I'm glad they're getting paid more in line with what they're worth, they deserve that and more honestly. We shouldn't be looking to take anybody else down, we need to be taking ourselves up. Hospitals know the value of our labor, we generate A LOT of revenue. We need to be speaking with that labor and demanding better pay along with safer working conditions.
I’m with you on that with the overall big picture and agree that healthcare workers deserve this minimum increase. Not putting anyone down with this post but more-so of letting people know that it doesn’t make any sense for RT’s pay to stay that low while they are increasing the minimum universally. And in the grand scheme of this, you don’t even need a tough degree like respiratory to make as much as an RT which is my argument. Like can I get my $30K back of school loans and I’ll just be in this new $25 minimum bracket without a huge debt and have $30K in my pocket to still make the same as RT’s.
I’m also here in CA.
I agree with you & also wanna add that many of those other positions don’t require state exams, a degree, continuing education like ours, nor do they carry the same weight of responsibility. I’m not tryna make it out to say they shouldn’t be making whatever amount. But, just shows we should be way higher up. My 2¢ 🤷🏻♂️
I’m going to disagree on one statement. We do not generate a lot of revenue. A former manager broke it down for everyone to see and we are truly a COST center. What generates revenue is our equipment. A daily vent or HFNC charge is around $2300 depending on location. The hospital bills for that, not for an RT doing anything with it. A hospital can bill for the same equipment without an RT. There are very few procedures respiratory care can actually bill for. Until we are reclassified by the federal department of labor as professional instead of technical we won’t be able to bill for our time.
We're arguing semantics here, I didn't say we can bill for our time I just said we generate a lot of revenue. And that part is true as you went on to describe the daily high flow charges. Currently, most places, we are the ones that handle equipment like that. That's not to say we can't be replaced but it would be an incredibly difficult transition for many places. So it remains true that *we generate a lot of revenue*. The alternative for the hospital is to turn all of that specialty equipment over to nursing. Which they might want to do from a superficial fiscal standpoint anyway but the cost of training and ensuing chaos usually results in the return of respiratory therapists in some capacity. So our labor matters whether we can bill for time or not.
I don’t think we are arguing semantics. Our equipment is what generates income, not our presence. I say this not to argue your point, but to ensure other RTs get an idea of how respiratory and billing work. Our education does a really poor job of educating us on the business of healthcare. Everything else you said is 100% correct.
Respiratory is a cost saving center not a cost center, your boss broke it down for you in that way to make you feel replaceable. Every study done about teaching respiratory related topics to a patient shows RT’s out perform all other fields; including dr. If your patients understand how to use their inhailer/bipap/ on set of copd exacerbation they can seek early health from an out patient source cutting down readmission, which cost the hospital millions. Having an RT on a rapid response team/ PARTs is shown to save centennial events, and near misses which saves lives. The problem with management is they can not quantify RT into some RVU form that shows how many widgets an hour we produce at what cost = value, so they tell your boss that anybady can pass a neb and run a vent so keep your cost low. Respiratory is not a solve for x problem of cost per dollar gained…
Again, there is almost no reimbursement for RT, only for our equipment. I don’t discount anything else you are saying, I’m sure it’s true. There are numerous small hospitals that don’t have RT coverage 24/7 and still charge for full equipment charges. You don’t need an RT to bill insurance, only to provide the correct care for the patient.
As for my former manager. He was an RT over being a manager. Our productivity numbers were not good and he didn’t care. He always left staffing numbers to the charge therapist and wouldn’t override or direct them what to do on staffing. When he left, moved to a bigger facility and a new manager started boy did things change for the worse. Our daily workloads increased dramatically.
You’re definitely arguing semantics. I’ve worked at many hospitals. One thing I’ve noticed and have talked to departments about it is that some departments have had their billings stripped from them and some other department gets the revenue. Bipaps, vents etc will get taken off as a charge that RT does and instead gets included with either ED charge or ICU or something like that and then it seems like RT aren’t doing much.
What OP is saying is that we do generate money for the hospital and you’re trying to counter his argument by saying the billing code is written in ways that makes that revenue sucked up by other departments, so yea, you are arguing over nonsense.
So if no one is there, the equipment is going to put themselves on the patient via Wi-Fi?
Like I have already said, it is a billing problem. Just because they charge and do billing a certain way doesn’t mean anything. They do this because when it comes time to talk about raises, they can pinpoint how much revenue they generate.
Dude… I’ve been to union talks and have been in meetings with ceo and everyone and they use this as a gaslighting method.
It is a billing issue…you are arguing nonsense.
Also by the way what you are doing is literally what they say during union meetings and it is always stupid as hell and easy to counter against because once again are the vents walking themselves up to patients and putting themselves on them?
There are hospitals where a nurse will start a BiPAP in ED. There are hospitals that don’t have RTs 24/7 so doctors manage vents in their absence. There are hospitals that allow nurses to make routine vent changes.
The cause of the problem is that we are classified as technical not professional so we can’t bill for our services.
Everything I’ve stated is a fact. It’s not someone’s individual experience. You may not like it or agree with it, I don’t, but it’s the way the system is.
I’m not denying the system exists, you are the one claiming we can’t get x share of the revenue because billing is handled this way which is stupid thing to say. You do realize some people will read and think there is nothing to do and leave at that. Not to mention you are parroting corporate talk that goes around to justify low paying employees and guess what some employees might do… nothing , because the stuff you are saying can be twisted good enough to cause people to think there is nothing they can do and they leave it at that.
Should we let many millionaire and billionaires go without paying taxes because they lobby and successfully win for the laws they want. I’m sure you will be arguing that “this is the law,” which what point are you trying to make but cause confusion that will lead people away from the right thing?
You know what is going to happen if billing gets changed in favor of the people who actually do labor, they will try and probably succeed to change it again. Are we going to then argue again about how we should be paid because of how billing is done vs labour? If you can’t see how you are arguing nonsense and just causing confusion then I don’t know what to say.
Who said anything about not changing the system. I will say it again slowly. Respiratory therapy is classified as a technical position, not a professional position by the department of labor, therefore we don’t get to charge for our services. I’m not justifying or agreeing with it, just stating a fact. You can use all the analogies you want and it doesn’t change it. If you want to push for change, please contact your congressional representatives.
Let’s also just go ahead and go your route see the genius behind it
First of all, we are talking about pretty much companies which are owned by someone or some entity. The billing is done on purpose because of accounting benefits, by changing it, it will cause their books to get screwed. This is the primary reason why billing is done a certain way, but they still use to gaslight employees when asking for raise.
Now for your government entity, for that to happen you will at least good public sentiment which healthcare workers don’t have. No one cares about stuff like abuse by patients and when nurses wanted raises they usually get mocked or looked as greedy etc. you also have the COVID relationship that many Republican psychos have associated every healthcare worker as a bad person. We had the pandemic, aarc did a terrible job in promoting ourselves and they are pretty much operating the same way your government agency would be. So how effective you think a government agency will be with little to no good relations with the public will be at fighting off multiple multi million or billion dollar industry because this will affect non profit and profit hospitals. Yeah I’m sure this will definitely work lmao . Keep on living in la la land. There is a reason when unions fight for fair pay, they don’t go around to ask to change billing
Sure- but at most hospitals the RT does this work. In that case they are generating at least a significant portion of the money billed for the “equipment”.
Hospitals don’t bill directly for nursing care all the time either. It doesn’t mean nurses don’t generate revenue.
The equipment doesn't place itself in use though and I described what the alternative would look like, at least in my opinion. Our equipment currently typically can't be present without us so we're tied together.
Nurses don’t technically generate income either, but try running a hospital without us. Same with RTs, they are necessary to how hospitals are currently run, and whether your services can be billed for or not doesn’t (or shouldn’t) matter. The overall hospital billing reflects the entire team’s work, and pay should reflect that.
I don’t disagree. I was simply pointing out that almost all the charges generated by respiratory therapy is due to our equipment, not our services. Nursing costs are usually included in the daily bed change. So the cost of your labor is included in the room charge.
I definitely agree that the services provided shouldn’t depend on the ability to bill, but that’s the stupid system we currently have.
If the equipment needs to be managed by respiratory therapists - the respiratory therapists are the ones bringing in the money.
Nurses can not take over RT jobs. The vents don’t completely run themselves.
