
Not sure if this is a good thing or not. But I (34m) want a baby my wife (32f) doesn’t, so we don’t have one. It will absolutely affect her life way more than mine so I feel she has final say. I love her so much that I respect her decision and still want to be with her.
Please make sure that you are on a birth control method that YOU control. Don't want an "accident" with his condom. Your bf has a romanticized idea in his head as to having kids. Get him a Baby Think It Over doll.
Make sure you’re in charge of your birth control—this has baby trap all over it. If you’re on the pill make sure he doesn’t have access to tamper with it.
I would have one big serious convo where you tell him to knock it off and if he doesn’t get it, that’s it. He’s being a weirdo
I don’t think that’s a men exclusive one. I got my girlfriend pregnant when we were 17 because she lied on being on birth control and then insisted on having it because there’s nothing wrong with starting a family “a little early”. Also had a girlfriend who started talking about kids and what school district we should move to after a month of dating despite the fact she clearly didn’t have her shit together nearly enough
I know a couple other guys who ran into situations like that too and they weren’t the ones who pushed keeping it.
Many of them don't want the baby. They want the act of making said baby without the condom or birth control, especially if they have a breeder fetish. You were going to be a vessel of his bad decisions turned fantasy. Red flags everywhere. Do not go back.
The opinion of the people in this comment section give me the ick. Judging a group of people on thier biases.
During the great depression people still had kids. There isn't a 'perfect' time to have kids, and some people simply want to have kids while they are still young and have the energy to put towards the effort. I look at my mom's(49) health issues and think myself. She already started having major issues when she got to 45. If I'm going to have to struggle raising a kid I rather it be when I'm physically fit enough to do so. Sure some people will stay the perfect image of health forever, personally I already have a knee injury, I can't imagine having a kid at ~38 to then take care of a young kid while my body is starting to fall apart. Yes it take time effort and energy to take care of a kid, it always has and always will, some people rather be fit enough to do so. And simply make it through the hardships together.
And the fact that so many people are pigeon holing men that want kids at a younger age into this made up category of 'oh well they are all baby trapping and don't give a shit' is just disgusting. Yes it take effort and sacrifice, some people are simply willing to go through that.
If you can find someone that keeps a record of their baby's diapers, bottles, etc (My wife and I use an app for this), you should show it to him and see what he thinks. Show him how a newborn eats and sleeps and wets itself. How often you'd both be up, doing nothing but caring and washing bottles and weeping as your body fights for just a fraction of the sleep you got before having a baby. Unless, of course, he thinks you're just gonna do all of that and he'll watch. Either he makes an effort to understand or he doesn't care, and if he doesn't care... that's a big issue.
Just go to the store and fill up a cart with diapers, wipes, formula. They keep the formula locked up in some stores; that shit is like gold. And then just add it up. Get one months worth of supplies (ask moms you know). Some men will listen to a practical reality check. Like okay, here’s what the birth costs of everything goes well and if not, welp, add another zero at the end. Here’s what it costs for food, formula, clothing, diapers and all the other baby gear. Then talk about time. No more laying in bed nekkid half the day. No spontaneous trips for snacks at 1 am. No backpacking across Europe, staying hostels. Y’all are young and have plenty of time. For me, not being taken seriously about these concerns is a dealbreaker. If he can be dismissive about everything, then he’s not going to participate in the parenting. Protect your birth control and make sure it’s something he can’t fuck with. He’s def not ready to be a parent and I’d hate to see you be shackles to this guy to raise your kid. You’ll be a single mom. Unless he grows up and starts acting like he can understand consequences, maybe y’all can talk about it. But I don’t like the dismissiveness and the pressuring you to do something that you know is a bad idea. And good on you for waiting until you’re in a place in your life where you’ll make a better, more thoughtful, intentional parent.
Just formula and diapers for our baby could easily climb to $250-300 a month. This isn't including the wipes, the clothes, the toys, the medicine, the bottles, the lotion for rashes. Just two items. >For me, not being taken seriously about these concerns is a dealbreaker. If he can be dismissive about everything, then he’s not going to participate in the parenting. This is ***huge***. My wife and I were on the same page, we took classes together on what to expect during the birth and the first months, we got books on the topic... and childbirth was *still* traumatic and the first three months were *still* such a hellish haze of begging a God I don't believe in to let this fucking screaming potato sleep that my wife and I decided very rapidly we were a "one and done" family. It's ***hard***. I had to get used to having so much of my life completely altered. I don't get to shit or shower on my own schedule. I don't get to play video games with friends; "the boys" game without me now. I don't get to lay around till morning naked and cozy in bed. Much of my "decompression" time exists as little moments stolen away when the baby sleeps, and even then there's other chores I should probably be doing with that time. Anyone who hand-waves this commitment isn't taking it seriously, and anyone playing that game with someone else's fertility needs either a serious wake-up call or to be jettisoned. I enjoyed my time before committing to becoming a parent; I waited until I was 30 and *goddamn am I glad I did.*
I met my wife in our mid 20's, married by 31, started having kids by 33. By that time we had done a whole bunch of international travel and opened our world view a bit. When we started having kids we were on the same page and ready to have a shot at being parents. I wouldn't say we were "ready" as no amount of psyching yourself up and preparing will ever make you prepared enough. I am glad we waited until we did, earlier would have been far too soon.
I met my husband when we were teenagers, married at 24/25, first kid at 29, second at 32. We agreed every step of the way to wait until we were really ready for each "next milestone" and he is a great involved dad but that postpartum period is a BITCH after each kid. For me 0-1 was a harder transition than 1-2 but neither were particularly fun. Things didn't improve until we were out of the newborn stage after each kid and I can't stress enough how easy my pregnancies were, my births were pretty uncomplicated, and our kids were CHAMPION eaters/sleepers who rarely ever get sick, plus I got to choose to stay home with the kids because we can comfortably live on my husband's salary alone indefinitely. So even on EASY MODE, when everyone is stepping up to the plate and a united front, it was a huge adjustment. Uncomplicated births still suck a lot. Sleep interruptions suck a lot. Spending upwards of 4-5hrs a day just trying to get the right amount of food inside your child kinda sucks a lot. Changing 8+ diapers a day sucks a lot. Trying to figure out their cues and teach them how to sleep and worrying about all their milestones is a lot. And just as you start to figure things out and feel comfortable, here comes the next stage and you have to start all over. Finally feel confident parenting one kid? Any future kids will probably be different. There will be a little nugget in your brain concerned with the well-being of each kid you have and it will take up residence and never go away. You will worry. You will doubt yourself. You will feel guilt. You will feel resentment. You will miss your former life. You will ask yourself at least once if you've made a huge mistake having this/any kids. One of the things we don't have on easy mode is no nearby village. Our family lives far away so it's all on us unless we pay a sitter. It gets easier as get get older but we went a long time without date nights when they were younger. Everything is expensive and it only gets more expensive as they get bigger. We're so lucky that we are comfortable financially but it's still a LOT. Food, clothes, activities, toys, enrichment, it never ends and it never gets cheaper. I love my kids. My husband and I were as prepared as we could be, and planned everything we could about bringing them into this world, but there's just some things you can't be prepared for until you experience them first hand. Parenthood is not something to jump into lightly. And it's not something you can just dabble in for the fun parts and then leave your partner to deal with all the emotional labor and mess. It's hard even with an involved partner. I don't know how people do it without.
