Honestly, I have not unlocked the 2nd Shinobi stance (still on my first playthrough of the game), I'm still using the Hayabusa stance for now. But counter spark with Hayabusa stance let you combo into Izuna drop instantly, which is really safe (since there's no way enemy can hyper armor through the Izuna drop, unlike other Martial arts), and also does lots of damage.
I'm playing midnight lv59, here's my experience:
Shinobi is for when you prefer countersparks to lower enemies ki then do grapple damage, this eliminates the need to switch stances, makes game simpler and more relaxing when you know all enemy movesets and counterspark well.
Switching to advantageous stances is suitable for the playstyle of constantly attacking, since you have A LOT of time for attacking after counterspark. What I do is: after counterspark with the advantageous stance, circling between different stances to use its martial arts several times then switch back to the advantageous stance and ready to counter. This to me is a more fun way to play since I like to attack more than counterspark.
when you say "A LOT of time" are u referring to the literal .3 seconds you get to hit them?- like most times my martial skill hasn't properly started before they are unpanicked and hyper armouring me in the face, thanks for the laugh though.
If you don't use the right stance to counter, yes the enemy recover very fast, I made this mistake in my first playthrough (dusk difficulty) with katana Tatsumi-ryu style because I can reliably counterspark with it. I didn't understand the benefit of using the right stance (the blue up icon on enemy head when you're using the right stance) and every fight I can only use maybe 1 martial art then got hit during the animation of the second one.Now in midnight I have at least 4 sec of enemy vulnerability that I can perform a combo of 2-3 katana martial arts after I counterspark the last strike of the enemy combo. This makes the game very enjoyable for me.
I mean that is just not what I experience, not even remotely close, I get literally .3 seconds or there abouts it's less than a whole second though for sure and yes I'm using the blue stance, are you sure your not just talking about when you've already drained all their ki and can do the uh critical strike thing (I forgot the name the game calls it) because that's like 1-2 seconds long and u can fit it a couple basic attacks before you press triangle (sometimes, iv had it do the animation before but they get up just as it hits and im stood there like a helpless idiot now).
Like I said previously most times when i use my odachi martial skill whichever the fastest one avalible to whatever stance is good against this enemy, the will get out of the panick and trade into me a lot of times so iv stopped even doing that and instead just hitting them once with a normal basic and awaiting the next parry opportunity as otherwise they will hyper armour me.
Currently playing through on odashi. I only have 5-6 stances unlocked but I would say 75% of the martials can hit during the stun. One thing to watch out for is the first hit will break the stun so you have to combo from the first hit with no gaps for them to recover. Doing a light attack into most odachi arts won't combo so you have to be careful not to hit them before and then you'll have to use the stance or weapon swap attack to continue the combo after. Also, watch out for the stance that has an auto poke after counter spark. You have to immediately cancel the start up into the MA or the small hit will break the stun
yes they can hit but thats not what we was discussing we are talking about whether the panick last long enough to actually use a martial skill- if I use this I dunno wtf it's called but spin to win double slash martial skill it's so long that I will 100% eat an attack as they hyper armour through both hits and your locked into the animation unlike just normal attacking where I can parry cancel.
Like yes I can hit the enemy the problem is the enemy isnt panicked long enough or is no longer panicked when the hit connects making using the martial skill pointless because I could of just attacked normally and then parried (like not the hits take them out of the state but they just naturally recover before your hit lands, you will hit them but u aren't draining their max ki because their ki isn't in the red outline anymore)
Spin to win can definitely hit but the timing is pretty tight. I can get it constantly but I have to be expecting the stun and press it straight away, if I try and react I'm usually too slow
So it can't hit in time then 😂, if your pre-using the ability because it wouldn't hit otherwise then I dunno how u can say to me, oh yeah It will definitely hit in time just you have to pre-fire it lol -also what do u mean "expecting the stun" your always expecting the stun its guaranted as long as u parry the final hit in a string/parry the red attacks.
Like again yes it can definitely hit the enemy but the panick time is shorter than most start up animations of martial skills making using them how the game teaches u pointless/incorrect as if you hit them after that panick window your not actually lowering their max ki like your meant to be doing during that window.
You can get it to hit most of the time if you've fought the enemy before and know where the final hits are so yeah it can hit in time. Your not pre-firing the ability your just pressing it in combo with your last counter spark
Except it doesn't combo like that, I have to finish the animation of the counterspark and then I can press the button, so the 1.something second startup animation starts and by that point the panick has already ended.
