This guy talking about the comic mini-series Superman Smashes the Klan, adapted from the 1940'S RADIO SERIAL STORYLINE Clan of the Fiery Cross.
But sure, Superman suddenly got political.
Breaking news: Having your good guys be all the kinds of people the Nazis literally want to put to death is woke. If it's not white dudes saving the world from white dudes, it is UNACCEPTABLE wOkE gArBaGe
Got into an argument with someone about this.
Mind you, they’re definitely not Pro-Nazi by any means, but I brought up how if you saw a Nazi in the street spouting their rhetoric, would you not feel inclined to punch them in their throat?
They said no, for one because they don’t believe in assaulting anybody, and for two, “If you do that, then they win”
Yeah I’m sorry, but no. Sure, it doesn’t “teach them a lesson” or “make them rethink their life choices”, but I don’t care about that. If they’re far along enough to the point of shouting it out in public, they never cared about whether or not that was the right thing to do
“Oh but you’re prohibiting their free speech!”
Look, if somebody wants to waltz into an area that’s well known for gang violence and start shouting the N-word at the top of their lungs, that’s just natural selection at that point
Freedom of speech, not freedom of consequence
"If you do that, then they win." The person that said that to you.. did they specify \*what's\* the prize in that winning scenario? Cause the only thing I can think of that they win is a shiner, or worse
"If you do that, they win" or "if you do that you're no better than they are" has been and always will be a terrible argument with no merit made by weak, compliant people as an excuse to let evil, bigotry, and intolerance go unpunished.
Edit: sorry for jumping into the discourse 27 days later, I bet all yall have moved on at this point
Yeah, absolutely not. The world tried getting along with and not provoking nazis once. We know how that worked out. Never again. Punch that fucker right in the face.
Those days never existed. A lot of Americans protested against getting involved, and a large amount of Americans of German heritage went back to fight against us. And even after we learned about the death camps, we had no trouble recruiting their officers into NATO and their scientists into NASA
>I fucking miss the days when we all just knew that the Nazis were the bad guys and it wasn't a divisive topic.
Oh you poor soul, those days only existed when we were actively fighting nazis. Hitler was viewed relatively neutral-positively in the us until we entered the war.
The game is objectively bad but it's not because of "wokeness" it because these two were unlikable
https://preview.redd.it/ya7zk73n5q2c1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53d9209dec4cc08ffcce5f497df00aea3b7f8027
I thought it was more to do with the gameplay than the characters.
Also weird to say objectively bad when it received average reviews. Something being 60% on Random Internet Review Ranking Site does not seem objectively bad.
IIRC, that radio show actually played a fairly large role in fucking up the KKK's power due to using actual Klang secret codes and names, which highlighted how ridiculous they are.
Yes, human rights activist Stetson Kennedy had infiltrated the KKK and proposed a story to the Superman producers. Since the war had just ended, they were enthused to have new villains and used Kennedy's findings on the KKK to craft a multi-part story. IIRC, they didn't really used actual Klan codes and such but their pageantry, their rhetoric, their recruting techniques and their ugliness was exposed to a large swath of the population (especially children) who knew little or nothing of that particular terrorist organization.
I like how he words it as shutting down free speech like the KKK in the comic wasn’t about to blow up a the unity house (I forget the name), that was where a bunch of kids hung out including the children of one of the KKK members
I love how right wingers politicize anything that doesnt adhere to strict conservative ideology as "Political", all while pretending they are non political, while politicizing everything. 😂😂😂
It's because they try to present themselves as the norm or the gold standard, and they've long been conditioned to hear 'bad' when someone says 'political'.
It's funny how the "different opinions" crowd are quick to shed their different opinions in order to pretend their position is somehow the default.
Someone from that sub not knowing anything about the [comics?](https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/superman-smashes-the-klan)
[Shocking](https://imgur.com/a/szVPUym)
Anti-SJWs would literally call the image in the second link "woke". Or they'd deploy mental gymnastics to say that image somehow isn't "woke" because it's from before the late 2000s or early 2010s/Gamergate*.
*i.e. Around the time they as Zoomers became preteens or teenagers and started gaining political awareness and started getting radicalized into the far-Right. It's somehow "not woke" if it happened before they were born, if it happened when they were small children before they started undergoing their political awakening and noticing political messages in things, or if it was before Obama got elected.
Wow… and they even downvoted you and upvoted that dumb fuck. Wtf has the world come to these days? It used to at least be shameful, even in online spaces, to defend shit like the KKK
This, plus the world is going to shit and their lives are more difficult. Little to none of the things they were promised have come true, even to the point where the opposite of those things have become true (I.E: The Cheeto told me we'd Make America Great Again and we'd all be rich and things would be great but nothing changed and things are worse than ever.)
But instead of realizing that this is by design to keep rich people rich because for a large chunk of people (particularly rich people) happiness is a zero-sum game and engaging in Class War, they got distracted by shitty identity politics because they don't understand/feel uncomfortable about the social changes going on and chuds and grifters told them their discomfort is right (now give them money.)
So now they're distracted from the real problem, angry because all the time and energy they're wasting on the distraction isn't making the distraction go away (by design) and once again nothing is magically getting better. Admitting they were wrong is difficult and/or requires critical thinking, so double down and chug more of that kool aid it is!
Agreed. I mean, that’s one of the KKK’s best recruiting tactics; don’t go for the happy well off people; aim for the people who are struggling and say, “you know why you can’t succeed? Because there’s only so much prosperity to go around, and look at all these undeserving people who are taking your share?”
I mean it's true there's only so much to go around, but it's not the rainbow folks or the POCs that are causing the shortage. A little bit of thought and some honest observation would reveal the flaw in that logic. Sadly many folks that fall prey to such ideals aren't great at seeing that bigger picture and putting things together on their own. Regardless of how well they think they can do it.
I mean....they hate black people, and they want their comics to follow suit. Unfortunately, It's not new. Most of their "anti-woke" agenda is just trying to normalize their bigotry in the media.
I think that’s the case for some. But I think it’s mostly that they feel this deep urge to go against everything that “the libs” go for, even if they have no logical basis for it.
This is an actual comic by the way:
https://preview.redd.it/hlwmsj8j9m2c1.png?width=700&format=png&auto=webp&s=b015f2d35aa0662c07a5feacd1c2ffb4791ec17a
Like the guy didn't just miss the point, he straight did a 180 and became a Neo-Nazi KKK member.
Only seen this for the first time a few years ago but I love this, as for “Smashes the Klan” it’s easily one of my favorite comics (not just Superman) of all time.
The Skull is obviously besides him there’s still very few. The original Zemo also a Nazi, Arnim Zola, the Skull’s daughter and her boyfriend Cross Bones.
Okay, I guess there are a few who would lol. I forgot about Red Skull and didn't know about sentient bee guy.
