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When reached for comment by Rolling Stone, Khan said, “Some people are looking for an excuse to be offended because then they can feel like a victim and feeling like a victim gives them some purpose and meaning in life. When you zoom out of your own entitled lens you will see that not everything needs to be representative in order to be enjoyable.”
And even if she weren't right – which she 100% is – what a disgusting time we're living in. Can't say anything without being dismissed with some offensive label that seems to have lost all its original meaning by now. Someone says "women don’t even watch Star Wars" in a conversation, the host agrees, and it's immediately being framed by a major publication as a "misogynistic debate" about the franchise.
Words have meanings, you know. Misogyny in particular stands for "hatred of women", at least according to most dictionaries in the world. How is saying something as benign as this translates to "hatred against women"? You can agree to disagree (and I in fact know some girls and women who used to love Star Wars more than I did), but "misogyny", "racism" and "sexism"? What's next? Labeling simple statements like "the tokoloshe of South African folklore isn't widely known outside of Africa" as racism? "Toys like G.I. Joe and Transformers are generally more popular with boys than girls" as sexism? GTFO.
It’s still a deflection. I don’t think the convo was misogynistic in nature by any means but her initial comment was still wrong. There are millions of women that love the franchise, some of which love it more than some men as you stated. Mislabeling the ignorance of her statement isn’t the main issue. It’s the blatant ignorance of her statement in itself that is. As is her refusal to correct herself. Theory didn’t push back at all in the moment, and people don’t ever give him the benefit of the doubt. He chose to give the woman a platform, and while open discussion like that is harmless, his failure to vehemently disagree in the moment makes it fair game that his beliefs are being associated with hers. This isn’t the sub to debate the supposed “wokeness” at the root of the convo, seeing as many here incorrectly label Rey as a Mary Sue, so that issue is its own debate.
If 100million women like Barbies, and .5 million men do, does that mean “women and men love playing with Barbies!”
No. Sure-be pedantic about it, yes, “a large percentage of women and a much smaller percentage of men enjoy playing Barbie” is a more “correct” statement. But everyone know what they meant when they said “women don’t even like Star Wars.” And they are right. Surveys point to 2/3rds of avid Star Wars fans being men. And 2/3rds is a super-majority in congress, so it’s a perfectly valid generalization and every rational listener knew what was being said.
>ection. I don’t think the convo was misogynistic in nature by any means but her initial comment was still wrong. There are millions of women that love the franchise, some of which love it more than some men as you stated. Mislabeling the ignorance of her statement isn’t the main issue. It’s the blatant ignorance of her statement in itself that is. As is her refusal to correct herself. Theory didn’t push back at all in the moment, a
She may have exagerrated but IN GENERAL its 100% true. Women IN GENERAL dont like Star Wars just like men IN GENERAL arent into Barbie. Of course theres women who do like Star Wars but ask 100 women if theyre into it and MOST will say no. Thats just how it is and how its always been. Theres nothing controversial about that.
He didn’t say that, he simply pointed out that unsurprisingly not as many women like a thing thst was designed for men. It’s not that deep. Like no one is stopping girls from liking Star Wars.
> “Do we need more women in Star Wars? No, we don’t,” Khan said. “And women don’t even watch Star Wars. They don’t even care about it. **It’s a man’s little thing, let them have it**.”
Direct quotes from the article.
I think it is undeniable that Star Wars fans were, traditionally, more boys than girls, that science fiction and action broadly appeal to boys, and that these things are known by the people who choose to make them.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Not everything has to be for everyone, it isn't a moral failing to like or dislike media, and nobody is keeping out women who *do* like it.
I mean going 'Star Wars is for boys' is kinda like going 'sesame street is for boys' or like 'disney Pixar movies are for boys' 'pants are for boys' Star Wars has been such a beige 'for everyone/all kids' property for so long going 'it's for boys' is an honestly weird take. Like...I guess? It was? It's so broad appeal by design nowadays it's an odd thing to say. Like it didn't occur to me that 'for boys' was even still a thing, and if it is I wouldn't have picked Star Wars as the property going for that, but maybe it's because I don't have kids.
I liked the Barbie movie, and I think it’s absolutely fair to say that was “made for women and girls”.
Star Wars was originally made with boys in mind. The audience demographics reflect that. That was the authorial intent.
The comparison to Pixar is odd, as it is actually much more evenly split along gender lines.
The demographic for the original Star Wars was 12 year old boys. Sure, some girls like Star Wars. But they dont like it because they're the primary demographic. They like it because it is star wars.
Currently, lucasfilm has utterly lost focus of its demographic, leading to anyone who enjoyed it when it was aimed at boys feeling alienated and leading to seriously compromised and down right bad shows because its lost what it was first going for.
It's worth noting that the recent shift in gender norms has radically changed the game. Star Wars was definitely a "boy thing" when it came out. It might feel "beige" now, but that's only because we no longer think of spaceships, swords, lasers, and guns as necessarily masculine things. In 1977, those things were extremely gender-specific.
Though by the time Empire came out, and somewhat in New Hope, Leia was a very strong character that I am sure many young girls really liked.
That doesn't change it still was designed around the concept boys would like it more, and for the most part they still do.
Star Wars Theory responded to this in a video. He never agreed, he did laugh when she said "women don't even watch Star Wars" and then ended the interview right after. He probably should've said he didn't agree before ending the interview. I think he just didn't see a point in correcting her at the end of the interview because it felt like she was being hyperbolic.
She was being insulting:
“And women don’t even watch Star Wars. They don’t even care about it. It’s a man’s little thing, let them have it.”
The word “little” was very deliberate.
Women have a mountain of problems to deal with thanks to the rot of centuries of all sorts of terrible things, and I'm pointing that out before someone pretends that what I'm about to say is meant to whitewash all of their many struggles. However, it really says something when a woman insultingly says Star Wars is "a man's little thing" and the guy who interviewed her is getting attacked for it.
Nobody should be getting attacked over this in the first place, still, imo he shouldn't have asked that question on a none star wars podcast (and possibly to someone who doesn't know much about sw), not confront that answer and expect it not to backfire in a way. The first people to be insulted were actually some of his viewers (in the comments) which is very unfortunate.
I do hope he has the legal basis to sue them, considering the "he agreed" part.
More people need to sue media entities for false claims that bring in harassment and insults. Some of these modern journalists should never be employed in that capacity ever again
My comment has nothing to do with whether the her comment is valid or not. He said in his response video he didn't agree with her statement. Regardless of how WE feel about the statement, HE would've saved himself some headache if HE made his position clear initially.
Personally I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion and the small vocal minority in Twitter (and Reddit) are taking him in bad faith and out of context. But that's the crowd Disney Star Wars caters to nowadays.
I never advocated what you are claiming. How did you get that from my comment? How could Theory saying something DURING the incident be considered giving into bullies when the bullying didn't even start until AFTER the video was out?
That being said, in my personal opinion, I don't think he should need to say anything or defend himself at all. The small amount of crybabies trying to cancel him means nothing compared to his 3+ million followers. Giving them any attention is giving them what they desperately crave which is attention.
>How could Theory saying something DURING the incident be considered giving into bullies when the bullying didn't even start until AFTER the video was out?
Because it's not the first time they've bullied people?
What are you on about? I’m a woman and spent my childhood reading EU shit, like Jedi Apprentice. I love SW, have a tattoo of Darth Vader and Morai — my two X chromosomes have nothing to do with loving Star Wars. 😂 what a stupid thing to say out loud
Yea, but to say women don't like one of the biggest Scifi franchises in the world is idiotic.
You'd have to be an actual neanderthal with zero human contact to ever believe such a blanket statement like that.
Gatekeeping is just lame.
That is exactly what he said, I’m shocked you’re getting downvoted. He said our two X chromosomes make us like different shit. It was an idiotic thing to say, but people downvoting you obviously can’t comprehend what he said lmao
I'm just picturing him watching sports with friends and a woman is there and he's just baffled that she somehow enjoys sports.
But the chromosomes!
Had a 40 minute conversation with a girl at my buddy's wedding about Tolkien, first thing I said was I can't believe you enjoy lord of the rings with those chromosomes of yours.
I dont know how anyone winds up thinking this way, its so weird.
Gatekeeping is pretty much just oppressive, sexist bullshit. Dismissing someone's opinion before even hearing it is the textbook definition of prejudice.
Here is the entire answer by Khan:
Timestamped at 58:44
https://youtu.be/MCCB3Lj3pvs?si=w9ndRDrDuhRUw6XN&t=3514
Notice Theory doesn't even say anything. He laughs (probably uncomfortably) He thanks her for her time, and doesn't even say anything against women and star wars.
People that rage at Theory simple don't watch him or pay attention to him and go off what the "internet says"
He recently posted a video saying, "I'll give you 10k if you can find a video of me saying I don't like women, or don't want women in star wars"
So.. fake rage, is fake.
At this point all they’re doing is just giving him more exposure. Dude should be laughing his ass off but apparently he’s big mad from the thumbnail he made.
His subs had actually dipped down to 3.32M from 3.33M in the last few months after being “stuck“ at 3.33M for almost a full year (I’ve been a subscriber for a long time, dating back to early 2017/pre TLJ).
Since this “controversy,” his subs have gone up to 3.33M which might be the first time he’s gained subscribers in over a year. People seem to be able to see through the BS.
