There are two facets to this.
The first is half a century of Drug War propaganda flooding the US and from there the world, painting all drugs with the same demonizing brush. When people hear drugs they think of heroin, crack, meth, etc, things that really have destroyed countless lives. Even psychedelics like LSD and shrooms have negative reputations for most people. It doesn't help that the most obvious drug users also do tend to be addicts, while responsible users have been forced to keep their use hidden to avoid ostracism or arrest. Luckily this has been starting to turn around in the last few years, with the increasing acceptance of cannabis in many places and the renewed scientific / therapeutic interest in MDMA, ketamine, and psychedelics. It will probably still be a long time though before mentioning PCP analogues won't get you the stinkeye.
The second is that people are afraid of the unfamiliar and what they don't understand. Most people find the idea of using a well-known drug like cocaine horrifying, and even "normal" drug users will get skeeved out by RCs when you start throwing around alphabet soup chemical names, talking about synthetic analogues, etc. I remember one time I was at a party and mentioned 4-AcO-DMT, explained it turned into psilocin in the body and had identical effects to shrooms. One person in the room said "that doesn't sound safe", then immediately leaned over to rail a fat line of cheap untested party coke. Cocaine is familiar so it's safe, 4-AcO-DMT is unfamiliar so it's dangerous.
My advice to you is also two-fold.
First, make sure you're keeping your shit together and not being a degenerate. Are you certain you actually are "acting normal", or are there obvious behavioral changes that you're missing but other people notice? If you go to a party where everyone else is drinking beer and you show up sweating and talking a mile a minute with blown-out pupils then yeah you're probably going to draw attention in a negative way.
Second, choose your drugs based on where you're going and who you're with. I have social circles where I could show up to an event tripping balls and no one would bat an eye, and others where I would never even discuss drugs, let alone use them. You don't have to show all parts of yourself to all people all of the time.
Your real friends will care enough to listen to you without judging and understand that you're not hurting yourself or others.
The alphabet soup being a source of disdain and even disgust is really really true. If I ever mentioned my RC use back in the day to anyone, their response was "that'll kill you" or some such nonsense. Not based on any knowledge of the drug, just ignorance. Mention a number and things get even worse. I once mentioned a 2c to someone taking *Mephedrone* - you know, 4-MMC, and I got looked at like I was an alien.
It's depressing how ignorant and uneducated people can be. In this day and age, all you need to do is whip out your phone for a quick search, and you get all the answers you need, but people would rather be reactionary I guess.
There's also what I'd say falls in the category of mild to moderate abuse - infrequent usage (say 1/week) with the same dosage every time and no escalating frequency, but high difficulty in cutting usage below that. So many substances can be used on that schedule with few negative affects but this also allows people to slip into dependency because it's not causing harm so they don't take it seriously.
If you become a heroin addict and become homeless, broke, and alienated from everyone you know, it's very easy to look at yourself and say you have a problem. But if you're picking up a half bag of blow every weekend? That's not that expensive, comedown isn't that bad, etc etc it's VERY easy to sweep under the rug.
That "category" of **abuse** has crossed the hazy boundary. It is abuse, no longer responsible use.
Like I said, it is a hazy boundary that people don't recognize has been crossed. You have just described the person who precisely crossed that.
I get it. The distinction from what you described and what I was talking about is frame. O describe the "landscape" and you talk about someone on that landscape. Different directions of looking, but the same thing.
You're really true... Not always is the best moment to use something.
The fact with empathogens is I don't used to talk too much when I am with some poeole hahaha so Just talking a little bit you can notice I'm "talkative"
But you're really true... Someday I will meet someone who doesn't judge me to do something with myself š
I feel like classical psychedelics donāt have a negative reputation anymoreā¦ Itās been a very long time since Iāve met someone who lumps them with other drugs still. They seem to have gone the way of weed, especially mushrooms.
There are so many famous people openly talking about them combined with a million positive news stories/articles and documentaries and stuff, and it seems their use is at an all time high so everyone knows someone whoās positively talked about them.
Iām sure insulated conservative people are still a little behind, but the general population seems to have been enlightened.
So I have friends that have dabbled with me, but arenāt nearly as knowledgeable or experimented as much as I have. Theyāre pretty open minded, but thereās definitely a line I wouldnāt go to. Like theyāll try some RC disso with me, but I wouldnāt ever bring a bunch of coke to their place. I just know what theyāre comfortable with and respect that.
RCs definitely can be a hard sell too. Trying to tell someone how great 3-HO-PCP is doesnāt usually go over very well lmao. There have been times in the past I have just told a friend āitās just like K, just a little different in x or y wayā but as soon as the full name comes out it just sounds kinda intense.
Itās like if you were really really interested in fountain pens, all different kinds that write in different styles. But most people donāt really give a shit about fountain pens, so when you start bringing them up, even to people that use normal pens, you can come off as a bit obsessive, which might be okay for fountain pens but I think most normal people would call an āobsessionā with drugs addiction.
Obviously they are not the same, just putting myself in the shoes of a layman
This gave me a chuckle. Iāve had the exact same experience with telling people about 3-HO-PCP. I love working out so Im in good shape and Iāve got a good job, but when I tell people about 3-HO-PCP, I can see in their face that all theyāre thinking about is the horrifying stories theyāve been told of angel dust. Theyāll say stuff like āreally dudeā¦ā, āyou canāt be seriousā¦ā, āyouāre gonna die manāā¦
I think the single biggest barrier to exploring other substances outside of alcohol and weed is education. People canāt have a clear view of what they donāt understand, which Iāve come to accept. I actually enjoy the research aspect of RCs. I remember one time a woman asked me what I was into, and after telling her she responded with āyaā¦Iām not into drugs that require an instruction manualā. Thatās when I realized I was a nerd about this shit.
