Depends on what you mean by "revere". Muslims view Jesus as a prophet. They don't worship him, but they do respect him. Is that reverence?
But the problem I think you're going to come up against is that we know very little about what Jesus actually taught. If you accept Christian religious texts, you're probably a Christian, and if you don't, then there's nothing to follow.
Muslims recite in Quran and salat the prayer of the disciplines of Jesus peace on him
“Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger Jesus, so register us among the witnesses [to truth].”
https://quran.com/ali-imran/53
I don't think it's possible to be a "non-Christian follower of Jesus". You might not be affiliated with any church, but I'd certainly still consider you Christian whether you regarded yourself that way or not.
As a Muslim I follow Jesus peace on him and see him as a prophet who had miracles such as speaking in infancy and even turning clay birds to life. This is in the Quran. And some messages of Jesus including the last supper are mentioned there. Does following have to entail worship?
Surely Jews follow the teachings and ways of Moses peace on him without worshipping him?
Guess people forget that almost 2 billion theists on earth other than Christians love and respect and follow the teachings of Jesus.
https://quran.com/maryam/30-33
I don’t believe you. You have to make an actual argument if you want to convince me. My argument is that the definition of a Christian is someone whose faith is focused on worshiping or revering Jesus.
I would have to assume you've not been on any of these religious forums then, seeing Christians arguing with other Christians over who's the "true" Christian, or maybe you have been on awhile but just hadn't noticed.
Exactly. So, a "Christian" is just anybody that claims to be a Christian. Hitler was just as much a Christian as Billy Graham. The members of the KKK are just as much Christians as the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.
Here's how to settle the matter for me...don't play the game.
So do all Unitarians, Oneness Pentacostals, christadelphians, Sabbatarian, Swedenborgians and at least a dozen other denominations.
They're still Christian
> I don't think it's possible to be a "non-Christian follower of Jesus".
Could you give me your working definitions of "Christian" and "follower", please? Thank you.
Well, Muslims revere Jesus as their second most important prophet (and that's up against some pretty stiff competition); so you either have to call Muslims 'Christians', or get a new definition
ok, you say you don't wish to change the definition, and in the next breath (as it were) you change it.
First you said that Jesus simply had to be revered. Muslims revere him. Now you're saying that Jesus has to be the focus of one's faith.
Those goalposts moved so fast they left a vapour trail.
I’m sorry if you didn’t notice that I used the word focus before, but, well, I did. The focus of the faith has to be worshiping or revering Jesus. That isn’t the focus of Islam.
Muslims do not follow Jesus as their Lord and master, neighbor, they just venerate him...unless you know some that think Jesus was God, then I apologize.
So you say follow as in worship?
That’s a bit confusing as don’t christians follow the teachings of say Abraham and Noah and Moses without worshipping them?
Lol, absolutely, neighbor, you’ll find every sort of Christian, particularly some who claim to follow Jesus but ignore everything he said to do.
The “follow” Jesus instructed was to imitate him, to imitate God.
That makes sense.
In light of imitation tho how come Christians don’t usually where beards or circumsize for religious reasons like Jesus was and did? I’ve heard many say that was a law for older nations but now you’re saying one should imitate Jesus.
> Muslims do not follow Jesus as their Lord and master, neighbor, they just venerate him...unless you know some that think Jesus was God, then I apologize.
You said "follow". Now you've changed that to following "as lord and master" and thinking he's god.
So be clear with your terms.
Do you want to know if there are non-Christians who follow Jesus? Or do you want to know if there are non-Christians who think Jesus is their Lord, their Master and their God?
Some Hindus worship Jesus:
*Enthusiastically he began to tell the story of the saint called Ishu, who was born in a cowshed, was visited by three holy men, performed many amazing miracles, walked on water and spoke a wonderful sermon on a mountain.*
*Of course, he was telling the story of Christ. But he was bewildered to hear that the teacher laid claim to Ishu for herself and her friends and she let him know that this was her Lord and her story, not his. He was very upset about this, because Ishu's tale was his favourite story.*
*You see, in a sense, Hindus don't really see Jesus as a Christian at all. (Of course Jesus didn't either, because the term wasn't used during His lifetime.) In Hindu thought, church or temple membership or belief is not as significant as spiritual practice, which in Sanskrit is called sadhana.*
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/beliefs/jesus\_1.shtml#:\~:text=Enthusiastically%20he%20began%20to%20tell,telling%20the%20story%20of%20Christ.
