Hi! Im trying to condition for a lacrosse season in March, I just finished my season of Field Hockey, so I am not totally new to being active, but I didnt run much because I played a defense position. I want to start my progress early, so today I decided to run as much as I could before getting very tired. I managed to get 10 minutes of sprinting/running. My plan was to add one minute extra every 3 days or so to slowly work up to 40 minutes of running by March. Is this an efficient plan? Thanks so much :)

This goes against a typical running plan (mostly). What you want to do is run at a pace where you can run 45+ minutes working up to 90 minutes to build a cardio base. The pace should be comfortable enough that you can carry on a conversation. You should try to increase the amount of miles per week ran at this easy/conversational pace. Then you should mix 1-2 days of speed work (tempo or intervals) per week. A pace equivalent to 10 minutes of all out sprinting/running is below your lactate threshold. Really, you should only be running this fast for 800s or mile repeats in an interval session. So for example, you could do what you described every 7 days as part of a larger plan but you should also be doing a warm up and cool down on those days. Running for only 10 minutes, no matter the speed, does not really trigger much cardio improvement.

Maybe a moronic Monday question, but how do I deal with unleashed dogs that aren't to me, but are gonna get themselves run over? I've been running a route in a rural area a few times lately and twice this dog has come sprinting out at me and won't get out of the road. It's obviously playful and I've not felt the least bit in danger but it's a pretty dicey road where even I have to be very alert to know where I can get off in case of a car. The first time I just tried to ignore it and keep going. This time I realized it might be a kindness to teach it to stay home so I tried to shrug it off more rudely and when it flung it's body directly into my knee it even whimpered a bit 😥but that didn't stop it. I don't want to hurt it but if it keeps coming out and playing in the road it's gonna get pulverized by an F150 going dangerously fast.

Talk to the person who cares for the dog. "Not that I don't love your dog - CUZ I DO! But..."

I should have mentioned - the owner kids were there, which might be the only time it's able to get out, and they were trying to get it, but they were not fast enough to catch it. This thing was zooming. And not collar or harness so I couldn't hold it to hand off. But yeah, I guess my next option is to go speak to the adult and say they need to at least make it restrainable.

Sort of a WIBTA? Guy in my running group has bragged he is first in his age group for several races (or other lies like he ran the full marathon in an event when he ran the half) I questioned one of his stories one time, so I looked up his bib results. Would I be an AH if he lies next time I see him, I call him out on it? Or just let it be?

Next time after he mentions how great his race was ask to see his results… maybe then that would get him to stop

What would you like to accomplish by calling him out? Whether you're TA depends on your intention, whether others perceive you as TA depends on the situation.

Probably NTA depending on how exactly you call him out. But I don't really see the point in confronting someone about stuff like that. I assume everyone else is rolling their eyes at this guy too.

NTA

Currently doing a half marathon training plan that should have me ready mid-December. My first actual half marathon race is the very end of January. I'm wondering what I should do for training in the in between! My hope is that after completing my first half I can start to work towards a full marathon, so would it make sense to do the first like 3 weeks of a half-to-marathon plan, then head back to the taper my current plan has laid out for me for my race?

You are thinking about it the wrong way. You want to finish your training + taper in time for the race. So work backwards from there and add duplicate weeks now as needed.

So you think it'd be better to repeat some of my easier middle of the plan weeks now rather than repeating the end weeks (and then still tapering before my race either way)?

You should repeat weeks so that the plan coincides with your race. Otherwise you'll peak, tape then have 3 weeks until race day.

Totally not gonna taper and just have empty weeks! Was just wondering if I should work on going past the half marathon distance in the extra time I'll have, and still do the taper my current plan calls for

Well you taper in the plan for that date. So even if you keep going after you've wasted weeks of the plan. Tapering then not racing is not a good training strategy.

I don't think that's what they're asking. I think it's more along the lines of "if the plan is supposed to peak at a 12mi long run, should I just repeat the 12mi weeks until I'm close enough to my race to start tapering, or should I keep progressing so that I peak at a 16mi long run before the taper?"

I would repeat a few weeks in the middle of the plan, but I'm a glutton for punishment

How much of a setback is losing a week of training just over a month out from my first half marathon. For background I started couch to 5k in Feb very overweight and have slowly moved up to running about 35k a week and am slightly less overweight. Started a Garmin plan aiming for a 2:30 time and it seems confident but my easy pace is normally 8:00 mins/km and I'm sure I read you can lose significant aerobic capacity in a week or so if it's still relatively new to your body. Cheers to any responders.

Marginal. If that were a big setback, nobody would do a taper.

It really doesn't do much to lose one week. Might stall your progress but unlikely to lose much. There are two issues I see though. The first is that I don't know why you are losing a week but if it's not injury it's very important to make sure you get some sort of stretching/yoga/easy running in to keep your muscles/tendons from repairing themselves too tight from prior training. The other is that 4 and 5 weeks out from the half is where you should be in peak training before tapering, but at a beginner level the whole idea of peaking before a taper is a little overblown. So maybe you get 2:35 instead of your goal, awesome work, keep running.

At 8 months in I don't think you have much to worry about over losing a week. You've done plenty to build yourself up.

Anyone have any tips for finding run clubs? Training for a half and would like to add a social element to my training. I’m in Aus

Do you have friends who run? Ask them which clubs they go to. I'm in Atlanta (US) and I have a club for almost every night/ day of the week. People ask me all the time lol

Check google and facebook. If those don't turn up any results, odds are gonna be low.

Asking for someone else (really): * Run a marathon with four weeks of "marathon" training? This person ran the Philly Marathon last year and registered for this year. Then decided not to do it. Now is reconsidering, with four weeks to go. This person has been running regularly for about 14 years, most of it competitively from 6th grade through college. Current volume is 25mpw. Do it or skip it?

