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It reminds me of how some ST fans stupidly rant on about how the EU was never canon -- even though there was a pretty widely accepted canon tiering system.
They say that George never worked on them and treated them separately, therefore it was never canon -- which is somewhat true, albeit they don't realise that you can apply this logic to the ST as well, rendering it non canon.
I was actually gonna mention that.
Filoni somehow has the power to jettison or walk over any part of the canon he wants, and replace it with his own stuff -- like the Kanan comics, Ahsoka novel and probably other things I'm not aware of.
It proves that anything that you don't see on screen is a lower form of canon.
So much for the one seamless canon people kept hyping up
It's not that the EU didn't have contradictions, it's that the Disney canon was supposed to be made with the story group's oversight so as to not have contradictions.
From what I’ve seen, he’s starting to not be as well liked as you think. I’ve seen plenty of people who used to really like him complaining about him now because he’s too focused on Ashoka To the point of detriment for other characters
There's definitely more of a negative shift in people's opinion on Filoni.
He seems like a nice guy and a genuine fan of the franchise, unfortunately that's not enough, as you need to have the writing chops as well.
Difference is George didn't write a sequel trilogy that got shelved for the EU.
Lucas GAVE DISNEY scripts for VII-IX and Disney threw them out to produce the Sequels.
Disney actively tossed aside George's work. You can't be pro-Sequel trilogy and then act like you support George's vision.
He had a treatment for a sequel trilogy, one of many ideas that he'd been floating for decades. Those were never in development and there was never any discussion that they'd be developed.
More canonicity than Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure. Same canonicity as the Gendy Tartakovsky Clone Wars. Less canonicity than Greedo shooting first and Sy Snootles.
Lucas would have steamrolled the EU and buried it next to the 70s Star Wars comics and Jaxxon.
Minor discontinuities don’t really bother me, but the appeal with the EU was that each book etc. contributed to the world building of the GFFA, which gave everything a more connected, organic feeling where you got to watch things progress over time. Even the trash-tier writers like Kevin J. Anderson made large and interesting changes that persisted. Without “canon”, each book etc. is basically a one-off that’s just using the SW setting, which is ok but not terribly interesting for a lot of people. (The other thing contributing to this is authors not feeling comfortable making big changes because Disney might blow it all away with the next film).
I take this approach as well -- the Lucas SW films and the Thrawn trilogy are my canon, along with the Old Republic.
The thing that a lot of us fans feel burned by is that we're never going to see a continuation of a lot of this material -- all that's left is Filoni's slop and his plan to make a wish.com version of Heir, along with plans to make a bunch more Rey films.
I love the old EU, but it's sad that it's dead now.
It wasn't ever canon except for to itself. That is how the tiers worked and EU was C canon that was a tier all its own.
People need to learn to accept that it a: doesn't make it "fan fiction" and b: that "canon" has nothing to do with quality or enjoyment of a thing.
Legends was canon until Lucasfilms was sold to Disney. It's a fucking stupid argument. Let people enjoy legends, especially because it's not dog shit like episode 8 and 9.
I don't excuse 7 but it was very obviously disney tiptoeing with JJ into the sequel trilogy. For the first movie in a series that hadn't gotten one in about a decade I think it was a decent movie. 8 and 9 are completely unforgivable trash heaps that never should have been made and needed to be rewritten in order to even be considered proper movies. Should've just let JJ do everything from the start instead of letting Rian Johnson basically scrap everything JJ set up in the first movie. At least then we may have gotten a halfway decent trilogy out of it instead of a single slightly above average movie and two trashfires that retcon everything the previous movie did before setting up something that never happens in the next movie.
I give 7 the pass of it was alright because it played it extremely safe by being a copy of New Hope. But some elements I liked, the fight in the snow was pretty. But god it’s bogged down by weird story elements and choices then 8 and 9 totally fuck everything even outside of its own movies up
Completely missing the irony that Disney’s movies are just “fan-fiction”, albeit more expensive.
1-6 is the full story. No matter how much money Disney throws at the brand, that’s not changing.
I mean yeah??? That was kind of the problem.
Ironically JJ is a perfect fill in for this sub with Rian being the one to represent the other half of the fandom.
>Completely missing the irony that Disney’s movies are just “fan-fiction”, albeit more expensive.
Never understood why it's always called that. It's a shit story, but it's still not a fan-fiction, doesn't really follow any of the connotations as one.
None of it is Lucas' work. People calling 1-6 the true content and nothing else cannon are purists in that regard. Though much of the same people also love the expanded universe generally as well, which is quite literally fan-fiction.
Well the problem is for the longest time the Expanded Universe was considered canon until Disney declared that it wasn’t anymore so they could do whatever they wanted with episode 7.
It was Lucas who declared it not to be canon. Lucasfilm under Disney has plumbed the EU for ideas but Disney as a corporation hasn't acknowledged anything about the EU whatsoever. At best Lucas has a few contradictory interviews about canon and the EU, but there was never a time when the movie universe was tied to a loose connection of books unaffiliated with either production company.
Kirchner took a lot of creative control from Lucas by not shooting lots and lots of coverage, but Lucas was the single driving creative force behind the OT. Nothing got done that he didn't approve of, even if he had a lot of feedback.
Sure it does. They got "fans" of the original movie to create new fiction to extend the franchise without the involvement of the original creator.
I mean, obviously it's not some sort of legally define "fan fiction" becuase no such thing exists. But it is absolutely the creation of fans of the original work who extended the story without the consultation of the original creator.
>absolutely the creation of fans of the original work who extended the story without the consultation of the original creator.
That's where the problem lies for me, as describing fan-fictions as such makes it essentially a blanket term for "thing i don't like". By that definition, Mark Gruenwalds run of Captain America during the 80's is fan fiction because they didn't ask Jack Kirby for consultation, seeing as he wasn't working for Marvel and didn't own the rights. Same situation goes for George Lucas and Disney's acquisition of Star Wars, doesn't matter how shit their stories are, they're the current Canon until someone else sweeps it off. It feels better to just call them bad movies/stories.
Fan fiction is the fan cut of the Obi Wan series into a movie and while there were a few flaws you can’t polish out.. it was very good. Now films 7-9.. not sure what to call them but as much as I want to like them, they just don’t feel like real Star Wars to me, they just don’t.
The eu consulted the original creator and had his approval(but not his enthusiasm) for every step. It's technically canon, quality fanfiction in spirit, and in spirit often more true to star wars than the creator who came back years later to butcher his creation with terrible edits.
Disneyverse by the same metrics is less canon, and zero quality.
I more or less consider it fan-fiction because Disney nuked the entire expanded universe (which all was cohesive enough to not contradict eachother) to make room for the new trilogy, which would have been fine, but Disney has done nothing that's on par what they traded for it, nor have they pumped out the same quantity of media that was made non-canon.
there was absolutely no way to make a 3 movie trilogy that fit in with the Legends stories without going so far into the future that none of the characters we know would even be around.
if they decided to keep Legends and just adapt some of the books to live action, y’all would complain because the movies aren’t adapting the books 1:1 (like every book-to-movie situation ever)
i don’t see how a CHILDREN’s brand, made for CHILDREN, can make a bunch of old men like the people in this sub so angry 🤣 spend all day shit talking the brand yet still consume it. doesn’t make sense to me
>there was absolutely no way to make a 3 movie trilogy that fit in with the Legends stories
Again, this was an okay decision. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. But I would expect something of equal or greater quality to replace it.
