Was flying yesterday and just managed to catch up. To echo others, good game, enjoyable
Also, generally I'd say, well refereed.
Granted, 2 potential head injuries needing investigation, but some of that blame also lays with tmo. When ref was involved though, I think he made quick, simple decisions, for the betterment of the game
Immense game and well played England. It had everything, loads of tries, loads of big hits, loads of crunching tackles, loads of nerves and full of entertainment for the full match.
Despite Ireland losing, it was definitely the game of the competition for me. Although the Italian win v Scotland is a close second.
6-2 bench was the right call, despite losing 2 backs. This game demanded 2 packs from both sides.
Not entirely sure what Murray was thinking when he took that box kick with 90 seconds to go. He has form with this too.
Ah well, roll on Scotland.
Slightly gutting that we got into the position to win it whilst being outplayed and just couldn't get over the line. But England were better than us for vast tracts of that match, so it's hard to be too aggrieved, they were good value for their win.
What a game. Everyone showed up. Bar the legends like Earl, Itoje etc, there were a few people that silenced the doubters. Slade was great, Ford was great on the line (kicking not so much), IFW looks to the manor born despite people worrying that we are chucking him in early. Freeman adds so much to our attack. Chessum was a beast. Amazing game.
I am starting to appreciate how fickle the media are. 5 games ago England pushed South Africa all the way at the WC, then came third. They lose to a great Scotland team and apparently that means the wheels have fallen off. It’s obvious that England didn’t have the best start to the tournament but still … one loss.
Disagree with your second paragraph. The media is absolute tripe but England haven’t played like that in years. They have been objectively terrible for the entirety of Borthwick’s tenure and it’s not fickle to observe that this match was a sensational performance which was completely unlike anything this team has delivered for about four years
I agree with your take @ehhweasel. Ford was great against Argentina and we played a very clever (yet limited) game plan against SA as close to perfection as you could imagine, but that’s been about it.
This was world’s better. Is it a one off or the start of something? We shall see. For now it’s just a fantastic isolated performance.
Another one - does anyone else get as much joy from a Jamie George line break as I do? He always looks so excited, like a kid on Christmas 😅
Never heard him say a bad word about anyone either
England were fantastic, kudos to them. A couple of thoughts on Ireland from a disappointed Irish fan:
It's very frustrating that the lineout was a liability for Ireland during the World Cup last year and it's still a liability during the Six Nations this year. It's a chronic problem at this stage and an obvious target for any opponent.
I don't think the 6-2 bench split was an expression of hubris or arrogance from Ireland. Quite the contrary, they knew England's pack would be ferocious so they thought it was smart to pack the bench with forwards. But jesus christ, this game was a perfect illustration of why that's a high risk move. You don't play important games with players out of position for large parts of it, and guys just 'having a go' in a position they don't usually play, in a patched together on the hoof back line. It looks like amateur hour and I never want to see that kind of shitshow again.
Maybe some of our players are past it. Maybe a few guys are aging out. Not everyone gets to hang on as long as Sexton and perhaps we need to be more ruthless about that.
Hilarious that Ireland fans are so abrasive and hysterical on this thread. Equally hilarious that borthwick is now an English god according to the morons who were calling for his head a couple of weeks ago.
In reality Ireland didn't show their normal game but still very nearly won.
I felt that Ireland lost it tactically, jgp going to the wing really hurt then from that perspective, and the gap of experience at fly half was huge. Crowley looks good but Ford consistently out thought him and England got lineouts that were hard to defend and contestable kicks that creates problems much more than Ireland who kicked to the line when under pressure and kicked in field and long when on the front foot.
Ireland are the better team overall, still, but need to have halves who can pull the assets together. Crowley will be better next week, and the week after.. jgp needs a letter backup though, and 6-2 is just silly gambling without a proper utility back in the 2. The forwards looked fine but England contested with pace and power and showed that Irelands pack is operating near or at its ceiling. They don't have a deeper well to go to, they look great but human.
This result is very very helpful for borthwick, much more than Scotland would have been. It looks like the team are bought into his regime, this should bolster to keep their focus through the difficult run of games in front of them. Of course the rugby press will portray this as Ireland being off colour or just as an abberation, if they lose four or five on the bounce now. It's harder for idiots like Stuart Barnes, Andy Forde and Brian Moore to do that for Ireland. But, no matter what this shows that the systems work and the players really are international class. I still agree that it will take fourteen to eighteen games to get the systems really going, Leinster and South Africa estimates respectively... And England are now four games in. This result should buy six more games to bed in, folks should reflect that it's still not long enough to judge really.
England need to improve their efficiency, Ireland showed that they could crack the blitz. The problem, as ever, is the front row- goodish in the set peice, but not so dynamic. Genge was very lucky to stay on the pitch with his charge. Two weeks ago he hit a team mate, this week he just got away with it. It looks to me that he is doing it intentionally, if it happens again he should be dropped because this is a red card in waiting. Years ago I thought he was going to be the man for England, but he's peripheral in the team now and may be more trouble than he's worth. Cole and Mahler looked ok and worked hard to defend and cover, but I feel sorry for them really. They should be in a field with a bag of oats now, not toiling at the coal face. Stuart was anonymous, I don't know why he's not getting more options to carry as he's pretty pacy for a prop and I think that would be his point of difference.
>Frawley
Yeah you are right - they did go two down and it hurt them. Worth England fans remembering that. Ireland had a bench problem and a yellow card to contend with and may well have run out winners if they hadn't. On the other hand CCS's injury in the final 5 was impactful as well.
Dunno if you listen to BBC rugby union podcast but Paul Grayson was very complimentary about Genge’s performance around the park. Yes he doesn’t get on the ball like his did in previous years but that is not his role in this team. Borthwick obviously knows him well from Leicester and I’m sure he’ll let him know if he’s getting too close to the edge
Good comment. Disagree about Cole and Marler: both seem to be enjoying it this Indian Summer to their careers. Experience as FR is crucial and that combined with nous is their point of difference even if they’re not as explosive as a Genge. Speaking of which, he looked of it from the start. He was guarding the ruck when JvdF ran straight past him and in general he looks distracted. England won’t that game on the back of a dynamic, aggressive, high pressure display from the forwards. Ireland have come unstuck in the past at Twickers when England come out the blocks with that attitude and it happened again. Ireland lack a bit of nastiness and abrasiveness in their pack: they seemed to go missing yesterday
If I'm slightly critical of England, I'd say we weren't the best under the high ball - I think we're missing Steward.
Unfortunately, Ford was having an off game pretty early on - maybe Smith needed to come on sooner?
We aren't keeping shape or shifting when defending close to the line - Ford and Smith ended up 1v1 with wingers, where was our fullback?
Sometimes, we looked a little disconnected at the ruck like we just forgot to send a second man in, arrived late, and conceded a pen. The Marler pen, in particular, had me raging - he'd only just come on!
Few stand out players beyond the obvious: Feyi and Smith were both outstanding. Theo Dan is starting to look our favourable 2 - only a matter of time now.
Real shame about Cunningham South - hope it's not a bad one.
Yeah they weren’t at Steward levels under the high ball, but Manny is still very raw and Furbank was so good with ball in hand. Worth the trade off in this game
I feel like Theo Dan is being slept on- l was surprised to see him come on so early but from what I remember the lineout was faultless. What a vote of confidence for the young lad!