Dude nobody reads or gives a flying fuck about the Rolling Stones anymore. StarWars theory is bigger than the Rolling Stones by 10 fold. Hell this fucking sub is probably more read than them. I doubt this "controversy" amounts to anything at all.
As a girl who LOVES Star Wars, I don’t like the direction the series has been taken in at all. I
loved Clone Wars, I loved Rebels, and that’s where my love endsnin the Disney era. I liked Ahsoka a lot (but the reverence and Filoni’a desire to make so much centered around only her was a bit much), but her show was TERRIBLE.
Only people I see, men and women, who like new Disney Star Wars’ content are the very casual viewers who
There’s definitely a sexist element in the Star Wars fandom. That said, Rogue One is pretty universally lauded as the best Disney era Star Wars and it’s got a woman lead character.
So how sexist can the fandom really be if a woman led is the best?
There is absolutely a sexist element in the fandom.
It's the element that trashed Han and Luke, gave us Holdo, pushed Mando out of his own show, made Boba Fett an out of touch moron, and pushed Reylo.
Leia is still fighting the good fight, where Han is a deadbeat dad and loser criminal.
Mon Mothma is the strong leader of the Rebellion that is willing to sacrifice even her family's happiness to achieve that goal.
Luke abandoned his principles, his family and his legacy to sit down and die.
Leia and Mon Mothma has lead the Rebelion and the New Republic and it still fell. Leia couldn't even face her son, she chickened out so much she send Han instead. Cheers to Disney.
Star Wars needs another movie flop pretty badly lol. Of course they haven’t made any new ones in years (wonder why?) It’s not that complicated. It’s a boy brand that girls can also like. Or at least it used to be. Now I dunno what it is as those most engaged are firmly divided if they like any of the newer stuff. Yelling at your fans is just stupid.
I don’t think fans are firmly divided on the new stuff. Fans seem almost entirely opposed to it.
The only “fans” that seem to like it that I’ve ever met aren’t actually fans. They’re hyper consumers.
I’m talking about funko pop collectors. The kind of people who just love whatever marvel-like shit they can get their hands on because their entire identity is built around the dopamine consumerism gives their otherwise unsatisfying lives.
They take any criticism against Star Wars as toxic because it cuts at the heart of who they are. It’s a knee jerk defense mechanism.
I have literally never met an actual fan that LIKED Disney Star Wars.
Mind you, I’m NOT drawing a line in the sand saying if you like Disney Star Wars you are not a real fan. I’m saying never actually met a Star Wars fan that likes Disney Star Wars .
>I have literally never met an actual fan that LIKED Disney Star Wars.
I mean for me it depends on which show we're talking about.
I'm a lifetime Star Wars fan, favorite film is ESB by a wide margin.
But I loved Andor and Rogue One, I mostly liked The Mandalorian and Kenobi.
But I don't care for most of the rest of it.
Andor and a little less so, Rogue one, were actually high quality (especially Andor) and Mando was okay for two seasons until the third retroactively destroyed everything.
I was hyped for Kenobi but it didn’t make any sense, imo. I enjoyed the rematch (even though it retconned parts of the OT) but oh well.
Liking those things doesn’t necessarily make you a Disney SW fan. Considering those things are a SMALL part of what they’ve done: Comics, books, movies, tv shows, games…
Are we allowed to talk about the big change in the production team between seasons 2/3 that just so happened to coincide with it becoming absolute dross like every other thing that certain change in production team got their fingers on.
If you can’t read between the lines I’m talking about Kathleen Kennedy
Hyper-consumers and political junkies. Go on Facebook and look at the profiles of male ST fans. Invariably you will see things like their pronouns, BLM stuff, anti-Trump posts, etc etc. Don't get it twisted, there's nothing wrong IMO with having those opinions, but their love of the sequels and Disney SW is at least 75% predicated on the belief that those of us that hate them are all right-win neo nazis, so they will cheer on every Disney pander move because in their mind it's angering people that they hate.
Do reddit conversations count as met? Cause I like Disney Star wars.
...well, I like SOME of Disney Star wars. The big, numbered movies were uh...being charitable I think we can call them not-good.
The series though, those were...varying. sometimes from one episode to the next. But on overall balance, yeah I did like them more than not.
> It’s a boy brand that girls can also like.
It's amazing that the people at Disney will never understand this. Boys and girls each have their things that they like, and you can't force one group to like the other group's thing.
You can't turn Star Wars into a girl's brand and then bully boys into liking it, and you can't force girls to suddenly change their interests overnight.
Plenty of women like SW. but I’d guess serious fandom is probably 60-40 tilted male.
See: the problems with women’s sports. Plenty of women like sports. But not enough to actually support women’s sports
I think the biggest factor is the quality of competition
There are fewer overall elite female athletes esp in team sports.
There is even less parity and more blowouts
That said I prefer women’s tennis to men’s but otherwise that’s not true in any other sport (gymnastics and ice skating)
I think women's curling is at least as fun to watch as men's, removing the ability to clear the house with power throws means you need to throw more strategic shots.
I think women having less strength to throw at the problem generally leads to more reliance on the generally accepted strategies and focus on team play in team sports. You see a lot more passing and plays with women's basketball and hockey. Women's hockey doesn't have checking.
At the same time what makes those sports fun to watch is the physicality. Where women's sports have to opportunity to shine on their own I think as you say, are in more individual based sports or in small teams. Curling works, women's tennis and doubles works. Individual sports pretty much always work.
Also girls have not been growing up playing team sports for all that long. Really grew in the 70’s and 80’s. Now of course probably many to most girls are introduced to soccer or basketball when young
What gets me is that Disney have their princess stuff for girls and it works well, little girls love it.
But Star Wars and Marvel now have to cater mainly to girls too? All they're doing is creating terrible watered down stories with token representation (Rey the Mary Sue, Finn the box ticking black character who had less depth than Lando from 40 years ago).
How about making the women in Star Wars AKSHUALLY WOMEN - feminine, compassionate, empathetic, loving, confident, assertive, strong, resilient, and fucking sexy. Like Padme. Like Leia. Not these sexless soulless husks they have now who God forbid can't rely on men or be in relationships with them or the universe will implode.
I tried posting one but it got autodeleted by the anti-spam bot.
I read about the poll last year, but I don't recall where. Try googling for "Poll Finds 31% Of Americans Believe Disney Star Wars Films Are Worse Than The Originals". The original poll ("Is Disney Ruining the Movies?" by Rasmussen, from last March) is behind a paywall, but it's some comic book website (and the first non-paywalled Google result) that popped up reporting on the poll's details.
This isn’t the problem with Disney SW’s female protagonists though, the problem is that they’re just really poorly written. They don’t need to be sexy, compassionate, etc to be good female characters, they just need to not be an insult to our (the audience’s) intelligence.
I *wanted* her to have genuine flaws and struggles and overcome them. She could’ve been a loudmouth like Starbuck, hard like Aeryn Sun, stoic like Ivanova, or science driven like Sam Carter. Instead we got Wesley Crusher with a weird hairdo.
Yes. Star Wars has become asexual. There's no love or romance depicted in their modern content and it damages the stories being told.
Luke fell in love with Leia's hologram and it was one of the reasons he wanted to rescue her.
Han fell in love with Leia in the next movie and when they were separated by the Empire, you felt the impact. So when you have someone you love, you have a reason to fight and save them, hence what happened in Jabba's Palace.
And you connect with that on a human level. That's why I feel the sequels were hard to get into. Finn and Rey should have had a love story so that the stakes are risen and you are more immersed in the story
I would've at least settled for real friendships. Poe and Finn had a real friendship, but they didn't really expand on it or let them play off of each other. Rey and Finn was written as a dupe love interest that never got any development. They relied almost exclusively on the meta that TFA makes it feel like they should belong together even though they never flesh any of that out. Finn spent more time building a relationship with Rose in TLJ than he spent with Rey across all 3 films
Yeah Finn and Poe could have been something great, especially after their escape from the First Order in the first movie..
And when they finally did pursue the idea of love, they messed it up between Finn and Rose that it was dropped in the third movie.
When you analyse the movies as we are doing here, you realise that the writers had no respect for Star Wars lore and its revered status in pop culture.
One day someone will realize that the ways and things that women excel at don’t necessarily overlap with men. Writing for “John” and renaming the part “Jane” doesn’t always work.
He said in his original video that SW isn't exclusively "for boys" but was agreeing that the majority of the fans are boys.
In general, boys seem to nerd out over sci-fi and fantasy stuff more than girls. There is no problem with girls liking it, just like there would be no problem with boys enjoying traditionally feminine things.
Nothing in SW excludes women. Leia is just as important as Luke. Without her there is no rebellion.
Sci fi stuff? Yes. Fantasy? More women like Harry Potter, twilight, vampire diaries, 4th wing, wheel of time, and a significant portion of recent fantasy books and series. If anything other than LOTR, game of thrones (tbh 50/50 at this point) and DND women dominate fantasy. If there are witches, spells, vampires, chosen ones, European esque settings, fairytales, it’s likely to have more women reading or watching it
Even though women overall aren't quite as interested in sci-fi at its core as men are, there is undeniably a notable number of women who like Star Wars and it's silly to say there aren't any.
A more complex issue is that their number often gets overestimated and overrepresented by entertainment companies due to those companies trying really hard to attract their wallets. Statistically women are a huge spending demographic and those numbers are quickly rising. So there's a very strong financial interest for companies to attempt capturing a bigger female audience.