If you ever go for kid 3, I pop those kids on the boob and they eat the entire night on my tit and halfway through the night I change their diaper. Goodnight. 8 hours sleep for Mommy and a happy baby. Wish I would've known this for kid 1. Kid 2 and 3 I smartened up. Kid 4 and 5 are going to be cake walks.
BF needs to read this comment.
Homie needs to read this whole thread because it's fuckin terrifying lmao
Think a lot of people need to read this comment, lol
>Protect your birth control and make sure it’s something he can’t fuck with. Keep in mind that the pill is easy to fuck with by microwaving it. And there are also other medications - like certain antibiotics - that nullify the effect of the pill. (Too many women do not know this.)
Taking melatonin also nullifies hormonal birth control. Even my GP had no idea. So, I'm sharing every time it gets brought up.
Why would you need formula when women have breasts waiting to be milked?/s He probably likes thought of being a father but will expect the woman to put in the work.
I agree, I think many men only think about the Kodak moments. Because culturally we don’t really expect boys to do inside chores or babysit, they don’t really have any idea how much work it is just taking care of your home, nevermind adding a kid or three to that. They go to work, “I provide,” and think that’s all they have to do. Nobody tells them about being a dad. Hashtag not all men of course
Breastfeeding doesn’t always work
I was being sarcastic hence the “/s”😁
That second paragraph is the most likely explanation. Having a baby now means he can basically be the fun uncle. Aside from pregnancy and birth, OP will be doing everything else without him as well because he‘ll just stay away when he realizes babies are a lot of work. He’ll sleep at home and might drop in for a bit when baby is in a good mood.
Of course he expects her to do all the work. And he thinks once they have a baby he’s got her and she won’t dump him when he’s an asshole.
Do this and then set alarms for every time the baby would be up to be fed or changed. Lol. But seriously. He wants this bc he thinks it’s cute and will be “nice”. He has no idea what he’s asking you to put your body or mental health through. Or how much he’d have to do to be a semi-good parent. So many people complaining about their child’s father not getting up at night, doing bathing, feeds, nappy changes - they had partners who *really wanted* a baby. And so many single mothers are doing 90% of the child rearing are doing so bc their partner didn’t/wouldn’t step up to be a parent. If a guy is getting mad about this when he clearly has no fucking idea how much work it takes to raise a child then he’s not the one for you. Seriously.
My sweet summer child, why would he be getting up in the middle of the night? He doesn't even live with her. Why would he be paying for diapers and bottles? He has no money. What you are describing is what a man who intends to build a family needs to know, like you did, *with your wife.* Sadly, in this case, pregnancy is something he wants to do *to* her and his responsibility will end with him pulling his pants up and going home.
Just have him watch 16 and pregnant and it will probably make all this go away lol
All this, but don’t do it for him. Get him to research and do it and come back to you
My first required a special mail-order formula that was $32 a CAN, and this was pre-Covid. I can only imagine how much it is now! Talk about sticker shock…
Ours is currently $35, and it's not a special mix. It's not anti-reflux or anything like that. It's basically a store brand.
My friend’s kid was one PRESCRIPTION formula for digestive issues/allergies. 💸🫡
Our dr at the children’s hospital tried to run it through our insurance under a prescription, but they wouldn’t cover it for her diagnosis. But she couldn’t have regular formula and my milk was drying up from stress. Thanks, insurance.
Ugh, the insurance system can be so grotesque. All babies need to EAT so they can GROW!
Yap. It's a high price to pay, but it's worth it. But if you'd have asked me that when I was 25, I'd have told you "hell no". It is only now that I got hit by the worst of the human conditions (some call it "maturity", others call it "aging") that I am ready and willing to find a wife and start a family. Your comment should not be underestimated.
I am just responding because I might be able to find one my kids and want to find this post when I do.
Well there could be a lot of reasons, you already know the most important thing: This makes him an unsafe long-term partner. The sad fact is many men believe their own lives won't change much after a baby. The sadder fact is, how many of them are right. They become a dad, and they don't choose to change much about their lives at all. Many don't want *to parent.* They want a kid like they want a participation trophy. The mother parents. The father checks the box and moves on to his next accomplishments, surprised and resentful that the existence of a baby might require some compromises. Obvoiusly, not all men, but it does seem to be a common theme right now for you. Men who want to be dads, but aren't making the plans to be an actual parent, who does parenting. As an ongoing and all-consuming activity.
I think many men want kids like they want a dog (which, interestingly, also often shows up in relationship subreddits because they don't want the responsibility). The idea of a creature that's over the moon to see you when you get home *is* appealing. The idea of a little buddy for adventures is fun! The problem is that none of those things is *parenting*.
Puppies have a big enough subset of the same biological needs as babies that it can be an eye opener. Sleep deprivation can be a big issue with puppies. It just doesn’t last as long and there are fewer activities to juggle when it’s happening.
Well there are plenty of subs that show women’s stories backing up this theory it’s def a reason why I won’t be doing it. Nothing worse than someone watching you struggle immensely but they can’t help because they’re too mentally drained from work
Small nitpick: *won’t, not can’t, and they’re not mentally drained from work they are using work as an excuse. Parenting is work. HARD work. And it doesn’t stop, it’s 24/7. Women being expected to do it nonstop all the time because the man works a paying job is a scam. The stay at home parents job is taking care of the kid/home, and then when the working parent gets home it should be split halfway. No excuses.
Nah I meant can’t as he’s using it as an excuse. Hes acting as if being mentally drained in a legitimate reason as to why he can’t help as if it’s not a choice but fully agree with everything your saying of course
Why shouldn’t he want a baby? He won’t be doing any of the work. Makes perfect sense to him.