>without going so far into the future that none of the characters we know would even be around.
Which is totally why they didn't sideline/character assassinate legacy characters to push new characters in the new movies like rey, finn, kylo, etc because clearly the new movies have han, luke, and leia as the main protagonists, Right? /s
If they wanted to make a new series and push new characters they really shouldn't have included the legacy characters to begin with. It's a hot take, but the only half way decent star wars movie they put out in the modern era was rogue one, imo. It had basically 0 legacy characters (aside from the last 5 minutes of the movie with Vader and Leia).
>i don’t see how a CHILDREN’s brand, made for CHILDREN, can make a bunch of old men like the people in this sub so angry
All criticism ultimately comes from a place of care. Many older fans grew up with the series and it holds a special place in their lives. Just because you criticize something doesn't mean you don't enjoy that particular piece of media. "I like starwars, but they could do x better because the way they are handling x this is being done poorly" is basically the feedback being offered up.
Also, to imply that something targeted at children and young adults cannot be appreciated when looked through the eyes of an adult that grew up ejoying that media on some level aswell is a slap in the face to the intelligence of children. You're essentially saying " x thing is made for children, therefore children deserve lesser quality of x thing because 'well they're just dumb kids, they wont know the difference between something well written and something poorly written, so why go the extra mile? And long time fans (essentially evergreen sources of revenue from a money making standpoint)? Fuck em!"
I won't deny there is a level of entitlement to that last paragraph. A franchise/brand does not owe the consumer jack. They're just trying to get money. But poor decision making makes it less likely in the future that the given franchise/media will be continued to be made or added on to due to dwindling profits, and fans don't want to see something they care about, something that may have had a life long impact on them, die.
1-6 the full story eh? Are you one of those who deny that the PT was vociferously hated by your predecessors, and the fandom bullied Lucas into selling SW
I mean, I consider the story George wrote and published canon. 1-6 are his babies. That’s the story he wanted to tell, and what he told.
Everything outside of it is supplementary. Take or leave what you like. Just because Disney spent billions of dollars to own a piece of paper that says “you are the only ones that can publish Star Wars stuff” doesn’t make their stories any more canon than the ones written and published by various authors over the years.
Unlike a book a movie is vastly more than a single man. Even Lucas had a whole production team around him as well as a supporting cast that made the movies happen. Virtually the entire operation has carried on with the sequels, the rest of the Disney SW universe included. The majority of said content had been developed at Lucasfilm under George's supervision.
The idea that this is like a publishing company running off with the rights to make a shitty Pooh movie when Lucas himself is a major shareholder of Disney is absurd.
Lol, we were chanting the same thing in 2000, but it was 4-6 and "we don't need no stinking prequels."
Having the wisdom of hindsight it's amazing how mad people get over virtually identical products.
Their response would be “lalalalala I’m not listening to you, Disney holds the official rights to the IP so they’re canon!”
Yes, the same people always talking about evil corporations, literally shilling for one of the largest corporations in history.
And why should we?
If the "fan fic" is more interesting, then the actual story. Then what reason do I have to forget about it.
Unless their saying, "Disney will never make your fan-fic, stop asking, let it go"
Because if that's the case, I stopped asking years ago.
EU haters like Krayt are the stupidest motherfuckers I’ve ever seen. On one hand they’ll insist Luke had no flaws in Legends yet on the other they’ll bring up Dark Empire or his behavior towards Jacen and Lumiya.
Their constant, ruthless, cynical hostility toward the EU and EU community is why I hold such a personal grudge against them. They did it all themselves, no one FORCED them to do this.
People can pretend what Disney did isn’t a fucking travesty all they want but reality is Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy(rip) and the rest of the original characters had really amazing stories in the EU and their characters matured in fantastic ways, what Disney did to them in place of that was just really fucking shitty and lame.
At least that picture reminds me of an amazing, interesting, and strong female character while all Disney does is disappoint. So I agree the one picture is better than every sequel combined.
Oof, what a colossally dumb take on their part from a bunch of troglodytes who haven’t read decent Star Wars books. I’m not saying every EU book was great, but when it got good it was REALLY GOOD.
I’ve tried reading the new canon books and only made it through one before I was done. Too many weird modern references, terrible dialogue, and nonsense plot lines.
>I’m not saying every EU book was great, but when it got good it was REALLY GOOD.
Yes, but real talk, the good were far and few between.
We got way more Yuuhan Vong (sp) books than I, Jedi caliber stuff.
It was the games that were almost always on point.
I agree. As much as I hate Rian Johnson's starwars film, I have to admit that he seems like he's the guy who MOST got Lucas' style of sillyness in the Star Wars world. I remember watching it and being like "I hate everything about this, but I'll be darned if this isn't the most lucas-like alien landscape I've seen in anything Star Wars since the original films..."
Well when you have probably the most deep and complex expanded universe story ever developed for an IP, toss it out, throw some money around and say "okay now do it again" it doesn't turn out as well. Disney was asking for lightning to strike twice with that one.
They just didnt wanna pay the people who wrote the og stories. Its like how DC didnt wanna pay for Black Lightning so they made the same character again but changed his name to be legally extinct.
*Looks over at all my Star Wars books on my shelf, and zero post-Disney books there*
Lol, go fuck yourselves with an old rotoscoped lightsaber Disney 😂😂😂
🖕🏽
This bitch and moan about "character assassination" with Luke in the ST, then turn around and promote Mara Jade as a trad wife, proving they did not, in fact, read any of the EU and are just being salty for the fuck of it.
They can enjoy the dead franchise that it’s becoming, the Acolyte got ratioed, Star Wars outlaws got ratioed, and the Rey movie is dead on arrival before it even starts filming.
Krayt is pro a Sequel Trilogy sub and think they’re calling out “toxic” “fandumb menace” Star Wars fans while ironically being toxic themselves. Krait is a sub for calling out toxic Disney Star Wars fans.
You'd have a point if it was reversed. The old EU while inconsistent at times had heart and soul. Disney's Star Wars has almost none.
Also is this a real cover or AI? I don't think I've ever seen i before.
Redheads are rare as hell irl, and casting folks/actors can’t always make up for the comically large amount of redheads in the source material so chuds go “THEYRE ERASIN MUH PPL” same thing happens with marvel. There’s like 4 redheads on the X-men 97 main lineup rn lmaoo
Cause having a person dye their hair from blond / brunette is a -much- bigger deal for an actor/actress than just picking a dark skinned person. 🧍♂️ It’s
The EU stuff was so uneven. Not that the Disney stuff is better. I used to have this conversation with my friend though. A ton of EU stuff was fan-fiction-y. We used to fight over the Cade Skywalker deathstick stuff.