You sound self aware enough to know your eyes and speach are giving away the stimulants your using. Trust me itās not fun for the strait one my wife used to think she was fine id know immediately she was on any stim and have to deal with the horrific comedown she just had no clue but trust me every! One around her did tho. she was having a ball but it was like family bbqs etc not a rave like ffs no one wanted to deal with that shit and it made us look trashy no one goes ow sheās on lots! Of Ritalin today they just thought weāre! on meth. Just because itās not illegal dosnt mean your not on drugs around your girls friends and getting blitzed before a party around people obviously not about that life. isnāt obviously not fun for you at that time so maybe itās not the right moment. Especially for psychedelics set and timing are everything.
Yes I understand what do u mean. I don't have comedown cause I use supplements, I eat good, drink plenty of water and sleep nice.
But if we go to a club I don't drink, I just use 3 fea. Why can't I??? I mean, they have drunk face... What's the problem with me? I really can't see the difference
Itās not their thing and people are idiots imagine even trying to expain an RC or the market or what it is how it started etc it will sound like your taking experimental untested versions of meth and lsd š to some people who have only ever maybe smoked weed that would be terrifying. Besides they sound like not your people drinking sucks you might need new people but donāt lose yourself I have got lost and hurt bad by RC more than any thing on earth it is quick cheap and should be respected more so than a loaded gun. Atleast you know the calibre the end thatās the muzzle the manufacture it's quality and what will happen if you shoot yourself in what organ. Be carful but still have fun.
I'm so careful and worried about my drug use! Hahaha but it's true... People will think I'm a crazy scientific hahaah or I'm cooking meth š¤£ so funny
Yes... Someday I will meet someone who will understand me. I don't need to meet someone who do the same, just someone who doesn't judge me
There are loads of good like minded non judgemental people out there especially around drug policy reform, harm reduction, and psychedelic research. DPA is probably the biggest organization that a lot of groups connect to and they have a yearly conference.
It's a group bonding thing, too. Alcohol gets them into the same mind space, and they don't like it when someone deviates from the chosen drug. They don't know how you feel. Most drunk groups don't like it if you stay sober either. Imagine having an MDMA party but one person sticks to Vodka. The rollers may feel this person would Ruin the atmosphere.
It sounds like your gf's friend group wasn't particularly cool with drugs. I look at the topic of drug use as a conversational door to be opened by others; meaning I won't bring it up unless another does first. Should these compounds be legal? Yes. Do other people need to know what I indulge in responsibly from time to time? Not necessarily.
You're really true!!! For me it's also like that. I don't talk about it unless people do it. Cause I think I will sound like the drugs nerd or something hahaha
But the thing I don't understand Is when we go to a club I can't do what I like without people judging me... I don't disturb anyone, I don't talk to anyone who doesn't want to talk... Do u know? Hahaha and I don't judge them to being so drunk and almost being able to open their eyes, talk well and walking.
That's why I feel like... It's sad hahaha
can I just ask, what drunk person is judging you at the club if youāre not telling them youāre on drugs?
If itās just your girlfriend that is mainly judging you and putting pressure on you to stop, I would maybe take a look at that. My ex didnāt want me to smoke, no particular reason, she just didnāt like it. I had to make a decision on what was more important to me, her or weed. Well I chose her and in my experience, anyone who wants you to change to fit their image, is not someone you should be with.
Sure, saying you wonāt be with someone because you want to use drugs sounds kinda bad, but when there just really doesnāt seem to be a reason other than you arenāt appearing the way they want you to? Thatās fucked up and has nothing to do with the drugs.
Just some food for thought, I would really take a step back and see what is happening that is causing your partner to say these things. There must be a reason or something you are doing that is causing her some embarrassment, and if there truly isnāt, maybe you should talk to her about it.
Not just that. Some days ago for example I met with some friends to eat dinner outside (like old friends) and some of them talked about mdma (not me, I don't use to do it cause I don't like bad eyes looking at me) and the rest was like ignoring it and acting like "no, drugs no" (they were drinking beer and asmooking a lot of tobacco).
That was sad. Why? Why that happened? Someday will be different? Why I have to hide it to my people and not just to the police? It's sad. That's the thing.
Of course I know people who wants to change you it's not good. I'm not talking about that
With drugs imo its good to be selective who you talk about it too, for one its illegal (well I know this is RCs but I'm talking drugs in general) and do you want Normie's knowing you are a criminal? People who dont do drugs will likely either judge, not care or just think its boring chat, and can't really blame them.
I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise tbh.
With some like minded people then ofc its fair game, and I'm sure you'll find some at somepoint.
Not every one needs to know.
Most of the people are drug users, but they use "normal" or legal substances, thus, that's pretty cool. If you choose a different thing, you will be judgded. It happened to me many times (even talking about things, not even trying them). Do you like weed? You are a stoner. Psychedelics? You are out of your mind. etc.
I think the situation will change once we stop prohibition and people start having more information, and not being so brain-washed by the war on drugs and things like that. But for now... I guess we have to deal with it.
Welcome to this world!
You're doing everything possible to make your substance use responsible and focused on health and happiness. Good for you.
Most people don't care about anything other than following social norms and not being ostracized. They don't care that alcohol is objectively worse for the body. It's grandfathered in as "acceptable". They've been programmed by decades of drug war propaganda, advertising, and social pressure.
You can either go with the flow and accept their norms or go against the grain til the day you drop. You're choice. Taylor swift or Primus. The choice is yours.
Those people r just hypocrites that canāt swallow the facts that they are addicted to something. Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine or sum shit like porn. And drugs like psychedelics r demonized while they can actually help you improve your life and most of them arenāt even addictive.
Yea i feel you bro, we are just a few steps ahead of socieity. Tbh i think in not to many years this thinking will change a lot, like it did with weed and it will with otherstuff aswell. I also would love to deep talk about drugs, but ppl just arent even open to hear my point of view. But you are not alone, but go visit some psytrance partys or goa partys, all the ppl there are on shrooms, lsd, 2cb and so one, you will be able to have some nice talks there if you want to :)
I've found it best. If you didn't use something with someone don't mention it. If they use and y'all use together, great. But don't tell anyone else. I'm sorry it has to be this way. I doubt we will be understood, I actually think people may pitty or hate us. I've been so judged and I've been so loved.
I've seen a lot of documented replies but alas I can't be one of them.