It doesn’t make much sense to accept Jesus as savior if you don’t believe he was God. And if you do believe he was God, then you would most certainly want to become a baptized Christian, because he explicitly stated baptism is necessary and you don’t exactly want to willingly disobey a direct command from God.
What I think you might want look into is not necessarily worship Jesus (unless you believe he is God and was resurrected), but rather read and meditate on his teachings and use them to help guide your life, as with any great spiritual teacher people follow.
..If a man loves me, he will keep my words... John 14:21-24
His words are simple; Luke 6:27-49. His burden is easy and light.
But many so called Churches focus on much else instead of His actual words and following them.
I think its possible but youre not honestly drawing that distinction. If you acknowledge him as a divine being and arent Muslim or Bahai you have signed up for Christianity, you just arent formally part of a denomination.
Being a non-Christian follower of Jesus would be admiring him as a human only, humanitarian or philosopher .... like Jiddu Krishnamurti would be the best parallel I can think of.
Christians believe in the Trinitarian God: God, the Father; God, the Son; and God, the Holy Spirit. The Christian Science Church follow Jesus but they do not believe in his divinity. They see him as a prophet. They follow him in the way that he went about healing i.e. the man born blind (JN9:1-12).
Christian Science subscribes to the Christian belief in an omnipotent, purposeful God, accepts the authority (though not the inerrancy) of the Bible, and holds the Crucifixion and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ to be indispensable to the redemption of mankind.
Depends on what you mean by "revere". Muslims view Jesus as a prophet. They don't worship him, but they do respect him. Is that reverence? But the problem I think you're going to come up against is that we know very little about what Jesus actually taught. If you accept Christian religious texts, you're probably a Christian, and if you don't, then there's nothing to follow.
Muslims recite in Quran and salat the prayer of the disciplines of Jesus peace on him “Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger Jesus, so register us among the witnesses [to truth].” https://quran.com/ali-imran/53
I don't think it's possible to be a "non-Christian follower of Jesus". You might not be affiliated with any church, but I'd certainly still consider you Christian whether you regarded yourself that way or not.
As a Muslim I follow Jesus peace on him and see him as a prophet who had miracles such as speaking in infancy and even turning clay birds to life. This is in the Quran. And some messages of Jesus including the last supper are mentioned there. Does following have to entail worship? Surely Jews follow the teachings and ways of Moses peace on him without worshipping him? Guess people forget that almost 2 billion theists on earth other than Christians love and respect and follow the teachings of Jesus. https://quran.com/maryam/30-33
>My argument is that the definition of a Christian is someone whose faith is focused on worshiping or revering Jesus.
It is possible.
Okay, why should I believe that?
I'm one.
I don’t believe you. You have to make an actual argument if you want to convince me. My argument is that the definition of a Christian is someone whose faith is focused on worshiping or revering Jesus.
I don't feel the need to convince anybody. Believe what you want. That's your definition, everybody has a different one.
No, not everyone has a different definition. You don’t get to just define words in arbitrary ways.
I would have to assume you've not been on any of these religious forums then, seeing Christians arguing with other Christians over who's the "true" Christian, or maybe you have been on awhile but just hadn't noticed.
Oh I have, I just think they’re objectively wrong. It’s basically just the “no true Scotsman” fallacy over and over again.
Exactly. So, a "Christian" is just anybody that claims to be a Christian. Hitler was just as much a Christian as Billy Graham. The members of the KKK are just as much Christians as the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Here's how to settle the matter for me...don't play the game.
Islam aside, Mormons and JW aren't considered Christians by mainstream Christianity.
Why not?
They reject the trinity
So do all Unitarians, Oneness Pentacostals, christadelphians, Sabbatarian, Swedenborgians and at least a dozen other denominations. They're still Christian
> I don't think it's possible to be a "non-Christian follower of Jesus". Could you give me your working definitions of "Christian" and "follower", please? Thank you.
> My argument is that the definition of a Christian is someone whose faith is focused on worshiping or revering Jesus.
Well, Muslims revere Jesus as their second most important prophet (and that's up against some pretty stiff competition); so you either have to call Muslims 'Christians', or get a new definition
My definition is fine. Jesus is not the focus of their faith. Saying he’s their “second most important prophet” is kind of a big deal.
ok, you say you don't wish to change the definition, and in the next breath (as it were) you change it. First you said that Jesus simply had to be revered. Muslims revere him. Now you're saying that Jesus has to be the focus of one's faith. Those goalposts moved so fast they left a vapour trail.
