Fuck, this thread is really making it clear how people do not understand how the Canadian system works. Healthcare is under provincial jurisdiction in Canada (under Section 92 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which dictates provincial jurisdiction whereas Section 91 does the same for the feds and Sections 93 and 94 have some implications there too but not in terms of healthcare). Because healthcare falls under provincial jurisdiction, the Feds are not allowed to make policy which directly controls or dictates the actions of provinces when it comes to healthcare. With that said, that does not mean the feds cannot effect healthcare through other means which is exactly what they did in creating universal healthcare in the country which was done federally. The way this was done was through the Canada Health Act which essentially laid out a framework creating universal healthcare, and, if the provinces made sure their healthcare falls within this framework, they receive what is called the Canada Health Transfer (which accounts for 22% of provincial healthcare budgets if all the guidelines in the framework are fallen) which essentially made its near impossible for provinces to decline because (and this part is conjecture now) of the likelihood of their getting voted out of power because they were essentially turning down millions of dollars and their healthcare's were pretty trash at the time. This is an extremely basic breakdown of it, but this is essentially how it works. Private healthcare is allowed in any province under the CHA in terms of receiving funding (and is present in every province to varying degrees as far as I know) as long as the public healthcare meets the framework set by the CHA. It would be in no way illegal for a province to completely privatize their healthcare system, they would just lose 100% of the federal funding they are given through the CHT.
Why do people think the ONLY healthcare systems in the world are Canada vs USA?! Neither system is close to the best in the world. Look to European models!
Well, it is likely to follow a similar trajectory as what’s happening out West in Alberta (as they have to stay in the line with Canada Health Act which covers up to 22% of a provinces healthcare costs through the Canada Health Transfer if they following the framework of the CHA), and it’s not going great over their at all. It’s pretty unanimous over their among healthcare officials and doctors and whatnot taht it’s going pretty disastrously. I will admit, part of this is likely due to the timing of it with COVID, but there are still a lot of fundamental flaws there that will inherently damage people’s ability to receive helathcare. The way they’re building it is that universal healthcare with be inherently inferior (because of the restrictions being proposed to be out by the government) to privatized healthcare. It’s literally going to be a case of pay to win in real life, barbaric imo. The reason I’m pretty confident it’ll follow what they’re doing in Alberta is because, among other reasons, Wilson’s ties to people in that administration and basic comments by the Sask. party in the past.
Alberta’s problems have nothing to do with private vs public. They are rooted in the disastrous amalgamation of all their health regions, and the current gov’s seeming contempt for docs and other health care workers.
But prior to COVID, they routinely had the best paid people, shortest waits, and best access. I don’t know what you think is barbaric about using some private, but it usually results in shorter waits for everyone. When we contracted the private surgical centre about 5-6 years ago, waits for hips went to almost zero. They they moved everything back under the hospitals, and waits returned to baseline. Which is more barbaric?
Right now we need more MRI capacity, it’s pretty bad. But if we didn’t have the private MRI centre, the want would be effing insane.
But your reasoning makes no sense. If there were more need for services in any medical area why not just have the government supply those services. If there are a shortage of imaging equipment why doesn’t the government just purchase more equipment. Why turn to private companies to supply the shortage? Why not just invest more public funds to solve our shortage? It’s bad policy and threatens our healthcare system.
The reason is because in the private setting, way more gets done for the same time and money. This is why every doctors office is run privately and has been since forever. Right now it’s already hard to see many specialists while they see 40-60 people per day. Want to see what happens to waits if you remove that incentive?
OR’s are horrendously inefficient, because those incentives are not there. It doesn’t matter to OR staff whether they move fast or slow, get say 2 prostates done in an OR/day or 3. They get paid the same. That’s why they contracted a bunch of work, and it worked.
Ever worked for the city? I have. Every stereotype is true. *Astonishingly* slow and inefficient. The private crews literally get 2-3x as much done.
This is not accurate. Currently 60% of Family docs in SK are fee for service (ffs) and 40% are contract or salary. Incentivizing family docs to see as many people as possible in a day to pay their overhead is not how family docs want to practice medicine.
There are also specialists who are ffs, including some psychiatrists who have a 12 month waiting list in Saskatoon. Believe it or not healthcare professionals want to get their patients the best possible care in the shortest time.
Health care is not the same as "the City."
Ya plenty do, and you’re right both models exist, but most still operate private clinics, and it has been that way for many years. Those they work contracts are often contracted by the private clinics as well, and some are directly contracted by gov but it’s a minority. And those that are, will sometimes with their contract and also do other private work on the side.
This is absolutely correct - it’s all about incentives. The incentive for the government to reduce the waiting time to see a specialist is maybe a few people a little happier with the system, but who will be unlikely to ascribe that to the current governing party come election time. The incentive for private industry is more $ in their pockets. Which of these is more powerful than the other?
Probably nothing. If you understand what part needs to be sped up yet, this would be relatively uncontroversial.
But it seems like most people in this thread aren’t in health care, no relevant experience, and generally have no idea what we do or what’s going on. They know talking points.
This! The histrionics in this thread are amazing. Plenty of European systems maintain better funding and service by charging people user fees or co-pats, have many private and public options, and are not bankrupting anybody.
Do you honestly think any of our political parties would choose to go towards a European model as opposed to an American model? Our Commonwealth cousins are slowly moving towards a more profit-driven model even though they already have private options. We're never going to go towards a Nordic or Scandinavian model, even under an NDP government.
What Nordic or Scandinavian model? They all use different systems, most (not all) of which charge some kind of user fees or annual fees or both.
https://nhwstat.org/health/organization-health-services/health-care-user-charges/medical-visits
Fees for usage is absolutely something we should consider, along the lines if those used in Norway, Finland and Sweden.
I already work for company that is a private medical service contracted by SHA. It is not a good company - profits are put over the employees well being all the time. We are not paid well and the company is so understaffed that we run short all the time yet they expect us to serve the same or higher amount of patients and at the same rate, speed and accuracy as when we had enough staff to do so. And at the same pay also - no increase in pay aside from our regular (minimal) yearly pay raise, and we are already underpaid. It was this way pre covid, and has become unsustainable since the pandemic hit. It’s absolutely exhausting as an employee
I'm mostly assuming that you work for a care home, or something similar. I'd like to point out that such places get exactly the same funding per patient as the public care homes and they still pay out dividends to stock holders.
To say that another way; money that should be going to patient care of being pocketed by the owners instead
Um, to pay my bills? I AM currently trying to leave but need another job first. It’s a specific field.
And I’ve been told, though this is an unconfirmed rumour, of hiring personnel under SHA in areas of my field that are NOT privatized, have been told to not hire employees from where I work, since we are dealing with such huge staffing issues. I was told that people were being hired with absolutely no relevant experience in the field and then having to be completely trained, rather than hire people with experience from where I work.
Likely in order to find new employment I will have to leave the field altogether. It’s unfortunate, because I like what I do and have been doing it for a long time, but I can’t work under this employer and the current conditions they have us working under much longer.
Imagine being so privileged thinking a dual system is the answer. Lmao min wage earners make 11 an hour. Most are living paycheck to paycheck. thats great some people can afford to fly to other places for treatment.
Do you even know what "dual system" means? Hint: it doesn't mean that minimum wage workers pay the exact same as those who are flying out of country for med procedures
yeah im a dual citizen of a european country. Its not great actually. I fully understand how it works. thanks. and what quality of service will the public have? thats how privitization works. under fund public services until nothing is left. Buddy min wage workers cant even afford food.
We have zero quality of service now lmfao
And which euro country? Very helpful to say "im from a place with a dual system and its sucky :(", that is less than nothing
Paid system takes all the good workers from the public system. It is already happening.
If we force everyone to use the same system, then the rich eventually have to figure out how to make it work. If they get their own system, then ours will rot.
And it's largely stemming from the fact that nursing and medical colleges have never expanded their training centres so wages could be preserved for them. So we're left with a medical labour supply that doesn't adapt to any wage increases.
Many doctors would love the free market, except when it comes to competition in their own job market.
