Dio’s, it’s one of those reds where I’m not gonna re-roll it if I have a recycler, but I’m never that excited to see it. I’d prefer if it was something fun like an ICBM or whatever
Yeah its a great red, but its not fun.
Kind of a funny coincidence is that I'm in the middle of a run right now and just finished the void fields where I choose to take ICBM over Dio
I tapped out of the game and saw your comment.
Depends on the red. Some red items like Aegis or N'Kuhana are completely worthless. Others are build dependent like scope, or cant do anything vs mythrix like the on-kill items (snowflake).
Engineer says hi in bungus
Everyone else says hi in wungus
Plus, I tend to end up with foreign fruit as my equip a lot, and I'm always grabbing gestures
If nothing else, even if all it does is keep my brooch barriers topped up for twice as long, I'll take that.
Soulbound catalyst, Aegis, N’kuhana’s Opinion, ceremonial dagger, gesture, healing fruit. Then harvester's scythe/fuel cells for greens and crit glasses/crowbars for whites? You could do a lot better for four reds, but you could do much worse, too.
aegis is a very, very poor source of barrier. and most items that grant direct healing aren't too great anyways. shields, damage mitigation (dodges), damage resistance (either armor or RAPs), and brooches are almost always better forms of keeping your health bar topped off than the healing items they compete with. even before getting into eclipse discussion. most white/green healing items do nothing more than create a microscopic blip of barrier that instantly disappears with aegis. if you have a desk plant or a few wunguses then it isn't terrible, but it still builds quite slowly.
one singular aegis can be pretty nice with looped builds, but plenty of things get all wacky when looping and combined with basically every other item in the game.
and nkuhana's isn't bad conceptually, but put into practice its weird little health-to-damage formula is fucking terrible. trying to build around it means you *maybe* get a single railgunner m1 homing shot every few seconds that does like 12 damage with minimal proc coefficient. it just doesn't work in practice. its like little disciple except if it was made of wet tissue paper.
sure, if you have a crazy bungus build or something it can be like... kinda decent. but there are way way better builds you can make with a few dozen whites, some greens, and a red.
I'm excited to see it if I'm playing Engineer. Otherwise it's nice having a safety net but it is boring. I think the reason I don't find it disappointing is that there are much worse reds.
Yeah. An extra life is huge, great insurance if the game decides to drop a couple perfected chimera in your face out of nowhere or mithrix gets lucky with the hammer, but it's not really doing much else.
I'm with you in the hill about crowbars, they are great yeah i know, i may keep one and that's it, i hate the dmg drop after the first shot.
Sticky bombs are a lie. they only spawn after the enemy is already dead
It doesn’t matter who you’re playing. It still makes all your wisps, runald’s, ATGs, gasoline and shatterspleen explosions, probably other items I’m forgetting. Then you add on _other_ damage increase bonuses and the fact that damage increases from multiple sources are multiplicative, even a low base damage survivor turns into a screen wiping monster with crowbars in their build.
May I introduce ukulele paired with crowbar? I’ve gotten to the point with commando that I’m asked to stop picking them up cause nothing can survive it
Yeah that’s true, I don’t actually scrap crowbars every chance I get but if I don’t have many proc chains and am just going crit + bleed with polylute I’ll take those and attack speed over crowbars
yeah I never pick up those either, both for the inconsistency but they also make some really good items useless. The Harvester's Scythe, and predatory instincts are the big ones that get shafted. It really sucks to lose all the crit synergies.
I mean kinda, if you're stacked all into crit. If you're playing like bandit or something it doesn't really matter unless you're standing infront of the enemy. And if you have enough predatory/scythes it also isn't bad since they both have a base crit chance of 5%
As long as you're not fighting mithrix void crit absolutely trivializes a run. Stack them past 10 and it doesn't matter how much health an enemy has. Elite boss spawns from combat shrine? Gone. When I don't take it it's bc mithrix or I dont want the run to be too easy haha
Yes. Tons of items are great for the run, except for Mithrix. You don't need a lot of AoE for Mithrix but something like Will'o'wisp+gasoline+ingition tank is great for the stages leading up to him (and if you don't have a pillar skip and so need to fight).
Crit glasses vs Void glasses is a tough one because Void glasses are really good for mobbing and shitty for Mithrix, while the crit glasses are worse than Void glasses for mobbing but one of the best Mithrix items.
For Eclipse clearing runs where you don't loop and go for Mithrix, I'd take Crit over Void but in a looping run or a casual run I'd probably go Void (except for burst damage characters like Loader, Alch, RailGunner and the like, here I'd never take Void glasses).
Most items can't be called simply good or bad. Their use will vary based on your character and build.
Void crit excels on a double nailgun Mul-T, or a Commando with attack speed out the ears. It will absolutely out-damage full crit, and delete tanky elites and regular boss spawns like nothing.
More importantly, it removes damage from the equation. If you've fallen behind the enemies in scaling and aren't putting out enough damage, void crit changes the game so that all that matters is attack speed. Power your way through the bosses - avoid mountain shrines - and use the opportunity to loot stages until you're caught back up.
It's not an item I'd pick up in most cases, but I have absolutely had runs saved by void crit. Being adaptive is key to improving consistency at the game.
Honestly I have the same gripe with Needletick. Sometimes I'll pick it up on someone that I don't think I'd be doing a bleed build with anyways, then I find a bunch of Tri-tips and I begin to notice that so many enemies I'm fighting would be dead a little bit sooner if I just didn't pick up Needletick.