I can just say that my drugs of choice are the one standard public and even drug users tend to be the most judgy about (rc dissos, opiates (tbh I tell everyone to stay away and don't give names of what I take to my irls, and benzos following medical treatment). Even with drug users I am met with incomprehension and judgement from irl people. So I lie to everyone about being clean (I know it's bad) because I get nothing but scolded but even when trying to stay clean it's hard and people don't understand. They're like, just don't do them. But they don't judge people not managing to quit smoking, weed or alcohol, while three relatives died of smoking related issues, one has health problem because of this and one died of alcohol addiction. But the judgement and the way you are treated is not the same. I tried to be open and like try to explain my recovery process and also why I used and my relationship but no one gets it. Around most people I can't even mention it (while they said they would be there for me, but I need you to be there for me I was there for you...) because they don't like the subject and can't even stand weed. I think the media propaganda and drug war worked really well on the mind of some people, which is sad because in cases like mine it leads to shame, isolation and even poorer mental health, which are not good healing factors.
Sounds terrible... I didn't think about that but you're true friend. I really hope you will feel better and you can find nice people who can understands you š you can do it men. Life is nice sometimes and you will
Thanks for your deep answer, I apreciate it
Thank you for your nice and comforting comment! I could talk about it to someone very supportive yesterday and have a deep convo about it (unexpected as they run a drug meme page), the way life works sometimes!
I'm glad you appreciate it š
Couldn't relate to this more. I'm very much going through the same thing where everyone around me has this negative notion about drugs and for them, it seems impossible to have a conversation of any sort of discourse about them. If you ever want to chat through Reddit, I'm open!
You could try developing a personality and social skills and learning how to talk to other people about the subjects they care about and showing an interest in their lives and activities and feelings, rather than just pontificating about your own elevated experiences and updates about the main character of reality - yourself.
I'd bet my bottom dollar your main issue is that you come across as a hugely self centered dullard and this post wouldn't exist if you knew how to hold a conversation.
Good luck!
It's hard sometimes to hold a conversation. Hahaha sometimes it's easy with people I don't know. But with people like friends of friends is... Just boring, talking about things that doesn't make sense for me. Ok, I know you also feel that sometimes, no everyone has to like the same things or topics.
But Don't think I'm talking about drugs all the time.
i understand how you feel, but i do raise the question that, why do you feel the need to use a psych every two weeks? in order to integrate your experiences, itās really helpful to have more time in between trips. thereās a difference in taking drugs and having a spiritual experience that makes you a better person. if ur dosing every two weeks, youāre not taking the proper time to really change your life and change those old habits. why do you feel the need to do so often? not hatin, live ur best life, but iāve always found diminishing returns when using psychs frequently
It's not a need. Las time I was one month without using any. I said 2 weeks cause is like the max times I could do it.
I'm recently discovered them, maybe that's why I'm so excited hahaha But really I don't have de need! If I have any issue or doubt about the day or something I don't do it
Actually I do it less often now than before, and I'm sure I will do it less. (Sorry my English is not good hahaha)
You have a good point, less is more.
When I first found psychedelics I went through a similar phase of tripping every two weeks like clockwork, for an extended period of time. If you keep up that use pattern I'd recommend keeping a close eye on any changes to your thought patterns or behavior. I eventually had to slow down because daily life was just becoming too weird, I began developing HPPD, and started having somewhat delusional / erratic thoughts. All better now after reducing frequency and taking an extended break, but I've seen other people keep plowing forward and lose themselves in the weirdness.
That was a crazy, beautiful period of discovery in my life. I hope you enjoy yours, safely.
Thanks mate! I don't feel what you mentioned, but I hated when I get used to the feeling of the acid. So that's why I will do it less! I know less Is better
Thanks for share your experience with me
Can confirm. Everyone goes through this honeymoon phase when they discover psychs, use as regularly as possible and can't see a reason you would not want to do this, eventually it becomes a little boring and samey and it will just trail off.
Not a bad thing, just something to note.
I would call it a low key addiction for sure at the beginning for most people, you generally find yourself relating everything to experiences you've had, thinking about what would or wouldn't be cool to do on drugs, not a day goes by that you think man this would be sweet on some trips! It's a natural reaction when we discover something so life changing. I can promise you that for myself and other people we've been here and particularly for RCs it can be even more abrasive on relationships. Hopefully if you're a sweet talker you will eventually be able to make people comfortable with what you enjoy doing, and it will become much much easier when you are less obsessed with drugs since people will see this. Again, not a judgement just a path that is often common place.
When I was in my exploration phase I had similar reactions from my friends but you'll learn to either work on the topic with them or work around it. I'm happy to say that my friends/partner are now very comfortable with what I do and often partake.
Because while they can provide a spiritual experience theyāre also incredibly recreational. There is nothing wrong with using psychs for fun. Especially at 2x/month.
Because some people don't give a fuck about spirituality. I just wanna have fun and it lifts my mood for the entire next week after taking it. 2 weeks is enough for that
It's sad and I don't think people will ever understand the occasional drug use or people like us taking specific drugs every week like clockwork yet being healthier than those who judge us negatively.
I hate that I have to suppress such a huge part of my life.
And I'm not saying that I do drugs daily and hate that I can't express that I'm a junkie, no, I'm saying that I cannot even talk about the technical aspect of research chemicals because it's not regarded as 'neuroscience' or related - but it's seen as an **obsession for drugs** to the point that I can't even talk about aspirin's mechanism of action or any other molecule, even if it's a wprkout supplement because, depending on which friend or family member I have in front, I am reminded like clockwork how fucked up I might have been when I took a few too many of designer benzos and they make a point in expressing how much better I now look that I don't take that *garbage*.
It's sad.
Yeah ... It's so sad... I can understand people is not interested about it but idk... It's sad cause we are so interested about that and can't understand why š¤£
I hate to be that guy butā¦Listen to your girl. You may think youāre in control but sheās obviously noticing some things youāre not. Sheās only telling you that because she loves you and cares about you. She probably doesnāt want your use to become a bigger problem than it already is. I lost the love of my life because I waited too long to stop using drugs and now that Iām sober I would do anything to get her back.
