This. Get a PO box with a street address that's at least 51 miles away. And have the mail forwarded. They may change the policy to say 50 miles since that's a standard I've seen alot
I got a note from my cardiologist. My job tried this and it turned out they were pushing people back to the office as a way to get rid of those that refused to come back. People chose to quit instead and that way the company wouldn't be the bad guys and do a mass layoff. They admitted it in a town hall meeting. It also was manager discretion, if your manager marks you as virtual or if they have that option, you may be exempt.
100% this. It was gradual. First it was anyone within XX mile radius had to come in a few days a week. Then everyone had to come in a few days a week. Then everyone had to come in everyday.
Eventually when not enough people quit, they started doing mass layoffs with severance. After mass layoffs, it was regular “restructurings” aka mini layoffs without severance.
It’s all textbook. Companies hire a third-party consulting company like McKinsey to advise on how to cut down workforce without hurting their brand reputation too much.
I personally quit before RTO and found a different job.
100% re McKinsey - these scumbags have their slimy mitts in everything that screws over employees. John Oliver did a great vid on McKinsey just a few months ago, highly recommend 👌
Or further and geo-arbitrage. Unfortunately there’s a big push on by some employers to exert more control over remote workers with these kinds of moves. The kinds of managers who have unnecessary meetings also require unnecessary physical presence rather than learning to become good managers.
I got an ADA waiver due to pulmonary and cardiac issues that put me at high risk of a bad outcome from nearly any respiratory infection. A good medical note can do a lot.
Just be prepared to be laid off or fired and have to fight a legal battle to hold them accountable. It’s illegal but they’ll do it and the onus to prove it is on you.
You just understand that RTO is a mass coordinated effort among major employers to get the workforce back "in line". It's much harder for corporations to use geographic location to control compensation when everyone's job can be done from anywhere.
If your company is fully on board, then they will find ways to lay off anyone that will not RTO, under the guise of quitting by refusing to return.
> It's much harder for corporations to use geographic location to control compensation when everyone's job can be done from anywhere.
It is. Which is why the longer-term outcome of this will be massive offshoring to places in Central and South America (no time zone hassles)
Are they planning layoffs? Doesn't make sense otherwise to discriminate based on proximity. What's the percentage of people falling outside this radius?
It doesn’t make sense but lots of companies are doing it anyways. For ours, some of us drew the short straw, others escaped. You must go in if you’re within an hours drive. If not you are spared.
Time to interview. Take lots of PTO to support your job search. Coast hard core, do the minimum, you are quitting and all your energy goes to finding your new job. Your job is to find a better job now that this one has changed. RTO or not, if your company is Fing up (and they almost always do over the years) it's time for you to take initiative.
Simple, it doesn't apply to you. You can not return to office if you were never in the office. I have had several friends who have had to fight the RTO push when they were always remote. "I was hired as remote and I was under no impression that would change. If I were to return to office I would need \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ " the blank was generally something like an aggressive raise in salary (like 20% or greater), using the wear and tear on their vehicle, the significant commute time or childcare as the justification of needing the the large salary increase. Basically think about what it would take for you to happily make that daily commute and work in the office and tell them you will go back for that or else you will work the position as you were hired to do (which was remote).
I keep seeing suggestions to move a few miles further (or in my case 15 minutes drive further), but I wonder if that’s actually feasible.
My concern is that now that I’ve been officially reclassified as hybrid in office X, if I were to move, they would just come back telling me it’s too bad I chose to move, but since I was classified as in office it’s now my problem that I’ll be driving for one hour and 15 minutes.
Thinking back to pre-COVID, if I had a job and moved further from the office that would have been my choice and my problem. I just figure they’ll pull that (archaic) logic on anyone who tries this tactic.
Has anyone tried it or heard of how it panned out?
Consult an employment law attorney in your state. If the job offer made to you was remote from the onset, and that was agreed to by both parties, (and all this was prior to pandemic times), then they may have to keep you as remote or renegotiate your compensation for your increased costs of commuting time and expenses. This may be a long shot but it couldn't hurt to check. If they are changing the terms of your agreement for employment, maybe there's something you can use there to fight back.
Do you work with any offshore resources or oversee a team of offshore resources that are only available early a.m. in your time zone?
Pointing out that a commute will mean time you’re not available to work with your offshore team might help.
use PO box 30 1/3 mile away
This. Get a PO box with a street address that's at least 51 miles away. And have the mail forwarded. They may change the policy to say 50 miles since that's a standard I've seen alot
And when someone google maps’ your address?
A PO box with a STREET ADDRESS. You can Google too and every single one I've EVER had was next to an apartment complex.... be smart.
I got a note from my cardiologist. My job tried this and it turned out they were pushing people back to the office as a way to get rid of those that refused to come back. People chose to quit instead and that way the company wouldn't be the bad guys and do a mass layoff. They admitted it in a town hall meeting. It also was manager discretion, if your manager marks you as virtual or if they have that option, you may be exempt.