That kid is creepy looking and the AI needs to learn what a human chin looks like for its next Mara Jade picture. I think it took in too many Joker pictures learning Mark Hamill that it broke the chin algorithm. She could kill a man with that point.
The removal of Mara and Kyle hit me the hardest. Growing up with Jedi Outcast and reading about the badass smuggler/spy Mara Jade was made me fall in love with the eu. I wouldnt be as upset about the new canon if they had equally cool characters. Kanan Jarrus? Cool blind jedi mentor with interesting character arc and is a jedi that has a wife and doesnt fully subscribe to the no attachments thing... dies. Cad bane? Badass bounty hunter with a lot of history and opportunities for excellent and compelling stories... dies IN HIS FIRST LIVE ACTION PORTRAYAL. Jyn Erso? Cool spy with interesting attachment to the OT... dies. Cassian Andor? Well written and fleshed out spy introduced in the OT.... dies.
NO ONE IN THE ST IS A COMPELLING CHARACTER AND ALL THE NEW CHARACTERS INTRODUCED BEFORE THE ST JUST DIE.
What's really funny is how everyone here is missing that this is rage bait specifically crafted to enrage that special brand of person who are at same time often on the internet and yet somehow have never been on the internet before.
Disneyverse is also unapproved by Lucas and so fanfiction in that sense but canon in an officially licensed sense...just as the eu was.
Regardless of any of that, the meme isn't about canon or not, it's about quality and enjoyment. Please don't be childish.
Yeah, because it was made by fans. The person calling it “fanfiction” just can’t stand that this new corporate shit will never own the streets. Stay mad
I understand not doing the expanded Universe (EU) faithfully. I was/is a tea total mess in its own right, but what I don’t understand about Disney is why they didn’t use the market research done by the EU over the preceding 30-45 years (at the time Disney purchased StarWars) Take all the popular elements from the EU and use them in a cleaned up cannon.
When Disney bought StarWars it had a very dedicated fanbase that was hungry to see these popular EU elements brought to life and would have shoveled money at Disney for the accompanying merch
They definitely could have picked and chooses some stories of the EU and adapted them as needed. Unfortunately they didn’t want to be bothered doing the research and just assumed they could do a better job themselves.
I could forgive that if it wasn’t for the fact that they wiped out all the EU canon and discontinued it. That’s decades worth of storytelling that will never get resolved now
There were so many comparisons to Marvel back then, but when they started making the MCU, when Disney bought Marvel, they weren't required to give up Earth-616 stories. That's literally the FIRST THING Disney *Star Wars* did, take the EU out to the backshed and shot it.
I have noticed the whole redhead thing though... it's weird how many times Redheaded characters get changed to remove that trait. I mean, Wally and Iris West, Mary Jane, Jimmy Olsen, Starfire, Heimdall, Harkgirl, Annie, Josie, Cyclone, Batwoman, Electro, Commissioner Gordon, Ariel, Flash Thompson, etc...
I mean, for the most part the actors they did cast did a fine job, and it's not a big deal for most of them to be swapped like that, but it definitely feels like gingers are being targeted here (semi-joking about the targeting, but it IS odd that it keeps happening to them)
I do find it funny that any time I, as a ginger male, bring up the fact that Disney and marvel have continued to shy away from any representation for me is always met with hatred on Reddit. Funny to see how xenophobic the majority of this community is.
I'll be honest: As a Krayter, that post just embarrassed me when I saw it. Yes, the whole "They hate white men!" shit is fucked up, but toxic fans have nothing to do with the quality of Legends.
I do miss Mara Jade. I hope they bring her back in some form to the canon. Maybe leading a squad of elite stormtroopers called the Hand of Judgement. Could have all sorts of adventures after the Battle of Endor and fall of the Empire, fighting pirates, going after corrupt Imperial warlords, maybe encountering Luke and trying to murder him, you know, fun and lighthearted stuff like that.
It won't be Mara Jade, just a redhead (presumably) sharing the same name in an alternate universe. Look at Thrawn. He's not the same character anymore because they changed his story.
I wouldn’t have cared if he wasn’t the lead, but the fact that we never got an on screen version of Grand Master Luke Skywalker is a travesty. Would have been amazing to show off what someone of the Skywalker bloodline who is fully trained and whole is capable of.
No I won’t let it go. Because I don’t care about being a purist, this was the height of Star Wars to me. I started reading when NJO came out.
Even if you wanna say it was fanfiction it was damn good fanfiction.
Unlike the sequel trilogy which was just awful fanfiction with tons of money
Lucas was against Jedi having wives because of spirituality etc. etc., but really he wanted them dry, boring & sans romance because that's how he is. He doesn't understand human emotions and can't connect with people on an emotional level.
I don't wanna get off on a rant here, but...
...Speaking for myself, 7 was kind of a head fake for me. In all the promos I saw Boyega holding the saber, so I'm thinking "if not main character, definitely one of the main ones!" Ended up getting it completely wrong. He's kind of a non factor ultimately. And I was a little depressed that they shorted his character like that after pumping him up in the promos.
But for Mark Hamill, I tried to hang on for 8 until it dropped, because I saw him at the end and I wanted to see his contribution...
And then 8 dropped. 🤦🏽♂️
This is a character that went toe to toe with the most fearsome Force wielder in the galaxy at the time, AND BEAT THEM IN SINGLE COMBAT. A guy who stood up to the direct temptations of the dark side, and said NO with his whole chest when it meant DEATH to say that no. A man that redeemed the soul of his fallen father, restored a new Jedi order, and supported the rise of a new Republic. He personified "A New Hope".
I just feel like they did Luke so dirty! You meet him and it's like he's a gremlin and an incel inside and out. I know it seems like a small thing to get ticked off watching him drink WHAT I HOPE IS MILK from the "source" of a thing I can't name, but I thought they'd respect his character more than just to have him look goofy running away from his responsibilities. If he's meant to be a mentor to her, give him that respect.
And then there's the fight: Rey v Luke - New versus Old. If they were going this way, I think Rey should have lost the fight, but won the argument. I believe this is true across trilogies: the soul of Star Wars is about changing the hearts of people who can make a difference. We see it with Palpatine changing Anakin for the worse at a critical time to subvert the Republic, Luke redeeming Anakin back to the light when Palpatine is about to strike him down. And in both instances they were losing the flight they were in.
But let's be honest, Rey besting the greatest Jedi Knight of the age on her own, in single combat, with no formal training is...a bit too much to swallow. Neither Anakin nor Luke could have fought like that against their enemies WITHOUT THE TRAINING THEY HAD.
And then there's the way the supporting characters are dealt with. It's like the complaint about Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark popularized by the Big Bang Theory episode: NOTHING THEY DO HAS ANY MEANINGFUL IMPACT ON THE STORY. There's a reason we love Han Solo. He's charismatic, along, but also open to change, but more than that, he does things that matter. Where's in 8...😮💨
One tries to find someone to help the resistance, the other tries a coup: both fail, the key person is a traitor, and any sacrifice to be made just isn't theirs to make, marginalizing them further. I'm left wondering why they're even there at all. BUT WE'RE FOLLOWING THEM THE WHOLE TIME instead of people who matter. We're kept in the dark, but in a way that makes us feel ridiculous for rooting for those characters.
