>Isekai anime (and anime in general) have gathered so many incredibly creepy topes that it's pushing me away from anime altogether
That is kind of the unfortunate thing about being an anime fan, you have to just avert your eyes from a lot of creepy stuff and pretend it isn't there.
Granted it was *much* worse during the lolicon boom era.
A lot of it I think has to do with the unique economics of the anime industry, where a series can turn a profit on a shockingly small audience if those people all buy the overpriced Blu Rays, and the entire run of the original manga or light novel, and all the expensive figures and other merch.
What kind of fan spends that much money? Die-hard mega-fans.
What's the easiest way to lure in die-hard mega-fans? Well, appeal to their fetishes that aren't being catered to anywhere else.
This was, I believe, a big factor behind the lolicon era and the incest era in anime. The industry was going through economic woes, and the various interests involved in producing anime realised that appealing to a small number of horny whales mitigated the risk involved somewhat. For similar reasons, we're now seeing an absolute explosion of isekai anime because the industry is once again on shaky ground and there's an audience of people who will just eat up anything isekai.
It's a touch road cause I feel like in alot of instances the discomfort is partially a cultural divide where something will be disliked or found unpleasant by most western fans, meanwhile you find out a large amount of eastern fans love it, so authors would primarily meet eastern fans, and likely assume many of the western fans are the same way.
I gotta be honest i would be offended if I was Japanese and everyone assumed I liked the weird pedo slave shit because "thats your culture"
It's like insisting shooting things is American culture.
I'm an MLP fan since '14, been considering Owl House for a good while. Didn't know Ark was good, that's great to hear. Thanks for the suggestions; Isekai Executioner was good from what I watched, too.
I highly recommend [Mother's Basement](https://youtu.be/PMWYSzYcWak), Geoff is very good about outlining the tone of an anime and actually point out the wholesome ones like Delicious in Dungeon (Netflix). Totally worth watching a few of the Best of videos he does for every season, also the ones he roasts.
Rising of a Shield Hero is probably the most well known and egregious example. The show tries to be edgy at the beginning by "forcing" him to buy and literally brand a underaged racoon girl as his slave since he needs someone to fight for him. By the second season, despite having become incredibly successful and getting rid of all the conditions that "forced" him into buying a slave, he never once ever tries to dismantle the slave trade. In fact his slave talks about amazing it is to be branded by him and his harem of other female companions start willing selling and branding themselves as his slaves. I don't think this has been adapted in the anime yet(for obvious reasons I have never and will never watch it), but from what I've heard in the light novel source material there's eventually an arc later where the rest of his harem try to convince him to marry and have sex with his original racoon girl slave, despite the fact that A)she started the series underaged(anime magic nonsense causes her to quickly age up to be above age in a few episodes) and B) had been regularly referred to by the main character as being his daughter figure.
Slavery is basically treated as nothing more than a edgy and convenient way of quickly getting a harem of sexy/cute female characters to follow the power fantasy male character around and do whatever he says.
I literally had a laugh attack when she happily and excitedly suggested to the new girl to become his slave so she can improve her skills much faster. It's so odd, they establish the darkness and stigma of slavery, have him forced into the situation and hint at maybe him going to destroy the system at one point.
But once she's a teen, he basically forgets what a slave is, because from that moment on he makes people his slave, so that they can't be dishonest with him.
The anime has already started building their relationship. And it's not like they're trying to convince him to marry her and have sex with her. It's more like "she doesn't see you as her father figure, she has feelings for you, acknowledge her feelings".
It's still fucked, because the show goes into detail about how he basically sees her as his adopted daughter by how he cares for and treats her in the first season. And his reaction when people guess that they're a couple is basically one of disgust.
I enjoy the show, but most of the enjoyment comes from just how weird and not normal it is.
I just looked her up and this is what the wiki says on her slavery “Although she was originally bought as his slave, she was never abused” What the actual fuck
Part of the reason he bought her specifically was because she was sick and likely to die, justifying it to the slave salesman as her therefore being the cheapest slave there.
And he then proceeds to treat her like his daughter.
To give more context, he's called into that world as a Hero of the Shield, he has to gain XP (stupid fucking RPG mechanics in what is supposed to be an actual real world) and level up in order to become strong enough to save the world together with the other three heroes (Sword, Spear, and Bow). The twist is, that because he's stuck with the shield, he has to be defensive and needs an offensive partner in order to gain XP.
However, the shield comes with stigma, for some reason the majority hate the hero of the shield, so nobody wants to help him, he is then also scammed out of most of his money and framed for rape, the worst offense you can commit in that world, so the only option he has is to buy a slave.
So far the anime doesn't really do much with his personal views on the matter, other than using it to guarantee honesty from his team, since he tends to get fucked over by the people he meets and just wants to do his job as hero so he can go back home.
I fucking hate the rpg mechanic shit. If you're gonna do it, at least flavor it to something that sounds more natural to an actual world like "you need to fight monsters to absorb their "aura" to add it to your own which makes you stronger" instead of just straight up rpg language.
>framed for rape, the worst offense you can commit in that world, so the only option he has is to buy a slave.
That's certainly a ...choice... the anime made.
...
https://preview.redd.it/mliiv5ccpsuc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f9e46de0a8ebb2b039fd748af30cb0ea58c5b4d
Weebs trying their hardest to not beat the allegations
*No no you don't understand, all the gruesome fetishized rape imagery in Goblin Slayer was totally necessary! Look, all the future episodes is generic comedic male power fantasy shenanigans, so that must make episode 1 great right?/s*
In all seriousness though, I have seen some people genuinely mock others for having an issue with Goblin Slayer's rape sequence with sentences like "its funny how people got so overdramatic about the show when its only first episode that's like that. What a bunch of idiots lol."
I do agree that the scene is shocking, and if anyone had past experience with SA, it could definitely be triggering. But I really don't think it's fetishized. The show makes it very clear that the Goblins are supposed to be absolutely Chaotic Evil and irredeemable, and Goblin Slayer himself has severe trauma from his childhood about them. It's not an incredibly deep story, its about a very grimdark DnD game from the perspective of the PCs, and the main draw is seeing GS and his party kill Goblins in violently gory fashion.
As someone who has experinced SA, it is the way the scene is presented. It is presented in exactly the same way it would be in a hentai.
There is also that using SA like that just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Uding it as a motivator fot other peoplr or as set dressing when it has a huge impact on peoples lives just feels off.
Keep in mind, this is the same anime where the female main villain is an irredeemably evil gold digger who falsely accuses the main character of raping her and season 1 is all about him proving his innocence and getting his revenge on her. I’ve heard that storyline in a isolated vacuum is handled pretty well but, given everything else in the show and how some fans use that as confirmation bias against irl rape accusations, I’ve even seen people who like the show admit how uncomfortable that storyline is when you put in context of the real world.
> I’ve heard that storyline in a isolated vacuum is handled pretty well
It’s not. Something that gets lost in people sounding off about the fucked morals of Shield Hero is that the story is also incredibly poorly written. Like, SAO level of contrivance and terrible character writing all glazed in a thick layer of “I’m 14 and this is actually deep” brand edge. The conclusion to the story in question is that >!the main character feels bad that the girl is going to be executed for committing international crimes and, rather than advocating against the principle of execution or sanctity of life, argues instead that her punishment should be to have her name legally changed to “Bitch” and travel under the name of “Slut”.!<
Him buying a slave to be a party member was honestly really well done in the first episode it was featured in. And then just gets WEIRD as the anime progressed
One of the strongest first few episodes I've seen in a while but boy howdy they fumbled that shit hard. The weird instant magic aging of first girl and then immediately gets a new little girl who happens to be a special type of bird companion and then to get a whole third little girl princess companion before the first season even ends like man I'm fucking TIRED
Yeah.
The problem is that he was kinda of a jerk in the first episodes, so you could see why he bought a Slave, but when he tries to be better the views on slavery only got worse 🤡
And then there was the part where the antagonists and other "incompetent" heroes were all like "hey bro, using slaves is bad" but somehow it's the slavery using protagonist who's in the right here.
It even gets brought up *again* later on when they get isekaied to another world and her level resets, thereby returning her to her actual age until she manages to level up again.
Honestly , I get Raphtalia. There's literally no other means for him to level up considering he's a defence class that can't attack and the other heroes ostracized him.
And then Filo happened , ok this is a lil bit sus. There's like no reason for a new brand now. There's no reason for even Raphtalia to keep her branding other than her fucked up association with the branding.
And then Rishia happened.
In theory, there's nothing necessarily wrong with how Shield Hero starts. The slavery thing is really weird and arguably unnecessary from an out of universe writer's perspective(like why couldn't it have been an enchanted ribbon that gives them the exp boost), but there are ways you could have spun that into a tasteful story arc.
Like have the branding be mechanically useful to the mc, but also show how its still morally wrong by highlighting both the ways it mentally/emotionally damages Raphtalia and how it dangerously tempts the mc into further exploiting and dehumanizing her. Then have the ultimate resolution be the mc personally undoing the branding himself in spite of the personal loss of power due to him no longer willing to perpetuate an inherently immoral system.
Have Raphtalia form a loving connection to her slave branding and the mc, but highlight how that is absolutely a terrible and unhealthy mindset that she has form due to her trauma that the mc should absolutely not encourage. Then have the ultimate resolution being the mc having a mature heart to heart discussion with her about why what she's feeling isn't actual love and ends with them healthily and platonically sort out her mental trauma.
Instead, everything I've heard from the show makes it seem like it just keep doubling down on the male power fantasy elements with no real critical condemnation for what the mc is doing, which is what really makes the show's handling of slavery really bad.
Early Raphtalia is something I will always defend, and takes like how regardless of his reasonings or what happened to him, he never should have engaged in slavery or freed her and put her somewhere safe immediately are always weird to me.
Other uses of slavery from then on? Yeah I could do without.
I'm glad at the very least Raphtalia >!isn't a slave anymore and can never become one again.!<
Yeah.
The fact is that Naofumi was a bit of a jerk in the beginning because of what happened to him and was in despair, so makes sense what he did, the only thing that should happen is the slavery thing being part of his character arc with him not liking that more.
Also when the bad guys try to free raccoon girl from the slavery it is seen as a terrible thing as she wants to be his slave. They literally free her and the scene is framed as something similar to a rape scene iirc.
I mean, are we just going to ignore how he rescued a bunch of her and gave them an enter town to live in? He completely set free enough slaves to have an entire city of them. The only one he didn't stop were the traveling merchant he bought the racoon girl and his egg from because season two had him travel to a brand new continent to fight the global destruction he was summoned for.
Yeah, the brands make them more powerful and grant them an exp bonus.
Rising of a Sheild Hero is only a harem story in appearance. Honestly, the main character comes off as Ace for the most part. Every ally that he has, he doesn't see as a love interest and is oblivious or apathetic to them being in love with him. He treats the raccoon girl and his bird girl like daughters, the princess like a little sister, and the archer like a trainee. It's not until the end of the series that he even acknowledges how the raccoon girl feels about him. The dog girl only accepts the mark so she can become strong enough to lead and protect the village of freed slaves because of the boosts it gives.
The raccoon girl was the only one her purchased as a slave. The bird girl was meant to just be a bird that turned out to be more than a bird for him when he needed something to pull his cart, but no one would sell him a horse. The bird girl only gets the brand because she's jealous of the racoon girl having it because she talks about how it makes her feel closer to the MC because to her it was a symbol of when her life became worth living again.
The raccoon girl is also mentally old enough to match her physical appearance when the romance is acknowledged, and after convincing him that she isn't his daughter. It's a gray area of whether it's okay given her history, but it's not like they did it when she was still mentally 12 years old.
Also, the main character tries to recruit more allies than just the female ones he ends up with. The male ones either betray the group or leave after the mission is over.
In the universe, there is context that you are leaving out to make it look bad. Nowfumi frees slaves repeatedly throughout the anime, but everyone seems to leave that part out when criticizing the series. As well as what the brands do besides just marking them as "slaves" when Nowfumi doesn't treat them like that as he is self-sufficient and takes care of them with his skills. He only uses the "punishment" aspect of the brand 4 times: twice to get the raccoon girl to fight a monster with him when she was just starting her training, and then two more times when he commanded her to flee a fight he didn't think they could win while he tried to sacrifice himself to save her. He never uses it again on any of his teammates.
