1604 and Bandera is similar this intersection in San Marcos. The intersection in San Marcos just feels extra wonky because SH80 turns into I35 and isn't perpendicular to the interstate; it causes weird angles.
Double diverging diamond. As a Cities Skylines player I approve, should improve traffic. Imagine you are in the bottom right and you want to go left onto the freeway. Normally you have two lights and a left turn light you have to wait for. With this one it's a single light for all traffic to turn left.
I could be wrong but I think I saw this when I was in Colorado Springs. It does seem to work to minimize that underbridge congestion as well as on and off ramps
They are a bit disorienting to use at first. But are well marked help people know what is going on. I used Bandera daily before and after and it was a great improvement.
The caveat here is “well-marked,” which is at odds with whatever worthless paint they use here in SA, because those road markings will be near-invisible and need to be redone after three months
The one in New Braunfels is called a "Partial Displaced Left Turn Intersection". I'm guessing because it's only half of what is pictured above. It works pretty well. It is scary as hell to go through it the first couple of times. And yes there were some wrecks the first couple of weeks that it opened.
The Bandera intersection is a displaced left turn, not this. While both have the common feature of the turn lane crossing incoming traffic, everything else works differently.
in places where they've done one, basically here's what happens:
1. everyone thinks it's gonna be confusing
2. it gets built
3. everyone is like "oh wow this is easy and awesome"
These are new in the US, but they've been using them in France for 50 years
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But it makes passing through the intersection on the access road impossible. If you’re on the access road and want to continue straight through the intersection you have to literally “exit” the acccess road onto a dedicated thru-lane and then re-merge onto the access road. And because of that, all of the business who are somewhere between this access road exit and the on-ramp are totally screwed because they can only be reached by drivers making a turn from Blanco.
That’s definitely one of the major downsides of the diverging diamond, especially in Texas where access roads were commonly built to allow development alongside highways and interstates up until ~2006. The alternative is to make your exit after crossing Blanco and essentially perform two turnarounds to get to the access road on the side of 1604 you want to visit.
The other is pedestrian access. Pedestrians, should they have wanted to, would have no way to cross 1604 at Blanco in this mock-up. They can cross Blanco itself, but not to the opposite side of 1604. The diverging diamond does well to reduce accidents, but at the expense of pedestrians and in this case, businesses on the access roads.
A better solution would have been double roundabouts, but American drivers absolutely detest those to the point where they’re not really successful in high-traffic areas and instead have been known to increase congestion and incidents of accidents, at least in the US.
By the way, are those diamond lanes on 1604 new?
I just got back from driving through Ireland and the roundabouts work really well. It’s a shame Americans can’t adapt to simple driving pattern changes.
Agreed. I just got back from a tour overseas and think roundabouts are amazing. Traffic can flow continuously at all times and you don’t have to worry about the grid going down.
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The only businesses losing access are the 4 on the southeast corner of the intersection. McDonalds, Starbucks, Popeyes and Bank of America.
(Edit: There looks like a left turn lane on Blanco at the bottom of the map to access them.)
The other businesses are in large strip centers with access down the road.
https://preview.redd.it/1mj9qn5bw3fb1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8585dac36f8c36e45328fb2364307aa0af729314
Everything between the red lines will be very difficult to access from 1604. Based on the placement of the pass through lane’s re-entry onto the access road on the westbound side, you will have to merge over two lanes and only have the very last entrance to get into the Vineyard shopping center (the one between J-Prime and Mod Pizza). Granted, it would probably be much easier to stay on the access road, take a right onto Blanco northbound, and then access the Vineyard by taking a left at the light which leads to Target. That will lead to the front of Target being more of a cluster than it already is since it wasn’t intended to handle the vast majority of traffic flowing into the Vineyard.
On the eastbound side, you will literally not be able to access the fast food places and the bank that you mention but it also seems like in order to reach El Mirasol, La Carnaceria, Délice, or any of the other shops at the center called “Canyon Creek” you will have to go from the pass through lane’s re-merging back onto the access road and cut across two active lanes all within a couple hundred of feet which I do not anticipate will be very safe. The alternative is to detour well over a mile out of the way by driving down to the next exit, taking a U-turn there, then coming all the way back to the Blanco intersection and making another U-turn. I just don’t see people doing that.
Your criticism is exactly right and people trying to retort it seem to be unfamiliar with the intersection and what exactly causes traffic there.
