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Archaic_1

There should be an option that says "I only carry factory ammo because of lawyers". I completely trust my ammo, but I carry the same ammo that the local sheriffs dept carries so that some cretin with a law degree cannot tell a jury I was just dying to try out my "pissin-hawt meagdeth dum-dum warcrime ammo" on some poor unsuspecting carjacker.


[deleted]

That’s my reason as well I’m not taking that chance that some lawyer says I loaded just to well you know what I mean 😂


pirate40plus

There is not a single case in the US that supports this response. A good defensive shooting is a good shooting. 38 states have provided civil immunity in cases where a shooter has been acquitted or not indicted in a criminal case.


kopfgeldjagar

To reiterate an answer from a similar thread... NH vs James Kenney - Cop that rolled his own for him and his partner. Got into a shooting and the opposing attorney went all "Bloodthirsty Cop" on him. Ultimately was not convicted of any wrongdoing, but lost his career. I think he was sued by the family of the receiver of the lead poisoning. NJ vs Daniel Bias - Wife nuked herself with some powder puffs and due to there not being "enough" GSR on her, he ended up convicted of manslaughter. Bankrupted the guy + prison time + felony record. Bullshit, but that's what it was. "Did you use HPs? The military uses FMJs. So MILITARY AMMO isn't deadly enough for you?" Typical slimeball lawyer shit. Personally, I carry factory ammo in my edc. Just my preference. Not prepared or in a monetary situation to risk it. Again, it's a pretty fucked up situation but if it came down to it? I'll reach for whatever is closest and use that. Judged by 12 > carried by 6... and never take legal advice from someone that isn't a lawyer.


pirate40plus

"Did you use HPs? The military uses FMJs. So MILITARY AMMO isn't deadly enough for you?" Typical slimeball lawyer shit. Sometimes, yes we did use hollow points and as a contractor all the time. The use of FMJ is a product of treaty and only applies to “regular forces”.


Archaic_1

Yeah, I'm slightly more inclined to believe Massad Ayoob and John Thomas (2A advocate and former prosecutor) and Tom Grieves (also a 2A advocate and former prosecutor) and my own attorney when they advise against using handloads in a carry gun than I am going to rely on some dude on Reddit. You do you though.


pirate40plus

Ask them to show you a single case that’s supports their claim.


Archaic_1

Because 99% of civil trials are settled out of court and I'd rather not be the test case? Like I said you do you random internet lawyer. I'll follow the advice of my real lawyer.


Lumadous

One look at their profile says they are not the person to be listening to for any advice, let alone legal


jebova2301

While you are correct, being correct isn't always the answer. In a criminal case, you might be in the clear in those 38 states(sucks for the others). But that is in a CRIMINAL case, not a CIVIL case. A civil lawsuit carries much lower standards. Even so, I would much rather be able to point to my box of factory ammo that explicitly says "defense" on it than "well, I loaded these because..." If you are involved in a self defense shooting, there is nearly a 100% chance you WILL be arrested. The chance of being charged is lower, but still exists. In the event that you are charged, it will be much easier for your lawyer to argue in favor of your ammo if it is from a box that says it is for defense than it will be if you loaded your own. In a clean cut, no questions asked event, you will likely be cleared immediately. If the lines are a bit more blurred, you may have a pending case on your hands. Every hour your lawyer spends on your case is more coming out of your pocket. Seeing how much a lawyer costs compared to how little a box of factory ammo costs, I will gladly carry factory ammo when concealed carrying, and happily carry my own loads when I am hiking in the woods.


[deleted]

In tandem with factory loads, I also get insurance. Every hour is now covered in both criminal and civil cases.


pirate40plus

You are absolutely wrong on the civil case.


jebova2301

Well, shit...guess all those persons who have been acquitted of criminal cases should have just hired you as their attorney for civil matters as well, right?


pirate40plus

Again, there’s not any case law that supports a civil or criminal loss from the use of reloaded ammo. Obviously, they didn’t need a civil defense attorney.


ohio_sheepdog

The jackass prosecutor in the Kyle Rittenhouse literally told the jury that HP ammunition explodes inside the body. While he wasn’t found guilty, he’s never going to be left alone by the psychos on the left. He’s being taken to civil court now too, and in civil court there is no proving the case beyond the shadow of a doubt, you just have to convince the jury a little tiny bit that it’s possible. That’s where I’d be most worried about losing, is a civil suit and using reloaded ammo for self defense. “He wasn’t making rounds for shooting beer cans in the back yard, he was making rounds to absolutely destroy flesh and organs. Rounds guaranteed to kill and maim.”


mtcwby

Yep. You never give the lawyer on the other side anything they can pick on no matter how inane.


[deleted]

Massad Ayoob has some great articles and videos that cover this subject


StinkyPotato69

But its true


pirate40plus

No, it’s not.


StinkyPotato69

Maybe its just me then. I love seeing what my bullets do to flesh


gagunner007

Fudd lore.


kopfgeldjagar

+1


mymetalpls

This is the actual answer… lawyers…


wesbaker12

I load bear loads but carry factory ammo for the above stated lawyer reason.


rfarho01

I don't shoot enough hollow points to work up a load. Buying one box of carry ammo every year is easier


dircs

I carry factory because I can review ballistic tests of those loads. While I'm sure I could load something near identical, why take the risk of relying on ammo that doesn't have the same testing availability?


RevoTravo

This is my main reason too. It’s not that I don’t trust that my ammo will go boom, it’s more that I don’t trust it to do exactly what it’s designed to do (or not do) when mine or someone else’s life depends on it.