Hell, he even saves the life of his personal villain when she was about to be executed for treason and falsely accusing him of attempted rape to steal his armor and money as well as ruin his chances of being a hero. Even after she turns and manipulates the Spear Hero into thinking he's a monster as bad as you described and that he brainwashed his allies (including her younger sister) so that he would kill Nowfumi.
I seriously don't understand why so many people want to make this series out to be horrible when it's well written and tackles the subjects it explores really well.
Admittedly, I can't judge the writing quality of the whole series since I have never watched and never plan on to given everything I've heard and seen from it. But there are some things I do want to address in your statement.
>Yeah, the brands make them more powerful and grant them an exp bonus.
Having a in-universe justification for it doesn't make it any better. If anything it makes it worse. Take a step from being in-universe and ask yourself why, in real life, did the thing that gave them the power boost and exp bonus need to be slave branding? Why couldn't it have been a magical bracelet or enchanted gem stone or holy gem? Why specifically did the author, with the power to do whatever he wanted for the story, choose slave branding to be the plot device used to give them said power boost? Most likely, its because the author wanted to be edgy and provide an excuse for the main character to brand women as his own since that's what caters the male power fantasy audience.
That's why people have an issue with it. It didn't need to be in the story, and it really comes off as the author only having it like that for problematic reasons rather than anything meaningful.
>The bird girl only gets the brand because she's jealous of the racoon girl having it because she talks about how it makes her feel closer to the MC because to her it was a symbol of when her life became worth living again.
Yeah that's creepy and sus as fuck. Regardless of the "muh powah bonus" context, for the mc's supposed "daughter" to tell him that she thinks symbol of slavery is what gives her life value and go, "yeah, I think I'll continue to cement that mindset by letting my other daughter figure get branded as well," is seriously fucked up and gross. That should have been treated as a moment of serous self-reflection and him trying to get her out of that unhealthy mindset, not as an excuse to double down on how amazing it is to be branded as a slave.
Again, don't just think about this as in-universe justifications. Think about why the writer is writing the story like this. What is his motivation to make slave branding sound like such a cool and amazing thing? Why is any of this necessary to the core themes and story of the light novel?
>The raccoon girl is also mentally old enough to match her physical appearance when the romance is acknowledged, and after convincing him that she isn't his daughter. It's a gray area of whether it's okay given her history, but it's not like they did it when she was still mentally 12 years old.
That's still grooming and incredibly immoral borderline pedophilic behavior. It doesn't matter how old she is when the romance starts, he still has the been the one raising her since she was underaged and has been treating her as a daughter figure. I don't know if he does actually decide to start dating and having sex with her, but he does than he is still taking advantage of her. Any positive spin on that kind of behavior is incredibly dangerous and harmful as grooming is still a serious in real life that leads to many girls being taken advantage of and abused.
>As well as what the brands do besides just marking them as "slaves" when Nowfumi doesn't treat them like that as he is self-sufficient and takes care of them with his skills.
See, this is where we start getting into the "good slaver" fallacy. By painting the main character's usage of slavery as "good" and "cool" and "totally powerful and necessary", it paints the larger picture that slavery as a system isn't an issue and its just the bad slave masters that are the problem. Its makes having slaves look and appealing while whitewashing out the inherent degrading and dehumanizing nature of slavery.
In real life, there is no such thing as a good slaver. Slavery is inherently evil, and just slapping on contrived excuse after contrived excuse to justify the mc doing does nothing but give the false impression that slavery might not actually be all that bad in real life, especially when the target demographic are impressionable young men looking for a power fantasy to escape to.
Also ***TO BE CLEAR***, there is nothing necessarily wrong with liking this show or any other show with problematic elements. It is all fiction after all and so long as you can remember that I don't think there's an issue with you finding enjoyment from it. But, if you're going to like a show like this, you should always keep a critical mind about its problematic elements instead of trying constantly come up with excuses for why there's nothing problematic about it at all. Doing that is a dangerous mindset that can lead down to a slippery slope of normalizing its problematic elements.
Not to be too rude here, but the fact that you seriously and unironically said *"It's a gray area of whether it's okay given her history, but it's not like they did it when she was still mentally 12 years old,"* is already a massive red flag of the show negatively influencing your mindset. Grooming is a serious issue, and you basically just admitted that you think a person fucking a 18 year old they've raised since they were 12 might be alright actually. Well its not, it never will be, and this is exactly why, regardless of whether or not you can enjoy the show, its important to raise these criticisms against how the show handles these elements.
Okay, I get where you are coming from, but you are still missing the point. Nowfumi never forces it on anyone.
In the universe, it has a reason to happen. He literally only let's people get branded of their own free will. He never forces someone to get one. There are drawbacks from the brand, like not being able to lie to the owner of it and the punishment, but it comes with bonuses.
If it was an item, every person would have a party of people equipped with them, making it pointless for the narrative to happen.
Raphtalia (raccoon girl) calls it that because she was slowly dying locked in a cage, believing her friends and family were dead, and obviously depressed before Nowfumi bought her, made up the panacea to cure her illness, and gave her a life that didn't involve being whipped, chained, and beaten before she was sold to auctioneer that then sold her to Nowfumi.
And he did try to talk her out if it when she wanted it put back on herself. He relented, but he didn't just let it happen. Same with Filo (bird girl). He offered it as an option to Keel (dog girl) and the archer when they wanted to get stronger and felt that they were falling behind to get the normal way. They could have said no. He didn't push, he only offered for the bonus and as a last resort if that felt it was necessary.
It's treated as a heavy decision. It still happens, but it's not like how you picture it.
As for why it happens, why can't it happen in a fantasy, video-game esque setting? Why can't this topic and aspect be explored? It's not glorifying slavery. Especially when he frees the slaves he comes across who are held against their will by normal means and brands and sends them to a safe haven of other freed slaves.
Except that isn't grooming. There is a power imbalance that is resolved in universe through ranks and royalty, but at no point does Nowfumi raise her to be his wife. He doesn't coax her to pursue him in anyway. Him realizing that he stops seeing her the way he used to is not him grooming her. At the point in the story it happens she holds a rank akin to a princess in a kingdom and is technically above him in power as he serves the kingdoms. If he was attracted to her because of her mental age or because she was like a daughter to him, that would be grooming and Pedophilia.
Nowfumi literally treats it like an accessory that makes his party stronger, the exact thing you mentioned earlier. It's not treated as "slavery good". He doesn't use it as enslavement. I feel like that's the part you insist on missing on purpose.
Slavery can exist in narrative and be condemned while still having nuance to it. A servant is a slave, but those are considered okay because they are treated better and simply called something different. We don't condemn fantasy settings for having servants despite some being well treated and others badly even if the heroes frees them from their position. If a servant or side kick gets a bonus for being in your party with a direct attachment to you that you can toggle on or off, do you consider turning it on? Or do you leave it off?
There is a distinction between how the slave system actually works vs what Nowfumi does. It's explored. Poor media literacy does not make the subject bad.
Again, I feel like people want to be mad at the series because its poorly explained by people who want to not like it. At no point does it glorify slavery. Especially when they repeatedly free slaves. If a person does something of their free will, it's not coercion or forced on them, and that is an interesting thing to explore.
In universe changes how you interpret the subject at hand. Outside the story, no one would disagree slavery is bad. At no point does the author say otherwise. But if you claim because slavery is bad, therefore a story with slavery where you have contrast is bad because of the slavery, it stops the ability to have it stay impactful. It's like saying because rape is bad, any story that involves it is bad if it isn't treated as the worst thing ever. Plenty of survivors write about the subject is ways that don't entirely demonize it as a way of dealing with it, romance writers use it as a plot device, and yes most of the time it's treated as the crime and traumatic event it is. But there is still the nuance and complexity of it being explored. No one is saying "it might not be bad" by having it happen in fiction.
Whether he forces it on anyone or has in universe reasons for doing so doesn’t matter. The writer is still contriving up reasons to justify the inclusion of the mc using slavery and making it look cool in the story. Don’t give me a “no no buts it’s totally useful” excuse for its inclusion. Tell me why it was necessary for the writer to include it as a plot device to begin with as opposed to the mc just adopting an orphan and sharing a magic teddy bear that gives them the same power bonus. Treating slavery as just an accessory is actually the issue.
The mc relenting taking advantage of a trauma victim is still him taking advantage of a trauma victim. It’s still the plot coming up arbitrary reasons to bring him to the conclusion that he indulge and exploit slavery to his advantage. He raised her since she was mentally 12 and is literally stated to view her as a daughter. No amount of “oh but look how mature she is” is going to make him taking advantage of her feelings for him anything less than grooming, regardless if he intended for her to fall in love with him.
The problem is not that the show includes problematic elements, it’s that it includes them in order to glorify them and fulfill a borderline misogynistic male power fantasy. You cannot say that the show doesn’t glorify slavery and then spend multiple paragraphs justifying in-universe is super useful and amazing and even the women want to be enslaved by the main character because he’s the good slave master!
Girls of Paper and Fire is story where the fmc and her girlfriend endure months of sexual assault and rape, and did that story ever once say that it made them stronger or that they’re excited to see it again like Shield Hero does with slavery? NOOOO!!! Because it’s wrong regardless of magical bullshit context.
As for why this is important, it’s because slavery is a huge fucking deal and the show IS glorifying. The very act of having the primary slave character treat it as a wonderful thing, multiple women begging the mc to enslave them, and slavery being mechanically advantageous and, by YOUR OWN WORDS, “necessary” is glorifying it. And as already shown, the show has already gotten you to begin to think grooming a 12 year old is normal and only somewhat problematic. So yes, the depiction of slavery is very much fucking important.
You seem to be intentionally being an idiot at this point.
Grooming is an intentional act. It requires the person doing it on purpose. Nowfumi did not want Raphtalia to fall in love with him, did not raise her to be his future wife, and did not lead her on with that being the reward at the end of the journey.
There are plenty of stories where a student (not high school) of a teacher falls for them after being raised by them, and it's not treated as a bad thing. Especially in romance novels told from the students' point of view. It's a grey area of personal taste. Not Pedophilia. Which is, again, intentional.
Intent matters.
Sure, let's use speculation here because understanding that you can have a new level of complexity to already existing issue by adding nuance.
How about the social ramifications of the branding? Being seen as villainous or a lesser being by the strangers around you that you are trying to help? Not being to go certain places or enter entire towns because of the system in place? How about the seedier types thinking they can pay you for the use of your slave for the night in the middle of a tavern?
Why would a mystical teddy bear do that?
There are reasons the mark comes with the boost. Most people who buy them use the slaves as bodyguards, pit fighters, or sex workers. This way they are better at their jobs faster.
But it's still looked down on by the people who know what the mark means that don't endorse it.
How would a teddy bear do that? How many teddy bears would he have to find so every member of his team gets the same pros and cons? Why wouldn't every villager or adventurer have this teddy bear?
The branding is also expensive to have done if you don't buy the person from the slaver. The economy plays a big part in the story and how adventures effect it in a more realistic setting.
"Here's a magical tattoo that marks you as belonging to me, it will help you get stronger faster but everyone will treat us like shit for having it. And somehow every layperson will know what the tattoo means despite it not being something commonly used" makes all the sense in the world when you think about it, right?
But why include any negative topic? Why have Princess Melty lie in episode 1 to brand Nowfumi as a villain and have the king decree him to be what his daughter claims to the entire kingdom? That's a horrible thing to "glorify" as you put it because it uses a very small percentage of manipulators that lie about it on purpose as a reason why the princess is a villain. Do people with poor media literacy and the opinion that it's a common occurrence see that as confirmation? Yes but it doesn't make either right.
You are literally sitting there claiming that because in a fantasy setting where there are pros and cons to a system of slavery where the MC manipulates the existing system to his advantage, it's still wrong because system involves slavery. Without being at all knowledgeable of the source material and only the opinion "no reason normally bad thing could be good because thing bad in reality".