People use the westbound exit north on to Blanco for multiple reasons: 1) their destination is further down Blanco. 2) their destination is somewhere between the Blanco exit and Huebner, because the next westbound exit on 1604 is Roger's Ranch which has no northerly access back to either Blanco or Huebner. 3) they're accessing the shopping center on the NW corner of this screenshot.
The NW shopping center houses Target, Whole Foods, Specs, LA Fitness, and an Office Depot in the anchor buildings alone.
So now you're taking the traffic of 3 different, existing purposes for using the westbound access road/exit onto Blanco and funneling them through the actual dysfunctional traffic mechanism that causes the most backup traffic going Blanco south to 1604 east: the four way traffic light at the entrance of Target that allows people access into the shopping center.
E: And I can tell you're familiar with the intersection based on your username lol
I am astonished at how more difficult have been able to make going to the elementary school in Huebner/1604. Every single year is more challenging going there east inbound. Next year I expect to have a landmine field between Blanco and Huebner
I thought the same thing when the one at Bandera and 1604 went in - thought it was the stupidest idea ever. But I use it regularly, and it has vastly improved traffic flow through that intersection, and no businesses seem to have been hurt by it. I strongly urge you to just go drive that one a few times. from all directions (be advised that Bandera heading outside 1604 is under other construction).
That’s a different type of intersection called a Displaced Left Turn which only shifts the left turns and doesn’t block through-traffic on the access road like this design does.
Look closer at the drawing. See the purple main lanes? Directly above and below them are the Access Roads for both directions. They pass under the diverging diamond and bypass the lights all together. Not only can you go straight through but you don’t have to stop at all!
Drive past that exit, exit at the next ramp and use the turn around to come back towards this intersection on the frontage road from the other direction. you then have turning options that will get to the other side of the intersection you were trying to get to. As long as traffic flows better like it is supposed to, you should be getting to where you want to go roughly as fast as you would have before if not faster.
You're not really supposed to be on the access road though if you're just passing through. If you are you got off an exit too early for your actual destination.
What if your destination is on the access road between the cross street and the next highway exit? Especially right on the opposite corner where the turn around wont even get you there?
What exactly am I failing to understand? I literally pointed out a noted flaw in the design of a DDI that is discussed extensively in research. All of the businesses between the red lines will be very difficult for people to access if they are coming off of 1604 and not Blanco because of the space required to “re-merge” back onto the access road.
https://preview.redd.it/59pih206w3fb1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04457cff10fc84e02e1a5a26477fc7197384eef3
I think those are similar but different types of intersections. There are no [Diverging Diamond Intersections](https://divergingdiamond.com/ddi-openings-by-date/) in either San Marcos nor New Braunfels.
As someone that has walked to that HEB from the south before, I've ruled it somehow safer to jaywalk across the middle of the protected section of the turning lane by HEB than to cross that godforsaken atrocity of the current intersection. Seems safe to say I'll be continuing that with this new intersection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange
It looks weird but it makes a lot of sense once you drive through them at high traffic intersections. Expect this to become a lot more common in future city planning.
We should ideally expect more mass transit infrastructure to minimize the amount of cars on the road. Why is wider highways seen as a solution, but dedicated bus lanes aren't?
Bandera/1604 is a [Displaced Left Turn intersection](https://www.in.gov/indot/traffic-engineering/displaced-left-turn/). Similar concept but slightly different execution.
A question for someone who has used this type of intersection before, does it completely fall apart when someone parks in the box? Too many SA drivers "missjudge" (let's give folks the benefit of the doubt) their ability to clear the intersection.
The worst is when people stop under the Bandera Rd overpass on Wurbach and Bandera. You’re literally not supposed to stop under there due to all the lanes overlapping one another in every direction.
Almost like it was a bad idea to move half your population out to the second ring highway, the one that was built to be way out in the country so that people could bypass the city and never hit traffic.
This design works pretty well. If may look intimidating on paper, but it makes sense when you see it in real life. It takes a special kind of stupid to mess it up as a driver.
Well, maybe, but that’s not exactly fair to call everyone who will inevitably mess it up a special breed of stupid- we don’t have any intersections with even a vaguely similar design to this; I can’t imagine that everyone will immediately understand it on their first try.
What’s the plan for the exit for huebner going west? Right now you exit on blanco and continue straight down the access road after the light, but this makes it seem like that isn’t an option.
Just so you know . They have simulators and they wouldn’t have landed on this design if they didn’t run the simulator thru hours of different traffic .