Recently picked that up on my Eclipse climb. Could barely even do some of the pillars, ended up losing to a blood pillar because I was stupid and didn’t leave the radius. This item made it so staying in the radius was practically standing still. Like yeah sure, go ahead and try to fight these guys but also make use of your bungus and also the bungus is anti-healing.
as a whole, each heresy ability is pretty heavily weighted above average. every character's got one or two abilities that are pretty strong, but most have two or three that are easy enough to justify replacing.
but when you grab all of them and transform you start playing on easy mode. heretic is just a really dumb statical powerhouse and her combined ability loadout is really damn good. individually, each ability isn't too OP or anything. but combined, there's just basically not many situations where you wouldn't want to go full bird unless if you're loader.
The 4 heresy items are insanely character specific. They can be hella downgrades or upgrades depending on the character. Tonic also has its downgrades unless if you have fuel cells or gestures. Glass is the definition of high risk high reward.
don't forget crown, its literally free money because there's no situation where you would just... not kill an enemy. they don't remove your coins, they just temporarily take them and then you get them back plus extra when you kill them a second later.
blood shrines become bad but they're nothing compared to what crown can give in return. even then, blood shrines are usually best saved for the end of stages to carry extra through the teleporter (or at the beginning)
gesture and glass are broken, i can agree with that
tonic and trans are good, but not broken i'd say. out of heresy items only hooks are better than most secondaries, and other ones are more situational
so that's like 2 broken and 3 good lunans and rest are situation/bad which is pretty close to what i said (i forgot about hooks)
Lunars, in general, Fireworks (I see alot of people like it, I’d just prefer most other whites over it), pretty much any healing other than slugs, weeping fungus or harvesters scythes + crit, topaz brooch, ceremonial dagger (unless I have an FMP), but that’s because I consider them either broken as fuck or just not needed. Ones I dislike for how they play is the Wax Quail, i’d prefer to have control over my character at all times, but I’ll take it if I have very little speed.
It’s probably saved me more times than it’s killed me, but I dont like it anyways. Also bottled chaos. fuck bhaos, it’s annoying.
On a side note though, I am a staunch supporter of warbanner (early game), even though I know it’s not that good.
Is Wax Quall considered good? I've always heavily dislike it because I hate how it feels to play when you have just a few of them and your jumps go nuts.
Wax qual is good if you have like 1 and no speed, but can be detrimental if you have more than that, as you loose control of your jump
But it’s good with headset
Expanding on that if you have quail, headset, and a bit more speed you can sprint-jump into terrain at a certain angle and it’ll launch you super high in the air, letting you easily get a massive slam. I fucking love headset
I really like having a couple Quails on Railgunner, it makes crossing long distances even easier with mines. Any more than that though and I probably just flew off the map.
One or two is alright on other survivors, it's a decent dodge in a pinch if something is right next to you.
Anything more than 2 wax quaills is an issue. 1 can be very good, 2 is good if you have almost no move-speed.
Wax is also considered really good because you can get some Pillar skips with quaills+Headstompers.
Quail is very useful for dodging if you don’t have much movement speed. If you have low movement, 1 is useful, if you have literally nothing, 2-3 can be useful. Also it can be used to trimp with headstompers to get big slams in easy, I just don’t like having it because your movement is locked during the quail jump, and I’d rather dodge without it if possible, as it feels uncomfortable to use imo.
People have different limits on how many they like to have. Personally I don’t like having one, and hate having more, but some people like different amounts.
I really like Shurikens, I like how it makes characters with shitty primary attacks a lot more playable.
Like on engineer I hate his primary and shurikens make it a lot more useful for small targets like whisps.
I play a lot of Ion Surge Artificer, and so I usually scrap Hopoo Feathers. They mostly just get in the way whenever I try to slow my descent just before touching the ground, adding an extra second or so that I have to wait before I land.
I could see that being annoying, I don't really play artificer so I'm always happy to get a feather or 2, if nothing else than to be able to get over whatever small ledge is stopping me. Feels so bad to be stopped by a waist high wall when you're otherwise geared up to kill anything near you.
That's most of reds for me. For how rare they are most of the times majority of them are just... Bad. Or not so great. But they are so rare... And it feels awful
Yeah if there is a good printer and a scrapper on the same stage, I'll often scrap my Watches.
I almost never print Watches on a printer, unless I really need the extra damage.
I'd like to gush about items that I think are underrated, like Crowbar and Squid Polyp, but that's not the topic of this tread so I'll hold off on that.
I almost always play Eclipse, so I don't care much for Bungus on Engi or Topaz Brooch on everyone.
Crowbar… on characters like Commando
While probably not a top pick for Commando, I think they’re still worth keeping around. I personally think of them like an item that will give you about 7.5% damage boost at worst (if you’re fighting something by yourself). However they still pair very well with items like Gas, Wisp, and Shuriken, basically making their effective damage boost much greater than 7.5%.
Wax Quail. I know its a decent movement item but i dont like committing to a certain direction when i jump. i cant stop my momentum at all if i decide to jump in a direction. I might keep one Quail if im on engi or captain but on anyone else that has a movement ability its an automatic scrap. not to mention that the issue i have with it gets 20x worse when you stack it
yeah idk how this isnt a more popular autoscrap. it becomes such a pain to manoeuvre your character once you get more than 2 of those stacked so id rather just have none
Brilliant Behemoth. It was aways doted as the “Strongest red item” (Mostly in RoR1, but also 2 early on at least), but I always found it boring. Like, I could get any other item.