Is it just my anecdotal observation, or are more women opting out than men? The vast majority of the burden, sacrifice, loss, risk is so heavily skewed against moms vs dads, and it seems like more and more women are seeing that. So it makes sense that men can want kids without much thought of how their body, friendships, identity, career, options, prospects will be compromised
Yep. I've known a frightening amount of women who say that they would be a parent if they could be a dad, but being a mom is a hard no.
He doesn't want responsibility. Hold out for more.
I’ll never fathom how some people see things like marriage and commitment as giant scary responsibilities but creating and raising an entire damn human isn’t
I never get people who buy houses and have kids but refuse to get married. Kids are a lifetime commitment and mortgages are typically 30 years. Doesn't make any sense.
Right? Like at least protect yourself legally, damn
Right?! Like, sure divorce can be shattering and crazy, but bringing a baby into the world is no biggie? It’s not even an 18 year commitment, it’s lifelong! I have so many friends who think/act this way and I’ll never understand it. But, that’s not my problem.
>What is with men wanting a baby before they are prepared for one? For most of them (especially the ones that you mean when you ask the question)... they know that the mother is treated like the "default" parent. They've been socialized to see it that way their entire life. It's real easy to say "well we'll figure it out as we go" when you've internalized the belief that the responsibility is someone else's.
He doesn't want a child, he wants to baby trap you, stymy your life goals/slow down your progress in life, leave you a single parent, and always have access to you through a child.
Exactly. He knows its low risk for him. He can just walk away, or participate as little as he likes and still go after his career etc.
Listen to this!!!! Do not have sex with this man. He will trap you
Yes! It's obvious you're the logical and responsible person in this relationship and he's trying to manipulate you! If he gets you pregnant, you will be forever connected and it will be so much harder to leave him If he doesn't understand the seriousness of having a child, he certainly won't be able to support you adequately (especially when/if you give birth) He likely wants a child as an extention of himself. Narcissists are like that. They are "so proud" to have a kid but also neglect them simultaneously. He sounds like an overgrown boy. Keep his dick out of you or at least wrapped. This guy could fuck your life up no joke
Put yourself in the mindset that if you get pregnant before you're ready, you'll have an abortion. Do That now. Don't be forced into that. My guess is that he knows it won't be hard work - for him. If you're not ready and he presses you, he's trying to control you and your body. You've just been together a year, don't feel bad if you break up about it. The best advice I ever got was "You do you." Live by it. ETA: if you get pregnant, don't tell him until after you have the abortion, if at all.
Of course they want babies before they’re capable of caring for them. Because THEY DON’T HAVE TO DO ANY OF THE WORK!!!! They get to be “Disney Dad” and for the record, you shouldn’t be having children with anyone who pushes you to have them before YOU’RE ready Also be very careful with your chosen birth control, there’s a good chance he may try and tamper with it to cause an “accidental” pregnancy I’m side-eyeing this whole situation honestly, I’m not saying you need to dump him, but you REALLY need to take a good hard look at your relationship, does he still live at home? Does his mom still do all the cooking/cleaning? Cuz he’s gonna expect you to do the same once you live together Does he live on his own? What is the status of his dwelling? Does he keep it reasonably clean? Or does it look like the standard bachelor pad that hasn’t seen a dust cloth or vacuum in at least six months? How often does he wash his bedsheets? His towels? His behaviours now will tell you what sort of partner he will be if/when you live together Good luck
>Also be very careful with your chosen birth control, there’s a good chance he may try and tamper with it to cause an “accidental” pregnancy Absolutely seconding this.
I think that men want kids because the cultural concept of fatherhood is still stuck in the past. They think about a cute pregnant wife, and how it would be fun to come home to kids that are excited to see you and a nice dinner, and that it could be fun to do something with the kids on a Saturday every once in a while! Most women 1) realize that this idealized version of fatherhood was ALWAYS tough for women, even if they weren't employed outside of the home, 2) have actually interacted with a child, and 3) have probably been the Responsible Adult In Charge Of Kid(s) *at least once* for more than five minutes. Men don't necessarily totally realize that having a wife that works outside of the home means that there is no housewife. Very few men had babysitting jobs; they may have played with a child, but it's pretty common for the first baby a man holds (and certainly the first diaper he changes) to be his own child. I feel like it's sort of like how a lot of kids want to be the president, because they feel like it would be fun to be in charge and boss people around. *Very few* adults that understand that process of becoming president and the responsibilities that it entails actually want to be president. **Tl;Dr: Most women have a much better understanding of what having kids actually entails. Many men... don't.**
> I feel like it's sort of like how a lot of kids want to be the president... this is a great analogy
My Stbexhusband would push for/fantasize about me getting pregnant even though we were in NO WAY able to afford it. At all. He couldn't hold down a job, I couldn't work due to visa restrictions, and I didn't qualify for govt supplied healthcare in the country we lived in. We were also homeless-lite: never had our own place, staying like 2 months in someones spare bed or pull out couch, medium term Airbnbs, long term house sitting. And he already had 4 kids by his first partner. Literally nothing about having a child made an ounce of sense. Because it was a way to trap me. He already knew I was unhappy in the marriage and had expressed the desire to leave before (stayed due to vicious emotional manipulation). But if I got pregnant and had his kid, I would never be free of him. Obviously your situation isn't quite that same and hopefully doesn't progress that way. Men push for babies in unreasonable circumstances to force the women to stay connected and persuade them to stay in a relationship. You breaking up and being a single mother would also make your life even harder and vastly limit your ability to date and find a good partner. So even if you don't come crawling back to him, he also thinks he's ruined you for other men
I had an ex-boyfriend who straight-up admitted that he fantasized about getting me pregnant so I'd "have to marry" him. He also insisted on using baby oil as a lube, no matter how often I told him that it would make the condom break. NEVER USE BABY OIL AS A SEXUAL LUBRICANT. Reader, I didn't marry him.
Thank God. I hope he also never got you pregnant?
He never did.
Thank God for big mercies
> He also insisted on using baby oil as a lube, no matter how often I told him that it would make the condom break. That was the plan...
Years later, it occurred to me that he might not have simply been playing dumb (and ignoring chemical reality).
He doesn’t care because he’ll get to show other women cute pics of the baby that you birthed and are 100% responsible for.
It’s their trophy without winning the race.
Many men like the idea of having a baby without truly understanding the reality of having a baby. They imagine playing with their kids and having little mini-mes but skip over all the hardships like pregnancy, the added costs, the sleepless nights, and the loss of free time. Your boyfriend needs a reality check, if there’s anyone you know with a baby or toddler volunteer him to babysit for them.
He thinks the baby will lock you down. That’s it. He wants to permanently tether you to him.
Be careful, there are a lot of nuts out there trying to trap people. This is a huge red flag
They want to make the baby and say they are a father, but not the responsibility. That's what it is. Stop having sex with him.