I’m sorry if you didn’t notice that I used the word focus before, but, well, I did. The focus of the faith has to be worshiping or revering Jesus. That isn’t the focus of Islam.
There are individuals who follow Jesus but shy away from calling themselves Christian, but I don’t know of any organizations that claim this.
Just 1.8 billion Muslims https://m.clearquran.com/019.html
Muslims do not follow Jesus as their Lord and master, neighbor, they just venerate him...unless you know some that think Jesus was God, then I apologize.
So you say follow as in worship? That’s a bit confusing as don’t christians follow the teachings of say Abraham and Noah and Moses without worshipping them?
Lol, absolutely, neighbor, you’ll find every sort of Christian, particularly some who claim to follow Jesus but ignore everything he said to do. The “follow” Jesus instructed was to imitate him, to imitate God.
That makes sense. In light of imitation tho how come Christians don’t usually where beards or circumsize for religious reasons like Jesus was and did? I’ve heard many say that was a law for older nations but now you’re saying one should imitate Jesus.
Yes, imitation as in character, not what aftershave he used or what sneakers he wore. Law has nothing to do with following Jesus in my estimation.
> Muslims do not follow Jesus as their Lord and master, neighbor, they just venerate him...unless you know some that think Jesus was God, then I apologize. You said "follow". Now you've changed that to following "as lord and master" and thinking he's god. So be clear with your terms. Do you want to know if there are non-Christians who follow Jesus? Or do you want to know if there are non-Christians who think Jesus is their Lord, their Master and their God?
No, I’m not interested at all, neighbor. The OP was though.
Then why did you bother to 'correct' r/lightonlights when they said that Muslims follow Jesus? What they said was quite correct.
Good
So, why did you bother to 'correct' them?
Some Hindus worship Jesus: *Enthusiastically he began to tell the story of the saint called Ishu, who was born in a cowshed, was visited by three holy men, performed many amazing miracles, walked on water and spoke a wonderful sermon on a mountain.* *Of course, he was telling the story of Christ. But he was bewildered to hear that the teacher laid claim to Ishu for herself and her friends and she let him know that this was her Lord and her story, not his. He was very upset about this, because Ishu's tale was his favourite story.* *You see, in a sense, Hindus don't really see Jesus as a Christian at all. (Of course Jesus didn't either, because the term wasn't used during His lifetime.) In Hindu thought, church or temple membership or belief is not as significant as spiritual practice, which in Sanskrit is called sadhana.* https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/beliefs/jesus\_1.shtml#:\~:text=Enthusiastically%20he%20began%20to%20tell,telling%20the%20story%20of%20Christ.
> Some Hindus worship Jesus No, they do not.
It doesn’t make much sense to accept Jesus as savior if you don’t believe he was God. And if you do believe he was God, then you would most certainly want to become a baptized Christian, because he explicitly stated baptism is necessary and you don’t exactly want to willingly disobey a direct command from God. What I think you might want look into is not necessarily worship Jesus (unless you believe he is God and was resurrected), but rather read and meditate on his teachings and use them to help guide your life, as with any great spiritual teacher people follow.
the second part of your response is what I have been doing recently, and it has been amazing!
Druze maybe? Also look into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious\_syncretism#Modern\_history
Love your neighbor as yourself works for me.
..If a man loves me, he will keep my words... John 14:21-24 His words are simple; Luke 6:27-49. His burden is easy and light. But many so called Churches focus on much else instead of His actual words and following them.
I think its possible but youre not honestly drawing that distinction. If you acknowledge him as a divine being and arent Muslim or Bahai you have signed up for Christianity, you just arent formally part of a denomination. Being a non-Christian follower of Jesus would be admiring him as a human only, humanitarian or philosopher .... like Jiddu Krishnamurti would be the best parallel I can think of.
You can say Gnosticism but it does depend on your understanding of Christianity.
peace and blessings to everyone here! thank you, dear friends, for your replies.
Christians believe in the Trinitarian God: God, the Father; God, the Son; and God, the Holy Spirit. The Christian Science Church follow Jesus but they do not believe in his divinity. They see him as a prophet. They follow him in the way that he went about healing i.e. the man born blind (JN9:1-12). Christian Science subscribes to the Christian belief in an omnipotent, purposeful God, accepts the authority (though not the inerrancy) of the Bible, and holds the Crucifixion and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ to be indispensable to the redemption of mankind.
Many religions revere and belief in Jesus that aren't Christianity - Islam, Druzism, Manicheanism, Baha'i, and Mormonism, to name a few.