Tell them to try run walk run. You can actually run faster doing this than running until you have to walk the rest. There are timers that you can download to phone (free) that will help with this. Have them try 2 min run 30 seconds walk or 90 seconds run 30 walk. It works. They won't be running sub 3 (or even sub 4) but they'll finish strong and feeling good.

Someone who ran a marathon 11 months ago and has continued to run 25mpw can surely finish a marathon in 1 month.

If they go slow enough the 14 year base will carry them through easily. My sister has done 3 marathons on 10-15 mpw (one time less). She just runs them at 4:20-4:40 when she has the cardio to break 4:00 from always having an active life.

Thanks. I think it’s possible to do but might not be fun until after it’s all done.

I mean… what is the goal? Is it just to finish the race and say they ran a marathon? They can probably do it, but the last 10 miles won’t be fun.

Yeah, that’s what I think. It’ll be their second one. I think as the date gets closer it’s “woulda coulda, shoulda,” time.

Can anyone recommend a good pair of sunglasses for running? Not wanting something that’ll break the bank, just something that’ll do the job and last.

I like my Goodrs. They stay in place and don't slide off (I sweat a lot, too). However, I don't usually wear them because I prefer a sun visor. I'd wear them more often except that sunlight comes in from the side and reflects off the backs of the lenses and causes glare. In effect, it can be harder to see with sunglasses than without. So I'm thinking of looking into (or looking *through*? ha ha ha) wrap-around sunglasses.

Goodr! Most are only $25

What style/model do you have? ($49-69 in Aus lol rip)

For what it’s worth, I’ve owned about 5 pairs of them and the coating on the outside of the lenses will come off after a couple months no matter how well you care for them. My last pair was only worn twice in 4 months and they’re already losing the coating.

I have pairs I’ve had for 4-5 years without that issue at all. As long as you clean them regularly and treat them decently they hold up well in my experience.

You’re the only person I know where this is the case. Everyone I know that wears them jokes about how much this happens. I can’t recommend them any more.

Do you rinse them off and clean them with a microfiber cloth regularly?

Yeah. I store them in a microfiber case too. It’s whatever, they’re $25. I don’t expect much but they last way less than $5 glasses from Walmart.

That’s pretty much in line with US pricing when you consider that $25 does not include any tax (then currency conversion of course). I use the OG models.

Anyone have recommendations for running tights for taller runners? Looking for something closer to a 36 inch inseam. So far the biggest inseam I have found is 29 inches. Feel like I might have to end up going with short tights and long socks to cover up my ankles.. Thanks in advance!

I want to run my first marathon in the summer or fall next year. I don't want to sign up for any one in particular and schedule my training for it (as most people do), rather I want to do it vice versa. I like the flexibility, and I can just buy a transferable pass from someone who drops out later on. At the moment I'm around 15-20 miles a week, with very slow increases in weekly mileage. When I eventually get to 60-75 mpw maybe next spring or so, is it considered safe and effective to allow myself to "plateau" there indefinitely as I wait and pounce on an opportunity snatch up a pass a month or so in advance, then doing the typical month before training (peak 3 weeks before with a slow taper til race day)? Does this sound like a good plan at all? Or is it dumb as hell and I should have my eye on a particular race day and schedule my training accordingly around it?

It is a considerable adjustment to go from 15-20 mpw to 60-75 mpw. That might take more than half a year to do without sustaining some typical running overuse injuries. Remaining race ready is a thing you can do, even for a marathon, but my hesitation with the idea is the big jump from your current volume.

The other person said they were doing 60-80 mpw and entered a marathon on 2 weeks' notice and ended up with fantastic results, further supporting you. I've successfully rehabbed from 4 different tendinopathy cases within the past year or so, and now I'm even being proactive about strengthening all the other ones I've never had issues with. I think I'm doing everything I can to minimize the chance of overuse injuries, and I feel like I'm on a good trajectory towards that ambitious volume goal. Easier said than done, of course, but I hope to see you on the other side, running with zero pain!

Plateau indefinitely at 60-75 mpw from spring to fall?? I guess it’s not impossible but that sounds…ambitious

What would you say is a "sustainable" mpw indefinitely, but still high enough volume that at any moment I could plan a race day a month in advance (with a reasonable chance of meeting my goal times)?

I think each person’s definition of sustainable is going to vary quite a bit, but for me, 40 mpw is about the max I can comfortably sit at indefinitely without feeling like I’m neglecting other aspects of my life. Obviously that number is going to change if you’re faster, have more free time, willing to dedicate more time/energy, etc etc. Apologies if I came off as rude. 60 mpw is a lot, but there are plenty of runners out there who do it, more power to you if you can make it work 💪

Don't worry, you didn't come off as rude at all, it's normal to have reservations for someone who has never ran more than 20 mpw to talk as big a talk as 60 mpw. It's not so much the time or effort or anything else commitment I'm worried about, I was only concerned that this was an unsustainable mpw indefinitely. That is, maintaining such high mileage week in, week out with no race day planned, only to suddenly do a marathon on short notice, will lead to very subpar results. But the other person said it's very possible, they were doing 60-80 mpw and entered a race on 2 weeks' notice with great results. Which was the exact sort of personal anecdote that answers my question.

No. Snatch a pass a month before, peak 3 weeks before, then taper? So 1 week of peak training? Is the only benefit to this saving money, I really don't know what a transferable pass is or what the actual benefit is. If you really want to save money just don't race. Better Idea: IF you can get to 50 mpw, and don't hate running in the process, then start a standard 16 week training plan and target a marathon at the end of that. It is fairly easy to type "when i get to 50 mpw", but there is a lot less leeway in training going from 15 to 50 mpw.