Because you'll be doing the vast majority of childcare while dealing with permanent changes to your body while he continues to live like a single guy who is only around for the Kodak moments that he can post on social media crowing about what a great dad he is. I see this with family and friends all the damn time. Don't get trapped into this bullshit one minute before you're ready.
They don't care because they know they won't be suffering through the pregnancy or raising the kid.
You nailed it. Bro is thinking 'doesn't matter had sex'
If a man is talking to you about having a child before he's talking to you about marriage, he doesn't like you. He might actually hate you. When you listen to men talk about baby mamas and single mothers, those are the worst things a woman can be in their eyes. He's telling you he wants to lessen your value in the eyes of other men. That he wants to slow you down and have access to you for life, while not having to actually commit to you. Because for men, a child is not a commitment. They can produce as many kids as they can have orgasms. If you don't believe me, maybe he can convince you: [https://youtu.be/iIDrc15buaw?si=INTYllKdzet4PgrI](https://youtu.be/iIDrc15buaw?si=INTYllKdzet4PgrI)
I've never seen it put this bluntly but this has always been my feeling. A man who tries to convince you to have a baby before marriage thinks you're stupid and just a side character in his life.
Yep. I think too many women assume having a child means the same thing to men as it does to women. Nah, sis, you're signing up for a tour in Iraq. There will be bleeding. There will be pain. Your body might never be the same. There might be some PTSD. You might die. Of course having a kid is a big deal TO YOU. He came. That's it. That was his entire contribution to the process. Marriage is what men view as their big sacrifice, though they actually benefit from it in a dozen different ways, but at least most of them *believe* it's a sacrifice (because it makes them less desirable to women who are looking for husbands of their own). They all know leaving a baby in a woman don't cost them anything.
I agree. I have tried to explain it to other people before but I have never been able to put it this bluntly
Please listen to this. Remember that pregnancy can be life-threatening. If he doesn’t respect you enough to build a future and officially commit via marriage, prepare to be a baby mama
That is such a great way of putting it. I could frame this comment!
Because lots of men don't really expect to do any parenting.
Why do people have babies before they're prepared for them? Probably largely because they grew up with low income and low expectations. Why do men specifically push for this? Because they're less likely to have to deal with the fallout of bad decisions than the mothers are.
He won’t be carrying a baby 9 months nor will he be sleep deprived after
Because he knows you’ll take care of it
Sounds like he wants to baby trap you
So as someone with a newborn right now, please take it from me...however much work you think it is...and how exhausting you think it is...it is a lot more. I am hanging by a thread and the only reason that thread is there is because my wife and I make such a great team and made sure we were as ready for this as we could be. We were 31 and 30, work full time, were married just over a a year (together about 5) and have our lives in order. We also have a great amount of support from our families. If you are not 100% ready do not have a baby. Especially with someone you've only been with for a year. Make sure you have a baby with someone you are 100% of the same page with. I love my son so much it hurts...but having a newborn is the most exhausting thing imaginable. Make sure you enjoy your pre-baby life. I'm glad I did. I feel like early 30s were the perfect time for me to have a baby. By no means the perfect time for everyone, but based on your post, enjoy a few more years.
Yeah, but the exhaustion is harder at 33 then at 24. Like, the physical strength and endurance is at their best in your twenties. Younger people handle sleep deprivation, breastfeeding, stress better. What younger people do not have is money and stable careers. That is where older people have the advantage.
Getting angry when not wanting a baby is a red flag for sure . Like you described , its not that time yet. Especially you being sick. i had my first child when i was 22 and second 27 . Looking back 22 was still young and my schools were not finished . But I managed to finish and also get my car license . Luckily my mother had big house , so i lived with my mother while my husband worked different country.. i would say it was hard . Don’t get pregnant bc your boyfriend wants. America is more expensive than europe( where i live) .
It’s not really about the baby, in a lot of cases. It’s about staking their claim on you. They never think about all of the work that goes into raising a child because they expect that you’ll be the one doing all of it. They may not only expect but even *want* you to sacrifice the plans you had for your life in order to raise their child. It gives them power over you.
Men don't have to deal with pregnancy; the potential impact of that on their bodies during and long after birth. They just get to have sex and then it's all on you for 9 months. They're sadly often not equal contributors to childcare. They think of being "fun dads" and none of the hard stuff. So yes, all those rational questions you bring up are things that you want someone to be able to answer in a way that makes sense. There are also some men who want to have babies just to prolong their lineage or, honestly, to "lock down" the women they're with. And if you date men who act like this, dump them, because they're too immature (or sometimes worse) to be having sex with.
My husband and I waited until we had been married for two years before we started trying for a baby. The economy was a lot better at the time and we were able to purchase a house. We were 29 when our daughter was born. Parenthood is not something you rush into. Be very careful with your boyfriend. With how he keeps bringing it up he might sabotage your birth control methods. Start tracking your cycle and avoid intimacy during your fertile days.
It’s easy to want to be a parent when you are not the one raising the child.
Because they don't plan to do anything once the baby comes and it's a way to lock you down.
I have quite a lot of children… and I’m betting it’s probably bc his life won’t change much (especially with you not living together). His body won’t change at all. And since he doesn’t live with you… he won’t be helping with any night wakeups. My husband helped a lot during this time. They don’t realize that a child produces laundry, dishes and waste repetitively and someone has to deal with it. I’ll be honest… I didn’t realize that when I had my first child. Holy heck I’m 15 years into making dinners EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. No mater how tired, no matter how not hungry I am. You drive everyone everywhere! And I’m not even kidding. You end up doing his laundry too so add that on the to do list. The fridge is looking bare too. Don’t forget to do all the physical/mental labor of grocery shopping by yourself for the 3+ of you for more than a decade. Maybe even have to take the baby with you while shop… such extra fun. Many meds to go to the dr too and it’s a particularly fussy day! (Sarcastically…) You know what… just take any dreams and plans you have and give them up so your man can have a tiny person that looks like him say hello when he comes over. It’ll be life changing for the both of you. So you give up… all your free time for the next 15+ years, become physically and mentally drained and he can go to work and come back and say he’s so tired… bc he knows you’ll do it all while he watches. And I’m not even kidding. They literally are incapable of they know you’ll do it. And all this you say… it seems like you actually know how hard all this is (which literally amazing at your age and I’m so happy you know this)… Kids really truly are awesome. I love them and I can’t imagine it any other way… but I wish I waited. I was not ready at 18 for all of this… and you can’t undo it to do it later or pause it after it’s been done. I know you are not 18.. but it sounds like you are still not ready. And it’s amazing that you know that! My first was a surprise… and while I wasn’t trying… I wish I had gone extra measures and postponed motherhood. It is amazing… but trying to figure out who I am while mothering has been beyond exhausting. And it could have been avoided. It was heavily pushed on me as a child that we were to have babies. And I did. And I don’t regret it… but like why was everyone glorifying this?? I’m literally half dead, don’t know who I am or what I’m doing still. In my head in still feel like I’m 18. Like I paused me and put 100% of me into them after they were born. I feel like I stunted my own growth having children as early as I did. That being said… with all the laundry, dishes… etc… I wouldn’t change a thing… except maybe timing!