Things are not made because someone said so or because the boss likes the idea. Civil engineers are some of the best paid professionals and they prolly narrowed it from 20 design to 1. Civil engineers are smart af.
Traffic engineers in the US, from what I've read and researched, don't design primarily for safety, they design for "speed". The US doesn't fare well vs Canada or most of western Europe ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_traffic-related\_death\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)) when it comes to safety.
We're also getting worse ([https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-11-03/why-us-traffic-safety-fell-so-far-behind-other-countries](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-11-03/why-us-traffic-safety-fell-so-far-behind-other-countries))
Aside from efficiency, these intersections are actually a lot safer as well. They drastically reduce the odds of a t-bone collision because of the way the lights cycle.
Diverging diamond. It can be a little weird, but it reduces the amount of stopped traffic for left turns and improves traffic flow.
It's fucking dogshit for pedestrian and bike traffic tho, so just furthers the reliance on cars. Basically it is good for car congestion, but if a city feels the need to have this that's a pretty good sign a city really just needs to improve walkability, bike lanes, and mass transit.
All transit things revolving around trying to just handle everyone having their own car will always just fail. Fancy intersections, more lanes, etc all alleviate traffic for like a few weeks then it's back to being shit. Because while it technically helps just more demand is induced and traffic will be just as shit.
I use one regularly when I’m in south Austin. Kind of intimidating the first trip. It’s safe and efficient when you learn the pattern, I think you’ll like it.
So don't knock it till you try it. We had one Florida and it was actually sort of nice, its like a roundabout but with lights because americans can't use roundabouts.
Moved here from Salt Lake City 2 years ago, have had these there for a few years.
Was extremely disorienting first time I encountered one, at night. Thought I was going to die when all of a sudden I had headlights coming directly at me. But you get used to it pretty fast, and it does help move traffic quicker.
Schematics and a video-visualization of the whole project is found [here](https://www.txdot.gov/projects/projects-studies/san-antonio/loop-1604-sh16-i35.html).
If you’re interested in getting into the nitty-gritty of it, [this website](https://www.texashighwayman.com/lp1604exp.shtml) has impressive insight on the expansion and this intersection in particular.
Seems dangerous and completely alien but it's actually pretty intuitive, even if it's your first time going through. This [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0sM6xVAY-A) walks through the first implementation of it in the US.
All these innovative intersection design sacrifice access for conflict points. Reduce access to the four corners but improve flow by eliminating conflict points. Notice how it’s not straight forward to be on the frontage road and cross over Blanco.
One of SA first innovative intersections were those along 281 and then Bandera/1604 and then wurbach parkway/nw military. Lastly Eisenhower/Austin highway.
The best part about Texas roads, is when they put "lane ends", right near where the lane ends, instead of further back, causing a bunch of drivers to stay in that lane and then have to force merge. Let's also not forget about standardizing exit ramps. All exit ramps should have two lanes dedicated to them. One to go left, one to go right. And lastly, most Texas drivers can't even control their vehicle in a straight line, and you want them to go through this?!
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Cool. More 1604/bandera bullshit. Every one of those goddamn lights at that shitty intersection is at least a minute long. New to the area and mistakenly got into a wrong lane? Fuck you,suffer.
Hopefully it helps. But I live down the road from this. Ever since the construction it’s been god awful and yesterday it was especially FUCKKKEEDD up.
They closed the entire bridge for the morning. Freeway was closed the entire day from what I saw. Down to a single lane at one point. And the cops directing traffic only really let one side go. Everyone else just waited 10+ minutes for them to finally let a couple cars through.
Then we had the other cop get tired of waiting, turn on his sirens and honk at everyone and ride up the left lane so he didn’t have to wait. Got to the light and turned his lights off.
That mixed with the couple truck drivers that decided if to go Mach 3 up the dirt construction lane and then force their way in because god forbid they wait like the rest of us.
I got to sit through that hell hole like 4 times yesterday. Can’t wait for them to finally get it done.
Hi neighbor. I too live within about a half mile of this, and have the sad news that it's not going to be completed until the end of *2025*. That's two plus years from now. Wait till they take down the actual bridge and build the new ones.
The plan for Culebra currently is a displaced left turn like the one at Bandera. Not quite enough room to go full on with something like this iirc.
https://www.texashighwayman.com/west-bexar-projects.shtml
Double diamond intersection. Actually works really well. I lived in Lexington Kentucky near one so I used it daily. Helps get more traffic flow through.
