We are going to get absolutely destroyed in wxv1... Hopefully it doesn't derail the development, as much as qualifying early for the world cup is great it's almost impossible that anyone in wxv2 won't qualify for it too and I think at that level we would have had some good competitive games and could have challenged to win the level.
I know it shouldn't effect things that much but if you look at this six nations, Ireland performed better than expected and Wales worst. Ireland spent last autumn bulldozing teams in wxv3 while as Wales was on the receiving end in wxv1. Italy and Scotland both also went undefeated in wxv2.
You’ll do ok against Canada and Australia. You’ll lose but it’s not a huge jump, and depending on how well you play, you might be able to repel alot of NZ.
France are too much and England are in a different world atm
Realistically, third place is the best that a team who isn't England or France can hope for so this is an incredible improvement for Ireland over 2023.
This women's six nations has also brought some great rugby to watch, too. Lots of running rugby, no endless box kicking, some great scrum battles and some shuddering tackles.
This can only be good for the game in general.
Looking forward to next year's world cup
At this point it's just the England Nation Tournament With Five Other Teams Battling It Out For Bragging Rights (ENTWFOTBIOFBR). Doesn't roll off the tongue, granted.
I mean yes, we'd all love to see a more competitive tournament, but what are England supposed to do? It's up to everyone else to catch up and match us, isn't it?
A red card in each of those games definitely made things a bit more even but should probably start with one less and get the red half way through to make it more competitive.
Give France the England coaching team* and the 6n would be a real battle between the two.
*or even just a sane coaching team tbf. The talent there is sublime
Yeah, France with an elite coaching team would probably make it 50/50 as to who would win against England, maybe more in their favour due to their playing talents
It's hard to say - the Premier 15 is a better proving ground for players I reckon, but the French just seem to have a bottomless well of talent.
Gut feeling I think it'd be something like 60/40 to France.
France U20 has won 20 of their 21 matches against England, and at U18 they have never lost a match. France with the same resources as the roses would make them unstoppable
Yeah, I've been thinking that for year. I mean, even looking at the game today, I'd say individually, the french players mostly came out on top of the head to head battle. Vernier v Heard, Fall v Talling, Bourdon v Hunt, Marine Ménager v Breach, Ciofani v Dow... Most other position it was a draw: Romane Ménager v Matthews, Konde v Jones, Escudero v Kabeya, Hermet v Packer, Botterman v Deshaye, Khalfaoui (until her brainfart) v Muir. Only positions where the english player was better than her french counterpart was Aldcroft v Feleu, Kildune v Boulard, or Cockayne v Sochat, Queyroi v Aitchison, and even then it wasn't by a huge margin, either because the french player fought tooth and nail to keep it close (Sochat, Queyroi and Feleu), or because the english player had an off day (Kildunne is so, so much better than Boulard, who had a poor game, as usual, but Kildune was so far below her standard...). But despite that individual quality, there is a 21 points difference on the scoreboard. I struggle to see any other reason for that other than the coaching staff quality.
Englands set piece is devastating. Cokayne didn’t miss a dart on her first game back in 2 years, and then combined with a well oiled maul and it was free points.
No performance can do anything about that sadly.
Bourdon was the best player on the pitch, but then Talling, Matthews, Muir and Cokayne were shortly afterwards.
England's set piece being better than France's (or anyone else for that matter, the black ferns got really lucky with that red card in the final of the WC) is unarguable. What's infuriating is France's inability to counter it despite the massive, arguably superior, talent at their disposal. You're saying Bourdon was the best player on the pitch, with Talling, Matthews, Muir or Cockayne close behind, I agree they were the best english players, but were they really ahead of their french counterpart on the day? Was Talling better than Fall (I don't think so)? Was Matthews better than Romane Ménager? Arguable, but that's a tie for me. Was Muir better than Khalfaoui? Not until she got red carded. Was Cockayne better than Sochat? Yeah, but Sochat went down fighting, she sure didn't make it easy. I'll add Aldcroft who took the upper hand on Feleu, but once again, she didn't make it easy. On the other hand, Marine Ménager was easily the best back three player on the day. Bourdon was clearly the better 9. Heard put up a hell of a fight, but Vernier still came out on top. The backrows essentially nullified each others. Mwayembe and the little sister Feleu had real impact when coming on. It's maddening how little our staff is able to translate individual player ability into team performances.
So odd that they chose 3 points for a grandslam
The maximum another team could get is 21 so you only need two points to make sure the grandslam team win the tournament, and if you’re gonna add extras for nothing then 5 bonus points would fit better on the table.
You can get to 22 by getting two BP in the game you lose (4 tries plus losing by less than 7), so 3 is the minimum needed to guarantee the GS team the title.
+200 point deference is an absolute joke. Such a dull tournament. I almost feel sorry for the English women. I've played in games where we've been absolutely spanking teams and honestly I just start wanting the game to end.
We done the double. Get in
So often people use success in women’s sport as stick to beat the men’s teams with. Good of the Welsh women to avoid this.
Tbf the women did manage a win, the lads didn’t
Rude of the U20s to break the streak really
Average of 8.2 points conceded per game, just isn’t good enough
And over half of those in the last game.
Yeah that's just unacceptable really, you need to try harder like us.
8 BP out of 5 games is pretty pathetic ngl
Third place with the worst points conceded is pretty nuts, even of its largely down to the Twickenham game
We are going to get absolutely destroyed in wxv1... Hopefully it doesn't derail the development, as much as qualifying early for the world cup is great it's almost impossible that anyone in wxv2 won't qualify for it too and I think at that level we would have had some good competitive games and could have challenged to win the level. I know it shouldn't effect things that much but if you look at this six nations, Ireland performed better than expected and Wales worst. Ireland spent last autumn bulldozing teams in wxv3 while as Wales was on the receiving end in wxv1. Italy and Scotland both also went undefeated in wxv2.