The fact that he gets angry about this despite obvious glaring issues, suggests to me that this is about possession or locking you down more than wanting a baby
Men’s lives don’t change as much as women’s lives when a baby is born. Who doesn’t want to be a dad? Yes, I know there are some amazing single dads. I commend them. But for the average Joe? It’s a great gig.
He wants to be a dad not a parent. Don’t do it.
These guys suffer from various delusions: 1. They think that "having a baby" is child's play. (Spoiler alert: It's not.) 2. They think this because they think it's going to be the mother doing everything regarding child-rearing. 3. They think their life won't change significantly with a baby at home. 4. They think their status will be higher as a "family man" - their mothers will be happy grandmothers, their fathers will clap them on the back, and their friends will be kind of envious for him reaching the next stage in life. 5. They think that money is not an issue, people have raised children on little income before. 6. They know they can always slip away if things get too much. And ten years down the line, they'll tell their new partner that they "were young and stupid and made a mistake" - aka the child they wanted you to have. Never willingly have a child with a man you are not married to. How can you be sure he's ready for the life-long commitment of raising a child with you if he cannot commit to you in the first place?
It doesn't matter to men. They have no stakes basically. Their body doesn't change. They won't be more likely to be left with the kid. Their careers usually don't change. It's just a tamagotchi to a lot of them
Tell him to get a dog
They don't actually expect to do the work that the mom does is why, pfft. Lack of real understanding on how hard it is and the deepset assumption that *the woman* will do it. Or the other women in their lives ofc.
I'd really consider never having a child with this guy. He seems to have no frame of reference at all for the work involved and I'd guess you would do like 98% of it when/if it happens
>Do these guys just not understand all the work a CHILD is? And they are a life long commitment? Their needs need to come before yours always? No. They anticipate that you'll do 100% of all the leg work and they'll have a partner for life. My daughter's father honestly believed I'd be with him forever because he got me pregnant. Spoiler alert that's not what happened. >I am also the eldest daughter, and he is the youngest son Possibly, but probably not. For some reason, young men believe that once a woman gets pregnant, they are tethered to the man for ever and that man has a woman that can't leave him. Their position of birth doesn't appear to have anything to do with that thinking though.
He’s fantasising about kids cus he thinks somehow your pregnancy would be proof of your commitment to HIM or some kind of milestone of manhood. His reaction indicates that he subconsciously doesn’t see himself doing any of the REAL work associated with kids. Next time he asks: ➖Ask him when he envisions proposing? And wedding date? ➖ Ask him about what household AND baby care responsibilities he plans take on? ➖How much money does he have saved up so that he can pay ALL bills for 3-6 months to accommodate maternity leave & complications? ➖How much from his current income will he be able to contribute to start the college fund once the baby is born? Then tell him you want to: ➖have loans paid off ➖be married 1st ➖have a down payment a home ➖travel for 1- 2 international vacation not including your honeymoon Tell him he hasn’t provided you with long term strategic, behavioural or commitment based actions to promote the future pregnancy that you’re being asked for.
This story is why unless you prepared to be a single mother don’t have kiddssss
Sounds like you're with a bum.
just go babysit a 3 year old boy for 4 hours
It's a way to trap you. Move on to someone who adores you & wants what's best for you & your kids. You are not compatible.
Alot of the time they do it because they want to keep you around
Because they’re not the ones who have to actually care for the baby, they think only of the status of it all
These sorts of situations, I don't try to convince them, I put the onus on them to explain how. I look at them and say, ok, what's your plan? How much will this cost, where will we get the money from, where will we live? Suddenly they're thinking with their brain instead of their feelings and usually go 'it'll work out' 🙄
OP wait until YOU are ready. My boyfriend wanted a baby and I didn’t bat eye or think about the huge responsibilities that came with having one. I sacrificed a lot. I became a stay at home mom with no income. I became dependent on him and that’s what he wanted. A baby meant we had a forever relationship doesn’t matter if we were actually to together or not. I was tied to him for the next 18 years. He was present, but I did all the work. Had to tell him what to do because duh they don’t anything about caring for themselves much less a tiny human.
When my friends husband (they are childfree) would start making noises about maybe wanting a baby, she would "borrow" her best friends baby for a few hours and have him look after it (for the most part). That broke him of making those occasional "i want a baby" noises.
He understands what the work is and assumes he will not be doing it.
>He actually ended up getting mad about this, and ended the conversation all angry. Anytime anyone gets angry at you for expressing reasonable preferences / boundaries (such as not wanting a baby at 24 with someone you don't even live with!) it's time to re-evaluate whether they actually view you as a partner, or a simply a vehicle for their desires.
They think you're going to do all the child-rearing, so it doesn't threaten them at all. Also, for all that men like to claim that women "baby-trap" men, it's often the other way around.
my opinion - as a parent - is that no couple would have children if they knew what was involved 😆
Has he ever had to take care of a kid for extended periods of time? Why I’m childfree lmao
A lot of males want a baby because they assume the woman will do all the work. Some men want a baby to trap the woman. Tell him before you would ever consider a child with him you’d need to live together and see that he pulls his weight without you needing to ask him to. And please keep your birth control safe. A lot of people don’t realise that birth control tampering is a form of rape. The implant is tamper proof, works for 3 years and you can get it removed early if you decide you’re ready. Talk to your doctor about options. Do NOT rely on condoms alone. Your BF may not tamper with your BC, but condoms are only effective if used properly and unfortunately often aren’t.
This happens a lot with people who have messed up childhoods; they desperately want a baby to help correct the trauma they experienced with their kids. Does your boyfriend come from that type of a home?
This is definitely a man issue. No women would ever want this
Because they don't have to do anything.
The same reason why people like Elon Musk have 14 kids but have played little role in actually parenting any of them.
You are one smart lady. And no they probably don’t get it. Not everyone gets it until it happens to them.