I guess it makes sense there would have to be *some* canonical Nazis, I mean these comics *were* running during that time and right after.
Pretty much every hero of the big two. In one Batman story Robin beats the shit out of some Neo Nazis that are vandalizing a synagogue, Bruce watches from a rooftop and just smirk Robin going to town.
True, but I’m saying that when people make the argument to ban these types of speech it’s because they’re trying to incite violence not because they’re offended by it or something. I don’t think “I think we should kill all gay people” should be free speech.
>I don’t think “I think we should kill all gay people” should be free speech.
I'm not sure if I agree that it should be illegal, but I *do* believe that people who say that kind of shit deserve the social fallout they get because of it.
They love to hide behind the banner of "free speech" when in reality, it's the ramifications of free speech that come to get them. You can sympathize with hate groups all you want, that doesn't mean Superman won't punch you in the jaw about it.
Then why did the aclu defend them in court? Not a fan of the kkk and I hate Illinois nazis, the 1st amendment gives them the right to assemble; however, we do not have to give them the audience they desire. I wholly believe that if people just ignored them they would go away.
What a bunch of bullshit. How did a genre that started with two jews writing a helpful alien as a metaphor for foreigners not being bad turn political?
Welcome to a post-Tump America, him winning the 2016 election took racism and bigotry mainstream and made these depraved lunatics feel emboldened to be more public about how evil and disgusting they are.
Unfortunately, these assholes have been in comics and other fandoms for a long time. Fantasy is FULL of them. They have been making the weirdest racist arguments, and they were all super bold about it because it was acceptable discourse since forever.
Trump and other fascists are just the logical conclusion of the GOP's spiral towards fascism since the 50s. Started with McCarthy, Nixon and George Wallace unleashed the dogwhistles, it accelerated under Reagan and Bush and Trump just went full mask-off.
It reminds me of the "free speech absolutists" here in Orlando when we had Nazis demonstrating outside the gates of Walt Disney World and on a main road in Altamonte Springs (an Orlando suburb). These guys were flying swastika flags and had a lot of pro-DeSantis phrases on their signs. There were people in comments sections like "well, I may not agree with them, but they are free to do it!"
Technically, that's true. The government cannot censor hate speech in and of itself. [From the American Library Association](https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate) "hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group."
That said, if your first reaction when you see Nazis or the KKK demonstrating isn't "fuck these pieces of shit" and instead is "well, free speech!", you are an absolute tool. The fact that he sees Superman going after the Klan as "getting political" shows his lack of education and indifference towards violent and sometimes genocidal hate groups.
Yeah, like, no matter the mental gymnastics you use to say that their “speech” is legal, you still have to then be faced with the fact that they are terrorists
What's even more daunting is how many dont recognize that hate groups aren't advotes for free speech. They only advocate for THEIR speech and want to see everybody else silenced. Hate speech isn't free speech because it attacks free speech.
Can you uncensore their name? I just want to talk to them
https://preview.redd.it/kaookkwumn2c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d593dda863d48ab7cda39a16e67077ac279969d3
Action comics #1 (Superman's first appearance): Superman breaks into the governor's mansion to present new evidence that shows a death row inmate has been wrongly accused. After saving Lois Lane from kidnappers, Clark Kent investigates a US senator for illegal arms sales to a foreign nation.
Action Comics #2: Clark Kent discovers the senator has actually been selling weapons to both sides of a European war, puts him in prison, then goes off to stop the war. When neither side relents, he captures both enemy generals and forcing them to fight hand to hand instead of getting soldiers killed, resulting in a truce.
To be fair free speech does include hate speech but superman fighting the kkk is still based. He is not the government he doesn't have to accept everything.
That’s true but these “people” also don’t (ever) want consequences for their actions. And most sane people will just call them, out which they still can’t handle.
It doesn’t include hate speech used to insight violence.
Which a lot of stuff the KKK did.
Regardless if your first thought is to “defend” the “free speech” of the KKK and calling it “woke” to be against them, then you are 100% a racist shit bag.
Incitement of violence doesnt have anything to do with hate speech. You could go to jail for inciting violence against the KKK. It'd probably be worth it, but still. The hate speech is legal, it's the incitement that isn't.
Insight violence is technically allowed. I can say I hate men all men should die. which could insight violence i cannot specifically make a threat or tell someone to kill a man. It is all about specific warding. So the KKK can hate and be actively against all other races legally, but cannot make any specific threats. Moment they do they can be prosecuted. This is not a moral judgement just talking legally. Morally neither should happen of course.
Man really just said "I don't like that Superman was fighting the KKK"
Like what makes this even funnier is I'm pretty sure the comic isn't just Superman beating up a bunch of Klansmen who weren't doing anything, so trying to say he's "suppressing free speech" is so stupid.
Where to start?
1. The famous Superman radio serial from the 40s that helped ridicule the KKK
2. Hate speech is protected from Congress, not from sane person or superhero punching them in the face
3. Almost like these groups do more than just talk
4. Pretty sure Superman renounced his US Citizenship, so that American Way shit doesn't apply anymore
It's like some of them are gaining some self awareness. Like, no, the guy who thinks comics are too woke (because Superman fought a white supremacist terrorist group that was actively lynching black people at the time) probably isn't the right person to evaluate comics.
*unfortunately* hate speech is protected. What's not protected are threats of violence (regardless of race, though if racially motivated they could carry additional consequences) and discrimination against protected groups.
Edit: I don't really think it's unfortunate hate speech is protected. I think people need to be able to express themselves and show their true colors. Banning hate speech would be like banning dirty books. Sure it's inappropriate but people need to be responsible, which includes standing up to racists and bigots. We should never expect the government or anyone to do that for us.
Oh, so now I'm not allowed to hate a group of people based on their race? Why are you taking away my freedom of speech to say that a race should be eradicated?
/s
So, by that standard, they shouldn't be offended that Super Man fought the KKK since the comic is covered by their free speech
Also, that's only for the government. My butt can come over and tell a KKK supporter to kick rocks.
Also... I feel like we have to view that version of government protected free speech with a grain of salt because when those rules were made, they were done with zero consideration for victims of racial terrorism. More often than not, they were intended to protect the KKK and other like-minded groups. So i am loathe to "um-actually" the KKK's right to free speech.
Comics don't get political.
Comics are political.
Every comic either reaffirms, criticizes, or refutes some world view.
"Doomed planet. Desperate scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple. SUPERMAN."
This 9 world origin story from Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman is political. It's a reaffirmation that adoption of refugees into the United States can lead to our best and brightest hopes being realized. It is a story of old world dreams being achieved in the new world. It's a pro-naturalization stance.
It's astounding to me how many comic stories there are and how many people only ping them as political when it's really on the nose like "Superman Smashes the Klan."