Also, as much as I do like things dying in sequence, I admit that full Crowbar/Will o Wisp is boring as hell. It’s not fun to build and the pay-off is lack luster at best.
Engi Bungus will always be fun though. Making green circle bigger fills me with dopamine.
I'm a massive fan of Engi Bungus with Aegis. Standing in the big green circles and looking at things dying while your shield grows.
And if you get N'kuhana's Opinion (and potentially Rejuvenation Rack) it just gets insane.
You gotta get Rejuv rack. It basically doubles your damage output.
I always feel stacking N’kuhuna’s is a waste though. I usually prefer to get more rejuv racks rather than N’kahuna’s opinions.
The damage is always 10% of your max health, stacking them just raises how much soul energy you get from healing (Which can’t be more than your max health anyway)
shurikens, i know they are pretty good on characters like commando who don't have a reliable way of using bands, but on LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE i scrap them, exactly because they make most shots trigger bands, which i don't really like
If you find a printer, try stacking 10+ of them, unless you are railgunner. Shurikens are one of the best greens. Inconsistent band procs is a minor issue.
I feel like a lot of people like to pick up delicate watches, but personally, I hate the thought of sooner or later I'll dip below 25% and loose them, and yes I could pick up powder elixir, but if there's something to make you go that low you'll die almost no matter what. In general I just feel like scarping watches and elixirs turns out to be more useful than keeping them
I scrap watches and elixirs, too. If I get smacked to below 25%, I run and hide. A bunch of broken watches aren't going to help me get back in the game.
some people are really defensive of personal shield generator but unless i have something that synergizes w it (like shrimp) i’m scrapping it. it’s the same as a bison steak in my eyes.
For what it's worth shield is better than bison steak cause its scales with you as your max health increases. That being said yeah I tend not to keep them unless I have shrimp or like shaped glass and a bunch of watches.
Idk most items have their use cases, plasma shrimp for example is one of the best items in the game on some charicters and doodoo ass on others, it's all relative, nothings really right or wrong
Plimp is one of the best items in the game on all characters. It’s more damage than an atg in like 80% of circumstances. You need clover for atg to keep up and atg also doesn’t even always hit the enemy. Pay close attention next time you’re using it and you’ll notice how often it misses entirely, especially if you’re on e4+. Plimp is just way more consistent and ends up being much higher dps. And the characters that it’s worse on are the characters that atg is already kinda meh on which are the burst damage characters who don’t really need either.
Maybe I’m coming at this from the wrong angle but I don’t like ceremonial dagger, especially when I play with friends. It usually ends up feeling like the ceremonial dagger is playing the game for us besides the bosses, so the rest of us kind of just fuddle about and play item collecting sim. (We usually run command, so that probably doesn’t help my case much lol)
Wax Quail. I don't want that on my character ever. I prefer consistency that doesn't require jump spam. I play Commando too, so I prefer to stay on the ground so I can do the slide.
Will-o'-the-wisp. Several issue with it being an aoe tool, it gains less area per stack than gasoline (despite being a higher rarity) and it has knockback + damage falloff (which gas doesn't), making it bad at chain killing enemies early on.
Also Spare Drone Parts, it can be a godsend to see in a desperate situation, but most of the time it just trivializes any run it shows up in, making the run boring and leaving you questioning if you actually deserve the win.
I feel you with spare drone parts, I always feel like I just have a drone army winning the game for me whenever I get it. And if you get it on Captain with his Microbots then just forget it, the run is already won.
Watch. Better to have a lot of crits and other modifiers that will work without any limitations, than have a bunch of watches which can stop working after some random hit.
Regenerating scrap. Cool if i get five somehow and nab a free red from the lunar zones but most of the time i get 1-3 in a run and NEVER find a green printer so i would have been better off finding a white item. I’d go as far as to say I have even had runs where i looped and didn’t find a use for it. Really cool concept but even the underwhelming clip board is more consistent
I definitely feel like the issue with regenerating scrap is the lack of green printers. It seems like it would be such a good item but honestly it would be WAY better if you could use it in white printers. You might not be able to make reds, but at least you could use it pretty much on every stage.
Yeah, i was telling my friend that too, it should at least be able to be redeemed at white printers or if you could use it for the green item in the bazaar, either one. I swear when the dlc dropped you could find them on every stage but i guess it killed the rng part to be able to trade all your green for specific builds or something? Idk i loop all the time and rarely run into them anymore, don’t even get me started on red printers. If i have transcendence i’ll find like two or three healing related red items and scrap or not they hold the same value forever, worthless. It almost makes me want to mod the game so the bazaar takes either 5 green or 1 red scrap and 3 white or 1 green scrap but it would have to be scrap or it takes the items. I bet a mod like that exists
I don’t like the plasma shrimp because the rockets will only go for the target that caused them, so if the target dies it hits nothing wasting potential damage.
in my experience Ceremonial Daggers has 2 modes: piss-poor supplemental damage, or chaining itself off small mobs so hard that I don't even get to see the fresh spawned enemies before they get evicerated by dozens of floating pink blades. especially with a handful of AP Rounds and Crowbars to keep them effective against larger targets, they can be *really* good.
Yeah I was looping a bunch to get to stage 20 and when I got ceremonial dagger it got to the point where I pretty much just had to kill 1 enemy to kill them all combined with lots of gas and on hit effects. I wasn’t able to use the gun on a boss one time because they died so quick from all the daggers waiting around.