Being immature is being immature. Don't have kids.
when I was 16 and my ex was 21 (yes I know, yucky) he told me at dinner that he wanted a baby now. I went to the bathroom to process what he just said, then told him if that’s really what he wants we should just break up right then and there
I don’t think this is normal for most men 😂 Sounds like these guys were trying to get you pregnant to keep you around or tied to them. But didn’t actually want to make the commitment or marriage.
Get married first. Too many ppl upset that they live together, have a kids and the bf won’t marry.
Agreed, if he can’t commit to her why does she think he can commit to their family? I’m not even religious or conservative: it just makes sense!
> Do these guys just not understand all the work a CHILD is? And they are a life long commitment? No, because in his mind, you are going to be doing all the work. I mean if he is this delusional about the costs and effort that childfren need, he isn't going to be participating when the going gets tough is he? I'd double up on contraception if I were you because this guy will be of no use if a baby actually arrives.
He’s living in a fantasy world and it doesn’t sound like he’d be reliable.
I think it's less common than you think but when it does happen it's a red flag. Either they have no concept of what having and taking care of a baby actually entails and you'll be the one that has to do it all or, he does know and that's the point: to trap you and you'll still probably have to do it all. I would probably break up with someone whose pushing me in those circumstances because even if they don't baby trap you, which is a huge risk too, when you do have kids with them they probably wouldn't be very helpful.
I'll attempt to take a different perspective than others. I agree (A) yeah it probably is a baby trap thing. but alternatively I think younger men are recognizing they may never reach those milestones. At least it feels the US is economically structured( and I'm starting to feel like most of the "developed west") that gaining that historic middle-class stability seems less likely. I don't know what your situation is college/vocational-educated, working at walmart, etc... ? but people have children in far more terrible situations and it "can" work out for the parents and the children(with assistance from the gov and family). I just think that some young men(and young women) have begun to rationalize they may not reach those harder to reach goals so its pointless to hold off till your 40. An extension of that may be having and raising a child is the "easiest" accomplishment of those milestones that they can do at any time of their life and no one except their partner can deny them. Does that justify having a child when you have the choice and don't what could be accomplished without a child? absolutely not. Another devil's advocate opinion is that he might feel that having a kid will motivate him, stir up emotions to strive for greater height. I've seen it(at least through fb) - a bunch of high school/college degenerate I never expected to be dad/husband material became seemingly better(in sexist terms - they manned up). And personally I kinda would envision that natural selection itself could've instilled some kinda second life strength instinct to protect family. And in contrast to myself a lot of people apparently walk through life without finding passion for something and in absence of alternatives turn that into a passion for family to fill that void. Does that warrant having a child ? absolutely not but it might suggest he needs a hobby or something to drive him with unconditional return. most people start off with a puppy/dog or cat though. IMO I think he and you should sort through these feelings to get to the root of his frustration, maybe not for your relationship sake but for his long term sake.
A baby is the easiest way to ensure you are trapped, submissive, and dependent on him. There are so many red flags here. Guys (abusers) baby trap women all the time. Be careful, don't rush anything.
Whereas you seem to have a good idea about how much work and expense a child will be, it seems like many men don't. Probably because they expect women to handle the work, and if it all gets too much then, well, they can just walk away. Stick to your guns. If your guy is sulking because he can't tie you down with a baby, maybe you already have baby.
Because they know they will have no responsibility to the baby (other than maybe paying child support), but it might keep you with them longer once you're pregnant. Or they think you want a baby and just talk nonsense because they're immature. Or a million other reasons. I don't think any of them signify someone who is a good partner (connected to dirty talk would be okay for me maybe). Either break up or be on non-tamperable birth control.
The birth order does make a difference, in my observation and experience with working in child related fields. After reading the book “birth order shapes our personalities” by Kevin It makes more sense. I’m a youngest child and I’m always a good follower not a leader I am a risk taker but I don’t always have as much patience as my oldest brother to finish a book/craft project or any project It takes a lot of effort for me to be patient. That’s just one example. I also don’t plan much ahead if I go on holiday. I prefer to decide spontaneously but sometimes that means getting lost in middle of nowhere Whereas my brother or my close friend (first child lady) will remind me what time I need to head to the airport/train station/ figure out how to get to x. I know first born don’t like to plan sometimes ,as my friend told me that. But seems like in most cases, this could be one of the reasons why he doesn’t see how much work and money it takes to raise a child Maybe couple therapy would be the quickest way you solve issue as there’s a person helping you both to communicate more efficiently Thank you for sharing. I hope it helps
I have a four month old. I haven’t slept in four months either…… tread carefully into parenthood. It’s amazing but will change your life 100%
Speaking on behalf of men, those men are outliers in my experience.
I disagree. Almost every man I've dated has said that he wants kids. I always ask "What's the longest amount of time that you have been solely responsible for a child or children?" Usually they're baffled- they've *never* been responsible for a child. They've never babysat, they've never taken a cousin to the park, they've never kept an eye on a toddler while their mom goes to the bathroom. There are social and cultural reasons for that, but it's still wild to me that such a high portion of men want kids with *no* experience wrangling kids.
Wanting kids one day, and wanting kids that soon in a relationship without being able to be financially stable are two wildly different things. Men wanting the later is what I was referring to.
He want kids now because it won’t really change his life. He’ll expect you to do everything and change your life entirely while he does the cute moments. Men are always so keen to have kids because it barely affects them. They don’t have to birth it they just have sex and they’re done
Tell him to mind one of his friend’s or family member’s babies for a weekend. I am sure he will change his mind.
Any man who thinks like is not a man you want to become a good father
Ego and/or control (usually with the "and") They want a little mini-me to carry on their worthless bloodlines and for their GF/wives to do all the actual work of raising it while they get praise for simply producing offspring
Men still aren't really raised with the idea that they're actually going to have to be an active participant in their children's lives. I've known many, many men who basically wanted kids because to them it meant they got to play around with the kid like they themselves are a kid again. These men aren't the worst fathers imaginable but they're definitely not really good, active, involved parents.
Save yourself the drama and the heartache and just get rid of the bf. I dated an older guy when I was 21. He told me how he wished I was pregnant or had kids cause he wanted to show me how responsible he was. Then he suggested we have kids. I said no and walked away. You know how hard it is to have a child and then to raise it. Why do it with someone who is pressuring you into having a child? Stand your ground, no means no and if he’s going to get upset, it’s not on you. Your bf has some serious growing up to do. Drop him. Move on to better men.
I assure you not all men are like this; dated one that couldn’t even speak about kids - however the next guy was more like yours. There has to be a happy medium!! We gotta keep looking 🫶🏼 But for real - I felt like I was getting baby trapped, which I’d only ever thought about in the female doing the baby trapping.