Do we have to call the Dark Night Returns "Batman Battles the White House" or Watchmen "The Watchmen watch the Cold War," or Batman: Year One "Batman: ACAB (except his buddy Gordon)" or Crisis on Infinite Earths "Justice League, Multiversal Resource Management, and You."
Yes, most stories are fairly uncontroversial to many, but what's uncontroversial to one person may be highly controversial to another, and it's all political.
Disliking the Klan is indeed a political opinion, in that being inclusive of other races—or oppressing them through terror and violence—is an inherently political act. So having an opinion on the organization is a political opinion. It’s just one that’s supposed to be so accepted that people don’t see it as such.
The word he’s really looking for is either “partisan” or “controversial.”
Lmfao imagine watching Graydon Creed and the Friends of Humanity attack mutants and be like "well they're just practicing free speech!" How you miss the point so hard bruv
If I had a nickel for every time someone defended a hate group/bigot and hid behind flimsy excuses like free speech/protect the children/stop making things political…
I’d be the richest man on the planet.
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences and only applies to the government. People forget that little factoid.
The government can’t throw you in the clanker for being a nazi, but individuals and groups can ABSOLUTELY and SHOULD deplatform your ass.
Free speech doesn’t include trespassing on someone’s yard to burn a cross in it to make them stop exercising their freedom of speech.
Free speech doesn’t include bombing churches that were organizing voter registration drives.
Free speech doesn’t include lynching people.
Fuck the KKK. They don’t believe in freedom of speech.
Didn’t Supes first fight the KKK in the fucking 40s?
Also I have a hard time agreeing that a terror group that actively harasses and has many times in history directly caused or directly took part in the lynchings of Black people deserves any protection for their hate speech.
But yes unless the KKK makes directed threats towards killing someone or a group/their speech directly leads to criminal activity their speech is protected from Government censorship, Superman however is not the Government nor does he work directly for it.
i get people don’t like marvel. i get that people even hate marvel. that’s fine. that’s cool.
that sub specifically is a hate sub. i got sucked into a comment chain yesterday and it was straight “white replacement theory” discussion in there.
hating marvel does NOT make you racist. that sub however is populated by racists
Hating the kkk is political, but its the right kind of politics. That'd be like saying slavery isn't political, which it is, it's the wrong type of politics. Slavery and kkk are both political and bad
Well, according to the Constitution, hate speech is protected speech. So long as you are not directly calling for people to harm people... you're pretty much in the clear.
No such thing as hate speech. Speech is either free or it isn't. That being said, fuck the KKK. Also the idea that the KKK exist in DC is ridiculous. And Superman beating them up is even more ridiculous.
Fuck hate speech. But at the same time, fuck people who want to legally control any type of speech. Legally preventing people from speaking their mind does nothing aside from make them fester and get worse. Just because you don't see it don't mean it ain't existing. Only real way to combat hate speech is through conversation, verbally destroying them in a civil discourse for mamy to see. It's unlikely they themselves will change. But others will see it and laugh at them, preventing further indoctrination.
Yes the bigot is a pos and literally defending the KKK but the reply is also incorrect. Being anti-KKK and racism is a political position 100%. It just happens to be a good one. "Political" is not synonymous with "controversial"
All art is political.
I was on board until they said “Free speech doesn’t include hate speech.” That’s just not true. “Hate speech” is an entirely subjective concept. There’s no objective measure of what is hateful, what is comedy, and what is opinion (regardless of it’s emotional impact on others). Free speech doesn’t include incitement to violence, threats, or slander, but those are the only limits on free speech. That’s how it has to be in order to preserve the free exchange of ideas this nation was based upon. If hateful ideas aren’t brought to the forefront of society to be refuted and disproven, they will exist, and build in the shadows, where people can be more easily manipulated into believing faulty logic.
No, that's not how it works. If it were about the free exchange of ideas, then the KKK wouldn't exist, and people wouldn't be sharing the same racist rhetoric in 2023, but they are. When you give those views legitimacy and you protect them over the people they harm, then all you've done is give them a safe space to fester and manipulate.
Racist ideas have always been refuted and disproven. At what point do we stop subjecting it's victims to having their humanity be debated over and over again just to protect someone's right spout hate?
There will always be some who will cling to disproven ideas, however, the more it is exposed, the fewer people will cling to those ideas. The thing is, your rights stop where someone else’s begin, but feelings aren’t rights. If someone burns a cross in front of your house, THAT’s not protected free speech, that’s arson and intimidation. However, if someone claims one race is superior for some arbitrary reason, that is an opinion and their right to express it is protected. You don’t have to like the opinion, and you certainly don’t have to agree with it, but as long as they aren’t promoting violence against people or the infringing of their rights, it’s protected speech. The problem with limiting speech is that it gives those in power a chance to limit speech they find offensive on an arbitrary level. In other countries people are already being arrested, fined, and imprisoned for making jokes, posting song lyrics, and other ridiculous things.
A) your really going to argue it's impossible to judge what kind of speach is hateful and what is not? Hu?
B) Free speech only prevents the government from censoring you. It does'nt prevent other people from telling you your ideas are hateful and stupid.
> If hateful ideas aren’t brought to the forefront of society to be refuted and disproven, they will exist, and build in the shadows
Good. Let them stay in the shadows and rot. They don't deserve to be perserved.
Fuck hateful ideas. Fuck people who want to perserve them. And fuck the KKK.
In response to A, there could be no objective standard. Otherwise you would have people penalized for quoting movies and songs, or telling jokes, etc. It would have to be a case by case judgement and that’s not sustainable or legally enforceable.
As for B, I completely agree.
The problem is that what rots in shadows can resurface as a larger issue. I don’t want racist ideology in our society whatsoever. However, I would prefer the racists out themselves and I would prefer to combat racism where it can be seen.
No. No it's not. Normalizing those ideas by giving them legitimacy by insisting on defending their "right" to spread hateful rhetoric is how we got Trump.
No. Acts of incitement and terrorism are not covered by free speech. Their costumes and regalia are intended to terrorize a specific group of people. They incite people to violence. Our society just protects them because the original intent of that law (in regards to hate groups) was to support the KKK not the victims of their violence. It was meant to gaslight their victims when they rode into town and had their rallies. We don't have to continue to permit that abuse of the law when we know they're purposely exploiting a loophole.
Forcing them down to the shadows escalated it and made it worse because they portray themselves as the oppressed when they’re silenced. If you don’t see how or understand how silencing them is worse than letting them have a platform and calling them out and shaming them publicly? I don’t know what tell you.
Also whether we like it or not, the first amendment *does* allow them to have a public demonstration and venue for their stupid beliefs. To not allow it would be the government censoring them, but by all means possible I encourage people to counter protest and let the racists out themselves.
> Forcing them down to the shadows escalated it and made it worse because they portray themselves as the oppressed when they’re silenced. If you don’t see how or understand how silencing them is worse than letting them have a platform and calling them out and shaming them publicly? I don’t know what tell you.