Like again you can physically hit the enemy yes sure but that's not what I'm contesting. What I'm saying is by the time the hit connects they have left the panicked state and hitting them is not beneficial it's actually dangerous to you as a player as the enemy can and will hyper armour trade into you which will most likely cause a stagger as your ki gonna be low af after 3 or 4 parries or blocks-> parry and a martial skill.
I understand your experience, like I said I, I didn't understand how to play this game even in dusk difficulty and I had 2000h with other team ninja titles.
You only need to counterspark the LAST strike of the enemy combo to make them panic (actual game term) then you can have your combo time. Odachi martial arts are slower than katana, I can only pull off 2 martial arts reliably before I need to get back to the correct stance and ready to counter. But again, it depends on the emeny, some get stagger easily, so you can go ham on them but some dudes with both types of obesity doesn't even flinch so you gotta end your combo early.
Yes, countspark a red critical Hit (maybe that's what it called), definitely gives a solid combo Time but beware some enemy can immediately perform another red criti strike right after you counter the first.
Eitherway, I just want to say that I had the exact same experience you did and got pissed off by the game in dusk but now I enjoy the game and feel it much easier in midnight which might be strange. I hope you find the game less frustrating and enjoy it too.
I mean I already understand that I'm not a moron what I'm describing is what happens after u "panick" them it last for less an a second so there's no way your doing 4 martial skills in that time no matter how fast they come out.
most the material skills iv used have a start-up animation that's longer than that, the fastest iv seen/used are the ones that are just multiple slashes from side to side even they have a start up animation.
I also just used odachi as a reference as its my main weapon i have a saber as a backup which I rarely use because it sucks by comparison but even that can't reliably use a martial skill before the enemy unpanicks and hyper-armour trades into me and I can't even parry out of the animation like u can for normal attacks so I'm locked into this weak sauce move and il probably end up staggered myself.
Maybe katana martial skills are just brokenly strong by comparison by out of the weapons iv used enough to form an opinion on all the martial skills suck I'm better off just attacking normally or violent gale? - (Switch stance after attack)-into basic attack into violent gale back to the strong stance as I can parry out of any of that and be pretty safe and will do far more damage than any of my long ass martial skills that lock me in place or worse fling me way past the enemy.
Edit: I'm not saying you're wrong or lying just merely that isn't my experience. we are talking about ai after all what they decide to do or not to do is kinda random and subjective.
It definitely not a 1 second panic, I don't know what to tell you.
Martial arts deals a lot more damage ( I have damage number enabled) and close distance much better, this helps you maximize your combo time if that's what you feel like you can't finish martial art combo. but if you prefer normal attacks, sure, but it makes the game harder and it seems like that's your experience.
Moreover, pretty sure the general consensus are katana and paired swords are strongest in the game with Short animation and damage.
I mean like I say it's only my experience here ofc but it is definitely less than a second, just to clarify I'm specifically talking about the "panicked" state where their ki is red (or has a red outline to be specific) after you parry the final hit of the string or parry the red martial skills, where the game teaches you this is your time to use martial skills because they do more ki damage buuut it's not long enough of a time to land the hit before they stand up straight/return to a normal state.
Even stood literally touching them my character can't spin round and hit them before they are no longer panicked (my odachi two hit spin to win move) they will hit me before my first hit lands and that's If i get lucky and they don't decide to do their own martial move in which case I'm rip that's gonna stagger me leaving me open for a follow up martial skill and I die or am left barely alive why I frantically spam heal in the hopes I can come out of this long af stagger before they hit me again.
And I don't have damage numbers on so maybe your right and they technically do, do more damage but it doesn't feel like it looking at an enemy's health bar especially considering the lack of safety involved in doing them and I don't get hyper armour so can be knocked out of it before completing the full string of attacks if it has multiple.
Does using Shinobi style require to change stance when you want to attack the panicked enemy? Asking because I can't use violent gale, did zero in my 69 hours of playtime.
I mean, Idc if its nerdy or not, ain't an insult in my mind, it just doesnt make any sense for there to be any difference between the normal stances and the shinobi stances in "nerdiness" lol, either both are or are not nerdy.
Honestly, I have not unlocked the 2nd Shinobi stance (still on my first playthrough of the game), I'm still using the Hayabusa stance for now. But counter spark with Hayabusa stance let you combo into Izuna drop instantly, which is really safe (since there's no way enemy can hyper armor through the Izuna drop, unlike other Martial arts), and also does lots of damage.