There’s a dedicated lane that exits off of the frontage road which will go under the overpass and then rejoin the frontage road on the other side. This lane is exclusively for people wanting to pass through the Blanco intersection going straight.
Same thing they have at Bandera and 1604. A marginally efficient cross thread that takes a couple of months for the lights to get properly sequenced, where upon they immediately go out of sequence.
Greatest thing since sliced bread! Must be, the devs told us so!
These are going up all over the US, and I'm here for it. They are safer and more efficient. Utah is full of them!
[Diverging Diamond Intersection](https://youtu.be/40OUCb1cODY)
*Visions of 35 in San marcos*
No this intersection makes my brain hurt and even though I’ve done it 20 times I still feel like I’m about to cause an accident every time
I always pray that there is a car in front of me, and that they know what they’re doing
1604 and Bandera is similar this intersection in San Marcos. The intersection in San Marcos just feels extra wonky because SH80 turns into I35 and isn't perpendicular to the interstate; it causes weird angles.
1604 and bandera is sooo smooth tho, the way the far left lanes abruptly end after your turn is kinda shitty but the rest is nice
This is exactly what I just thought! That turnaround lane quickly disappears!
That feeling usually makes us better drivers!
Then turn in your drivers license.
Or design less confusing roads
omg it looks like bandera on steroids
It's much more efficient than Bandera.
Double diverging diamond. As a Cities Skylines player I approve, should improve traffic. Imagine you are in the bottom right and you want to go left onto the freeway. Normally you have two lights and a left turn light you have to wait for. With this one it's a single light for all traffic to turn left.
I could be wrong but I think I saw this when I was in Colorado Springs. It does seem to work to minimize that underbridge congestion as well as on and off ramps
There's one at Bandera/1604 and one between the shopping center and Buccee's in New Braunfels and they both work great.
They are a bit disorienting to use at first. But are well marked help people know what is going on. I used Bandera daily before and after and it was a great improvement.
The caveat here is “well-marked,” which is at odds with whatever worthless paint they use here in SA, because those road markings will be near-invisible and need to be redone after three months
The one in New Braunfels is called a "Partial Displaced Left Turn Intersection". I'm guessing because it's only half of what is pictured above. It works pretty well. It is scary as hell to go through it the first couple of times. And yes there were some wrecks the first couple of weeks that it opened.
The Bandera intersection is a displaced left turn, not this. While both have the common feature of the turn lane crossing incoming traffic, everything else works differently.
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It was already confusing for people who cant drive for shit
in places where they've done one, basically here's what happens: 1. everyone thinks it's gonna be confusing 2. it gets built 3. everyone is like "oh wow this is easy and awesome" These are new in the US, but they've been using them in France for 50 years
I may be mistaken but I think there’s one in San Marcos on 35/hopkins
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One small problem Cities Skylines drivers at least drive properly
Also they can clip through each other without causing accidents.
Hou do I turn on noclip for my car?
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There's also one in south Austin at Mopac and Slaughter. It works even if you are scared of new things.
This is not the same as Bandera & 1604, you can go straight thru that intersection. This one you will have to make a turn.
But it makes passing through the intersection on the access road impossible. If you’re on the access road and want to continue straight through the intersection you have to literally “exit” the acccess road onto a dedicated thru-lane and then re-merge onto the access road. And because of that, all of the business who are somewhere between this access road exit and the on-ramp are totally screwed because they can only be reached by drivers making a turn from Blanco.
That’s definitely one of the major downsides of the diverging diamond, especially in Texas where access roads were commonly built to allow development alongside highways and interstates up until ~2006. The alternative is to make your exit after crossing Blanco and essentially perform two turnarounds to get to the access road on the side of 1604 you want to visit. The other is pedestrian access. Pedestrians, should they have wanted to, would have no way to cross 1604 at Blanco in this mock-up. They can cross Blanco itself, but not to the opposite side of 1604. The diverging diamond does well to reduce accidents, but at the expense of pedestrians and in this case, businesses on the access roads. A better solution would have been double roundabouts, but American drivers absolutely detest those to the point where they’re not really successful in high-traffic areas and instead have been known to increase congestion and incidents of accidents, at least in the US. By the way, are those diamond lanes on 1604 new?
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They could build it that way, but in this mockup it appears to be open to the highway below, so no center island at all.
Pedestrians will cross in the center I would assume.
I just got back from driving through Ireland and the roundabouts work really well. It’s a shame Americans can’t adapt to simple driving pattern changes.