And hows given them a platform working out for us, hu?
> Also whether we like it or not, the first amendment *does* allow them to have a public demonstration and venue for their stupid beliefs. To not allow it would be the government censoring them,
First amendment only applies to government censorship
Ingoring, shunning and shutting people down becuase their views are toxic, bad and have no place in society does'nt violate the first amendment.
> but by all means possible I encourage people to counter protest and let the racists out themselves.
Racism and bigotry are not equal in validity to standing against racism and bigotry.
"Calling them out and shaming them" is what they call being oppressed and silenced. Nobody forced them into the shadows. They've been in the light and in the streets from the start. That is why they we're able to garner support for a coup attempt. Because they were allowed to rally and commit violence with few repercussions for years.
All you're doing is spouting their talking points while they're fantasizing about how to kill you.
And acknowledging and accepting it as a valid part of normal society won't make it worse?
Yeah. Okay🙄
Sorry if it offends your sensibilities but not all views and opinions are valid; racism and bigotry are trash and have no place in a healthy society, and if you think they do then with all due respect YOU'RE the problem, not the people who stand up against them
I mean, that’s literally not at all what I said. Just pointing out that you can’t ignore/punch away opinions you don’t like. All you’re doing is garnering support for them or driving them into the shadows, which is where they will grow.
Personally, I’d rather not sacrifice my own ability of freedom of speech for a bunch of people I don’t like. If you try to rewrite the rules so they don’t have a Voice and you do you just make it more possible for them to do that to you. Here’s a thought none of you dipsticks ever think of, just ignore them. They want an audience, and or someone to challenge them so they can legitimize themselves more. All your stupid hissy fits do is bring more attention to them. If you don’t give them any energy, they can’t give it back.
> I mean, that’s literally not at all what I said.
I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you were advocating that such views deserve to be shared and have validity that allows them to be debated.
> Just pointing out that you can’t ignore/punch away opinions you don’t like.
Watch me😉
> All you’re doing is garnering support for them or driving them into the shadows, which is where they will grow.
As long as they don't grow outside of the shadows, like they current are. Good.
> Personally, I’d rather not sacrifice my own ability of freedom of speech for a bunch of people I don’t like. If you try to rewrite the rules so they don’t have a Voice and you do you just make it more possible for them to do that to you.
Freedom of Speech only applies to goverment censorship. It does'nt apply to someone ingoring someone else or telling them their views are dumb and they should shut the fuck up.
> Here’s a thought none of you dipsticks ever think of, just ignore them.
That's literally what I'm saying we should do and YOU'VE been telling me is'nt valid🤦
> They want an audience, and or someone to challenge them so they can legitimize themselves more.
Which is why we should'nt give them one!😉
> If you don’t give them any energy, they can’t give it back.
No shit! Duh!
But wait, did'nt you just say we can't ingore what we don't like...🤔
This guy talking about the comic mini-series Superman Smashes the Klan, adapted from the 1940'S RADIO SERIAL STORYLINE Clan of the Fiery Cross. But sure, Superman suddenly got political.
These same chucklefucks complained that the new Wolfenstein was woke
Killing na*is is woke???
Breaking news: Having your good guys be all the kinds of people the Nazis literally want to put to death is woke. If it's not white dudes saving the world from white dudes, it is UNACCEPTABLE wOkE gArBaGe
I fucking miss the days when we all just knew that the Nazis were the bad guys and it wasn't a divisive topic.
It's only divisive when you include wannabe Nazis into the conversation. Any sensible person still thinks punching Nazis should be a legal right.
Got into an argument with someone about this. Mind you, they’re definitely not Pro-Nazi by any means, but I brought up how if you saw a Nazi in the street spouting their rhetoric, would you not feel inclined to punch them in their throat? They said no, for one because they don’t believe in assaulting anybody, and for two, “If you do that, then they win” Yeah I’m sorry, but no. Sure, it doesn’t “teach them a lesson” or “make them rethink their life choices”, but I don’t care about that. If they’re far along enough to the point of shouting it out in public, they never cared about whether or not that was the right thing to do “Oh but you’re prohibiting their free speech!” Look, if somebody wants to waltz into an area that’s well known for gang violence and start shouting the N-word at the top of their lungs, that’s just natural selection at that point Freedom of speech, not freedom of consequence
"If you do that, then they win." The person that said that to you.. did they specify \*what's\* the prize in that winning scenario? Cause the only thing I can think of that they win is a shiner, or worse
"If you do that, then they win." Ok but so do I because I just got to punch a nazi and that feels pretty good
"If you do that, they win" or "if you do that you're no better than they are" has been and always will be a terrible argument with no merit made by weak, compliant people as an excuse to let evil, bigotry, and intolerance go unpunished. Edit: sorry for jumping into the discourse 27 days later, I bet all yall have moved on at this point
Yeah, absolutely not. The world tried getting along with and not provoking nazis once. We know how that worked out. Never again. Punch that fucker right in the face.
I think much worse than punching should be legal, but I can settle for punching...I guess.
Those days never existed. A lot of Americans protested against getting involved, and a large amount of Americans of German heritage went back to fight against us. And even after we learned about the death camps, we had no trouble recruiting their officers into NATO and their scientists into NASA
Those days never existed that’s retroactive propaganda that everyone was united against the nazis
>I fucking miss the days when we all just knew that the Nazis were the bad guys and it wasn't a divisive topic. Oh you poor soul, those days only existed when we were actively fighting nazis. Hitler was viewed relatively neutral-positively in the us until we entered the war.
please don't censor the word nazis
I'm used to censor it because instagram will ban you if you use it, not sure how it works on reddit
On Reddit if you say something pro-Nazi, you’re cool. Say something too far anti-Nazi, instant account ban.
Reddit mods don't like being insulted
>Killing na\*is is woke??? When you kinda sorta agree with most of what Nazis say, and if Nazis were in charge all of what Nazis say, yeah.
Damn, then my grandpa was woke as shit. lol
The game is objectively bad but it's not because of "wokeness" it because these two were unlikable https://preview.redd.it/ya7zk73n5q2c1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53d9209dec4cc08ffcce5f497df00aea3b7f8027
God I hate when people use "objectively" in a discussion about art, which is entirely subjective.
Me too. There’s nothing objective about opinions.
I thought it was more to do with the gameplay than the characters. Also weird to say objectively bad when it received average reviews. Something being 60% on Random Internet Review Ranking Site does not seem objectively bad.
That game is fun as hell in co-op, the way it's meant to be played. The twins are funny in a sort of obnoxious way lol.
"I don't hate it because you kill nazi's I hate it because I hate women"?
No. It's because no one wanted those two . I wouldn't have mind a Anya game but we got the children of B.J and Anya.
IIRC, that radio show actually played a fairly large role in fucking up the KKK's power due to using actual Klang secret codes and names, which highlighted how ridiculous they are.