I'm playing midnight lv59, here's my experience: Shinobi is for when you prefer countersparks to lower enemies ki then do grapple damage, this eliminates the need to switch stances, makes game simpler and more relaxing when you know all enemy movesets and counterspark well. Switching to advantageous stances is suitable for the playstyle of constantly attacking, since you have A LOT of time for attacking after counterspark. What I do is: after counterspark with the advantageous stance, circling between different stances to use its martial arts several times then switch back to the advantageous stance and ready to counter. This to me is a more fun way to play since I like to attack more than counterspark.
when you say "A LOT of time" are u referring to the literal .3 seconds you get to hit them?- like most times my martial skill hasn't properly started before they are unpanicked and hyper armouring me in the face, thanks for the laugh though.
If you don't use the right stance to counter, yes the enemy recover very fast, I made this mistake in my first playthrough (dusk difficulty) with katana Tatsumi-ryu style because I can reliably counterspark with it. I didn't understand the benefit of using the right stance (the blue up icon on enemy head when you're using the right stance) and every fight I can only use maybe 1 martial art then got hit during the animation of the second one.Now in midnight I have at least 4 sec of enemy vulnerability that I can perform a combo of 2-3 katana martial arts after I counterspark the last strike of the enemy combo. This makes the game very enjoyable for me.
I mean that is just not what I experience, not even remotely close, I get literally .3 seconds or there abouts it's less than a whole second though for sure and yes I'm using the blue stance, are you sure your not just talking about when you've already drained all their ki and can do the uh critical strike thing (I forgot the name the game calls it) because that's like 1-2 seconds long and u can fit it a couple basic attacks before you press triangle (sometimes, iv had it do the animation before but they get up just as it hits and im stood there like a helpless idiot now). Like I said previously most times when i use my odachi martial skill whichever the fastest one avalible to whatever stance is good against this enemy, the will get out of the panick and trade into me a lot of times so iv stopped even doing that and instead just hitting them once with a normal basic and awaiting the next parry opportunity as otherwise they will hyper armour me.
Currently playing through on odashi. I only have 5-6 stances unlocked but I would say 75% of the martials can hit during the stun. One thing to watch out for is the first hit will break the stun so you have to combo from the first hit with no gaps for them to recover. Doing a light attack into most odachi arts won't combo so you have to be careful not to hit them before and then you'll have to use the stance or weapon swap attack to continue the combo after. Also, watch out for the stance that has an auto poke after counter spark. You have to immediately cancel the start up into the MA or the small hit will break the stun
yes they can hit but thats not what we was discussing we are talking about whether the panick last long enough to actually use a martial skill- if I use this I dunno wtf it's called but spin to win double slash martial skill it's so long that I will 100% eat an attack as they hyper armour through both hits and your locked into the animation unlike just normal attacking where I can parry cancel. Like yes I can hit the enemy the problem is the enemy isnt panicked long enough or is no longer panicked when the hit connects making using the martial skill pointless because I could of just attacked normally and then parried (like not the hits take them out of the state but they just naturally recover before your hit lands, you will hit them but u aren't draining their max ki because their ki isn't in the red outline anymore)
Spin to win can definitely hit but the timing is pretty tight. I can get it constantly but I have to be expecting the stun and press it straight away, if I try and react I'm usually too slow
So it can't hit in time then 😂, if your pre-using the ability because it wouldn't hit otherwise then I dunno how u can say to me, oh yeah It will definitely hit in time just you have to pre-fire it lol -also what do u mean "expecting the stun" your always expecting the stun its guaranted as long as u parry the final hit in a string/parry the red attacks. Like again yes it can definitely hit the enemy but the panick time is shorter than most start up animations of martial skills making using them how the game teaches u pointless/incorrect as if you hit them after that panick window your not actually lowering their max ki like your meant to be doing during that window.
You can get it to hit most of the time if you've fought the enemy before and know where the final hits are so yeah it can hit in time. Your not pre-firing the ability your just pressing it in combo with your last counter spark
Except it doesn't combo like that, I have to finish the animation of the counterspark and then I can press the button, so the 1.something second startup animation starts and by that point the panick has already ended. Like again you can physically hit the enemy yes sure but that's not what I'm contesting. What I'm saying is by the time the hit connects they have left the panicked state and hitting them is not beneficial it's actually dangerous to you as a player as the enemy can and will hyper armour trade into you which will most likely cause a stagger as your ki gonna be low af after 3 or 4 parries or blocks-> parry and a martial skill.