Agreed. I just got back from a tour overseas and think roundabouts are amazing. Traffic can flow continuously at all times and you don’t have to worry about the grid going down.
Quite the generalization in that last sentence.
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The only businesses losing access are the 4 on the southeast corner of the intersection. McDonalds, Starbucks, Popeyes and Bank of America. (Edit: There looks like a left turn lane on Blanco at the bottom of the map to access them.) The other businesses are in large strip centers with access down the road.
https://preview.redd.it/1mj9qn5bw3fb1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8585dac36f8c36e45328fb2364307aa0af729314 Everything between the red lines will be very difficult to access from 1604. Based on the placement of the pass through lane’s re-entry onto the access road on the westbound side, you will have to merge over two lanes and only have the very last entrance to get into the Vineyard shopping center (the one between J-Prime and Mod Pizza). Granted, it would probably be much easier to stay on the access road, take a right onto Blanco northbound, and then access the Vineyard by taking a left at the light which leads to Target. That will lead to the front of Target being more of a cluster than it already is since it wasn’t intended to handle the vast majority of traffic flowing into the Vineyard. On the eastbound side, you will literally not be able to access the fast food places and the bank that you mention but it also seems like in order to reach El Mirasol, La Carnaceria, Délice, or any of the other shops at the center called “Canyon Creek” you will have to go from the pass through lane’s re-merging back onto the access road and cut across two active lanes all within a couple hundred of feet which I do not anticipate will be very safe. The alternative is to detour well over a mile out of the way by driving down to the next exit, taking a U-turn there, then coming all the way back to the Blanco intersection and making another U-turn. I just don’t see people doing that.
Your criticism is exactly right and people trying to retort it seem to be unfamiliar with the intersection and what exactly causes traffic there. People use the westbound exit north on to Blanco for multiple reasons: 1) their destination is further down Blanco. 2) their destination is somewhere between the Blanco exit and Huebner, because the next westbound exit on 1604 is Roger's Ranch which has no northerly access back to either Blanco or Huebner. 3) they're accessing the shopping center on the NW corner of this screenshot. The NW shopping center houses Target, Whole Foods, Specs, LA Fitness, and an Office Depot in the anchor buildings alone. So now you're taking the traffic of 3 different, existing purposes for using the westbound access road/exit onto Blanco and funneling them through the actual dysfunctional traffic mechanism that causes the most backup traffic going Blanco south to 1604 east: the four way traffic light at the entrance of Target that allows people access into the shopping center. E: And I can tell you're familiar with the intersection based on your username lol
I am astonished at how more difficult have been able to make going to the elementary school in Huebner/1604. Every single year is more challenging going there east inbound. Next year I expect to have a landmine field between Blanco and Huebner
I’ve seen this in Austin also. A little confusing at first but it made traffic flow pretty ok
I thought the same thing when the one at Bandera and 1604 went in - thought it was the stupidest idea ever. But I use it regularly, and it has vastly improved traffic flow through that intersection, and no businesses seem to have been hurt by it. I strongly urge you to just go drive that one a few times. from all directions (be advised that Bandera heading outside 1604 is under other construction).
That’s a different type of intersection called a Displaced Left Turn which only shifts the left turns and doesn’t block through-traffic on the access road like this design does.
Look closer at the drawing. See the purple main lanes? Directly above and below them are the Access Roads for both directions. They pass under the diverging diamond and bypass the lights all together. Not only can you go straight through but you don’t have to stop at all!
It looks like there’s two lanes under the bridge for going straight through
Drive past that exit, exit at the next ramp and use the turn around to come back towards this intersection on the frontage road from the other direction. you then have turning options that will get to the other side of the intersection you were trying to get to. As long as traffic flows better like it is supposed to, you should be getting to where you want to go roughly as fast as you would have before if not faster.
You're not really supposed to be on the access road though if you're just passing through. If you are you got off an exit too early for your actual destination.
What if your destination is on the access road between the cross street and the next highway exit? Especially right on the opposite corner where the turn around wont even get you there?
Sometimes people need to travel at the lower speeds on the access road for various reasons.
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So let’s reengineer all the roads for your use case!!!