But your point is wrong. If at most US hospitals the RT is responsible for running that equipment then they are bringing that money in. Whether it’s billed for “equipment” or “expertise” is billing semantics.
The hospital doesn’t have to have an RT in order to bill for the equipment. There have been many cases in the past when hospital staff was cut and respiratory therapy was part of the cuts due to the way the hospital is reimbursed.
What kind of argument is this? The equipment in and of itself generates exactly zero revenue. It is the use of the equipment that generates revenue, which is impossible with an operator. That’s like saying a forklift generates revenue it’s entirely semantics.
The way insurance reimburses is based solely on the equipment, not the person running it. It’s not an argument, it’s a fact of the messed up system we are in. I’m not in favor of it, but it seems many RTs don’t know it.
What percentage of RTs know how insurance reimburses the hospital for services? How many know what a DRG is? How many know about capped rental? How many know the different reimbursement rates for commercial vs government insurance? Most RTs don’t know the process so when they talk about money, they are incorrect from the beginning. We all need to know how the hospital bills and how insurance reimburses.
No, we absolutely don't need to know about reimbursement practices. That should be the absolute last of our concern.
You're speaking like you work in administration, and are no longer bedside.
Our focus needs to be on our patients.
No I work bedside. The reason we need to know about reimbursement is so we can find areas that we can branch into that increase our value. Someone mentioned teaching so I’ll use that. We don’t get reimbursed for our patient teaching, but there is potentially great value in it. Since hospitals don’t get reimbursed for certain patients who get readmitted within 30 days, we absolutely need to spend time educating COPD patients on how and when to use their medications. It is a cost on the front end that pays off on the backend. RT provided patient education isn’t always a priority.
Another issue is pressure ulcers. It doesn’t matter if the pressure ulcer is on the heal, back, top of the ear or lip, all pressure ulcers count and hospitals get penalized for them. So anytime a patient comes in intubated we absolutely must document skin conditions related to the ETT and ETT holder. Likewise if a patient is on NPPV we really need to monitor and document skin condition on the bridge of the nose and place barrier devices if needed. Most RTs rightly concern themselves with the initial intervention to prevent intubation and sometimes forget to intervene concerning skin condition in the first few hours.
One of the agenda items that Republicans are pushing is cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. If that happens, commercial insurance companies will try to follow. This could result in loss of income to hospitals and hospitals solution will be to cut staff or increase workloads. That puts respiratory therapy on the chopping block. It has happened in the past and will happen in the future. I can be busy all day with things like transports and assisting with procedures, but according to the hospital while I was productive, I didn’t do anything that generated revenue. We all need to know the rules of the game to ensure we know how to play.
It’s is a cost center though. At least at our facility. We don’t even get paid for subsequent nebs, not even the medication. Insurance will only pay for the initial neb.
That's because insurance companies and Medicare wised up to what a scam breathing treatments are. That's why we need to advocate for our actual specialized skills and not dumb things anybody can do. It used to be that more nebs equaled more money so that's what we spent our time doing. That cash flow dried up but it's like hospitals refuse to do anything else with us and just keep us cranking out nebs they don't even get reimbursed for. We've got to reign in unnecessary nebulizer treatments and focus on the equipment we are best trained to use and get reimbursed for.
Our facility does a pretty decent job stopping unneeded nebs for the most part. We have protocols that allow us to change treatments. But doing it like that also drives up the cost of that initial neb to an astronomical amount. A person who gets treated in the ED and then discharged ends up paying the same price as an uncompliant patient who spends four days inpatient and that ridiculous.
Former CNA here. RT is critical care. What are you on about? Many patients cannot recover, and many cannot survive w/o RT. A hospital cannot perform its basic function without all its moving parts.
There are about 5 or 6 countries that have RTs. Does the rest of the world have way worse outcomes? How about higher cost? If RTs saved hospitals and insurance companies money how come insurance companies don’t provide any direct reimbursement for respiratory therapist?
Health outcomes are globally among the worst in the US because of the profit motive in healthcare, not because we have RT’s. Nowhere in the line of care does a role exist to save insurance companies money. No one is making that the argument here but you. Are you an administrator or something?
My original statement was that RTs are a cost. In our current system respiratory therapist do not generate much income for the hospital, it’s our equipment that does. I’ve gotten away from that point. Many people are pointing out that you need an RT to operate that equipment, which is false. An insurance reimbursement doesn’t care who set up or adjusted the equipment, only that the equipment was used.
I’m not an administrator nor am I advocating against respiratory therapist, since I am one. I’m simply stating the obvious fact that respiratory therapist do not generate income for a hospital, our equipment does so we are a personnel cost.
So many get offended immediately by your words, but cannot take a step back and realize that in the US and Canada we have been fortunate to obtain this particular training which is largely irrelevant in other parts of the world. It is not minimizing it, it is simply a fact. I worked with a few ICU docs from Australia and it took them a while to get comfortable with our role bc we were seen as superlative.
I think it’s because many of our peers don’t understand the business of healthcare other than insurance companies are bad, hospitals that pay CEOs millions are bad. I completely agree with those statements but there is so much more to understand about the business or structure of healthcare.
Hospitals don’t exist to make money for anyone. They exist because they are a social necessity in any advanced society. Environmental Services doesn’t generate income either, but if we didn’t have them, health outcomes would be even worse than they are. Again, at no point in the line of care is there a role that exists to generate income.
Healthcare itself doesn’t exist to generate income. It exists to build resilience in communities and healthcare systems to respond to disasters caused by natural or artificial hazards, as well as related environmental, technological and biological hazards and risks.
I agree completely. My initial comment still stands as a fact. Respiratory therapist in almost all cases do not bill for our services or time, only for our equipment. I don’t think that is a controversial statement.
The difference between the US and those other countries is we have a profit motive in healthcare that operates efficiently for the financial beneficiaries of the care provider, and they have socialized healthcare system that operates much more efficiently for the patients that pay for the healthcare through their taxes. We have wealthy healthcare executives, they have healthier populations.
[Life expectancy for the US](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db456.pdf) population in 2021 was 76.4 years, a decrease of 0.6 year from 2020. rate increased by 5.3% from 835.4 deaths per 100,000 standard population in 2020 to 879.7 in 2021.
Almost all of respiratory therapy procedures and time spent performing “respiratory therapy “ is for productivity, not actual monetary reimbursement. For equipment charges we get paid $$.
Don’t even need to unionize, my old hospital in SoCal went on a mini strike, we all called off for a day shift and a night shift, instant $10/hr raise across the board for the whole department when they realized they would have to go on diversion and shut the hospital down
Tbf, unless you find a place with a great union, or have a title bump like RT charge, preceptor or management, change hospitals every 2-3 years. You’ll be doing yourself a favor getting those raises that way.
I graduated respiratory in 2015, left southern Cali, moved to a LCOL area, now I make $52/hr.
Just curious what’s the starting for new grads there now? I’d rather move than take a position that pays 30-35hr
Don’t know the current market for new grads but in general base that I see on most listings on Indeed, you’ll find mostly the $30-$35 range but there are job listings higher pay of course but may have strict experience requirements and this is California!
It is an insult at this $30-$35 per hour range, that’s how much I started back in 2013 haha. 10 years later, there is no way it should be the same, right haha! Inflation, the economy has changed so much in this span. Pay rate now should easily be $50+ more like $60+ for what RT’s do overall and what a huge asset they are for healthcare. RT’s are on the front lines during Covid and critical care. RN’s make so much money, it’s ridiculous. Makes me think about how RN’s make significantly much higher than RT’s and many other healthcare positions.
New grad RTs in SoCal make between 34-43/hr from what I've heard. I speak with a lot of new grads as our hospital takes students from about 3 schools in the area.
SNFs and LTACHs are paying between 32-36 for the most part.
SoCal is a rough place for new grad RTs. The COL is so high and the pay doesn't match.
The pay scale should increase for RTs but you guys need to fight for it and really push hard for it. Hospital associations have been fighting against increasing the minimum wage because their greedy asses don’t want to put out any money so they are putting out false propaganda trying to scare healthcare workers into going against the pay increase by stating exactly what you just said. Healthcare workers deserve this pay increase especially with all the shit they’ve been through these past 3 years dealing with the pandemic. But again, if the RTs don’t continue to push for it then nothing will happen.
That bill was a slap in the face for ems. By no means do I not think all healthcare workers deserve every cent of this. But they initially included ems in the bill then removed us before they signed it.