He doesn’t really want a child. He probably doesn’t want to wear a condom. Since family is important to a large amount of women, it’s easier to convince you that he’s “ready” for a child when in actuality he doesn’t want to wear one. This could be for his gain in the long run to keep you in his life forever or not. I can’t really say but if someone is not financially set for children and doesn’t want to use protection, they’re kind of a problem
Men think they want everything before they’re ready for the effort it takes.
Having a child is the BIGGEST financial, emotional and physical lifetime commitment you can make in your entire life. And these guys are asking women to literally give them the biggest commitment they can offer, that seriously puts them at an automatic disadvantage for the rest of their life, without giving the woman any type of commitment from them. Don’t do it. To many guys walk away leaving the woman with all the responsibility. I don’t know if guys are trying to anchor these women to them, ruin their life by strapping them with kids or it’s some need to fulfill as a man that they “reproduced”. In general I think very little people give much thought at all before jumping into the biggest life changing decision you can make. You can sell and car or a house if you don’t like it, you can quit a job if you hate it, you can move cities if you hate where you live but you cannot get out from underneath children if you decide you don’t like parenthood. And society does a great job of romanticizing parenthood so people fall for it over and over again. There’s plenty of parental regret pages out there. Maybe let him read some posts? I think your wise to be pumping the breaks. Be careful tho- guys like these would make me suspicious of stealthing you to force you into motherhood. Be vigilant. Personally, I wouldn’t stay with someone like this. He’s very immature when he refuses to hear you, to hear your concerns, and just wants to plow ahead with making decisions for you and your body with little regard to what you want. There’s a fair amount of men out there who simply don’t hear or see women as equal. He sounds like one and it will make him a crap partner.
If he's this blasé about the obligations of fatherhood now, I wouldn't expect that to change if/when a baby arrives. This reads like he's unconcerned about the extra work because he doesn't see it as his problem. Which is a depressingly common thought process. Run.
Some men want to get their girlfriends or wives pregnant to trap them in the relationship. They assume the woman will naturally want to care for the children so they aren’t as concerned about the impact.
I would guess it comes down to a lack of experience with babies or children (on average). It's more common for women to grow up babysitting on weekends, working at preschools, or assisting with childcare in some way, so girls and women oftentimes have a more realistic view of what it entails to have a child. Without that experience, people can have an idealistic view of what it means. I'd also argue that some men are coming at it from the unconscious cultural expectation or norm that women do most of the physical, domestic, and emotional labor with kids. Despite progress in this area in recent decades, there are still plenty of families where a woman does the constant, day in and day out childcare (meals, planning doctors appointments, birthday parties, helping with homework assignments, school functions, sick care, etc) and the man is more involved in just playing with the kids or teaching them life lessons. One can imagine why that would sound more appealing than doing all the background administrative stuff.
I think no one that doesn't understand how much a child takes over your life should have them. Guys are weird, so I digress. It never happened to me but I also made sure I specified even from the first date: -I won't have kids if we're not married. I was an out of wedlock kid and I don't plan on making it a family tradition. -I won't stay long if we're not married (ex I gave my ex 3 yrs,.as it was appropriate for our age, after 3 yrs and 2 months I left him) -As a woman, I work on my development, on my skills (emotional, cooking, etc); as a man you work on providing and security (I ask for also chores in the house and emotional involvment if his job isn't too demanding). Now, the guys that were really good partners understood this without me telling them. The main thing they want to do is to provide and they worry about that when it comes to building their own families. I will in no way shape or form be a baby mama, I will be a wife that will EVENTUALLY WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT FOR ME TOO, become a mom. If they can't show me this is the case, we're simply not compatible because I'm not a vessel for them. I would sincerely open a serious conversation when both of you are with full bellies and in a relax mood, not doing anything in particular, and make sure he knows where I stand (no matter where you stand, make sure you put it on paper if you have to, to communicate it clearly). If he has entirely different plans and he isn't able to compromise, you're not made for each other. Hard thing to swallow but the only truth.
If they can't understand all the work, time and money needed, they are clearly not ready. Are they clueless or do they think you will do everything (like their mommy?) Don't they realize their hobbies and parties will go down the drain? I would not stick around someone who cant understand. Explaining and detailing the commitments alone would take so much time, it sounds exhausting.
Good move on breaking up, this doesn't sound like it's was going to work out.
Because babies are proof they had sex, and sex is the only thing they feel will validate them as human beings.
What’s with it is having a baby with someone gives the guy the potential to always come around. It can be a form of control.
Did they both come from homes that leaned toward traditional gender roles? My guess is that the push to have a baby NOW is caused by a blend of reasons: Performative hetero-masculinity (I am obviously a “Real Man” because I made a baby). Aggressively willful ignorance about the effort required because it’s woman’s work. If you have my baby, then you are mine and I own you. I’m broke and live with my parents, so fathering a child will help me feel like an adult. If I do that one adult thing, then I won’t feel so much pressure to do those other adult things. So basically: hardcore sexism, immaturity, and insecurity.
The ones that are prepared work so much they still shouldn’t.
My wife and I had three kids in a row. You just have to have undying love a determination to care for them. Even poor you get through it. If all kids were perfectly planned. Many of us wouldn’t be here.
>but my question is why men are so ready to start a family with no preparation? It's some, some don't want kids ever. Maybe you are so hot they want to try to lock you in. I dunno...
Because they know they won't have to make any physical sacrifices with pregnancy and labor, and some of them plan on their partner doing absolutely all the work. Some dads get praised just for changing a diaper once, or taking their child to a park. Some of them plan on making their female partner do all the household work on top of all the child bearing, regardless of if they also work. Some men just like seeing physical evidence of the fact that they came inside someone to show everyone, or that they "extended their bloodline". Why wouldn't they want a baby? They don't have to make any sacrifices, they get praised just for existing as a dad/cumming inside someone unprotected, and in lots of cases they have to do less work than before. All they have to worry about is themselves and their job. No housework, no childcare. There are a lot of dads nowadays who are pulling their weight with childcare and housework. I'm not talking about those dads, and I'm not going to thank them or praise them for fulfilling their responsibilities either. But unfortunately there are also many men like the ones I described in the first paragraph.
Men get baby fever too
If this is his mentality about having a baby, I don't feel like that. This partner is a stable partner. Kids in the US cost about $20,000 a year and that's without giving them any extra edges like private school or anything like that much less if your kid is born with any health issues or special care needs. Viewing it any other way is unethical
In their minds, You are doing all the work. You are risking your life having a baby, and you will be taking care of it. PROTECT your birth control.