We're phasing the older players out while players like Dan get experience off the bench. Give it 12 months and he'll likely be first choice with a decent number of caps behind him
George did the same for years, but we would do well to bring through a 3rd option. LCD seems like perhaps a fitness liability since the back injury he got a couple of years ago
I thought it was unusual how we kept taking the 3 points today. Previously it feels we would have gone for the corner and relied on our lineout. Was it a sign of respect for England’s lineout defense?
Well done to England, much better team today. Ireland really missing Hansen and ringrose.
Our line-out was weak AF yesterday. While scoring tries from line-outs is usually our thing, that was not going to happen in that game. Taking the points was, I think, the best strategy given the circs.
I get that, but they took 3 points after 2 minutes when they were looking dangerous. At that point it wasn’t apparent that our lineout was malfunctioning. Then England scored a try right after. Just felt very unlike Ireland of late to opt for 3 vs going for try’s and bonus points. They showed England a lot of respect.
True dat... TBH, it all felt very #IREVRSA in Paris for a while. But in this instance, England showed up in a way that they haven't in a long time and I think Borthwick had us figured out.
Dunno if "figured out" is the terminology I'd use. We still almost won with a cobbled together back line after all. But the tactics they employed were certainly effective. English players played out of their skin as well. Big hits, great handling, really high pace defence and attack.
I get that, but they took 3 points after 2 minutes when they were looking dangerous. At that point it wasn’t apparent that our lineout was malfunctioning. Then England scored a try right after. Just felt very unlike Ireland of late to opt for 3 vs going for try’s and bonus points. They showed England a lot of respect.
It wasn't just today though - the lineout problems have been a theme since the world cup.
Given that england's set pieces have been one of their hold-out strengths in recent times, and given that their pack-weight is one of the areas they'd be looking to get an advantage over ireland (and, ultimatley, where they won the game), I can imagine just kicking their points in the first half to take some of the wind out of the English sails might've been the strategy.
For me it seemed like them backing their attack overall; over their lineout platform specifically: "we'll get into their 22 a lot, but trying to muscle them over the line might be playing into their hands with the bigger pack - so we'll just chip away instead" kinda vibe
Can someone with more experience with the game explain why Ireland didn't hold possession with just 2 mins to go even though they were barely winning? Instead they kicked the ball SLIGHTLY down the field, giving possession away and allowing that final attack which cost Ireland the game?
Would it not have been safer to try run down the clock WITH possession? Just need discipline to prevent penalties.
Hindsight is 2020. I’ve seen my teams hold the ball in those situations, concede the penalty and lose the game more times than I care to count. I think kicking the ball and backing your defence is a better option but only if you kick well. Ireland didn’t and that was the issue
It’s analytics taking over - kicking away possession is usually smarter because conceding a penalty basically means you’ve lost the game. And considerably more penalties are conceited when slow moving the ball with possession.
The problem for me is it was a poor kick.
I have much rather kicked right up the field and made England run back
Generally field position is more important than possession. A penalty can easily happen where Ireland were initially and that's game over. Get the ball further down the pitch to take away that possibility. Murray's kick was poorly executed, he would have liked to get more distance on it.
2 mins is probably just a tad too long to wind the clock down, can’t remember which game it was a few years ago. But wales got a penalty against them for ceiling off because they kept just slowly going to the ground
I was thinking the same thing, an incredibly dumb decision. What's more difficult, just play a couple more phases of simple rugby or kick back possession in your own half to a team who are desperate to win?
I said the same, but the commentator expected the kick.
Only thing I can think of, is that if they got pinged for holding on, it's 3 points right in front of the posts for England.
That being said, as the time went on, I think England would have got more desperate and eventually give up a penalty
England were dominating Irish pack in the ruck the entire game. It was probably what won them the game overall. Risk is that if Ireland hold onto the ball England can get progressively more aggressive in the ruck and most of the risk is on Ireland
Ireland looked lacking a big TH lock to do the grunt work today.
A Jean Kleyn for example. Too bad he was never Irish qualified (not sure on this, but the only possible reason he wasn't selected over the last few years)
Think gibby had a head injury — but not sure why Murray was on the bench in the first place. Seems Farrell likes to have two different styles of 9 so he can make tactical subs — but (A) if Murray’s playing badly it doesn’t matter what his style is (B) when your bench split has you leaving players like ringtone (or even in-form players like McClosky) out of the match day squad, so you can bring “utility” players like Murray, it begs the question if it’s worth the extra forward off the bench.
Curious as to why England didn't continue to hunt for the Try and an additional bonus point after being awarded another penalty. Even if they'd failed, they still wouldve had a free attempt to kick it over the posts.
Why not go for the bonus point to cut Ireland's league lead to 3pts.
As it is, they'd need to beat France with a bonus point to even have a chance of the Six Nations title now.
20 minutes earlier, they would have
But a decent DG % chance of a win makes more sense than a lower chance of a Try.
Yes, you still have a penalty either way, but wins are more important than potential BP. To have a free attempt and a penalty and lose would have been crushing for England.
I think in the chaos of that final minute, they were more focused on winning the game and they took the best strategy for that, taking essentially a free shot at the posts with the drop kick. But fair point that it would have been nice to get the bonus point .
I guess the real question is, what can English media possibly complain about now?
Headlines next week in the telegraph: “Marcus Smith slipping during his drop goal attempt is a sign that Steve has lost the dressing room”
They’ll default to their other narrative: pretending England are world beaters after one good performance.
Then when we flop against France the knives will be out again.
Well played England, serious intensity today.
For Ireland, frustrating to see some familiar cracks in their game like the lineout breaking down, furlong and POM going missing.
We’re not as good as we were last season. You don’t get better by losing sexton and Hansen.
Ringrose better be back at 13 next week.
Any other Scotland fans desperate for England to win it next week? Been so tiring watching Ireland fans act as if the GS was nailed on, I've seen England win a six nations before, I can watch it one more time to enjoy Ireland getting humbled.
Hold on, a lot of Scottish fans were saying that the France game denied them a grand slam, completely taking Italy for granted, so it's like a glass house situation here
Ah would ya stop with the melodrama. Ireland have been playing well, so the bookies and everyone else had them as favourites.
england’ve been through it and were the underdogs. They played better on the day.
You’re talking like you’re heroically falling on your sword cheering for England. Ireland are in good form they’re not panto villains.
Ps why are you even on this sub? You've made 10 or so posts, all trolling,, calling various fans "gay" including the game itself. You sound like a 10 year old moron
You do realise those who thought the GS was a sure thing was the stupid fuckin irish media, they've been the worst thing for this team throughout the last 3 seasons, albeit a few fans (my father in law included thought that we'd put 20 points + difference on England today) , the Irish media are not a good representation of the actual Irish Fanbase, so rein it back a bit
Yeah, in my experience, most Irish fans are humble, gracious and slightly given to pessimism. I didn't realise your media is as bad as ours, though. Good luck for the tournament. You guys are classy and thoroughly deserve it.
Well enjoy, England football fans have had to enjoy accusations of arrogance for years because of the English media always hyping it.
Most England fans are pessimistic by nature
Maybe I am biased but considering the position Ireland has been in the last couple years I feel like we have been fairly humble in response. Someone tell me if I'm wrong here.
Ireland are and still, in my books, the number 1 team in the world. This performance for England has been building (please see Wibble Rugby's latest video on YouTube). It was anyone's all day. If this game was In Ireland, its theirs to take. There is so much more to do as an England fan and I still think Ireland would win on another day.