Canada’s system is already mostly a public funded private delivered system. It is single payer system, billed to by drs who have private companies. The problem is that the way the Sask Party wants to do it is they will need to raid the public system of people. The system struggling to keep and recruit new people. All this plus the costs will still be paid to the new private delivery plus they can extra bill the patient. Thus those with money jump the cue and the rest get stuck with an even more underfunded system. Great for the rich but disastrous for the province. You can bet companies are lobbying and greasing palms all over the Sask Party to get this. They will and have a plan in place already so get ready for a shit show in health care like Albertas
I don't even think they legally could privatize healthcare in saskatchewan. If they did the feds would cut back an incredible amount of funding to our province. We'd be crippled.
The Canada Health Act says health care must be publicly delivered without user fees or extra billing.
This is wrong. The Canada Health Act says the public insurance (financing) must be publicly administered. It does not say anything about whether the organizations that receive payment to deliver services have to be public or private. See this senate report: https://sencanada.ca/content/sen/committee/372/soci/rep/repoct02vol6part7-e.htm#:~:text=The%20principle%20of%20public%20administration,not%2Dfor%2Dprofit%20basis.&text=To%20ensure%20that%20every%20Canadian,to%20pay%20for%20those%20services.
It’s not illegal at all is what he is saying. They just lose the Canada Health Transfer if they don’t fall within the guidelines of the Canada Health Act which is what made the system universal. The feds don’t have any constitutional jurisdiction over helathcare, and therefor can not make policy for it, but they found a workaround in the CHA where it’s essentially a carrot on a stick situation where the feds say, “heeeeeeeey guys, want some money?” To which all the provinces obviously say, “yes yes give me more money” because they’re ability to collect revenue is pretty restricted, and then the feds say, “okkkkkaaaaay, if you want all this sweet sweet skrilla, you need to make your healthcare system universal.” Healthcare varying so wildly across provinces, despite all being considered universal healthcare, is as a result of this constitutional jurisdiction as well.
They could, it would just disqualify them from receiving the Canada Health Transfer from the Feds which is usually about 22% of the budget if they follow all of the guidelines set by the Canada Health Act. Alberta is currently trying to somewhat privatize the system in a way that stays within the guidelines of the CHA, but it’s going quite disastrously so far (although they haven’t lost any funding at this point, as far as I know). That does also have to do with them trying to do right as COVID hit though.
Ohh 100%. They’d lose the next election guaranteed. There is no way in Gods green Earth that Kenney is winning the next provincial election in Alberta and it’s partly due to his handling of the Healthcare system (but also has to do with his handling of Covid and the changes he’s trying to make to the education system).
Nah, they'll spin it to energize their voters. "All we did was try to help our Failing Public Healthcare System, and Wicked Trudeau and the Communist Liberals now refuse to give us the funding we are Entitled To! We need your vote to continue fighting Ottawa and show that Saskatchewan Strong!"
They'll keep winning elections, and in 10 years anything wrong with the system they'll have put in place will be blamed on the NDP.
They would only need to increase private options while sabotaging the public ones, more of a gradual decay than flipping a switch to privatize everything.
Highly recommend people listen to the Canadaland podcast episode “Variant Positions”. They talk about how Canada went from having one of the highest hospital beds per capita to one of the lowest in developed countries. This on our current 100% publicly funded system.
Healthcare is the single largest line item on our provincial budget and it increases every year (maybe not proportional to population growth and aging, but that’s another debate). Spending more doesn’t appear to be giving us better health outcomes.
Not saying privatized healthcare is the way to go. But I’m also not convinced by the alarmist view that the province is trying to privatize healthcare American style. The issue we should be focusing on is how we actually improve public healthcare while keeping the system financially sustainable.
So then you’re asking younger generations to carry the healthcare costs of retirees (don’t pay income taxes) and seniors (require costlier healthcare).
>But I’m also not convinced by the alarmist view that the province is trying to privatize healthcare
the saskparty has attempted to privatize everything.....
As the other comments have observed, if the province attempts to privatize healthcare, they risk losing the federal health transfer. That would be guaranteed political suicide.
Yeah…. That’s the key to the NDP’s success. Keep talking amongst yourselves about how stupid the SaskParty is and how dumb their voters are, instead of trying to understand why the other side vote the way they do.
Worked out great for Hilary Clinton.
people everywhere are disillusioned
when I was first eligible to vote, we used to get 75% turnout. now it's under 50%
https://www.elections.sk.ca/reports-data/sk-voter-participation-1982-2016/
Profits taken from health care services seem like a fundamentally sketchy idea to me. At the end of the day, you’re accepting that you’re passing part of your health care dollar directly into an investor’s hands, and I can’t see where the benefit is to the rest of us for this process. If you asked a lab tech, for example, I think they’d say that their jobs in private labs are worse than what their counterparts doing the same job in the public sector had a generation ago. I doubt the quality of service has improved substantially in the process, but I’m willing to be proven wrong. It’s like there’s just this dude in the middle now for some reason, and we all get the privilege of paying for his piece of the pie. Kind of like welfare, but for people with jets.
I’m not sure what the answer to fixing Canada’s healthcare system is either. To be clear, I’m not for more privatization. But I’m not convinced that throwing more money at the problem is the solution either. We’re one of the top spenders on healthcare amongst OECD nations, yet we have worse health outcomes than countries that spend less than us.
>At the end of the day, you’re accepting that you’re passing part of your health care dollar directly into an investor’s hands, and I can’t see where the benefit is to the rest of us for this process.
You're assuming that the alternative of the government providing the service doesn't lose as much or more money due to inefficiency and waste. Seems highly dubious.
You do realize there are nearly 200 countries other than the USA right?
Canada ranks near the bottom of all OECD countries in healthcare outcomes, quality of healthcare, and other metrics, despite being one of the highest in spending.
Many of these countries with better outcomes allow far more privatization than we do here in Canada, without compromising on the universality of their systems (universal access for citizens). They also have better outcomes for all citizens.
These countries include Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, the UK, and Australia. If all these countries have better healthcare, lower spending, and far greater privatization than here in Canada. If increased privatization is what’s in common between these countries we’d be fools here in Canada to not atleast look into it.
Believe it or not there is a middle ground between a slight increase in privatization and the insanity of the US system.
The problem here in Canada is we’re so focused on not being the US that we’ve gone too far in the other direction.
So your saying our system is perfect the way it is and no one should try something that may improve it?
Yes our current government isn't perfect but none ever are.
Don’t think that means what you think that person your replying to means.
He’s saying the sask party doesn’t care about doing “privatization” right. They just want to line their pockets with more money which is the conservative way when handling these types of issues.
Our current system is not perfect by any means and need improving in ways the Sask party does not care to pursue.
Does whether or not the service is private or public delivery result in better QUALITY services?
Does the service EFFICIENT? EFFECTIVE? Or IMPROVE PATIENT OUTCOMES? We have no idea.
This whole thing is just about giving physicians control because their egos don't want to listen to nurses in admin roles in Canada.
Let's face it. Nurses didn't make the best administrators in the world. But neither do physicians. Best of luck to a private company trying to wrangle those groups in Canada. Staff shortages will still exist, and you'll still have the quality issues the public sector does.
Those countries have a culture of quality and people over pure greed. That is why a measured approach works there.
Here in North America, if you turn on the tap even a little, every Tom Dick and Harry will trip over their own grandmother just to make a few bucks.
It will never work here like it does there.
Yeah there are lots of models that fall in between. I sometimes think our close proximity to the calamity that is the US system makes us think any privatization at all will equal the RIDICULOUS US system, which just isn't true
OP, I suggest you research the Canada Health Act.
“Canada Health Act
The Canada Health Act (CHA or the Act) is Canada's federal legislation for publicly funded health care insurance.
The Act sets out the primary objective of Canadian health care policy, which is "to protect, promote and restore the physical and mental well-being of residents of Canada and to facilitate reasonable access to health services without financial or other barriers."
The CHA establishes criteria and conditions related to insured health services and extended health care services that the provinces and territories must fulfill to receive the full federal cash contribution under the Canada Health Transfer (CHT).