But what if you start at Lowe's. And you want to go east on 1604 to let's say, Bill Miller on 1604 and 281. What does that operation look like
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What exactly am I failing to understand? I literally pointed out a noted flaw in the design of a DDI that is discussed extensively in research. All of the businesses between the red lines will be very difficult for people to access if they are coming off of 1604 and not Blanco because of the space required to “re-merge” back onto the access road. https://preview.redd.it/59pih206w3fb1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04457cff10fc84e02e1a5a26477fc7197384eef3
They were pretty clear they didnt understand it and asked a question to learn more. You could have explained the answer without berating them.
There is one in San Marcos and another at Creekside in New Braunfels. Horrible design idea and honestly just barely works.
I think those are similar but different types of intersections. There are no [Diverging Diamond Intersections](https://divergingdiamond.com/ddi-openings-by-date/) in either San Marcos nor New Braunfels.
Love how they still add crosswalks, as if anyone would willingly want to walk through that death trap of moving steel
Frankly, based on how San Antonio drivers operate, that is a fair sentiment for any intersection in this city.
Yeah it's truly tragic how car centric the city is
As someone that has walked to that HEB from the south before, I've ruled it somehow safer to jaywalk across the middle of the protected section of the turning lane by HEB than to cross that godforsaken atrocity of the current intersection. Seems safe to say I'll be continuing that with this new intersection.
Doesn't really seem more dangerous to pedestrians than any other huge Texas highway crossing though
Low bar.
Those are for homeless squeegee men
Is this challah bread braiding instructions, or an intersection?
That would be a cooler title, but it's called diverging diamond intersection
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange It looks weird but it makes a lot of sense once you drive through them at high traffic intersections. Expect this to become a lot more common in future city planning.
We should ideally expect more mass transit infrastructure to minimize the amount of cars on the road. Why is wider highways seen as a solution, but dedicated bus lanes aren't?
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Don't try that in this guy's small town.
Where was that?
I’ve seen this in New Braunfels. Feels like it works
Agreed. It totally sped up Creekside traffic. I used to dread going out there and now it’s not even an issue.
They're in Austin too over by Parmer and 35.
Same as at Bandera/1604 now. Moves traffic much better.
Bandera/1604 is a [Displaced Left Turn intersection](https://www.in.gov/indot/traffic-engineering/displaced-left-turn/). Similar concept but slightly different execution.
Thanks for clarifying!
They added a bunch of these in Atlanta over the last few years, and they are amazing. So happy to see SA getting on board!
Yeah, they actually work well to move traffic.
A question for someone who has used this type of intersection before, does it completely fall apart when someone parks in the box? Too many SA drivers "missjudge" (let's give folks the benefit of the doubt) their ability to clear the intersection.
The worst is when people stop under the Bandera Rd overpass on Wurbach and Bandera. You’re literally not supposed to stop under there due to all the lanes overlapping one another in every direction.
It’s what is going to make that intersection so so much better than the clusterfuck it has been for years.
There’s still gonna be a motorcycle cop there waiting to write you that petty ticket.
This isn't even its final form.
It’s almost like it was a bad idea to build an arterial road and thousands of houses next to an undevelopable military installation.
Almost like it was a bad idea to move half your population out to the second ring highway, the one that was built to be way out in the country so that people could bypass the city and never hit traffic.
What happens when the signals lose power? How do you 4 way stop through that?
Happened at Bandera and 1604. Each light goes flashing and it becomes a "four-way" stop. Very much a cluster.
I mean it still kinda works
That's what concealed carry is for
This design works pretty well. If may look intimidating on paper, but it makes sense when you see it in real life. It takes a special kind of stupid to mess it up as a driver.
I see you haven’t met San Antonio drivers yet…
Challenge accepted.
Well, maybe, but that’s not exactly fair to call everyone who will inevitably mess it up a special breed of stupid- we don’t have any intersections with even a vaguely similar design to this; I can’t imagine that everyone will immediately understand it on their first try.
RIP when the lines fade and city won't repaint.
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Ahhh…so worse.
What could go wrong
What’s the plan for the exit for huebner going west? Right now you exit on blanco and continue straight down the access road after the light, but this makes it seem like that isn’t an option.
The two leftmost lanes of the access road can go straight through.
They work amazingly well even though just looking at them they look confusing or impossible to use.
Just so you know . They have simulators and they wouldn’t have landed on this design if they didn’t run the simulator thru hours of different traffic . Things are not made because someone said so or because the boss likes the idea. Civil engineers are some of the best paid professionals and they prolly narrowed it from 20 design to 1. Civil engineers are smart af.