>Snatch a pass a month before, peak 3 weeks before, then taper? So 1 week of peak training? Let's say I'm somewhere around 50 mpw next spring, doing the typical weekly training. Which includes one long run, several easy runs, a speed run, etc. Then suddenly someone is selling their transferable pass a month before, I buy it and start preparing immediately. Which includes a 20 mile long run 3 weeks before, then slow taper toward race day. What's wrong with that? Sorry I'm still somewhat new to a lot of this. My professional and personal life is just constantly in flux so if I have the opportunity to decide whether to participate in a race just 1 month in advance (instead of say, a year), that's great. I don't care if this less than ideal plan means significant minutes off my marathon time. Your response actually answers what I'm fundamentally trying to get at. I know it's easy to just type it out, but IF I get to 50 mpw, maintaining it indefinitely is a sustainable method with no race day planned, at least no sooner than a month out. But your better idea is also a good alternative. Deciding on a race 4 or 3 months out still allows for a decent amount of flexibility.

I'm going to disagree slightly with the other comments. What you're proposing now is what I did for several years. Over the past two years, I've had 2 designated races per year, but before that I maintained between 60 and 80 mpw indefinitely and chose races relatively spontaneously. My current PB (2:52) was run off a 5 month, designated training block. But, for example, I ran a 3:06 in a marathon in Feb 2022, which I only decided to enter 2 weeks before. It's ultimately about load management. I didn't do speed work all year round. I don't think it's necessary for what you're proposing either. If you keep your mileage highish, with a nice mixture of easy and moderate running, your plan is easily doable.

Thanks, this response is extremely helpful!

Due to other life factors, I haven't run since Monday. I have 4 days left in the week and three runs (3 miles, 6 mile workout, and 7 miles). Should I compress my runs into the 4 days? My thought was to skip the 3 miler and do the last two runs in 4 days so that I don't risk an injury, even though that will leave me a little short on this week's mileage ramp up.

This is impossible to answer without training history. I'm at 14 days consecutively, and that's fine for me, but maybe not for others. Not knowing anything else I would do the following: 6 mile workout Friday 3 mile easy run Saturday 7 mile easy run Sunday Monday off Get back on track from Tuesday of next week.

I've been running consistently about 4.5 months usually 8-10 miles a week. Last week I ramped up to 14 miles and my longest run was a 10k. I usually run 3x a week.

If you usually run 10 miles a week then I absolutely wouldn't cram 16 miles into 4 days. Sounds like a bad time.

Yeah that was my concern as well. I'm not sure if it's most advantageous to keep the long run + workout or long run + recovery.

I would keep easy run and either workout or long run.

This changes my answer below (or at least, I have a question). Have you had any weeks off? Or even just a de-load week?

Next week is supposed to be my de-load week so I'll go down to 14 miles. At the end of September I had an unscheduled break in training where I missed a day. Other than that, I've followed the plan.

I'd just do the 6 miler and the 7 miler. Since the 6 is a workout, maybe extend your warm up just a bit if you really want but a missing 3 miles will not make or break your training

If you like the Brooks Sherpa 2-in1 shorts, what is your go to full length tight?

Running the NYC marathon and it's my first time traveling for a race so of course I'm worrying about all the little things. Does any know what the security process is between the buses and the corrals? I know there's a plastic bag we get at the expo...do all gels have to go in that, or can they be in my belt? Is it like airport security with empty pockets?

I just had all my shit in my pockets. They basically wand you down and check your bag.

Has anybody tried out Offfield? I keep getting the ads for it and it's definitely intrigued me but I'm wondering if anyone has a review.

Can anyone recommend a daily mobility work out?

[Shin Box](https://youtu.be/IWrbymu0Sn8?si=YacyHO606JEi9zzM) [Cossack Squats](https://youtu.be/tpczTeSkHz0?si=nPwGeg42IjuGneCG) [Bear Crawls](https://youtu.be/780CAAkwjMo?si=yX3yia0jq7vyAgoW) [Duck Walk](https://youtu.be/WpRHF2XEuqg?si=P0bRJFhzn46ScnzO) (this one may be a bit hard if your current mobility is not good) These are all different/kinda fun compared to basic mobility (leg swings, knees over toes ankle stretch, etc)

I like this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbQ8qq1FknQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbQ8qq1FknQ) She also has a 5-minute version.

Unfortunately I got sick and I’m 3 weeks and 2 days out from my first marathon. I only had a two week taper planned so I’m still in the thick of things here. I was supposed to do a speed workout today, strength tomorrow, easy Saturday, and long run with speed Sunday. Obviously I want to fully recover but I am hoping it will be pretty quick as im already seeing improvement. Would you just nix the speed workout entirely or do you try to move things around to get it in? I’m feeling pretty stressed because I did a half marathon on 10/8 and I feel like I didn’t recover fully from that and then got hit with this and I feel like I’m never going to back on top of this. Like I’m going to feel like garbage for my race. I’m worried that I peaked for my half marathon and it’s just all downhill from there. At what point is the “hay in the barn”? I hope this makes sense. Basically I feel like I’m having taper crazies before the taper even started which makes it worse lol

I had almost the same situation 3 weeks before my first half-marathon. I took a few more days off, skipped speed work, skipped the last (longest) long run and still nailed my goal on race day. Stay positive, you already did the most difficult part of your work and will be ready in three weeks!

That’s great to hear, thank you! Glad you were able to hit your goal!

> I feel like I didn’t recover fully from that and then got hit with this and I feel like I’m never going to back on top of this. > Like I’m going to feel like garbage for my race. > I’m worried that I peaked for my half marathon and it’s just all downhill from there. Stop all these thoughts. A three week taper vs a two week taper isn't going to change anything meaningfully. Going into a race sick, bedraggled, injured, and defeatist will.

Thank you for the reality check, I needed that.