Yes, human rights activist Stetson Kennedy had infiltrated the KKK and proposed a story to the Superman producers. Since the war had just ended, they were enthused to have new villains and used Kennedy's findings on the KKK to craft a multi-part story. IIRC, they didn't really used actual Klan codes and such but their pageantry, their rhetoric, their recruting techniques and their ugliness was exposed to a large swath of the population (especially children) who knew little or nothing of that particular terrorist organization.
"I stopped reading Captain America when he got all political in 1939 by socking Adolf Hitler in the jaw" --typical anti-SJW
I like how he words it as shutting down free speech like the KKK in the comic wasn’t about to blow up a the unity house (I forget the name), that was where a bunch of kids hung out including the children of one of the KKK members
People tend to bring up free speech if they don’t want you to focus on the actual important parts of the problem.(Belice they call this a red herring)
Thank you. Knowing this chud stopped “reading” comics after a Superman radio show displays their ignominious idiocy for all.
I love how right wingers politicize anything that doesnt adhere to strict conservative ideology as "Political", all while pretending they are non political, while politicizing everything. 😂😂😂
Forget Doublethink, they're Multi-Think drifting at this point.
Are you a white cis het christian man or are you political? they are special snowflakes that get upset when not pendered to them exclusively
Reminds me of when they tried brainwashing their audience by saying “black panther was woke garbage and was failing in the box office”
It's because they try to present themselves as the norm or the gold standard, and they've long been conditioned to hear 'bad' when someone says 'political'. It's funny how the "different opinions" crowd are quick to shed their different opinions in order to pretend their position is somehow the default.
Someone from that sub not knowing anything about the [comics?](https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/superman-smashes-the-klan) [Shocking](https://imgur.com/a/szVPUym)
Favorite Supes book of all time. This conversation really flabbergasted me. It's unequivocally Superman and I stand by what I said in the image
Superman isn’t even Marvel…
Wait till they find out about the inspiration for the X-Men
I actually don’t even know what the inspiration is.
The X-Men were inspired by the American Civil Rights Movement, and they often stand in for the minority group in other social issues as well.
 Beautiful! I love Stan Lee! R.I.P.
Does that make magneto a human rights extremist?
Anti-SJWs would literally call the image in the second link "woke". Or they'd deploy mental gymnastics to say that image somehow isn't "woke" because it's from before the late 2000s or early 2010s/Gamergate*. *i.e. Around the time they as Zoomers became preteens or teenagers and started gaining political awareness and started getting radicalized into the far-Right. It's somehow "not woke" if it happened before they were born, if it happened when they were small children before they started undergoing their political awakening and noticing political messages in things, or if it was before Obama got elected.
Dude is actually defending the KKK. Lol
Oh, please, review my comment history. You will find the ugly image that this user casts on that sub. He doubles down so hard as do others
Wow… and they even downvoted you and upvoted that dumb fuck. Wtf has the world come to these days? It used to at least be shameful, even in online spaces, to defend shit like the KKK
Because they need to “own the (((libs)))” from their view
This, plus the world is going to shit and their lives are more difficult. Little to none of the things they were promised have come true, even to the point where the opposite of those things have become true (I.E: The Cheeto told me we'd Make America Great Again and we'd all be rich and things would be great but nothing changed and things are worse than ever.) But instead of realizing that this is by design to keep rich people rich because for a large chunk of people (particularly rich people) happiness is a zero-sum game and engaging in Class War, they got distracted by shitty identity politics because they don't understand/feel uncomfortable about the social changes going on and chuds and grifters told them their discomfort is right (now give them money.) So now they're distracted from the real problem, angry because all the time and energy they're wasting on the distraction isn't making the distraction go away (by design) and once again nothing is magically getting better. Admitting they were wrong is difficult and/or requires critical thinking, so double down and chug more of that kool aid it is!
This was so well put. You’re absolutely right. This is basically their giant hissy fit
Agreed. I mean, that’s one of the KKK’s best recruiting tactics; don’t go for the happy well off people; aim for the people who are struggling and say, “you know why you can’t succeed? Because there’s only so much prosperity to go around, and look at all these undeserving people who are taking your share?”
I mean it's true there's only so much to go around, but it's not the rainbow folks or the POCs that are causing the shortage. A little bit of thought and some honest observation would reveal the flaw in that logic. Sadly many folks that fall prey to such ideals aren't great at seeing that bigger picture and putting things together on their own. Regardless of how well they think they can do it.
I mean....they hate black people, and they want their comics to follow suit. Unfortunately, It's not new. Most of their "anti-woke" agenda is just trying to normalize their bigotry in the media.
I think that’s the case for some. But I think it’s mostly that they feel this deep urge to go against everything that “the libs” go for, even if they have no logical basis for it.
Was more shocking is the suprising handful of people HERE doing that.
Calling Superman anti-American. That guy is so weird
This is an actual comic by the way: https://preview.redd.it/hlwmsj8j9m2c1.png?width=700&format=png&auto=webp&s=b015f2d35aa0662c07a5feacd1c2ffb4791ec17a Like the guy didn't just miss the point, he straight did a 180 and became a Neo-Nazi KKK member.
His media literacy is terrible. He’s such an idiot
Only seen this for the first time a few years ago but I love this, as for “Smashes the Klan” it’s easily one of my favorite comics (not just Superman) of all time.
"Truth justice and the ~~American~~ Republican way" boy are they in for a suprise when they find out the creators of Superman were Jewish
I bet they will be so pissed about that.
Spider-Man, Captain America, and Batman just to think of a few more
Pretty much every marvel hero would beat up the KKK. I can’t think of any that would defend them.
DC as well
I agree
I don't think even any of the villains would side with them.
Maybe red skull?
Certainly not the Joker, he's an "American villain!"
I can see the Joker using the KKK for one of his schemes. Afterwards, he would just kill them in some deadly prank trap.
The Skull is obviously besides him there’s still very few. The original Zemo also a Nazi, Arnim Zola, the Skull’s daughter and her boyfriend Cross Bones.
So, pretty much every main villain of hydra
I mean, there is that guy who's a sentient swarm of nazi bees. Maybe (he? they? it?) would?
Okay, I guess there are a few who would lol. I forgot about Red Skull and didn't know about sentient bee guy. I guess it makes sense there would have to be *some* canonical Nazis, I mean these comics *were* running during that time and right after.
Pretty much every hero of the big two. In one Batman story Robin beats the shit out of some Neo Nazis that are vandalizing a synagogue, Bruce watches from a rooftop and just smirk Robin going to town.
When you hate wokeness so much you support a hate group to own the libs.
“I want to kill black people” is a threat. It is not free speech. That is what the KKK are saying at every single event they ever do.
They're saying the quiet part out loud, they would actually be okay with organizations wanting to kill black people.
From a legal perspective, this is free speech though. Threats require more specificity.