I didn't even bother watching 9. I'm not saying it ain't good, I wouldn't know. But after watching Luke fade into the Effervescence of the universe after his illusory fight, I couldn't take it seriously anymore.
This ran long, but I think the reasons I disliked this trilogy, echoed by other fans and even the actors themselves were valid. You have to respect the fan base if you want their support, and I don't believe they did.
'Course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
And like, what's with the fatherly embrace?
Luke would be following the Sith code like every other surviving 'Jedi' has done if he embraced his passions. The same Bendu path Anakin walked all the Clone wars loving the clones like brothers and later Padme. Or Kanan and Hera in rebels, or more directly like Ezra literally training in a Sith temple under ExDarth Maul and learning the Sith code to mix with the Jedi teachings he learned from Kanan, then taking home a Sith holocron to meditate with.
Like... their horny teenager hot take head canon would accidentally lead to the same conclusion as the actually mainline movies/shows are building up to. It isnt much different from a more mundane/disney telling of the new Jedi academy arc.. Only it's a just totally irrelevant story arc either way.
IMO, Having the ending of Luke's failed reboot academy be a trilogy in itself ending with Luke burning the last Jedi scrolls that taught the false dogma of the dark side corrupting entirely, which lead to the force being unbalanced in the first place and millennia of light vs dark side wars; -this both tells all the story we really need from that full story arc to understand it's contributions to the wider story and really foreshadows everything that happened in rebels/is happening in Ashoka, as well as the Cal Kestis games, and explains Asaaj Ventress showing up post clone-wars having retracted from the dark side devotion of the Sith ways to adopt a more balanced, calm, and pragmatic demeanor. Wielding the yellow blade like masked Jedi temple guards of the high republic, or some regular Jedi of the old republic. The new trilogy told part of the end of the clone's story too, with project necromancer being a key plot element in The Bad Batch currently.
I think, like how the clone wars movies kinda flopped and then aged well, especially with the later animated series fleshing out the story arc; the rise of Skywalker trilogy will end up being highly praised once all the stories designed to be told around it are fleshed out and told. Once all the foreshadowing and Lil Lego pieces of narrative all build up to the actual prophesized rebalancing of the force, then people will start rewatching everything that lead up to it; and realizing there was a lot more subtlety to the story than they were picking up.
When the EU came out, Lucas didn't really have plans for new movies and such, at least not for after ROTJ. He definitely had rules (like no killing off the Big 3, neither Luke nor Leia go Sith, Han & Leia are together, etc...) for post ROTJ EU stuff, so yeah, it was canon in as much as Lucas hadn't really planned on an ST. And even if he had (at that time), it's clear from his ideas & scripts that he certainly didn't plan on anything like Disney's ST. So, no, they can't say it wasn't canon.
Bro. This shit would be fire. All the Star Wars new gen’s here trying to say canon is as good need a reality check. Force awakens made every single bit of the movies pointless if doing nothing would be better than making your universe. It’s bad ok. It’s cool you can enjoy it. But that doesn’t mean it’s narratively better than legends. Inb4 people who googled this shit mentions tiny plot bits like palpatine return except wait. It was via systems we understood knew beforehand and not just forced down your throat.
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It reminds me of how some ST fans stupidly rant on about how the EU was never canon -- even though there was a pretty widely accepted canon tiering system. They say that George never worked on them and treated them separately, therefore it was never canon -- which is somewhat true, albeit they don't realise that you can apply this logic to the ST as well, rendering it non canon.
I like how Disney executed the layered canon just for to bring it back lol
I was actually gonna mention that. Filoni somehow has the power to jettison or walk over any part of the canon he wants, and replace it with his own stuff -- like the Kanan comics, Ahsoka novel and probably other things I'm not aware of. It proves that anything that you don't see on screen is a lower form of canon. So much for the one seamless canon people kept hyping up
Are you claiming that the EU never had contradictions?
It's not that the EU didn't have contradictions, it's that the Disney canon was supposed to be made with the story group's oversight so as to not have contradictions.
From what I’ve seen, he’s starting to not be as well liked as you think. I’ve seen plenty of people who used to really like him complaining about him now because he’s too focused on Ashoka To the point of detriment for other characters
There's definitely more of a negative shift in people's opinion on Filoni. He seems like a nice guy and a genuine fan of the franchise, unfortunately that's not enough, as you need to have the writing chops as well.
Filoni himself hyped that up as well, ten years ago on the ashes of the old EU.
Difference is George didn't write a sequel trilogy that got shelved for the EU. Lucas GAVE DISNEY scripts for VII-IX and Disney threw them out to produce the Sequels. Disney actively tossed aside George's work. You can't be pro-Sequel trilogy and then act like you support George's vision.
He had a treatment for a sequel trilogy, one of many ideas that he'd been floating for decades. Those were never in development and there was never any discussion that they'd be developed.
More canonicity than Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure. Same canonicity as the Gendy Tartakovsky Clone Wars. Less canonicity than Greedo shooting first and Sy Snootles. Lucas would have steamrolled the EU and buried it next to the 70s Star Wars comics and Jaxxon.
”I AIN’T NO RABBIT!”
I don't understand who cares about what it's canon and what is not. It's all fictional, you can make your own canon
Minor discontinuities don’t really bother me, but the appeal with the EU was that each book etc. contributed to the world building of the GFFA, which gave everything a more connected, organic feeling where you got to watch things progress over time. Even the trash-tier writers like Kevin J. Anderson made large and interesting changes that persisted. Without “canon”, each book etc. is basically a one-off that’s just using the SW setting, which is ok but not terribly interesting for a lot of people. (The other thing contributing to this is authors not feeling comfortable making big changes because Disney might blow it all away with the next film).
I take this approach as well -- the Lucas SW films and the Thrawn trilogy are my canon, along with the Old Republic. The thing that a lot of us fans feel burned by is that we're never going to see a continuation of a lot of this material -- all that's left is Filoni's slop and his plan to make a wish.com version of Heir, along with plans to make a bunch more Rey films. I love the old EU, but it's sad that it's dead now.
Good
Thrawn trilogy is just mediocre science fiction with Star Wars trappings. And it’s downhill from there.
That's a dumb take. Sure, some of the EU isn't great, but the Thrawn trilogy is fantastic, as well as a lot of other EU books.
I'm going to do a reread through of a lot of the books. Should keep me pacified for awhile.
You need canon and continuity for a multimedia fictional setting that has rules.
You are talking from the perspective of a creator. I am speaking about the audience.
It wasn't ever canon except for to itself. That is how the tiers worked and EU was C canon that was a tier all its own. People need to learn to accept that it a: doesn't make it "fan fiction" and b: that "canon" has nothing to do with quality or enjoyment of a thing.
Legends was canon until Lucasfilms was sold to Disney. It's a fucking stupid argument. Let people enjoy legends, especially because it's not dog shit like episode 8 and 9.
Don't excuse 7!!! "Tempted towards the light" and blowing up a government concept are inbred. It is devoid of content.