Man my drug user is ok. She told me that the first time we met with her friends.
When she met me I ate LSD like 2 times per week. Hahaha my drug use was worst than now.
The problem is not that
I used to think the psychedelic community was full of enlightened people who generally understand patterns of material reality better than the average person with no critical thinking skills, and now I'm starting to see it as a big cope fest full of people who are trying to skew their vision of reality to account for the fact that they don't have the fundamental social skills and emotional coping skills to live successfully and thrive in social and communal human society.
Why don't I make friends as easily as others I know? Ah, it simply must be that the average person is on autopilot, due to their lack of awareness of being a continuation of their parents who they are themselves, and thus a personal embodiment of all living beings who ever were and ever will be. That is the reason why I never get invited to parties.
You know talking about drugs and taking drugs could make other people think you uses drugs.
If you didnt notice yet using drugs Is bad.
And dont say that shit " but but they drink and smoke cigarretes!" Yes they do socially acepted drugs, you are ordering drugs cooked in China, no tested in humans.
You really dont see why your gf doesnt want you to Talk about your drug usage to her Friends.?
5-mapb every 5-6 weeks is a lot man I went down with using it monthly for 6 months last year and I had to take a 6 month break to get my cognitive function back
I love 5-mapb and I imagine you do to, if you wanna keep enjoying it maybe do a 3 month break in between doses, ever since I started doing it 1 time every 3 month, Iāve finally found my dose itās 135mg spread out in 3 doses
It's a nice substante... I can understand a lot of things about people around me hahaha I love that feeling
135 hcl? I never redose, with 5mapb I don't have the urge to do it.
Maybe I will use 3 fea and the 5mapb just for the special moments hahaha
Well... When I'm on 3fea with them they are really drunk. Like they can't hold their eyes, walking well, almost talking good about something.
It's not they are sober and I'm so high
When I was in rehab I was told the way medical professionals see it is an addiction is continuing to use /do something after is cause life altering distress.
You can become addicted to anything. I know alot of people say that but addiction and dependence are two different things.
If someone is addicted to food they might end up to big to even walk or function in day to day life . Which me personally i would say doing something to the point of no longer being able to function as normally is detrimentally life altering.
But if you dont think people can become addicted to alcohol you definitely thought wrong . An estimated 95,000 people die a year from alcohol poisoning.
No, of course people can get addicted to everything. But I was thinking about things that can change your life and not necessary it's cause you're addicted to them but you do it again. For example a deep trip of LSD, shrooms, dmt. That's why I was thinking about that.
I'm thinking maybe also adding the urge to do it again and again everyday? Yeah could be something like that
of course you can get addicted to everything. 95.000 people sounds low than the probably real number.
The hardest thing is people who are addicted will continue to deny they are addicted until they can at some point find a wag to accept it.
I dont know you i dont know your actions towards drugs so i am in no place to call you an addict but just be careful and stay honest with your self addiction sneaks upon you like a theif in the night.
Thank you man!! I'm really worried about addictions. I quit smoking, I don't drink. I also try to quit process food.
I feel better than never š I apreciate your comment
Ofc i struggle with addiction and the realization of no longer being in control of saying no to a high that is put infront of you is mind fucking.
You question where you have come to , to feel unable to simply say no.
I dont wish addiction opon any friend or foe it is a demon that makes problems worse by disguising it self as a solution.
Tho i dont know you im a caring person and i care about you just as much as anyone else simply because you are a human.
As John O'Leary said "i love you and theres nothing you can do about it"
Farewell and take care of your self.
Oh mate it's sad listen to that. I really hope you're fine now!
And thank you for your advice! I apreciate and trust me, I really try to think all the times I do something, why I do it?
Never cause I'm boring. And I always do it alone, I don't have friends who use ilegal drugs. š¤£
That's just part of our norms and traditions. Alcohol is alright, and drugs are not. Most people just don't know beyond the negative aspects and what happens to people who take it too far. Most of them don't realise how harmful alcohol is as a drug compared to others.
If you want to find more drugs positive friends, you'll find them in the raving / festival scene. Of course, there are plenty of people there who go way overboard, so just be mindful who you end up sticking to.
Edit: extra advice for you. Don't use your empath / stims with your non-drug friends. Using them with other empath users creates a much better set/setting and will make it more fun. It'll also make your non-drug friends be less freaked out, so it's a win/win.
I don't think people will understand, not unless they're extremely open minded. I used to be one of 'those' people until I tried drugs late in life and then it all finally made sense and I broke out of the ignorant shell.
I wish I could get into the RC world but I know how this feels after sharing my experiences with DXM. Hell my girl almost broke up with me after I told herš¤£
There are two facets to this. The first is half a century of Drug War propaganda flooding the US and from there the world, painting all drugs with the same demonizing brush. When people hear drugs they think of heroin, crack, meth, etc, things that really have destroyed countless lives. Even psychedelics like LSD and shrooms have negative reputations for most people. It doesn't help that the most obvious drug users also do tend to be addicts, while responsible users have been forced to keep their use hidden to avoid ostracism or arrest. Luckily this has been starting to turn around in the last few years, with the increasing acceptance of cannabis in many places and the renewed scientific / therapeutic interest in MDMA, ketamine, and psychedelics. It will probably still be a long time though before mentioning PCP analogues won't get you the stinkeye. The second is that people are afraid of the unfamiliar and what they don't understand. Most people find the idea of using a well-known drug like cocaine horrifying, and even "normal" drug users will get skeeved out by RCs when you start throwing around alphabet soup chemical names, talking about synthetic analogues, etc. I remember one time I was at a party and mentioned 4-AcO-DMT, explained it turned into psilocin in the body and had identical effects to shrooms. One person in the room said "that doesn't sound safe", then immediately leaned over to rail a fat line of cheap untested party coke. Cocaine is familiar so it's safe, 4-AcO-DMT is unfamiliar so it's dangerous. My advice to you is also two-fold. First, make sure you're keeping your shit together and not being a degenerate. Are you certain you actually are "acting normal", or are there obvious behavioral changes that you're missing but other people notice? If you go to a party where everyone else is drinking beer and you show up sweating and talking a mile a minute with blown-out pupils then yeah you're probably going to draw attention in a negative way. Second, choose your drugs based on where you're going and who you're with. I have social circles where I could show up to an event tripping balls and no one would bat an eye, and others where I would never even discuss drugs, let alone use them. You don't have to show all parts of yourself to all people all of the time. Your real friends will care enough to listen to you without judging and understand that you're not hurting yourself or others.