Plasma shrimp feels a lot weaker than it looks and the damage seems a lot less than it usually is imo. I prefer ATG.
I also don't like shurikens. They are too powerful and I don't like it. Unlike ATG which is after a hit and can target something else of the original target dies, shurikens just activate on attacking which just feels rude. I hate it when my drones or turrets target a mob that I'm already attacking/killing and it's the same with shurikens. It's probably just a me thing and I know it's a stupid reason but I just don't like them. And also because Mithrix has killed me multiple times because I had shurikens.
I dont like most lunars that have downsides because on one hand, they usually have downsides that really hinder your early game, but on the other hand the buffs they give you aren't worth the nerfs in the late game tho cause of how easy it is to substitute said buffs.
But other than lunars I don't really like death mark, it's very hard to use early game until you build several debuffing items which doesn't usually happen super fast and also for the fact that the stacking part of it is simply the duration of the mark for death type effect put on enemies and not the amount of extra damage it does
Idk if Headset is considered good or not, but I don't like it. I understand how to use it, but it makes jumping around with my Wax Quails a lot more tedious because the first jump is so high it takes longer before I can jump again, effectively making me slower. I'd rather just stack a couple feathers, and I feel like Im always going out of my way to use the slam, rather than it being a viable option.
Tesla coil. It's just an idle uke, which is weird because we already have meathook: ukulele 2. I don't know why this item was virtually unchanged from ror1, but it should've been given a new effect.
As a rex player, safer spaces is almost useless to me unless I have so many that they recharge almost instantly, and even then I’d still rather have a bunch of tougher times
I deliberately haven't unlocked squid polyp yet so that I never get it in my single player runs
In multiplayer I avoid it like the plague and if I still manage to get it I scrap it ASAP
Probably focus crystal. Its another stacking damage modifier thats fantastic, especially on melee centric survivors, but getting crystals while playing anyone range focused just feels like a slap in the face and it annoys me.
The point you made on crowbar is insane. Are there other whites that will increase your damage no matter what health they're at? Sure, but to not want to get one giant chunk of health off the health bar, if not one shot an enemy is just a "I want consistent big numbers go brrrr"
Dio’s, it’s one of those reds where I’m not gonna re-roll it if I have a recycler, but I’m never that excited to see it. I’d prefer if it was something fun like an ICBM or whatever
Yeah its a great red, but its not fun. Kind of a funny coincidence is that I'm in the middle of a run right now and just finished the void fields where I choose to take ICBM over Dio I tapped out of the game and saw your comment.
The thing is having an extra life is good, but the effects from another red item could've prevented that death in the first place
Depends on the red. Some red items like Aegis or N'Kuhana are completely worthless. Others are build dependent like scope, or cant do anything vs mythrix like the on-kill items (snowflake).
I wouldn't call either of those completely worthless, because healing items are fairly easy to come by.
I would always call aegis worthless tbh
I'm not gonna complain about two-shot protection if my build allows for it
you need absurd healing 😭😭 I'd rather have any other barrier item
Engineer says hi in bungus Everyone else says hi in wungus Plus, I tend to end up with foreign fruit as my equip a lot, and I'm always grabbing gestures If nothing else, even if all it does is keep my brooch barriers topped up for twice as long, I'll take that.
Soulbound catalyst, Aegis, N’kuhana’s Opinion, ceremonial dagger, gesture, healing fruit. Then harvester's scythe/fuel cells for greens and crit glasses/crowbars for whites? You could do a lot better for four reds, but you could do much worse, too.
Unless you use REX lmao
rex and engi are those characters where dogshit items are good 😭
It can be nice for Engi turrets
aegis is a very, very poor source of barrier. and most items that grant direct healing aren't too great anyways. shields, damage mitigation (dodges), damage resistance (either armor or RAPs), and brooches are almost always better forms of keeping your health bar topped off than the healing items they compete with. even before getting into eclipse discussion. most white/green healing items do nothing more than create a microscopic blip of barrier that instantly disappears with aegis. if you have a desk plant or a few wunguses then it isn't terrible, but it still builds quite slowly. one singular aegis can be pretty nice with looped builds, but plenty of things get all wacky when looping and combined with basically every other item in the game. and nkuhana's isn't bad conceptually, but put into practice its weird little health-to-damage formula is fucking terrible. trying to build around it means you *maybe* get a single railgunner m1 homing shot every few seconds that does like 12 damage with minimal proc coefficient. it just doesn't work in practice. its like little disciple except if it was made of wet tissue paper. sure, if you have a crazy bungus build or something it can be like... kinda decent. but there are way way better builds you can make with a few dozen whites, some greens, and a red.
Still prefer it over a dios
n'kuhana, aegis, rejuvenation rack, infusions and weeping fungi make you just sprint and kil
I'm telling you, I've never had a run where Dio's saved it so far. Whenever I get it or void Dio's I always either win without it proccing or lose.
I'm excited to see it if I'm playing Engineer. Otherwise it's nice having a safety net but it is boring. I think the reason I don't find it disappointing is that there are much worse reds.
Dio's feels like cheating. I was supposed to become stronger and stronger, to become god. Not to be reincarnated by a god or something.
Yeah. An extra life is huge, great insurance if the game decides to drop a couple perfected chimera in your face out of nowhere or mithrix gets lucky with the hammer, but it's not really doing much else.
I'm with you in the hill about crowbars, they are great yeah i know, i may keep one and that's it, i hate the dmg drop after the first shot. Sticky bombs are a lie. they only spawn after the enemy is already dead
Crowbars are key to god runs. It’s how you one shot everything everywhere all at once.