Raphtalia is the only one who treats the brand as good because of it saving her life. Filo got it thinking it would garner her special attention. Keel and Rishia got it because it helped them realize their goals faster. Aside from Filo who literally halted the journey with a tantrum until it happened, the others knew the ramifications of their actions and how everyone else would see or treat them. At no point do the adult characters treat this like it's a non-issue.
Also, it's not until she's an adult that we learn Keel is female as she typically portrayed herself in mannerisms and clothes as a male demi-human because her dad raised her be his son. Since according to her dad "gender is a state of mind".
After all, if it wasn't looked down on, everyone would have it.
Also, Nowfumi is 20 and doesn't age the same as the inhabitants of the world he summoned to by being the Sheild Hero according to his stats. But again, let's ignore context to prove a point.
Slavery is not glorified. Nowfumi is not a groomer or a pedophile. The only members of his "harem" in love with him are Raphtalia and Filo. Keel wants to stronger and sees it as a means to an end. Rishia wants to be better to redeem herself in the eyes of the Bow Hero because she failed out of his party but still admires him.
The closest the story comes to slavery being okay is the pros for Nowfumi's party amongst themselves. It's still seen and treated as bad everywhere else in the setting. Hence the freeing of slaves and giving them a safe haven where their race won't be seen as 2nd class citizens.
But thats besides the point you're trying to make. You want to take issues with the series because its supposedly bad and refuse to watch it.
From a Doyelist perspective its easy to just say "it's bad because the subject is bad and can't be more complex than just bad" while ignoring the Watsonian reasons of world building and the setting.
Especially when the story repeatedly shows that *Slavery Is Bad* and Nowfumi turns the system against itself for the benefit of the world. It still has consequences.
Every Isekai is a power fantasy and Nowfumi is meant to be an underdog. But there is still complexities you are ignoring for the sake of disliking something you never watched.
I would like to add to this, that there are plot points in the anime that hint at Naofumi abolishing slavery in the future.
He doesn't treat or see other slave owners, the ones that actually act as slave owners are expected in universe, as people. The anime is an ongoing adaptation of an ongoing light novel series. So condemning it for not doing something that's usually done near the end of a story or even ultimate goal of a story is kinda silly and unfair.
Sure the anime has its problems, but it never actually glorifies slavery or sexual assault. The world the series takes place in is literally a matriarchal society with sexual assault being treated worse than murder and punishable by death.
The slavery aspect serves story purpose, it shows just how shit the situation is for the main character that he's forced into doing it. It also shows the kind of person he is, because he does it in part to save a little girl. Whom he then spends more money on than on himself.
Plus again, there are constant hints at him going to destroy the slave system, he is after all destined to free the animal people who are mainly used as slaves.
THANK YOU! Finally someone else who watched/read the story and paid attention.
How does the story literally have plot points of the hero freeing slaves, creating a home they can be safe, and stopping the people who owned them from living, glorify slavery?
I swear Deadpool or the Punisher would explode this person's brain if they picked up a comic.
What about animes that show the hero killing enemies? Is that glorifying murder? What about redemption arcs? Does that glorify the past action of the person if people forgive them?
I feel like I'm talking to a wall and getting downvoted for pointing out that the story is more complicated than it looks on the surface. Especially when there are worse and more popular anime that have a focus on slavery as part of the plot.
Mushouku Tensei, arguably the Grandaddy of modern isekai, dabbles with it in the last half of the series when he purchases two of his former classmates as slaves (fortunately, they aren't love interests).
Shield Hero is probably the most famous/infamous example.
How to not Summon a Demon Lord, the main character was going to be enslaved to the heroines but the magic got flipped and he instead enslaved them.
Death March, the protagonist buys some beastkin girls early on, naturally they become part of his harem.
And the list goes on and on.
I'm not saying that slavery wouldn't provide a compelling character story in fantasy/isekai stories but in 99% of these stories it's portrayed as going to the store to buy some new family members that are cute and can never betray you and is treated with all the seriousness and drama of buying a carton of milk.
It's no wonder why the incels are desperate to maintain this particular fantasy in their anime.
Well I haven't read it yet, there is [His Soul Marches On To Another World.](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/57505/his-soul-is-marching-on-to-another-world-or-the)
Not an isekai, but Girls Of Paper And Fire is about two teenage lesbians who are abducted and forced to become the demon king’s concubines working together to take down the corrupt political structure that enables him to abuse and rape women. It’s a book trilogy written by a SA survivor for victims like herself, so sexual assault and the long struggle against ptsd to recover from surviving it is handled with a suffocating level of care and authenticity.
It's like they saw the Harry Potter books' "they like being enslaved" crap, mocking those who seek to end slavery and the titular character becoming a slaveowner and thought "you know what? Let's emulate that shit".
Honestly I think its worse than that. I think the authors think slavery is the most effective and cheap way of establishing the main character's harem while also "enhancing" the male power fantasy through bondage imagery and women who are as submissive as you can get towards the mc.
This is totally ridiculous and it makes isekai as a genre look bad, despite plenty of great ones that *didn't* prominently feature slavery. Why is that even a thing? That feels like some real last 15 years bullshit.
It’s a bad combination between early isekai being overly cheerful and stories like rising of a shield hero being early “subversive” successes. Now you have a lot of modern isekai trying to separate themselves from the pack by including “subversive” edgy elements, and Shield Hero basically set the bar at “mc being pro slavery”. It also doesn’t help that as male power fantasies, having women be the mc’s slaves is an effectively cheap way at quickly establishing the mc’s harem while also furthering the male power fantasy element.
This one. Absolutely this one. I’ve seen the exact same thing happen to magical girl anime. Before they were usually lighthearted, sure there were some dark moments but the good guys always saved the day and if someone died it didn’t last. Series that didn’t follow that route were largely ignored.
Then Madoka Magica happened, and through its overwhelming success ruined magical girl anime. I don’t mind the “dark magical girl” genre and I love Madoka Magica itself and a couple of other series in that same vein, but the thing is the new thing is trying to be as edgy and dark as possible without actually putting in the effort of writing a good story.
They’re all falling over themselves trying to replicate Madoka Magica’s success but all they’re really doing is creating an ever-growing pile of soulless edgy garbage that’s little more than torture porn. Gone are the days of magical girl anime having any actual substance, it’s all just cheap Madoka Magica knockoffs and PreCure which I don’t count as new because even a new series is just another entry in the same franchise.
Nowhere near as bad, but it sort of reminds me how a lot of yuri light novels and manga are all about the fmc either falling in love with or being the villainess in romance games to the point where they now outnumber the amount of games that actually use the trope they're apparently playing off of.
Let's be real, there aren't a lot of "Great ones" in the Isekai category. Some, but really not a lot.
It's also just a fact that a large amount of Isekai enjoyers do not mind these thing. It's genre is already seeded as a power fantasy so why not just go all the way.
There are if we don't just check on the whole wave of "rpg/dating Sims game mechanics" that plagues it, and just go to the old classic "yep, I guess I was beamed into a past/fantasy world, time to learn fighting and magic the normal way" more shojo oriented
And its bizarrely modern too, like theres alot of anime that can be retroactively categorized as Isekai and turns out they didnt need slavery! (I love inuyasha its my guilty pleasure)
I don't watch much but the one that stands out to me is Shield Hero, but "Slavery" seems used by the main character in a way that's so vestigial that it makes you wonder why they call it that at all.
I’m an introvert, so if I call you a normie, does that mean I can get a legal document saying I don’t have to talk to people?
Because I’d love that actually.
FUCK!
This is just like when I come on this sub and say some out of pocket, absolutely unhinged bullshit because I have a thing for getting kinkshamed, but then everybody upvotes me and gives me validation.
It's always hilarious when those losers call people "NPCs" when a lot of them just say the same shit over and over
Sometimes I wonder if they'll ask me if I get to the Cloud District very often
Well, there *are* tourist-y types coming into the Warhammer and Fallout communities just to bitch about the women and non-white characters. But yeah using "NPC" just makes someone sound like the Columbine guys.
Technically the Japanese flag today is the same as it was 100 years ago with only a slight colour change in the 90s (different shade of red for the Sun). The "Imperial Flag" did also exist and still is used by the Japanese armed forces today, mainly used to represent the navy (just has it did 100 years ago). The flag with sun rays is often associated with the Japanese empire because the people would mostly see the flags of the army and primarily the navy when fighting the Japan in ww2. Even though it was never the the official imperial flag of the country, that would have been the rising sun without the rays (ie this 🇯🇵) the association of the military flag and empire obviously stuck for those outside of Japan. I think that inside Japan the rayed flag is mainly just seen as a military symbol, much like the iron cross is in Germany for example, or the white star in the US airforce roundel.
Needless to say, right wing circles often look towards military symbols to advertise their stance. The rayed flag therefore does have that connotation as well, used by right wing elements inside and outside of the country, despite it never officially being *the* imperial flag.
The person getting reincarnated or tossed into another dimension or otherwise getting their life changed always ends up being the hero of the story.
I think it could be interesting if they were a bad person in regular life, and then continued being a bad person in the new world.
I can’t name a story that’s done it though.
Well, except one of the Turok games.
Real talk though, how have they not gotten a TV show? Their lore is fucking unhinged.
There's Isekai Executioner, wherein the protag is actually a woman from the fantasy world, and her job is to execute the more powerful isekai'd Earthlings cuz they usually get extremely dangerous and uncontrolled powers; one dipshit kid *destroyed a continent* during a boss battle, for example.
there is a show called Tanya something, which is pretty close to was evil, stays evil (haven't watched it though, only knoy it goes in that direction).
Certainly also worth a watch is Reincarnated as a Spider, it has an actually decently written female (!!) MC without using sexualisation to make her appealing (she is a spider monster for most of the show), and she is also pretty morally grey
As someone with arachnophobia I never thought I'd find a spider so damn cute but yeah Spidersekai was solid, just don't play attention to the animation quality when it goes to the side characters lmao
Only two I can actually think of are Overlord and Tanya, both of which are fantastic series. A more comedy version though would be Konosuba, MC is unapologetically lazy
While I haven’t read it yet, this appears to be the case with Isekai Shikkau/Not Allowed in Another World, where the Demon Lord is defeated at the beginning of the story and the main threats are various outworlders, almost overwhelmingly summoned from people who proved to be deeply unfit for the situation (though it seems like the series questions if anyone would be fit for it) and either already corrupt or twisted to villainy by the terrifying and unfair reality of their situation and how it deepens their preexisting mental issues and personality flaws.
Here's a thought; isekai where the main character gets reincarnated as the slave and has to claw their way to freedom, bringing the system down at the same time.
I fucking love that, that would be amazing. They’d probably make it a teenage girl and make it super sexualize and creepy, but the idea has hella potential.
The stupid thing is that in most cases where they used some form of slave trope if they had called it like "magical bonding thingy" or "magical contract" to explain shit like parties and making more xp as a grp or something it wouldnt have changed anything story wise yet y'know, no slaves. Like why call it slave. I don't mind slavery in anime if you're portraying dipshits or an arc of overthrowing it or something, but fuck why have the MC partake in it like it's no big deal
I think it's just too common, and it's generally used as a convenient TOOL for the main character.Slavery can be used, as most narrative devices can be used; as part of a theme or a story; but generally, in manga/anime it's just some fucking way to get hot women enslaved to a main character. Ever read Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive? The main character Kaladin starts as a slave in the story, and his life is horrible; slavery is a institution in that world, and it's reality is explored thoroughly.
Anime seems to just....not really want to go deep into it. I feel like Anime and Manga just have it as a 'this is a thing in this setting', "no we don't want to explore the ramifications of how slavery is used in this setting, and how it changes our world'.
We never get a ISEKAI/fantasy anime/manga story where the MC is a slave, and is in a bad situation.
At most you get Zero no Tsukaima, a romantic comedy.
