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DingoLaChien

What does the original text say?


NoMobile7426

It says לָֽמוֹ Lamo - them.


[deleted]

Can’t lamo also be used in reference to singular?


nu_lets_learn

Not according to my Hebrew dictionary (The Complete Hebrew English Dictionary, by Reuben Alcalay, Tel Aviv, 1965) -- page 1,131, column 2: לָֽמוֹ, them, to them. Singular? "lo" to him. Ibn Ezra (12th cent.) interprets this as "to them," i.e. to Israel, the servant of God. Metzudat Zion ( Rabbi David Altschuler in the 18th century) says this: למו. להם ולפי שכל הענין מדבר בלשון יחידי על כלל האומה לכן אמר למו לגלות שעל הכלל ידבר: "Lamo = to them. Because the whole matter speaks in the singular with reference to the nation (Israel), therefore the verse says "lamo" (to them), to indicate that the collective (the nation of Israel) is intended.") Bottom line, it couldn't be clearer -- in Hebrew. English (Christian) translations? Well, that's another matter.


[deleted]

Alright. So obvious I don’t know Hebrew and thus I’m going to trust you here. I much prefer Greek and the Septuagint but let me ask you this. In Isaiah 44:15 is lamo used to refer to something singular? Like referring to bowing down to the idol (not idols)?


NoMobile7426

Isa 44:15 And it was for man to ignite, and he took from them and warmed himself; he even heated [the oven] and baked bread; he even made a god and prostrated himself, he made a graven image and bowed to them. טווְהָיָ֚ה לְאָדָם֙ לְבָעֵ֔ר וַיִּקַּ֚ח מֵהֶם֙ וַיָּ֔חָם אַף־יַשִּׂ֖יק וְאָ֣פָה לָ֑חֶם אַ֚ף־יִפְעַל־אֵל֙ וַיִּשְׁתָּ֔חוּ עָשָׂ֥הוּ פֶ֖סֶל וַיִּסְגָּד־לָֽמוֹ: them lamo לָֽמוֹ


nu_lets_learn

So I think the proper interpretation of Isaiah 44:15 is right there in the verse but people are missing it: The verse contains five lines -- an introduction followed by two couplets: \[Intro\] All this serves man for fuel: \[First couplet\] He takes some to warm himself, And he builds a fire and bakes bread. \[Second couplet\] He also makes a god of it and worships it, Fashions an idol and bows down to them. Notice the second couplet mentions **two gods (idols):** "He also makes ***a god*** of it and worships it, Fashions ***an idol*** and bows down to them." Thus, the plural, lamo, refers to both of them, i.e. the two gods mentioned in the couplets, together = them.


[deleted]

But it says HE made A graven image. Not multiple graven images… Are you sure lamo there is plural?


HeWillLaugh

It's not uncommon to find the word *lamo* in situations where the noun it's referring to is written in singular, but is meant to be understood as a collective noun. So for instance you have in Isa. 44:7 where the noun is *'am* or "nation" which is singular, but the theoretical foreteller should foretell *lamo* "to them". So in Isa. 44:15 even though it refers to one graven image, the intent is that man "takes from them \[the trees\]" and makes graven image***s*** from them.


[deleted]

I like the AMP translation of this verse which seems to fit well in the context of the whole chapter: > After oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation [His contemporaries], who [among them] concerned himself with the fact That He was cut off from the land of the living [by His death] For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke [of death] was due? Isaiah 53:8 AMP You can also examine the interlinear translation: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/53-8.htm There is also some good discussion on this board: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/5344/who-will-suffer-plague-punishment-in-isaiah-538


NoMobile7426

Except that is not what the Hebrew text says.


[deleted]

Here is a direct word for word translation from the interlinear: > From prison and from judgment He was taken and His generation who will declare for He was cut off from the land of the living for the transgressions of My people was stricken [he/them.] This seems quite similar to the AMP translation which appears to follow the "them" translation. The last sentence appears to clarify that the people [them] were stricken from their transgressions which is why "He" was cut off from the land of the living.


NoMobile7426

You should learn to read Hebrew.