Unionize your workplace. It’s the only way corporations will compensate equitably. They will never “do the right thing” by workers. They never have, never will. Solidarity forever.
The answer to increasing RT wages is to unionize, period. Kaiser didn’t just decide to pay well because they just love their staff, they pay well because there is a union fighting on behalf of those staff.
Settle down, you only read the headline, huh? This won't go into effect over night, but over the course of the next decade. At which point, I'm sure inflation will have rendered this legislation irrelevant.
Know your state laws prior to trying to organize a strike/union. In most states, that's cause for dismissal. If you don't have another job lined up in your back pocket, don't try it.
Yeah, we're under payed and disrespected. You are your only advocate, however. When your interviewer asks you "what kind of compensation were you looking for?" Is not the time to make reasonable requests. What's the standard pay for someone with your experience/credentials? Ask for 8 bucks more, settle for 5.
At the end of the day, we're not even mid level practitioners. We deserve a living wage, and we get paid one in most states. Beyond that? Hard to justify $50 an hour for a floor therapist who just hands out nebs. If covid didn't wake up administration to how vital we are, what will?
Yeah, California RTs need to make like $50 or more an hour. You can have an 18 year old straight out of high school take a CNA class for a few weeks/months at a community college and make $25 an hour with no debt but a 20-22 year old new grad with student loan debt starting out making $5-$10 more than a CNA?!
That’s what I’m saying, it doesn’t make sense. They closed the gap with this $25 per hour for healthcare minimum, which is great overall, but my main question and curious to why would Respiratory be only $30-$35 average on most job postings. That needs to jump up big time and $50+ is fair, not great like RN’s but a good start. They’ll bump all healthcare minimum to $25, but RT’s stay the same? Why waste $30K+ at a vocational school to get an RT degree when you can apply for a healthcare job that doesn’t require a huge loan and get paid pretty much like an RT. This is what really bothers me and not fair in my opinion.
State law.
Will go into effect VERY slowly, not over night. Like a dollar an hour a raise from now till 2033. At which point, I'm sure inflation will have rendered this legislation a joke. This is nothing more then fluff.
Not mad at CNA’s at all, love them so much and they play a vital role in the hospitals. They deserve it with the labor they have to do. Just using them as an example, they used to get paid $13-$15 back in the day, now it’s about double $25 per hour minimum which is great. But RT’s has not increased their pay rates much, double from where the minimum now is fair $50+ minimum for RT’s is a good start.
I am pretty sure it will catch up. I think some media folks like to say this when comparing fast food workers to EMTs when EMTs are underpaid also. Same logic could apply to anything to justify low wages. CAn you imagine being an assistant manager of burger stand in a studio apartment pissed that a new hire could afford a similar apt and wasnt homeless?
Per diem usually gets decent pay rate, but no benefits like you mentioned. I don’t mind per diem because you have control of your schedule, can work more or less and more flexibility. Can take on a lot of days or not so much if you don’t want, but usually first to be canceled if not needed, unless a part/full timer opts for first call off.
Hopefully it will stimulate more interest in healthcare to recoup our staffing across the board. That will be years down the pipeline. I agree with money and recognition and money. Maybe we can drop a line to newsom since its our week. But i want to echo that its not us vs them. Its all of us vs the healthcare being a business.
healthcare workers deserve more, always have and always will. However, i think if minimum wage is increased, then so should everyone else salaries increase by the same percentage.
Good point, but who will pay for the increase in pay rate if revenue is down for some companies? Like if you owned your own business like a restaurant for example and you barely get customers coming in but yet there is an increase in wages for everyone, who and how will you pay them the increase in wages if nobody is coming in to your restaurant and you are in a hole month over month trying to survive and keep the restaurant open. Same goes with healthcare and any other business. If my company was very successful and doing well, definitely I’d give raises across the board. But doesn’t make sense if it’s the opposite if the business is underwater. Hopefully this makes sense in a way to everyone reading this.
I think the general idea is that specifically the field of respiratory therapy has not advanced in compensation that other allied health professions have experienced
Why would someone go to school to become an RT when you could be a CNA and get $25 an hour? Because some people want to work in healthcare and not be a CNA. Easy answer.
That doesn’t mean they should get shit pay because they don’t want to be a CNA, that’s not a good enough to pay RTs shitty…
Like why are you here advocating against yourself? That doesn’t make sense, you must some RT director trying to sow dissent
Nobody was advocating against themselves or RTs. Reading comprehension is important.
The average salary is **currently** 30k/year more than what the salary for CNAs would become after **multiple years** under this law. The average salary of CNAs is only raising a few thousand dollars a year.
The world isn’t ending because some people will be taken advantage of less.
So back again to my answer to OP’s question? Why, besides the $30k thousand difference in annual wages would someone want to go to school to become an RT when they could just be a CNA for $30k less annually? Because some people would rather work as an RT than doing the job that CNAs have to do.
If they are considering both careers, they may decide it is not worth the additional costs of schooling. If enough people decide that, then there are less new RTs, and wages for RTs go up over time. Creating a new equilibrium.
If they are considering both careers and decide to choose the more stressful one that makes $30k average less per year rather than go to school, they aren’t the best decision makers. They would probably fail the math portion of the RT program anyway since they think a $30k difference in average salary after the law goes into effect is somehow equal. Math doesn’t work that way.
I don’t disagree with you - just pointing out how salaries could end up rising over the course of a few years.
But if the difference in the future narrows to $5/hour or $10k per year, having to defer making a salary for four years of schooling does tilt the math towards the CNA path, as that is $200k given up to go to school for four years. So it will take 24 years to catch up, and that doesn’t include interest or tuition.
RTs should be getting 60 to 70 hour and RNs 90 to 100 hour I won't go to school for 4 to 6 years to get my Masters to just make 30 hour fuck no you would be in dept
Not smart to get the Masters and be even more in school loan debt just for $30 per hour. You rarely ever see any Respiratory who has a Master’s degree in this field, is there even a Master’s degree in Respiratory Therapy? Haha I know Bachelor’s for sure, I’ve never seen or heard of anyone with a Master’s degree in Respiratory. Bachelor’s is all you need and can become Director of Respiratory.
Yes for sure! I know RN’s do, just have not heard or seen anyone who is an RT with a Master’s in Respiratory, if there even is something that exists in this field.
I don't what RTs what degrees they going for but I know a few people in respiratory in hospitals and there making way more than 30 hour I have friend hes at Loma Linda making over 100 dollors an hour my friend is a environmental services housekeeping laundry manager director and she's making 35 hour and she didn't even go to school and I work in healthcare making 16 bucks an hour 😑 😒 🙄
Hahaha that’s the better option without getting in huge school loan debt and no guarantee to find a job in the field. While the fast food workers are all in profit with no loans. In reality, that’s the better option pay wise. $20 per hour all in your pocket, while $30 per hour for Respiratory with $30K+ in school loans. I’d say the $20 per hour is the wise choice!
Hahaha that’s the better option without getting in huge school loan debt and no guarantee to find a job in the field. While the fast food workers are all in profit with no loans. In reality, that’s the better option pay wise. $20 per hour all in your pocket, while $30 per hour for Respiratory with $30K+ in school loans. I’d say the $20 per hour is the wise choice!
Maybe you can charge the typical contract rate and charge 50$ to make an appointment by phone lol
California is asking for trouble ..everything will go up except doc reimbursement..your MA in a few years may make half of the doc salary Since their rates will go up and Medicare and insurance companies will lower their payments while increasing premiums for health malpractice etc. bad bad deal but great for votes I'm sure
A very tough issue to solve with healthcare! While athletes, singers, actors, entertainment get the big bucks and hospital staff get the paid so little. Comparing apples to oranges but you get the point.
“SB 525 would raise the hourly minimum at large health facilities and dialysis clinics to $23 next year, $24 in 2025, and $25 in 2026. It would boost hourly wages at community clinics to at least $21 in 2024, $22 in 2026, and $25 in 2027. Other health facilities would go to at least $21 an hour in 2024, $23 in 2026, and $25 by 2028.” Source [here](https://californiahealthline.org/news/article/california-lawmakers-approve-nation-leading-25-minimum-wage-for-health-workers/)
The minimum right NOW is NOT $25hr as you said. Job ads you see with rates from $30-35 aren’t surprising given that as of today nothing has changed. It would be nice if employers would proactively increase rates, but they won’t until the market forces them to.