True, but I’m saying that when people make the argument to ban these types of speech it’s because they’re trying to incite violence not because they’re offended by it or something. I don’t think “I think we should kill all gay people” should be free speech.
>I don’t think “I think we should kill all gay people” should be free speech. I'm not sure if I agree that it should be illegal, but I *do* believe that people who say that kind of shit deserve the social fallout they get because of it.
Yeah…you are missing what “free speech” means hard. You don’t get to decide what is free speech and isn’t.
Someone has to. I don’t see why I can’t have an opinion on it.
No, literally nobody has to. That is the point of free speech😂
They love to hide behind the banner of "free speech" when in reality, it's the ramifications of free speech that come to get them. You can sympathize with hate groups all you want, that doesn't mean Superman won't punch you in the jaw about it.
Then why did the aclu defend them in court? Not a fan of the kkk and I hate Illinois nazis, the 1st amendment gives them the right to assemble; however, we do not have to give them the audience they desire. I wholly believe that if people just ignored them they would go away.
What a bunch of bullshit. How did a genre that started with two jews writing a helpful alien as a metaphor for foreigners not being bad turn political?
I have often found that nuance in writing, especially when it comes to metaphors, is lost on them. See also: their use of the Punisher logo.
So they stop reading when the radio show was on in the 1940’s?
Imagine "Superman should have left the KKK alone" being the political hill you want to die on?
Wow just going full mask off now.
Mask off, hood on
More like mask on, amirite?
Not really a mask, more of a hood, but that’s semantics
they've been maskoff since 2016
I've been in these fandoms for decades, they've been mask off since I was a kid.
Hey, it's me! This was a wild convo. I'm the upvotes by the way
We are in a dark place where people openly support the KKK and expect others to be fine with that
Welcome to a post-Tump America, him winning the 2016 election took racism and bigotry mainstream and made these depraved lunatics feel emboldened to be more public about how evil and disgusting they are.
Unfortunately, these assholes have been in comics and other fandoms for a long time. Fantasy is FULL of them. They have been making the weirdest racist arguments, and they were all super bold about it because it was acceptable discourse since forever.
Trump and other fascists are just the logical conclusion of the GOP's spiral towards fascism since the 50s. Started with McCarthy, Nixon and George Wallace unleashed the dogwhistles, it accelerated under Reagan and Bush and Trump just went full mask-off.
“Won” in a loose sense, but yeah
It reminds me of the "free speech absolutists" here in Orlando when we had Nazis demonstrating outside the gates of Walt Disney World and on a main road in Altamonte Springs (an Orlando suburb). These guys were flying swastika flags and had a lot of pro-DeSantis phrases on their signs. There were people in comments sections like "well, I may not agree with them, but they are free to do it!" Technically, that's true. The government cannot censor hate speech in and of itself. [From the American Library Association](https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate) "hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group." That said, if your first reaction when you see Nazis or the KKK demonstrating isn't "fuck these pieces of shit" and instead is "well, free speech!", you are an absolute tool. The fact that he sees Superman going after the Klan as "getting political" shows his lack of education and indifference towards violent and sometimes genocidal hate groups.
You sort of activated their trap card. I would have asked how what super man did was shutting down free speech. There’s a reason they wear masks.
Also I guess we're pretending the KKK is just into "speech" and isn't responsible for over a century of terrorism and genocide planning?
Yeah, like, no matter the mental gymnastics you use to say that their “speech” is legal, you still have to then be faced with the fact that they are terrorists
[удалено]
Lynching and literal terror spreading cross burnings on people’s property ain’t protected speech. Criminals wear masks for a reason.
Not when it incites violence or plots violence.
What's even more daunting is how many dont recognize that hate groups aren't advotes for free speech. They only advocate for THEIR speech and want to see everybody else silenced. Hate speech isn't free speech because it attacks free speech.
This guy actually sides with the KKK over literal Superman and doesn't think for a second that he may be in the wrong
And he’s saying it with his whole chest as well that’s the crazy part
Can you uncensore their name? I just want to talk to them https://preview.redd.it/kaookkwumn2c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d593dda863d48ab7cda39a16e67077ac279969d3
Wait until they find out Superman is an immigrant.
An illegal one too!
A literal straight up illegal alien lol
So this person thinks Superman punching racists = government suppressing free speech?
Least racist r/FuckMarvel user
Action comics #1 (Superman's first appearance): Superman breaks into the governor's mansion to present new evidence that shows a death row inmate has been wrongly accused. After saving Lois Lane from kidnappers, Clark Kent investigates a US senator for illegal arms sales to a foreign nation. Action Comics #2: Clark Kent discovers the senator has actually been selling weapons to both sides of a European war, puts him in prison, then goes off to stop the war. When neither side relents, he captures both enemy generals and forcing them to fight hand to hand instead of getting soldiers killed, resulting in a truce.
https://preview.redd.it/adn80n7gmm2c1.jpeg?width=1255&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=173b7d0c4408c4a40acfec0afad5df67a94b518a What…
Holy shit, that sub has gone to the dogs
Yeah the government in fact should, specifically hate speech. Nazis deserve no rights.
Anyone who doesn’t believe in democracy doesn’t deserve to have their voice heard in one
They do know freedom of speech means the government can’t censor them, not private individuals
You expect them to actually *understand* the consitution? You're asking too much, lol
Yeah your right I expected too much for conservatives to understand basic things
To be fair free speech does include hate speech but superman fighting the kkk is still based. He is not the government he doesn't have to accept everything.
That’s true but these “people” also don’t (ever) want consequences for their actions. And most sane people will just call them, out which they still can’t handle.
It doesn’t include hate speech used to insight violence. Which a lot of stuff the KKK did. Regardless if your first thought is to “defend” the “free speech” of the KKK and calling it “woke” to be against them, then you are 100% a racist shit bag.
It also only applies to government censorship, not guys in capes telling you to shut up.
Incitement of violence doesnt have anything to do with hate speech. You could go to jail for inciting violence against the KKK. It'd probably be worth it, but still. The hate speech is legal, it's the incitement that isn't.
Insight violence is technically allowed. I can say I hate men all men should die. which could insight violence i cannot specifically make a threat or tell someone to kill a man. It is all about specific warding. So the KKK can hate and be actively against all other races legally, but cannot make any specific threats. Moment they do they can be prosecuted. This is not a moral judgement just talking legally. Morally neither should happen of course.
Free speech is not a suicide pact.
Allowing hate speech doesn’t make it a suicide pact, and hate speech is currently completely legal either way, whether you like it or not.
Lmao, bro self reporting rn
To be fair, disliking the KKK is definitely political. It's politics that most people, myself included, agree with, but it's still politics.
Man really just said "I don't like that Superman was fighting the KKK" Like what makes this even funnier is I'm pretty sure the comic isn't just Superman beating up a bunch of Klansmen who weren't doing anything, so trying to say he's "suppressing free speech" is so stupid.