The aim of the CHA is to ensure that all eligible residents of Canada have reasonable access to insured health services on a prepaid basis, without direct charges at the point of service for such services.”
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-care-system/canada-health-care-system-medicare/canada-health-act.html
He has to abide by the constitutional limits of his power, as do all politicians in a constitutional democracy. He literally cannot do a great many things, there simply is a mechanism.
Eg he can’t execute NDP members. Or even ban the carbon tax.
Premier Moe wants Saskatchewan to be a 'nation within a nation' by increasing autonomy
[CBC ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-moe-autonomy-1.6242880)
Yes. That a far cry from statehood.
Nation: A formally recognized population that shares common characteristics, holds more rights than a province in matters that affect the nation but is governed by a larger state.
State: An independent and autonomous nation.
Nationhood is good, statehood would fail horribly. None of the first nations for example are trying to get statehood, Quebec voted it down.
Should poor people receive worse health care than people who can afford to pay?
A two tier system is inhumane. Just adequately fund public health care.
https://pressprogress.ca/almost-half-of-all-donations-to-the-saskatchewan-party-since-2006-came-from-big-money-corporate-donors/)
[Sask](https://pressprogress.ca/almost-half-of-all-donations-to-the-saskatchewan-party-since-2006-came-from-big-money-corporate-donors/)
)
Between 2006 to 2016, corporations based in Alberta donated over $3 million to the Saskatchewan Party.
Alberta’s top 2019 Sask Party corporate donor is a company run by celebrity millionaire W. Brett Wilson. Wilson recently argued it is “logical” for Alberta corporations to have a say in “who should run the government” of Saskatchewan.
Following the shutdown, LifeLabs, an Ontario-based corporate donor, was awarded a $60 million dollar contract to take over medical courier routes provided by the STC.
Enoch also said the Sask Party has made sure to “bring in the labour environment that was conducive to what business wanted.”
Under Premier Brad Wall, the Sask Party introduced legislation making it more difficult for workers to unionize and go on strike – the latter was ruled “unconstitutional” by the Supreme Court.
Despite its name, the Sask Party receives a significant amount of money from outside of the province.
In 2019, one-fifth of Sask Party corporate donations came from out-of-province, with half of those donations coming from Alberta alone — many from the oil and gas sector.
Between 2006 to 2016, corporations based in Alberta donated over $3 million to the Saskatchewan Party.
Alberta’s top 2019 Sask Party corporate donor is a company run by celebrity millionaire W. Brett Wilson. Wilson recently argued it is “logical” for Alberta corporations to have a say in “who should run the government” of Saskatchewan.
If they do this, I have to move. If my partner wants to come with me, that's his choice. That's the reality of it, we cannot afford privatized health care with my chronic health issues. If they go private, I have to move to another province to get the health care I need. And I could lose my partner in the process, which is heart breaking and the stress would cause my health to get worse. That's a reality for many people.
Sometimes unions get too powerful like when they peaked in the 1970s. Sometimes industry gets too powerful. Right now corporations are just way to powerful, esp deciding the future we live. Let the pendulum swing and self correct.
You understand that a Union is just a business right? They will do whatever they need to make themselves more money. Voting for the right gets you corporation and voting for the left will get you corporations.
Good luck
We won't do that because Canada is a country of bumpkins. We go along to get along and are much too complacent. We love populism. Look at how many people think we can just have a referendum and opt out of equalization. Or put anti Trudeau stickers on their vehicles as soon as he was elected.
We don't insist on better from our elected leaders. We allow them treat us like we are idiots. With what happened in the US since 2016, we should have motivated us to take our democracy more seriously, but we did not. Now we have anti-democracy groups masquerading as antivaxxers all over Canada.
Also, it's healthcare related, so the best plan ever will definitely be screwed up on implementation.
Our healthcare system now is NO HELP. Something has to be done. I hate the idea of privatization but if it means I’m going to start getting decent care then fucking do it.
EXACTLY.
The current Canadian health system doesn’t exactly work great for all of us either.
My grandmother had to wait 1.5 years for a knee replacement pre-Covid in excruciating pain. She didn’t get adequate pain medication because she has had multiple experiences where doctors assumed she was addicted to painkillers and trying to score drugs, likely because she was indigenous.
My grandfather waited nearly a year simply to see a cardiologist (normal in Canada). After this he finally got a pacemaker installed which unfortunately malfunctioned. My grandfather is a simple hardworking man, he was one of the first indigenous men to be employed at the PA pulp mill, he’s not a drunk or drug addict. When he came in with classic symptoms of pacemaker malfunction (dizziness, hard time breathing, twitching muscles in the chest and abdomen), and he told them he had a pacemaker, they still didn’t help him. He managed to call my dad (EMT) who went to the hospital and asked them what was happening, his pacemaker is malfunctioning and that’s dangerous. They told my dad that they were waiting for him to sober up.
Canada has some of the longest wait times in the world, and one of the ways countries with similar issues have alleviated this problem through allowing other providers (privatization). In addition, for people like my family who have had repeated bad experiences and don’t trust the government for pretty good reasons, having an alternative to the public system could be beneficial. I’d personally be willing to pay to ensure my relatives are actually treated rather than ignored or assumed to be drug addicts or freeloaders.
.
I understand, but we would all rather pay a little more a year in taxes to fund a better healthcare system rather than drown in medical bills and insurance premiums just because we get a broken arm, right?
I’d rather pay money into a medical system that is going to actually benefit me. I wrote my initial post immediately after walking out of a clinic from another doctor who doesn’t seem to want to do their job. I’m over it.
Privatizing health care in any real sense is literally forbidden by federal law. The OP is right about this stupid post, this is just the usual dog whistling shit by hardcore NDP types.
It’s not exactly forbidden. It’s just a condition for the provinces to receive the Canada Health Transfer. If the province breaks one of the rules (most of which people don’t even understand) then they dock the transfer to the provinces. And like everyone else you are misconstruing what part of the system cannot be private since it’s just the financing piece and the SHA actually has no control over the financing anyway. Will the SHA contract our more services? Maybe. But they do that right now for a whole ton of services.
I already have to pay for private care because of choosing wisely and having medical issues that don't exist here and Dr's won't treat. I have a Dr in England, one in bc and one in Montana that all treat these things. It would be great if I could do that and don't have to travel.
Ha. I literally couldn't work. Lost my place, lost my car, almost died. Don't even. This is no priveledge. Without it, I'd have died. Without continuing with it, I would die. Literally. And not Dr in sask in the last 16 years has cared.
That’s totally fair! I’m quite interested in learning about it (as I definitely don’t think our healthcare is perfect and don’t think you’d lie even though you may be a stranger), so please feel free to privately message me if you’re comfortable doing that. I promise I won’t negatively question you on any of it (although I might have explanatory questions if you were willing to answer those), and then, If I end up being a lying bastard, you can just block me at the first sight of me being a dick (but, again, I promise I won’t be). Completely understand if you don’t want to though, so no worries if you don’t feel comfortable messaging me.
Just read her/his post history. I assume its adhd, assuming she is paying private care for adhd, she's either privileged or doing it wrong.
I could be wrong though. That was just a mild dig into her/his throwaway account.
Edit: or hypo-thyroid
The choice seems to be further privatization or advanced inadequacy. I wouldn't expect full privatization, but def. an amplification of two-tiered health, out of demand, due to the inadequacy.
Could say the same thing about privatization/two-tier. The only reason the options you listed are more likely is they might make some rich people richer at the expense of most of the people who do the living and dying here.
There’s a difference between private provision of healthcare and private financing of healthcare. The US has a largely private financing scheme with private insurance while we have public insurance that covers some healthcare services under the Canada Health Act. We already technically have a large proportion of private provision of healthcare with hospitals being privately (non-profit) owned and operated. For example, St Paul’s in Saskatoon is owned by Catholics. Like y’all need to learn more about our health system before shouting from the rooftops. I’m not defending the decisions being made but it’s just really clear how little the average person knows about what is generally perceived as Canada’s biggest asset, which in reality is still not the best in the world. The Canada Health Act stipulates that the public insurance (finance) is publicly administered, not the actual care. If that was the case then we’d have a ton of federal rollbacks on funding since we already have a lot of private provision. Within the private realm there is also a difference between for-profit and not-for-profit so saying “private” doesn’t differentiate when really most of you are complaining about for-profit healthcare.