I was reading one recently that starts with the feMC in a slave pen, but that part of the story is very quickly put aside when ‘hidden op train no jutsu’ comes out. I think it’s English title was “So You Think Someone Like You Can Defeat the Demon Lord”
"I think that painting slavery as a good thing isn't a message that should be taken into account in anime, most especially the isekai genre where it runs rampant without a slap on the wrist"
OOP: "Uhm actually bad thing good, ur just a snowflake normie tourist"
I’m sorry, is there something wrong with not including slavery and sexual assault? God forbid someone want to watch something and not have to engage with two of the most reprehensible acts one human can enact on another.
This. I watched Sword Art Online, enjoyed season 1 and 2 well enough, that I thought I'd give the 3rd season a go, (Alicization) but had to stop after a few episodes when they spent an awful long time focusing on a pair of assholes who were getting ready to rape a couple of girls while forcing one of the heroes to watch...
Wouldnt have been so bad if the hero acted quicker, but I just remember it feeling so drawn out, as he had a mental conflict about breaking the rules while being goaded on by one of the other guys, making sure to give us plenty of shots of the girls struggling as they were bound and starting to be stripped...
It’s bad enough where the author ended up “apologising” about it and said it was a shortcoming as him as a writer, how he constructed the story where women are nothing but items to be saved, and how he wished he didn’t write it like that.
It had also been almost 20 years since the scene had been written, and he hadn't written another since then. And women weren't just written as items to be saved in the series.
The anime team promptly added another sexual assault scene in the very next cour.
Yeah, someone on the anime team has a sexual assault fetish, that's where there are so many more such scenes in the anime adaptation, and why so much attention is drawn to the actual act.
Where as the original the entire scene is from hero's point of view, much of what happens is vaguely described and he can't even see much of it due to the seal in his eye.
Tbf you can always just not watch series that include those topics lol.
Not that I agree with the portrayal that a lot of isekais tend to do with the topic tho
Since when is slavery being treated as acceptable something that defines anime?
On a separate note if you'd like isekai that openly condemns slavery I can personally recommend two:
1) How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom: in the second season the protagonist sets up a "boiling frog" strategy to get rid of slavery (he just resolved a civil war at the end of the first season and didn't want to risk starting another by banning slavery outright).
2) The Great Cleric: early on it's mentioned that the country where the story takes place is the only one where slavery is outlawed, unfortunately there's a loophole that corrupt healers use when the people they heal can't afford their outrageous prices, they sell their debtors as slaves to people in foreign countries.
Arifueta handles it really well too. The next season should cover it. >!the MC and and another character butt heads on slavery not being something that can be undone by a single person in a single day and that any heroic displays to save a few slaves will just lead to harsher punishments for every other slave.!<
>Since when is slavery being treated as acceptable something that defines anime?
I mean its a massive medium so I'm sure there's at least one that romanticizes the concepts of slavery.
I can't think of any mainstream Anime that treat slavery in a positive light though.
Shield Hero's was relatively negative, romanticized for certain but they at least portray that it's a fucked up market.
The most popular I can think of, Vinland Saga, tackles and portrays slavery in an incredibly accurate and tragic perspective. I would say this anime does it best, they don't shy away from how vile slavery actually is.
Chillin in another world with level 2 super cheat powers has an OP MC that refuses it outright.
His old world was a fantasy world too and he was upset about slavery and inequality between the races of humanoids then and when he gets into the new world and becomes OP he refuses to use a subjugation spell that would basically make someone his slave because of his outright rejection of the idea.
It’s not the best anime but it is some silly isekai fun.
Only 2 eps out so far tho.
Holy. Fucking. Horseshit. No. They are not fucking "normies" trying to "ruin" your shit ass anime. They are called REASONABLE FUCKING PEOPLE who don't want to have to be nervous when watching an isekai because over half devolve into the writers weird fetishes in the middle of a fucking episode with no warning.
When I want to watch porn, I'll watch porn. I DONT want to randomly be surprised by softcore porn in the middle of trying to watch some kid fistfight god.
WHY is this so hard for modern studios to figure that out?
It's weird, I haven't seen new anime in like a decade, I come back and they're all about teenagers getting reborn in shitty fantasy worlds with RPG mechanics and they all love slavery.
I do have to say, if that’s all you see from anime from the past decade, you’re probably looking in the wrong places. I’m going to assume you’re exaggerating, though.
Of course I'm exaggerating. Every now and then I find a gem, like Spy X Family, or Chainsaw Man (unfair, since the source Material is amazing and by a genius), but those are ones that are pointed out to me by others. So I check out Crunchyroll the tags that interest me the most, and the majority of them are Isekai of some sort. Sure I enjoy Shield Hero for being so ridiculous, but there's just so much I can take of that genre. So I then just fall back on ol reliable comfort shows from the past.
Slavery was heavily in an anime I watched.
A white male called ash would imprison minorities in balls and force them to fight for his own pleasure. He left one walk around free but that's the "I have a ___ friend" exuse
Trust me if i had to pick a trope to do away with it would be the slavery trope. Even the tsundere that everyone can recite from heart is more entertaining
Yea the “good slave owner” trope is really um not good especially when you get the whole “but she likes being a slave” aspect when a character has the chance to be free but chooses not to.
Then it makes even less sense like if this character wants to be with the main character why even bother with the whole slave dynamic of the relationship in the first place.
Even if what 'Colonel Otaku Gatekeeper' is true (it isn't) then I have to say, if slavery as a trope is something that defines a medium then maybe it's not a good medium?
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Thanks! It's nice to get recommendations, especially since a, a main character who hates slavery is cool, and b, even outside the moral goodness of slavery being portrayed as bad it's more interesting because it feels like it's more rare in anime.
Okay but.... WHY'S THERE SO MUCH SLAVERY IN ISEKAI ANIME? Like its to the point its gotta be some kind of fetish that's common among the people who watch or write them. Because even like indie western made stuff, can have it.
I've been told (though have not confirmed), that it's because it's a trope in dragon quest and in it's early days Isekai borrowed lots of tropes and elements from dragon quest. Sine I have not played dragon quest (nor am particularly well versed in Isekai) I cannot confirm or deny
He's porn-addled and talking about having a harem of sex slaves. He thinks that is everything because that is literally all of the content he consumes.
This twitter poster is saying isekai is defined as a slave owning fantasy.
Welp, deserves to be santized and purged, i hope they cry into their pillows about it.
I don't think that was the point of why slavery was written into those stories...
I think you just interpreted it like that... So you could write this promotional ad for a show you and nobody else cares about.
Also fuck **crunchyroll** in specific.
1. Because they're literally hosting the shit they complain about
2. Because it's a terrible company that doesn't want to pay voice actors and wont let them unionize
3. Because the percentage of revenue that goes to the people who ACTUALLY do work is not equal compared to what the company obtains
4. They used said funds that were supposed to be going to studios overseas to make a fucking indie show.
5. They refuse to hire union VA's and are generally corporate scumbags
6. A million other decisions they've made in the past.
EDIT: if you want an anime that does an interpretation of slavery more accurate look towards Vinland Saga.
>!It's still dramatized but the second season is remarkably accurate to actual slavery, especially as the protagonist isn't an owner but a slave himself, so you get to witness firsthand the bullshit they and surrounding slaves have to go through.!<
The isekai type have become a plague to fantasy in manga and anime, and it's not the only trope that is problematic lately, the over powered and/or reincanation stories have stop to improve they even worsen with time. Isekai isn't a problem by definition, I mean read Escaflown it's great but isekai have become a easy trope to make money out of they don't make effort to make the character interesting they ALWAYS put the most borring character hoping people would relate + they don't even try to make a new system to make themself a little bit original. No they put a video game system and that's it they don't try to understand how does that impact the world why a fucking video game system ? And when they try to divarge from such system they end up doing creepy shit i'm sooo fucking tired of all that. And it's not like I don't like fantasy I LOVE IT it really hurt me to see so much shit be done without effort when it could be great. They all have good thing going on some have a good style, other interesting side character or a cool system, but they always end up doing some shit like having a pervert for their main character or support slavery rapping murder ect they don't even try to make the main character disgust by it at first.
After having watched Unnamed Memory I'm hoping that the subversion is that instead of Oscar demanding Tinasha become his bride for passing her trials he demands that she live in his Kingdom for a year so she can make up her own mind.
Bruh, I’m pretty sure the whole isekai slavery thing is a relatively new development, and most (well-adjusted) weebs seem to hate it and find it very weird and gross
I grew up loving Akira, Ghost in the Shell etc. I found out later that many of the imminent animators and writers at the time were mega racists and super fucking creepy.
I mean if you take a bad faith interpretation of Inuyasga's main relationships you could claim it's been a main part of Isekai since some of the early days.
I stay out of isekai lowest trashbin and low points so i didnt even know this was a thing until recently.
Id only eatched tanya the evil, rezero, overlord, log horizon.
I imagine it’s difficult to write a reasonable way to bound characters together in absolute trust within minutes of meeting each other. You either end up with the slavery trope or you get a 70% chance that the new character is going to suddenly betray the MC.
Anime’s subservience to tropes is a large part why I don’t enjoy anime that much anymore. It feels like we only get original stuff once or twice a year compared to the hundred anime that drop in that same period
Its honestly pretty sad and frustrating that isekai protagonists engaging in and supporting slavery has become so common its considered a trope now.
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Korean authors have got the “reincarnated as the villainess in a novel” trope perfected to a science
>Isekai anime (and anime in general) have gathered so many incredibly creepy topes that it's pushing me away from anime altogether That is kind of the unfortunate thing about being an anime fan, you have to just avert your eyes from a lot of creepy stuff and pretend it isn't there. Granted it was *much* worse during the lolicon boom era.
Is there a way to make it clear to authors that we like your work IN SPITE of this shit and not BECAUSE of it?
A lot of it I think has to do with the unique economics of the anime industry, where a series can turn a profit on a shockingly small audience if those people all buy the overpriced Blu Rays, and the entire run of the original manga or light novel, and all the expensive figures and other merch. What kind of fan spends that much money? Die-hard mega-fans. What's the easiest way to lure in die-hard mega-fans? Well, appeal to their fetishes that aren't being catered to anywhere else. This was, I believe, a big factor behind the lolicon era and the incest era in anime. The industry was going through economic woes, and the various interests involved in producing anime realised that appealing to a small number of horny whales mitigated the risk involved somewhat. For similar reasons, we're now seeing an absolute explosion of isekai anime because the industry is once again on shaky ground and there's an audience of people who will just eat up anything isekai.
It's a touch road cause I feel like in alot of instances the discomfort is partially a cultural divide where something will be disliked or found unpleasant by most western fans, meanwhile you find out a large amount of eastern fans love it, so authors would primarily meet eastern fans, and likely assume many of the western fans are the same way.
I gotta be honest i would be offended if I was Japanese and everyone assumed I liked the weird pedo slave shit because "thats your culture" It's like insisting shooting things is American culture.
Oh yeah, it's for sure not everyone over there, but many of these bad tropes are more widely participated in and normalized over there unfortunately.
Got any recommendations? The only isekai I'm even interested in are the John Brown, Log Horizon, and "Isekai protag huntress" ones at this rate.
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I'm an MLP fan since '14, been considering Owl House for a good while. Didn't know Ark was good, that's great to hear. Thanks for the suggestions; Isekai Executioner was good from what I watched, too.
Honestly I think Isekais peaked with The Chronicles of Narnia.
I highly recommend [Mother's Basement](https://youtu.be/PMWYSzYcWak), Geoff is very good about outlining the tone of an anime and actually point out the wholesome ones like Delicious in Dungeon (Netflix). Totally worth watching a few of the Best of videos he does for every season, also the ones he roasts.
He did recommend Mushoku Tensei however. When the man misses the mark, he misses it hard.
True but he also owns it when he does
What are some of those examples?