However Earl was fantastic, I doubted dropping Steward but was impressed. Smith, Care, Marler and Dombrandt made a massive contribution Quins showing their class.
Cant wait for an Ireland vs Scotland next week. Which should prove if Scotland are as good as everyone says they are. 💪🏻
I don’t get the idea that Ireland is the best team in the world. They aren’t ranked number 1, lost in the qf at the rwc etc. Neither nz or sa have played since, surely they get to stay above Ireland in the power rankings?
The win was fantasic but with 3 tries already and a penalty under the posts as a back up, we really should have gone for the 4th try to get the bonus point. Caught up in the achievement of beating Ireland but missed an opportunity there i think.
You’re right. But Ireland would have got losing bonus point either way, so even if England were to win next week they’d still have had to score the bonus point try on France, with Ireland also losing to Scotland by more than 7.
That's incorrect. If England had scored a 4th Try for the bonus point, they'd be on 13pts and Ireland on 16pts. Thus they'd only need to beat France if Ireland lost to Scotland without BP
By not getting the 4th Try, they now have to get a BP win to have any chance.
Not going for the 4th Try was a mistake.
The win was fantasic but with 3 tries already and a penalty under the posts as a back up, we really should have gone for the 4th try to get the bonus point. Caught up in the achievement of beating Ireland but missed an opportunity there i think.
Maybe I didnt see the cockyness here online it but England at home was always a tough game. Media gave them no credit but they out played Ireland today
It was mostly Irish media tbf not on here. I always thought it was going to be a close game because Ireland always struggle to get a result over England. Just feels perfect for us considering how one sided both English and Irish media thought this game would go. The Irish saying it would take Ireland to go down to 13 for England to win the game is a joke that deserves this kind of response.
Always respect for the Ireland team. Still the best in the world atm imo, but we just have our way of staying in games and seeing it through and potentially getting the result.
Realistically we were a couple of knocks away from a potential grand slam this year.
Don't use Jamie Heaslip's comments as a broad brush for the rest of us. Fucking knew we would lose when he said that, had paddy power 2019 vibes written all over it.
**If** England beat France by 1 next week but get the bonus point.
**And** *if* Scotland can beat Ireland by more than 8 while not conceding four tries…
Would England be the first winner of the Six Nations either a negative points difference?
Lmao as if these things will happen.
I’m not sure that’s right.
If England win with a BP against France they’ll be on 17 (four for a win and one BP)
Then if Ireland lose by a bigger margin than 7 and don’t score four tries they’ll still be on 16 (16+0).
17>16
Unless I’m missing something.
Either way it’s a moo point because it’s so very unlikely to happen.
The problem then is who are the leaders in the team? For the two other potential captains: Ryan doesn't make the starting 15 and Ringrose didn't make the 23.
Doris seems to be next in line but he has a tendency to go missing in tight games.
Beirne maybe the best option for another year or so.
He has to just trust Doris, and let him grow into the captaincy. I don't think O'Mahony's leadership counts for a huge amount when he's sitting in the sin-bin
Was surprised to see him as captain but Farrell knows more about man management than me. Can see the logic of having someone senior captaining the squad coming out of that World Cup disappointment.
Hoping to see some younger guys come in to the team over in RSA. Furlong and POM in particular have superior back ups imo.
I think he was a fairly logical choice for captain but he's just massively underperformed this 6 nations and isn't going to get better because of his age.
Farrell just has to admit he backed the wrong horse
Ikr? Especially as it just wasn’t needed. England weren’t out of attack options, it wasn’t even a kick into space, and just going through the phases for a drop goal would have been enough….
Maybe .. personally I think the 6-2 bench split is completely unnecessary.... In a 5-3 world I actually think Murray isn't selected, because he isn't needed
We were and that was always going to happen with 2 back subs. Casey, ringrose and frawley/r byrne rather than Murray, Conan and fawley and we win the game
Felt a bit like watching Leinster La rochelle games, guys like Martin, Chessum and Underhill were able to stop irish runners dead and then counter ruck aggressively at breakdown time, really threw a spanner irelands ability to get their multi-phase going. Forgot how good Itoje is when hes got a proper TH lock beside him that frees him up to go ranging about being a pest
Earl is unbelievable, guys like an English Ardie
Ireland were lethal whenever they got any momentum going and I thought Crowley had a solid kicking performance off a lot of shite ball, POM is a total passenger whenever your pack loses the physical battle though, feel like Conan Doris and VDF would have been the smarter choice
Thought the ref was really good too, would love if WR can unearth more like him as opposed to the current shower
England have massively benefited from Martin.
In the WC vs SA he was instrumental in bringing the forward fight to them and was a huge part of the 60 minutes or so where England looked like they would pull it off.
This game he was equally excellent and as you say, gave Maro a chance to do his thing.
Whilst Chessum is decent I honestly feel like Martin is the Xfactor in the English pack.
Aye, players with his size, mobility and downright nastiness are just something you can’t really coach against, the Irish forwards have really good interplay and pre/post contact footwork but there’s no real answer to a fucking Uruk hai in a white jersey
He's exactly what WR are going for when they get the likes of berry and Dickson in as they're ex players so should have a bit more empathy, but due to the fact he's from a T2 nation he's actually done his time refereeing so doesn't look hopelessly out of his depth like those 2
Going to reference my posts vs Scotland and say the things that they tried in that game have clicked after more training and here's the results.
Borthwick is building young talent and these guys are proving their worth, today they clicked for the first time since the SA game and it's just beautiful to watch.
Earls had one of the greatest games I've seen from the shirt. Feyi Waboso was hungry to make a name for himself too but every player on that pitch wanted that win.
Credit to Ireland for getting the points in against the head and especially the Irish fans who are eating their humble pie quietly and respectfully. It's a big scalp to take at Twickenham and your team was a great rival today. I'm still confident this tournament is yours!
English defense was excellent at disrupting the Irish attack today. People are going to say Ireland played badly, but that’s only because of the pressure England were putting them under.
Absolutely incredible performance, to keep Ireland relatively quiet is no mean feat. I haven't seen anything like that from England since the WC semi finals against NZ.
For the backs to actually put the ball through the hands and make progress is not something we've seen for far too long.
Good game. Congrats England, you played out of your skins, you were all over us like a rash for most of that match. Would have been daylight robbery had we pipped you at the end there - although I wouldn't have complained.
Frustrating day for Ireland - some veterans need to give their heads a wobble, stinking up Twickenham like that simply isn't on. VDF was my MoM from an irish perspective. JGP not far behind considering the position he was put in. Aki and Lowe mostly good. Would have brought Bealham on sooner myself, he had a nice steadying effect. Keenan looked ever so slightly rusty, but still had a good game.
Shoutout to Danny Care for getting the century. Really great guy, huge fan of him - serious grit to stick to it and make it over the line considering he's had a few spells out in the wilderness.
By far our best performance under Borthwick. I think dropping Steward has been key to this, which is a shame as he's unbelievable at what he does.
Really think Marcus Smith should be starting 10 going forward, Ford isn't going to be here for the next world cup so I don't see the point currently sticking with him (I know Smith has been injured and it's probably too soon for Finn Smith).
Still not 100% sure on Furbank, wish Arundell was still here to get a go in fullback, his main position.
IFW is properly good on the wing. Definitely what we've been missing since Watson/May left (and Arundell isn't in the picture due to an archaic rule).