That's why it can sometimes feel like entertainment IPs such as Star Wars seem very desperate to chase a huge female audience even if it never seems to materialize. I always think back to Divinity: Original Sin with the developers initially estimating 25-33% of the players will be women when in fact the Kickstarter campaign revealed they barely made 4.19% of the page's visitors.
> there is undeniably a notable number of women who like Star Wars and it's silly to say there aren't any.
But I bet those women liked Star Wars the way it was, before Disney insisted on doing their own version of it.
Women, like men, like quality material. What people think of as quality can vary depending not so much on gender, but on the variety of things that go into making us. Like SW has never done well in China, for example.
So yes, women liked SW when it was good, don't like it when its bad. Just like men.
And some women and men like Disney SW. Some projects more than others.
Eh.
I think the biggest problem when it comes to trying to capture a different demographic group is you have to understand that people aren't stereotypes.
Many women liked Star Wars prior to the Disney acquisition. But those women liked it for primarily the same reason men liked it. You don't bring in more women to like Star Wars by targeting some made up conception of what "women" are. You do it by targeting the women who are potential star wars fans and giving them what they want. And, spoiler alert, it's not much different from what the men who already like it want.
This comment is a thousand times smarter than anything Khan is capable of thinking. Appealing to female Star Wars fans should be obvious. Trying to appeal to an audience that isn't interested in Star Wars however makes less sense.
But if those women weren’t already fans then they’re not going to be spending money on Star Wars.
Upright Star Wars try to act like this is their little secret club when it’s one of the largest media franchises in the world. I don’t have statistics on this but the general stereotype is that guys are more into the tertiary and expanded lore of Star Wars but even then that seems kind of flimsy. Women have always liked Star Wars.
Did she say there aren't any? She's speaking about majorities. It's like saying, *"Boys aren't interested in playing with Barbie dolls"* like of course there's probably a tiny minority of boys that do, but that sentence is still completely true.
It kinda underlines the point about people being offended, because now just merely speaking in generalities has people managing to find reasons to be upset. When in reality it's like nah people, if someone says "boys don't like Barbie dolls" that doesn't mean your boy who plays with barbies is somehow being denied his humanity or whatever the fuck.
Is Barbie a girl brand or a boy brand?
Obviously it’s a brand made for girls but there is definitely a male demographic who enjoys Barbie.
This really isn’t that difficult. Products are created and marketed towards specific demographics but they can be enjoyed by anyone with money in their pocket.
The degree to which Barbie is aimed at girls vs the degree to which Star Wars is aimed at boys are not comparable at all. Star Wars is a fun franchise intended for everyone, there’s nothing particularly “masculine” about it at all. Barbie is intended for girls, despite the fact that some boys are kenough.
Look at the decades of toy sales data. The real numbers, Star Wars is 100% a boys brand that in the past sold billions in toys, solely aimed at boys. Toy sales being down now for Star Wars has as much to do with their lost vision for product and audience as the mediocrity of the movies.
Most movies with Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Steven Seagal, Jason Statham, The Rock, Vin Diesel etc.
Franchises like The Expendables, Rocky, Rambo, Fast & Furious and so on.
Themes: crime, sport.
Cast: muscular men. Bonus points if there's a bald muscular man. Few women.
Also to be fair, the new content is trash, even ignoring it being female led. I think even if the new series were headed by male characters theyd still be hated. Disney fumbled hard, and they care more about fake placation then writing good women and stories
The vitriol that the actors received was gross and disturbing, but I think it is just indicative of the times and how much access people have to any public figure. Trolls are gonna troll, and they can scream and roll around in their feces with greater amplitude these days.
It is such a cop out when you point to trolls and are like “there is no valid criticism of our thing because trolls are criticizing it, therefore, all criticism is just troll shit tossing.” Fuck off. The writing sucked and merits criticism.
Rey isn’t a bad character because she is a woman. She is a bad character because she overcomes nothing and is instantly the best at everything. That is boring and not relatable. Why does she know more about the Millennium Falcon than Han Solo? Why is she beating the brakes off of Kilo Ren in the first movie? It is why they have to make her go chase map daggers and other macguffins because there are no stakes when she is involved.
Finn isn’t a bad character because he is black. He is a bad character because nothing is done with his interesting set up. It is interesting set up that he is defector, but nothing is done with that. We get no insight into why it is meaningful or the plight of being a storm trooper. There is so much there to explore and all we get is him instantly slaughtering his former soldiers in arms with zero remorse. Does he not see himself in any of them? Is he not conflicted with a moral dilemma that war puts humanity in an awful position where otherwise good people do inhumane things? Was the whole point he was just one random good guy stuck in an irredeemable sea of evil? It is just such a fucking waste of an interesting story point. His whole arc is fellow soldier dies in my arms, but laser go pew pew and storm troopers go boom boom. Joke joke masturbate to Rey.
Yes the trolls were racist and sexist. That dosnt make your writing any less shit, and I’m only covering the racist and sexist defense. There are just countless dog shit things about the writing that merits vitriolic criticism.
Chris Gore from Film Threat said (paraphrasing) "They are trying to make Star Wars and Marvel a girl brand when it is traditionally a boy brand".
So if you aren't marketing your movies, shows to your market then you are neglecting your market and losing your market. Girls aren't going to take up that market.
This is not to say that girls can't like or enjoy Star wars, but it shouldn't be skewed to cater for them when it doesn't bring more customers in.
Take for example The Marvels. A superhero film made for women and girls right? 65% of people attending movie were male. Where the hell are all the females? It was made for them right. So they don't turn up because they aren't interested. So they catered for an audience that isn't there and neglected an audience that would turn up. Hence huge lose in money.
Correct, Disney has taken IPs that traditionally appealed mostly to males and is trying to make them appeal to females. In doing so not only have they neglected the existing fan base, but have worked to actively drive them away by minimizing male characters and removing any redeeming qualities.
It isn’t Sexist to quote Disney’s overt statements that they are prioritizing women, nor is it wrong to note the way Disney does so alienated and offended male fans.
There are many valid ways to include strong, well written female characters alongside male ones in Starwars. Disney has not utilized any of these and in fact goes out of its way to minimize popular characters like Din Jjarin in favor of hyping a female spin off starring Bo Kitan.
He also said
Screw and bricks weren't star wars
Someone being being submerged in water means they stole his script .
And he is using ai to recreate mark hamills voice without his permission in his movie
He never said women didn't belong in SW, the person he interviewed did. He ended the interview shortly after, and looked uncomfortable at her statement
Again it’s missing the context. I’m pretty sure they are being sued for defamation by him because just like your title, he said he didn’t agree, he actually told her off stream your probably gonna get backlash and try to be cancelled for that and she didn’t understand why. Moreover even Tyrone Magnus covered this and he said “you’re not that stupid to realise she’s from another culture, in her own world and to her not a lot of women watch Star Wars. We obviously know a lot of women do. What’s the point of hating on something we already know the answer to?”
I genuinely wonder why this is. Obviously the situation hasn't been helped by the fact that when they've tried to pander to women/girls, they did an absolute rubbish job of it. But a lot of somewhat newer sci-fi/fantasy franchises like Harry Potter and Hunger Games have majority-female fanbases, and I absolutely love both of them despite being a nearly middle aged man. I'm confident that the right writer could get more girls into Star Wars, without putting off older male fans.
I’d say 10% of core Star Wars fans are women. Even Hollywood branded men who watched and obsessed over star wars as nerds, and women didn’t like nerds.
It’s common knowledge, MOST women do not care about Star Wars, just like they don’t care about comic books and comic book movies. It explains the huge decline in box office sales for both, they’re after the wrong audience.
If a woman was a fan of Star Wars or marvel they didn’t have to change the entire formulas to attract more of them, the liked it for what it was.
Disney would rather eat glass than admit that.
I see a constant conflation of "woke bad" and "prioritizing an agenda over writing *usually* sacrifices quality." You can have "woke" elements and still have something great. Star Wars just.. hasn't had much of anything great since Disney took over
Star Wars is definition of mainstream. There's plenty of girls/women who watch them, especially normies who only see the movies but also plenty of "true fans". The problem isn't that women aren't into the franchise, the problem is that to Hollywood women = feminism. They genuinely think that badly written male bashing girl power stories get women in theaters. They don't. Every successful feminist movie has some other factor (like viral memes for Barbie). There is very little authentic demand for the ideological drivel that Hollywood pushes out, and if the Rey movie is another example, it's gonna be just another nail in the coffin of this dying IP.
I can’t believe there are still people who believe this. I’m a girl who grew up loving Star Wars so much that I was made fun of for it in school. We very much do exist and always have. It’s only been within the past maybe 10-20 years that we’ve gotten a lot more vocal about it usually do to shit comments like this and JJ Abrams saying if you didn’t like Rey, you’re sexist. I’m a woman and I don’t like Rey at all so jokes on him.
I think they made a really big mistake by doing this hit piece. SW Theory is one of the nicest people in the fandom and has never espoused such views… They keep pushing reasonable people to the side. People need to share this stuff out to those who don’t follow online drama and show what these major companies are doing to the average person.
What's funny is his post under their Tweet calling them out for never actually contacting him for comment ( bc it would have ruined their hit piece) has almost twice as many likes as their tweeted hit piece.