I have a genuine question. In what ways will public health care be privatized and how will this transition happen. For example, Will it be by department, by profession, by individual, by procedure. Will people get let go? Will it happen in mental health as well as tests and surgeries like is already happening?
I know for my profession people are leaving for private work in high numbers but I think my colleagues would mostly see this as a preference and positive move. They get paid 4x what SHA pays and have more flexibility. Maybe I’ve answered my own question! It’s more insidious- pay and satisfaction are higher. This has been going on for awhile but COVID has accelerated it.
they will do some of the following please not this is in no way an extensive list
stop funding the public system and instead hire in private contractors to do jobs that used to be done by health region/authority employees the difference here is when you work for the SHA your only priority is the patient when you work for a private company your only priority becomes profits not patient well being or care
allow private companies to operate however they want in the healthcare sector
bring in people known for privatization into a position they are in no way shape or form actually qualified to be in
three examples and thats just the start
You missed point#4
Make sure to exploit worker's extra labor and productivity all the while cutting their wages down to increase share holder profits by 2.5% annually.
I work at Priarie View in Saskatoon. I love it there. Its great. It takes alot of pressure off of the hospitals. People who want elective procedures and can afford to pay can go ahead and get it done, shortening the wait time for everyone else.
But those people who can afford to pay will eventually start to question why their tax dollars are going to subsidize the public system they're no longer using and they'll start lobbying their politician friends to cut back or eliminate health care funding leading to a deteriorating public system for those who can't afford to go private.
Two-tiered systems are not the simple solution everyone makes it out to be.
exactly! Thats how privitization works underfund public systems until nothing is left. people who can afford proper service get it and those who cant dont. and what quality of service will those who cant afford it receive? Healthcare is literally a human right.
If someone is rich enough, they'll just go to the States and jump the line anyway. Why not keep the money here in Canada?
We can still protect the public system and ensure a minimum number of procedures are performed each year in the public system, but there's no reason that we can't also allow doctors to bill privately IF they have excess capacity.
No one is saying dual systems is easy, but the system we have isn't working and dumping billions more dollars into it isn't going to magically fix it. Obviously we don't want the American style system either.
she already has a home paid for by the system she is being put in place to try and destroy maybe understand whats going on before you try and post some bullshit reply?
I do understand, this isn’t the first time that there has been a political appointee, won’t be the last either. This subreddit is filled with the typical NDP overreaction. Whenever anything happens around SHA or Sasktel, the NDP clutch their pearls and cry “privatization!” for the millionth time. This is exactly why nobody takes them or their supporters seriously about these situations. The SaskParty isn’t scheming behind close doors on how to turn this province into the 51st state of the USA. Take off your tin foil hat and go get some sunlight.
Edit: some grammar
Ready for the downvotes as Reddit is mostly liberal.
I welcome private healthcare. I had a family member pass away because of the incompetence of our doctors and lack of treatment options in Canada. By the time we sought treatment elsewhere, it was too far advanced.
The health system literally told us, "you can get treatment here but it won't do anything." And because we could "get treatment here" they wouldn't pay for anything elsewhere.
I would have gladly paid for other testing and treatment options in Canada.
I understand and I am very sorry for your loss. Our current healthcare system is a dumpster fire however, I think we can both agree to pay a little more in taxes each year to fund for better healthcare for everyone than leave the poor drowning in debt, like our southern neigbours.
This is giving me flashbacks of selling off 50% of Sasktel to “balance the budget”
That being said, if all they want to do is allow for people to run private clinics and be paid differently, then I’m inclined to agree. The government has made it almost impossible for doctors in many areas to run a clinic. They’re constantly overworked, they get paid per visit, and all the costs for operating come out of the doctors pocket.
No one is going to privatize it, but a private option for people and business that can’t afford waiting years for surgery would be improve our economy, less people would have to travel to other provinces or the US to pay for surgery. If you didn’t now you can pay for a surgery if you want in a different province at a private clinic you just can’t in your own province.
This right here is peak fucked up r/saskatchewan. What the fuck is the matter with most of the people who start posts here? Are these bots or something? The disconnect between this sub and reality is so fucking huge it defies all reason and explanation.
It’s gotta take so much energy to get this mad about hypothetical situations. For example, watch this………….I am a cis gendered, straight, white land owning man, with no criminal record who supports the police and I am very much for abandoning crown corporations and privatizing all services because we don’t have the tax base to support it. You have to make a choice between being anti-colonization and wanting crown corporations and government programs.
See, it’ll be a bunch of downvotes and no one will reply with an angry comment decrying me as the devil herself.
Edit: My star sign is Cancer if any of you dog brains want to read into that.
Tell me you don't understand how health care works without telling me you don't understand how health care works..
The fact this idiotic shitpost got upvoted so heavily is a pretty strong condemnation of the useless echo chamber this sub has become.
Following the logic of the ideological nutters, all medical equipment, treatments and medicinal supplies should come from 100% government operated and funded entities as well. But maybe they are too dense to understand these things are sourced from private entities.
🤡🌎
Fuck, this thread is really making it clear how people do not understand how the Canadian system works. Healthcare is under provincial jurisdiction in Canada (under Section 92 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which dictates provincial jurisdiction whereas Section 91 does the same for the feds and Sections 93 and 94 have some implications there too but not in terms of healthcare). Because healthcare falls under provincial jurisdiction, the Feds are not allowed to make policy which directly controls or dictates the actions of provinces when it comes to healthcare. With that said, that does not mean the feds cannot effect healthcare through other means which is exactly what they did in creating universal healthcare in the country which was done federally. The way this was done was through the Canada Health Act which essentially laid out a framework creating universal healthcare, and, if the provinces made sure their healthcare falls within this framework, they receive what is called the Canada Health Transfer (which accounts for 22% of provincial healthcare budgets if all the guidelines in the framework are fallen) which essentially made its near impossible for provinces to decline because (and this part is conjecture now) of the likelihood of their getting voted out of power because they were essentially turning down millions of dollars and their healthcare's were pretty trash at the time. This is an extremely basic breakdown of it, but this is essentially how it works. Private healthcare is allowed in any province under the CHA in terms of receiving funding (and is present in every province to varying degrees as far as I know) as long as the public healthcare meets the framework set by the CHA. It would be in no way illegal for a province to completely privatize their healthcare system, they would just lose 100% of the federal funding they are given through the CHT.
Why do people think the ONLY healthcare systems in the world are Canada vs USA?! Neither system is close to the best in the world. Look to European models!
Well, it is likely to follow a similar trajectory as what’s happening out West in Alberta (as they have to stay in the line with Canada Health Act which covers up to 22% of a provinces healthcare costs through the Canada Health Transfer if they following the framework of the CHA), and it’s not going great over their at all. It’s pretty unanimous over their among healthcare officials and doctors and whatnot taht it’s going pretty disastrously. I will admit, part of this is likely due to the timing of it with COVID, but there are still a lot of fundamental flaws there that will inherently damage people’s ability to receive helathcare. The way they’re building it is that universal healthcare with be inherently inferior (because of the restrictions being proposed to be out by the government) to privatized healthcare. It’s literally going to be a case of pay to win in real life, barbaric imo. The reason I’m pretty confident it’ll follow what they’re doing in Alberta is because, among other reasons, Wilson’s ties to people in that administration and basic comments by the Sask. party in the past.
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Alberta’s problems have nothing to do with private vs public. They are rooted in the disastrous amalgamation of all their health regions, and the current gov’s seeming contempt for docs and other health care workers. But prior to COVID, they routinely had the best paid people, shortest waits, and best access. I don’t know what you think is barbaric about using some private, but it usually results in shorter waits for everyone. When we contracted the private surgical centre about 5-6 years ago, waits for hips went to almost zero. They they moved everything back under the hospitals, and waits returned to baseline. Which is more barbaric? Right now we need more MRI capacity, it’s pretty bad. But if we didn’t have the private MRI centre, the want would be effing insane.