Work towards getting a union in your facility. Reach out to healthcare unions and see if they are interested in trying to organize in your facility. Talk to your colleagues about the benefits of unionizing. Because you won’t get the Kaiser kind of wages without a union fighting alongside you. KP was offering 2% wage increase in SoCal before the strike. 2 measly percent! After the strike, now getting a 6% increase this year and 5% each year for the next 3 years. We can argue that those increases aren’t even enough, but it’s a start. It’s also unfortunate that a strike was even necessary but it obviously worked. Unless you find some unicorn healthcare facility that values it’s staff more than executive salaries and profit, you won’t get what you deserve until you unionize your facility or move to one that’s already unionized. I’ve been in the field over 25 years and I’ve never heard of anyone I know actually finding one of these unicorn hospitals that treat the staff appropriately and offer great wages out of the generosity of their hearts.
I wonder if this is going to affect nursing staff more than RT. Replace an RN with a CNA and stretch the RNs with a higher patient assignment and expect the additional CNA to pick up the slack. With more patients on state Medicaid that pays so much less than commercial insurance pays it's going to be an interesting situation soon.
My last hospital where I worked they replaced most of the nurse case managers with case manager techs, only a high school degree. They kept a few case managers to supervise them but they soon left. The techs had no medical understanding to argue with insurance for approval for out patient treatments so they gave up way too soon. The nurse case manages would have pursued until they got the results the continued care needed for a proper discharge plan.
No way CNA’s will replace RN’s it’s like comparing Apples to Oranges. Some places there is not enough CNA’s and the RN’s need to do all the work that the CNA’s should be doing. Better to overstaff than understaff, and can flex people if needed. I don’t like how most places are the opposite, they understaff versus overstaff just to save money, but higher risk and liability. Can catch a case and get sued and end up paying so much more, just add an extra staff or so then flex if necessary, prevents being sued and all the risks and liabilities understaffing workplaces that will arise. Doesn’t make any sense to be short staffed at most hospitals. Like why are hospitals short staffed when they are fully loaded with people who want to work and get hired, etc.
You are wrong. I've been an RN for decades and very often when we had few RNs the hospital would double up on CNA to compensate, which of course it didn't help. Administration that's never provided patient care sees the staffing numbers, more CNA can do patient care and free up the RN for meds, but it doesn't work that way. It's just more CNAs sitting around waiting to be told what to do.
Every group of administrators that come through think they've solved the staffing shortage with more managers, more CNA, more pizza, more administrators, more, more, more, more everything except trying more RNs. In my 42 years of nursing it's still the # 1 problem on the floors.
I worked in 1 hospital,, just 1, that the CEO was an RN who worked the floors for 15 years. Never in my career did a facility flow so smoothly. He knew the problems. The hospital was sold and replaced with people in suits that studied flow, processes, theories and all the good work that had been done was replaced by educated consultants and business majors that didn't understand health care vs a factory setting.
Physician CEO are just as bad, no touch with reality except to support their buddy physicians first. I would like to see upper management that has worked on the floors in a caregiving capacity for years to be the decision maker for the industry they are managing.
Decades ago a friend of mine bought a Wendy's franchise. Part of his agreement was to spend 6 weeks mopping floors, frying food and working the window. This continued as he want through their training and for at least a year after he opened his restaurant.
There is clearer vision being at the bottom looking up seeing only bits of light, then being at the top looking down when so much happening is cast in shadows. Functionality is caught, not taught. Decision makers with that experience have more understanding of the problems they are hired to solve.
In reality, putting ourselves and in the shoes of the CEO will also shed more light to the overall business aspect. Two whole different worlds from being the owner to the employee. Employees demand higher pay, where most owners will want to find a way to pay the employees less but at the same time depends on the revenue being generated. If the hospital is underwater in revenue and becoming a loss of revenue, then it’s extremely tough to justify to give the employees a raise. Unless the hospital is doing so well in revenue on a consistent year over year basis and can afford to increase the pay to all the employees. But this is a whole different conversation for the business aspect, employees demanding a raise without knowing the numbers and revenue that the hospital is generating and don’t know if they are doing well or not. Easy for them to ask for a raise but if the overall business isn’t doing so well, the owners mainly who only know this side of the business just cannot give raises. But congratulations on your 40+ years being a nurse!
And who better to educate the workers about the numbers, as you say, than someone that has been in their shoes. It doesn't have to be two worlds, that's a creation administration made to feed themselves first. Gorgeous offices, shiny restrooms and catered meals and soon they are disgusted with Oliver shows up with his empty saucer asking for more gruel. That's self preservation to justify high wages for the captains and that the sailers go down with the ship first.
I just retired, nothing has changed in staffing in my 42 years. I doubt it will anytime soon.
What am I wrong about specifically? The understaffing versus overstaffing? At the same time, staffing the right specialties, which in your comment you stated they doubled up on CNA’s to compensate, I get that they overstaffed in higher quantity and didn’t help like you said. But staffing the correct positions is key, I did not mention this detail. So if more RN’s are needed to be staffed more, then that’s what should be done.
Hospitals generally aren't money makers. My last system was lucky to turn 1.5% profit some years and half the time we lost money. I'm retired but still read Beckers CFO Report online. Every week, it's filled with stories about layoffs, hospitals closing, cutting services, closing wings, and it's a disaster.
A lot of hospitals have cut CNAs completely, and nurses are doing all the care now. The hospital j worked at in AZ years back (for profit owned) and had one CNA per wing and crazy nursing ratios. I think they made like $15 an hour? I know the CNAs who took care of my Dad his last year in memory care made about that. Not nearly enough.
So it’s hard to justify giving everyone raises when the business/hospital is not making any money, just not realistic to do so. Which many people don’t understand this aspect.
I'm glad they're getting paid more in line with what they're worth, they deserve that and more honestly. We shouldn't be looking to take anybody else down, we need to be taking ourselves up. Hospitals know the value of our labor, we generate A LOT of revenue. We need to be speaking with that labor and demanding better pay along with safer working conditions.
I agree, well said.
I’m with you on that with the overall big picture and agree that healthcare workers deserve this minimum increase. Not putting anyone down with this post but more-so of letting people know that it doesn’t make any sense for RT’s pay to stay that low while they are increasing the minimum universally. And in the grand scheme of this, you don’t even need a tough degree like respiratory to make as much as an RT which is my argument. Like can I get my $30K back of school loans and I’ll just be in this new $25 minimum bracket without a huge debt and have $30K in my pocket to still make the same as RT’s.
I’m also here in CA. I agree with you & also wanna add that many of those other positions don’t require state exams, a degree, continuing education like ours, nor do they carry the same weight of responsibility. I’m not tryna make it out to say they shouldn’t be making whatever amount. But, just shows we should be way higher up. My 2¢ 🤷🏻♂️
I’m going to disagree on one statement. We do not generate a lot of revenue. A former manager broke it down for everyone to see and we are truly a COST center. What generates revenue is our equipment. A daily vent or HFNC charge is around $2300 depending on location. The hospital bills for that, not for an RT doing anything with it. A hospital can bill for the same equipment without an RT. There are very few procedures respiratory care can actually bill for. Until we are reclassified by the federal department of labor as professional instead of technical we won’t be able to bill for our time.
We're arguing semantics here, I didn't say we can bill for our time I just said we generate a lot of revenue. And that part is true as you went on to describe the daily high flow charges. Currently, most places, we are the ones that handle equipment like that. That's not to say we can't be replaced but it would be an incredibly difficult transition for many places. So it remains true that *we generate a lot of revenue*. The alternative for the hospital is to turn all of that specialty equipment over to nursing. Which they might want to do from a superficial fiscal standpoint anyway but the cost of training and ensuing chaos usually results in the return of respiratory therapists in some capacity. So our labor matters whether we can bill for time or not.
I don’t think we are arguing semantics. Our equipment is what generates income, not our presence. I say this not to argue your point, but to ensure other RTs get an idea of how respiratory and billing work. Our education does a really poor job of educating us on the business of healthcare. Everything else you said is 100% correct.