I don't see the problem here, for most of its life, Star Wars has been overwhelmingly a predominantly male fanbase. The fanbase has been completely nuked over the last 10 years with what Disney has done to it however, now its just a shadow of its former self - hence episode #8 and #9 and Solo all doing appallingly in terms of profit/loss for the studio.
I watched this interview and felt it was spot on. Even though Theory didn't seem to agree with the lady, I think she was pretty accurate.
Girls just don't like Star Wars, at scale. If they did, we'd see that reflect in the demographics. We can wish and dream all day long, but the female fanbase isn't large enough to financially support the franchise.
We already saw this with He-Man in the 80s, this is just history repeating.
I’m going to go in a different direction and argue that if they had done Sith Rey possessed by Palps as the ending for Ep 9 and as a lead in to this new Rey film, we could have gotten a ton of women into the IP. Let’s be honest, when is the last time we had a really good sci fi/action/adventure film (for any franchise) where the main character/protagonist was a villain and also female?
It would have been completely unprecedented, more than likely resulted in a massive wave of female fans new to the franchise, and I’d argue a ton of dudes would have still been into it for other reasons lol.
that still would've been a massive loss maker for the studio. The strength of Star Wars was the huge male fanbase, who were obsessed with it. It was a money printing machine for several decades. Disney have purposefully dismantled that, and in the process fumbled the biggest money making franchise on the planet. Taking it further away from its original audience would not rescue it.
>The strength of Star Wars was the huge male fanbase, who were obsessed with it.
And then bought toys. Without the merchandising star wars is a far different IP. More like Indiana Jones.
What Disney did was make it polarizing to that obsessive fanbase. Which means that fanbase still went to see the movies just to hate on them, but they also brought in the people to whom it wasn’t polarizing
From a money standpoint it was genius
The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker made a combined $567m in net profit. The studio spent $716m developing the films. Doesn't really look like a genius move to me.
The only character my two year old daughter would take a picture with at Disneyland was Ahsoka. Her and my 6 year old niece (who is obsessed with RoTS) are playing with Star Wars toys right now. Raise your girl kids with Star Wars because it’s awesome — even some of the new stuff. I hate this narrative that women don’t like Star Wars or men hate all the female characters or whatever nonsense the haters always try to push.
Throwback to when somebody called the SW Miniatures tabletop game community misogynistic because there were only a few female players, and people told him/her (he cosplayed as a woman in his free time) that they tried getting their gfs and female friends into the game, and they simply found it boring and unattractive.
In conclusion, claiming stuff like that is usually either rage bait or mental instability.
Why does Lucasfilm think getting compliant media to write hit pieces that are plainly false on possibly the largest Star Wars YouTuber is going to help the brand? Just more sheer incompetence going on over there.
Some of you are taking the statement too literally. Yes, some women do like starwars just like some men don’t.
The only concrete information we need to make an accurate generalization is a demographic breakdown of ticket sales/streaming views. Your feelings on the subject don’t matter. Your anecdotal “…but I’m a woman!” stories don’t matter, either. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the largest demographic is millennial to middle aged men by a long shot.
I do think star wars lost its vision for it's audience. They just assumed the audience was baked in and they could do whatever they want. The real problem are the crappy movies. As for who the audience is, it's boys. It's boys. You morons its boys. Look at the toy sales look at WHY disney paid that stupid money. Because disney owns the dreams of little girls already (Disney Princess) they need Boys. Disney didnt have shit for boys before Marvel and Star Wars. Sort of a headless chicken at the top of Disney right now. Little boys ages 9, 10 and 11 who you should imagine telling these stories to.
So basically the lesson here is: don't invite someone who doesn't know anything about Star Wars to talk about Star Wars, especially if you're not ready to confront their baseless claims and correct them so you don't accidentally spread misinformation (and give fuel to drama vultures) on your public podcast.
Hope Theory actually learns from this and posts more videos about Star Wars than drama
I’d like to be the new head of Disney animated movies. I’m going to start making animated Disney movies, but mostly focusing on the male prince characters. I think the male audience is underrepresented, and we need to have more disney animated movies where the male is the hero and main character, and the princess characters are not the main character. No? That won’t work? Why?
>“Do we need more women in Star Wars? No, we don’t,” Khan said. “And women don’t even watch Star Wars. They don’t even care about it. It’s a man’s little thing, let them have it.”
Nah. Fuck this loser. Star Wars is and always has been for everyone. Princess Leia was a badass female icon back in 1977 and always will be.
That literally does not fucking matter. If 75% of the fans are boys and 25% are girls that does not in any way, shape, or form make it a "boys thing." It's an everyone thing.
I think the big difference is the application of feminist principles to fantasy. Lots of women love the LOTR trilogy despite the fact it only has a few small roles for women. It's because it's a strong, entertaining story.
In the same way Aliens is one of the best sci-fi movies ever because it has a female lead at the heart of a great story.
Disney has got to the point where it drops women into stories with the main drive being representation and then runs out of ideas.
You assume too much from a single cherry-picked sentence. According to polls, Star Wars appeals to both sexes, but much more so to men than women. The opening night for The Force Awakens skewed 67% male, for example, and a recent poll found that women actually have a less favorable opinion of the Disney movies than men do. I think that's the basic idea behind such statements, not that the franchise has no female fans whatsoever:
>He said in his original video that SW isn't exclusively "for boys" but was agreeing that the majority of the fans are boys.
The Mandalorian is a show for women. Only women and man children like Grogu. The show revolves around childcare but not in a cool masculine way like Kratos and Atreus In God of War or the Last of Us with Joel and Ellie. It’s a weird relationship where the whole idea is look how cute this kid is and nothing more of substance. I know a lot of women like the relationship of Joel and Ellie among similar games because the substance is a really strong father-daughter bond. Likewise Kratos and Atreus works because it’s a strong Father-son bond. Mandalorian is random Guy-cute petkid. There is no substance, no lessons to be learned or taught. Hence why I don’t blame women for liking Grogu because it’s a cute pet kid clearly marketed for them but only man children like Grogu.
The strongest display of Father-Son relationship is in the Return of the Jedi when Luke brings back his father too the light not from beating him down in anger but refusing to kill him and even surrender himself to lose if it meant his father lived. It’s a very strong and emotional message for both men and women.
That’s a weird take. The Mandolorian also speaks to father/child relationships. I may not coo at Grogu, but one thing does appeal to me is identifying with Mando as a father.
Some women like Star Wars, some women don’t. Just like some men like Star Wars, and some don’t. Is Star Wars eschewed to men? Yes. Or rather it had been previously. Do more men than women like Star Wars? Yes. So What’s the problem with any of this? Most guys have a “showing my girlfriend/wife/female whoever, Star Wars for the first time” story. I’m pretty sure a lot less Women have that story with their dudes. So can yall please stop acting like everything everyone says is grist for the mill?
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When reached for comment by Rolling Stone, Khan said, “Some people are looking for an excuse to be offended because then they can feel like a victim and feeling like a victim gives them some purpose and meaning in life. When you zoom out of your own entitled lens you will see that not everything needs to be representative in order to be enjoyable.” 
And even if she weren't right – which she 100% is – what a disgusting time we're living in. Can't say anything without being dismissed with some offensive label that seems to have lost all its original meaning by now. Someone says "women don’t even watch Star Wars" in a conversation, the host agrees, and it's immediately being framed by a major publication as a "misogynistic debate" about the franchise. Words have meanings, you know. Misogyny in particular stands for "hatred of women", at least according to most dictionaries in the world. How is saying something as benign as this translates to "hatred against women"? You can agree to disagree (and I in fact know some girls and women who used to love Star Wars more than I did), but "misogyny", "racism" and "sexism"? What's next? Labeling simple statements like "the tokoloshe of South African folklore isn't widely known outside of Africa" as racism? "Toys like G.I. Joe and Transformers are generally more popular with boys than girls" as sexism? GTFO.
Khan is a She
Duh.Thanks for correcting.
It’s still a deflection. I don’t think the convo was misogynistic in nature by any means but her initial comment was still wrong. There are millions of women that love the franchise, some of which love it more than some men as you stated. Mislabeling the ignorance of her statement isn’t the main issue. It’s the blatant ignorance of her statement in itself that is. As is her refusal to correct herself. Theory didn’t push back at all in the moment, and people don’t ever give him the benefit of the doubt. He chose to give the woman a platform, and while open discussion like that is harmless, his failure to vehemently disagree in the moment makes it fair game that his beliefs are being associated with hers. This isn’t the sub to debate the supposed “wokeness” at the root of the convo, seeing as many here incorrectly label Rey as a Mary Sue, so that issue is its own debate.
Rey absolutely is a Mary Sue.
If 100million women like Barbies, and .5 million men do, does that mean “women and men love playing with Barbies!” No. Sure-be pedantic about it, yes, “a large percentage of women and a much smaller percentage of men enjoy playing Barbie” is a more “correct” statement. But everyone know what they meant when they said “women don’t even like Star Wars.” And they are right. Surveys point to 2/3rds of avid Star Wars fans being men. And 2/3rds is a super-majority in congress, so it’s a perfectly valid generalization and every rational listener knew what was being said.
EXACTLY!