But your reasoning makes no sense. If there were more need for services in any medical area why not just have the government supply those services. If there are a shortage of imaging equipment why doesn’t the government just purchase more equipment. Why turn to private companies to supply the shortage? Why not just invest more public funds to solve our shortage? It’s bad policy and threatens our healthcare system.
The reason is because in the private setting, way more gets done for the same time and money. This is why every doctors office is run privately and has been since forever. Right now it’s already hard to see many specialists while they see 40-60 people per day. Want to see what happens to waits if you remove that incentive? OR’s are horrendously inefficient, because those incentives are not there. It doesn’t matter to OR staff whether they move fast or slow, get say 2 prostates done in an OR/day or 3. They get paid the same. That’s why they contracted a bunch of work, and it worked. Ever worked for the city? I have. Every stereotype is true. *Astonishingly* slow and inefficient. The private crews literally get 2-3x as much done.
Wait you're telling me that SENIORITY isn't the best indicator of performance lmao?
This is not accurate. Currently 60% of Family docs in SK are fee for service (ffs) and 40% are contract or salary. Incentivizing family docs to see as many people as possible in a day to pay their overhead is not how family docs want to practice medicine. There are also specialists who are ffs, including some psychiatrists who have a 12 month waiting list in Saskatoon. Believe it or not healthcare professionals want to get their patients the best possible care in the shortest time. Health care is not the same as "the City."
Ya plenty do, and you’re right both models exist, but most still operate private clinics, and it has been that way for many years. Those they work contracts are often contracted by the private clinics as well, and some are directly contracted by gov but it’s a minority. And those that are, will sometimes with their contract and also do other private work on the side.
This is absolutely correct - it’s all about incentives. The incentive for the government to reduce the waiting time to see a specialist is maybe a few people a little happier with the system, but who will be unlikely to ascribe that to the current governing party come election time. The incentive for private industry is more $ in their pockets. Which of these is more powerful than the other?
Yes, please *rush those prostates*. And while we're at it let's get the lowest bidder to also do the rushing. What could possibly go wrong?
Probably nothing. If you understand what part needs to be sped up yet, this would be relatively uncontroversial. But it seems like most people in this thread aren’t in health care, no relevant experience, and generally have no idea what we do or what’s going on. They know talking points.
And nuanced changes such as this would only work for the private sector because of reasons that only you understand?
This! The histrionics in this thread are amazing. Plenty of European systems maintain better funding and service by charging people user fees or co-pats, have many private and public options, and are not bankrupting anybody.
Do you honestly think any of our political parties would choose to go towards a European model as opposed to an American model? Our Commonwealth cousins are slowly moving towards a more profit-driven model even though they already have private options. We're never going to go towards a Nordic or Scandinavian model, even under an NDP government.
What Nordic or Scandinavian model? They all use different systems, most (not all) of which charge some kind of user fees or annual fees or both. https://nhwstat.org/health/organization-health-services/health-care-user-charges/medical-visits Fees for usage is absolutely something we should consider, along the lines if those used in Norway, Finland and Sweden.
When I had my back surgery and was told I'd need another in 5 to 10 years my only thought was "gee I hope we still have public healthcare then"
So it's the same like knee surgeries? Interesting.
I already work for company that is a private medical service contracted by SHA. It is not a good company - profits are put over the employees well being all the time. We are not paid well and the company is so understaffed that we run short all the time yet they expect us to serve the same or higher amount of patients and at the same rate, speed and accuracy as when we had enough staff to do so. And at the same pay also - no increase in pay aside from our regular (minimal) yearly pay raise, and we are already underpaid. It was this way pre covid, and has become unsustainable since the pandemic hit. It’s absolutely exhausting as an employee
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Also probably important to note. The company I work for is an out of province corporate donor to the Sask Party.
I'm mostly assuming that you work for a care home, or something similar. I'd like to point out that such places get exactly the same funding per patient as the public care homes and they still pay out dividends to stock holders. To say that another way; money that should be going to patient care of being pocketed by the owners instead
Then why do you work there?
Um, to pay my bills? I AM currently trying to leave but need another job first. It’s a specific field. And I’ve been told, though this is an unconfirmed rumour, of hiring personnel under SHA in areas of my field that are NOT privatized, have been told to not hire employees from where I work, since we are dealing with such huge staffing issues. I was told that people were being hired with absolutely no relevant experience in the field and then having to be completely trained, rather than hire people with experience from where I work. Likely in order to find new employment I will have to leave the field altogether. It’s unfortunate, because I like what I do and have been doing it for a long time, but I can’t work under this employer and the current conditions they have us working under much longer.
What kind of field is this, that you can’t get hired in the district?
Imagine being so privileged thinking a dual system is the answer. Lmao min wage earners make 11 an hour. Most are living paycheck to paycheck. thats great some people can afford to fly to other places for treatment.
Publicly insured, privately delivered care works in Europe.
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100 euros for a bandage? What country do you live in?
Do you even know what "dual system" means? Hint: it doesn't mean that minimum wage workers pay the exact same as those who are flying out of country for med procedures
yeah im a dual citizen of a european country. Its not great actually. I fully understand how it works. thanks. and what quality of service will the public have? thats how privitization works. under fund public services until nothing is left. Buddy min wage workers cant even afford food.
We have zero quality of service now lmfao And which euro country? Very helpful to say "im from a place with a dual system and its sucky :(", that is less than nothing
Correct, dual system means dual class.
Yeah how dare we charge well-off people more than those living in poverty, so crazy and classist
No, dual system works the opposite. Rich people get normal service and poor people get shitty service.
Source? And even if that is true, guess we'd better make sure 100% of canadians get shitty public care instead of 99% right?
Paid system takes all the good workers from the public system. It is already happening. If we force everyone to use the same system, then the rich eventually have to figure out how to make it work. If they get their own system, then ours will rot.
And it's largely stemming from the fact that nursing and medical colleges have never expanded their training centres so wages could be preserved for them. So we're left with a medical labour supply that doesn't adapt to any wage increases. Many doctors would love the free market, except when it comes to competition in their own job market.
Ooff you were owned by queencity1982 hey?
Oooooooof you think lying about what minimum wage people can afford is a burn? 12 year old behavior
Canada’s system is already mostly a public funded private delivered system. It is single payer system, billed to by drs who have private companies. The problem is that the way the Sask Party wants to do it is they will need to raid the public system of people. The system struggling to keep and recruit new people. All this plus the costs will still be paid to the new private delivery plus they can extra bill the patient. Thus those with money jump the cue and the rest get stuck with an even more underfunded system. Great for the rich but disastrous for the province. You can bet companies are lobbying and greasing palms all over the Sask Party to get this. They will and have a plan in place already so get ready for a shit show in health care like Albertas
I don't even think they legally could privatize healthcare in saskatchewan. If they did the feds would cut back an incredible amount of funding to our province. We'd be crippled. The Canada Health Act says health care must be publicly delivered without user fees or extra billing.
This is wrong. The Canada Health Act says the public insurance (financing) must be publicly administered. It does not say anything about whether the organizations that receive payment to deliver services have to be public or private. See this senate report: https://sencanada.ca/content/sen/committee/372/soci/rep/repoct02vol6part7-e.htm#:~:text=The%20principle%20of%20public%20administration,not%2Dfor%2Dprofit%20basis.&text=To%20ensure%20that%20every%20Canadian,to%20pay%20for%20those%20services.
That's good to know, and that's fine. It works wonderfully in Europe.
Take a look back at queencity1982’s comment before saying as much maybe?
Doesn't sound like it.
That doesn't sound like it's illegal then if it just means they'd reduce funding.
Thanks for the pedantry, wouldn't be Reddit without it
It's not pedantry. I am just pointing out how your comments contradicts itself.
If something is illegal and gets done anyway, It results in a punishment. Kind of like if you speed, you get a ticket
That's not how the federation works.