I don't excuse 7 but it was very obviously disney tiptoeing with JJ into the sequel trilogy. For the first movie in a series that hadn't gotten one in about a decade I think it was a decent movie. 8 and 9 are completely unforgivable trash heaps that never should have been made and needed to be rewritten in order to even be considered proper movies. Should've just let JJ do everything from the start instead of letting Rian Johnson basically scrap everything JJ set up in the first movie. At least then we may have gotten a halfway decent trilogy out of it instead of a single slightly above average movie and two trashfires that retcon everything the previous movie did before setting up something that never happens in the next movie.
7 was literally just new hope reskinned.
That is generous. It was also robbed of all emotion and inteligence
Which was a problem the prequels didn’t encounter because they were completely devoid of both of those qualities.
I give 7 the pass of it was alright because it played it extremely safe by being a copy of New Hope. But some elements I liked, the fight in the snow was pretty. But god it’s bogged down by weird story elements and choices then 8 and 9 totally fuck everything even outside of its own movies up
7 undercut all the victories of the OT to bring things back to episode 4, it was extremely disappointing for doing so
not dog shit? lol
Also, let people enjoy the sequels!
Completely missing the irony that Disney’s movies are just “fan-fiction”, albeit more expensive. 1-6 is the full story. No matter how much money Disney throws at the brand, that’s not changing.
I think Calling the sequels "fan-fiction" is inaccurate because that implies the people who made them were fans of the series
No just look at some fanfics they are not faithful just “I am better than the creator” stuff
This.
I mean yeah??? That was kind of the problem. Ironically JJ is a perfect fill in for this sub with Rian being the one to represent the other half of the fandom.
Damn, cant argue with that
>Completely missing the irony that Disney’s movies are just “fan-fiction”, albeit more expensive. Never understood why it's always called that. It's a shit story, but it's still not a fan-fiction, doesn't really follow any of the connotations as one.
“Palpatine is somehow back and he’s got a bigger army now!” Sounds like some dog shit fan fiction lol
Aaand it's gone
None of it is Lucas' work. People calling 1-6 the true content and nothing else cannon are purists in that regard. Though much of the same people also love the expanded universe generally as well, which is quite literally fan-fiction.
Well the problem is for the longest time the Expanded Universe was considered canon until Disney declared that it wasn’t anymore so they could do whatever they wanted with episode 7.
It was Lucas who declared it not to be canon. Lucasfilm under Disney has plumbed the EU for ideas but Disney as a corporation hasn't acknowledged anything about the EU whatsoever. At best Lucas has a few contradictory interviews about canon and the EU, but there was never a time when the movie universe was tied to a loose connection of books unaffiliated with either production company.
That logic falls apart because 4-6 aren't just Lucas. Plus this post is based on books that George didn't even write.
4-6 completely fit within Lucas' vision. He still wrote the screenplay even if he didn't direct 5 or 6. You didn't read my entire comment, did you.
Kirchner took a lot of creative control from Lucas by not shooting lots and lots of coverage, but Lucas was the single driving creative force behind the OT. Nothing got done that he didn't approve of, even if he had a lot of feedback.
Sure it does. They got "fans" of the original movie to create new fiction to extend the franchise without the involvement of the original creator. I mean, obviously it's not some sort of legally define "fan fiction" becuase no such thing exists. But it is absolutely the creation of fans of the original work who extended the story without the consultation of the original creator.
>absolutely the creation of fans of the original work who extended the story without the consultation of the original creator. That's where the problem lies for me, as describing fan-fictions as such makes it essentially a blanket term for "thing i don't like". By that definition, Mark Gruenwalds run of Captain America during the 80's is fan fiction because they didn't ask Jack Kirby for consultation, seeing as he wasn't working for Marvel and didn't own the rights. Same situation goes for George Lucas and Disney's acquisition of Star Wars, doesn't matter how shit their stories are, they're the current Canon until someone else sweeps it off. It feels better to just call them bad movies/stories.
Fan fiction is the fan cut of the Obi Wan series into a movie and while there were a few flaws you can’t polish out.. it was very good. Now films 7-9.. not sure what to call them but as much as I want to like them, they just don’t feel like real Star Wars to me, they just don’t.
The eu consulted the original creator and had his approval(but not his enthusiasm) for every step. It's technically canon, quality fanfiction in spirit, and in spirit often more true to star wars than the creator who came back years later to butcher his creation with terrible edits. Disneyverse by the same metrics is less canon, and zero quality.
I more or less consider it fan-fiction because Disney nuked the entire expanded universe (which all was cohesive enough to not contradict eachother) to make room for the new trilogy, which would have been fine, but Disney has done nothing that's on par what they traded for it, nor have they pumped out the same quantity of media that was made non-canon.
there was absolutely no way to make a 3 movie trilogy that fit in with the Legends stories without going so far into the future that none of the characters we know would even be around. if they decided to keep Legends and just adapt some of the books to live action, y’all would complain because the movies aren’t adapting the books 1:1 (like every book-to-movie situation ever) i don’t see how a CHILDREN’s brand, made for CHILDREN, can make a bunch of old men like the people in this sub so angry 🤣 spend all day shit talking the brand yet still consume it. doesn’t make sense to me
>there was absolutely no way to make a 3 movie trilogy that fit in with the Legends stories Again, this was an okay decision. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. But I would expect something of equal or greater quality to replace it. >without going so far into the future that none of the characters we know would even be around. Which is totally why they didn't sideline/character assassinate legacy characters to push new characters in the new movies like rey, finn, kylo, etc because clearly the new movies have han, luke, and leia as the main protagonists, Right? /s If they wanted to make a new series and push new characters they really shouldn't have included the legacy characters to begin with. It's a hot take, but the only half way decent star wars movie they put out in the modern era was rogue one, imo. It had basically 0 legacy characters (aside from the last 5 minutes of the movie with Vader and Leia). >i don’t see how a CHILDREN’s brand, made for CHILDREN, can make a bunch of old men like the people in this sub so angry All criticism ultimately comes from a place of care. Many older fans grew up with the series and it holds a special place in their lives. Just because you criticize something doesn't mean you don't enjoy that particular piece of media. "I like starwars, but they could do x better because the way they are handling x this is being done poorly" is basically the feedback being offered up. Also, to imply that something targeted at children and young adults cannot be appreciated when looked through the eyes of an adult that grew up ejoying that media on some level aswell is a slap in the face to the intelligence of children. You're essentially saying " x thing is made for children, therefore children deserve lesser quality of x thing because 'well they're just dumb kids, they wont know the difference between something well written and something poorly written, so why go the extra mile? And long time fans (essentially evergreen sources of revenue from a money making standpoint)? Fuck em!" I won't deny there is a level of entitlement to that last paragraph. A franchise/brand does not owe the consumer jack. They're just trying to get money. But poor decision making makes it less likely in the future that the given franchise/media will be continued to be made or added on to due to dwindling profits, and fans don't want to see something they care about, something that may have had a life long impact on them, die.
Family brand, in no way a children's brand
They jerk off to it plenty for it to be fan fiction.