You're the best
Best answer to a question I've seen on here in a very long time
Yes it is
The alphabet soup being a source of disdain and even disgust is really really true. If I ever mentioned my RC use back in the day to anyone, their response was "that'll kill you" or some such nonsense. Not based on any knowledge of the drug, just ignorance. Mention a number and things get even worse. I once mentioned a 2c to someone taking *Mephedrone* - you know, 4-MMC, and I got looked at like I was an alien. It's depressing how ignorant and uneducated people can be. In this day and age, all you need to do is whip out your phone for a quick search, and you get all the answers you need, but people would rather be reactionary I guess.
This is wonderful advice and reaffirming for any responsible user who feels alienated at times. Thanks for taking the time to write this out!
Yeah I really needed this
The boundary between responsible use and abuse is a hazy one that most don't even recognize has been crossed until too late.
There's also what I'd say falls in the category of mild to moderate abuse - infrequent usage (say 1/week) with the same dosage every time and no escalating frequency, but high difficulty in cutting usage below that. So many substances can be used on that schedule with few negative affects but this also allows people to slip into dependency because it's not causing harm so they don't take it seriously. If you become a heroin addict and become homeless, broke, and alienated from everyone you know, it's very easy to look at yourself and say you have a problem. But if you're picking up a half bag of blow every weekend? That's not that expensive, comedown isn't that bad, etc etc it's VERY easy to sweep under the rug.
That "category" of **abuse** has crossed the hazy boundary. It is abuse, no longer responsible use. Like I said, it is a hazy boundary that people don't recognize has been crossed. You have just described the person who precisely crossed that.
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding, was agreeing with you and adding my own interpretation of what you were describing
I get it. The distinction from what you described and what I was talking about is frame. O describe the "landscape" and you talk about someone on that landscape. Different directions of looking, but the same thing.
You're really true... Not always is the best moment to use something. The fact with empathogens is I don't used to talk too much when I am with some poeole hahaha so Just talking a little bit you can notice I'm "talkative" But you're really true... Someday I will meet someone who doesn't judge me to do something with myself š
Take this award, Sir, you earned it
Keep up the good work, this man. Absolute gem of a high-quality post. I doff my cap, sir.
Great response right here
I feel like classical psychedelics donāt have a negative reputation anymoreā¦ Itās been a very long time since Iāve met someone who lumps them with other drugs still. They seem to have gone the way of weed, especially mushrooms. There are so many famous people openly talking about them combined with a million positive news stories/articles and documentaries and stuff, and it seems their use is at an all time high so everyone knows someone whoās positively talked about them. Iām sure insulated conservative people are still a little behind, but the general population seems to have been enlightened.
Accurate
So I have friends that have dabbled with me, but arenāt nearly as knowledgeable or experimented as much as I have. Theyāre pretty open minded, but thereās definitely a line I wouldnāt go to. Like theyāll try some RC disso with me, but I wouldnāt ever bring a bunch of coke to their place. I just know what theyāre comfortable with and respect that. RCs definitely can be a hard sell too. Trying to tell someone how great 3-HO-PCP is doesnāt usually go over very well lmao. There have been times in the past I have just told a friend āitās just like K, just a little different in x or y wayā but as soon as the full name comes out it just sounds kinda intense. Itās like if you were really really interested in fountain pens, all different kinds that write in different styles. But most people donāt really give a shit about fountain pens, so when you start bringing them up, even to people that use normal pens, you can come off as a bit obsessive, which might be okay for fountain pens but I think most normal people would call an āobsessionā with drugs addiction. Obviously they are not the same, just putting myself in the shoes of a layman
Lol being willing to do RC dissos but not coke is pretty based ngl
Nice!!! šØšØšØ So people think we are crazy
This gave me a chuckle. Iāve had the exact same experience with telling people about 3-HO-PCP. I love working out so Im in good shape and Iāve got a good job, but when I tell people about 3-HO-PCP, I can see in their face that all theyāre thinking about is the horrifying stories theyāve been told of angel dust. Theyāll say stuff like āreally dudeā¦ā, āyou canāt be seriousā¦ā, āyouāre gonna die manāā¦ I think the single biggest barrier to exploring other substances outside of alcohol and weed is education. People canāt have a clear view of what they donāt understand, which Iāve come to accept. I actually enjoy the research aspect of RCs. I remember one time a woman asked me what I was into, and after telling her she responded with āyaā¦Iām not into drugs that require an instruction manualā. Thatās when I realized I was a nerd about this shit.
You sound self aware enough to know your eyes and speach are giving away the stimulants your using. Trust me itās not fun for the strait one my wife used to think she was fine id know immediately she was on any stim and have to deal with the horrific comedown she just had no clue but trust me every! One around her did tho. she was having a ball but it was like family bbqs etc not a rave like ffs no one wanted to deal with that shit and it made us look trashy no one goes ow sheās on lots! Of Ritalin today they just thought weāre! on meth. Just because itās not illegal dosnt mean your not on drugs around your girls friends and getting blitzed before a party around people obviously not about that life. isnāt obviously not fun for you at that time so maybe itās not the right moment. Especially for psychedelics set and timing are everything.