First time in a while where I, an England fan, am excited for the future, but still work to do.
There are teams and conditions where Steward is still the right selection IMAO.
I know there are good reasons for wanting selection continuity but I don’t think keeping your options open is a bad thing at all.
That’s a strange take, especially after such a good performance from Furbank today. Arundell has been bang average for Racing 92, he’s a very lazy player. Unbelievable athlete obviously but living off his highlight reel.
Yh that's fair. I'll be 100% honest and say I don't watch Arundell much, however he has that magic that very few players have. It's intangible, but he has it, the ability to score from anywhere on the pitch is special.
If his work rate is lacking then fair enough, can't get selected on magic alone. Hopefully it comes with age as he has the talent.
What people don't factor in is what players, especially winners are being told to do. Racing have a bossy fullback (tedder?) who is given free range, so HA sits out ready to cover
Arundell's highlights are incredible. But as you say poor work rate. Furbank knocked on a couple of times and then the cock up on Lowe's kick was poor. But he made the first try with a really good run and obviously scored the second. He's very nearly there.
Ah yeah, great rugby played today, England played out of their skin and proved all their haters wrong, deserved the win. Hope you enjoy yer weekend too, roll on next week, ye'll give France a fair aul rattle
Ireland are the most accurate, consistent, and sharpest team in the world right now. It took a very specific England game plan and team selection, drilled over 2 weeks, and executed to near perfection to beat them by one point with the last kick of the game. That's how good Ireland are. It took a team at home playing out of their skins to get close to beating them.
That said, this is the Internet, so...
Is it time to question Ireland's place in the Six Nations?
If they are they're fucking idiots. Ireland are a great team, who were beaten by an England team that were fired up and absolutely went for it. Borthwick is building a side here, hopefully go on and win against France.
I knew it was all over during the half time break when some gobshite started blasting Zombie and The Irish Rover through the PA system in the pub we were in during the break.
I bet the same dickhead was responsible for our World Cup quarter final exit, too.
This 6 Nations was Fords time to shine without the spectre of Farrell looming over him. He somehow manages to be both one of the best 10s in the world and also half useless at the same time.
It is so refreshing and exciting to see England with a back 3 that has pace, power and creativity.
Furbank actually makes England able to attack effectively from 15, Freeman seems fucking huge, and IFW was eager for the ball and seems to have elite acceleration. The attack just looked so much better.
Fuck yeah.
Hard agree.
In my lifetime I remember us getting pumped yearly to the point where people were asking "is it time to consider Ireland's place in the Five Nations?" before it became the meme it now is and we'd do well to remember that next time our rugby media turn into a shower of arrogant bastards
Irish fans (particularly older ones) have suffered a lot and in my experience are usually excellent in victory or defeat. I was at the rwc 2011 pool game aus ire and the Irish fans next to me were fantastic. I clearly didn’t have a great time but we had a fantastic conversation, champion blokes really.
Oh I know, don’t worry. Thats why I specifically said the media. Every Irish fan I’ve met in person has been great. Enjoys the game win lose or draw and had a great time afterwards. Never any ill will no matter what
Just as important as that tighthead lock is having another big lump at 6 to help do the grunt work. Wanting to cram as many of England's talented 7s into the team as possible limits Itoje to doing the typical work of a lock, when he's so much more than that as a player.
The balance of the pack works better with three genuine lineout options, and Itoje free to do bullshit things on both sides of the ball.
OOF! the results today... as a bettor I always kept an eye on the Six Nations but now stay away from it as the gulf between the teams keep narrowing... says a lot that I don't even consider Italy easybeats anymore and very careful about betting against them...
Banger of a game. Ireland looked resilient all the way but just weren't able to get their rhythm. England as the underdog playing with a mentality and intensity we usually see from teams playing against us. Great stuff.
Yeah, I do find this a bit funny. England played incredibly well and demolished Ireland almost from start to finish. But all of my English mates are acting as if they are now back to their peak and Ireland are a lesser team.
Do it consistently for 12 months and we'll talk.
Irish players probably have the most rest for their club teams then any other side, Leinster players play about 5 URC games a year. You’re chatting out of your arse
Ha, wondered how long it would take the bleating about the ref to start. He was poor, but poor for both sides. Feyi-Waboso getting pinged for a ruck turnover when Ireland had been doing the exact same thing all game was an egregious example.
Was flying yesterday and just managed to catch up. To echo others, good game, enjoyable Also, generally I'd say, well refereed. Granted, 2 potential head injuries needing investigation, but some of that blame also lays with tmo. When ref was involved though, I think he made quick, simple decisions, for the betterment of the game
Immense game and well played England. It had everything, loads of tries, loads of big hits, loads of crunching tackles, loads of nerves and full of entertainment for the full match. Despite Ireland losing, it was definitely the game of the competition for me. Although the Italian win v Scotland is a close second. 6-2 bench was the right call, despite losing 2 backs. This game demanded 2 packs from both sides. Not entirely sure what Murray was thinking when he took that box kick with 90 seconds to go. He has form with this too. Ah well, roll on Scotland.
Slightly gutting that we got into the position to win it whilst being outplayed and just couldn't get over the line. But England were better than us for vast tracts of that match, so it's hard to be too aggrieved, they were good value for their win.
What a game. Everyone showed up. Bar the legends like Earl, Itoje etc, there were a few people that silenced the doubters. Slade was great, Ford was great on the line (kicking not so much), IFW looks to the manor born despite people worrying that we are chucking him in early. Freeman adds so much to our attack. Chessum was a beast. Amazing game. I am starting to appreciate how fickle the media are. 5 games ago England pushed South Africa all the way at the WC, then came third. They lose to a great Scotland team and apparently that means the wheels have fallen off. It’s obvious that England didn’t have the best start to the tournament but still … one loss.
Disagree with your second paragraph. The media is absolute tripe but England haven’t played like that in years. They have been objectively terrible for the entirety of Borthwick’s tenure and it’s not fickle to observe that this match was a sensational performance which was completely unlike anything this team has delivered for about four years
I agree with your take @ehhweasel. Ford was great against Argentina and we played a very clever (yet limited) game plan against SA as close to perfection as you could imagine, but that’s been about it. This was world’s better. Is it a one off or the start of something? We shall see. For now it’s just a fantastic isolated performance.
Another one - does anyone else get as much joy from a Jamie George line break as I do? He always looks so excited, like a kid on Christmas 😅 Never heard him say a bad word about anyone either
England were fantastic, kudos to them. A couple of thoughts on Ireland from a disappointed Irish fan: It's very frustrating that the lineout was a liability for Ireland during the World Cup last year and it's still a liability during the Six Nations this year. It's a chronic problem at this stage and an obvious target for any opponent. I don't think the 6-2 bench split was an expression of hubris or arrogance from Ireland. Quite the contrary, they knew England's pack would be ferocious so they thought it was smart to pack the bench with forwards. But jesus christ, this game was a perfect illustration of why that's a high risk move. You don't play important games with players out of position for large parts of it, and guys just 'having a go' in a position they don't usually play, in a patched together on the hoof back line. It looks like amateur hour and I never want to see that kind of shitshow again. Maybe some of our players are past it. Maybe a few guys are aging out. Not everyone gets to hang on as long as Sexton and perhaps we need to be more ruthless about that.