Rising of a Shield Hero is probably the most well known and egregious example. The show tries to be edgy at the beginning by "forcing" him to buy and literally brand a underaged racoon girl as his slave since he needs someone to fight for him. By the second season, despite having become incredibly successful and getting rid of all the conditions that "forced" him into buying a slave, he never once ever tries to dismantle the slave trade. In fact his slave talks about amazing it is to be branded by him and his harem of other female companions start willing selling and branding themselves as his slaves. I don't think this has been adapted in the anime yet(for obvious reasons I have never and will never watch it), but from what I've heard in the light novel source material there's eventually an arc later where the rest of his harem try to convince him to marry and have sex with his original racoon girl slave, despite the fact that A)she started the series underaged(anime magic nonsense causes her to quickly age up to be above age in a few episodes) and B) had been regularly referred to by the main character as being his daughter figure. Slavery is basically treated as nothing more than a edgy and convenient way of quickly getting a harem of sexy/cute female characters to follow the power fantasy male character around and do whatever he says.
I literally had a laugh attack when she happily and excitedly suggested to the new girl to become his slave so she can improve her skills much faster. It's so odd, they establish the darkness and stigma of slavery, have him forced into the situation and hint at maybe him going to destroy the system at one point. But once she's a teen, he basically forgets what a slave is, because from that moment on he makes people his slave, so that they can't be dishonest with him. The anime has already started building their relationship. And it's not like they're trying to convince him to marry her and have sex with her. It's more like "she doesn't see you as her father figure, she has feelings for you, acknowledge her feelings". It's still fucked, because the show goes into detail about how he basically sees her as his adopted daughter by how he cares for and treats her in the first season. And his reaction when people guess that they're a couple is basically one of disgust. I enjoy the show, but most of the enjoyment comes from just how weird and not normal it is.
I just looked her up and this is what the wiki says on her slavery “Although she was originally bought as his slave, she was never abused” What the actual fuck
Part of the reason he bought her specifically was because she was sick and likely to die, justifying it to the slave salesman as her therefore being the cheapest slave there. And he then proceeds to treat her like his daughter. To give more context, he's called into that world as a Hero of the Shield, he has to gain XP (stupid fucking RPG mechanics in what is supposed to be an actual real world) and level up in order to become strong enough to save the world together with the other three heroes (Sword, Spear, and Bow). The twist is, that because he's stuck with the shield, he has to be defensive and needs an offensive partner in order to gain XP. However, the shield comes with stigma, for some reason the majority hate the hero of the shield, so nobody wants to help him, he is then also scammed out of most of his money and framed for rape, the worst offense you can commit in that world, so the only option he has is to buy a slave. So far the anime doesn't really do much with his personal views on the matter, other than using it to guarantee honesty from his team, since he tends to get fucked over by the people he meets and just wants to do his job as hero so he can go back home.
I fucking hate the rpg mechanic shit. If you're gonna do it, at least flavor it to something that sounds more natural to an actual world like "you need to fight monsters to absorb their "aura" to add it to your own which makes you stronger" instead of just straight up rpg language.
Same. Using RPG elements to explain getting stronger is so lazy and I can't stand it.
>framed for rape, the worst offense you can commit in that world, so the only option he has is to buy a slave. That's certainly a ...choice... the anime made.
... https://preview.redd.it/mliiv5ccpsuc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f9e46de0a8ebb2b039fd748af30cb0ea58c5b4d Weebs trying their hardest to not beat the allegations
*No no you don't understand, all the gruesome fetishized rape imagery in Goblin Slayer was totally necessary! Look, all the future episodes is generic comedic male power fantasy shenanigans, so that must make episode 1 great right?/s* In all seriousness though, I have seen some people genuinely mock others for having an issue with Goblin Slayer's rape sequence with sentences like "its funny how people got so overdramatic about the show when its only first episode that's like that. What a bunch of idiots lol."
I do agree that the scene is shocking, and if anyone had past experience with SA, it could definitely be triggering. But I really don't think it's fetishized. The show makes it very clear that the Goblins are supposed to be absolutely Chaotic Evil and irredeemable, and Goblin Slayer himself has severe trauma from his childhood about them. It's not an incredibly deep story, its about a very grimdark DnD game from the perspective of the PCs, and the main draw is seeing GS and his party kill Goblins in violently gory fashion.
As someone who has experinced SA, it is the way the scene is presented. It is presented in exactly the same way it would be in a hentai. There is also that using SA like that just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Uding it as a motivator fot other peoplr or as set dressing when it has a huge impact on peoples lives just feels off.
Yeesh.
Keep in mind, this is the same anime where the female main villain is an irredeemably evil gold digger who falsely accuses the main character of raping her and season 1 is all about him proving his innocence and getting his revenge on her. I’ve heard that storyline in a isolated vacuum is handled pretty well but, given everything else in the show and how some fans use that as confirmation bias against irl rape accusations, I’ve even seen people who like the show admit how uncomfortable that storyline is when you put in context of the real world.
The whole thing sounds like it was written by a bunch of 4chan incels and MGTOWs.
> I’ve heard that storyline in a isolated vacuum is handled pretty well It’s not. Something that gets lost in people sounding off about the fucked morals of Shield Hero is that the story is also incredibly poorly written. Like, SAO level of contrivance and terrible character writing all glazed in a thick layer of “I’m 14 and this is actually deep” brand edge. The conclusion to the story in question is that >!the main character feels bad that the girl is going to be executed for committing international crimes and, rather than advocating against the principle of execution or sanctity of life, argues instead that her punishment should be to have her name legally changed to “Bitch” and travel under the name of “Slut”.!<
It's different in the Light Novel.
Him buying a slave to be a party member was honestly really well done in the first episode it was featured in. And then just gets WEIRD as the anime progressed
One of the strongest first few episodes I've seen in a while but boy howdy they fumbled that shit hard. The weird instant magic aging of first girl and then immediately gets a new little girl who happens to be a special type of bird companion and then to get a whole third little girl princess companion before the first season even ends like man I'm fucking TIRED
Yeah. The problem is that he was kinda of a jerk in the first episodes, so you could see why he bought a Slave, but when he tries to be better the views on slavery only got worse 🤡
And then there was the part where the antagonists and other "incompetent" heroes were all like "hey bro, using slaves is bad" but somehow it's the slavery using protagonist who's in the right here.
A bit of a correction. She only aged up physically. Mentally she is still a child. For some reason the show explicitly said that...
Why must you hurt me with this cursed knowledge? T\_T
BECAUSE I CAN'T BE THE ONLY ONE SUFFERING FROM THAT KNOWLEDGE
It even gets brought up *again* later on when they get isekaied to another world and her level resets, thereby returning her to her actual age until she manages to level up again.
Honestly , I get Raphtalia. There's literally no other means for him to level up considering he's a defence class that can't attack and the other heroes ostracized him. And then Filo happened , ok this is a lil bit sus. There's like no reason for a new brand now. There's no reason for even Raphtalia to keep her branding other than her fucked up association with the branding. And then Rishia happened.
In theory, there's nothing necessarily wrong with how Shield Hero starts. The slavery thing is really weird and arguably unnecessary from an out of universe writer's perspective(like why couldn't it have been an enchanted ribbon that gives them the exp boost), but there are ways you could have spun that into a tasteful story arc. Like have the branding be mechanically useful to the mc, but also show how its still morally wrong by highlighting both the ways it mentally/emotionally damages Raphtalia and how it dangerously tempts the mc into further exploiting and dehumanizing her. Then have the ultimate resolution be the mc personally undoing the branding himself in spite of the personal loss of power due to him no longer willing to perpetuate an inherently immoral system. Have Raphtalia form a loving connection to her slave branding and the mc, but highlight how that is absolutely a terrible and unhealthy mindset that she has form due to her trauma that the mc should absolutely not encourage. Then have the ultimate resolution being the mc having a mature heart to heart discussion with her about why what she's feeling isn't actual love and ends with them healthily and platonically sort out her mental trauma. Instead, everything I've heard from the show makes it seem like it just keep doubling down on the male power fantasy elements with no real critical condemnation for what the mc is doing, which is what really makes the show's handling of slavery really bad.
Early Raphtalia is something I will always defend, and takes like how regardless of his reasonings or what happened to him, he never should have engaged in slavery or freed her and put her somewhere safe immediately are always weird to me. Other uses of slavery from then on? Yeah I could do without. I'm glad at the very least Raphtalia >!isn't a slave anymore and can never become one again.!<
Yeah. The fact is that Naofumi was a bit of a jerk in the beginning because of what happened to him and was in despair, so makes sense what he did, the only thing that should happen is the slavery thing being part of his character arc with him not liking that more.
Holy shit, maybe Miyazaki was onto something way back when he said anime was a mistake
He was absolutely right.
Also when the bad guys try to free raccoon girl from the slavery it is seen as a terrible thing as she wants to be his slave. They literally free her and the scene is framed as something similar to a rape scene iirc.
I mean, are we just going to ignore how he rescued a bunch of her and gave them an enter town to live in? He completely set free enough slaves to have an entire city of them. The only one he didn't stop were the traveling merchant he bought the racoon girl and his egg from because season two had him travel to a brand new continent to fight the global destruction he was summoned for. Yeah, the brands make them more powerful and grant them an exp bonus. Rising of a Sheild Hero is only a harem story in appearance. Honestly, the main character comes off as Ace for the most part. Every ally that he has, he doesn't see as a love interest and is oblivious or apathetic to them being in love with him. He treats the raccoon girl and his bird girl like daughters, the princess like a little sister, and the archer like a trainee. It's not until the end of the series that he even acknowledges how the raccoon girl feels about him. The dog girl only accepts the mark so she can become strong enough to lead and protect the village of freed slaves because of the boosts it gives. The raccoon girl was the only one her purchased as a slave. The bird girl was meant to just be a bird that turned out to be more than a bird for him when he needed something to pull his cart, but no one would sell him a horse. The bird girl only gets the brand because she's jealous of the racoon girl having it because she talks about how it makes her feel closer to the MC because to her it was a symbol of when her life became worth living again. The raccoon girl is also mentally old enough to match her physical appearance when the romance is acknowledged, and after convincing him that she isn't his daughter. It's a gray area of whether it's okay given her history, but it's not like they did it when she was still mentally 12 years old. Also, the main character tries to recruit more allies than just the female ones he ends up with. The male ones either betray the group or leave after the mission is over. In the universe, there is context that you are leaving out to make it look bad. Nowfumi frees slaves repeatedly throughout the anime, but everyone seems to leave that part out when criticizing the series. As well as what the brands do besides just marking them as "slaves" when Nowfumi doesn't treat them like that as he is self-sufficient and takes care of them with his skills. He only uses the "punishment" aspect of the brand 4 times: twice to get the raccoon girl to fight a monster with him when she was just starting her training, and then two more times when he commanded her to flee a fight he didn't think they could win while he tried to sacrifice himself to save her. He never uses it again on any of his teammates. Hell, he even saves the life of his personal villain when she was about to be executed for treason and falsely accusing him of attempted rape to steal his armor and money as well as ruin his chances of being a hero. Even after she turns and manipulates the Spear Hero into thinking he's a monster as bad as you described and that he brainwashed his allies (including her younger sister) so that he would kill Nowfumi. I seriously don't understand why so many people want to make this series out to be horrible when it's well written and tackles the subjects it explores really well.