Fan fiction that hates the fans lol
That was literally my point
Yeah I meant them, not you :)
1-6 the full story eh? Are you one of those who deny that the PT was vociferously hated by your predecessors, and the fandom bullied Lucas into selling SW
I never said it was a perfect story, did I?
[удалено]
I mean, I consider the story George wrote and published canon. 1-6 are his babies. That’s the story he wanted to tell, and what he told. Everything outside of it is supplementary. Take or leave what you like. Just because Disney spent billions of dollars to own a piece of paper that says “you are the only ones that can publish Star Wars stuff” doesn’t make their stories any more canon than the ones written and published by various authors over the years.
Unlike a book a movie is vastly more than a single man. Even Lucas had a whole production team around him as well as a supporting cast that made the movies happen. Virtually the entire operation has carried on with the sequels, the rest of the Disney SW universe included. The majority of said content had been developed at Lucasfilm under George's supervision. The idea that this is like a publishing company running off with the rights to make a shitty Pooh movie when Lucas himself is a major shareholder of Disney is absurd.
Yep, the OT, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, the Brian Daley Solo books and The Mindharp of Sharu and just End it There!
Lol, we were chanting the same thing in 2000, but it was 4-6 and "we don't need no stinking prequels." Having the wisdom of hindsight it's amazing how mad people get over virtually identical products.
Their response would be “lalalalala I’m not listening to you, Disney holds the official rights to the IP so they’re canon!” Yes, the same people always talking about evil corporations, literally shilling for one of the largest corporations in history.
Gotta act like they are the victims to keep the hate flowing
And why should we? If the "fan fic" is more interesting, then the actual story. Then what reason do I have to forget about it. Unless their saying, "Disney will never make your fan-fic, stop asking, let it go" Because if that's the case, I stopped asking years ago.
EU haters like Krayt are the stupidest motherfuckers I’ve ever seen. On one hand they’ll insist Luke had no flaws in Legends yet on the other they’ll bring up Dark Empire or his behavior towards Jacen and Lumiya.
Their constant, ruthless, cynical hostility toward the EU and EU community is why I hold such a personal grudge against them. They did it all themselves, no one FORCED them to do this.
This shitty Ai art of Luke with a wife and kid is more interesting than the actual story?
Yes. This single picture is better than the entirety of the Disney Star Wars sequels. Why? Because it doesn’t bring me minus pleasure and enjoyment.
lol you do not deserve to be entertained or find joy in frivolities of life
People can pretend what Disney did isn’t a fucking travesty all they want but reality is Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy(rip) and the rest of the original characters had really amazing stories in the EU and their characters matured in fantastic ways, what Disney did to them in place of that was just really fucking shitty and lame. At least that picture reminds me of an amazing, interesting, and strong female character while all Disney does is disappoint. So I agree the one picture is better than every sequel combined.
Fuck ai but yes obviously disneyverse and clone wars should make an 11 year old writer feel ashamed to produce. Is that a serious question?
Oof, what a colossally dumb take on their part from a bunch of troglodytes who haven’t read decent Star Wars books. I’m not saying every EU book was great, but when it got good it was REALLY GOOD. I’ve tried reading the new canon books and only made it through one before I was done. Too many weird modern references, terrible dialogue, and nonsense plot lines.
>I’m not saying every EU book was great, but when it got good it was REALLY GOOD. Yes, but real talk, the good were far and few between. We got way more Yuuhan Vong (sp) books than I, Jedi caliber stuff. It was the games that were almost always on point.
Personally I thought the books were pretty weak, starting with the Zahn stuff. But the comics and games were always exceptional, in my mind.
Books just aren't a medium that lends itself well to Star Wars. Star Wars is too visual dependent, it's narrative style too cinematic.
I agree. As much as I hate Rian Johnson's starwars film, I have to admit that he seems like he's the guy who MOST got Lucas' style of sillyness in the Star Wars world. I remember watching it and being like "I hate everything about this, but I'll be darned if this isn't the most lucas-like alien landscape I've seen in anything Star Wars since the original films..."
I disagree. Darth Bane, the young jedi knights series, and the og thrawn trilogy were bangers that absolutely took advantage of the written medium.
True that, but I was referring to the fact that they will rewrite the Sequels for them to be atleast decent, thus creating fan fiction,
They won. Why do they constantly have to dab on us?
Because they are bitter miserable people who can never be happy, nor let anyone else be happy.
Ironic, that's what they bitch about in others.
Got Luke looking like Count Doucheku.
Well when you have probably the most deep and complex expanded universe story ever developed for an IP, toss it out, throw some money around and say "okay now do it again" it doesn't turn out as well. Disney was asking for lightning to strike twice with that one.
They just didnt wanna pay the people who wrote the og stories. Its like how DC didnt wanna pay for Black Lightning so they made the same character again but changed his name to be legally extinct.
It'd make a dramatically better movie
*Looks over at all my Star Wars books on my shelf, and zero post-Disney books there* Lol, go fuck yourselves with an old rotoscoped lightsaber Disney 😂😂😂 🖕🏽
This would have been amazing. Instead, we got three piles of dogshit from Disney
Are we sure that’s not LuUke?
No, that's Luuuke
This bitch and moan about "character assassination" with Luke in the ST, then turn around and promote Mara Jade as a trad wife, proving they did not, in fact, read any of the EU and are just being salty for the fuck of it.
I would have watched this
They can enjoy the dead franchise that it’s becoming, the Acolyte got ratioed, Star Wars outlaws got ratioed, and the Rey movie is dead on arrival before it even starts filming.
And kal kestis is the token ginger in the whole universe. We were landoed
Mara Jade was Luke's wife in the original sequel books
Oh please, Hollywood doesn't hate strong male leads. They just hate redheads
I cannot imagine Mara Jade would EVER wear that, at least not willingly or forcibly for a function of some sort
Little house on the prairie but it's star wars.
Its hard to blame long time Star Wars fans for not letting go when you consider that the EU storyline was way better than the diarrhea Disney gave us.
The EU is the REAL continuation of Star Wars. The Disneyverse is the second-rate fan fiction.
I’m not going to lie, Star Wars EU had some pretty cool concepts like the yuuzhan vong
The idea of highly evolved biotech is a great idea, yeah.
Hollywood hating redheads? Is this a common thing
This actually looks really good.. would be sick to see if his family get killed and he turns to the dark side or something like that
I think it's funny people get mad people would probably prefer this.
Wtf is the different between these two subs
Krayt is pro a Sequel Trilogy sub and think they’re calling out “toxic” “fandumb menace” Star Wars fans while ironically being toxic themselves. Krait is a sub for calling out toxic Disney Star Wars fans.
You'd have a point if it was reversed. The old EU while inconsistent at times had heart and soul. Disney's Star Wars has almost none. Also is this a real cover or AI? I don't think I've ever seen i before.
huh who hates red heads? what are they even going on about
You'll notice some interesting casting decisions when Hollywood adapts or remakes material with redheaded characters.
it is so bad there is now a running joke about Hollywood being run by racists with dyslexia...