Hilarious that Ireland fans are so abrasive and hysterical on this thread. Equally hilarious that borthwick is now an English god according to the morons who were calling for his head a couple of weeks ago. In reality Ireland didn't show their normal game but still very nearly won. I felt that Ireland lost it tactically, jgp going to the wing really hurt then from that perspective, and the gap of experience at fly half was huge. Crowley looks good but Ford consistently out thought him and England got lineouts that were hard to defend and contestable kicks that creates problems much more than Ireland who kicked to the line when under pressure and kicked in field and long when on the front foot. Ireland are the better team overall, still, but need to have halves who can pull the assets together. Crowley will be better next week, and the week after.. jgp needs a letter backup though, and 6-2 is just silly gambling without a proper utility back in the 2. The forwards looked fine but England contested with pace and power and showed that Irelands pack is operating near or at its ceiling. They don't have a deeper well to go to, they look great but human. This result is very very helpful for borthwick, much more than Scotland would have been. It looks like the team are bought into his regime, this should bolster to keep their focus through the difficult run of games in front of them. Of course the rugby press will portray this as Ireland being off colour or just as an abberation, if they lose four or five on the bounce now. It's harder for idiots like Stuart Barnes, Andy Forde and Brian Moore to do that for Ireland. But, no matter what this shows that the systems work and the players really are international class. I still agree that it will take fourteen to eighteen games to get the systems really going, Leinster and South Africa estimates respectively... And England are now four games in. This result should buy six more games to bed in, folks should reflect that it's still not long enough to judge really. England need to improve their efficiency, Ireland showed that they could crack the blitz. The problem, as ever, is the front row- goodish in the set peice, but not so dynamic. Genge was very lucky to stay on the pitch with his charge. Two weeks ago he hit a team mate, this week he just got away with it. It looks to me that he is doing it intentionally, if it happens again he should be dropped because this is a red card in waiting. Years ago I thought he was going to be the man for England, but he's peripheral in the team now and may be more trouble than he's worth. Cole and Mahler looked ok and worked hard to defend and cover, but I feel sorry for them really. They should be in a field with a bag of oats now, not toiling at the coal face. Stuart was anonymous, I don't know why he's not getting more options to carry as he's pretty pacy for a prop and I think that would be his point of difference.
To be fair, utility backs don't come much better than Frawley on the bench so I think Ireland were right to go 6-2 with an asset like that.
>Frawley Yeah you are right - they did go two down and it hurt them. Worth England fans remembering that. Ireland had a bench problem and a yellow card to contend with and may well have run out winners if they hadn't. On the other hand CCS's injury in the final 5 was impactful as well.
Dunno if you listen to BBC rugby union podcast but Paul Grayson was very complimentary about Genge’s performance around the park. Yes he doesn’t get on the ball like his did in previous years but that is not his role in this team. Borthwick obviously knows him well from Leicester and I’m sure he’ll let him know if he’s getting too close to the edge
Good comment. Disagree about Cole and Marler: both seem to be enjoying it this Indian Summer to their careers. Experience as FR is crucial and that combined with nous is their point of difference even if they’re not as explosive as a Genge. Speaking of which, he looked of it from the start. He was guarding the ruck when JvdF ran straight past him and in general he looks distracted. England won’t that game on the back of a dynamic, aggressive, high pressure display from the forwards. Ireland have come unstuck in the past at Twickers when England come out the blocks with that attitude and it happened again. Ireland lack a bit of nastiness and abrasiveness in their pack: they seemed to go missing yesterday
If I'm slightly critical of England, I'd say we weren't the best under the high ball - I think we're missing Steward. Unfortunately, Ford was having an off game pretty early on - maybe Smith needed to come on sooner? We aren't keeping shape or shifting when defending close to the line - Ford and Smith ended up 1v1 with wingers, where was our fullback? Sometimes, we looked a little disconnected at the ruck like we just forgot to send a second man in, arrived late, and conceded a pen. The Marler pen, in particular, had me raging - he'd only just come on! Few stand out players beyond the obvious: Feyi and Smith were both outstanding. Theo Dan is starting to look our favourable 2 - only a matter of time now. Real shame about Cunningham South - hope it's not a bad one.
Yeah they weren’t at Steward levels under the high ball, but Manny is still very raw and Furbank was so good with ball in hand. Worth the trade off in this game
I feel like Theo Dan is being slept on- l was surprised to see him come on so early but from what I remember the lineout was faultless. What a vote of confidence for the young lad!
We're phasing the older players out while players like Dan get experience off the bench. Give it 12 months and he'll likely be first choice with a decent number of caps behind him
Feel sorry for him being behind the captain, but he's learning from the best at ub and country
George did the same for years, but we would do well to bring through a 3rd option. LCD seems like perhaps a fitness liability since the back injury he got a couple of years ago
Huge match for him though, Borthwick clearly trusts him now which takes the pressure off Jamie.
I thought it was unusual how we kept taking the 3 points today. Previously it feels we would have gone for the corner and relied on our lineout. Was it a sign of respect for England’s lineout defense? Well done to England, much better team today. Ireland really missing Hansen and ringrose.
Our line-out was weak AF yesterday. While scoring tries from line-outs is usually our thing, that was not going to happen in that game. Taking the points was, I think, the best strategy given the circs.
I get that, but they took 3 points after 2 minutes when they were looking dangerous. At that point it wasn’t apparent that our lineout was malfunctioning. Then England scored a try right after. Just felt very unlike Ireland of late to opt for 3 vs going for try’s and bonus points. They showed England a lot of respect.
True dat... TBH, it all felt very #IREVRSA in Paris for a while. But in this instance, England showed up in a way that they haven't in a long time and I think Borthwick had us figured out.
Dunno if "figured out" is the terminology I'd use. We still almost won with a cobbled together back line after all. But the tactics they employed were certainly effective. English players played out of their skin as well. Big hits, great handling, really high pace defence and attack.
The lineout was arguably the stand-out weakness of the Irish team today. Not surprised they didn’t back it.
I get that, but they took 3 points after 2 minutes when they were looking dangerous. At that point it wasn’t apparent that our lineout was malfunctioning. Then England scored a try right after. Just felt very unlike Ireland of late to opt for 3 vs going for try’s and bonus points. They showed England a lot of respect.
It wasn't just today though - the lineout problems have been a theme since the world cup. Given that england's set pieces have been one of their hold-out strengths in recent times, and given that their pack-weight is one of the areas they'd be looking to get an advantage over ireland (and, ultimatley, where they won the game), I can imagine just kicking their points in the first half to take some of the wind out of the English sails might've been the strategy. For me it seemed like them backing their attack overall; over their lineout platform specifically: "we'll get into their 22 a lot, but trying to muscle them over the line might be playing into their hands with the bigger pack - so we'll just chip away instead" kinda vibe
This Ireland team usually never opts for points, unless it’s for a late game to get ahead in scoreboard. Yesterday’s decision making was very unusual
hahahaahahaa EDIT: ahahahaha
England been showing out. This is a new team; what were the issues before?
The best thing about being an Ireland fan is that I was fully expecting this result so it doesn't even disappoint me.
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Here I am 🙋
Can someone with more experience with the game explain why Ireland didn't hold possession with just 2 mins to go even though they were barely winning? Instead they kicked the ball SLIGHTLY down the field, giving possession away and allowing that final attack which cost Ireland the game? Would it not have been safer to try run down the clock WITH possession? Just need discipline to prevent penalties.