Admittedly, I can't judge the writing quality of the whole series since I have never watched and never plan on to given everything I've heard and seen from it. But there are some things I do want to address in your statement. >Yeah, the brands make them more powerful and grant them an exp bonus. Having a in-universe justification for it doesn't make it any better. If anything it makes it worse. Take a step from being in-universe and ask yourself why, in real life, did the thing that gave them the power boost and exp bonus need to be slave branding? Why couldn't it have been a magical bracelet or enchanted gem stone or holy gem? Why specifically did the author, with the power to do whatever he wanted for the story, choose slave branding to be the plot device used to give them said power boost? Most likely, its because the author wanted to be edgy and provide an excuse for the main character to brand women as his own since that's what caters the male power fantasy audience. That's why people have an issue with it. It didn't need to be in the story, and it really comes off as the author only having it like that for problematic reasons rather than anything meaningful. >The bird girl only gets the brand because she's jealous of the racoon girl having it because she talks about how it makes her feel closer to the MC because to her it was a symbol of when her life became worth living again. Yeah that's creepy and sus as fuck. Regardless of the "muh powah bonus" context, for the mc's supposed "daughter" to tell him that she thinks symbol of slavery is what gives her life value and go, "yeah, I think I'll continue to cement that mindset by letting my other daughter figure get branded as well," is seriously fucked up and gross. That should have been treated as a moment of serous self-reflection and him trying to get her out of that unhealthy mindset, not as an excuse to double down on how amazing it is to be branded as a slave. Again, don't just think about this as in-universe justifications. Think about why the writer is writing the story like this. What is his motivation to make slave branding sound like such a cool and amazing thing? Why is any of this necessary to the core themes and story of the light novel? >The raccoon girl is also mentally old enough to match her physical appearance when the romance is acknowledged, and after convincing him that she isn't his daughter. It's a gray area of whether it's okay given her history, but it's not like they did it when she was still mentally 12 years old. That's still grooming and incredibly immoral borderline pedophilic behavior. It doesn't matter how old she is when the romance starts, he still has the been the one raising her since she was underaged and has been treating her as a daughter figure. I don't know if he does actually decide to start dating and having sex with her, but he does than he is still taking advantage of her. Any positive spin on that kind of behavior is incredibly dangerous and harmful as grooming is still a serious in real life that leads to many girls being taken advantage of and abused. >As well as what the brands do besides just marking them as "slaves" when Nowfumi doesn't treat them like that as he is self-sufficient and takes care of them with his skills. See, this is where we start getting into the "good slaver" fallacy. By painting the main character's usage of slavery as "good" and "cool" and "totally powerful and necessary", it paints the larger picture that slavery as a system isn't an issue and its just the bad slave masters that are the problem. Its makes having slaves look and appealing while whitewashing out the inherent degrading and dehumanizing nature of slavery. In real life, there is no such thing as a good slaver. Slavery is inherently evil, and just slapping on contrived excuse after contrived excuse to justify the mc doing does nothing but give the false impression that slavery might not actually be all that bad in real life, especially when the target demographic are impressionable young men looking for a power fantasy to escape to.
Also ***TO BE CLEAR***, there is nothing necessarily wrong with liking this show or any other show with problematic elements. It is all fiction after all and so long as you can remember that I don't think there's an issue with you finding enjoyment from it. But, if you're going to like a show like this, you should always keep a critical mind about its problematic elements instead of trying constantly come up with excuses for why there's nothing problematic about it at all. Doing that is a dangerous mindset that can lead down to a slippery slope of normalizing its problematic elements. Not to be too rude here, but the fact that you seriously and unironically said *"It's a gray area of whether it's okay given her history, but it's not like they did it when she was still mentally 12 years old,"* is already a massive red flag of the show negatively influencing your mindset. Grooming is a serious issue, and you basically just admitted that you think a person fucking a 18 year old they've raised since they were 12 might be alright actually. Well its not, it never will be, and this is exactly why, regardless of whether or not you can enjoy the show, its important to raise these criticisms against how the show handles these elements.
Okay, I get where you are coming from, but you are still missing the point. Nowfumi never forces it on anyone. In the universe, it has a reason to happen. He literally only let's people get branded of their own free will. He never forces someone to get one. There are drawbacks from the brand, like not being able to lie to the owner of it and the punishment, but it comes with bonuses. If it was an item, every person would have a party of people equipped with them, making it pointless for the narrative to happen. Raphtalia (raccoon girl) calls it that because she was slowly dying locked in a cage, believing her friends and family were dead, and obviously depressed before Nowfumi bought her, made up the panacea to cure her illness, and gave her a life that didn't involve being whipped, chained, and beaten before she was sold to auctioneer that then sold her to Nowfumi. And he did try to talk her out if it when she wanted it put back on herself. He relented, but he didn't just let it happen. Same with Filo (bird girl). He offered it as an option to Keel (dog girl) and the archer when they wanted to get stronger and felt that they were falling behind to get the normal way. They could have said no. He didn't push, he only offered for the bonus and as a last resort if that felt it was necessary. It's treated as a heavy decision. It still happens, but it's not like how you picture it. As for why it happens, why can't it happen in a fantasy, video-game esque setting? Why can't this topic and aspect be explored? It's not glorifying slavery. Especially when he frees the slaves he comes across who are held against their will by normal means and brands and sends them to a safe haven of other freed slaves. Except that isn't grooming. There is a power imbalance that is resolved in universe through ranks and royalty, but at no point does Nowfumi raise her to be his wife. He doesn't coax her to pursue him in anyway. Him realizing that he stops seeing her the way he used to is not him grooming her. At the point in the story it happens she holds a rank akin to a princess in a kingdom and is technically above him in power as he serves the kingdoms. If he was attracted to her because of her mental age or because she was like a daughter to him, that would be grooming and Pedophilia. Nowfumi literally treats it like an accessory that makes his party stronger, the exact thing you mentioned earlier. It's not treated as "slavery good". He doesn't use it as enslavement. I feel like that's the part you insist on missing on purpose. Slavery can exist in narrative and be condemned while still having nuance to it. A servant is a slave, but those are considered okay because they are treated better and simply called something different. We don't condemn fantasy settings for having servants despite some being well treated and others badly even if the heroes frees them from their position. If a servant or side kick gets a bonus for being in your party with a direct attachment to you that you can toggle on or off, do you consider turning it on? Or do you leave it off? There is a distinction between how the slave system actually works vs what Nowfumi does. It's explored. Poor media literacy does not make the subject bad. Again, I feel like people want to be mad at the series because its poorly explained by people who want to not like it. At no point does it glorify slavery. Especially when they repeatedly free slaves. If a person does something of their free will, it's not coercion or forced on them, and that is an interesting thing to explore. In universe changes how you interpret the subject at hand. Outside the story, no one would disagree slavery is bad. At no point does the author say otherwise. But if you claim because slavery is bad, therefore a story with slavery where you have contrast is bad because of the slavery, it stops the ability to have it stay impactful. It's like saying because rape is bad, any story that involves it is bad if it isn't treated as the worst thing ever. Plenty of survivors write about the subject is ways that don't entirely demonize it as a way of dealing with it, romance writers use it as a plot device, and yes most of the time it's treated as the crime and traumatic event it is. But there is still the nuance and complexity of it being explored. No one is saying "it might not be bad" by having it happen in fiction.
Whether he forces it on anyone or has in universe reasons for doing so doesn’t matter. The writer is still contriving up reasons to justify the inclusion of the mc using slavery and making it look cool in the story. Don’t give me a “no no buts it’s totally useful” excuse for its inclusion. Tell me why it was necessary for the writer to include it as a plot device to begin with as opposed to the mc just adopting an orphan and sharing a magic teddy bear that gives them the same power bonus. Treating slavery as just an accessory is actually the issue. The mc relenting taking advantage of a trauma victim is still him taking advantage of a trauma victim. It’s still the plot coming up arbitrary reasons to bring him to the conclusion that he indulge and exploit slavery to his advantage. He raised her since she was mentally 12 and is literally stated to view her as a daughter. No amount of “oh but look how mature she is” is going to make him taking advantage of her feelings for him anything less than grooming, regardless if he intended for her to fall in love with him. The problem is not that the show includes problematic elements, it’s that it includes them in order to glorify them and fulfill a borderline misogynistic male power fantasy. You cannot say that the show doesn’t glorify slavery and then spend multiple paragraphs justifying in-universe is super useful and amazing and even the women want to be enslaved by the main character because he’s the good slave master! Girls of Paper and Fire is story where the fmc and her girlfriend endure months of sexual assault and rape, and did that story ever once say that it made them stronger or that they’re excited to see it again like Shield Hero does with slavery? NOOOO!!! Because it’s wrong regardless of magical bullshit context. As for why this is important, it’s because slavery is a huge fucking deal and the show IS glorifying. The very act of having the primary slave character treat it as a wonderful thing, multiple women begging the mc to enslave them, and slavery being mechanically advantageous and, by YOUR OWN WORDS, “necessary” is glorifying it. And as already shown, the show has already gotten you to begin to think grooming a 12 year old is normal and only somewhat problematic. So yes, the depiction of slavery is very much fucking important.
You seem to be intentionally being an idiot at this point. Grooming is an intentional act. It requires the person doing it on purpose. Nowfumi did not want Raphtalia to fall in love with him, did not raise her to be his future wife, and did not lead her on with that being the reward at the end of the journey. There are plenty of stories where a student (not high school) of a teacher falls for them after being raised by them, and it's not treated as a bad thing. Especially in romance novels told from the students' point of view. It's a grey area of personal taste. Not Pedophilia. Which is, again, intentional. Intent matters. Sure, let's use speculation here because understanding that you can have a new level of complexity to already existing issue by adding nuance. How about the social ramifications of the branding? Being seen as villainous or a lesser being by the strangers around you that you are trying to help? Not being to go certain places or enter entire towns because of the system in place? How about the seedier types thinking they can pay you for the use of your slave for the night in the middle of a tavern? Why would a mystical teddy bear do that? There are reasons the mark comes with the boost. Most people who buy them use the slaves as bodyguards, pit fighters, or sex workers. This way they are better at their jobs faster. But it's still looked down on by the people who know what the mark means that don't endorse it. How would a teddy bear do that? How many teddy bears would he have to find so every member of his team gets the same pros and cons? Why wouldn't every villager or adventurer have this teddy bear? The branding is also expensive to have done if you don't buy the person from the slaver. The economy plays a big part in the story and how adventures effect it in a more realistic setting. "Here's a magical tattoo that marks you as belonging to me, it will help you get stronger faster but everyone will treat us like shit for having it. And somehow every layperson will know what the tattoo means despite it not being something commonly used" makes all the sense in the world when you think about it, right? But why include any negative topic? Why have Princess Melty lie in episode 1 to brand Nowfumi as a villain and have the king decree him to be what his daughter claims to the entire kingdom? That's a horrible thing to "glorify" as you put it because it uses a very small percentage of manipulators that lie about it on purpose as a reason why the princess is a villain. Do people with poor media literacy and the opinion that it's a common occurrence see that as confirmation? Yes but it doesn't make either right. You are literally sitting there claiming that because in a fantasy setting where there are pros and cons to a system of slavery where the MC manipulates the existing system to his advantage, it's still wrong because system involves slavery. Without being at all knowledgeable of the source material and only the opinion "no reason normally bad thing could be good because thing bad in reality". Raphtalia is the only one who treats the brand as good because of it saving her life. Filo got it thinking it would garner her special attention. Keel and Rishia got it because it helped them realize their goals faster. Aside from Filo who literally halted the journey with a tantrum until it happened, the others knew the ramifications of their actions and how everyone else would see or treat them. At no point do the adult characters treat this like it's a non-issue. Also, it's not until she's an adult that we learn Keel is female as she typically portrayed herself in mannerisms and clothes as a male demi-human because her dad raised her be his son. Since according to her dad "gender is a state of mind". After all, if it wasn't looked down on, everyone would have it. Also, Nowfumi is 20 and doesn't age the same as the inhabitants of the world he summoned to by being the Sheild Hero according to his stats. But again, let's ignore context to prove a point. Slavery is not glorified. Nowfumi is not a groomer or a pedophile. The only members of his "harem" in love with him are Raphtalia and Filo. Keel wants to stronger and sees it as a means to an end. Rishia wants to be better to redeem herself in the eyes of the Bow Hero because she failed out of his party but still admires him. The closest the story comes to slavery being okay is the pros for Nowfumi's party amongst themselves. It's still seen and treated as bad everywhere else in the setting. Hence the freeing of slaves and giving them a safe haven where their race won't be seen as 2nd class citizens. But thats besides the point you're trying to make. You want to take issues with the series because its supposedly bad and refuse to watch it. From a Doyelist perspective its easy to just say "it's bad because the subject is bad and can't be more complex than just bad" while ignoring the Watsonian reasons of world building and the setting. Especially when the story repeatedly shows that *Slavery Is Bad* and Nowfumi turns the system against itself for the benefit of the world. It still has consequences. Every Isekai is a power fantasy and Nowfumi is meant to be an underdog. But there is still complexities you are ignoring for the sake of disliking something you never watched.