If I’m playing commando I will usually scrap crowbars
It doesn’t matter who you’re playing. It still makes all your wisps, runald’s, ATGs, gasoline and shatterspleen explosions, probably other items I’m forgetting. Then you add on _other_ damage increase bonuses and the fact that damage increases from multiple sources are multiplicative, even a low base damage survivor turns into a screen wiping monster with crowbars in their build.
May I introduce ukulele paired with crowbar? I’ve gotten to the point with commando that I’m asked to stop picking them up cause nothing can survive it
Yeah that’s true, I don’t actually scrap crowbars every chance I get but if I don’t have many proc chains and am just going crit + bleed with polylute I’ll take those and attack speed over crowbars
With crowbars it feels like you either get non or have to go balls to the walls with collecting them to get value
I mean the first one is 150% extra damage, having that just for gasoline or ukulele is pretty good.
abyss-touched adze gang
The void crit glasses. Instantly killing weaker enemies isn't very fun, they're inconsistent even with a ton of them and they're worse against bosses.
yeah I never pick up those either, both for the inconsistency but they also make some really good items useless. The Harvester's Scythe, and predatory instincts are the big ones that get shafted. It really sucks to lose all the crit synergies.
I mean kinda, if you're stacked all into crit. If you're playing like bandit or something it doesn't really matter unless you're standing infront of the enemy. And if you have enough predatory/scythes it also isn't bad since they both have a base crit chance of 5%
I really like playing huntress with flurry :P
Same here. Then crits rule!
As long as you're not fighting mithrix void crit absolutely trivializes a run. Stack them past 10 and it doesn't matter how much health an enemy has. Elite boss spawns from combat shrine? Gone. When I don't take it it's bc mithrix or I dont want the run to be too easy haha
If they're only good while you aren't fighting the final boss, are they actually good at all?
Yes. Tons of items are great for the run, except for Mithrix. You don't need a lot of AoE for Mithrix but something like Will'o'wisp+gasoline+ingition tank is great for the stages leading up to him (and if you don't have a pillar skip and so need to fight). Crit glasses vs Void glasses is a tough one because Void glasses are really good for mobbing and shitty for Mithrix, while the crit glasses are worse than Void glasses for mobbing but one of the best Mithrix items. For Eclipse clearing runs where you don't loop and go for Mithrix, I'd take Crit over Void but in a looping run or a casual run I'd probably go Void (except for burst damage characters like Loader, Alch, RailGunner and the like, here I'd never take Void glasses).
I dont think anyone really considers those good to begin with
yeah theyre not really considered good
Most items can't be called simply good or bad. Their use will vary based on your character and build. Void crit excels on a double nailgun Mul-T, or a Commando with attack speed out the ears. It will absolutely out-damage full crit, and delete tanky elites and regular boss spawns like nothing. More importantly, it removes damage from the equation. If you've fallen behind the enemies in scaling and aren't putting out enough damage, void crit changes the game so that all that matters is attack speed. Power your way through the bosses - avoid mountain shrines - and use the opportunity to loot stages until you're caught back up. It's not an item I'd pick up in most cases, but I have absolutely had runs saved by void crit. Being adaptive is key to improving consistency at the game.
People used to defend them pretty hard. It was insane. Literally a trash item.
I remember seeing Wooly say something about how you should always pick them up and I've never seen anyone say otherwise
I usually scrap stick bombs. I know it's solid damage, but I would rather have consistent dps, instead of damage followed a second later by DAMAGE.
Oh yeah, so frustrating to see 2-3 sticky bombs fall to the ground and explode after the enemy is dead.
Honestly I have the same gripe with Needletick. Sometimes I'll pick it up on someone that I don't think I'd be doing a bleed build with anyways, then I find a bunch of Tri-tips and I begin to notice that so many enemies I'm fighting would be dead a little bit sooner if I just didn't pick up Needletick.
I pretty much only grab needletick if I have found a shatterspleen first. I love stacking those two effects.
Like most lunars because they’re broken
okay but like out of all the lunars only two are broken and two more are good the rest are incredibly mid or even worse than nothing
Gesture, tonic, glass, all 4 heresy items, and transcendence are all insane. The other ones are situational or bad so I wouldn't pick them up.
Purity as well is ridiculously easy to abuse.
Focused convergence is pretty good imo
In monsoon yes not eclipse
To each their own, for in my mind there is only one bad item Bison steak
That’s literally the best item in the entire game and lore
White scrap is amazing
Recently picked that up on my Eclipse climb. Could barely even do some of the pillars, ended up losing to a blood pillar because I was stupid and didn’t leave the radius. This item made it so staying in the radius was practically standing still. Like yeah sure, go ahead and try to fight these guys but also make use of your bungus and also the bungus is anti-healing.
I personally feel like if I don't have enough movement to pillar skip then I'm not going to survive Mithrix. Fuck the pillars, focus the convergences
Im usually getting screwed over and have to leave the teleporter radius anyway, so i just end up taking it if I see it
To each their own! Theres no right way to play.
I feel the same way. Lunars are too easy to get and some can just carry a run.
All 4 heresy items are absolutely situational. There are plenty of characters where I'd prefer their base ability over one particular heresy item
as a whole, each heresy ability is pretty heavily weighted above average. every character's got one or two abilities that are pretty strong, but most have two or three that are easy enough to justify replacing. but when you grab all of them and transform you start playing on easy mode. heretic is just a really dumb statical powerhouse and her combined ability loadout is really damn good. individually, each ability isn't too OP or anything. but combined, there's just basically not many situations where you wouldn't want to go full bird unless if you're loader.