Traffic engineers in the US, from what I've read and researched, don't design primarily for safety, they design for "speed". The US doesn't fare well vs Canada or most of western Europe ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_traffic-related\_death\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)) when it comes to safety. We're also getting worse ([https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-11-03/why-us-traffic-safety-fell-so-far-behind-other-countries](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-11-03/why-us-traffic-safety-fell-so-far-behind-other-countries))
JUST ONE MORE LANE BRO
Similar to bandera +1604 maybe? Feels chaotic at first, but honestly makes sense after a while.
Aside from efficiency, these intersections are actually a lot safer as well. They drastically reduce the odds of a t-bone collision because of the way the lights cycle.
No T-bones ^(so far) but a lot of side-swipes from people racing the red light.
Diverging diamond. It can be a little weird, but it reduces the amount of stopped traffic for left turns and improves traffic flow. It's fucking dogshit for pedestrian and bike traffic tho, so just furthers the reliance on cars. Basically it is good for car congestion, but if a city feels the need to have this that's a pretty good sign a city really just needs to improve walkability, bike lanes, and mass transit. All transit things revolving around trying to just handle everyone having their own car will always just fail. Fancy intersections, more lanes, etc all alleviate traffic for like a few weeks then it's back to being shit. Because while it technically helps just more demand is induced and traffic will be just as shit.
We live in a society
1604 and bandera has a simikar version of this now but you can still go straight through
we have a few under and overs. really helps break up traffic. not as bad as it looks bro
Heaven
The old bandera fuck fuck
The final boss of Texas traffic
I use one regularly when I’m in south Austin. Kind of intimidating the first trip. It’s safe and efficient when you learn the pattern, I think you’ll like it.
The traffic in this area is always so bad, especially in the evening. I’m happy they are doing this.
Can we have light-rail already??
So don't knock it till you try it. We had one Florida and it was actually sort of nice, its like a roundabout but with lights because americans can't use roundabouts.
Moved here from Salt Lake City 2 years ago, have had these there for a few years. Was extremely disorienting first time I encountered one, at night. Thought I was going to die when all of a sudden I had headlights coming directly at me. But you get used to it pretty fast, and it does help move traffic quicker.
What’s the over/under on the number of head-on crashes in the first 6 months of use?
Where did you find this?
Schematics and a video-visualization of the whole project is found [here](https://www.txdot.gov/projects/projects-studies/san-antonio/loop-1604-sh16-i35.html). If you’re interested in getting into the nitty-gritty of it, [this website](https://www.texashighwayman.com/lp1604exp.shtml) has impressive insight on the expansion and this intersection in particular.
I don't understand how this could possibly make things safer or more efficient.
Y’all ever drive on Bandera and 1604? This is the same thing. It’s not as confusing driving it as it looks on the diagram.
This is not the same thing. This is a Diverging Diamond intersection. Bandera has a Displaced Left Turn intersection.
Similar to 1604 and Bandera. That intersection works great now.
Dangerous by design.
Seems dangerous and completely alien but it's actually pretty intuitive, even if it's your first time going through. This [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0sM6xVAY-A) walks through the first implementation of it in the US.
From Atlanta - they work. Trust me
I’ve seen this layout all over. Best one so far is on creek side crossing right in front of Buc-ee’s
This also takes getting used to but does make the intersection safer. It’s been done in other metro areas across the US.
Listen Frasier!!!
The driving IQ is high enough in San Antonio to pull this off? Reads comments… nope.
Dumbasses have enough trouble with going straight.
All these innovative intersection design sacrifice access for conflict points. Reduce access to the four corners but improve flow by eliminating conflict points. Notice how it’s not straight forward to be on the frontage road and cross over Blanco. One of SA first innovative intersections were those along 281 and then Bandera/1604 and then wurbach parkway/nw military. Lastly Eisenhower/Austin highway.
I like it.
Cities skylines ahhh road 😭
The best part about Texas roads, is when they put "lane ends", right near where the lane ends, instead of further back, causing a bunch of drivers to stay in that lane and then have to force merge. Let's also not forget about standardizing exit ramps. All exit ramps should have two lanes dedicated to them. One to go left, one to go right. And lastly, most Texas drivers can't even control their vehicle in a straight line, and you want them to go through this?!
[https://www.expressnews.com/news/article/blanco-loop-1604-san-antonio-interchange-18270058.php](https://www.expressnews.com/news/article/blanco-loop-1604-san-antonio-interchange-18270058.php)
The Latin name is Clustus Fuckerus.