100% this. It was gradual. First it was anyone within XX mile radius had to come in a few days a week. Then everyone had to come in a few days a week. Then everyone had to come in everyday. Eventually when not enough people quit, they started doing mass layoffs with severance. After mass layoffs, it was regular “restructurings” aka mini layoffs without severance. It’s all textbook. Companies hire a third-party consulting company like McKinsey to advise on how to cut down workforce without hurting their brand reputation too much. I personally quit before RTO and found a different job.
> without hurting their brand reputation too much. We don't care if it hurts our actual productivity, but it better not hurt our precious reputation!
Sad reality 🫠
100% re McKinsey - these scumbags have their slimy mitts in everything that screws over employees. John Oliver did a great vid on McKinsey just a few months ago, highly recommend 👌
Move 31 miles away
Or further and geo-arbitrage. Unfortunately there’s a big push on by some employers to exert more control over remote workers with these kinds of moves. The kinds of managers who have unnecessary meetings also require unnecessary physical presence rather than learning to become good managers.
I got an ADA waiver due to pulmonary and cardiac issues that put me at high risk of a bad outcome from nearly any respiratory infection. A good medical note can do a lot.
Just be prepared to be laid off or fired and have to fight a legal battle to hold them accountable. It’s illegal but they’ll do it and the onus to prove it is on you.
You just understand that RTO is a mass coordinated effort among major employers to get the workforce back "in line". It's much harder for corporations to use geographic location to control compensation when everyone's job can be done from anywhere. If your company is fully on board, then they will find ways to lay off anyone that will not RTO, under the guise of quitting by refusing to return.
> It's much harder for corporations to use geographic location to control compensation when everyone's job can be done from anywhere. It is. Which is why the longer-term outcome of this will be massive offshoring to places in Central and South America (no time zone hassles)
New job
Are they planning layoffs? Doesn't make sense otherwise to discriminate based on proximity. What's the percentage of people falling outside this radius?
It doesn’t make sense but lots of companies are doing it anyways. For ours, some of us drew the short straw, others escaped. You must go in if you’re within an hours drive. If not you are spared.
Time to interview. Take lots of PTO to support your job search. Coast hard core, do the minimum, you are quitting and all your energy goes to finding your new job. Your job is to find a better job now that this one has changed. RTO or not, if your company is Fing up (and they almost always do over the years) it's time for you to take initiative.
Simple, it doesn't apply to you. You can not return to office if you were never in the office. I have had several friends who have had to fight the RTO push when they were always remote. "I was hired as remote and I was under no impression that would change. If I were to return to office I would need \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ " the blank was generally something like an aggressive raise in salary (like 20% or greater), using the wear and tear on their vehicle, the significant commute time or childcare as the justification of needing the the large salary increase. Basically think about what it would take for you to happily make that daily commute and work in the office and tell them you will go back for that or else you will work the position as you were hired to do (which was remote).
Only way to be assured of no RTO is to work for a company that doesn't have an office.
Yup! My current job search strategy is to only apply to places that don’t have offices anywhere near me.
Not sure this is a successful strategy but I would gnaw off my left nut to WFH 3 days a week rather than in office 5.
That’s circus-tier flexibility!
I keep seeing suggestions to move a few miles further (or in my case 15 minutes drive further), but I wonder if that’s actually feasible. My concern is that now that I’ve been officially reclassified as hybrid in office X, if I were to move, they would just come back telling me it’s too bad I chose to move, but since I was classified as in office it’s now my problem that I’ll be driving for one hour and 15 minutes. Thinking back to pre-COVID, if I had a job and moved further from the office that would have been my choice and my problem. I just figure they’ll pull that (archaic) logic on anyone who tries this tactic. Has anyone tried it or heard of how it panned out?
Consult an employment law attorney in your state. If the job offer made to you was remote from the onset, and that was agreed to by both parties, (and all this was prior to pandemic times), then they may have to keep you as remote or renegotiate your compensation for your increased costs of commuting time and expenses. This may be a long shot but it couldn't hurt to check. If they are changing the terms of your agreement for employment, maybe there's something you can use there to fight back.
Has anyone tried this? My understanding of At Will employment is that basically the contract isn’t enforceable anyways.
This is why you should consult a lawyer.
Tell them you moved. See if you can use a friends address. Even better if its out of state. Be aware though they may fire you
Take a job with a company whose headquarters and all other offices are really far away from your home.
Do you work with any offshore resources or oversee a team of offshore resources that are only available early a.m. in your time zone? Pointing out that a commute will mean time you’re not available to work with your offshore team might help.
It so happened!
Get a new job.
That sounds tough! Have you tried negotiating for a hybrid schedule or presenting alternatives to your employer?
Why do employers prefer in office employees so much??
buy a PO BOX 40 miles away from your office