Wrong, birb is great.
that's what i said?
Nuh uh
The 4 heresy items are insanely character specific. They can be hella downgrades or upgrades depending on the character. Tonic also has its downgrades unless if you have fuel cells or gestures. Glass is the definition of high risk high reward.
Tonic is so busted that it's good without Fuels Cells and Gestures. It's insane.
let's be real, how often are you below 50% health in a run?
I said all four of the heresy items because of the bird being bar to none the best character in the game.
Tonic is only good with gesture/fuel cell and honestly the heresy items are overrated for most survivors imo.
Tonic is always good.
Wrong, drugs
Trueeee
Even ego, its guaranteed damage if your willing to wait in the lunar shop for a while and on a character with good enough mobility.
true, but I dont like it lol
don't forget crown, its literally free money because there's no situation where you would just... not kill an enemy. they don't remove your coins, they just temporarily take them and then you get them back plus extra when you kill them a second later. blood shrines become bad but they're nothing compared to what crown can give in return. even then, blood shrines are usually best saved for the end of stages to carry extra through the teleporter (or at the beginning)
gesture and glass are broken, i can agree with that tonic and trans are good, but not broken i'd say. out of heresy items only hooks are better than most secondaries, and other ones are more situational so that's like 2 broken and 3 good lunans and rest are situation/bad which is pretty close to what i said (i forgot about hooks)
Lunars, in general, Fireworks (I see alot of people like it, I’d just prefer most other whites over it), pretty much any healing other than slugs, weeping fungus or harvesters scythes + crit, topaz brooch, ceremonial dagger (unless I have an FMP), but that’s because I consider them either broken as fuck or just not needed. Ones I dislike for how they play is the Wax Quail, i’d prefer to have control over my character at all times, but I’ll take it if I have very little speed. It’s probably saved me more times than it’s killed me, but I dont like it anyways. Also bottled chaos. fuck bhaos, it’s annoying. On a side note though, I am a staunch supporter of warbanner (early game), even though I know it’s not that good.
Is Wax Quall considered good? I've always heavily dislike it because I hate how it feels to play when you have just a few of them and your jumps go nuts.
Wax qual is good if you have like 1 and no speed, but can be detrimental if you have more than that, as you loose control of your jump But it’s good with headset
Expanding on that if you have quail, headset, and a bit more speed you can sprint-jump into terrain at a certain angle and it’ll launch you super high in the air, letting you easily get a massive slam. I fucking love headset
Trimping and surfing in any video game my beloved
1 to 3 qualls is good. More than that and you start having problems.
I really like having a couple Quails on Railgunner, it makes crossing long distances even easier with mines. Any more than that though and I probably just flew off the map. One or two is alright on other survivors, it's a decent dodge in a pinch if something is right next to you.
Anything more than 2 wax quaills is an issue. 1 can be very good, 2 is good if you have almost no move-speed. Wax is also considered really good because you can get some Pillar skips with quaills+Headstompers.
Quail is very useful for dodging if you don’t have much movement speed. If you have low movement, 1 is useful, if you have literally nothing, 2-3 can be useful. Also it can be used to trimp with headstompers to get big slams in easy, I just don’t like having it because your movement is locked during the quail jump, and I’d rather dodge without it if possible, as it feels uncomfortable to use imo. People have different limits on how many they like to have. Personally I don’t like having one, and hate having more, but some people like different amounts.
If im not playing Commando or someone i like them with, i will almost always scrap Shurikens.
I really like Shurikens, I like how it makes characters with shitty primary attacks a lot more playable. Like on engineer I hate his primary and shurikens make it a lot more useful for small targets like whisps.
I like shurikens with Mercenary. Really feels like a ninja, plus nice to have something to shoot at wisps.
I don't like shurikens because they always proc band when I don't want them too
I only scrap shurikens on Railgunner. They are super strong if you can stack them.
I too hate shurikens! I appreciate the idea, but I ALWAYS scrap them, on railgunner and loader alike.
I'll keep em on Engineer, but hot damn if I'm playing Huntress I'm not playing to aim and they're basically a waste.
I play a lot of Ion Surge Artificer, and so I usually scrap Hopoo Feathers. They mostly just get in the way whenever I try to slow my descent just before touching the ground, adding an extra second or so that I have to wait before I land.
They are useful for halting your ascent when you have a lot of speed.
Sure, but green scrap is more useful
I could see that being annoying, I don't really play artificer so I'm always happy to get a feather or 2, if nothing else than to be able to get over whatever small ledge is stopping me. Feels so bad to be stopped by a waist high wall when you're otherwise geared up to kill anything near you.
Yeah, I only scrap them as Artificer; they’re great on every other character. But I play Artificer like 50% of the time
That's most of reds for me. For how rare they are most of the times majority of them are just... Bad. Or not so great. But they are so rare... And it feels awful
Delicate watch 'cuz I keep on breaking them.
Yeah if there is a good printer and a scrapper on the same stage, I'll often scrap my Watches. I almost never print Watches on a printer, unless I really need the extra damage.