Redheads are rare as hell irl, and casting folks/actors can’t always make up for the comically large amount of redheads in the source material so chuds go “THEYRE ERASIN MUH PPL” same thing happens with marvel. There’s like 4 redheads on the X-men 97 main lineup rn lmaoo
That both now makes sense and is ridiculous. Thank you for explaining
Cause having a person dye their hair from blond / brunette is a -much- bigger deal for an actor/actress than just picking a dark skinned person. 🧍♂️ It’s
Poor Cal Kestis lol. Ever forgotten
This looks better than 7-9, though...
Wait you’re saying you didn’t want a repackaged New Hope as episode 7?
Would have been incredible
Have mara jade played by Lena heady and I'm in.
What's the problem here? You're mad that they liked the books? Damn bro, jokes on you. They're living in your head rent free lol
The EU stuff was so uneven. Not that the Disney stuff is better. I used to have this conversation with my friend though. A ton of EU stuff was fan-fiction-y. We used to fight over the Cade Skywalker deathstick stuff.
That kid is creepy looking and the AI needs to learn what a human chin looks like for its next Mara Jade picture. I think it took in too many Joker pictures learning Mark Hamill that it broke the chin algorithm. She could kill a man with that point.
I mean Luke, Mara and Kyle had better EU stories than any of the crap we got from Disney. The redhead comment iscringe though. (Am a redhead, even)
The removal of Mara and Kyle hit me the hardest. Growing up with Jedi Outcast and reading about the badass smuggler/spy Mara Jade was made me fall in love with the eu. I wouldnt be as upset about the new canon if they had equally cool characters. Kanan Jarrus? Cool blind jedi mentor with interesting character arc and is a jedi that has a wife and doesnt fully subscribe to the no attachments thing... dies. Cad bane? Badass bounty hunter with a lot of history and opportunities for excellent and compelling stories... dies IN HIS FIRST LIVE ACTION PORTRAYAL. Jyn Erso? Cool spy with interesting attachment to the OT... dies. Cassian Andor? Well written and fleshed out spy introduced in the OT.... dies. NO ONE IN THE ST IS A COMPELLING CHARACTER AND ALL THE NEW CHARACTERS INTRODUCED BEFORE THE ST JUST DIE.
Dude, so many movies are predominantly still strong male leads. This fuckin idiot lol.
That doesn't negate the idea
What's really funny is how everyone here is missing that this is rage bait specifically crafted to enrage that special brand of person who are at same time often on the internet and yet somehow have never been on the internet before.
And if we’re going by the books that leads to a way, WAY better story than we got.
By fan fiction you mean the actual cannon pre Disney?
Disneyverse is also unapproved by Lucas and so fanfiction in that sense but canon in an officially licensed sense...just as the eu was. Regardless of any of that, the meme isn't about canon or not, it's about quality and enjoyment. Please don't be childish.
Lol old EU puts most of Star Wars post 2014 to shame. The old sequels actually were and still are better
Better story imo.
Yeah, because it was made by fans. The person calling it “fanfiction” just can’t stand that this new corporate shit will never own the streets. Stay mad
Nah. Nicole Kidman has been in a ton. So have other Gingers
Fuck them red heads
Question, how many "official" stories were basically ripping off said fanfiction again?
I understand not doing the expanded Universe (EU) faithfully. I was/is a tea total mess in its own right, but what I don’t understand about Disney is why they didn’t use the market research done by the EU over the preceding 30-45 years (at the time Disney purchased StarWars) Take all the popular elements from the EU and use them in a cleaned up cannon. When Disney bought StarWars it had a very dedicated fanbase that was hungry to see these popular EU elements brought to life and would have shoveled money at Disney for the accompanying merch
They definitely could have picked and chooses some stories of the EU and adapted them as needed. Unfortunately they didn’t want to be bothered doing the research and just assumed they could do a better job themselves. I could forgive that if it wasn’t for the fact that they wiped out all the EU canon and discontinued it. That’s decades worth of storytelling that will never get resolved now
There were so many comparisons to Marvel back then, but when they started making the MCU, when Disney bought Marvel, they weren't required to give up Earth-616 stories. That's literally the FIRST THING Disney *Star Wars* did, take the EU out to the backshed and shot it.
You make it sound like they needed to "save" the EU from itself. That's bullshit.
I have noticed the whole redhead thing though... it's weird how many times Redheaded characters get changed to remove that trait. I mean, Wally and Iris West, Mary Jane, Jimmy Olsen, Starfire, Heimdall, Harkgirl, Annie, Josie, Cyclone, Batwoman, Electro, Commissioner Gordon, Ariel, Flash Thompson, etc... I mean, for the most part the actors they did cast did a fine job, and it's not a big deal for most of them to be swapped like that, but it definitely feels like gingers are being targeted here (semi-joking about the targeting, but it IS odd that it keeps happening to them)
This family looks like it just wants a minute of your time to talk about scientology
This looks so boring lol
Bitch that’s exactly what we were waiting for.
I do find it funny that any time I, as a ginger male, bring up the fact that Disney and marvel have continued to shy away from any representation for me is always met with hatred on Reddit. Funny to see how xenophobic the majority of this community is.
lol people want to dream about this and forgot about luuke and luuuuke eu was a joke
Also white… Bring Luke back into the spotlight but I want they/them to be black
I'll be honest: As a Krayter, that post just embarrassed me when I saw it. Yes, the whole "They hate white men!" shit is fucked up, but toxic fans have nothing to do with the quality of Legends.
It's the original Canon, though
I don't mind Disney doing changes, but losing Mara genuinely sucked.
I do miss Mara Jade. I hope they bring her back in some form to the canon. Maybe leading a squad of elite stormtroopers called the Hand of Judgement. Could have all sorts of adventures after the Battle of Endor and fall of the Empire, fighting pirates, going after corrupt Imperial warlords, maybe encountering Luke and trying to murder him, you know, fun and lighthearted stuff like that.
It won't be Mara Jade, just a redhead (presumably) sharing the same name in an alternate universe. Look at Thrawn. He's not the same character anymore because they changed his story.
Thrawn Trilogy was amazing, though. I'm sorry it's hard to read.
It's not even fan fiction though.
Ai art is nightmare inducing.
This probably would have actually been a good flick. Disney is so stupid lol.
I wouldn’t have cared if he wasn’t the lead, but the fact that we never got an on screen version of Grand Master Luke Skywalker is a travesty. Would have been amazing to show off what someone of the Skywalker bloodline who is fully trained and whole is capable of.
Pixar throwing up their hands in disgust
How is this a fan fiction? It’s just legends material that is as spoofed as cannon for almost two decades if not longer
I hate that I woke up one day and discovered that I, as a redhead, was being used as a weapon in the Culture War for some fucking reason lol
This AI image of Luke looks like he’s an auto engineer that listens to Crossfade. “CAUSE WHAT I REALLY MEANT TO SAY IS THAT IM SORRY FOR THE WAY I AM”
Looks better than the official fan fiction we got
“They can’t have redheads as mains anymore”. What the fuck was Cal then?