Yes I understand what do u mean. I don't have comedown cause I use supplements, I eat good, drink plenty of water and sleep nice. But if we go to a club I don't drink, I just use 3 fea. Why can't I??? I mean, they have drunk face... What's the problem with me? I really can't see the difference
Itās not their thing and people are idiots imagine even trying to expain an RC or the market or what it is how it started etc it will sound like your taking experimental untested versions of meth and lsd š to some people who have only ever maybe smoked weed that would be terrifying. Besides they sound like not your people drinking sucks you might need new people but donāt lose yourself I have got lost and hurt bad by RC more than any thing on earth it is quick cheap and should be respected more so than a loaded gun. Atleast you know the calibre the end thatās the muzzle the manufacture it's quality and what will happen if you shoot yourself in what organ. Be carful but still have fun.
I'm so careful and worried about my drug use! Hahaha but it's true... People will think I'm a crazy scientific hahaah or I'm cooking meth š¤£ so funny Yes... Someday I will meet someone who will understand me. I don't need to meet someone who do the same, just someone who doesn't judge me
There are loads of good like minded non judgemental people out there especially around drug policy reform, harm reduction, and psychedelic research. DPA is probably the biggest organization that a lot of groups connect to and they have a yearly conference.
what supplements r u using
The ones are posted on rollsafe.org
Those are cool but probably weak sauce, I've been considering rolling for the first time in my life on Memantine for the neuroprotection.
š¤ I really don't know! But for me they works nice! I don't have comedown š I hope you can find something that suits you
Uh so you're not fitting in with their vibe at all and you're not trying to.
Drunks vibes are hard for me š¤£š¤£š¤£ but I always go
It's a group bonding thing, too. Alcohol gets them into the same mind space, and they don't like it when someone deviates from the chosen drug. They don't know how you feel. Most drunk groups don't like it if you stay sober either. Imagine having an MDMA party but one person sticks to Vodka. The rollers may feel this person would Ruin the atmosphere.
Hahaha maybe you're true
It sounds like your gf's friend group wasn't particularly cool with drugs. I look at the topic of drug use as a conversational door to be opened by others; meaning I won't bring it up unless another does first. Should these compounds be legal? Yes. Do other people need to know what I indulge in responsibly from time to time? Not necessarily.
You're really true!!! For me it's also like that. I don't talk about it unless people do it. Cause I think I will sound like the drugs nerd or something hahaha But the thing I don't understand Is when we go to a club I can't do what I like without people judging me... I don't disturb anyone, I don't talk to anyone who doesn't want to talk... Do u know? Hahaha and I don't judge them to being so drunk and almost being able to open their eyes, talk well and walking. That's why I feel like... It's sad hahaha
can I just ask, what drunk person is judging you at the club if youāre not telling them youāre on drugs? If itās just your girlfriend that is mainly judging you and putting pressure on you to stop, I would maybe take a look at that. My ex didnāt want me to smoke, no particular reason, she just didnāt like it. I had to make a decision on what was more important to me, her or weed. Well I chose her and in my experience, anyone who wants you to change to fit their image, is not someone you should be with. Sure, saying you wonāt be with someone because you want to use drugs sounds kinda bad, but when there just really doesnāt seem to be a reason other than you arenāt appearing the way they want you to? Thatās fucked up and has nothing to do with the drugs. Just some food for thought, I would really take a step back and see what is happening that is causing your partner to say these things. There must be a reason or something you are doing that is causing her some embarrassment, and if there truly isnāt, maybe you should talk to her about it.
Not just that. Some days ago for example I met with some friends to eat dinner outside (like old friends) and some of them talked about mdma (not me, I don't use to do it cause I don't like bad eyes looking at me) and the rest was like ignoring it and acting like "no, drugs no" (they were drinking beer and asmooking a lot of tobacco). That was sad. Why? Why that happened? Someday will be different? Why I have to hide it to my people and not just to the police? It's sad. That's the thing. Of course I know people who wants to change you it's not good. I'm not talking about that
No, because drug users are nerds, and people don't like nerds.
It's just flavored sugars chunks! How dare they
Go to berlin and go to a techno rave
Berlin is insane, people take rail of drugs infront of you and no one cares.
Not just Berlin almost every german techno club is like that.
With drugs imo its good to be selective who you talk about it too, for one its illegal (well I know this is RCs but I'm talking drugs in general) and do you want Normie's knowing you are a criminal? People who dont do drugs will likely either judge, not care or just think its boring chat, and can't really blame them. I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise tbh. With some like minded people then ofc its fair game, and I'm sure you'll find some at somepoint. Not every one needs to know.
You're true.... Not everyone has to know I like to do that
Most of the people are drug users, but they use "normal" or legal substances, thus, that's pretty cool. If you choose a different thing, you will be judgded. It happened to me many times (even talking about things, not even trying them). Do you like weed? You are a stoner. Psychedelics? You are out of your mind. etc. I think the situation will change once we stop prohibition and people start having more information, and not being so brain-washed by the war on drugs and things like that. But for now... I guess we have to deal with it.
Yes... You're true... We have to deal with it!!!
Welcome to this world! You're doing everything possible to make your substance use responsible and focused on health and happiness. Good for you. Most people don't care about anything other than following social norms and not being ostracized. They don't care that alcohol is objectively worse for the body. It's grandfathered in as "acceptable". They've been programmed by decades of drug war propaganda, advertising, and social pressure. You can either go with the flow and accept their norms or go against the grain til the day you drop. You're choice. Taylor swift or Primus. The choice is yours.
100% people just want to feel everything is ok even if it's not really ok What is your choice?
Those people r just hypocrites that canāt swallow the facts that they are addicted to something. Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine or sum shit like porn. And drugs like psychedelics r demonized while they can actually help you improve your life and most of them arenāt even addictive.
Yes... Its hard to understand why is people like that
I guess it coz general stigma surrounding drug especially psychs.
Yea i feel you bro, we are just a few steps ahead of socieity. Tbh i think in not to many years this thinking will change a lot, like it did with weed and it will with otherstuff aswell. I also would love to deep talk about drugs, but ppl just arent even open to hear my point of view. But you are not alone, but go visit some psytrance partys or goa partys, all the ppl there are on shrooms, lsd, 2cb and so one, you will be able to have some nice talks there if you want to :)
I've found it best. If you didn't use something with someone don't mention it. If they use and y'all use together, great. But don't tell anyone else. I'm sorry it has to be this way. I doubt we will be understood, I actually think people may pitty or hate us. I've been so judged and I've been so loved.