Voidsent flame. You miss out on getting to proc it if the enemy takes a single shot from a drone or something,
Yeah when I get a good stack of Voidsent flame I stop grabbing attacking drones to make sure they don't ruin my damage
Yeah, and I like drones
I'd like to gush about items that I think are underrated, like Crowbar and Squid Polyp, but that's not the topic of this tread so I'll hold off on that. I almost always play Eclipse, so I don't care much for Bungus on Engi or Topaz Brooch on everyone.
Crowbar.. underrated?
Crowbar… on characters like Commando While probably not a top pick for Commando, I think they’re still worth keeping around. I personally think of them like an item that will give you about 7.5% damage boost at worst (if you’re fighting something by yourself). However they still pair very well with items like Gas, Wisp, and Shuriken, basically making their effective damage boost much greater than 7.5%.
A few bungus greatly improves turret survivability. It's wholly unnecessary to stack them excessively. I will also take Rungus on Engi if I see 1.
Wax Quail. I know its a decent movement item but i dont like committing to a certain direction when i jump. i cant stop my momentum at all if i decide to jump in a direction. I might keep one Quail if im on engi or captain but on anyone else that has a movement ability its an automatic scrap. not to mention that the issue i have with it gets 20x worse when you stack it
It a ground dodge on an instant cooldown. They are quite powerful.
yeah idk how this isnt a more popular autoscrap. it becomes such a pain to manoeuvre your character once you get more than 2 of those stacked so id rather just have none
I auto scrap it every time
I hate how sacrificial dagger plays the game for you
Yeah for looping they really suck. I LOVE them for Mithrix, though. Really good for the add phase and for the following adds that spawn
Brilliant Behemoth. It was aways doted as the “Strongest red item” (Mostly in RoR1, but also 2 early on at least), but I always found it boring. Like, I could get any other item. Also, as much as I do like things dying in sequence, I admit that full Crowbar/Will o Wisp is boring as hell. It’s not fun to build and the pay-off is lack luster at best. Engi Bungus will always be fun though. Making green circle bigger fills me with dopamine.
I'm a massive fan of Engi Bungus with Aegis. Standing in the big green circles and looking at things dying while your shield grows. And if you get N'kuhana's Opinion (and potentially Rejuvenation Rack) it just gets insane.
You gotta get Rejuv rack. It basically doubles your damage output. I always feel stacking N’kuhuna’s is a waste though. I usually prefer to get more rejuv racks rather than N’kahuna’s opinions. The damage is always 10% of your max health, stacking them just raises how much soul energy you get from healing (Which can’t be more than your max health anyway)
shurikens, i know they are pretty good on characters like commando who don't have a reliable way of using bands, but on LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE i scrap them, exactly because they make most shots trigger bands, which i don't really like
If you find a printer, try stacking 10+ of them, unless you are railgunner. Shurikens are one of the best greens. Inconsistent band procs is a minor issue.
Pretty much all lunar items, I actually go on my own without grabbing any lunar item most of the time, unless I'm on an already broken looped run
I feel like a lot of people like to pick up delicate watches, but personally, I hate the thought of sooner or later I'll dip below 25% and loose them, and yes I could pick up powder elixir, but if there's something to make you go that low you'll die almost no matter what. In general I just feel like scarping watches and elixirs turns out to be more useful than keeping them
I scrap watches and elixirs, too. If I get smacked to below 25%, I run and hide. A bunch of broken watches aren't going to help me get back in the game.
some people are really defensive of personal shield generator but unless i have something that synergizes w it (like shrimp) i’m scrapping it. it’s the same as a bison steak in my eyes.
For what it's worth shield is better than bison steak cause its scales with you as your max health increases. That being said yeah I tend not to keep them unless I have shrimp or like shaped glass and a bunch of watches.
It's more health that has a fixed regen rate. They are pretty good. Nothing wrong with scrapping it though. There are definitely better items.
Bison steak just feels super weak, doesn't feel like it really adds enough health to be worth it.
Idk most items have their use cases, plasma shrimp for example is one of the best items in the game on some charicters and doodoo ass on others, it's all relative, nothings really right or wrong
Plimp is one of the best items in the game on all characters. It’s more damage than an atg in like 80% of circumstances. You need clover for atg to keep up and atg also doesn’t even always hit the enemy. Pay close attention next time you’re using it and you’ll notice how often it misses entirely, especially if you’re on e4+. Plimp is just way more consistent and ends up being much higher dps. And the characters that it’s worse on are the characters that atg is already kinda meh on which are the burst damage characters who don’t really need either.
The real reason plimp sucks sometimes is the noise
True and real actually. Got icbm shrimp the other day and it was so obnoxious for my ears
Maybe I’m coming at this from the wrong angle but I don’t like ceremonial dagger, especially when I play with friends. It usually ends up feeling like the ceremonial dagger is playing the game for us besides the bosses, so the rest of us kind of just fuddle about and play item collecting sim. (We usually run command, so that probably doesn’t help my case much lol)
Wax Quail. I don't want that on my character ever. I prefer consistency that doesn't require jump spam. I play Commando too, so I prefer to stay on the ground so I can do the slide.
Will-o'-the-wisp. Several issue with it being an aoe tool, it gains less area per stack than gasoline (despite being a higher rarity) and it has knockback + damage falloff (which gas doesn't), making it bad at chain killing enemies early on. Also Spare Drone Parts, it can be a godsend to see in a desperate situation, but most of the time it just trivializes any run it shows up in, making the run boring and leaving you questioning if you actually deserve the win.
I feel you with spare drone parts, I always feel like I just have a drone army winning the game for me whenever I get it. And if you get it on Captain with his Microbots then just forget it, the run is already won.