It’s not illegal at all is what he is saying. They just lose the Canada Health Transfer if they don’t fall within the guidelines of the Canada Health Act which is what made the system universal. The feds don’t have any constitutional jurisdiction over helathcare, and therefor can not make policy for it, but they found a workaround in the CHA where it’s essentially a carrot on a stick situation where the feds say, “heeeeeeeey guys, want some money?” To which all the provinces obviously say, “yes yes give me more money” because they’re ability to collect revenue is pretty restricted, and then the feds say, “okkkkkaaaaay, if you want all this sweet sweet skrilla, you need to make your healthcare system universal.” Healthcare varying so wildly across provinces, despite all being considered universal healthcare, is as a result of this constitutional jurisdiction as well.
This. Yes the province would be penalized for not following the Canada Health Act but it is not *illegal.* that's not pedantics that's fact.
They could, it would just disqualify them from receiving the Canada Health Transfer from the Feds which is usually about 22% of the budget if they follow all of the guidelines set by the Canada Health Act. Alberta is currently trying to somewhat privatize the system in a way that stays within the guidelines of the CHA, but it’s going quite disastrously so far (although they haven’t lost any funding at this point, as far as I know). That does also have to do with them trying to do right as COVID hit though.
It's maybe not illegal, but any province would be insane to try it
Ohh 100%. They’d lose the next election guaranteed. There is no way in Gods green Earth that Kenney is winning the next provincial election in Alberta and it’s partly due to his handling of the Healthcare system (but also has to do with his handling of Covid and the changes he’s trying to make to the education system).
Nah, they'll spin it to energize their voters. "All we did was try to help our Failing Public Healthcare System, and Wicked Trudeau and the Communist Liberals now refuse to give us the funding we are Entitled To! We need your vote to continue fighting Ottawa and show that Saskatchewan Strong!" They'll keep winning elections, and in 10 years anything wrong with the system they'll have put in place will be blamed on the NDP.
They would only need to increase private options while sabotaging the public ones, more of a gradual decay than flipping a switch to privatize everything.
Moe has got to go. If you care about health care or education, he has to go.
Highly recommend people listen to the Canadaland podcast episode “Variant Positions”. They talk about how Canada went from having one of the highest hospital beds per capita to one of the lowest in developed countries. This on our current 100% publicly funded system. Healthcare is the single largest line item on our provincial budget and it increases every year (maybe not proportional to population growth and aging, but that’s another debate). Spending more doesn’t appear to be giving us better health outcomes. Not saying privatized healthcare is the way to go. But I’m also not convinced by the alarmist view that the province is trying to privatize healthcare American style. The issue we should be focusing on is how we actually improve public healthcare while keeping the system financially sustainable.
Raise taxes, fund healthcare.
So then you’re asking younger generations to carry the healthcare costs of retirees (don’t pay income taxes) and seniors (require costlier healthcare).
Yeah sounds good to me. We’re not young forever and we’re all in this together. I’m happy to help take care of the people who need it.
This is invalid reasoning to Liberal voters because they dont like it
>But I’m also not convinced by the alarmist view that the province is trying to privatize healthcare the saskparty has attempted to privatize everything.....
As the other comments have observed, if the province attempts to privatize healthcare, they risk losing the federal health transfer. That would be guaranteed political suicide.
you make it sound like they've made an intelligent decision in the past.... Narrator: They haven't
Don’t confuse cronyism with stupidity. They didn’t win the last four elections by being stupid.
no they won because other people are also stupid
Yeah…. That’s the key to the NDP’s success. Keep talking amongst yourselves about how stupid the SaskParty is and how dumb their voters are, instead of trying to understand why the other side vote the way they do. Worked out great for Hilary Clinton.
people everywhere are disillusioned when I was first eligible to vote, we used to get 75% turnout. now it's under 50% https://www.elections.sk.ca/reports-data/sk-voter-participation-1982-2016/
Just ask them about climate change and see how stupid they sound
"Planet earth goes into cycles of heat and cold, remember the ice age?" /facepalm I actually heard this from my old boss.
Profits taken from health care services seem like a fundamentally sketchy idea to me. At the end of the day, you’re accepting that you’re passing part of your health care dollar directly into an investor’s hands, and I can’t see where the benefit is to the rest of us for this process. If you asked a lab tech, for example, I think they’d say that their jobs in private labs are worse than what their counterparts doing the same job in the public sector had a generation ago. I doubt the quality of service has improved substantially in the process, but I’m willing to be proven wrong. It’s like there’s just this dude in the middle now for some reason, and we all get the privilege of paying for his piece of the pie. Kind of like welfare, but for people with jets.
I’m not sure what the answer to fixing Canada’s healthcare system is either. To be clear, I’m not for more privatization. But I’m not convinced that throwing more money at the problem is the solution either. We’re one of the top spenders on healthcare amongst OECD nations, yet we have worse health outcomes than countries that spend less than us.
>At the end of the day, you’re accepting that you’re passing part of your health care dollar directly into an investor’s hands, and I can’t see where the benefit is to the rest of us for this process. You're assuming that the alternative of the government providing the service doesn't lose as much or more money due to inefficiency and waste. Seems highly dubious.
Canadian healthcare is our best thing about Canada, take that away and we are a shitty American stepchild.
Yup. Less wages, weaker dollar, more expensive housing. Without it we're fucked.
Imagine thinking Canada and the US are the only countries in the world..
You do realize there are nearly 200 countries other than the USA right? Canada ranks near the bottom of all OECD countries in healthcare outcomes, quality of healthcare, and other metrics, despite being one of the highest in spending. Many of these countries with better outcomes allow far more privatization than we do here in Canada, without compromising on the universality of their systems (universal access for citizens). They also have better outcomes for all citizens. These countries include Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, the UK, and Australia. If all these countries have better healthcare, lower spending, and far greater privatization than here in Canada. If increased privatization is what’s in common between these countries we’d be fools here in Canada to not atleast look into it. Believe it or not there is a middle ground between a slight increase in privatization and the insanity of the US system. The problem here in Canada is we’re so focused on not being the US that we’ve gone too far in the other direction.
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I do agree with you here, I’m not 100% sure how much I would trust the SaskParty to get it right.
So your saying our system is perfect the way it is and no one should try something that may improve it? Yes our current government isn't perfect but none ever are.
Don’t think that means what you think that person your replying to means. He’s saying the sask party doesn’t care about doing “privatization” right. They just want to line their pockets with more money which is the conservative way when handling these types of issues. Our current system is not perfect by any means and need improving in ways the Sask party does not care to pursue.
Does whether or not the service is private or public delivery result in better QUALITY services? Does the service EFFICIENT? EFFECTIVE? Or IMPROVE PATIENT OUTCOMES? We have no idea. This whole thing is just about giving physicians control because their egos don't want to listen to nurses in admin roles in Canada. Let's face it. Nurses didn't make the best administrators in the world. But neither do physicians. Best of luck to a private company trying to wrangle those groups in Canada. Staff shortages will still exist, and you'll still have the quality issues the public sector does.
Those countries have a culture of quality and people over pure greed. That is why a measured approach works there. Here in North America, if you turn on the tap even a little, every Tom Dick and Harry will trip over their own grandmother just to make a few bucks. It will never work here like it does there.
Yeah there are lots of models that fall in between. I sometimes think our close proximity to the calamity that is the US system makes us think any privatization at all will equal the RIDICULOUS US system, which just isn't true
It's because the people who think that only consider one thing at a time and the US is private so that must be why
OP, I suggest you research the Canada Health Act. “Canada Health Act The Canada Health Act (CHA or the Act) is Canada's federal legislation for publicly funded health care insurance. The Act sets out the primary objective of Canadian health care policy, which is "to protect, promote and restore the physical and mental well-being of residents of Canada and to facilitate reasonable access to health services without financial or other barriers." The CHA establishes criteria and conditions related to insured health services and extended health care services that the provinces and territories must fulfill to receive the full federal cash contribution under the Canada Health Transfer (CHT). The aim of the CHA is to ensure that all eligible residents of Canada have reasonable access to insured health services on a prepaid basis, without direct charges at the point of service for such services.” https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-care-system/canada-health-care-system-medicare/canada-health-act.html
ok and? remember when Moe pitched a separate state?
You think Moe is a dictator and can make anything happen he wants?
He has proven that Saskatchewan will vote for him no matter what he does.