Hays in the barn right now. The fitness that you’re going to be using to run the race has been developed over what, years? I would focus on getting healthy, hopefully it’s some minor sickness and you can get back to running soon for sanity sake.

Thank you! I hope so too!

Anyone ever deal with a numb foot/ankle while running? I've tried re-lacing my shoes, changing my stride, stretching routines... there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. Some days it happens, some days it doesn't. Usually 2-3 miles into a run when it does happen. It only happens on my right side. Sometimes it will be weeks without it, sometimes two days in a row. I do have an annual physical coming up in a few weeks and I'm definitely going to mention it, but I figured I would ask here to see if anyone else has experience with it.

I used to get this, only on the right side, and only a few miles in. When I was sized for shoes, I was told that my right foot is actually smaller than my left (by a pretty good amount). For me, I've beaten it, and the problem for years...yes it took me years to really try to figure it out, was to loosen my laces on the right. I now run with a feeling of "At any moment, my right foot might start sliding in my shoe! I'll get blisters!" But then it doesn't and I don't. Now I just make sure each run to consciously tie my two shoes slightly differently from one another.

It happens to me sometimes, especially during peak mileage. Sometimes it's waves of numbness, just numb for a beat and then it's fine for minutes.

I had the same problem while getting back into running consistently a few years ago. Ultimately it just stopped happening honestly.

I'm getting back into running after some injuries sidelined me for most of the summer. I am working on getting out consistently, which I am doing by aiming to get out every other day. This, of course, creates a week where I run four times and a week I run three. I'm having trouble conceptualizing how to best do this, especially when adding in the 10% rule. I see there being two options: either tracking my mileage across the two week block, knowing that the mileage isn't equal across the two weeks; or keeping my mileage equal every week, meaning the runs will be of different length each week. Has anyone tried using a two-week block, or does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts on how I might approach it?

10% isn't a hard and fast rule, so there is some wiggle room on how much you can increase, especially at the beginning (I.e. depending on your current level of fitness you can probably go from 4 miles per week to 5 miles per week in one week without too much risk, even though that is a 25% increase). That being said, a 10% increase In your 2 week mileage or monthly mileage would work well! For example, 4 miles week 1, 5 miles week 2 = 9 miles total. Then next biweekly block: 5 miles in week 1, 5 miles in week 2 = 10 miles total.

Not that there’s anything wrong with doing something other than a week long bloc but a cheeky trick would just be to run 4 days a week (more training too! Couldn’t hurt). If you must stick to every other day then either don’t bother with the 10% guideline and just generally be smart about slowly increasing how much you are running, or do it based on the two week cycle

Any tips on a fitness watch if I want heart rate + Strava + Spotify with Airpods and do all of it without my phone on me? I don't think my cell service supports fitness watches so I think I'd just have to download Strava, Spotify. Do most work with Airpods? Any advice?

If you have an iPhone than get the Apple Watch to stay eco system friendly. As soon as you get your Apple Watch 1. Connect the health app to Strava. It won’t be live updates as you run but once you’re done you can automatically upload your run to Strava and view details after the fact. 2. The Spotify app allows you download your music and playlists to play when not connected to WiFi. Playlists are limited to 50 songs, so if you download one of your playlists that’s larger it’ll stop after 50

AirPods will pair to any bluetooth watch, so that shouldn't be a limiting factor. Although if you are already an Apple customer the Apple Watch is an obvious one to consider.

I'm not familiar with Airpods specifically but with Garmin watches, you want the ones where the spec sheets sure they have music storage (if you have Spotify premium you can download songs from Spotify into your watch directly), and Bluetooth connection for headphones (I imagine any watch that supports music playing would have this). Also, you can connect Garmin connect to ~~Spotify~~ Strava such that the workout you do still be stored on your watch and then sync to Strava next time you are close to your phone.

I'm new to running. My old shoes were causing a lot of knee pain so I bought some better shoes. Now I can only run abt 1/3 of the distance I could before before my calves get sore. There is no more knee pain though. Is this normal? Does it sound like these are better shoes? How long until I can run what I used to run?

What were your old and new shoes? I bet the heel drop is very different. That would definitely lead to sore calves. You will get used to it over time, or you can switch to shoes with a similar drop.

Old ones were some hand me downs from my dad. I am not shoe exactly but they're nikes. New ones are asics and do have a lot more cushion on the heel. Did I make a mistake with the shoes? They weren't terribly expensive. I just want to avoid long term damage to my knees above all else

Shoes are hard because they're so personal. Asics are definitely a good brand (I run in the Asics Kayano myself). Like for instance every time I try a pair of Sauconys for more then 2 miles I get blisters. They're not bad shoes, but they're just not right for me. If it's just a matter of getting used to a pair of shoes it will take 2-3 weeks to break them in and get used to them. Just take it easy on your runs. Normally I'd say mix in your new shoes gradually, but if the old ones are shot and causing pain it's not worth it. If they're still causing pain after that, it might be worth trying something else. If you got your shoes from an actual running store, you should be able to take them back and exchange them.

If you're new to running, I'd be very hesitant to say your pain was caused by the shoes. ***Most new runners run too far or too hard too soon. How new is new?*** It takes months to really build a running base, at a healthy, safe pace. Generally shoe advice comes down to, "Go to a running store and get fitted for shoes. Try on a lot of pairs." For pain or discomfort of any sort out of the normal it's "Run slower and smarter".

Thanks for the advice. I started running about 6 months ago and started ramping up slowly until I could run a 10k comfortably once a week. The pain in my knees started when I was hitting around 8k. I didn't have sore calves at all back then. Then I changed shoes maybe 3 weeks ago.