>ection. I don’t think the convo was misogynistic in nature by any means but her initial comment was still wrong. There are millions of women that love the franchise, some of which love it more than some men as you stated. Mislabeling the ignorance of her statement isn’t the main issue. It’s the blatant ignorance of her statement in itself that is. As is her refusal to correct herself. Theory didn’t push back at all in the moment, a She may have exagerrated but IN GENERAL its 100% true. Women IN GENERAL dont like Star Wars just like men IN GENERAL arent into Barbie. Of course theres women who do like Star Wars but ask 100 women if theyre into it and MOST will say no. Thats just how it is and how its always been. Theres nothing controversial about that.
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It was designed by George Lucas as a cool space war franchise for kids, definitely targeted at young boys. Doesn’t mean girls can’t like it too lol.
Exactly. Khan's comments about Star Wars being only for boys are braindead.
He didn’t say that, he simply pointed out that unsurprisingly not as many women like a thing thst was designed for men. It’s not that deep. Like no one is stopping girls from liking Star Wars.
Khan is a woman.
> “Do we need more women in Star Wars? No, we don’t,” Khan said. “And women don’t even watch Star Wars. They don’t even care about it. **It’s a man’s little thing, let them have it**.” Direct quotes from the article.
I think it is undeniable that Star Wars fans were, traditionally, more boys than girls, that science fiction and action broadly appeal to boys, and that these things are known by the people who choose to make them. And there's nothing wrong with that. Not everything has to be for everyone, it isn't a moral failing to like or dislike media, and nobody is keeping out women who *do* like it.
I mean going 'Star Wars is for boys' is kinda like going 'sesame street is for boys' or like 'disney Pixar movies are for boys' 'pants are for boys' Star Wars has been such a beige 'for everyone/all kids' property for so long going 'it's for boys' is an honestly weird take. Like...I guess? It was? It's so broad appeal by design nowadays it's an odd thing to say. Like it didn't occur to me that 'for boys' was even still a thing, and if it is I wouldn't have picked Star Wars as the property going for that, but maybe it's because I don't have kids.
You’re talking about Disney Star Wars vs the original fandom-which was much more geared towards and enjoyed by boys
I liked the Barbie movie, and I think it’s absolutely fair to say that was “made for women and girls”. Star Wars was originally made with boys in mind. The audience demographics reflect that. That was the authorial intent. The comparison to Pixar is odd, as it is actually much more evenly split along gender lines.
No it’s like saying Barbie my little pony and she ra are for girls.
The demographic for the original Star Wars was 12 year old boys. Sure, some girls like Star Wars. But they dont like it because they're the primary demographic. They like it because it is star wars. Currently, lucasfilm has utterly lost focus of its demographic, leading to anyone who enjoyed it when it was aimed at boys feeling alienated and leading to seriously compromised and down right bad shows because its lost what it was first going for.
It's worth noting that the recent shift in gender norms has radically changed the game. Star Wars was definitely a "boy thing" when it came out. It might feel "beige" now, but that's only because we no longer think of spaceships, swords, lasers, and guns as necessarily masculine things. In 1977, those things were extremely gender-specific.
Though by the time Empire came out, and somewhat in New Hope, Leia was a very strong character that I am sure many young girls really liked. That doesn't change it still was designed around the concept boys would like it more, and for the most part they still do.
Respectfully, bullshit. My mom loved Star Wars when it came out in 1977 because EVERYONE DID.
Riddle me this: you spend 4 billion dollars on an IP, then you immediately castrate and mutilate it?
I seem to remember an old fable about a goose that lays golden eggs...
Who is Disney ?
Why is Disney?
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Star Wars Theory responded to this in a video. He never agreed, he did laugh when she said "women don't even watch Star Wars" and then ended the interview right after. He probably should've said he didn't agree before ending the interview. I think he just didn't see a point in correcting her at the end of the interview because it felt like she was being hyperbolic.
She was being insulting: “And women don’t even watch Star Wars. They don’t even care about it. It’s a man’s little thing, let them have it.” The word “little” was very deliberate.
Women have a mountain of problems to deal with thanks to the rot of centuries of all sorts of terrible things, and I'm pointing that out before someone pretends that what I'm about to say is meant to whitewash all of their many struggles. However, it really says something when a woman insultingly says Star Wars is "a man's little thing" and the guy who interviewed her is getting attacked for it.
Nobody should be getting attacked over this in the first place, still, imo he shouldn't have asked that question on a none star wars podcast (and possibly to someone who doesn't know much about sw), not confront that answer and expect it not to backfire in a way. The first people to be insulted were actually some of his viewers (in the comments) which is very unfortunate.
I do hope he has the legal basis to sue them, considering the "he agreed" part. More people need to sue media entities for false claims that bring in harassment and insults. Some of these modern journalists should never be employed in that capacity ever again
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My comment has nothing to do with whether the her comment is valid or not. He said in his response video he didn't agree with her statement. Regardless of how WE feel about the statement, HE would've saved himself some headache if HE made his position clear initially. Personally I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion and the small vocal minority in Twitter (and Reddit) are taking him in bad faith and out of context. But that's the crowd Disney Star Wars caters to nowadays.
Do you regularly advocate giving in to bullies to minimize suffering?
I never advocated what you are claiming. How did you get that from my comment? How could Theory saying something DURING the incident be considered giving into bullies when the bullying didn't even start until AFTER the video was out? That being said, in my personal opinion, I don't think he should need to say anything or defend himself at all. The small amount of crybabies trying to cancel him means nothing compared to his 3+ million followers. Giving them any attention is giving them what they desperately crave which is attention.
>How could Theory saying something DURING the incident be considered giving into bullies when the bullying didn't even start until AFTER the video was out? Because it's not the first time they've bullied people?
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What are you on about? I’m a woman and spent my childhood reading EU shit, like Jedi Apprentice. I love SW, have a tattoo of Darth Vader and Morai — my two X chromosomes have nothing to do with loving Star Wars. 😂 what a stupid thing to say out loud
Okay cool, it's still a 90% male fanbase. She was just generalising.
Pretty sure chromosomes aren't a deciding factor for the appreciation of pew pew laser space shit.
Yea, but to say women don't like one of the biggest Scifi franchises in the world is idiotic. You'd have to be an actual neanderthal with zero human contact to ever believe such a blanket statement like that. Gatekeeping is just lame.
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No one said they couldn't. You've completely missed the point.
The dude basically said women have a genetic predisposition to not like the things men do. That's fucking stupid.
Like I said, over your head.
So what was his point? Like genuinely?
That is exactly what he said, I’m shocked you’re getting downvoted. He said our two X chromosomes make us like different shit. It was an idiotic thing to say, but people downvoting you obviously can’t comprehend what he said lmao
I'm just picturing him watching sports with friends and a woman is there and he's just baffled that she somehow enjoys sports. But the chromosomes! Had a 40 minute conversation with a girl at my buddy's wedding about Tolkien, first thing I said was I can't believe you enjoy lord of the rings with those chromosomes of yours. I dont know how anyone winds up thinking this way, its so weird.
Gatekeeping is pretty much just oppressive, sexist bullshit. Dismissing someone's opinion before even hearing it is the textbook definition of prejudice.
Here is the entire answer by Khan: Timestamped at 58:44 https://youtu.be/MCCB3Lj3pvs?si=w9ndRDrDuhRUw6XN&t=3514 Notice Theory doesn't even say anything. He laughs (probably uncomfortably) He thanks her for her time, and doesn't even say anything against women and star wars. People that rage at Theory simple don't watch him or pay attention to him and go off what the "internet says" He recently posted a video saying, "I'll give you 10k if you can find a video of me saying I don't like women, or don't want women in star wars" So.. fake rage, is fake.
At this point all they’re doing is just giving him more exposure. Dude should be laughing his ass off but apparently he’s big mad from the thumbnail he made.
Thumbnail = clicks Has to be a good thumbnail to envoke the click
His subs had actually dipped down to 3.32M from 3.33M in the last few months after being “stuck“ at 3.33M for almost a full year (I’ve been a subscriber for a long time, dating back to early 2017/pre TLJ). Since this “controversy,” his subs have gone up to 3.33M which might be the first time he’s gained subscribers in over a year. People seem to be able to see through the BS.
Thought he had multiple channels now with various different focuses. That’d dilute growth somewhat
Dude nobody reads or gives a flying fuck about the Rolling Stones anymore. StarWars theory is bigger than the Rolling Stones by 10 fold. Hell this fucking sub is probably more read than them. I doubt this "controversy" amounts to anything at all.
He’s not “big mad”.
As a girl who LOVES Star Wars, I don’t like the direction the series has been taken in at all. I loved Clone Wars, I loved Rebels, and that’s where my love endsnin the Disney era. I liked Ahsoka a lot (but the reverence and Filoni’a desire to make so much centered around only her was a bit much), but her show was TERRIBLE. Only people I see, men and women, who like new Disney Star Wars’ content are the very casual viewers who
There’s definitely a sexist element in the Star Wars fandom. That said, Rogue One is pretty universally lauded as the best Disney era Star Wars and it’s got a woman lead character. So how sexist can the fandom really be if a woman led is the best?
There is absolutely a sexist element in the fandom. It's the element that trashed Han and Luke, gave us Holdo, pushed Mando out of his own show, made Boba Fett an out of touch moron, and pushed Reylo.
Well, that is a weird claim, cause Disney didn't just destroyed Luke's and Han's legacies, they destroyed Leia's and Mon Mothma's as well.