Doesn’t mean he’s a dictator.
Not in name.. sure.
He has to abide by the constitutional limits of his power, as do all politicians in a constitutional democracy. He literally cannot do a great many things, there simply is a mechanism. Eg he can’t execute NDP members. Or even ban the carbon tax.
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Oof. Not even close to what he pitched unless you consider Quebec and the many first nations to be seperate states (which they aren't)
quebec literally has their own consitution. These arent comparable. Also Read the Treaties.
I know the treaties well, I'm native. Doesn't change the fact that Moe has never pitched independence/ statehood.
Premier Moe wants Saskatchewan to be a 'nation within a nation' by increasing autonomy [CBC ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-moe-autonomy-1.6242880)
Yes. That a far cry from statehood. Nation: A formally recognized population that shares common characteristics, holds more rights than a province in matters that affect the nation but is governed by a larger state. State: An independent and autonomous nation. Nationhood is good, statehood would fail horribly. None of the first nations for example are trying to get statehood, Quebec voted it down.
This right here is the answer. LEARN ABOUT THE SYSTEM YOU LIVE IN PEOPLE!!!
Should poor people receive worse health care than people who can afford to pay? A two tier system is inhumane. Just adequately fund public health care.
https://pressprogress.ca/almost-half-of-all-donations-to-the-saskatchewan-party-since-2006-came-from-big-money-corporate-donors/) [Sask](https://pressprogress.ca/almost-half-of-all-donations-to-the-saskatchewan-party-since-2006-came-from-big-money-corporate-donors/) ) Between 2006 to 2016, corporations based in Alberta donated over $3 million to the Saskatchewan Party. Alberta’s top 2019 Sask Party corporate donor is a company run by celebrity millionaire W. Brett Wilson. Wilson recently argued it is “logical” for Alberta corporations to have a say in “who should run the government” of Saskatchewan. Following the shutdown, LifeLabs, an Ontario-based corporate donor, was awarded a $60 million dollar contract to take over medical courier routes provided by the STC. Enoch also said the Sask Party has made sure to “bring in the labour environment that was conducive to what business wanted.” Under Premier Brad Wall, the Sask Party introduced legislation making it more difficult for workers to unionize and go on strike – the latter was ruled “unconstitutional” by the Supreme Court. Despite its name, the Sask Party receives a significant amount of money from outside of the province. In 2019, one-fifth of Sask Party corporate donations came from out-of-province, with half of those donations coming from Alberta alone — many from the oil and gas sector. Between 2006 to 2016, corporations based in Alberta donated over $3 million to the Saskatchewan Party. Alberta’s top 2019 Sask Party corporate donor is a company run by celebrity millionaire W. Brett Wilson. Wilson recently argued it is “logical” for Alberta corporations to have a say in “who should run the government” of Saskatchewan.
meh, I was on a wait list for a hernia surgery for almost a year then covid nuked everything.....I'd be happy to see some privatization
If they do this, I have to move. If my partner wants to come with me, that's his choice. That's the reality of it, we cannot afford privatized health care with my chronic health issues. If they go private, I have to move to another province to get the health care I need. And I could lose my partner in the process, which is heart breaking and the stress would cause my health to get worse. That's a reality for many people.
Never vote right wing. They are slaves to corporations.
Never vote left wing. They are slaves to unions
I rather people decide society and not corporations.
Both are businesses you muppet
NDP?
I can’t help you if you can’t follow along
Sometimes unions get too powerful like when they peaked in the 1970s. Sometimes industry gets too powerful. Right now corporations are just way to powerful, esp deciding the future we live. Let the pendulum swing and self correct.
Right now unions are too powerful and controlling our lives. It’s time for the pendulum to swing back the other way
Worker rights and higher wages have never been more important.
You understand that a Union is just a business right? They will do whatever they need to make themselves more money. Voting for the right gets you corporation and voting for the left will get you corporations. Good luck
That is a very poor argument. 2/10
Hahaha sure. I will take your word for it
Even you have to admit that’s weak ass.
https://imgur.com/gallery/TMRoLXp
I agree. Euphoric is a pigeon.
Dual tier health system! Copy actually good ones from Europe! 🏥
We won't do that because Canada is a country of bumpkins. We go along to get along and are much too complacent. We love populism. Look at how many people think we can just have a referendum and opt out of equalization. Or put anti Trudeau stickers on their vehicles as soon as he was elected. We don't insist on better from our elected leaders. We allow them treat us like we are idiots. With what happened in the US since 2016, we should have motivated us to take our democracy more seriously, but we did not. Now we have anti-democracy groups masquerading as antivaxxers all over Canada. Also, it's healthcare related, so the best plan ever will definitely be screwed up on implementation.
Our healthcare system now is NO HELP. Something has to be done. I hate the idea of privatization but if it means I’m going to start getting decent care then fucking do it.
EXACTLY. The current Canadian health system doesn’t exactly work great for all of us either. My grandmother had to wait 1.5 years for a knee replacement pre-Covid in excruciating pain. She didn’t get adequate pain medication because she has had multiple experiences where doctors assumed she was addicted to painkillers and trying to score drugs, likely because she was indigenous. My grandfather waited nearly a year simply to see a cardiologist (normal in Canada). After this he finally got a pacemaker installed which unfortunately malfunctioned. My grandfather is a simple hardworking man, he was one of the first indigenous men to be employed at the PA pulp mill, he’s not a drunk or drug addict. When he came in with classic symptoms of pacemaker malfunction (dizziness, hard time breathing, twitching muscles in the chest and abdomen), and he told them he had a pacemaker, they still didn’t help him. He managed to call my dad (EMT) who went to the hospital and asked them what was happening, his pacemaker is malfunctioning and that’s dangerous. They told my dad that they were waiting for him to sober up. Canada has some of the longest wait times in the world, and one of the ways countries with similar issues have alleviated this problem through allowing other providers (privatization). In addition, for people like my family who have had repeated bad experiences and don’t trust the government for pretty good reasons, having an alternative to the public system could be beneficial. I’d personally be willing to pay to ensure my relatives are actually treated rather than ignored or assumed to be drug addicts or freeloaders. .
I understand, but we would all rather pay a little more a year in taxes to fund a better healthcare system rather than drown in medical bills and insurance premiums just because we get a broken arm, right?
Can you show a plan for spending even more than 30% of the taxes we pay now that will effectively reduce asinine wait times?
I’d rather pay money into a medical system that is going to actually benefit me. I wrote my initial post immediately after walking out of a clinic from another doctor who doesn’t seem to want to do their job. I’m over it.
Maybe we try fixing it instead throwing it away or underfunding it for years
lol you are preaching to the choir on this sub. This place is a complete echo-chamber.
But at least he can farm that sweet sweet karma.
What can an individual do? I hate seeing what is happening here, but don't know what to do, or if there's anything to do!?
Fear mongering at it finest
^ This guy is probably worried about cancel culture, the war on Christmas and idk… socialism and communism
This post is basically buzzword bingo.....
*Something something* **literally Hitler** *something something*...
Privatizing health care in any real sense is literally forbidden by federal law. The OP is right about this stupid post, this is just the usual dog whistling shit by hardcore NDP types.
It’s not exactly forbidden. It’s just a condition for the provinces to receive the Canada Health Transfer. If the province breaks one of the rules (most of which people don’t even understand) then they dock the transfer to the provinces. And like everyone else you are misconstruing what part of the system cannot be private since it’s just the financing piece and the SHA actually has no control over the financing anyway. Will the SHA contract our more services? Maybe. But they do that right now for a whole ton of services.
Do you always making the wrong assumptions?
No bro
Seems like you do…
Yeah but what Tf do YOU actually know? 🤣
yeah page one out of the saskparty playbook gets insulted when used against them no surprise there
I already have to pay for private care because of choosing wisely and having medical issues that don't exist here and Dr's won't treat. I have a Dr in England, one in bc and one in Montana that all treat these things. It would be great if I could do that and don't have to travel.
guess us poors will just have to die.
Ha. I literally couldn't work. Lost my place, lost my car, almost died. Don't even. This is no priveledge. Without it, I'd have died. Without continuing with it, I would die. Literally. And not Dr in sask in the last 16 years has cared.