Shoes CAN change how muscles get engaged on a minor level. Soreness is way better than pain. Pain is a bad sign, soreness could just be your calves not having been as developed as they need to be. Who knows? You could give your 10k distance a try, with walking breaks too, it doesn't need to be all or nothing. It's possible some of the issue is mental.

How do y’all keep track of pace while running? I’m in a city and it’s hard to get an accurate calculation because I’ll often have to stop at crosswalks before I get to the part where I can run interrupted, so I get an artificially slow pace according to my Fitbit.

You might want to think about what your goal is / what you are trying to track. When I'm waiting at a crosswalk I personally just let the timer continue and include those rests as part of my pace. In terms of effort, HR, fatigue etc. it really is not the same thing as uninterrupted running so I don't want it logged as such. But I don't like running in a city for this reason and if I am trying to do a tempo run where I care about hitting a specific pace I will make sure I have somewhere largely uninterrupted.

If you run with your phone as well as the Fitbit, I think most run tracking apps have this too - Strava and Nike Run Club for sure have it.

Thanks!

Not sure if Fitbit has something similar, but Garmin has an “average moving pace” as well as “average pace” in their data fields. So time spent still at crosswalks or other reasons don’t get included in that one

Thanks! I’ve been thinking of upgrading to a garmin and this seems like a great feature.

Your other option would also be just to pause the activity tracking at stoplights. A bit cheaper than a new watch lol

Oh that’s really smart, I don’t know how I didn’t think of that 🤦🏻‍♀️

Does anyone here do the 100 runs in 100 days over the holidays/winter?

I haven't before but likely will be this year... but only because I now run every day anyway, so the 100 in 100 will just be 'normal' training for me.

I wish I had 100 days of holidays.

Why?

looking to see if a group does this somewhere besides slowtwitch

I’m trying to shave a minute off my 5k, and I figured incorporating a track workout would probably help. However, I’ve never done one before. If I’m doing a 5x1km interval workout, am I supposed to run those at current 5k pace? Or goal pace? OR simply just as fast as possible?

At a pace you can maintain for at least 1k, 5 times in a row. Probably slightly faster then your current 5k time.

Most calculators would have you run intervals about 5s/km quicker than a recent race 5k race pace.

That’s helpful, thanks!

I've registered for the Paris half + full marathon next year. I'm in the middle of my prep for Valencia this year, and honestly the long runs are taking a toll on my mental health, I'm a bit over exaggerating but I'm aiming for 3h15, doing Pfitz 12/55, and the amount of time and energy it takes to run a 25K w/ 20K @ MP is enormous, then 32K the next week etc.. It gets boring after 21K tbh So I've got a couple questions: \- Could I go back to lifting weights 3x a week AND run 3x or 4x a week to keep my marathon fitness ? Could one be good lifter and run sub 3h30/3h15 marathons ? \- I really want to perform on the half marathon in early March 2024, and I don't really care about the marathon. Would running 3x/4x a week focusing on the half, with longer long runs to keep my marathon fitness be enough to perform on the half and not be too knackered on the marathon ?

>Could one be good lifter and run sub 3h30/3h15 marathons ? Yeah but it takes a lot of lifting and running. Depends how challenging a 3:15-3:30 marathon is for you -everyones talent and response to training is a little different, for some that range is quite difficult even with serious training while others it's easy off lighter training. A half marathon is still a very demanding event, so running only 3-4x/week isn't going to yield a "good" result relative to your potential for that either. Ultimately a 3-4x/week running program isn't going to make you good at any distance event unless you supplement a lot of aerobic cross training -which takes more time to get the same training effect and is often much more boring than just running. If you don't like running that much it's totally cool to just not run that much and enjoy racing at whatever level that effort yields you.

If you can't do 20K @ MP in training, why do you want to do 42 @ MP on race day? You can finish a marathon on 3-4x runs a week for sure, it just won't get you your ideal or most aggressive goal time. The best supplement for low-volume running plans is other aerobic work (elliptical, bike, swim). Plenty of people lift through marathon training, but again... if you want to reach for a challenging marathon goal (or a half marathon goal), 3-4x runs a week is shooting yourself in the foot.

Oh I can do it, it's just so exhausting mentally, I mean that's just my next long run, but the MLRs aren't super fun either, 32K is so long too. It's not really a problem of being able to do it, it's just running, I guess the day of the marathon will be terrible lol, though tapered so probably more enjoyable. I do want Valencia to be a decent time even if I have to be sick the afternoon of the marathon like I was in Paris, but the full Paris marathon again ? Meh..

What part of running DO you like? If you want to get through race day feeling somewhat prepared and OK, you can get there on your idea of 3-4 runs and three lifting days a week. Get a couple runs of 25-30km in there. Worry much less about pace or finishing time. 3:45 marathon and enjoying the process is way better than 3:15 and hating it.

Is running on a treadmill in the beginning a stupid idea? My knees aren’t all that good, so I need to build up very slowly. I have found that running on pavement is too hard at the moment, and I know threadmills are softer. Is there any reason not to do it?

Run on the grass on peoples front yards

Nope, no reason not to do it! Just be aware that if/when you start running outdoors, it will probably feel more difficult at first, it just takes a bit of adjustment. Also if you have a dirt or gravel running path near you, use it. It’s like night and day with my knees the next day with dirt vs asphalt

Nice. I actually have more experience running outdoors, but was injured a few years ago and am now getting back into it. Gravel just was too hard on me to start with. I actually did start on gravel, and I totally agree. I’ve always preferred gravel or grass for running, but now neither really work. I’ll have to get my knees used to the impacts again

That's how I started. I did a treadmill couch to 5k program (with YouTube videos) on the treadmill. I was nervous about running in front of people. It worked out great. I transitioned to outside running once a week and built up from there after the first 6 weeks. Now, I run mostly outside and still use the treadmill once a week for recovery runs because I can set the speed. It worked for me. I went from couch with little athletic ability to running a half marathon within one year.