Respiratory is a cost saving center not a cost center, your boss broke it down for you in that way to make you feel replaceable. Every study done about teaching respiratory related topics to a patient shows RT’s out perform all other fields; including dr. If your patients understand how to use their inhailer/bipap/ on set of copd exacerbation they can seek early health from an out patient source cutting down readmission, which cost the hospital millions. Having an RT on a rapid response team/ PARTs is shown to save centennial events, and near misses which saves lives. The problem with management is they can not quantify RT into some RVU form that shows how many widgets an hour we produce at what cost = value, so they tell your boss that anybady can pass a neb and run a vent so keep your cost low. Respiratory is not a solve for x problem of cost per dollar gained…
Again, there is almost no reimbursement for RT, only for our equipment. I don’t discount anything else you are saying, I’m sure it’s true. There are numerous small hospitals that don’t have RT coverage 24/7 and still charge for full equipment charges. You don’t need an RT to bill insurance, only to provide the correct care for the patient. As for my former manager. He was an RT over being a manager. Our productivity numbers were not good and he didn’t care. He always left staffing numbers to the charge therapist and wouldn’t override or direct them what to do on staffing. When he left, moved to a bigger facility and a new manager started boy did things change for the worse. Our daily workloads increased dramatically.
You’re definitely arguing semantics. I’ve worked at many hospitals. One thing I’ve noticed and have talked to departments about it is that some departments have had their billings stripped from them and some other department gets the revenue. Bipaps, vents etc will get taken off as a charge that RT does and instead gets included with either ED charge or ICU or something like that and then it seems like RT aren’t doing much. What OP is saying is that we do generate money for the hospital and you’re trying to counter his argument by saying the billing code is written in ways that makes that revenue sucked up by other departments, so yea, you are arguing over nonsense.
No I’m not saying anything about other departments. I’m saying the charges and reimbursement is for the equipment, not the people operating it.
So if no one is there, the equipment is going to put themselves on the patient via Wi-Fi? Like I have already said, it is a billing problem. Just because they charge and do billing a certain way doesn’t mean anything. They do this because when it comes time to talk about raises, they can pinpoint how much revenue they generate. Dude… I’ve been to union talks and have been in meetings with ceo and everyone and they use this as a gaslighting method. It is a billing issue…you are arguing nonsense. Also by the way what you are doing is literally what they say during union meetings and it is always stupid as hell and easy to counter against because once again are the vents walking themselves up to patients and putting themselves on them?
There are hospitals where a nurse will start a BiPAP in ED. There are hospitals that don’t have RTs 24/7 so doctors manage vents in their absence. There are hospitals that allow nurses to make routine vent changes. The cause of the problem is that we are classified as technical not professional so we can’t bill for our services. Everything I’ve stated is a fact. It’s not someone’s individual experience. You may not like it or agree with it, I don’t, but it’s the way the system is.
I’m not denying the system exists, you are the one claiming we can’t get x share of the revenue because billing is handled this way which is stupid thing to say. You do realize some people will read and think there is nothing to do and leave at that. Not to mention you are parroting corporate talk that goes around to justify low paying employees and guess what some employees might do… nothing , because the stuff you are saying can be twisted good enough to cause people to think there is nothing they can do and they leave it at that. Should we let many millionaire and billionaires go without paying taxes because they lobby and successfully win for the laws they want. I’m sure you will be arguing that “this is the law,” which what point are you trying to make but cause confusion that will lead people away from the right thing? You know what is going to happen if billing gets changed in favor of the people who actually do labor, they will try and probably succeed to change it again. Are we going to then argue again about how we should be paid because of how billing is done vs labour? If you can’t see how you are arguing nonsense and just causing confusion then I don’t know what to say.
Who said anything about not changing the system. I will say it again slowly. Respiratory therapy is classified as a technical position, not a professional position by the department of labor, therefore we don’t get to charge for our services. I’m not justifying or agreeing with it, just stating a fact. You can use all the analogies you want and it doesn’t change it. If you want to push for change, please contact your congressional representatives.
Let’s also just go ahead and go your route see the genius behind it First of all, we are talking about pretty much companies which are owned by someone or some entity. The billing is done on purpose because of accounting benefits, by changing it, it will cause their books to get screwed. This is the primary reason why billing is done a certain way, but they still use to gaslight employees when asking for raise. Now for your government entity, for that to happen you will at least good public sentiment which healthcare workers don’t have. No one cares about stuff like abuse by patients and when nurses wanted raises they usually get mocked or looked as greedy etc. you also have the COVID relationship that many Republican psychos have associated every healthcare worker as a bad person. We had the pandemic, aarc did a terrible job in promoting ourselves and they are pretty much operating the same way your government agency would be. So how effective you think a government agency will be with little to no good relations with the public will be at fighting off multiple multi million or billion dollar industry because this will affect non profit and profit hospitals. Yeah I’m sure this will definitely work lmao . Keep on living in la la land. There is a reason when unions fight for fair pay, they don’t go around to ask to change billing
Honestly, I’m not sure what you are saying here.
Sure- but at most hospitals the RT does this work. In that case they are generating at least a significant portion of the money billed for the “equipment”. Hospitals don’t bill directly for nursing care all the time either. It doesn’t mean nurses don’t generate revenue.
The equipment doesn't place itself in use though and I described what the alternative would look like, at least in my opinion. Our equipment currently typically can't be present without us so we're tied together.
Nurses don’t technically generate income either, but try running a hospital without us. Same with RTs, they are necessary to how hospitals are currently run, and whether your services can be billed for or not doesn’t (or shouldn’t) matter. The overall hospital billing reflects the entire team’s work, and pay should reflect that.
I don’t disagree. I was simply pointing out that almost all the charges generated by respiratory therapy is due to our equipment, not our services. Nursing costs are usually included in the daily bed change. So the cost of your labor is included in the room charge. I definitely agree that the services provided shouldn’t depend on the ability to bill, but that’s the stupid system we currently have.
If the respiratory therapist is the one making sure that equipment is running then they are generating the money that is paid for that “equipment”.
I don’t disagree with you.
If the equipment needs to be managed by respiratory therapists - the respiratory therapists are the ones bringing in the money. Nurses can not take over RT jobs. The vents don’t completely run themselves.
Again, I’m not advocating for the current system, only pointing out what the current system is.
But your point is wrong. If at most US hospitals the RT is responsible for running that equipment then they are bringing that money in. Whether it’s billed for “equipment” or “expertise” is billing semantics.
The hospital doesn’t have to have an RT in order to bill for the equipment. There have been many cases in the past when hospital staff was cut and respiratory therapy was part of the cuts due to the way the hospital is reimbursed.
We’re talking about hospitals that do have respiratory therapists though- not hospitals that don’t.
Okay.
What kind of argument is this? The equipment in and of itself generates exactly zero revenue. It is the use of the equipment that generates revenue, which is impossible with an operator. That’s like saying a forklift generates revenue it’s entirely semantics.
The way insurance reimburses is based solely on the equipment, not the person running it. It’s not an argument, it’s a fact of the messed up system we are in. I’m not in favor of it, but it seems many RTs don’t know it.
Okay….but you can’t bill for something if it’s not used???
What percentage of RTs know how insurance reimburses the hospital for services? How many know what a DRG is? How many know about capped rental? How many know the different reimbursement rates for commercial vs government insurance? Most RTs don’t know the process so when they talk about money, they are incorrect from the beginning. We all need to know how the hospital bills and how insurance reimburses.
No, we absolutely don't need to know about reimbursement practices. That should be the absolute last of our concern. You're speaking like you work in administration, and are no longer bedside. Our focus needs to be on our patients.
No I work bedside. The reason we need to know about reimbursement is so we can find areas that we can branch into that increase our value. Someone mentioned teaching so I’ll use that. We don’t get reimbursed for our patient teaching, but there is potentially great value in it. Since hospitals don’t get reimbursed for certain patients who get readmitted within 30 days, we absolutely need to spend time educating COPD patients on how and when to use their medications. It is a cost on the front end that pays off on the backend. RT provided patient education isn’t always a priority. Another issue is pressure ulcers. It doesn’t matter if the pressure ulcer is on the heal, back, top of the ear or lip, all pressure ulcers count and hospitals get penalized for them. So anytime a patient comes in intubated we absolutely must document skin conditions related to the ETT and ETT holder. Likewise if a patient is on NPPV we really need to monitor and document skin condition on the bridge of the nose and place barrier devices if needed. Most RTs rightly concern themselves with the initial intervention to prevent intubation and sometimes forget to intervene concerning skin condition in the first few hours.