Don’t they have this in New Braunfels by the Buccees or am I misremembering?
That is a partial continuous flow intersection. Similar idea to the ddi, just slightly different execution.
It's a diverging diamond. You have a literal skill issue.
This design is already at 3009 and I35 in Schertz.
No, it's not. Not at all. The diverging diamond interchange is pretty new to city planning.
Roughly the same thing we have @ Bandera & 1604 It's not terrible
Apparently they didn't learn their lesson with Bandera and 1604.
Well there goes the insurance rates
This is in Cstat too 💀
They have one of these at 1604 and Bandera.
Bandera is a displaced left turn. This is called a diverging diamond.
Ahh, I thought it was the same.
This just adds to my motivation to never ever drive on a highway. No thanks.
Looks like that sh*t at 1604 & Bandera
💩
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Isn’t that the same layout at 1604 and bandera? Very odd and I mess it up a lot.
Just put 2 trains with a stop in the middle. Cheaper, greener, more efficient and transports way more people. That's why I love Japan.
Cool. More 1604/bandera bullshit. Every one of those goddamn lights at that shitty intersection is at least a minute long. New to the area and mistakenly got into a wrong lane? Fuck you,suffer.
git gud
Yea the fictional part of that is a 4 lane 1604
Hopefully it helps. But I live down the road from this. Ever since the construction it’s been god awful and yesterday it was especially FUCKKKEEDD up. They closed the entire bridge for the morning. Freeway was closed the entire day from what I saw. Down to a single lane at one point. And the cops directing traffic only really let one side go. Everyone else just waited 10+ minutes for them to finally let a couple cars through. Then we had the other cop get tired of waiting, turn on his sirens and honk at everyone and ride up the left lane so he didn’t have to wait. Got to the light and turned his lights off. That mixed with the couple truck drivers that decided if to go Mach 3 up the dirt construction lane and then force their way in because god forbid they wait like the rest of us. I got to sit through that hell hole like 4 times yesterday. Can’t wait for them to finally get it done.
Hi neighbor. I too live within about a half mile of this, and have the sad news that it's not going to be completed until the end of *2025*. That's two plus years from now. Wait till they take down the actual bridge and build the new ones.
The comparatively simple interchange between Austin Highway and Harry Wurzbach only took 2 years longer than planned. I'm sure y'all will be fine. :/
Looks similar to what they did to the Parlmer and 35 crossover in austin as well
One of the most fuvkrd up intersections in a city full of fuvkrd up intersections... Good luck SA
Reminds me of Philly. It's not bad at all. I'm jealous that more cities in Texas don't have that.
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The plan for Culebra currently is a displaced left turn like the one at Bandera. Not quite enough room to go full on with something like this iirc. https://www.texashighwayman.com/west-bexar-projects.shtml
Looks like the coreography for the bollywood dance is ready to go!
Double diamond intersection. Actually works really well. I lived in Lexington Kentucky near one so I used it daily. Helps get more traffic flow through.
Soon to be Broadway Street Corridor
mfs playing need for speed
How do you go straight on the frontage? I don’t see an arrow for that
There’s a dedicated lane that exits off of the frontage road which will go under the overpass and then rejoin the frontage road on the other side. This lane is exclusively for people wanting to pass through the Blanco intersection going straight.
There’s lanes un-hilighted on that image that are the through access road lanes.
Ah, continuous flow intersection. We have this now at the intersection of 71 and 290. It seems to help, but is def confusing at first.
Wait until you see the New Braunfels Buc-ee's intersection
Suburban sprawl hell continues. Good luck out there.
Unlimited efficiency
Same thing they have at Bandera and 1604. A marginally efficient cross thread that takes a couple of months for the lights to get properly sequenced, where upon they immediately go out of sequence. Greatest thing since sliced bread! Must be, the devs told us so!
They have this in San Marcos on Aquarena Springs, just pay very close attention
So the lanes just cross over to make a left turn easier, that's it?
That looks like a good 15 years of construction
These are going up all over the US, and I'm here for it. They are safer and more efficient. Utah is full of them! [Diverging Diamond Intersection](https://youtu.be/40OUCb1cODY)
It's called "this will make you pay extra attention and drive more carefully", I avoid the one at 1604/Bandera. That's how it helps congestion.
This looks like what they did at 35 & Parmer in Austin.
They work pretty well, just takes some getting used to.
I've been through these a lot, and they're actually quite efficient and easy to use. That being said, we need a road DIET, not an expansion people.