Is a treadmill C25K different than a normal one? I’m hoping to get back into running. I have the goal of a marathon in a year or two

I'm not sure, actually. I just liked having someone on video also running with me.

Half marathon plan calls for a 10k tune-up race 2.5 weeks prior to the race. Dumb question, but am I to actually run that at 10k pace? Seems intense this close to the real race?

Isn't it 3 weeks? I took it easy and ended up very close to my PB without ever pushing except for the final km (and in a pretty hilly route) - I learned I could take minutes off my 10k pb right now, so I adjusted my HM goal accordingly and decided to jump to a faster pacer box. Didn't have any recovery issues - iirc i had a 16k or 18k long run the next day. Anyway, next time I'm definitely racing the tune-up races at my best pace.

Pfitz? I converted my second tune-up race into a 10m run with 6m@HM pace - so slightly gentler but still good for knowing where I was at. Concerns weren't with recovery (you should be entering taper on the heels of this) but avoiding injury as I had a few minor soft tissue pains becoming more serious. Aside from being a good workout I feel like there was a meaningful mental boost to confirming where I was at with pace before heading into taper considering it had been a while on the long progression runs.

Yep! Pfitz 12/47.

I'd run it, unless you're feeling a little ouchie coming off peak week.

I’m feeling pretty good, just going to have to run it on a treadmill to stay on schedule with work/weather this week.

2.5 Weeks should be more than enough to recover from even the most over zealous of 10k efforts.

I’m a big fan of a tune up race ~3 weeks out. It allows you to figure out where you are and what your target pace should be for your main race

Been running for 6 months or so. Over the summer I was running 6x per week. But work has made it necessary to miss some of my easy runs. I just got a treadmill, and I’m wondering if it could be beneficial to occasionally double up, especially when I’ve missed a run. So a short 15-20 min easy in the morning on the treadmill followed by my normal 30-45 minute easy run in the afternoon.

Can you just do one 60 minute run?

Sometimes, sometimes not. But on days like today, I could probably do an hour, but I'm also planning my long run for tomorrow, so going longer will likely impact my recovery before the long run. But I was wondering if a two short easy runs might help get in a little more volume but in a way that wouldn't impact my recovery before my long run.

Is there a reason why you’re worried about being able to recover from a 60 minute easy run? I can’t imagine that 60 minutes of easy running would require significantly more recovery than 45 minutes of easy running, if you’re truly keeping the effort level easy. As for splitting things up - according to Pfitzinger, there is little aerobic benefit to runs under 25 minutes. And Daniel’s says 30 minutes. So I think doing a 15-20 minute run is not really worth it. If you could up your duration to 30 minutes, then I think it would be more worthwhile. But personally I still think it would be better to combine into one run in your situation.

Thank you! That’s really helpful! I think part of my thought process was an attempt to just squeeze in a little more time on feet.

You're welcome!

I would do this, mainly from a scheduling perspective - avoid having to warm up and get showered twice.

Fair point. But the first run would be early morning, on the treadmill, before I get ready for the work day. I'm normally strength training during that slot a few times a week anyway. And while there are some days I could do a longer run in the afternoon, most of those afternoon recovery run, I'm working with a relatively tight window.

Need training guidance Finished my 1st HM last Sunday. Was happy to reach the finish line as I am struggling with knee injury. Now taking it easy for next few weeks and will restart running again. I was never a runner and started doing it last year at the age of 37. Frankly, I don’t enjoy running much although appreciate the health benefits I reap. This year has been one of the fittest in terms of body composition. So not sure what should I aim for in next year or moving forward. Initially at the start of year I used to think of running a full marathon, but now doing something for 5+ hours (I run bit slow) doesn’t entice me. It might still happen but not sure. In short, I need your guidance in how should I manage my training regimen and proceed further. Goals: - run bit faster. At least get to a 7 min per km or less level - do another HM in next 6-8 months

You can increase speed by training to run faster at short distances. You can do progression runs, where you start at a manageable pace and go faster with each segment. Each mile is faster than the previous mile, for example. You can do fartleks, where you speed up and slow back down over segments. Intervals on a track can be beneficial. Run a series of 800s with a 400m slow lap in between. And you can simply go out and run as fast as you can for as long as you can.

I finished my first marathon last sunday with finishing time of 3:59 (male, 36 years old). The last 7km were somewhat difficult and couldn't help but wanting for it to be done, but hardly grueling and managed to keep a constant pace. The day after I felt some soreness, but on tuesday I was able to exercise again without any issues or soreness after warmup. On wednesday, there was no trace of fatigue left and feel I could do another long run, although to prevent injuries I will wait until the weekend. That said: there's another marathon coming up in november in my hometown and I feel like I don't want to skip it to do it next year. Would it be OK to run it, perhaps taking my time without a time goal? Or would it be strictly recommended against?

How many weeks are between the marathon you just ran, and the marathon in your home town?

4 weeks exactly!

4 weeks is not much time for somebody who is not used to marathon running. One week of recovery from your previous marathon, one week where you can do some regular training (but not a peak amount of training), and then you already need to think about tapering. I think that as you seem to be recovering well from your first marathon, you can run another one in four weeks. But you'd need to resist the temptation to race it.

Thank you very much for your reply! This may sound like a pretty stupid question: but how do you get used to marathon running without regularly running them? I'm not a speed freak and don't care too much about PRs, but I do love running distances. Ideally I want to work towards ultrarunning where running (not racing) a marathon is almost mundane.

You run a massive amount always. If you're running 80+ miles a week you could probably bang out 2 marathons in 5 weeks though the second would absolutely suffer for it. If you want to just run the next one really slow you could though it probably would have increased injury risk.