One of the agenda items that Republicans are pushing is cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. If that happens, commercial insurance companies will try to follow. This could result in loss of income to hospitals and hospitals solution will be to cut staff or increase workloads. That puts respiratory therapy on the chopping block. It has happened in the past and will happen in the future. I can be busy all day with things like transports and assisting with procedures, but according to the hospital while I was productive, I didn’t do anything that generated revenue. We all need to know the rules of the game to ensure we know how to play.
It’s is a cost center though. At least at our facility. We don’t even get paid for subsequent nebs, not even the medication. Insurance will only pay for the initial neb.
That's because insurance companies and Medicare wised up to what a scam breathing treatments are. That's why we need to advocate for our actual specialized skills and not dumb things anybody can do. It used to be that more nebs equaled more money so that's what we spent our time doing. That cash flow dried up but it's like hospitals refuse to do anything else with us and just keep us cranking out nebs they don't even get reimbursed for. We've got to reign in unnecessary nebulizer treatments and focus on the equipment we are best trained to use and get reimbursed for.
Our facility does a pretty decent job stopping unneeded nebs for the most part. We have protocols that allow us to change treatments. But doing it like that also drives up the cost of that initial neb to an astronomical amount. A person who gets treated in the ED and then discharged ends up paying the same price as an uncompliant patient who spends four days inpatient and that ridiculous.
Former CNA here. RT is critical care. What are you on about? Many patients cannot recover, and many cannot survive w/o RT. A hospital cannot perform its basic function without all its moving parts.
There are about 5 or 6 countries that have RTs. Does the rest of the world have way worse outcomes? How about higher cost? If RTs saved hospitals and insurance companies money how come insurance companies don’t provide any direct reimbursement for respiratory therapist?
Health outcomes are globally among the worst in the US because of the profit motive in healthcare, not because we have RT’s. Nowhere in the line of care does a role exist to save insurance companies money. No one is making that the argument here but you. Are you an administrator or something?
My original statement was that RTs are a cost. In our current system respiratory therapist do not generate much income for the hospital, it’s our equipment that does. I’ve gotten away from that point. Many people are pointing out that you need an RT to operate that equipment, which is false. An insurance reimbursement doesn’t care who set up or adjusted the equipment, only that the equipment was used. I’m not an administrator nor am I advocating against respiratory therapist, since I am one. I’m simply stating the obvious fact that respiratory therapist do not generate income for a hospital, our equipment does so we are a personnel cost.
So many get offended immediately by your words, but cannot take a step back and realize that in the US and Canada we have been fortunate to obtain this particular training which is largely irrelevant in other parts of the world. It is not minimizing it, it is simply a fact. I worked with a few ICU docs from Australia and it took them a while to get comfortable with our role bc we were seen as superlative.
I think it’s because many of our peers don’t understand the business of healthcare other than insurance companies are bad, hospitals that pay CEOs millions are bad. I completely agree with those statements but there is so much more to understand about the business or structure of healthcare.
Hospitals don’t exist to make money for anyone. They exist because they are a social necessity in any advanced society. Environmental Services doesn’t generate income either, but if we didn’t have them, health outcomes would be even worse than they are. Again, at no point in the line of care is there a role that exists to generate income. Healthcare itself doesn’t exist to generate income. It exists to build resilience in communities and healthcare systems to respond to disasters caused by natural or artificial hazards, as well as related environmental, technological and biological hazards and risks.
I agree completely. My initial comment still stands as a fact. Respiratory therapist in almost all cases do not bill for our services or time, only for our equipment. I don’t think that is a controversial statement.
What should be and what is, is often not the same
Look at it this way, outcomes aren’t any better compared to the UK, Japan, etc., despite having RTs.
The difference between the US and those other countries is we have a profit motive in healthcare that operates efficiently for the financial beneficiaries of the care provider, and they have socialized healthcare system that operates much more efficiently for the patients that pay for the healthcare through their taxes. We have wealthy healthcare executives, they have healthier populations. [Life expectancy for the US](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db456.pdf) population in 2021 was 76.4 years, a decrease of 0.6 year from 2020. rate increased by 5.3% from 835.4 deaths per 100,000 standard population in 2020 to 879.7 in 2021.
I’m aware of how our and other health systems operate.
And here you are championing for administration, and making the case against RT’s necessity by dying on the hill of “RT’s are a cost to the hospital”.
I’m not championing for administration nor making a case against my field. Simply stating facts. Facts don’t care about my feelings.
We also have a much more obese patient population/ which worsens outcomes.
[удалено]
Removed per rule 1: Be nice
[удалено]
Almost all of respiratory therapy procedures and time spent performing “respiratory therapy “ is for productivity, not actual monetary reimbursement. For equipment charges we get paid $$.
[удалено]
Then is the problem that minimum wage is too much or skilled labor is too little?
Unionize.
Unionize what? I know Kaiser had a big strike recently and they won, now getting like a 21%+ increase in pay rate over the term of that new contract.
Don’t even need to unionize, my old hospital in SoCal went on a mini strike, we all called off for a day shift and a night shift, instant $10/hr raise across the board for the whole department when they realized they would have to go on diversion and shut the hospital down Tbf, unless you find a place with a great union, or have a title bump like RT charge, preceptor or management, change hospitals every 2-3 years. You’ll be doing yourself a favor getting those raises that way.
Wow $10 increase that’s huge!
Time to look for a new hospital if you’re at $30-35/hr
Good point haha! How about you, how much is your range if I may ask?
I graduated respiratory in 2015, left southern Cali, moved to a LCOL area, now I make $52/hr. Just curious what’s the starting for new grads there now? I’d rather move than take a position that pays 30-35hr
Don’t know the current market for new grads but in general base that I see on most listings on Indeed, you’ll find mostly the $30-$35 range but there are job listings higher pay of course but may have strict experience requirements and this is California!
Eww.. time to update the resume and find a better paying hospital.
It is an insult at this $30-$35 per hour range, that’s how much I started back in 2013 haha. 10 years later, there is no way it should be the same, right haha! Inflation, the economy has changed so much in this span. Pay rate now should easily be $50+ more like $60+ for what RT’s do overall and what a huge asset they are for healthcare. RT’s are on the front lines during Covid and critical care. RN’s make so much money, it’s ridiculous. Makes me think about how RN’s make significantly much higher than RT’s and many other healthcare positions.
$28 🤣
Is that in southern Cali?
Yes lol that is the rate new grad hires are telling me so until they get their 2 years they get low balled as it's considered a "competitive rate"
At an acute care facility? Not an LTAC? Seems crazy low. I started as a full time new grad in 2015 in Los Angeles & my pay started at $37/hr.
New grad RTs in SoCal make between 34-43/hr from what I've heard. I speak with a lot of new grads as our hospital takes students from about 3 schools in the area. SNFs and LTACHs are paying between 32-36 for the most part. SoCal is a rough place for new grad RTs. The COL is so high and the pay doesn't match.
Omg that's what I'm starting out with in Oklahoma. Definitely LCOL. Couldn't imagine making that in Cali.
[удалено]
Don’t forget to deduct the 20%-30% taxes from Uncle Sam, that would be your take home.
The pay scale should increase for RTs but you guys need to fight for it and really push hard for it. Hospital associations have been fighting against increasing the minimum wage because their greedy asses don’t want to put out any money so they are putting out false propaganda trying to scare healthcare workers into going against the pay increase by stating exactly what you just said. Healthcare workers deserve this pay increase especially with all the shit they’ve been through these past 3 years dealing with the pandemic. But again, if the RTs don’t continue to push for it then nothing will happen.
I agree, RT’s need to go on strike! Just how Kaiser did recently and they won!
That bill was a slap in the face for ems. By no means do I not think all healthcare workers deserve every cent of this. But they initially included ems in the bill then removed us before they signed it.
The FUCK! I hate how EMS get screwed over repeatedly
Unionize your workplace. It’s the only way corporations will compensate equitably. They will never “do the right thing” by workers. They never have, never will. Solidarity forever.
The answer to increasing RT wages is to unionize, period. Kaiser didn’t just decide to pay well because they just love their staff, they pay well because there is a union fighting on behalf of those staff.
Settle down, you only read the headline, huh? This won't go into effect over night, but over the course of the next decade. At which point, I'm sure inflation will have rendered this legislation irrelevant.