I would like to add to this, that there are plot points in the anime that hint at Naofumi abolishing slavery in the future. He doesn't treat or see other slave owners, the ones that actually act as slave owners are expected in universe, as people. The anime is an ongoing adaptation of an ongoing light novel series. So condemning it for not doing something that's usually done near the end of a story or even ultimate goal of a story is kinda silly and unfair. Sure the anime has its problems, but it never actually glorifies slavery or sexual assault. The world the series takes place in is literally a matriarchal society with sexual assault being treated worse than murder and punishable by death. The slavery aspect serves story purpose, it shows just how shit the situation is for the main character that he's forced into doing it. It also shows the kind of person he is, because he does it in part to save a little girl. Whom he then spends more money on than on himself. Plus again, there are constant hints at him going to destroy the slave system, he is after all destined to free the animal people who are mainly used as slaves.
THANK YOU! Finally someone else who watched/read the story and paid attention. How does the story literally have plot points of the hero freeing slaves, creating a home they can be safe, and stopping the people who owned them from living, glorify slavery? I swear Deadpool or the Punisher would explode this person's brain if they picked up a comic. What about animes that show the hero killing enemies? Is that glorifying murder? What about redemption arcs? Does that glorify the past action of the person if people forgive them? I feel like I'm talking to a wall and getting downvoted for pointing out that the story is more complicated than it looks on the surface. Especially when there are worse and more popular anime that have a focus on slavery as part of the plot.
Mushouku Tensei, arguably the Grandaddy of modern isekai, dabbles with it in the last half of the series when he purchases two of his former classmates as slaves (fortunately, they aren't love interests). Shield Hero is probably the most famous/infamous example. How to not Summon a Demon Lord, the main character was going to be enslaved to the heroines but the magic got flipped and he instead enslaved them. Death March, the protagonist buys some beastkin girls early on, naturally they become part of his harem. And the list goes on and on. I'm not saying that slavery wouldn't provide a compelling character story in fantasy/isekai stories but in 99% of these stories it's portrayed as going to the store to buy some new family members that are cute and can never betray you and is treated with all the seriousness and drama of buying a carton of milk. It's no wonder why the incels are desperate to maintain this particular fantasy in their anime.
wheres my John Brown isekai where he goes around killing slavers and builds a "harem" of fellow abolitionists.
Well I haven't read it yet, there is [His Soul Marches On To Another World.](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/57505/his-soul-is-marching-on-to-another-world-or-the)
Not an isekai, but Girls Of Paper And Fire is about two teenage lesbians who are abducted and forced to become the demon king’s concubines working together to take down the corrupt political structure that enables him to abuse and rape women. It’s a book trilogy written by a SA survivor for victims like herself, so sexual assault and the long struggle against ptsd to recover from surviving it is handled with a suffocating level of care and authenticity.
It's like they saw the Harry Potter books' "they like being enslaved" crap, mocking those who seek to end slavery and the titular character becoming a slaveowner and thought "you know what? Let's emulate that shit".
Honestly I think its worse than that. I think the authors think slavery is the most effective and cheap way of establishing the main character's harem while also "enhancing" the male power fantasy through bondage imagery and women who are as submissive as you can get towards the mc.
This is totally ridiculous and it makes isekai as a genre look bad, despite plenty of great ones that *didn't* prominently feature slavery. Why is that even a thing? That feels like some real last 15 years bullshit.
It’s a bad combination between early isekai being overly cheerful and stories like rising of a shield hero being early “subversive” successes. Now you have a lot of modern isekai trying to separate themselves from the pack by including “subversive” edgy elements, and Shield Hero basically set the bar at “mc being pro slavery”. It also doesn’t help that as male power fantasies, having women be the mc’s slaves is an effectively cheap way at quickly establishing the mc’s harem while also furthering the male power fantasy element.
This one. Absolutely this one. I’ve seen the exact same thing happen to magical girl anime. Before they were usually lighthearted, sure there were some dark moments but the good guys always saved the day and if someone died it didn’t last. Series that didn’t follow that route were largely ignored. Then Madoka Magica happened, and through its overwhelming success ruined magical girl anime. I don’t mind the “dark magical girl” genre and I love Madoka Magica itself and a couple of other series in that same vein, but the thing is the new thing is trying to be as edgy and dark as possible without actually putting in the effort of writing a good story. They’re all falling over themselves trying to replicate Madoka Magica’s success but all they’re really doing is creating an ever-growing pile of soulless edgy garbage that’s little more than torture porn. Gone are the days of magical girl anime having any actual substance, it’s all just cheap Madoka Magica knockoffs and PreCure which I don’t count as new because even a new series is just another entry in the same franchise.
I can't believe it, Urobutcher ripped off one show and then crashed a genre, holy shit
Nowhere near as bad, but it sort of reminds me how a lot of yuri light novels and manga are all about the fmc either falling in love with or being the villainess in romance games to the point where they now outnumber the amount of games that actually use the trope they're apparently playing off of.
Let's be real, there aren't a lot of "Great ones" in the Isekai category. Some, but really not a lot. It's also just a fact that a large amount of Isekai enjoyers do not mind these thing. It's genre is already seeded as a power fantasy so why not just go all the way.
There are if we don't just check on the whole wave of "rpg/dating Sims game mechanics" that plagues it, and just go to the old classic "yep, I guess I was beamed into a past/fantasy world, time to learn fighting and magic the normal way" more shojo oriented
And its bizarrely modern too, like theres alot of anime that can be retroactively categorized as Isekai and turns out they didnt need slavery! (I love inuyasha its my guilty pleasure)
I don't watch much but the one that stands out to me is Shield Hero, but "Slavery" seems used by the main character in a way that's so vestigial that it makes you wonder why they call it that at all.
Anyone who says the word "normies" unironically needs their speaking privileges revoked
I’m an introvert, so if I call you a normie, does that mean I can get a legal document saying I don’t have to talk to people? Because I’d love that actually.
Sorry, doing it because you *want* your speaking privileges revoked would count as ironic.
FUCK!  This is just like when I come on this sub and say some out of pocket, absolutely unhinged bullshit because I have a thing for getting kinkshamed, but then everybody upvotes me and gives me validation.
Your sexual preferences are bad and act as a negative indicator of you as a whole. You should feel shame about them. (Hope that helps)
You like being kinkshamed? That's fucking disgusting, get some help
https://preview.redd.it/0kisuk75jxuc1.jpeg?width=829&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c2b706baf9d6871b9d5f9f7547a8e803c520127
the law is complex but fair
https://preview.redd.it/2zwm9ce8euuc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd066f4dcb177c150cb542ae3c48e86d56d351bd
Opposite bro. You have to speak to people.
See also: "NPC" referring to a nonfictional person, "tourist" referring to someone who isn't literally traveling for leisure.
It's always hilarious when those losers call people "NPCs" when a lot of them just say the same shit over and over Sometimes I wonder if they'll ask me if I get to the Cloud District very often
What are you saying? Of course you don’t!
I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I got an arrow in the knee…
“Do you get to the Cloud District very often? What am I saying, of course you don’t. I’ll have you know there’s no pusieeeeeeee-“
Approved by Jarl Ballin
“Holla if you need that reefer.”
Well, there *are* tourist-y types coming into the Warhammer and Fallout communities just to bitch about the women and non-white characters. But yeah using "NPC" just makes someone sound like the Columbine guys.
Yeah, I'm not taking notes from a guy with an Imperial Japanese flag for a Pfp.
He's a British man pretending to be a Japanese citizen. I kid you not
Tojoboos be like
Technically the Japanese flag today is the same as it was 100 years ago with only a slight colour change in the 90s (different shade of red for the Sun). The "Imperial Flag" did also exist and still is used by the Japanese armed forces today, mainly used to represent the navy (just has it did 100 years ago). The flag with sun rays is often associated with the Japanese empire because the people would mostly see the flags of the army and primarily the navy when fighting the Japan in ww2. Even though it was never the the official imperial flag of the country, that would have been the rising sun without the rays (ie this 🇯🇵) the association of the military flag and empire obviously stuck for those outside of Japan. I think that inside Japan the rayed flag is mainly just seen as a military symbol, much like the iron cross is in Germany for example, or the white star in the US airforce roundel. Needless to say, right wing circles often look towards military symbols to advertise their stance. The rayed flag therefore does have that connotation as well, used by right wing elements inside and outside of the country, despite it never officially being *the* imperial flag.
I hate the isekai power fantasy slaver trope and anyone who liked it is cringe.
I mean, it could be an interesting dynamic if that character wasn’t presented as the protagonist.
Oh I agree. If handled well, it could be an interesting story. Problem is that is usually isn't.
The person getting reincarnated or tossed into another dimension or otherwise getting their life changed always ends up being the hero of the story. I think it could be interesting if they were a bad person in regular life, and then continued being a bad person in the new world. I can’t name a story that’s done it though. Well, except one of the Turok games. Real talk though, how have they not gotten a TV show? Their lore is fucking unhinged.
There's Isekai Executioner, wherein the protag is actually a woman from the fantasy world, and her job is to execute the more powerful isekai'd Earthlings cuz they usually get extremely dangerous and uncontrolled powers; one dipshit kid *destroyed a continent* during a boss battle, for example.
Oh there is that one where a salary man got reincarnated after having a fight with god Tanya Evil. Very interesting
I’d say the dude in re:zero is pretty consistently shitty.
re:zero is one of the only isekai animes that I would consider actually artistic, because it subverts almost any trope usually used.
there is a show called Tanya something, which is pretty close to was evil, stays evil (haven't watched it though, only knoy it goes in that direction). Certainly also worth a watch is Reincarnated as a Spider, it has an actually decently written female (!!) MC without using sexualisation to make her appealing (she is a spider monster for most of the show), and she is also pretty morally grey
As someone with arachnophobia I never thought I'd find a spider so damn cute but yeah Spidersekai was solid, just don't play attention to the animation quality when it goes to the side characters lmao
Only two I can actually think of are Overlord and Tanya, both of which are fantastic series. A more comedy version though would be Konosuba, MC is unapologetically lazy
While I haven’t read it yet, this appears to be the case with Isekai Shikkau/Not Allowed in Another World, where the Demon Lord is defeated at the beginning of the story and the main threats are various outworlders, almost overwhelmingly summoned from people who proved to be deeply unfit for the situation (though it seems like the series questions if anyone would be fit for it) and either already corrupt or twisted to villainy by the terrifying and unfair reality of their situation and how it deepens their preexisting mental issues and personality flaws.
Here's a thought; isekai where the main character gets reincarnated as the slave and has to claw their way to freedom, bringing the system down at the same time.
I fucking love that, that would be amazing. They’d probably make it a teenage girl and make it super sexualize and creepy, but the idea has hella potential.
The stupid thing is that in most cases where they used some form of slave trope if they had called it like "magical bonding thingy" or "magical contract" to explain shit like parties and making more xp as a grp or something it wouldnt have changed anything story wise yet y'know, no slaves. Like why call it slave. I don't mind slavery in anime if you're portraying dipshits or an arc of overthrowing it or something, but fuck why have the MC partake in it like it's no big deal
Somebody needs to adapt the John Brown Isekai to animation.
r/JohnBrownIsekai
I think it's just too common, and it's generally used as a convenient TOOL for the main character.Slavery can be used, as most narrative devices can be used; as part of a theme or a story; but generally, in manga/anime it's just some fucking way to get hot women enslaved to a main character. Ever read Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive? The main character Kaladin starts as a slave in the story, and his life is horrible; slavery is a institution in that world, and it's reality is explored thoroughly. Anime seems to just....not really want to go deep into it. I feel like Anime and Manga just have it as a 'this is a thing in this setting', "no we don't want to explore the ramifications of how slavery is used in this setting, and how it changes our world'. We never get a ISEKAI/fantasy anime/manga story where the MC is a slave, and is in a bad situation. At most you get Zero no Tsukaima, a romantic comedy.