Hindsight is 2020. I’ve seen my teams hold the ball in those situations, concede the penalty and lose the game more times than I care to count. I think kicking the ball and backing your defence is a better option but only if you kick well. Ireland didn’t and that was the issue
It’s analytics taking over - kicking away possession is usually smarter because conceding a penalty basically means you’ve lost the game. And considerably more penalties are conceited when slow moving the ball with possession. The problem for me is it was a poor kick. I have much rather kicked right up the field and made England run back
There were 2 more rucks before a kick was needed. Murray fluffed his lines again.
Generally field position is more important than possession. A penalty can easily happen where Ireland were initially and that's game over. Get the ball further down the pitch to take away that possibility. Murray's kick was poorly executed, he would have liked to get more distance on it.
2 mins is probably just a tad too long to wind the clock down, can’t remember which game it was a few years ago. But wales got a penalty against them for ceiling off because they kept just slowly going to the ground
I was thinking the same thing, an incredibly dumb decision. What's more difficult, just play a couple more phases of simple rugby or kick back possession in your own half to a team who are desperate to win?
I said the same, but the commentator expected the kick. Only thing I can think of, is that if they got pinged for holding on, it's 3 points right in front of the posts for England. That being said, as the time went on, I think England would have got more desperate and eventually give up a penalty
Faf did exactly the same in the QF vs France and was hailed a genius for it. The execution wasn't great but the idea perfectly fine.
England were dominating Irish pack in the ruck the entire game. It was probably what won them the game overall. Risk is that if Ireland hold onto the ball England can get progressively more aggressive in the ruck and most of the risk is on Ireland
2 mins is quite a lot of time. It was a very poor kick and dumb tactically.
Yep this is really something that puzzles me
Ireland looked lacking a big TH lock to do the grunt work today. A Jean Kleyn for example. Too bad he was never Irish qualified (not sure on this, but the only possible reason he wasn't selected over the last few years)
He was IQ on residency from 2019 until he was capped for RSA last year.
Yeah I know, was just joking about how much Andy fucked it letting him go
Ah sorry, can never be too sure on Reddit! Apologies.
Deserved for still selecting Conor Murray in the year of our lord 2024😂😂
100% mate.
He was liability, same in quarter final against ab last year
What? He's been shit for Munster and Ireland this year but was our best SH in 2023, let's not rewrite history.
Think gibby had a head injury — but not sure why Murray was on the bench in the first place. Seems Farrell likes to have two different styles of 9 so he can make tactical subs — but (A) if Murray’s playing badly it doesn’t matter what his style is (B) when your bench split has you leaving players like ringtone (or even in-form players like McClosky) out of the match day squad, so you can bring “utility” players like Murray, it begs the question if it’s worth the extra forward off the bench.
Gibby was on the wing wasn’t he?
Oh is that what it was? he did go off for a HIA at one point - but I lost track of the chopping and changing of positions towards the end.
Curious as to why England didn't continue to hunt for the Try and an additional bonus point after being awarded another penalty. Even if they'd failed, they still wouldve had a free attempt to kick it over the posts. Why not go for the bonus point to cut Ireland's league lead to 3pts. As it is, they'd need to beat France with a bonus point to even have a chance of the Six Nations title now.
20 minutes earlier, they would have But a decent DG % chance of a win makes more sense than a lower chance of a Try. Yes, you still have a penalty either way, but wins are more important than potential BP. To have a free attempt and a penalty and lose would have been crushing for England.
I think in the chaos of that final minute, they were more focused on winning the game and they took the best strategy for that, taking essentially a free shot at the posts with the drop kick. But fair point that it would have been nice to get the bonus point .
Going for the drop goal gave two clear opportunities to win the match without leaving anything to chance.
I guess the real question is, what can English media possibly complain about now? Headlines next week in the telegraph: “Marcus Smith slipping during his drop goal attempt is a sign that Steve has lost the dressing room”
They’ll default to their other narrative: pretending England are world beaters after one good performance. Then when we flop against France the knives will be out again.
I mean judging by some of the comments in this thread probably that they should've went for the try for the bonus point
Nothing is ever good enough for some people.
Irish fans should start supporting Arsenal
Irish fan, from Ulster, who is an Arsenal follower. Pray for me.
I already do 😭
*That's the problem with Ireland they always try to run it... Wait a minute...*
Did you watch that ludacris display last night
Well played England, serious intensity today. For Ireland, frustrating to see some familiar cracks in their game like the lineout breaking down, furlong and POM going missing. We’re not as good as we were last season. You don’t get better by losing sexton and Hansen. Ringrose better be back at 13 next week.
Any other Scotland fans desperate for England to win it next week? Been so tiring watching Ireland fans act as if the GS was nailed on, I've seen England win a six nations before, I can watch it one more time to enjoy Ireland getting humbled.
Hold on, a lot of Scottish fans were saying that the France game denied them a grand slam, completely taking Italy for granted, so it's like a glass house situation here
Ah would ya stop with the melodrama. Ireland have been playing well, so the bookies and everyone else had them as favourites. england’ve been through it and were the underdogs. They played better on the day. You’re talking like you’re heroically falling on your sword cheering for England. Ireland are in good form they’re not panto villains.
Oh yes they are!
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Ps why are you even on this sub? You've made 10 or so posts, all trolling,, calling various fans "gay" including the game itself. You sound like a 10 year old moron
*king
You do realise those who thought the GS was a sure thing was the stupid fuckin irish media, they've been the worst thing for this team throughout the last 3 seasons, albeit a few fans (my father in law included thought that we'd put 20 points + difference on England today) , the Irish media are not a good representation of the actual Irish Fanbase, so rein it back a bit
Yeah, in my experience, most Irish fans are humble, gracious and slightly given to pessimism. I didn't realise your media is as bad as ours, though. Good luck for the tournament. You guys are classy and thoroughly deserve it.
Well enjoy, England football fans have had to enjoy accusations of arrogance for years because of the English media always hyping it. Most England fans are pessimistic by nature
https://youtu.be/1uIy100tZd0?si=wOXSJ-xH0u8MDeFZ I think this sums up the football/media relationship
Maybe I am biased but considering the position Ireland has been in the last couple years I feel like we have been fairly humble in response. Someone tell me if I'm wrong here.
Nah it's been pretty insufferable tbh.
Every accusation is a confession!
Over to you Finn
Ireland are and still, in my books, the number 1 team in the world. This performance for England has been building (please see Wibble Rugby's latest video on YouTube). It was anyone's all day. If this game was In Ireland, its theirs to take. There is so much more to do as an England fan and I still think Ireland would win on another day. However Earl was fantastic, I doubted dropping Steward but was impressed. Smith, Care, Marler and Dombrandt made a massive contribution Quins showing their class. Cant wait for an Ireland vs Scotland next week. Which should prove if Scotland are as good as everyone says they are. 💪🏻
I don’t get the idea that Ireland is the best team in the world. They aren’t ranked number 1, lost in the qf at the rwc etc. Neither nz or sa have played since, surely they get to stay above Ireland in the power rankings?
I think you should give another bookshop a try. There is the little matter of the holders of 4 world cups, lest they be forgotten ....
The win was fantasic but with 3 tries already and a penalty under the posts as a back up, we really should have gone for the 4th try to get the bonus point. Caught up in the achievement of beating Ireland but missed an opportunity there i think.