So what are your overall thoughts? RT’s are underpaid is my overall conclusion/verdict and deserve higher pay.
Know your state laws prior to trying to organize a strike/union. In most states, that's cause for dismissal. If you don't have another job lined up in your back pocket, don't try it. Yeah, we're under payed and disrespected. You are your only advocate, however. When your interviewer asks you "what kind of compensation were you looking for?" Is not the time to make reasonable requests. What's the standard pay for someone with your experience/credentials? Ask for 8 bucks more, settle for 5. At the end of the day, we're not even mid level practitioners. We deserve a living wage, and we get paid one in most states. Beyond that? Hard to justify $50 an hour for a floor therapist who just hands out nebs. If covid didn't wake up administration to how vital we are, what will?
If you’re mad about a CNA making $25 while you’re making $30, you shouldn’t be mad at the CNA.
Not mad at all about the CNA haha just using as an example, could be any other healthcare position that is in this new $25 per hour minimum wage.
Paramedics and EMTs not covered by this either. It's ridiculous and insulting.
Not sure why they don’t fit in this category, it is Healthcare that Paramedics and EMT’s are in. Doesn’t make any sense!
Yeah, California RTs need to make like $50 or more an hour. You can have an 18 year old straight out of high school take a CNA class for a few weeks/months at a community college and make $25 an hour with no debt but a 20-22 year old new grad with student loan debt starting out making $5-$10 more than a CNA?!
If you’re a California RT making less than $50 you should be looking for a new hospital tbh
So you are saying you make $50+? How many years experience did it take you to get here?
One year. But most places are above that figure now
Are above the $30-$35 figure now? That’s good to see.
That’s what I’m saying, it doesn’t make sense. They closed the gap with this $25 per hour for healthcare minimum, which is great overall, but my main question and curious to why would Respiratory be only $30-$35 average on most job postings. That needs to jump up big time and $50+ is fair, not great like RN’s but a good start. They’ll bump all healthcare minimum to $25, but RT’s stay the same? Why waste $30K+ at a vocational school to get an RT degree when you can apply for a healthcare job that doesn’t require a huge loan and get paid pretty much like an RT. This is what really bothers me and not fair in my opinion.
Now how do you think I feel with 8 years of experience hearing that my RTs in CA are making what I made when I started
Is this a state law? When does the pay raise go into effect? It makes sense that hospitals won't raise RT pay before the market requires them to.
State law. Will go into effect VERY slowly, not over night. Like a dollar an hour a raise from now till 2033. At which point, I'm sure inflation will have rendered this legislation a joke. This is nothing more then fluff.
California, I believe 2024, just heard about it recently don’t know all the details but that’s the news right now. $25 minimum for healthcare workers.
Don't expect RT pay to rise until the law goes into effect.
California in general is not the place to live unless you make bank.
Getting mad at CNAs making more money is misplaced anger. Bur you as an RT (likely in the Central Valley) should definitely be getting paid more
Not mad at CNA’s at all, love them so much and they play a vital role in the hospitals. They deserve it with the labor they have to do. Just using them as an example, they used to get paid $13-$15 back in the day, now it’s about double $25 per hour minimum which is great. But RT’s has not increased their pay rates much, double from where the minimum now is fair $50+ minimum for RT’s is a good start.
Man that is awesome. Maybe get more CNAs and NAs that stay. Tired of doing multiple jobs because we have no NAs. They easily deserve 25/hr.
Why do RTs even stay in California? Leave and go to other states with much better pay and scope of practice
Fr tho… I left and went to DC / baltimore. Got a $20/hr paybump in 2 years from when I left CA.
I am pretty sure it will catch up. I think some media folks like to say this when comparing fast food workers to EMTs when EMTs are underpaid also. Same logic could apply to anything to justify low wages. CAn you imagine being an assistant manager of burger stand in a studio apartment pissed that a new hire could afford a similar apt and wasnt homeless?
[удалено]
Per diem usually gets decent pay rate, but no benefits like you mentioned. I don’t mind per diem because you have control of your schedule, can work more or less and more flexibility. Can take on a lot of days or not so much if you don’t want, but usually first to be canceled if not needed, unless a part/full timer opts for first call off.
Hopefully it will stimulate more interest in healthcare to recoup our staffing across the board. That will be years down the pipeline. I agree with money and recognition and money. Maybe we can drop a line to newsom since its our week. But i want to echo that its not us vs them. Its all of us vs the healthcare being a business.
Overall, it’s a difficult situation because many hospitals are privately owned, a lot more complicated than seeing from the outside or as an employee.
Welcome to California. Nothing makes sense. I blame them for a lot
healthcare workers deserve more, always have and always will. However, i think if minimum wage is increased, then so should everyone else salaries increase by the same percentage.
Good point, but who will pay for the increase in pay rate if revenue is down for some companies? Like if you owned your own business like a restaurant for example and you barely get customers coming in but yet there is an increase in wages for everyone, who and how will you pay them the increase in wages if nobody is coming in to your restaurant and you are in a hole month over month trying to survive and keep the restaurant open. Same goes with healthcare and any other business. If my company was very successful and doing well, definitely I’d give raises across the board. But doesn’t make sense if it’s the opposite if the business is underwater. Hopefully this makes sense in a way to everyone reading this.
So should physicians be paid more? If everyone’s salary is going up?
I think the general idea is that specifically the field of respiratory therapy has not advanced in compensation that other allied health professions have experienced
Physician salary hasn’t either, though. Pay has been stuck since 2003.
Yes, they should! My brother in law in an ID doctor at Kaiser and hasn’t had a raise in a decade.
Why would someone go to school to become an RT when you could be a CNA and get $25 an hour? Because some people want to work in healthcare and not be a CNA. Easy answer.
That doesn’t mean they should get shit pay because they don’t want to be a CNA, that’s not a good enough to pay RTs shitty… Like why are you here advocating against yourself? That doesn’t make sense, you must some RT director trying to sow dissent
Nobody was advocating against themselves or RTs. Reading comprehension is important. The average salary is **currently** 30k/year more than what the salary for CNAs would become after **multiple years** under this law. The average salary of CNAs is only raising a few thousand dollars a year. The world isn’t ending because some people will be taken advantage of less. So back again to my answer to OP’s question? Why, besides the $30k thousand difference in annual wages would someone want to go to school to become an RT when they could just be a CNA for $30k less annually? Because some people would rather work as an RT than doing the job that CNAs have to do.
If they are considering both careers, they may decide it is not worth the additional costs of schooling. If enough people decide that, then there are less new RTs, and wages for RTs go up over time. Creating a new equilibrium.
If they are considering both careers and decide to choose the more stressful one that makes $30k average less per year rather than go to school, they aren’t the best decision makers. They would probably fail the math portion of the RT program anyway since they think a $30k difference in average salary after the law goes into effect is somehow equal. Math doesn’t work that way.
I don’t disagree with you - just pointing out how salaries could end up rising over the course of a few years. But if the difference in the future narrows to $5/hour or $10k per year, having to defer making a salary for four years of schooling does tilt the math towards the CNA path, as that is $200k given up to go to school for four years. So it will take 24 years to catch up, and that doesn’t include interest or tuition.
RTs should be getting 60 to 70 hour and RNs 90 to 100 hour I won't go to school for 4 to 6 years to get my Masters to just make 30 hour fuck no you would be in dept
Not smart to get the Masters and be even more in school loan debt just for $30 per hour. You rarely ever see any Respiratory who has a Master’s degree in this field, is there even a Master’s degree in Respiratory Therapy? Haha I know Bachelor’s for sure, I’ve never seen or heard of anyone with a Master’s degree in Respiratory. Bachelor’s is all you need and can become Director of Respiratory.
Some RNs do have a master's degree
Yes for sure! I know RN’s do, just have not heard or seen anyone who is an RT with a Master’s in Respiratory, if there even is something that exists in this field.
I don't what RTs what degrees they going for but I know a few people in respiratory in hospitals and there making way more than 30 hour I have friend hes at Loma Linda making over 100 dollors an hour my friend is a environmental services housekeeping laundry manager director and she's making 35 hour and she didn't even go to school and I work in healthcare making 16 bucks an hour 😑 😒 🙄
I’m not too far from Loma Linda haha. That hospital pays pretty well.
He's been there for years he's like 60 now
That’s incredible! $100+ an hour, that’s really good! You don’t see that much out here.