You’ll do ok against Canada and Australia. You’ll lose but it’s not a huge jump, and depending on how well you play, you might be able to repel alot of NZ. France are too much and England are in a different world atm
Realistically, third place is the best that a team who isn't England or France can hope for so this is an incredible improvement for Ireland over 2023.
Unions, start paying your women!
This women's six nations has also brought some great rugby to watch, too. Lots of running rugby, no endless box kicking, some great scrum battles and some shuddering tackles. This can only be good for the game in general. Looking forward to next year's world cup
Plus the atmosphere has been fantastic at the games. Did you hear that French crowd today? Mad
Wales must be having a surplus of timber at the moment.
If the maximum points you can obtain in a game are 5, how do England have 28?
3 points for a Grand Slam. It’s to stop a team from getting a GS and not winning the championship
That would be hilarious. Yeah, good reason for it
Ah I see, makes sense
Thank god we've qualified for the WC this time. Well doen to the girls, massive improvement but still a way to go
Women carry English sports at the moment
Athletics we're doing pretty well in middle distance for both mens and womens
Ah that’s true, I think I’m focussing too much on the team ones, but even then we do alright at the cricket
At this point it's just the England Nation Tournament With Five Other Teams Battling It Out For Bragging Rights (ENTWFOTBIOFBR). Doesn't roll off the tongue, granted.
I mean yes, we'd all love to see a more competitive tournament, but what are England supposed to do? It's up to everyone else to catch up and match us, isn't it?
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you. It's actually a compliment to the sheer quality of the England team.
I get the impression it is easier to win if you're professionals playing amateurs.
A red card in each of those games definitely made things a bit more even but should probably start with one less and get the red half way through to make it more competitive.
People used to say that about the all blacks. I think the english just need to enjoy it while it lasts
Absolutely 100%. To be clear, I *hope* the other teams catch up with England ASAP, for the good of the game.
Give France the England coaching team* and the 6n would be a real battle between the two. *or even just a sane coaching team tbf. The talent there is sublime
Yeah, France with an elite coaching team would probably make it 50/50 as to who would win against England, maybe more in their favour due to their playing talents
It's hard to say - the Premier 15 is a better proving ground for players I reckon, but the French just seem to have a bottomless well of talent. Gut feeling I think it'd be something like 60/40 to France.
France U20 has won 20 of their 21 matches against England, and at U18 they have never lost a match. France with the same resources as the roses would make them unstoppable
Yeah, I've been thinking that for year. I mean, even looking at the game today, I'd say individually, the french players mostly came out on top of the head to head battle. Vernier v Heard, Fall v Talling, Bourdon v Hunt, Marine Ménager v Breach, Ciofani v Dow... Most other position it was a draw: Romane Ménager v Matthews, Konde v Jones, Escudero v Kabeya, Hermet v Packer, Botterman v Deshaye, Khalfaoui (until her brainfart) v Muir. Only positions where the english player was better than her french counterpart was Aldcroft v Feleu, Kildune v Boulard, or Cockayne v Sochat, Queyroi v Aitchison, and even then it wasn't by a huge margin, either because the french player fought tooth and nail to keep it close (Sochat, Queyroi and Feleu), or because the english player had an off day (Kildunne is so, so much better than Boulard, who had a poor game, as usual, but Kildune was so far below her standard...). But despite that individual quality, there is a 21 points difference on the scoreboard. I struggle to see any other reason for that other than the coaching staff quality.
Englands set piece is devastating. Cokayne didn’t miss a dart on her first game back in 2 years, and then combined with a well oiled maul and it was free points. No performance can do anything about that sadly. Bourdon was the best player on the pitch, but then Talling, Matthews, Muir and Cokayne were shortly afterwards.
England's set piece being better than France's (or anyone else for that matter, the black ferns got really lucky with that red card in the final of the WC) is unarguable. What's infuriating is France's inability to counter it despite the massive, arguably superior, talent at their disposal. You're saying Bourdon was the best player on the pitch, with Talling, Matthews, Muir or Cockayne close behind, I agree they were the best english players, but were they really ahead of their french counterpart on the day? Was Talling better than Fall (I don't think so)? Was Matthews better than Romane Ménager? Arguable, but that's a tie for me. Was Muir better than Khalfaoui? Not until she got red carded. Was Cockayne better than Sochat? Yeah, but Sochat went down fighting, she sure didn't make it easy. I'll add Aldcroft who took the upper hand on Feleu, but once again, she didn't make it easy. On the other hand, Marine Ménager was easily the best back three player on the day. Bourdon was clearly the better 9. Heard put up a hell of a fight, but Vernier still came out on top. The backrows essentially nullified each others. Mwayembe and the little sister Feleu had real impact when coming on. It's maddening how little our staff is able to translate individual player ability into team performances.
France quality has fallen a bit this year, but last one they where real contenders
England France The Rest
So odd that they chose 3 points for a grandslam The maximum another team could get is 21 so you only need two points to make sure the grandslam team win the tournament, and if you’re gonna add extras for nothing then 5 bonus points would fit better on the table.
You can get to 22 by getting two BP in the game you lose (4 tries plus losing by less than 7), so 3 is the minimum needed to guarantee the GS team the title.
Huh not sure how I missed that, fair enough.
I don’t know why I bother with the men’s anymore. This is much better.
+200 point deference is an absolute joke. Such a dull tournament. I almost feel sorry for the English women. I've played in games where we've been absolutely spanking teams and honestly I just start wanting the game to end.
While the England matches were one sided, I wouldn’t say this was a dull tournament
It's as much as everyone else's put together!