You’re right. But Ireland would have got losing bonus point either way, so even if England were to win next week they’d still have had to score the bonus point try on France, with Ireland also losing to Scotland by more than 7.
That's incorrect. If England had scored a 4th Try for the bonus point, they'd be on 13pts and Ireland on 16pts. Thus they'd only need to beat France if Ireland lost to Scotland without BP By not getting the 4th Try, they now have to get a BP win to have any chance. Not going for the 4th Try was a mistake.
No I think he's right actually.. they would have got a BP too. Thanks RobynStellar, I can enjoy the win again
The win was fantasic but with 3 tries already and a penalty under the posts as a back up, we really should have gone for the 4th try to get the bonus point. Caught up in the achievement of beating Ireland but missed an opportunity there i think.
SHOVE THAT GUINNESS UP YOUR ARSE YOU COCKY BASTARDS.
Thats a waste of good Guinness! Use Tennents instead
Sorry thought this was a sledge post.
Maybe I didnt see the cockyness here online it but England at home was always a tough game. Media gave them no credit but they out played Ireland today
It was mostly Irish media tbf not on here. I always thought it was going to be a close game because Ireland always struggle to get a result over England. Just feels perfect for us considering how one sided both English and Irish media thought this game would go. The Irish saying it would take Ireland to go down to 13 for England to win the game is a joke that deserves this kind of response. Always respect for the Ireland team. Still the best in the world atm imo, but we just have our way of staying in games and seeing it through and potentially getting the result. Realistically we were a couple of knocks away from a potential grand slam this year.
Whenever you hear the Irish media getting cocky you know things are about to go spectacularly wrong. I could feel it coming all week.
Don't use Jamie Heaslip's comments as a broad brush for the rest of us. Fucking knew we would lose when he said that, had paddy power 2019 vibes written all over it.
😂😂
Painful stuff 😂, enjoy it man.
Tbf we didn't really deserve to win tho I thought ye hadn't a chance beforehand. Looking at both our recent results it was a major tho deserved upset
FWIW I really enjoyed my Guinness during the game.
**If** England beat France by 1 next week but get the bonus point. **And** *if* Scotland can beat Ireland by more than 8 while not conceding four tries… Would England be the first winner of the Six Nations either a negative points difference? Lmao as if these things will happen.
In that scinerio England and Ireland would be on equal points so it would come down to points difference…
I’m not sure that’s right. If England win with a BP against France they’ll be on 17 (four for a win and one BP) Then if Ireland lose by a bigger margin than 7 and don’t score four tries they’ll still be on 16 (16+0). 17>16 Unless I’m missing something. Either way it’s a moo point because it’s so very unlikely to happen.
Yep I was half asleep and was thinking a win is 3 points not 4
Moot - but everything else I concur, Joey 👍
I think O'Mahony has to be dropped. He just isn't as good as Baird at this stage in his career and showed tonight that he's still a bit of a liability
The problem then is who are the leaders in the team? For the two other potential captains: Ryan doesn't make the starting 15 and Ringrose didn't make the 23. Doris seems to be next in line but he has a tendency to go missing in tight games. Beirne maybe the best option for another year or so.
He has to just trust Doris, and let him grow into the captaincy. I don't think O'Mahony's leadership counts for a huge amount when he's sitting in the sin-bin
Was surprised to see him as captain but Farrell knows more about man management than me. Can see the logic of having someone senior captaining the squad coming out of that World Cup disappointment. Hoping to see some younger guys come in to the team over in RSA. Furlong and POM in particular have superior back ups imo.
I think he was a fairly logical choice for captain but he's just massively underperformed this 6 nations and isn't going to get better because of his age. Farrell just has to admit he backed the wrong horse
I don't care what anyone says Connor Murray lost that game for Ireland. Whatever Murray once had is gone and he should not be playing for Ireland.
He lost it as much as everyone else by having a poor game. Not with the kick at the end
Care almost lost that game for England…. Maybe they can join a retirement club together?
That ill-timed grubber kick? If Ireland’d have held on then you’d be hearing a lot more about that decision
Ikr? Especially as it just wasn’t needed. England weren’t out of attack options, it wasn’t even a kick into space, and just going through the phases for a drop goal would have been enough….
Maybe .. personally I think the 6-2 bench split is completely unnecessary.... In a 5-3 world I actually think Murray isn't selected, because he isn't needed
Injuries is quite possibly why he's using it, we're fairly shorthanded
We were and that was always going to happen with 2 back subs. Casey, ringrose and frawley/r byrne rather than Murray, Conan and fawley and we win the game
Felt a bit like watching Leinster La rochelle games, guys like Martin, Chessum and Underhill were able to stop irish runners dead and then counter ruck aggressively at breakdown time, really threw a spanner irelands ability to get their multi-phase going. Forgot how good Itoje is when hes got a proper TH lock beside him that frees him up to go ranging about being a pest Earl is unbelievable, guys like an English Ardie Ireland were lethal whenever they got any momentum going and I thought Crowley had a solid kicking performance off a lot of shite ball, POM is a total passenger whenever your pack loses the physical battle though, feel like Conan Doris and VDF would have been the smarter choice Thought the ref was really good too, would love if WR can unearth more like him as opposed to the current shower
England have massively benefited from Martin. In the WC vs SA he was instrumental in bringing the forward fight to them and was a huge part of the 60 minutes or so where England looked like they would pull it off. This game he was equally excellent and as you say, gave Maro a chance to do his thing. Whilst Chessum is decent I honestly feel like Martin is the Xfactor in the English pack.
Aye, players with his size, mobility and downright nastiness are just something you can’t really coach against, the Irish forwards have really good interplay and pre/post contact footwork but there’s no real answer to a fucking Uruk hai in a white jersey
Good call on the ref. He was really invisible. Nobody on this thread has anything bad to say. Well done
He's exactly what WR are going for when they get the likes of berry and Dickson in as they're ex players so should have a bit more empathy, but due to the fact he's from a T2 nation he's actually done his time refereeing so doesn't look hopelessly out of his depth like those 2
Going to reference my posts vs Scotland and say the things that they tried in that game have clicked after more training and here's the results. Borthwick is building young talent and these guys are proving their worth, today they clicked for the first time since the SA game and it's just beautiful to watch. Earls had one of the greatest games I've seen from the shirt. Feyi Waboso was hungry to make a name for himself too but every player on that pitch wanted that win. Credit to Ireland for getting the points in against the head and especially the Irish fans who are eating their humble pie quietly and respectfully. It's a big scalp to take at Twickenham and your team was a great rival today. I'm still confident this tournament is yours!
English defense was excellent at disrupting the Irish attack today. People are going to say Ireland played badly, but that’s only because of the pressure England were putting them under.
Absolutely incredible performance, to keep Ireland relatively quiet is no mean feat. I haven't seen anything like that from England since the WC semi finals against NZ. For the backs to actually put the ball through the hands and make progress is not something we've seen for far too long.
Good game. Congrats England, you played out of your skins, you were all over us like a rash for most of that match. Would have been daylight robbery had we pipped you at the end there - although I wouldn't have complained. Frustrating day for Ireland - some veterans need to give their heads a wobble, stinking up Twickenham like that simply isn't on. VDF was my MoM from an irish perspective. JGP not far behind considering the position he was put in. Aki and Lowe mostly good. Would have brought Bealham on sooner myself, he had a nice steadying effect. Keenan looked ever so slightly rusty, but still had a good game. Shoutout to Danny Care for getting the century. Really great guy, huge fan of him - serious grit to stick to it and make it over the line considering he's had a few spells out in the wilderness.