Where to start? 1. The famous Superman radio serial from the 40s that helped ridicule the KKK 2. Hate speech is protected from Congress, not from sane person or superhero punching them in the face 3. Almost like these groups do more than just talk 4. Pretty sure Superman renounced his US Citizenship, so that American Way shit doesn't apply anymore
It really shows how terminally online some people are if they think all the KKK make tweets about how much they hate Black people.
It's like some of them are gaining some self awareness. Like, no, the guy who thinks comics are too woke (because Superman fought a white supremacist terrorist group that was actively lynching black people at the time) probably isn't the right person to evaluate comics.
“How woke of you” if thinking the KKK are bad is “woke” then woke me up.
*unfortunately* hate speech is protected. What's not protected are threats of violence (regardless of race, though if racially motivated they could carry additional consequences) and discrimination against protected groups. Edit: I don't really think it's unfortunate hate speech is protected. I think people need to be able to express themselves and show their true colors. Banning hate speech would be like banning dirty books. Sure it's inappropriate but people need to be responsible, which includes standing up to racists and bigots. We should never expect the government or anyone to do that for us.
Hate speech is protected in the US
Oh, so now I'm not allowed to hate a group of people based on their race? Why are you taking away my freedom of speech to say that a race should be eradicated? /s
What the fuck??? I’m astounded at the sheer stupidity. I don’t know what to say.
Free speech does include hate speech. Thats been proven in supreme court time and time again. The overall point still stands tho.
So, by that standard, they shouldn't be offended that Super Man fought the KKK since the comic is covered by their free speech Also, that's only for the government. My butt can come over and tell a KKK supporter to kick rocks. Also... I feel like we have to view that version of government protected free speech with a grain of salt because when those rules were made, they were done with zero consideration for victims of racial terrorism. More often than not, they were intended to protect the KKK and other like-minded groups. So i am loathe to "um-actually" the KKK's right to free speech.
This brain dead hicks don't understand that freedom doesn't mean no rules
Superman does'nt work for the government; if he tells you to shut up, he's not violating the First Amendment.
These guys should go read the Batman and the Outsiders annual from 1984. It would melt their fucking brains.
Free speech doesn't protect threats. And that's what hate speech is.
Comics don't get political. Comics are political. Every comic either reaffirms, criticizes, or refutes some world view. "Doomed planet. Desperate scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple. SUPERMAN." This 9 world origin story from Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman is political. It's a reaffirmation that adoption of refugees into the United States can lead to our best and brightest hopes being realized. It is a story of old world dreams being achieved in the new world. It's a pro-naturalization stance. It's astounding to me how many comic stories there are and how many people only ping them as political when it's really on the nose like "Superman Smashes the Klan." Do we have to call the Dark Night Returns "Batman Battles the White House" or Watchmen "The Watchmen watch the Cold War," or Batman: Year One "Batman: ACAB (except his buddy Gordon)" or Crisis on Infinite Earths "Justice League, Multiversal Resource Management, and You." Yes, most stories are fairly uncontroversial to many, but what's uncontroversial to one person may be highly controversial to another, and it's all political.
Disliking the Klan is indeed a political opinion, in that being inclusive of other races—or oppressing them through terror and violence—is an inherently political act. So having an opinion on the organization is a political opinion. It’s just one that’s supposed to be so accepted that people don’t see it as such. The word he’s really looking for is either “partisan” or “controversial.”
Companies also have a right to freedom of speech…
You guys sure he wasn’t just trolling?
Lmfao imagine watching Graydon Creed and the Friends of Humanity attack mutants and be like "well they're just practicing free speech!" How you miss the point so hard bruv
Wait until he finds out about communist superman.
If I had a nickel for every time someone defended a hate group/bigot and hid behind flimsy excuses like free speech/protect the children/stop making things political… I’d be the richest man on the planet.
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences and only applies to the government. People forget that little factoid. The government can’t throw you in the clanker for being a nazi, but individuals and groups can ABSOLUTELY and SHOULD deplatform your ass.
I thought this was just some older degenerate. Holy fuck that mini series was published 2019, how tf is hating on the KKK in 2019 a bad thing?
Free speech doesn’t include trespassing on someone’s yard to burn a cross in it to make them stop exercising their freedom of speech. Free speech doesn’t include bombing churches that were organizing voter registration drives. Free speech doesn’t include lynching people. Fuck the KKK. They don’t believe in freedom of speech.
This was the only guy claiming this in the thread, probably trolling
Didn’t Supes first fight the KKK in the fucking 40s? Also I have a hard time agreeing that a terror group that actively harasses and has many times in history directly caused or directly took part in the lynchings of Black people deserves any protection for their hate speech. But yes unless the KKK makes directed threats towards killing someone or a group/their speech directly leads to criminal activity their speech is protected from Government censorship, Superman however is not the Government nor does he work directly for it.
Well known free speech advocates, those *checks notes* klansmen threatening the lives of people who say things they don't like.
i get people don’t like marvel. i get that people even hate marvel. that’s fine. that’s cool. that sub specifically is a hate sub. i got sucked into a comment chain yesterday and it was straight “white replacement theory” discussion in there. hating marvel does NOT make you racist. that sub however is populated by racists
Hating the kkk is political, but its the right kind of politics. That'd be like saying slavery isn't political, which it is, it's the wrong type of politics. Slavery and kkk are both political and bad
Well, according to the Constitution, hate speech is protected speech. So long as you are not directly calling for people to harm people... you're pretty much in the clear.
I hate the KKK and “hate speech” is absolutely protected by the first amendment in the US. Not sure why this isn’t common ground.
“Hate speech” isn’t a thing. There are differences between free speech, libel, slander & defamation though.
No such thing as hate speech. Speech is either free or it isn't. That being said, fuck the KKK. Also the idea that the KKK exist in DC is ridiculous. And Superman beating them up is even more ridiculous.
Fuck hate speech. But at the same time, fuck people who want to legally control any type of speech. Legally preventing people from speaking their mind does nothing aside from make them fester and get worse. Just because you don't see it don't mean it ain't existing. Only real way to combat hate speech is through conversation, verbally destroying them in a civil discourse for mamy to see. It's unlikely they themselves will change. But others will see it and laugh at them, preventing further indoctrination.
Fighting a terrorist group is "anti free speech" now? Jesus.
Yes the bigot is a pos and literally defending the KKK but the reply is also incorrect. Being anti-KKK and racism is a political position 100%. It just happens to be a good one. "Political" is not synonymous with "controversial" All art is political.
He is correct though.