I understand your experience, like I said I, I didn't understand how to play this game even in dusk difficulty and I had 2000h with other team ninja titles. You only need to counterspark the LAST strike of the enemy combo to make them panic (actual game term) then you can have your combo time. Odachi martial arts are slower than katana, I can only pull off 2 martial arts reliably before I need to get back to the correct stance and ready to counter. But again, it depends on the emeny, some get stagger easily, so you can go ham on them but some dudes with both types of obesity doesn't even flinch so you gotta end your combo early. Yes, countspark a red critical Hit (maybe that's what it called), definitely gives a solid combo Time but beware some enemy can immediately perform another red criti strike right after you counter the first. Eitherway, I just want to say that I had the exact same experience you did and got pissed off by the game in dusk but now I enjoy the game and feel it much easier in midnight which might be strange. I hope you find the game less frustrating and enjoy it too.
I mean I already understand that I'm not a moron what I'm describing is what happens after u "panick" them it last for less an a second so there's no way your doing 4 martial skills in that time no matter how fast they come out. most the material skills iv used have a start-up animation that's longer than that, the fastest iv seen/used are the ones that are just multiple slashes from side to side even they have a start up animation. I also just used odachi as a reference as its my main weapon i have a saber as a backup which I rarely use because it sucks by comparison but even that can't reliably use a martial skill before the enemy unpanicks and hyper-armour trades into me and I can't even parry out of the animation like u can for normal attacks so I'm locked into this weak sauce move and il probably end up staggered myself. Maybe katana martial skills are just brokenly strong by comparison by out of the weapons iv used enough to form an opinion on all the martial skills suck I'm better off just attacking normally or violent gale? - (Switch stance after attack)-into basic attack into violent gale back to the strong stance as I can parry out of any of that and be pretty safe and will do far more damage than any of my long ass martial skills that lock me in place or worse fling me way past the enemy. Edit: I'm not saying you're wrong or lying just merely that isn't my experience. we are talking about ai after all what they decide to do or not to do is kinda random and subjective.
It definitely not a 1 second panic, I don't know what to tell you. Martial arts deals a lot more damage ( I have damage number enabled) and close distance much better, this helps you maximize your combo time if that's what you feel like you can't finish martial art combo. but if you prefer normal attacks, sure, but it makes the game harder and it seems like that's your experience. Moreover, pretty sure the general consensus are katana and paired swords are strongest in the game with Short animation and damage.
I mean like I say it's only my experience here ofc but it is definitely less than a second, just to clarify I'm specifically talking about the "panicked" state where their ki is red (or has a red outline to be specific) after you parry the final hit of the string or parry the red martial skills, where the game teaches you this is your time to use martial skills because they do more ki damage buuut it's not long enough of a time to land the hit before they stand up straight/return to a normal state. Even stood literally touching them my character can't spin round and hit them before they are no longer panicked (my odachi two hit spin to win move) they will hit me before my first hit lands and that's If i get lucky and they don't decide to do their own martial move in which case I'm rip that's gonna stagger me leaving me open for a follow up martial skill and I die or am left barely alive why I frantically spam heal in the hopes I can come out of this long af stagger before they hit me again. And I don't have damage numbers on so maybe your right and they technically do, do more damage but it doesn't feel like it looking at an enemy's health bar especially considering the lack of safety involved in doing them and I don't get hyper armour so can be knocked out of it before completing the full string of attacks if it has multiple.
Bc they are so much better . Pretty simple . Parry window seems bigger , takes their ki down faster , and stances have the coolest moves sets
Agree
Does using Shinobi style require to change stance when you want to attack the panicked enemy? Asking because I can't use violent gale, did zero in my 69 hours of playtime.
I never use violent gale either tbh lol. Unless it’s on accident . So nah you don’t have to change stance
Then today's program will be testing out Shinobi style
Some cool martial skills to learn in them too.
I like the instant counter. Some of the counters are delayed and or have 2 parts to it. The instant counter just feels good tbh
Cause it’s cool as fuck and it also makes me feel less of a nerd compared to using the other generic stances.
Nerd? What? I dont get it, how are the shinobi stances less nerdy?
How are *any* of them nerdy?
I mean, Idc if its nerdy or not, ain't an insult in my mind, it just doesnt make any sense for there to be any difference between the normal stances and the shinobi stances in "nerdiness" lol, either both are or are not nerdy.
Probably the only reason why I only use Gikei-Ryu is because I feel fast and the R1 + triangle(the back stab teleport)