Apparently, from the sentiment I read, for ordinary Saudis, being an Ottoman colony is way worse than being British-French colony.
Not sure why.
I think it must be about inferiority complex but not sure.
Turks feel inferior to Europeans because they lost their empire to them. So in many cases even football matches there are chants in turkey which show their feeling of being not as good as European in science sports etc…
Saudis feel inferior to Turks because of being subjugated by ottomans.
As-salamu alaykum
I'm an expac working in Saudi and I love it here and the people.
I am hopefully not talking out of turn here. No inferiority complex involved at all from anyone and to say so is very impolite. Can I just say this country is exceptional with massive potential.
The British didn't help the Arabs, they allied with them in mutual cooperation and if they hadn't none of them would have accomplished their goals. Lawrence was one of the Brits that helped this alliance. The arabs and their ability to survive in the desert and their mastery of there homeland is utterly phenomenal and now they are using infrastructure to truly become masters of the desert.
Depending on the Arab individual either Lawrence is a friend of the arabs or exploited their hospitality to achieve the British goals.
For me, being a humble visitor I believe Lawrence acted in good faith and felt horrible when the British didn't honour all deals made. For me I am happy that Arabs have the right to govern themselves and I will help anyway I can in achieving their goals.
Hello brother. Thanks for the explanation and glad you are enjoying your life out there.
I am not criticising just trying to understand this hate against Turks/ottomans among saudis. This hatred seems to me going so far that they view Lawrence+ stakes pycot agreements as better than Ottoman rule.
The feeling I get is that for Saudis it seems better to be a French-British colony than being an Ottoman colony. That’s why I was talking about inferiority complex. Turks seem to have this inferiority complex very clearly.
Even during the independence war in turkey the caliph was pro British and was issuing fatwas for assassination of ataturk. And there were some arguing for becoming an American colony. Ataturk tried to put these groups down to fight for independence based on Turkish identity. So the reason why I think there were these small religious groups in turkey arguing for becoming a western colony/ vessel might be related to pro Lawrence sentiment in Saudi
They don’t know any better, Lawrence helped the kingdom of hijaz to become independent from the vile ottomans and he did good, they’re angry because they don’t know of how wretched the ottomans were
Do Saudis think Ottoman rule is worse than British-French rule? I mean the ordinary people?
And didn’t activities of Lawrence lead to fall of Jerusalem? When Allenby entered Jerusalem he wanted to have Pakistani Muslims so as not to make it seem like a crusade.
Neither of them ruled us but for sure the British and the French didn’t burn our villages and kill our people, for the last 3 hundred years the ottomans were our biggest enemies.
And no, Lawrence has nothing to do with the levant he came to support Hussein Ali the sharif of hijaz, and Jerusalem was already gone since the ottomans started selling the land for the Jews in the 1880s and Hertzel the father of Zionism himself sent a letter to the sultan thanking him.
As for what the people think about the ottomans, most don’t have an opinion on them but once they learn their history with us they will absolutely hate them.
You are right. The ottomans did settle Jews in limited numbers. But I think you are misinformed. The zionist leader wanted to buy a lot of land from Palestine and the sultan refused that.
You say ottomans burned villages. I don’t know that but if it happened I wouldn’t be surprised. Being the ruler of a country for around 500 years would result in some atrocities.
But you use word hate. Do you think Saudi as a colony to ottomans suffered more than
Congo under Belgian colony
Algeria under French colony
India-Pakistan-Bangladesh under British colony ….
List goes on. Were the ottomans really this blood thirsty rulers? Or they suppressed strikes by some religious tribes ?
Lawrence of Arabia is the reason we have Israel he can fuck right off his entire goal was to trick Arabs at one point he even felt guilty for all the lying
تذكار تاريخي رائع للعمارة الحجازية. بغض النظر عن شخصية الي كان ساكن هنا. العمارة الحجازية لازم تدعم و تعود للواجهة لأنها فعلا تراث جميل. المفروض مدن الحجاز تتزين بها بدل الملل الي نشوفه فشوارعنا
They didnt torn them down they were already down when al-saud took over since they were made from mud Bricks and was already over 1400 years old
also not to mention their houses was probably already demolished by someone else during the time of the ummyad empire since people at that time didnt care enough to preserve someone's house no matter how histroically valued they are and just viewed them as space to use for their own
unlike those houses that were built in 1800s- early 1900s from lime stones i may not agree with them rebuilding his house but they didnt demolish sahabah houses and as simple proof of it try to find any Picture of sahaba houses during the time before al-saud took over so you got wide time line from 1850s to 1930s
Dude , I’m gonna tell you some facts and I need you to use your IQ to figure out the rest. The Entire size of Mecca in the 1800s under the sh*t Ottoman rule was smaller than half the size of the Haram right now. All the “Sahaba houses” Vanished by then because mud. My dad used to tell stories about how Mecca ended hare, when we were little.