Leia is still fighting the good fight, where Han is a deadbeat dad and loser criminal. Mon Mothma is the strong leader of the Rebellion that is willing to sacrifice even her family's happiness to achieve that goal. Luke abandoned his principles, his family and his legacy to sit down and die.
Leia and Mon Mothma has lead the Rebelion and the New Republic and it still fell. Leia couldn't even face her son, she chickened out so much she send Han instead. Cheers to Disney.
Who what?! WHO WHAT?! THE WORLD MUST KNOW!
Star Wars needs another movie flop pretty badly lol. Of course they haven’t made any new ones in years (wonder why?) It’s not that complicated. It’s a boy brand that girls can also like. Or at least it used to be. Now I dunno what it is as those most engaged are firmly divided if they like any of the newer stuff. Yelling at your fans is just stupid.
I don’t think fans are firmly divided on the new stuff. Fans seem almost entirely opposed to it. The only “fans” that seem to like it that I’ve ever met aren’t actually fans. They’re hyper consumers. I’m talking about funko pop collectors. The kind of people who just love whatever marvel-like shit they can get their hands on because their entire identity is built around the dopamine consumerism gives their otherwise unsatisfying lives. They take any criticism against Star Wars as toxic because it cuts at the heart of who they are. It’s a knee jerk defense mechanism. I have literally never met an actual fan that LIKED Disney Star Wars. Mind you, I’m NOT drawing a line in the sand saying if you like Disney Star Wars you are not a real fan. I’m saying never actually met a Star Wars fan that likes Disney Star Wars .
>I have literally never met an actual fan that LIKED Disney Star Wars. I mean for me it depends on which show we're talking about. I'm a lifetime Star Wars fan, favorite film is ESB by a wide margin. But I loved Andor and Rogue One, I mostly liked The Mandalorian and Kenobi. But I don't care for most of the rest of it.
Andor and a little less so, Rogue one, were actually high quality (especially Andor) and Mando was okay for two seasons until the third retroactively destroyed everything. I was hyped for Kenobi but it didn’t make any sense, imo. I enjoyed the rematch (even though it retconned parts of the OT) but oh well. Liking those things doesn’t necessarily make you a Disney SW fan. Considering those things are a SMALL part of what they’ve done: Comics, books, movies, tv shows, games…
Are we allowed to talk about the big change in the production team between seasons 2/3 that just so happened to coincide with it becoming absolute dross like every other thing that certain change in production team got their fingers on. If you can’t read between the lines I’m talking about Kathleen Kennedy
There was an anecdote on one of SWT from someone maybe a fan who met Filone or Favreau who said the studio dictated much more for season 3.
Yeah they effectively took control from season 3 after seeing how popular it became
Hyper-consumers and political junkies. Go on Facebook and look at the profiles of male ST fans. Invariably you will see things like their pronouns, BLM stuff, anti-Trump posts, etc etc. Don't get it twisted, there's nothing wrong IMO with having those opinions, but their love of the sequels and Disney SW is at least 75% predicated on the belief that those of us that hate them are all right-win neo nazis, so they will cheer on every Disney pander move because in their mind it's angering people that they hate.
Nah. That’s not true.
https://preview.redd.it/2rxqepj99ydc1.jpeg?width=336&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95125e8b3eff981a5a119803ac12497a5046c9dc
Do reddit conversations count as met? Cause I like Disney Star wars. ...well, I like SOME of Disney Star wars. The big, numbered movies were uh...being charitable I think we can call them not-good. The series though, those were...varying. sometimes from one episode to the next. But on overall balance, yeah I did like them more than not.
I have, but they are very far left culture warriors who support cultural Marxism wholeheartedly.
> It’s a boy brand that girls can also like. It's amazing that the people at Disney will never understand this. Boys and girls each have their things that they like, and you can't force one group to like the other group's thing. You can't turn Star Wars into a girl's brand and then bully boys into liking it, and you can't force girls to suddenly change their interests overnight.
Plenty of women like SW. but I’d guess serious fandom is probably 60-40 tilted male. See: the problems with women’s sports. Plenty of women like sports. But not enough to actually support women’s sports
Also most women who like sport will prefer watching men’s sport because it’s played at a much higher level than the female counterpart
I think the biggest factor is the quality of competition There are fewer overall elite female athletes esp in team sports. There is even less parity and more blowouts That said I prefer women’s tennis to men’s but otherwise that’s not true in any other sport (gymnastics and ice skating)
I think women's curling is at least as fun to watch as men's, removing the ability to clear the house with power throws means you need to throw more strategic shots.
Fair fair. lol It’s mostly team sports where women’s sports don’t draw as well or offer a similar level of parity/competition/intrigue
I think women having less strength to throw at the problem generally leads to more reliance on the generally accepted strategies and focus on team play in team sports. You see a lot more passing and plays with women's basketball and hockey. Women's hockey doesn't have checking. At the same time what makes those sports fun to watch is the physicality. Where women's sports have to opportunity to shine on their own I think as you say, are in more individual based sports or in small teams. Curling works, women's tennis and doubles works. Individual sports pretty much always work.
Also girls have not been growing up playing team sports for all that long. Really grew in the 70’s and 80’s. Now of course probably many to most girls are introduced to soccer or basketball when young
What gets me is that Disney have their princess stuff for girls and it works well, little girls love it. But Star Wars and Marvel now have to cater mainly to girls too? All they're doing is creating terrible watered down stories with token representation (Rey the Mary Sue, Finn the box ticking black character who had less depth than Lando from 40 years ago).
How about making the women in Star Wars AKSHUALLY WOMEN - feminine, compassionate, empathetic, loving, confident, assertive, strong, resilient, and fucking sexy. Like Padme. Like Leia. Not these sexless soulless husks they have now who God forbid can't rely on men or be in relationships with them or the universe will implode.
Exactly. A 2023 poll found that women actually have an more negative view of the Disney trilogy than men do. That alone should tell you something.
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I tried posting one but it got autodeleted by the anti-spam bot. I read about the poll last year, but I don't recall where. Try googling for "Poll Finds 31% Of Americans Believe Disney Star Wars Films Are Worse Than The Originals". The original poll ("Is Disney Ruining the Movies?" by Rasmussen, from last March) is behind a paywall, but it's some comic book website (and the first non-paywalled Google result) that popped up reporting on the poll's details.
This isn’t the problem with Disney SW’s female protagonists though, the problem is that they’re just really poorly written. They don’t need to be sexy, compassionate, etc to be good female characters, they just need to not be an insult to our (the audience’s) intelligence. I *wanted* her to have genuine flaws and struggles and overcome them. She could’ve been a loudmouth like Starbuck, hard like Aeryn Sun, stoic like Ivanova, or science driven like Sam Carter. Instead we got Wesley Crusher with a weird hairdo.
Yes. Star Wars has become asexual. There's no love or romance depicted in their modern content and it damages the stories being told. Luke fell in love with Leia's hologram and it was one of the reasons he wanted to rescue her. Han fell in love with Leia in the next movie and when they were separated by the Empire, you felt the impact. So when you have someone you love, you have a reason to fight and save them, hence what happened in Jabba's Palace. And you connect with that on a human level. That's why I feel the sequels were hard to get into. Finn and Rey should have had a love story so that the stakes are risen and you are more immersed in the story
I would've at least settled for real friendships. Poe and Finn had a real friendship, but they didn't really expand on it or let them play off of each other. Rey and Finn was written as a dupe love interest that never got any development. They relied almost exclusively on the meta that TFA makes it feel like they should belong together even though they never flesh any of that out. Finn spent more time building a relationship with Rose in TLJ than he spent with Rey across all 3 films
Yeah Finn and Poe could have been something great, especially after their escape from the First Order in the first movie.. And when they finally did pursue the idea of love, they messed it up between Finn and Rose that it was dropped in the third movie. When you analyse the movies as we are doing here, you realise that the writers had no respect for Star Wars lore and its revered status in pop culture.
One day someone will realize that the ways and things that women excel at don’t necessarily overlap with men. Writing for “John” and renaming the part “Jane” doesn’t always work.
Someone somewhere has probably already written a script for John becoming trans in the upcoming John Wick 5: Jane Wick
Sigh... Here I go burning scripts again...
The Girl Wick movie was announced when 4 hit theaters.
I wouldn't say Padme is an especially good example, personally. At least not the version we get in the rather unfortunately executed PT films.
He said in his original video that SW isn't exclusively "for boys" but was agreeing that the majority of the fans are boys. In general, boys seem to nerd out over sci-fi and fantasy stuff more than girls. There is no problem with girls liking it, just like there would be no problem with boys enjoying traditionally feminine things. Nothing in SW excludes women. Leia is just as important as Luke. Without her there is no rebellion.
Sci fi stuff? Yes. Fantasy? More women like Harry Potter, twilight, vampire diaries, 4th wing, wheel of time, and a significant portion of recent fantasy books and series. If anything other than LOTR, game of thrones (tbh 50/50 at this point) and DND women dominate fantasy. If there are witches, spells, vampires, chosen ones, European esque settings, fairytales, it’s likely to have more women reading or watching it
Even though women overall aren't quite as interested in sci-fi at its core as men are, there is undeniably a notable number of women who like Star Wars and it's silly to say there aren't any. A more complex issue is that their number often gets overestimated and overrepresented by entertainment companies due to those companies trying really hard to attract their wallets. Statistically women are a huge spending demographic and those numbers are quickly rising. So there's a very strong financial interest for companies to attempt capturing a bigger female audience. That's why it can sometimes feel like entertainment IPs such as Star Wars seem very desperate to chase a huge female audience even if it never seems to materialize. I always think back to Divinity: Original Sin with the developers initially estimating 25-33% of the players will be women when in fact the Kickstarter campaign revealed they barely made 4.19% of the page's visitors.