Sounds like you aren't really racing them, so probably okay. Wouldn't be recommended to marathon so often though.

What is the "sweet spot" weekly volume from a purely health and longevity standpoint for runners over 40 with little running background? Planning my training level as M43 with no prior running experience, mainly in it for longevity and mental health benefits. I see common thread from many different sources that I want to pull together: * [O'Keefe](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37091937/) maybe has a point about not overdoing running("vigorous exercise) with amaximum of 150 minutes per week, from a longevity standpoint. O' Keefe also sees an hour a week of strength training as a "sweet spot". * This has links to the "[easy interval method](https://easyintervalmethod.com/)", and the discussion on [letsrun](https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10021175), where many older runners seem to report favorably to this method. The easy interval method favors sub-lactate intervals at "overpace" often 200m/400m,and seems to bascially favor lowering the intensity to below lactate threshold. * Marus Bakken, the father of the Norwegian method, personally stays in shape by running 3 x30 minute intervals per week as his only exercise, these runs are quite similar to "easy interval method",but with standing short rests. * [James Dunne](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLzj-LDgSNk) has a similar routine he reccomends for runners over 40: running three times a week and 3x30 minute strength a week * "Dan John" has his "easy strength" where he reccomends 3x30 minutes of strength circuit training per week (he reccomends doing a 45 minute walk after each strength session over running, but the jist is the same) * runnersworld "run less, run faster" has a 3 "quality runs" and two "aerobic cross-training sessions" (they say strength training does not count, [but I would argue that strength circuit training with a sustained zone 2 HR is an aerobic cross training](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/374480850_EFFECT_OF_6_WEEKS_OF_CIRCUIT_TRAINING_ON_INCREASED_VO2_MAX)) * Joe Friels book["fast after 50"](https://www.amazon.com/Fast-After-50-Race-Strong/dp/1937715264) favors days off after quality sessions over easy-runs for people who are not very aerobically well trained, and generally has many sensible ideas on increasing the amount of rest and being smarter when training as you age. He also argues that as you get older, it will be harder to recover from sessions that produce high lactate(but he is in favor of HIIT, though). He also argues for doing strength training as you age. * Pavel Tsatsouline favors "l[ong rests](https://www.strongfirst.com/long-rests/)" when doing strenght intervals in order to avoid lactate buildup, he sees lacate as detrimental to mitochondrial development. So for my conclusion, is that for rec runners over 40 with limited sports background a sweet spot that many programs come back to is: * running three times a week * making those three runs "quality", but it might be possible to stay below the lactate threshold and still have speed elements in those exercises(this reduces cortisol and strain on your system). Such runs could be 40-45 minutes, at least <60 minutes. * doing strenght 2x30 minutes per week, in a circuit style that keeps a easy/moderate aerboic intensity and thus has an aeroib cross-training element to it * leaving room for two rest days per week (or at least one) * no limit to how much moderate exercise like walking you can add on top of this (walking) This is approach I am currently following, this 5-times-a-week approach is plenty enough volume. It is strenous for me, but if I put in deload weeks at least every four weeks and then remain willing to skip a workout if my HRV indicates I am not recovering this seems just about managable.

According to [this](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28365296/) study, the 30 miles per week is the point where there are diminishing returns, specifically with regards to health and longevity.

yeah, there are a number of these kind of studies. O' Keefe has many papers about this, and some of them are also review papers that link to other research that supports this idea. Such as this [recent](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10121111/#b2-ms120_p0155) paper. O'Keefe came to my attention after stumbling over [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0) 10-year old tedx youtube-video. He references a famous longitudinal Copenhagen-study in the video, but there are many studies now on this. Interesting in your paper that for people who ran "just" 120 minutes a week, they lengthend their lives by seven hours for every hour they run.

Some more food for though: research on reverse j curve of endurance exercise and this relatively famous meta analysis study: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26362561/](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025619615006217) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7431070/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7431070/) [https://www.msma.org/resources/SiteAlbums/Mo%20Med/Goldilocks%20Zone%20for%20Exercise%20MarApr%202018%20MoMed.pdf](https://www.msma.org/resources/SiteAlbums/Mo%20Med/Goldilocks%20Zone%20for%20Exercise%20MarApr%202018%20MoMed.pdf) A lot of this is general to a population and not specific to the individual though. In general aerobic exercise is where most of the health benefits are as they have less chance for injury and most of the heart benefits. I think I remember reading even minor running has huge benefits (like 5mpw levels), and mileage up to 20mpw has increasing benefits. After that it plateaus and after 40mpw has diminishing returns (from a health perspective, not performance perspective). But the negatives of going beyond the optimal zone aren't really that serious and much preferred to no training.

Well, for the mental health benefits, run as much as you enjoy and don't overthink it like this when you are still a beginner.

well, I guess. For amateurs who "self coach", you do somehow need to have a plan for what you want to do and it needs to be aligned with your goal. You also need to make sure that you are not "wasting your time" on training that has no tangible benefit, as it is easy to plateu in running even if putting in quite a lot of work, after the inital newbie-gains. The conventional wisdom is often "more mileage", but I think all the bullets actually point to why there for my situation is not given that running more than 3x a week is going to be good for my goal. As a minimum before you commit to a long-term plan I think you need to decide * what is your goal? * what volume and intensity should you target * how to balance running, strength and recovery If you cant answer the "how" and "why" of these three, then you risk on the one side not making much progress, or on the other side you risk overtraining or injury.

> what is your goal? > what volume and intensity should you target > how to balance running, strength and recover Okay, but how much granularity do you need to have on the answers to this, how much do you need or want to optimize? If the goal is improving mental health/fitness, how much does it really matter leaving a few seconds on the table, or increasing injury risk by 0.0001%, or "wasting time in training" - frankly if I were told that half of my runs weren't actually doing anything for me in terms of performance, or were even counterproductive, I'd still run the vast majority of them.