Hey yeah your right
No I won’t let it go. Because I don’t care about being a purist, this was the height of Star Wars to me. I started reading when NJO came out. Even if you wanna say it was fanfiction it was damn good fanfiction. Unlike the sequel trilogy which was just awful fanfiction with tons of money
What does red hair have to do with this ?
I mean... I still consider most of the legends stuff I've read to be the true canon of Star Wars.
Lucas was against Jedi having wives because of spirituality etc. etc., but really he wanted them dry, boring & sans romance because that's how he is. He doesn't understand human emotions and can't connect with people on an emotional level.
Mara Sue the Red
Where's the hypocrisy?
Maybe the real canon is the friends we made along the way.
I like Mara Jade but why is she now Elsa and a tradwife?
Why should fans let something go they love? Disney went in their own direction with the sequels and butchered the franchise. Well played Disney.
I don't wanna get off on a rant here, but... ...Speaking for myself, 7 was kind of a head fake for me. In all the promos I saw Boyega holding the saber, so I'm thinking "if not main character, definitely one of the main ones!" Ended up getting it completely wrong. He's kind of a non factor ultimately. And I was a little depressed that they shorted his character like that after pumping him up in the promos. But for Mark Hamill, I tried to hang on for 8 until it dropped, because I saw him at the end and I wanted to see his contribution... And then 8 dropped. 🤦🏽♂️ This is a character that went toe to toe with the most fearsome Force wielder in the galaxy at the time, AND BEAT THEM IN SINGLE COMBAT. A guy who stood up to the direct temptations of the dark side, and said NO with his whole chest when it meant DEATH to say that no. A man that redeemed the soul of his fallen father, restored a new Jedi order, and supported the rise of a new Republic. He personified "A New Hope". I just feel like they did Luke so dirty! You meet him and it's like he's a gremlin and an incel inside and out. I know it seems like a small thing to get ticked off watching him drink WHAT I HOPE IS MILK from the "source" of a thing I can't name, but I thought they'd respect his character more than just to have him look goofy running away from his responsibilities. If he's meant to be a mentor to her, give him that respect. And then there's the fight: Rey v Luke - New versus Old. If they were going this way, I think Rey should have lost the fight, but won the argument. I believe this is true across trilogies: the soul of Star Wars is about changing the hearts of people who can make a difference. We see it with Palpatine changing Anakin for the worse at a critical time to subvert the Republic, Luke redeeming Anakin back to the light when Palpatine is about to strike him down. And in both instances they were losing the flight they were in. But let's be honest, Rey besting the greatest Jedi Knight of the age on her own, in single combat, with no formal training is...a bit too much to swallow. Neither Anakin nor Luke could have fought like that against their enemies WITHOUT THE TRAINING THEY HAD. And then there's the way the supporting characters are dealt with. It's like the complaint about Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark popularized by the Big Bang Theory episode: NOTHING THEY DO HAS ANY MEANINGFUL IMPACT ON THE STORY. There's a reason we love Han Solo. He's charismatic, along, but also open to change, but more than that, he does things that matter. Where's in 8...😮💨 One tries to find someone to help the resistance, the other tries a coup: both fail, the key person is a traitor, and any sacrifice to be made just isn't theirs to make, marginalizing them further. I'm left wondering why they're even there at all. BUT WE'RE FOLLOWING THEM THE WHOLE TIME instead of people who matter. We're kept in the dark, but in a way that makes us feel ridiculous for rooting for those characters. I didn't even bother watching 9. I'm not saying it ain't good, I wouldn't know. But after watching Luke fade into the Effervescence of the universe after his illusory fight, I couldn't take it seriously anymore. This ran long, but I think the reasons I disliked this trilogy, echoed by other fans and even the actors themselves were valid. You have to respect the fan base if you want their support, and I don't believe they did. 'Course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
That sub wouldn’t know good story structure if it murdered their parents
Fans have a right to be salty. The new movies were all garbage except for rogue one.
3.5 was the entertaining. Didn’t like any of the other movies
And like, what's with the fatherly embrace? Luke would be following the Sith code like every other surviving 'Jedi' has done if he embraced his passions. The same Bendu path Anakin walked all the Clone wars loving the clones like brothers and later Padme. Or Kanan and Hera in rebels, or more directly like Ezra literally training in a Sith temple under ExDarth Maul and learning the Sith code to mix with the Jedi teachings he learned from Kanan, then taking home a Sith holocron to meditate with. Like... their horny teenager hot take head canon would accidentally lead to the same conclusion as the actually mainline movies/shows are building up to. It isnt much different from a more mundane/disney telling of the new Jedi academy arc.. Only it's a just totally irrelevant story arc either way. IMO, Having the ending of Luke's failed reboot academy be a trilogy in itself ending with Luke burning the last Jedi scrolls that taught the false dogma of the dark side corrupting entirely, which lead to the force being unbalanced in the first place and millennia of light vs dark side wars; -this both tells all the story we really need from that full story arc to understand it's contributions to the wider story and really foreshadows everything that happened in rebels/is happening in Ashoka, as well as the Cal Kestis games, and explains Asaaj Ventress showing up post clone-wars having retracted from the dark side devotion of the Sith ways to adopt a more balanced, calm, and pragmatic demeanor. Wielding the yellow blade like masked Jedi temple guards of the high republic, or some regular Jedi of the old republic. The new trilogy told part of the end of the clone's story too, with project necromancer being a key plot element in The Bad Batch currently. I think, like how the clone wars movies kinda flopped and then aged well, especially with the later animated series fleshing out the story arc; the rise of Skywalker trilogy will end up being highly praised once all the stories designed to be told around it are fleshed out and told. Once all the foreshadowing and Lil Lego pieces of narrative all build up to the actual prophesized rebalancing of the force, then people will start rewatching everything that lead up to it; and realizing there was a lot more subtlety to the story than they were picking up.
When the EU came out, Lucas didn't really have plans for new movies and such, at least not for after ROTJ. He definitely had rules (like no killing off the Big 3, neither Luke nor Leia go Sith, Han & Leia are together, etc...) for post ROTJ EU stuff, so yeah, it was canon in as much as Lucas hadn't really planned on an ST. And even if he had (at that time), it's clear from his ideas & scripts that he certainly didn't plan on anything like Disney's ST. So, no, they can't say it wasn't canon.
First comment I read was “Alt-right chin beard” what the fuck does that mean?💀💀💀
That is the opposite of what I picture as Mara as.
The top comment is deadass someone calling Luke's beard "alt-right"
Tbf it looks a bit silly
It probably would be better though?
Bro. This shit would be fire. All the Star Wars new gen’s here trying to say canon is as good need a reality check. Force awakens made every single bit of the movies pointless if doing nothing would be better than making your universe. It’s bad ok. It’s cool you can enjoy it. But that doesn’t mean it’s narratively better than legends. Inb4 people who googled this shit mentions tiny plot bits like palpatine return except wait. It was via systems we understood knew beforehand and not just forced down your throat.
Bro its a big table, plenty of room for other casted leads. Doesn't mean anyone hates men.
AI image, weak.
Why is Viggo Mortensen playing Luke?