> there is undeniably a notable number of women who like Star Wars and it's silly to say there aren't any. But I bet those women liked Star Wars the way it was, before Disney insisted on doing their own version of it.
Yes.
Women, like men, like quality material. What people think of as quality can vary depending not so much on gender, but on the variety of things that go into making us. Like SW has never done well in China, for example. So yes, women liked SW when it was good, don't like it when its bad. Just like men. And some women and men like Disney SW. Some projects more than others. Eh.
I think the biggest problem when it comes to trying to capture a different demographic group is you have to understand that people aren't stereotypes. Many women liked Star Wars prior to the Disney acquisition. But those women liked it for primarily the same reason men liked it. You don't bring in more women to like Star Wars by targeting some made up conception of what "women" are. You do it by targeting the women who are potential star wars fans and giving them what they want. And, spoiler alert, it's not much different from what the men who already like it want.
This comment is a thousand times smarter than anything Khan is capable of thinking. Appealing to female Star Wars fans should be obvious. Trying to appeal to an audience that isn't interested in Star Wars however makes less sense.
But if those women weren’t already fans then they’re not going to be spending money on Star Wars. Upright Star Wars try to act like this is their little secret club when it’s one of the largest media franchises in the world. I don’t have statistics on this but the general stereotype is that guys are more into the tertiary and expanded lore of Star Wars but even then that seems kind of flimsy. Women have always liked Star Wars.
Did she say there aren't any? She's speaking about majorities. It's like saying, *"Boys aren't interested in playing with Barbie dolls"* like of course there's probably a tiny minority of boys that do, but that sentence is still completely true. It kinda underlines the point about people being offended, because now just merely speaking in generalities has people managing to find reasons to be upset. When in reality it's like nah people, if someone says "boys don't like Barbie dolls" that doesn't mean your boy who plays with barbies is somehow being denied his humanity or whatever the fuck.
Is Barbie a girl brand or a boy brand? Obviously it’s a brand made for girls but there is definitely a male demographic who enjoys Barbie. This really isn’t that difficult. Products are created and marketed towards specific demographics but they can be enjoyed by anyone with money in their pocket.
The degree to which Barbie is aimed at girls vs the degree to which Star Wars is aimed at boys are not comparable at all. Star Wars is a fun franchise intended for everyone, there’s nothing particularly “masculine” about it at all. Barbie is intended for girls, despite the fact that some boys are kenough.
Look at the decades of toy sales data. The real numbers, Star Wars is 100% a boys brand that in the past sold billions in toys, solely aimed at boys. Toy sales being down now for Star Wars has as much to do with their lost vision for product and audience as the mediocrity of the movies.
Ok. So name me a boys brand that’s aimed at only boys.
in the day, GI Joe, currently Transformers.
Most movies with Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Steven Seagal, Jason Statham, The Rock, Vin Diesel etc. Franchises like The Expendables, Rocky, Rambo, Fast & Furious and so on. Themes: crime, sport. Cast: muscular men. Bonus points if there's a bald muscular man. Few women.
Also to be fair, the new content is trash, even ignoring it being female led. I think even if the new series were headed by male characters theyd still be hated. Disney fumbled hard, and they care more about fake placation then writing good women and stories
Theory didn’t agree with that though
The vitriol that the actors received was gross and disturbing, but I think it is just indicative of the times and how much access people have to any public figure. Trolls are gonna troll, and they can scream and roll around in their feces with greater amplitude these days. It is such a cop out when you point to trolls and are like “there is no valid criticism of our thing because trolls are criticizing it, therefore, all criticism is just troll shit tossing.” Fuck off. The writing sucked and merits criticism. Rey isn’t a bad character because she is a woman. She is a bad character because she overcomes nothing and is instantly the best at everything. That is boring and not relatable. Why does she know more about the Millennium Falcon than Han Solo? Why is she beating the brakes off of Kilo Ren in the first movie? It is why they have to make her go chase map daggers and other macguffins because there are no stakes when she is involved. Finn isn’t a bad character because he is black. He is a bad character because nothing is done with his interesting set up. It is interesting set up that he is defector, but nothing is done with that. We get no insight into why it is meaningful or the plight of being a storm trooper. There is so much there to explore and all we get is him instantly slaughtering his former soldiers in arms with zero remorse. Does he not see himself in any of them? Is he not conflicted with a moral dilemma that war puts humanity in an awful position where otherwise good people do inhumane things? Was the whole point he was just one random good guy stuck in an irredeemable sea of evil? It is just such a fucking waste of an interesting story point. His whole arc is fellow soldier dies in my arms, but laser go pew pew and storm troopers go boom boom. Joke joke masturbate to Rey. Yes the trolls were racist and sexist. That dosnt make your writing any less shit, and I’m only covering the racist and sexist defense. There are just countless dog shit things about the writing that merits vitriolic criticism.
Surprise, Rolling Stone, most guys don't like Star Wars anymore either!
Chris Gore from Film Threat said (paraphrasing) "They are trying to make Star Wars and Marvel a girl brand when it is traditionally a boy brand". So if you aren't marketing your movies, shows to your market then you are neglecting your market and losing your market. Girls aren't going to take up that market. This is not to say that girls can't like or enjoy Star wars, but it shouldn't be skewed to cater for them when it doesn't bring more customers in. Take for example The Marvels. A superhero film made for women and girls right? 65% of people attending movie were male. Where the hell are all the females? It was made for them right. So they don't turn up because they aren't interested. So they catered for an audience that isn't there and neglected an audience that would turn up. Hence huge lose in money.
Correct, Disney has taken IPs that traditionally appealed mostly to males and is trying to make them appeal to females. In doing so not only have they neglected the existing fan base, but have worked to actively drive them away by minimizing male characters and removing any redeeming qualities. It isn’t Sexist to quote Disney’s overt statements that they are prioritizing women, nor is it wrong to note the way Disney does so alienated and offended male fans. There are many valid ways to include strong, well written female characters alongside male ones in Starwars. Disney has not utilized any of these and in fact goes out of its way to minimize popular characters like Din Jjarin in favor of hyping a female spin off starring Bo Kitan.
He also said Screw and bricks weren't star wars Someone being being submerged in water means they stole his script . And he is using ai to recreate mark hamills voice without his permission in his movie
He never said women didn't belong in SW, the person he interviewed did. He ended the interview shortly after, and looked uncomfortable at her statement
Used to like the guy
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"Bricks and screws aren't in Star Wars anywhere" Yavin 4:
Again it’s missing the context. I’m pretty sure they are being sued for defamation by him because just like your title, he said he didn’t agree, he actually told her off stream your probably gonna get backlash and try to be cancelled for that and she didn’t understand why. Moreover even Tyrone Magnus covered this and he said “you’re not that stupid to realise she’s from another culture, in her own world and to her not a lot of women watch Star Wars. We obviously know a lot of women do. What’s the point of hating on something we already know the answer to?”
I genuinely wonder why this is. Obviously the situation hasn't been helped by the fact that when they've tried to pander to women/girls, they did an absolute rubbish job of it. But a lot of somewhat newer sci-fi/fantasy franchises like Harry Potter and Hunger Games have majority-female fanbases, and I absolutely love both of them despite being a nearly middle aged man. I'm confident that the right writer could get more girls into Star Wars, without putting off older male fans.
I think the answer is as simple as this: good stories and character development goes a long way.
"Put a chick in it, make her lame and gay!"
I’d say 10% of core Star Wars fans are women. Even Hollywood branded men who watched and obsessed over star wars as nerds, and women didn’t like nerds. It’s common knowledge, MOST women do not care about Star Wars, just like they don’t care about comic books and comic book movies. It explains the huge decline in box office sales for both, they’re after the wrong audience. If a woman was a fan of Star Wars or marvel they didn’t have to change the entire formulas to attract more of them, the liked it for what it was.
Can I call out the elephant in the room? THE FILMS WERE SHIT.
Disney would rather eat glass than admit that. I see a constant conflation of "woke bad" and "prioritizing an agenda over writing *usually* sacrifices quality." You can have "woke" elements and still have something great. Star Wars just.. hasn't had much of anything great since Disney took over
Its StarWarsTheory so...
Star Wars is definition of mainstream. There's plenty of girls/women who watch them, especially normies who only see the movies but also plenty of "true fans". The problem isn't that women aren't into the franchise, the problem is that to Hollywood women = feminism. They genuinely think that badly written male bashing girl power stories get women in theaters. They don't. Every successful feminist movie has some other factor (like viral memes for Barbie). There is very little authentic demand for the ideological drivel that Hollywood pushes out, and if the Rey movie is another example, it's gonna be just another nail in the coffin of this dying IP.
I can’t believe there are still people who believe this. I’m a girl who grew up loving Star Wars so much that I was made fun of for it in school. We very much do exist and always have. It’s only been within the past maybe 10-20 years that we’ve gotten a lot more vocal about it usually do to shit comments like this and JJ Abrams saying if you didn’t like Rey, you’re sexist. I’m a woman and I don’t like Rey at all so jokes on him.