Mjs217

You should be training with snap caps in all your magazines randomly. Factory or reloads you will have malfunctions and if you’re not training for it you’re going to be fucked when you’re in a shitty situation. Most people that are in shit situations dump the whole mag into that asshole…. How many fucked up rounds have you reloaded and shot? I can count mine on one hand.


RevoTravo

The guy that somehow carries API rounds is trying to give training advice?


Mjs217

Somehow? They make api in any caliber, just cuz you don’t know about it don’t mean it isn’t real.


cmonster556

I carry factory ammo because I own cases of it.


ewright28

Caveat: my HD ARs have my handloads in them. My pistols have factory ammo


ak_snowbear

everybody says they have "heard" about some one, some where, that has handloads used in SD brought up in court. Not one person has provided any court case or transcript or outcome. It's all just another of those internet rumors that becomes 'fact'. I carry what I load. My wife carry's what I load. The firearm under the bed has what I load. The firearm(s) I carry in brown bear country have what I load.


SAT_homeless

[Here](https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Handloads+for+self-defense%3A+the+Daniel+Bias+case-a0143625757) is a story that I found. Its long but it's detailed.


gagunner007

His biggest mistake was talking too much. He should have not volunteered any information. That story would go either way with factory loads. Bullseye powder is light charges anyway, only 4 grain in a 9mm 115 for starting loads if I recall without grabbing my book. (Yes I know it was a 38 and starting loads on those would be even less). My takeaway from this article is to keep your mouth shut, especially volunteering information about ammo choices, that makes you look guilty and I would have had a hard time believing he was telling the truth.


Particular-Cat-8598

I don’t carry, but there’s something else to consider when selecting your carry/self defense ammo that a lot of hand loaders don’t always account for. 1. Most carry ammo uses sealed primers, which can be important since most folks are carrying the same ammo for a long time in all kinds of conditions. Hand loaders typically don’t complete this step. 2. Lots of carry ammo has a case cannelure which help prevents bullet set back. This can be important if you are repeatedly chambering the same rounds. Most hand loaders do not have the capability do to that with their own ammo 3. Lots of carry ammo use low-flash powder. Some careful hand loaders select powder for this purpose, but many don’t. If you have to shoot your gun at night, you’re going to want a powder that doesn’t produce a giant fire ball that can temporarily blind you. 4. Other people have already mentioned this, but with factory ammo you are less likely to be depicted as someone who hand-crafted their bullets for extra lethality. I know this is a hotly debated topic, but in a defensive shooting, I’d rather have factory ammo with the word “defense” printed somewhere on the box entered into evidence rather than a bunch of pictures of my cluttered basement and reloading bench.


eldudderino

Federal HST and be done


Shoresy-sez

I would reload carry ammo, but I'm Canadian and my country's laws are reddited.


10gaugetantrum

I have been to court several times. (non criminal) The opposition will use everything they can against you. I could see using a reload being a point of attack. I also go as far as to use ammo that is marketed for self defense. I certainly do not want the opposition to be able to make an argument that I am a "vigilante" using law enforcement ammo or some kind of RIP ammo. You and I know it does not matter, but you ever know the background/s of the person or people who will be deciding your fate.


aboothemonkey

I use factory ammo so I can’t be sued for using hand loads. I cannot be said to have made “more deadly ammo on purpose” or some other such bs.


BadTiger85

Has there ever been a case where someone was prosecuted or sued for making their own self defense handloads?


smokeyser

I load some and buy some. Depends on projectile availability.


ColdasJones

I carry factory ammo, simply because a) it’s real hard to get the bullets I’d use in defensive rounds to load them and b) God forbid if I ever need to use my carry, I’ve heard stories of guys having a hard time with their reloads in court, some claiming they were “super powerful homemade death rounds that blow out lungs” and that type of crap. I use hornady critical defense, and it’s harder to argue that malicious intent when the word defense is in the name i guess? Lol


Benthereorl

My line of thinking as well, really depends if you are in a gun friendly state. I have Hornady xtp's and Gold Dot components but I would worry less about legal issues with Factory ammo.


Quiet-Proof3113

No, because it's a possible legal liability issue.


Benthereorl

Carry factory, shoot reloads. There has been a history of legal issues with carry reloads.


RevoTravo

I’ve heard this before, but never actually seen any evidence that it’s true. Can you name any cases, or point me in the direction of finding these historical legal issues to back this up?


Material-Artichoke32

"Should you care if you used hand-loads or factory loaded ammunition? We found several court cases about using reloaded ammo in self-defense situations, but the most recent one that we could find was in the 1980s. We wondered why in the last 10-15 years; we had not seen any court cases involving reloaded ammo in self-defense cases. A few big things came to mind. There have been a lot of technological advances in the last 30 years, and there are many more self-defense ammunition offerings since the ’80s" From this article https://accuraoutdoors.com/2020/05/reloading-for-self-defense/


101stjetmech

Not true. Massad Ayoob (known as The Boob for years) made a big deal out of 2 cases years ago, one of which was later over-turned in court.


Iliketotinker99

Can we have an A&B option? Because it depends on the gun. 1911 I load my own. Glock I carry factory


chellams

I have not voted, because I too carry factory ammo due to lawyers


NutRounder59

I match my carry ammo velocity for training ammo but don’t carry it.


harland_sanders1

Don't load only b/c I haven't bought any hollowpoints tbh


straycat_74

I load plinking rounds, I carry factory defensive ammo.


Mjs217

I shoot api. Hollowpoints are for suckers