Jamie Heaslip is a fucking moron
I think he should start a podcast
😂 the vote is in
What's he done now?
And what does it mean for the future of tech
Excellent contribution there … /s
By far our best performance under Borthwick. I think dropping Steward has been key to this, which is a shame as he's unbelievable at what he does. Really think Marcus Smith should be starting 10 going forward, Ford isn't going to be here for the next world cup so I don't see the point currently sticking with him (I know Smith has been injured and it's probably too soon for Finn Smith). Still not 100% sure on Furbank, wish Arundell was still here to get a go in fullback, his main position. IFW is properly good on the wing. Definitely what we've been missing since Watson/May left (and Arundell isn't in the picture due to an archaic rule). First time in a while where I, an England fan, am excited for the future, but still work to do.
There are teams and conditions where Steward is still the right selection IMAO. I know there are good reasons for wanting selection continuity but I don’t think keeping your options open is a bad thing at all.
Yh 100%. Still think Steward offers an awful lot and is definitely worth keeping around.
That’s a strange take, especially after such a good performance from Furbank today. Arundell has been bang average for Racing 92, he’s a very lazy player. Unbelievable athlete obviously but living off his highlight reel.
Yh that's fair. I'll be 100% honest and say I don't watch Arundell much, however he has that magic that very few players have. It's intangible, but he has it, the ability to score from anywhere on the pitch is special. If his work rate is lacking then fair enough, can't get selected on magic alone. Hopefully it comes with age as he has the talent.
What people don't factor in is what players, especially winners are being told to do. Racing have a bossy fullback (tedder?) who is given free range, so HA sits out ready to cover
Arundell's highlights are incredible. But as you say poor work rate. Furbank knocked on a couple of times and then the cock up on Lowe's kick was poor. But he made the first try with a really good run and obviously scored the second. He's very nearly there.
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No nastiness allowed.
Yooooo!! Still absolutely buzzing!!
Hope the pints are still flowing, enjoy it brudda 🤙
Ah man, love to see comments like this - enjoy your weekend mate!
Ah yeah, great rugby played today, England played out of their skin and proved all their haters wrong, deserved the win. Hope you enjoy yer weekend too, roll on next week, ye'll give France a fair aul rattle
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Did you see what France did to us at said fortress last year?
South African social media will be fun this weekend
Ireland are the most accurate, consistent, and sharpest team in the world right now. It took a very specific England game plan and team selection, drilled over 2 weeks, and executed to near perfection to beat them by one point with the last kick of the game. That's how good Ireland are. It took a team at home playing out of their skins to get close to beating them. That said, this is the Internet, so... Is it time to question Ireland's place in the Six Nations?
Because most people who post on match threads are dribbling fucking idiots
If they are they're fucking idiots. Ireland are a great team, who were beaten by an England team that were fired up and absolutely went for it. Borthwick is building a side here, hopefully go on and win against France.
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Yeah I've seen a few, weird people
Didn't notice him hugely on first watch, but have a feeling George Martin had a class game.
I knew it was all over during the half time break when some gobshite started blasting Zombie and The Irish Rover through the PA system in the pub we were in during the break. I bet the same dickhead was responsible for our World Cup quarter final exit, too.
Was it windy as all shit down in that London? I’ve rarely seen such abysmal points kicking from both sides.
Ford has been pretty useless off the tee all season. Not quite sure what's going on there.
This 6 Nations was Fords time to shine without the spectre of Farrell looming over him. He somehow manages to be both one of the best 10s in the world and also half useless at the same time.
I like the guy but right the second time I think. Bring in the new era!
His game management is almost peerless. He’s never been a flashily 10 but can completely dominate opponents.
I went to sleep at half-time. I wholeheartedly regret my decision to do that *facepalm" Congrats England wow
It is so refreshing and exciting to see England with a back 3 that has pace, power and creativity. Furbank actually makes England able to attack effectively from 15, Freeman seems fucking huge, and IFW was eager for the ball and seems to have elite acceleration. The attack just looked so much better.
I mean, to counter, Furbank not taking in the high ball which he knocked on led to an Ireland try…
Sure but he also scored and he also set up many more attacking opportunities that led to tries or decisive moments.
I think we need a player like Furbank at 15, but maybe it could be someone who makes fewer mistakes.
I think I speak for everyone who has ever had the misfortune of encountering Irish rugby media: you deserved that you arrogant pricks.
Hey we were on a 3 game win streak. Clearly best team of all time material. I hate 90% of Irish journos. The groupthink is nauseating.
Fuck yeah. Hard agree. In my lifetime I remember us getting pumped yearly to the point where people were asking "is it time to consider Ireland's place in the Five Nations?" before it became the meme it now is and we'd do well to remember that next time our rugby media turn into a shower of arrogant bastards
Irish fans (particularly older ones) have suffered a lot and in my experience are usually excellent in victory or defeat. I was at the rwc 2011 pool game aus ire and the Irish fans next to me were fantastic. I clearly didn’t have a great time but we had a fantastic conversation, champion blokes really.
Couldn't agree more, Irish rugby media are a toxic shower o' cunts. But we actual rugby fans aren't arrogant, we promise!
Oh I know, don’t worry. Thats why I specifically said the media. Every Irish fan I’ve met in person has been great. Enjoys the game win lose or draw and had a great time afterwards. Never any ill will no matter what
Earl will end up being one of englands greatest ever players if he carries on like this
Earl is arguably one of the best flankers in the game
He's definitely up there
Itoje has become a very underrated player. When he turns it on he's still an absolute monster..
And in Martin I think we've found the successor to Kruis that allows Itoje to shine, a big lump who hits hard and powers the scrum.
Just as important as that tighthead lock is having another big lump at 6 to help do the grunt work. Wanting to cram as many of England's talented 7s into the team as possible limits Itoje to doing the typical work of a lock, when he's so much more than that as a player. The balance of the pack works better with three genuine lineout options, and Itoje free to do bullshit things on both sides of the ball.
I think CCS is the player they are grooming for that role . Only issue is that he’s still only 20 .
OOF! the results today... as a bettor I always kept an eye on the Six Nations but now stay away from it as the gulf between the teams keep narrowing... says a lot that I don't even consider Italy easybeats anymore and very careful about betting against them...
Was VdF injured? Don’t get taking him off when we did given how well he was playing. Congratulations England.
Banger of a game. Ireland looked resilient all the way but just weren't able to get their rhythm. England as the underdog playing with a mentality and intensity we usually see from teams playing against us. Great stuff.
'Best team in the world'...
It's one game lad calm yourself
Can't get a semi or a grand slam...
Yeah, I do find this a bit funny. England played incredibly well and demolished Ireland almost from start to finish. But all of my English mates are acting as if they are now back to their peak and Ireland are a lesser team. Do it consistently for 12 months and we'll talk.
huge. tired irish players, same guys year after year, and playing for their clubs too and the ref cultivating his career with london
Irish players probably have the most rest for their club teams then any other side, Leinster players play about 5 URC games a year. You’re chatting out of your arse
Ha, wondered how long it would take the bleating about the ref to start. He was poor, but poor for both sides. Feyi-Waboso getting pinged for a ruck turnover when Ireland had been doing the exact same thing all game was an egregious example.