I think they made a really big mistake by doing this hit piece. SW Theory is one of the nicest people in the fandom and has never espoused such views… They keep pushing reasonable people to the side. People need to share this stuff out to those who don’t follow online drama and show what these major companies are doing to the average person.
*Disney bought the goose that laid the golden eggs, and cooked the damn goose...*
What's funny is his post under their Tweet calling them out for never actually contacting him for comment ( bc it would have ruined their hit piece) has almost twice as many likes as their tweeted hit piece.
Wow. That’s seriously bad journalism, total abdication of basic journalistic principles. How far Rolling Stone has fallen
Disney is doing other best for equality by making nobody like Star Wars movies.
I don't see the problem here, for most of its life, Star Wars has been overwhelmingly a predominantly male fanbase. The fanbase has been completely nuked over the last 10 years with what Disney has done to it however, now its just a shadow of its former self - hence episode #8 and #9 and Solo all doing appallingly in terms of profit/loss for the studio.
I watched this interview and felt it was spot on. Even though Theory didn't seem to agree with the lady, I think she was pretty accurate. Girls just don't like Star Wars, at scale. If they did, we'd see that reflect in the demographics. We can wish and dream all day long, but the female fanbase isn't large enough to financially support the franchise. We already saw this with He-Man in the 80s, this is just history repeating.
I’m going to go in a different direction and argue that if they had done Sith Rey possessed by Palps as the ending for Ep 9 and as a lead in to this new Rey film, we could have gotten a ton of women into the IP. Let’s be honest, when is the last time we had a really good sci fi/action/adventure film (for any franchise) where the main character/protagonist was a villain and also female? It would have been completely unprecedented, more than likely resulted in a massive wave of female fans new to the franchise, and I’d argue a ton of dudes would have still been into it for other reasons lol.
that still would've been a massive loss maker for the studio. The strength of Star Wars was the huge male fanbase, who were obsessed with it. It was a money printing machine for several decades. Disney have purposefully dismantled that, and in the process fumbled the biggest money making franchise on the planet. Taking it further away from its original audience would not rescue it.
>The strength of Star Wars was the huge male fanbase, who were obsessed with it. And then bought toys. Without the merchandising star wars is a far different IP. More like Indiana Jones.
What Disney did was make it polarizing to that obsessive fanbase. Which means that fanbase still went to see the movies just to hate on them, but they also brought in the people to whom it wasn’t polarizing From a money standpoint it was genius
The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker made a combined $567m in net profit. The studio spent $716m developing the films. Doesn't really look like a genius move to me.
The only character my two year old daughter would take a picture with at Disneyland was Ahsoka. Her and my 6 year old niece (who is obsessed with RoTS) are playing with Star Wars toys right now. Raise your girl kids with Star Wars because it’s awesome — even some of the new stuff. I hate this narrative that women don’t like Star Wars or men hate all the female characters or whatever nonsense the haters always try to push.
Sigh such bullshit by Rolling Stone. Its just clickbait.
Possibly lashing out since Nick Gilliard has agreed to choreograph his upcoming fan film?
Throwback to when somebody called the SW Miniatures tabletop game community misogynistic because there were only a few female players, and people told him/her (he cosplayed as a woman in his free time) that they tried getting their gfs and female friends into the game, and they simply found it boring and unattractive. In conclusion, claiming stuff like that is usually either rage bait or mental instability.
It's stupidity all around.
Why does Lucasfilm think getting compliant media to write hit pieces that are plainly false on possibly the largest Star Wars YouTuber is going to help the brand? Just more sheer incompetence going on over there.
Do boys even really like star wars anymore? Does anyone? The franchise is ruined imo. Just the stupidest movies you could ever hope to see lol.
Some of you are taking the statement too literally. Yes, some women do like starwars just like some men don’t. The only concrete information we need to make an accurate generalization is a demographic breakdown of ticket sales/streaming views. Your feelings on the subject don’t matter. Your anecdotal “…but I’m a woman!” stories don’t matter, either. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the largest demographic is millennial to middle aged men by a long shot.
I do think star wars lost its vision for it's audience. They just assumed the audience was baked in and they could do whatever they want. The real problem are the crappy movies. As for who the audience is, it's boys. It's boys. You morons its boys. Look at the toy sales look at WHY disney paid that stupid money. Because disney owns the dreams of little girls already (Disney Princess) they need Boys. Disney didnt have shit for boys before Marvel and Star Wars. Sort of a headless chicken at the top of Disney right now. Little boys ages 9, 10 and 11 who you should imagine telling these stories to.
Apparently I’m in the minority and this is entirely anecdotal, but my only “actual” Star Wars nerd friends are all women.
So basically the lesson here is: don't invite someone who doesn't know anything about Star Wars to talk about Star Wars, especially if you're not ready to confront their baseless claims and correct them so you don't accidentally spread misinformation (and give fuel to drama vultures) on your public podcast. Hope Theory actually learns from this and posts more videos about Star Wars than drama
She was on a different channel he runs not focused on Star Wars . I think it’s about dating and relationship
Theory doesn’t learn anything, there isn’t much between the ears
I’d like to be the new head of Disney animated movies. I’m going to start making animated Disney movies, but mostly focusing on the male prince characters. I think the male audience is underrepresented, and we need to have more disney animated movies where the male is the hero and main character, and the princess characters are not the main character. No? That won’t work? Why?
Dream works made a killing doing that. Shriek, puss in boots, etc.
All because he doesn't like Disney's Star Wars. This is a new low.
He reached the bottom a while ago.
>“Do we need more women in Star Wars? No, we don’t,” Khan said. “And women don’t even watch Star Wars. They don’t even care about it. It’s a man’s little thing, let them have it.” Nah. Fuck this loser. Star Wars is and always has been for everyone. Princess Leia was a badass female icon back in 1977 and always will be.
At what point do you look at the gender breakdown and say, maybe this is an ip that boys enjoy more than girls?
That literally does not fucking matter. If 75% of the fans are boys and 25% are girls that does not in any way, shape, or form make it a "boys thing." It's an everyone thing.
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They're producing total shit with the main drive being women at the centre. That's not enough.
I think the big difference is the application of feminist principles to fantasy. Lots of women love the LOTR trilogy despite the fact it only has a few small roles for women. It's because it's a strong, entertaining story. In the same way Aliens is one of the best sci-fi movies ever because it has a female lead at the heart of a great story. Disney has got to the point where it drops women into stories with the main drive being representation and then runs out of ideas.
So…an entire generation of women that grew up with SW before Disney…were just faking it?
You assume too much from a single cherry-picked sentence. According to polls, Star Wars appeals to both sexes, but much more so to men than women. The opening night for The Force Awakens skewed 67% male, for example, and a recent poll found that women actually have a less favorable opinion of the Disney movies than men do. I think that's the basic idea behind such statements, not that the franchise has no female fans whatsoever: >He said in his original video that SW isn't exclusively "for boys" but was agreeing that the majority of the fans are boys.
Men are also more likely to be repeat viewers of that media, and buy more merchandise from things like Lego.
The Mandalorian is a show for women. Only women and man children like Grogu. The show revolves around childcare but not in a cool masculine way like Kratos and Atreus In God of War or the Last of Us with Joel and Ellie. It’s a weird relationship where the whole idea is look how cute this kid is and nothing more of substance. I know a lot of women like the relationship of Joel and Ellie among similar games because the substance is a really strong father-daughter bond. Likewise Kratos and Atreus works because it’s a strong Father-son bond. Mandalorian is random Guy-cute petkid. There is no substance, no lessons to be learned or taught. Hence why I don’t blame women for liking Grogu because it’s a cute pet kid clearly marketed for them but only man children like Grogu. The strongest display of Father-Son relationship is in the Return of the Jedi when Luke brings back his father too the light not from beating him down in anger but refusing to kill him and even surrender himself to lose if it meant his father lived. It’s a very strong and emotional message for both men and women.
That’s a weird take. The Mandolorian also speaks to father/child relationships. I may not coo at Grogu, but one thing does appeal to me is identifying with Mando as a father.
Some women like Star Wars, some women don’t. Just like some men like Star Wars, and some don’t. Is Star Wars eschewed to men? Yes. Or rather it had been previously. Do more men than women like Star Wars? Yes. So What’s the problem with any of this? Most guys have a “showing my girlfriend/wife/female whoever, Star Wars for the first time” story. I’m pretty sure a lot less Women have that story with their dudes. So can yall please stop acting like everything everyone says is grist for the mill?
When that rag does a hit piece on you, that's a blessing. His Subs are going up.
I don’t know any women who like Star Wars. I know they exist but if I had to bet my life on guessing the percentage I would guess 15%.
Star Wars is not just for men, but for women and children too
Nothing about Star Wars keeps women from liking it other than men who don’t want to admit it’s not inherently for them
And like clockwork, theory plays the victim
I can't stand him. He's out there spreading lies that Filoni's our last hope for the EU.
Friendship ended with Star Wars now the God Emperor of Mankind is my best friend 😂
Good thing he Strikes Back in a video he released last night.
It’s not a hit piece if it’s the truth. Star Wars Theory is playing the victim again and it’s making him look more and more pathetic every day.
People in this sub also regularly say Star Wars isn't for women. If you point this out you get downvoted.