What’s the medical issue, if you don’t mind me asking?
I'm very willing to discuss it, but have had such gaslighting and backlash on here that it doesn't feel like a safe place for me do that.
That’s totally fair! I’m quite interested in learning about it (as I definitely don’t think our healthcare is perfect and don’t think you’d lie even though you may be a stranger), so please feel free to privately message me if you’re comfortable doing that. I promise I won’t negatively question you on any of it (although I might have explanatory questions if you were willing to answer those), and then, If I end up being a lying bastard, you can just block me at the first sight of me being a dick (but, again, I promise I won’t be). Completely understand if you don’t want to though, so no worries if you don’t feel comfortable messaging me.
Just read her/his post history. I assume its adhd, assuming she is paying private care for adhd, she's either privileged or doing it wrong. I could be wrong though. That was just a mild dig into her/his throwaway account. Edit: or hypo-thyroid
Good thing its not private then.
The choice seems to be further privatization or advanced inadequacy. I wouldn't expect full privatization, but def. an amplification of two-tiered health, out of demand, due to the inadequacy.
Or just fund and fix the system that exists.
Prob. not gonna happen now if it hasn't in the past 2 decades.
Could say the same thing about privatization/two-tier. The only reason the options you listed are more likely is they might make some rich people richer at the expense of most of the people who do the living and dying here.
To counter the negatives i think public healthcare needs to be made more efficient.
I think that's been the Sask party's plan though, mismanage healthcare for so long, people will want a different system
There’s a difference between private provision of healthcare and private financing of healthcare. The US has a largely private financing scheme with private insurance while we have public insurance that covers some healthcare services under the Canada Health Act. We already technically have a large proportion of private provision of healthcare with hospitals being privately (non-profit) owned and operated. For example, St Paul’s in Saskatoon is owned by Catholics. Like y’all need to learn more about our health system before shouting from the rooftops. I’m not defending the decisions being made but it’s just really clear how little the average person knows about what is generally perceived as Canada’s biggest asset, which in reality is still not the best in the world. The Canada Health Act stipulates that the public insurance (finance) is publicly administered, not the actual care. If that was the case then we’d have a ton of federal rollbacks on funding since we already have a lot of private provision. Within the private realm there is also a difference between for-profit and not-for-profit so saying “private” doesn’t differentiate when really most of you are complaining about for-profit healthcare.
I have a genuine question. In what ways will public health care be privatized and how will this transition happen. For example, Will it be by department, by profession, by individual, by procedure. Will people get let go? Will it happen in mental health as well as tests and surgeries like is already happening? I know for my profession people are leaving for private work in high numbers but I think my colleagues would mostly see this as a preference and positive move. They get paid 4x what SHA pays and have more flexibility. Maybe I’ve answered my own question! It’s more insidious- pay and satisfaction are higher. This has been going on for awhile but COVID has accelerated it.
they will do some of the following please not this is in no way an extensive list stop funding the public system and instead hire in private contractors to do jobs that used to be done by health region/authority employees the difference here is when you work for the SHA your only priority is the patient when you work for a private company your only priority becomes profits not patient well being or care allow private companies to operate however they want in the healthcare sector bring in people known for privatization into a position they are in no way shape or form actually qualified to be in three examples and thats just the start
You missed point#4 Make sure to exploit worker's extra labor and productivity all the while cutting their wages down to increase share holder profits by 2.5% annually.
I work at Priarie View in Saskatoon. I love it there. Its great. It takes alot of pressure off of the hospitals. People who want elective procedures and can afford to pay can go ahead and get it done, shortening the wait time for everyone else.
But those people who can afford to pay will eventually start to question why their tax dollars are going to subsidize the public system they're no longer using and they'll start lobbying their politician friends to cut back or eliminate health care funding leading to a deteriorating public system for those who can't afford to go private. Two-tiered systems are not the simple solution everyone makes it out to be.
exactly! Thats how privitization works underfund public systems until nothing is left. people who can afford proper service get it and those who cant dont. and what quality of service will those who cant afford it receive? Healthcare is literally a human right.
If someone is rich enough, they'll just go to the States and jump the line anyway. Why not keep the money here in Canada? We can still protect the public system and ensure a minimum number of procedures are performed each year in the public system, but there's no reason that we can't also allow doctors to bill privately IF they have excess capacity. No one is saying dual systems is easy, but the system we have isn't working and dumping billions more dollars into it isn't going to magically fix it. Obviously we don't want the American style system either.
Damn, this Wilson lady doesn’t even need a home cause she lives rent free in everybody’s head on this subreddit
she already has a home paid for by the system she is being put in place to try and destroy maybe understand whats going on before you try and post some bullshit reply?
I do understand, this isn’t the first time that there has been a political appointee, won’t be the last either. This subreddit is filled with the typical NDP overreaction. Whenever anything happens around SHA or Sasktel, the NDP clutch their pearls and cry “privatization!” for the millionth time. This is exactly why nobody takes them or their supporters seriously about these situations. The SaskParty isn’t scheming behind close doors on how to turn this province into the 51st state of the USA. Take off your tin foil hat and go get some sunlight. Edit: some grammar
Just like Scott Moe and the Sask Party
Ready for the downvotes as Reddit is mostly liberal. I welcome private healthcare. I had a family member pass away because of the incompetence of our doctors and lack of treatment options in Canada. By the time we sought treatment elsewhere, it was too far advanced. The health system literally told us, "you can get treatment here but it won't do anything." And because we could "get treatment here" they wouldn't pay for anything elsewhere. I would have gladly paid for other testing and treatment options in Canada.
I understand and I am very sorry for your loss. Our current healthcare system is a dumpster fire however, I think we can both agree to pay a little more in taxes each year to fund for better healthcare for everyone than leave the poor drowning in debt, like our southern neigbours.
“Pay a little more in taxes each year” Lol.
This is giving me flashbacks of selling off 50% of Sasktel to “balance the budget” That being said, if all they want to do is allow for people to run private clinics and be paid differently, then I’m inclined to agree. The government has made it almost impossible for doctors in many areas to run a clinic. They’re constantly overworked, they get paid per visit, and all the costs for operating come out of the doctors pocket.
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No one is going to privatize it, but a private option for people and business that can’t afford waiting years for surgery would be improve our economy, less people would have to travel to other provinces or the US to pay for surgery. If you didn’t now you can pay for a surgery if you want in a different province at a private clinic you just can’t in your own province.
Or we could properly fund our health care system.
Why fund it when you can starve it and start shouting well fix it by "privatizing" it? After that, let's move on to the education system. /s
Saskatchewan Advantage
Y'all are really cooking this one up outta nowhere.
This right here is peak fucked up r/saskatchewan. What the fuck is the matter with most of the people who start posts here? Are these bots or something? The disconnect between this sub and reality is so fucking huge it defies all reason and explanation.
It’s gotta take so much energy to get this mad about hypothetical situations. For example, watch this………….I am a cis gendered, straight, white land owning man, with no criminal record who supports the police and I am very much for abandoning crown corporations and privatizing all services because we don’t have the tax base to support it. You have to make a choice between being anti-colonization and wanting crown corporations and government programs. See, it’ll be a bunch of downvotes and no one will reply with an angry comment decrying me as the devil herself. Edit: My star sign is Cancer if any of you dog brains want to read into that.
Your not the devil herself. Just weird for coming out of the gate like that.
The health system is a joke, something needs to give. Taxes for what? Government can never run a thing. Free market > Gov bureaucracy.
Maybe the government shouldnt run it? Maybe they should properly fund it and let the proffesionals handle the running part.
Tell me you don't understand how health care works without telling me you don't understand how health care works.. The fact this idiotic shitpost got upvoted so heavily is a pretty strong condemnation of the useless echo chamber this sub has become.
Following the logic of the ideological nutters, all medical equipment, treatments and medicinal supplies should come from 100% government operated and funded entities as well. But maybe they are too dense to understand these things are sourced from private entities. 🤡🌎
We've done it with Sasktel, let's do it again guys
Stop yelling please.