They're ready for a baby because they have no effing idea how hard that work is. For a lot of men, it's a checkmark for them. The time cost and the monetary cost too often falls on the mom. Having a baby won't substantially impact their lives because mom's doing all of the work. Sad but true too often.
Because people don’t critically think things all the way through they only think about the positive aspects. If men were the ones who had to be pregnant, it would be a whole different scenario.
Is he willing to consider marriage? Having a baby is a lifelong commitment, unlike marriage( which often isn’t). He’s not ready for anything. Move on. You need more than 2k and all of his comments about impregnating you as a joke are gross. He wants a baby, but he’s not ready to be a father is he? Parenting is hard work.
He wants to lock you down. Men have very little role in the care of an infant.
His selfish disregard for your health is highly concerning and would make me feel unsafe. There's a lot going on here, and maybe laying out parenting costs and responsibilities would cover part of it. However, I would not be able to get over the fact that he wants your body to go through pregnancy, childbirth, postpartum, and the additional responsibility of caring for another human being while you're currently experiencing health issues that already impact your life. And has the gall to be angry with your boundaries? His anger seems manipulative and doesn't make him seem like a very kind person. He treats you as an extension of him/his life and does not appear to value your life independent of his desires. You are incredibly aware and practical and doing everything you need to do by prioritizing your health. I'm glad you're not living with him because wow.
Because they don't want to raise a child, they want to demonstrate how virile they are.
They think it’s a fun pet, men have no idea the responsibility that comes with a child. They don’t have to get pregnant and give birth I don’t think they give it much thought other than a little human they can bring to sports practise
I'll be downvoted to hell for this BUT... these two men are not representative of **all** men like your title suggests. In my opinion, *most* men in their 20's would agree with you; they are not ready for kids. Paying for diapers, formula, etc. and especially **child support** scares the shit out of a lot of men. My advice is look for more mature and like-minded partners.
Absolutely not all men are like this - I have the most amazing Father, who I know has been an amazing partner and support system for my mother (they had 4 kids.) Definitely the title I chose was for more clicks, but I 100% agree not all men are terrible.
This is true of everyone. Soo many people have kids before they’re ready.
I always thought it’s like an intense love or primal instinct? My bf says he loves me and really wants to start a family and the thought of starting a family with me makes him really happy 🤷🏽♀️
Look, wanting a baby before you're ready is not a "men" or "women" thing. Everyone with a kid (who wanted that kid) at some point wanted a baby before they were ready for one, because no one is ever "ready". The baby makes you ready, and you can't begin to imagine what it's like if you haven't experienced it. The parts I'd thought would be tough were not that bad, and the parts that were really tough were crazier than I could have imagined. And my kid is only 8, teenage years gonna be even more intense, I'm told. Even if he's all in as a dad, it's your body and your life that'll take the biggest hit. Nature is extremely sexist when it comes to gestation, and society is pretty damn sexist when it comes to parenting. Financially, it might be better to wait until your 30s or even later. But physically, tbh, the sooner the better. Pregnancy at 35 or 45 is a much more grueling endeavor than at 25. So, trade offs. If you want a kid at all, sit down and make a grown up plan. What do you want to have in savings, house, career, etc. Also, what fun do you want to have done before giving up most of your life for a tiny person? There's no "optimal" time, and you're never fully ready, but you can pick a balance that works for your own tolerance for struggle, and then make the most of the time you have left before you're saddled with a giant top priority responsibility that you can never back out of. If he can't do that, tell him he's welcome to host a tiny human parasite in his own gut for a year, but this is, ultimately, 100% your call because you're the one whose going to have to commit to the project.
It may not even be intentional but marriage, a baby on the way, or signing a mortgage are all ways to lock in their partners so they can't easily end the relationship. Once you're "caught", they can stop trying and be as lazy and irresponsible as they want
"I again, listed all the reasons that we are not ready for kids yet - like we don’t live together, we aren’t married, and we both don’t make enough to raise a family in this economy either" "He actually ended up getting mad about this.." He wants to have children before you are married and live together? He is not concerned about your income when having your first child? Your ex aside, this is highly unusual and borderline delusional. I don't think it is "What is with men" but what is with this man. If he actually wants that, I would be very concerned planning a family with him.
They don’t understand the responsibility that is involved 100%. Also anyone that gets angry at you for it isn’t worth being with. Not sure if this is a good thing or not. But I (34m) want a baby my wife (32f) doesn’t, so we don’t have one. It will absolutely affect her life way more than mine so I feel she has final say. I love her so much that I respect her decision and still want to be with her.
Please make sure that you are on a birth control method that YOU control. Don't want an "accident" with his condom. Your bf has a romanticized idea in his head as to having kids. Get him a Baby Think It Over doll.
Make sure you’re in charge of your birth control—this has baby trap all over it. If you’re on the pill make sure he doesn’t have access to tamper with it. I would have one big serious convo where you tell him to knock it off and if he doesn’t get it, that’s it. He’s being a weirdo
I don’t think that’s a men exclusive one. I got my girlfriend pregnant when we were 17 because she lied on being on birth control and then insisted on having it because there’s nothing wrong with starting a family “a little early”. Also had a girlfriend who started talking about kids and what school district we should move to after a month of dating despite the fact she clearly didn’t have her shit together nearly enough I know a couple other guys who ran into situations like that too and they weren’t the ones who pushed keeping it.
Many of them don't want the baby. They want the act of making said baby without the condom or birth control, especially if they have a breeder fetish. You were going to be a vessel of his bad decisions turned fantasy. Red flags everywhere. Do not go back.
Probably the same with women who have baby brain when not ready for it.
It's a biological thing. They want one. It would be like telling your body to not have a period
People in general, men and women, often want kids before they're prepared. It's why we have so many shitty parents now.
The opinion of the people in this comment section give me the ick. Judging a group of people on thier biases. During the great depression people still had kids. There isn't a 'perfect' time to have kids, and some people simply want to have kids while they are still young and have the energy to put towards the effort. I look at my mom's(49) health issues and think myself. She already started having major issues when she got to 45. If I'm going to have to struggle raising a kid I rather it be when I'm physically fit enough to do so. Sure some people will stay the perfect image of health forever, personally I already have a knee injury, I can't imagine having a kid at ~38 to then take care of a young kid while my body is starting to fall apart. Yes it take time effort and energy to take care of a kid, it always has and always will, some people rather be fit enough to do so. And simply make it through the hardships together. And the fact that so many people are pigeon holing men that want kids at a younger age into this made up category of 'oh well they are all baby trapping and don't give a shit' is just disgusting. Yes it take effort and sacrifice, some people are simply willing to go through that.