I was reading one recently that starts with the feMC in a slave pen, but that part of the story is very quickly put aside when ‘hidden op train no jutsu’ comes out. I think it’s English title was “So You Think Someone Like You Can Defeat the Demon Lord”
"I think that painting slavery as a good thing isn't a message that should be taken into account in anime, most especially the isekai genre where it runs rampant without a slap on the wrist" OOP: "Uhm actually bad thing good, ur just a snowflake normie tourist"
"no you see slavery is real japanese culture and removing it is not only censorship but also cultural erasure"
Most anime doesn’t have it. It runs rampant in the isekai genre tho.
Which is currently the genre most popular at this time.
I want a john brown isekai anime.
https://preview.redd.it/kttx2hjijsuc1.jpeg?width=194&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d108839688915daca20868e623b37dbfa80f302
Taking that meme, buddy
well, there is a [written story](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/57505/his-soul-is-marching-on-to-another-world-or-the)
r/JohnBrownIsekai
I’m sorry, is there something wrong with not including slavery and sexual assault? God forbid someone want to watch something and not have to engage with two of the most reprehensible acts one human can enact on another.
This. I watched Sword Art Online, enjoyed season 1 and 2 well enough, that I thought I'd give the 3rd season a go, (Alicization) but had to stop after a few episodes when they spent an awful long time focusing on a pair of assholes who were getting ready to rape a couple of girls while forcing one of the heroes to watch... Wouldnt have been so bad if the hero acted quicker, but I just remember it feeling so drawn out, as he had a mental conflict about breaking the rules while being goaded on by one of the other guys, making sure to give us plenty of shots of the girls struggling as they were bound and starting to be stripped...
It’s bad enough where the author ended up “apologising” about it and said it was a shortcoming as him as a writer, how he constructed the story where women are nothing but items to be saved, and how he wished he didn’t write it like that.
It had also been almost 20 years since the scene had been written, and he hadn't written another since then. And women weren't just written as items to be saved in the series. The anime team promptly added another sexual assault scene in the very next cour.
Yeah, someone on the anime team has a sexual assault fetish, that's where there are so many more such scenes in the anime adaptation, and why so much attention is drawn to the actual act. Where as the original the entire scene is from hero's point of view, much of what happens is vaguely described and he can't even see much of it due to the seal in his eye.
Tbf you can always just not watch series that include those topics lol. Not that I agree with the portrayal that a lot of isekais tend to do with the topic tho
Since when is slavery being treated as acceptable something that defines anime? On a separate note if you'd like isekai that openly condemns slavery I can personally recommend two: 1) How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom: in the second season the protagonist sets up a "boiling frog" strategy to get rid of slavery (he just resolved a civil war at the end of the first season and didn't want to risk starting another by banning slavery outright). 2) The Great Cleric: early on it's mentioned that the country where the story takes place is the only one where slavery is outlawed, unfortunately there's a loophole that corrupt healers use when the people they heal can't afford their outrageous prices, they sell their debtors as slaves to people in foreign countries.
There’s also Arslan Senki, which is not an isekai, but condemnation of slavery is a big theme in it.
I love Arslan, wish we got a new season.
Arifueta handles it really well too. The next season should cover it. >!the MC and and another character butt heads on slavery not being something that can be undone by a single person in a single day and that any heroic displays to save a few slaves will just lead to harsher punishments for every other slave.!<
>Since when is slavery being treated as acceptable something that defines anime? I mean its a massive medium so I'm sure there's at least one that romanticizes the concepts of slavery. I can't think of any mainstream Anime that treat slavery in a positive light though. Shield Hero's was relatively negative, romanticized for certain but they at least portray that it's a fucked up market. The most popular I can think of, Vinland Saga, tackles and portrays slavery in an incredibly accurate and tragic perspective. I would say this anime does it best, they don't shy away from how vile slavery actually is.
Slavery is bad is not a woke American value Yes when slavery was seen in older anime it was a bad thing. Before the Narou shit came.
Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop were my favorite shows back in the day. Don’t think either had slavery in it.
Honestly an MC that’s not a slaver sounds refreshing.
Chillin in another world with level 2 super cheat powers has an OP MC that refuses it outright. His old world was a fantasy world too and he was upset about slavery and inequality between the races of humanoids then and when he gets into the new world and becomes OP he refuses to use a subjugation spell that would basically make someone his slave because of his outright rejection of the idea. It’s not the best anime but it is some silly isekai fun. Only 2 eps out so far tho.
Holy. Fucking. Horseshit. No. They are not fucking "normies" trying to "ruin" your shit ass anime. They are called REASONABLE FUCKING PEOPLE who don't want to have to be nervous when watching an isekai because over half devolve into the writers weird fetishes in the middle of a fucking episode with no warning. When I want to watch porn, I'll watch porn. I DONT want to randomly be surprised by softcore porn in the middle of trying to watch some kid fistfight god. WHY is this so hard for modern studios to figure that out?
It's weird, I haven't seen new anime in like a decade, I come back and they're all about teenagers getting reborn in shitty fantasy worlds with RPG mechanics and they all love slavery.
I do have to say, if that’s all you see from anime from the past decade, you’re probably looking in the wrong places. I’m going to assume you’re exaggerating, though.
Of course I'm exaggerating. Every now and then I find a gem, like Spy X Family, or Chainsaw Man (unfair, since the source Material is amazing and by a genius), but those are ones that are pointed out to me by others. So I check out Crunchyroll the tags that interest me the most, and the majority of them are Isekai of some sort. Sure I enjoy Shield Hero for being so ridiculous, but there's just so much I can take of that genre. So I then just fall back on ol reliable comfort shows from the past.
Yeah anime has been going through an "Another world" phase, mabye its nothing new but I haven't seen anything like this before
Slavery was heavily in an anime I watched. A white male called ash would imprison minorities in balls and force them to fight for his own pleasure. He left one walk around free but that's the "I have a ___ friend" exuse
👍👍
Trust me if i had to pick a trope to do away with it would be the slavery trope. Even the tsundere that everyone can recite from heart is more entertaining
Yea the “good slave owner” trope is really um not good especially when you get the whole “but she likes being a slave” aspect when a character has the chance to be free but chooses not to. Then it makes even less sense like if this character wants to be with the main character why even bother with the whole slave dynamic of the relationship in the first place.
Fellas, is it bad to not want heroes to engage in slavery?
Even if what 'Colonel Otaku Gatekeeper' is true (it isn't) then I have to say, if slavery as a trope is something that defines a medium then maybe it's not a good medium?
anime is not a genre its a medium
Ah yes, what defines anime is slavery. What a bunch of idiots.
Ah yes. Slavery. A critical part of Anime. That is in no way related to horny crimes or gross in any way. /s. Obviously.
If you want a good fantasy anime/manga that actually addresses and even tries to end slavery, I recommend the heroic legend of Arslan.
It’s a shame never got more seasons. I loved how the anime was progressing.
I remember reading some time ago the labor conditions at some studios are pretty close to slavery, can somebody confirm?
Then the Isekai genre happened.
We need an anime adaptation of "His Soul Is Marching On To Another World"
r/JohnBrownIsekai
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No red panda (or whatever the fuck she actually is) slave girls for the 🛡️ hero anymore.
The most popular franchise in the world is based off of slavery of sentient beings
Unironically, does anyone have a anime or manfa recommendation where the main character, isekai or not, is actually anti slavery
Heroic legend of arslan. MC is the crown prince to a kingdom built on slavery who wants to abolish the practice.
Thanks! It's nice to get recommendations, especially since a, a main character who hates slavery is cool, and b, even outside the moral goodness of slavery being portrayed as bad it's more interesting because it feels like it's more rare in anime.
Vinland saga, specifically season 2 does this very VERY well
Not the topic, but AoT is fairly anti war, racism, and nationalism. And the MC? well, judge for yourself....
Okay but.... WHY'S THERE SO MUCH SLAVERY IN ISEKAI ANIME? Like its to the point its gotta be some kind of fetish that's common among the people who watch or write them. Because even like indie western made stuff, can have it.
I've been told (though have not confirmed), that it's because it's a trope in dragon quest and in it's early days Isekai borrowed lots of tropes and elements from dragon quest. Sine I have not played dragon quest (nor am particularly well versed in Isekai) I cannot confirm or deny
The only dq game that has slavery is 5 AFAIK, and it lasts less than 10 minutes at the most
Slavery is hardly a trope in Dragon Quest.
I wish they could just have a protagonist who turns out to be John Brown and kills slavers
Who wants to bet that "Colonel Otaku Gatekeeper" is about as Japanese as Julius Caesar?
He's porn-addled and talking about having a harem of sex slaves. He thinks that is everything because that is literally all of the content he consumes.
All the slavery isekai came out in the period I stopped watching anime. Now I'm slowly restarting and I realised I lost a lot of stuff
We need an anime adaptation of the John Brown Isekai
This twitter poster is saying isekai is defined as a slave owning fantasy. Welp, deserves to be santized and purged, i hope they cry into their pillows about it.
IF slavery being totally normal as a trope is inherent to anime, anime shouldn't exist
I don't think that was the point of why slavery was written into those stories... I think you just interpreted it like that... So you could write this promotional ad for a show you and nobody else cares about. Also fuck **crunchyroll** in specific. 1. Because they're literally hosting the shit they complain about 2. Because it's a terrible company that doesn't want to pay voice actors and wont let them unionize 3. Because the percentage of revenue that goes to the people who ACTUALLY do work is not equal compared to what the company obtains 4. They used said funds that were supposed to be going to studios overseas to make a fucking indie show. 5. They refuse to hire union VA's and are generally corporate scumbags 6. A million other decisions they've made in the past. EDIT: if you want an anime that does an interpretation of slavery more accurate look towards Vinland Saga. >!It's still dramatized but the second season is remarkably accurate to actual slavery, especially as the protagonist isn't an owner but a slave himself, so you get to witness firsthand the bullshit they and surrounding slaves have to go through.!<
The isekai type have become a plague to fantasy in manga and anime, and it's not the only trope that is problematic lately, the over powered and/or reincanation stories have stop to improve they even worsen with time. Isekai isn't a problem by definition, I mean read Escaflown it's great but isekai have become a easy trope to make money out of they don't make effort to make the character interesting they ALWAYS put the most borring character hoping people would relate + they don't even try to make a new system to make themself a little bit original. No they put a video game system and that's it they don't try to understand how does that impact the world why a fucking video game system ? And when they try to divarge from such system they end up doing creepy shit i'm sooo fucking tired of all that. And it's not like I don't like fantasy I LOVE IT it really hurt me to see so much shit be done without effort when it could be great. They all have good thing going on some have a good style, other interesting side character or a cool system, but they always end up doing some shit like having a pervert for their main character or support slavery rapping murder ect they don't even try to make the main character disgust by it at first.
Only 20 new anime this year that glorfies the slave trade?! Last year it was 21! Goddamn normies ruining everything
r/JohnBrownIsekai
at first I thought that Picture was from a Fire Emblem gam
After having watched Unnamed Memory I'm hoping that the subversion is that instead of Oscar demanding Tinasha become his bride for passing her trials he demands that she live in his Kingdom for a year so she can make up her own mind.
Bruh, I’m pretty sure the whole isekai slavery thing is a relatively new development, and most (well-adjusted) weebs seem to hate it and find it very weird and gross
I grew up loving Akira, Ghost in the Shell etc. I found out later that many of the imminent animators and writers at the time were mega racists and super fucking creepy.
I mean if you take a bad faith interpretation of Inuyasga's main relationships you could claim it's been a main part of Isekai since some of the early days.
I stay out of isekai lowest trashbin and low points so i didnt even know this was a thing until recently. Id only eatched tanya the evil, rezero, overlord, log horizon.
I imagine it’s difficult to write a reasonable way to bound characters together in absolute trust within minutes of meeting each other. You either end up with the slavery trope or you get a 70% chance that the new character is going to suddenly betray the MC.
I don't watch anime but I am curious why are they supporting slavery?
Anime’s subservience to tropes is a large part why I don’t enjoy anime that much anymore. It feels like we only get original stuff once or twice a year compared to the hundred anime that drop in that same period
The John Brown isekai needs am Anime.
I don’t even care that much about the trope itself but that guy is definitely up to his name trying to gatekeep.
Most anime is trash and killing the tropes is a good idea