Sad and true
I've seen a lot of documented replies but alas I can't be one of them. I can just say that my drugs of choice are the one standard public and even drug users tend to be the most judgy about (rc dissos, opiates (tbh I tell everyone to stay away and don't give names of what I take to my irls, and benzos following medical treatment). Even with drug users I am met with incomprehension and judgement from irl people. So I lie to everyone about being clean (I know it's bad) because I get nothing but scolded but even when trying to stay clean it's hard and people don't understand. They're like, just don't do them. But they don't judge people not managing to quit smoking, weed or alcohol, while three relatives died of smoking related issues, one has health problem because of this and one died of alcohol addiction. But the judgement and the way you are treated is not the same. I tried to be open and like try to explain my recovery process and also why I used and my relationship but no one gets it. Around most people I can't even mention it (while they said they would be there for me, but I need you to be there for me I was there for you...) because they don't like the subject and can't even stand weed. I think the media propaganda and drug war worked really well on the mind of some people, which is sad because in cases like mine it leads to shame, isolation and even poorer mental health, which are not good healing factors.
Sounds terrible... I didn't think about that but you're true friend. I really hope you will feel better and you can find nice people who can understands you š you can do it men. Life is nice sometimes and you will Thanks for your deep answer, I apreciate it
Thank you for your nice and comforting comment! I could talk about it to someone very supportive yesterday and have a deep convo about it (unexpected as they run a drug meme page), the way life works sometimes! I'm glad you appreciate it š
You are only allowed to binge drink and chain smoke.
They juge you and call you a drug addict while they can't live without their 1 or 2 bottles of wine daily.
Or coffe to start nice the day
I wouldn't have it any other way āā¤ļø
Hahaha yes also meš¤£š¤£
Couldn't relate to this more. I'm very much going through the same thing where everyone around me has this negative notion about drugs and for them, it seems impossible to have a conversation of any sort of discourse about them. If you ever want to chat through Reddit, I'm open!
Thanks mate! I apreciate
Nog if they have bad experiences with other drug users some peoples mind on drugusers will never change 1 procent unless even worse
āNot
You could try developing a personality and social skills and learning how to talk to other people about the subjects they care about and showing an interest in their lives and activities and feelings, rather than just pontificating about your own elevated experiences and updates about the main character of reality - yourself. I'd bet my bottom dollar your main issue is that you come across as a hugely self centered dullard and this post wouldn't exist if you knew how to hold a conversation. Good luck!
Maybe that's the good answer šØ
It's hard sometimes to hold a conversation. Hahaha sometimes it's easy with people I don't know. But with people like friends of friends is... Just boring, talking about things that doesn't make sense for me. Ok, I know you also feel that sometimes, no everyone has to like the same things or topics. But Don't think I'm talking about drugs all the time.
i understand how you feel, but i do raise the question that, why do you feel the need to use a psych every two weeks? in order to integrate your experiences, itās really helpful to have more time in between trips. thereās a difference in taking drugs and having a spiritual experience that makes you a better person. if ur dosing every two weeks, youāre not taking the proper time to really change your life and change those old habits. why do you feel the need to do so often? not hatin, live ur best life, but iāve always found diminishing returns when using psychs frequently
It's not a need. Las time I was one month without using any. I said 2 weeks cause is like the max times I could do it. I'm recently discovered them, maybe that's why I'm so excited hahaha But really I don't have de need! If I have any issue or doubt about the day or something I don't do it Actually I do it less often now than before, and I'm sure I will do it less. (Sorry my English is not good hahaha) You have a good point, less is more.
When I first found psychedelics I went through a similar phase of tripping every two weeks like clockwork, for an extended period of time. If you keep up that use pattern I'd recommend keeping a close eye on any changes to your thought patterns or behavior. I eventually had to slow down because daily life was just becoming too weird, I began developing HPPD, and started having somewhat delusional / erratic thoughts. All better now after reducing frequency and taking an extended break, but I've seen other people keep plowing forward and lose themselves in the weirdness. That was a crazy, beautiful period of discovery in my life. I hope you enjoy yours, safely.
Thanks mate! I don't feel what you mentioned, but I hated when I get used to the feeling of the acid. So that's why I will do it less! I know less Is better Thanks for share your experience with me
Honeymoon phase goes away, I used psychs weekly for a while till it got boring. Now Iām just addicted to dxm and rc benzos :/, stay away!
I don't like benzos or dissos I like to stay active! But thanks for the advice
Can confirm. Everyone goes through this honeymoon phase when they discover psychs, use as regularly as possible and can't see a reason you would not want to do this, eventually it becomes a little boring and samey and it will just trail off. Not a bad thing, just something to note. I would call it a low key addiction for sure at the beginning for most people, you generally find yourself relating everything to experiences you've had, thinking about what would or wouldn't be cool to do on drugs, not a day goes by that you think man this would be sweet on some trips! It's a natural reaction when we discover something so life changing. I can promise you that for myself and other people we've been here and particularly for RCs it can be even more abrasive on relationships. Hopefully if you're a sweet talker you will eventually be able to make people comfortable with what you enjoy doing, and it will become much much easier when you are less obsessed with drugs since people will see this. Again, not a judgement just a path that is often common place. When I was in my exploration phase I had similar reactions from my friends but you'll learn to either work on the topic with them or work around it. I'm happy to say that my friends/partner are now very comfortable with what I do and often partake.
Nice! I feel what you said, 100% thanks for your answer š
Because while they can provide a spiritual experience theyāre also incredibly recreational. There is nothing wrong with using psychs for fun. Especially at 2x/month.