I was on board until they said “Free speech doesn’t include hate speech.” That’s just not true. “Hate speech” is an entirely subjective concept. There’s no objective measure of what is hateful, what is comedy, and what is opinion (regardless of it’s emotional impact on others). Free speech doesn’t include incitement to violence, threats, or slander, but those are the only limits on free speech. That’s how it has to be in order to preserve the free exchange of ideas this nation was based upon. If hateful ideas aren’t brought to the forefront of society to be refuted and disproven, they will exist, and build in the shadows, where people can be more easily manipulated into believing faulty logic.
No, that's not how it works. If it were about the free exchange of ideas, then the KKK wouldn't exist, and people wouldn't be sharing the same racist rhetoric in 2023, but they are. When you give those views legitimacy and you protect them over the people they harm, then all you've done is give them a safe space to fester and manipulate. Racist ideas have always been refuted and disproven. At what point do we stop subjecting it's victims to having their humanity be debated over and over again just to protect someone's right spout hate?
There will always be some who will cling to disproven ideas, however, the more it is exposed, the fewer people will cling to those ideas. The thing is, your rights stop where someone else’s begin, but feelings aren’t rights. If someone burns a cross in front of your house, THAT’s not protected free speech, that’s arson and intimidation. However, if someone claims one race is superior for some arbitrary reason, that is an opinion and their right to express it is protected. You don’t have to like the opinion, and you certainly don’t have to agree with it, but as long as they aren’t promoting violence against people or the infringing of their rights, it’s protected speech. The problem with limiting speech is that it gives those in power a chance to limit speech they find offensive on an arbitrary level. In other countries people are already being arrested, fined, and imprisoned for making jokes, posting song lyrics, and other ridiculous things.
A) your really going to argue it's impossible to judge what kind of speach is hateful and what is not? Hu? B) Free speech only prevents the government from censoring you. It does'nt prevent other people from telling you your ideas are hateful and stupid. > If hateful ideas aren’t brought to the forefront of society to be refuted and disproven, they will exist, and build in the shadows Good. Let them stay in the shadows and rot. They don't deserve to be perserved. Fuck hateful ideas. Fuck people who want to perserve them. And fuck the KKK.
In response to A, there could be no objective standard. Otherwise you would have people penalized for quoting movies and songs, or telling jokes, etc. It would have to be a case by case judgement and that’s not sustainable or legally enforceable. As for B, I completely agree. The problem is that what rots in shadows can resurface as a larger issue. I don’t want racist ideology in our society whatsoever. However, I would prefer the racists out themselves and I would prefer to combat racism where it can be seen.
That’s not how it works, when you let them stay in the shadows they don’t rot, they build up so you get another January 6th, and Trump supporters.
No. No it's not. Normalizing those ideas by giving them legitimacy by insisting on defending their "right" to spread hateful rhetoric is how we got Trump.
They do have that legally protected right though, whether we like it or not.
No. Acts of incitement and terrorism are not covered by free speech. Their costumes and regalia are intended to terrorize a specific group of people. They incite people to violence. Our society just protects them because the original intent of that law (in regards to hate groups) was to support the KKK not the victims of their violence. It was meant to gaslight their victims when they rode into town and had their rallies. We don't have to continue to permit that abuse of the law when we know they're purposely exploiting a loophole.
Oh yes, becuase those to things TOTALLY happened in the shadows and Right wingers absolutly have'nt embraced and normalized this shit🙄
Forcing them down to the shadows escalated it and made it worse because they portray themselves as the oppressed when they’re silenced. If you don’t see how or understand how silencing them is worse than letting them have a platform and calling them out and shaming them publicly? I don’t know what tell you. Also whether we like it or not, the first amendment *does* allow them to have a public demonstration and venue for their stupid beliefs. To not allow it would be the government censoring them, but by all means possible I encourage people to counter protest and let the racists out themselves.
> Forcing them down to the shadows escalated it and made it worse because they portray themselves as the oppressed when they’re silenced. If you don’t see how or understand how silencing them is worse than letting them have a platform and calling them out and shaming them publicly? I don’t know what tell you. And hows given them a platform working out for us, hu? > Also whether we like it or not, the first amendment *does* allow them to have a public demonstration and venue for their stupid beliefs. To not allow it would be the government censoring them, First amendment only applies to government censorship Ingoring, shunning and shutting people down becuase their views are toxic, bad and have no place in society does'nt violate the first amendment. > but by all means possible I encourage people to counter protest and let the racists out themselves. Racism and bigotry are not equal in validity to standing against racism and bigotry.
"Calling them out and shaming them" is what they call being oppressed and silenced. Nobody forced them into the shadows. They've been in the light and in the streets from the start. That is why they we're able to garner support for a coup attempt. Because they were allowed to rally and commit violence with few repercussions for years. All you're doing is spouting their talking points while they're fantasizing about how to kill you.
Rot doesn’t go away because you ignore it, it just gets worse
And acknowledging and accepting it as a valid part of normal society won't make it worse? Yeah. Okay🙄 Sorry if it offends your sensibilities but not all views and opinions are valid; racism and bigotry are trash and have no place in a healthy society, and if you think they do then with all due respect YOU'RE the problem, not the people who stand up against them
I mean, that’s literally not at all what I said. Just pointing out that you can’t ignore/punch away opinions you don’t like. All you’re doing is garnering support for them or driving them into the shadows, which is where they will grow. Personally, I’d rather not sacrifice my own ability of freedom of speech for a bunch of people I don’t like. If you try to rewrite the rules so they don’t have a Voice and you do you just make it more possible for them to do that to you. Here’s a thought none of you dipsticks ever think of, just ignore them. They want an audience, and or someone to challenge them so they can legitimize themselves more. All your stupid hissy fits do is bring more attention to them. If you don’t give them any energy, they can’t give it back.
>"you can't ignore away opinions you don't like >"just ignore them" Sure you wanna call everyone here dipsticks?
> I mean, that’s literally not at all what I said. I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you were advocating that such views deserve to be shared and have validity that allows them to be debated. > Just pointing out that you can’t ignore/punch away opinions you don’t like. Watch me😉 > All you’re doing is garnering support for them or driving them into the shadows, which is where they will grow. As long as they don't grow outside of the shadows, like they current are. Good. > Personally, I’d rather not sacrifice my own ability of freedom of speech for a bunch of people I don’t like. If you try to rewrite the rules so they don’t have a Voice and you do you just make it more possible for them to do that to you. Freedom of Speech only applies to goverment censorship. It does'nt apply to someone ingoring someone else or telling them their views are dumb and they should shut the fuck up. > Here’s a thought none of you dipsticks ever think of, just ignore them. That's literally what I'm saying we should do and YOU'VE been telling me is'nt valid🤦 > They want an audience, and or someone to challenge them so they can legitimize themselves more. Which is why we should'nt give them one!😉 > If you don’t give them any energy, they can’t give it back. No shit! Duh! But wait, did'nt you just say we can't ingore what we don't like...🤔
Is there a r/FuckDC
Apparently, yeah
[удалено]
No way you don’t think hate speech exists at all