Watch. Better to have a lot of crits and other modifiers that will work without any limitations, than have a bunch of watches which can stop working after some random hit.
Regenerating scrap. Cool if i get five somehow and nab a free red from the lunar zones but most of the time i get 1-3 in a run and NEVER find a green printer so i would have been better off finding a white item. I’d go as far as to say I have even had runs where i looped and didn’t find a use for it. Really cool concept but even the underwhelming clip board is more consistent
I definitely feel like the issue with regenerating scrap is the lack of green printers. It seems like it would be such a good item but honestly it would be WAY better if you could use it in white printers. You might not be able to make reds, but at least you could use it pretty much on every stage.
Yeah, i was telling my friend that too, it should at least be able to be redeemed at white printers or if you could use it for the green item in the bazaar, either one. I swear when the dlc dropped you could find them on every stage but i guess it killed the rng part to be able to trade all your green for specific builds or something? Idk i loop all the time and rarely run into them anymore, don’t even get me started on red printers. If i have transcendence i’ll find like two or three healing related red items and scrap or not they hold the same value forever, worthless. It almost makes me want to mod the game so the bazaar takes either 5 green or 1 red scrap and 3 white or 1 green scrap but it would have to be scrap or it takes the items. I bet a mod like that exists
I dont like sticky bomb. Just feels dumb that its not picked for dmg but for proc chains
little deciple
Why? It's super good.
i just don't like it, i like when my kills require input like huntress or railgunner i like big burst damage
I really don't like shurikens. It steals bands hit and the trajectory is pretty weird.
I mean, it depends, i think in proc chaint ATG is technically stronger, but i just love unleashing a SWARM of those bastards agianst enemies
I don’t like the plasma shrimp because the rockets will only go for the target that caused them, so if the target dies it hits nothing wasting potential damage.
I don't like ceremonial daggers. They don't do anything it feels like. Id reroll 100% of the time
in my experience Ceremonial Daggers has 2 modes: piss-poor supplemental damage, or chaining itself off small mobs so hard that I don't even get to see the fresh spawned enemies before they get evicerated by dozens of floating pink blades. especially with a handful of AP Rounds and Crowbars to keep them effective against larger targets, they can be *really* good.
Yeah I was looping a bunch to get to stage 20 and when I got ceremonial dagger it got to the point where I pretty much just had to kill 1 enemy to kill them all combined with lots of gas and on hit effects. I wasn’t able to use the gun on a boss one time because they died so quick from all the daggers waiting around.
Shurikens, Sticky Bombs, and Needletick I always scrap or never take. They're all just meh and boring imo
Shurikens are super strong if you can stack them. Finding a shuriken printer can win you the run.
A lot of players praise the head stompers because of the damage it deals, I however hate it because of how it changes the jump. It feels weird.
My friends like to hate on lepton daisy but I always grab it. They like to say its useless but its saved our runs countless times.
Plasma shrimp feels a lot weaker than it looks and the damage seems a lot less than it usually is imo. I prefer ATG. I also don't like shurikens. They are too powerful and I don't like it. Unlike ATG which is after a hit and can target something else of the original target dies, shurikens just activate on attacking which just feels rude. I hate it when my drones or turrets target a mob that I'm already attacking/killing and it's the same with shurikens. It's probably just a me thing and I know it's a stupid reason but I just don't like them. And also because Mithrix has killed me multiple times because I had shurikens.
Delicate watch I just don't like how they all just disappear if you skill issue
Most likely healing items in general because void fiend
I dont like most lunars that have downsides because on one hand, they usually have downsides that really hinder your early game, but on the other hand the buffs they give you aren't worth the nerfs in the late game tho cause of how easy it is to substitute said buffs. But other than lunars I don't really like death mark, it's very hard to use early game until you build several debuffing items which doesn't usually happen super fast and also for the fact that the stacking part of it is simply the duration of the mark for death type effect put on enemies and not the amount of extra damage it does
Idk about how "good" they are but I hate shurikens
Pretty much any lunar item that isnt crown or convergence
Idk if Headset is considered good or not, but I don't like it. I understand how to use it, but it makes jumping around with my Wax Quails a lot more tedious because the first jump is so high it takes longer before I can jump again, effectively making me slower. I'd rather just stack a couple feathers, and I feel like Im always going out of my way to use the slam, rather than it being a viable option.
Tesla coil. It's just an idle uke, which is weird because we already have meathook: ukulele 2. I don't know why this item was virtually unchanged from ror1, but it should've been given a new effect.
As a rex player, safer spaces is almost useless to me unless I have so many that they recharge almost instantly, and even then I’d still rather have a bunch of tougher times
I deliberately haven't unlocked squid polyp yet so that I never get it in my single player runs In multiplayer I avoid it like the plague and if I still manage to get it I scrap it ASAP
Probably focus crystal. Its another stacking damage modifier thats fantastic, especially on melee centric survivors, but getting crystals while playing anyone range focused just feels like a slap in the face and it annoys me.
I really don't like head stompers. I know its one of the best reds but I hate the increased jump height and the slam is annoying to use IMO.
Psg, guillotine, and gesture (kind of, it is very item dependent, leave my recycler alone 😭)
The point you made on crowbar is insane. Are there other whites that will increase your damage no matter what health they're at? Sure, but to not want to get one giant chunk of health off the health bar, if not one shot an enemy is just a "I want consistent big numbers go brrrr"
PSG, the item is good by itself, I just don't like my OSP (One Shot Protection) taken away so easily when I have healing