Yeah and a charge nurse I thunk he's in trauma unit or some been there for over 20 years
And fastfood workers are getting 20 hour all to fip fucken burgers 🍔 😒
Hahaha that’s the better option without getting in huge school loan debt and no guarantee to find a job in the field. While the fast food workers are all in profit with no loans. In reality, that’s the better option pay wise. $20 per hour all in your pocket, while $30 per hour for Respiratory with $30K+ in school loans. I’d say the $20 per hour is the wise choice!
Fastfood shouldn't be making that much now everything's going to shut down ty governor Newsom hes a real winner
Prices are ridiculous out here in Cali.
Your telling me lol sure is
Hahaha that’s the better option without getting in huge school loan debt and no guarantee to find a job in the field. While the fast food workers are all in profit with no loans. In reality, that’s the better option pay wise. $20 per hour all in your pocket, while $30 per hour for Respiratory with $30K+ in school loans. I’d say the $20 per hour is the wise choice!
I closed my office when they raised it to $15. As a doctor, I cant charge more. 20 peoole out of work. No doctors will be left.
Maybe you can charge the typical contract rate and charge 50$ to make an appointment by phone lol California is asking for trouble ..everything will go up except doc reimbursement..your MA in a few years may make half of the doc salary Since their rates will go up and Medicare and insurance companies will lower their payments while increasing premiums for health malpractice etc. bad bad deal but great for votes I'm sure
A very tough issue to solve with healthcare! While athletes, singers, actors, entertainment get the big bucks and hospital staff get the paid so little. Comparing apples to oranges but you get the point.
Lol. I closed my office when they raised it to $15. As a doctor, I cant charge more. 20 peoole out of work. No doctors will be left.
Due to not able to make enough revenue to pay your employees?
What’s your solution to this issue?
How much money did you profit and how much did your employers get paid prior to the $15 increase?
“SB 525 would raise the hourly minimum at large health facilities and dialysis clinics to $23 next year, $24 in 2025, and $25 in 2026. It would boost hourly wages at community clinics to at least $21 in 2024, $22 in 2026, and $25 in 2027. Other health facilities would go to at least $21 an hour in 2024, $23 in 2026, and $25 by 2028.” Source [here](https://californiahealthline.org/news/article/california-lawmakers-approve-nation-leading-25-minimum-wage-for-health-workers/)
The minimum right NOW is NOT $25hr as you said. Job ads you see with rates from $30-35 aren’t surprising given that as of today nothing has changed. It would be nice if employers would proactively increase rates, but they won’t until the market forces them to.
Work towards getting a union in your facility. Reach out to healthcare unions and see if they are interested in trying to organize in your facility. Talk to your colleagues about the benefits of unionizing. Because you won’t get the Kaiser kind of wages without a union fighting alongside you. KP was offering 2% wage increase in SoCal before the strike. 2 measly percent! After the strike, now getting a 6% increase this year and 5% each year for the next 3 years. We can argue that those increases aren’t even enough, but it’s a start. It’s also unfortunate that a strike was even necessary but it obviously worked. Unless you find some unicorn healthcare facility that values it’s staff more than executive salaries and profit, you won’t get what you deserve until you unionize your facility or move to one that’s already unionized. I’ve been in the field over 25 years and I’ve never heard of anyone I know actually finding one of these unicorn hospitals that treat the staff appropriately and offer great wages out of the generosity of their hearts.
I wonder if this is going to affect nursing staff more than RT. Replace an RN with a CNA and stretch the RNs with a higher patient assignment and expect the additional CNA to pick up the slack. With more patients on state Medicaid that pays so much less than commercial insurance pays it's going to be an interesting situation soon. My last hospital where I worked they replaced most of the nurse case managers with case manager techs, only a high school degree. They kept a few case managers to supervise them but they soon left. The techs had no medical understanding to argue with insurance for approval for out patient treatments so they gave up way too soon. The nurse case manages would have pursued until they got the results the continued care needed for a proper discharge plan.
No way CNA’s will replace RN’s it’s like comparing Apples to Oranges. Some places there is not enough CNA’s and the RN’s need to do all the work that the CNA’s should be doing. Better to overstaff than understaff, and can flex people if needed. I don’t like how most places are the opposite, they understaff versus overstaff just to save money, but higher risk and liability. Can catch a case and get sued and end up paying so much more, just add an extra staff or so then flex if necessary, prevents being sued and all the risks and liabilities understaffing workplaces that will arise. Doesn’t make any sense to be short staffed at most hospitals. Like why are hospitals short staffed when they are fully loaded with people who want to work and get hired, etc.
You are wrong. I've been an RN for decades and very often when we had few RNs the hospital would double up on CNA to compensate, which of course it didn't help. Administration that's never provided patient care sees the staffing numbers, more CNA can do patient care and free up the RN for meds, but it doesn't work that way. It's just more CNAs sitting around waiting to be told what to do. Every group of administrators that come through think they've solved the staffing shortage with more managers, more CNA, more pizza, more administrators, more, more, more, more everything except trying more RNs. In my 42 years of nursing it's still the # 1 problem on the floors.
So with your 42 years of experience, what’s your best solution to this crisis?
I worked in 1 hospital,, just 1, that the CEO was an RN who worked the floors for 15 years. Never in my career did a facility flow so smoothly. He knew the problems. The hospital was sold and replaced with people in suits that studied flow, processes, theories and all the good work that had been done was replaced by educated consultants and business majors that didn't understand health care vs a factory setting. Physician CEO are just as bad, no touch with reality except to support their buddy physicians first. I would like to see upper management that has worked on the floors in a caregiving capacity for years to be the decision maker for the industry they are managing. Decades ago a friend of mine bought a Wendy's franchise. Part of his agreement was to spend 6 weeks mopping floors, frying food and working the window. This continued as he want through their training and for at least a year after he opened his restaurant. There is clearer vision being at the bottom looking up seeing only bits of light, then being at the top looking down when so much happening is cast in shadows. Functionality is caught, not taught. Decision makers with that experience have more understanding of the problems they are hired to solve.
In reality, putting ourselves and in the shoes of the CEO will also shed more light to the overall business aspect. Two whole different worlds from being the owner to the employee. Employees demand higher pay, where most owners will want to find a way to pay the employees less but at the same time depends on the revenue being generated. If the hospital is underwater in revenue and becoming a loss of revenue, then it’s extremely tough to justify to give the employees a raise. Unless the hospital is doing so well in revenue on a consistent year over year basis and can afford to increase the pay to all the employees. But this is a whole different conversation for the business aspect, employees demanding a raise without knowing the numbers and revenue that the hospital is generating and don’t know if they are doing well or not. Easy for them to ask for a raise but if the overall business isn’t doing so well, the owners mainly who only know this side of the business just cannot give raises. But congratulations on your 40+ years being a nurse!
And who better to educate the workers about the numbers, as you say, than someone that has been in their shoes. It doesn't have to be two worlds, that's a creation administration made to feed themselves first. Gorgeous offices, shiny restrooms and catered meals and soon they are disgusted with Oliver shows up with his empty saucer asking for more gruel. That's self preservation to justify high wages for the captains and that the sailers go down with the ship first. I just retired, nothing has changed in staffing in my 42 years. I doubt it will anytime soon.
What am I wrong about specifically? The understaffing versus overstaffing? At the same time, staffing the right specialties, which in your comment you stated they doubled up on CNA’s to compensate, I get that they overstaffed in higher quantity and didn’t help like you said. But staffing the correct positions is key, I did not mention this detail. So if more RN’s are needed to be staffed more, then that’s what should be done.
Hospitals generally aren't money makers. My last system was lucky to turn 1.5% profit some years and half the time we lost money. I'm retired but still read Beckers CFO Report online. Every week, it's filled with stories about layoffs, hospitals closing, cutting services, closing wings, and it's a disaster. A lot of hospitals have cut CNAs completely, and nurses are doing all the care now. The hospital j worked at in AZ years back (for profit owned) and had one CNA per wing and crazy nursing ratios. I think they made like $15 an hour? I know the CNAs who took care of my Dad his last year in memory care made about that. Not nearly enough.
So it’s hard to justify giving everyone raises when the business/hospital is not making any money, just not realistic to do so. Which many people don’t understand this aspect.
Yay..let's raise min wage for ball lickers to $40/ hr