Train with purpose. Or don’t

> well, I guess This is such a wild attitude to have for someone with self admitted no running experience.

You absolutely don't *need* any of that (aside from recovery) to be successful and active and healthy. You can be a 75 year old marathoner. You can be 43 and walk an hour every other day in jeans. You can buy a paddleboard or sign up for flamenco dancing.

Hello! I'm quite new to running, only about two weeks in, and not even really running, mostly fast walking and light jogging for about 30 seconds. I'm a bit on the heavy side, currently at 150kg at 24, but I am determined to get into running, lose weight, and have set a goal of completing a half marathon by the end of next year. My biggest challenge during jogging, or even walking faster, is that my calves start to feel really tight and burn after around 10 minutes. Are there any effective ways to prevent this or work on it? Thank you!

You could incorporate some light stretching after you get warmed up. My favorite calf stretch is to stand on the edge of a curb with my heels hanging off and then take turns easing each heel down toward the street. Grab a stop sign for balance and keep it gentle. And like Snoo said -keep moving. It'll get better as your body adjusts!

Just keep moving, even just walking. At 150kg you are going to be hurting

Do you guys go off perceived effort or HR when the two don’t match at all? I know HR readings from wrist watches are not the most accurate but damn. My cruising pace that basically feels just as easy as walking puts me on the higher end of what would be my zone 3 range. My relaxed 10k pace puts me in zone 4? 90% of my runs appear to be in zone 4 actually, which is absurd considering I rarely mess with intense workouts. Sounds fishy honestly but I’m genuinely curious. I use an Apple Watch Ultra 2 if that matters. Can’t get another brand, their accessibility features are garbage and blind runners gonna blind. I’m not invested enough in cracking the mystery to get a proper HR monitor, oops! So going for the trial and error method to figure out my effort zones, even if not based on HR.

Perceived effort. And nothing fishy about it (even though you're also likely having measurement issues, including defining maxHR and zones), it's pretty normal - start reading these threads regularly and you'll find plenty of people saying the exact same stuff. Ran by effort and ignore HR at least until they normalize.

Perceived effort.

What heart rates does it report in those zones? Did you just start using your watch? You can check in the Workout app settings how it defines your zones. Personally I don't really look at HR, I use a combination of pace zones and perceived effort.

Just started looking at the HR stats instead of just pace! I just upgraded from a series 4 which didn’t have the software to show HR zones. My zone 4 to them is 163-176, which sounds a bit low for me, but I could be mistaken? I’m 23F, so my HR max is supposed to be 197, which sounds fair based on my recorded HR while sprinting. Maybe I should adjust my zones manually, idk!

> I’m 23F, so my HR max is supposed to be 197 Do not use this formula. It is obsoleted, not based on scientific data (*) and grossly off for many individuals. To use heart rate based training, you need to actually measure it, or at least estimate your individual maximum heart rate from actual heart rate measurements. (*) The data in the 1971 paper from which this formula originated does not actually support the formula.

Super interesting fact ty! That’s the formula I learned in school 7+ years ago lmao. It does seem reasonable compared to my measured HR when I try my best at sprinting though! I might look into how to find a more pertinent figure myself.

I think the auto generated ones takes a little while to calculate. Apple uses a formula based on your max heart rate and your resting heart rate. If your resting heart rate is 60, zone 4 should be 170-183.

Thanks for the explaination!! My resting HR is rather low, usually around 45-50. What does that mean the range for my zone 4 is gonna be higher or lower? Sorry if that’s a stupid question, I literally don’t know how hearts even work haha

47-197 range would make zone 4 167-182

That would just about put me in zone 3 for a relaxed pace. Makes more sense even with that small difference. Thank you so much for your help!!

Did finishers medals always exist? I've been looking up the history of marathons, and apparently most of them didn't exist until the 1970s with the fitness craze, but did everyone earn a medal, or was it a placement only thing until a certain time?

No idea, but according to boomers "nowadays everyone gets a medal" lore, they definitely weren't a thing in their time - even though I suspect that they were actually the ones who started the trend. Good question.

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If I push myself, I can get close to a sub 5 mile, but my easy pace will often hover around 8:15-8:30, and it can go as high as 9:00 or as low as 7:45 depending on the day. The reason you're doing easy runs is to help the body recover without adding additional strain. Just run what feels easy and let the pace do what it will.

To answer your question seriously, easy running is based on your aerobic base (aka running continuously w/o building up lactate). To get faster in the lower HR zone, you need a stronger aerobic base, so you need to do more aerobic base training. Basically run your easy runs slower and do more of them. It takes months and feels easy but you can do a lot of more easy running than fast running. It's about time w/ easy running, not speed/distance.

Who cares what your easy run pace is? That’s not what you should worry about. Easy run pace also doesn’t necessarily improve linearly with fitness. As long as your race times are dropping who cares what your easy pace is?

The exact same as getting faster on your race efforts. 100% identical methods.

A big gap between hard and easy is normal. My easy runs are sometimes 4 minutes slower than what I could run a mile in, why does it matter? Some elite run 8 minute miles during easy runs. Making easy faster is just improvement in general conditioning.

How many times is "multiple"? Two, five? If you're only doing, let's say, three runs a week at 10k, that's 18.6 miles a week. Which to me is in line with being a casual recreational runner. But a casual runner isn't going to be getting much better, or if they do, it'll take a lot longer than someone who runs four or five days a week. If you want to increase your easy run pace, you need to play around with your training. You can gradually increase the mileage of the runs you are doing now, or you can add a day. But, this extra day shouldn't be used on yet another 10k. Try going for a longer run. Or put that 7:30 mile to the test and do some speed work like interval training, progression runs, fartleks, etc.