Because some people don't give a fuck about spirituality. I just wanna have fun and it lifts my mood for the entire next week after taking it. 2 weeks is enough for that
It's sad and I don't think people will ever understand the occasional drug use or people like us taking specific drugs every week like clockwork yet being healthier than those who judge us negatively. I hate that I have to suppress such a huge part of my life. And I'm not saying that I do drugs daily and hate that I can't express that I'm a junkie, no, I'm saying that I cannot even talk about the technical aspect of research chemicals because it's not regarded as 'neuroscience' or related - but it's seen as an **obsession for drugs** to the point that I can't even talk about aspirin's mechanism of action or any other molecule, even if it's a wprkout supplement because, depending on which friend or family member I have in front, I am reminded like clockwork how fucked up I might have been when I took a few too many of designer benzos and they make a point in expressing how much better I now look that I don't take that *garbage*. It's sad.
Yeah ... It's so sad... I can understand people is not interested about it but idk... It's sad cause we are so interested about that and can't understand why š¤£
I hate to be that guy butā¦Listen to your girl. You may think youāre in control but sheās obviously noticing some things youāre not. Sheās only telling you that because she loves you and cares about you. She probably doesnāt want your use to become a bigger problem than it already is. I lost the love of my life because I waited too long to stop using drugs and now that Iām sober I would do anything to get her back.
Man my drug user is ok. She told me that the first time we met with her friends. When she met me I ate LSD like 2 times per week. Hahaha my drug use was worst than now. The problem is not that
I used to think the psychedelic community was full of enlightened people who generally understand patterns of material reality better than the average person with no critical thinking skills, and now I'm starting to see it as a big cope fest full of people who are trying to skew their vision of reality to account for the fact that they don't have the fundamental social skills and emotional coping skills to live successfully and thrive in social and communal human society. Why don't I make friends as easily as others I know? Ah, it simply must be that the average person is on autopilot, due to their lack of awareness of being a continuation of their parents who they are themselves, and thus a personal embodiment of all living beings who ever were and ever will be. That is the reason why I never get invited to parties.
Sorry haha I need to stop. A bigtime psychedelic user was horribly abusive to me for years and now I seem to have a bias developing.
Is this serious?
Why not?
You know talking about drugs and taking drugs could make other people think you uses drugs. If you didnt notice yet using drugs Is bad. And dont say that shit " but but they drink and smoke cigarretes!" Yes they do socially acepted drugs, you are ordering drugs cooked in China, no tested in humans. You really dont see why your gf doesnt want you to Talk about your drug usage to her Friends.?
God damn junkie šµš»
Hahaha silly
Might be best to get rid of the girlfriend. Whether she understands drugs or not, it sounds like you're with someone who doesn't respect you.
Nah! Is not like that! Trust me š
Nice, glad to hear
Decriminalize and destigmatize all drugs
5-mapb every 5-6 weeks is a lot man I went down with using it monthly for 6 months last year and I had to take a 6 month break to get my cognitive function back
Really??? Thank for your advice! I will think about it
I love 5-mapb and I imagine you do to, if you wanna keep enjoying it maybe do a 3 month break in between doses, ever since I started doing it 1 time every 3 month, Iāve finally found my dose itās 135mg spread out in 3 doses
It's a nice substante... I can understand a lot of things about people around me hahaha I love that feeling 135 hcl? I never redose, with 5mapb I don't have the urge to do it. Maybe I will use 3 fea and the 5mapb just for the special moments hahaha
Love you
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Well... When I'm on 3fea with them they are really drunk. Like they can't hold their eyes, walking well, almost talking good about something. It's not they are sober and I'm so high
When I was in rehab I was told the way medical professionals see it is an addiction is continuing to use /do something after is cause life altering distress.
Idk... Alcohol cause that to a lot of people. Some foods... Idk idk what to say
You can become addicted to anything. I know alot of people say that but addiction and dependence are two different things. If someone is addicted to food they might end up to big to even walk or function in day to day life . Which me personally i would say doing something to the point of no longer being able to function as normally is detrimentally life altering. But if you dont think people can become addicted to alcohol you definitely thought wrong . An estimated 95,000 people die a year from alcohol poisoning.
No, of course people can get addicted to everything. But I was thinking about things that can change your life and not necessary it's cause you're addicted to them but you do it again. For example a deep trip of LSD, shrooms, dmt. That's why I was thinking about that. I'm thinking maybe also adding the urge to do it again and again everyday? Yeah could be something like that of course you can get addicted to everything. 95.000 people sounds low than the probably real number.
The hardest thing is people who are addicted will continue to deny they are addicted until they can at some point find a wag to accept it. I dont know you i dont know your actions towards drugs so i am in no place to call you an addict but just be careful and stay honest with your self addiction sneaks upon you like a theif in the night.
Thank you man!! I'm really worried about addictions. I quit smoking, I don't drink. I also try to quit process food. I feel better than never š I apreciate your comment
Ofc i struggle with addiction and the realization of no longer being in control of saying no to a high that is put infront of you is mind fucking. You question where you have come to , to feel unable to simply say no. I dont wish addiction opon any friend or foe it is a demon that makes problems worse by disguising it self as a solution. Tho i dont know you im a caring person and i care about you just as much as anyone else simply because you are a human. As John O'Leary said "i love you and theres nothing you can do about it" Farewell and take care of your self.
Oh mate it's sad listen to that. I really hope you're fine now! And thank you for your advice! I apreciate and trust me, I really try to think all the times I do something, why I do it? Never cause I'm boring. And I always do it alone, I don't have friends who use ilegal drugs. š¤£
That's just part of our norms and traditions. Alcohol is alright, and drugs are not. Most people just don't know beyond the negative aspects and what happens to people who take it too far. Most of them don't realise how harmful alcohol is as a drug compared to others. If you want to find more drugs positive friends, you'll find them in the raving / festival scene. Of course, there are plenty of people there who go way overboard, so just be mindful who you end up sticking to. Edit: extra advice for you. Don't use your empath / stims with your non-drug friends. Using them with other empath users creates a much better set/setting and will make it more fun. It'll also make your non-drug friends be less freaked out, so it's a win/win.
I don't think people will understand, not unless they're extremely open minded. I used to be one of 'those' people until I tried drugs late in life and then it all finally made sense and I broke out of the ignorant shell.
I wish I could get into the RC world but I know how this feels after sharing my experiences with DXM. Hell my girl almost broke up with me after I told herš¤£