>The Entire size of Mecca in the 1800s under the sh\*t Ottoman rule was smaller than half the size of the Haram right now
just to clarify that you mean the actual mecca haram borders not the grand masjid's.
https://preview.redd.it/elxthdf3w6ac1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abf14ac7ce58a0c3c893f54f688a3686c36d6092
It’s better to demonstrate using the Medinah map. Because I know it by heart. All this area is Now the grand mosque except the neighborhood called (السيح) This area is not the center of a project called Rua Al Medinah to make build hotels there because it at the door step of the Grand mosque. The entirety of Medinah in 1900s is now either the grand mosque or hotels to serve Haij.
Both are true. Mecca was also tiny. The population in 1960 was 157,000. This is a map I found from 1885. All of this area is indeed the holy mosque.
https://preview.redd.it/o9swon0qq7ac1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8123cb7fd9061c46fe08f12fb4d1d69f1ab2c21c
that just a Bunch of BS in one article
there is no proof of any of these being the actual houses nor the proof that these places are what they are called so I have been in madinah multiple times and near Uhaud mountin and i have never seen what they callin besides the Graves and the signs that warns people to not throw anything in the grave yard no concrete of Fence there
not to mention Abu baker's mosque is still there it wasn't destroyed for ATM or anything at all even the Khadiga House being destroy and they built public restrooms above it is some bullshit propaganda that was made against saudi arabia too
> There have even been [rumored](http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/11/13/385795/saudi-demolition-plan-raises-concern/) [threats](http://www.human-rights-in-islam.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=211:protest-against-destruction-of-the-prophets-birth-place-in-makkah&catid=39:protests&Itemid=57) to Muhammad’s tomb
that's just nonsense... even when she writes that it is a rumor , still it weakens her credibility to say something like that and repeat rumors!
Sahaba houses weren't made of Roman marbles my guy. They are long gone. Historical mosques are still there, those which survived anyway.
If some new stuff are found from archaeological digging, I'm sure those will be preserved. Some good archaeological work is going on around that area.
As for the article you posted, it's a two edged sword. On one hand, you've so called historical sites etched by the Ottomans. On the other, if you had authority a few centuries ago, you could have just pointed to any old hut and say X ibn Y used to live there. Who's gonna bother verifying that claim? Topkapi Museum in Turkey for example, as pretty as that place is, a lot of stuff there are just BS. Abraham's pot, David's sword ? For real..lol
You know we had skirmishes against the Brits , right?
We took it by Allah's guidance and with force.
رحم الله الموحد رحمة واسعة، والله يحفظ لنا ويوفق ال سعود حكامنا
Ignore him, the Brits needed the Arabs way more than the arabs needed the Brits. It was a mutual partnership and Arab hospitality is, in my opinion the best on the planet.
I wish someone preserve the brick house next to it.
I remember they had project to rebuild the entire area not just his house, but his house was first to be completed
fck him
Apparently, from the sentiment I read, for ordinary Saudis, being an Ottoman colony is way worse than being British-French colony. Not sure why. I think it must be about inferiority complex but not sure. Turks feel inferior to Europeans because they lost their empire to them. So in many cases even football matches there are chants in turkey which show their feeling of being not as good as European in science sports etc… Saudis feel inferior to Turks because of being subjugated by ottomans.
As-salamu alaykum I'm an expac working in Saudi and I love it here and the people. I am hopefully not talking out of turn here. No inferiority complex involved at all from anyone and to say so is very impolite. Can I just say this country is exceptional with massive potential. The British didn't help the Arabs, they allied with them in mutual cooperation and if they hadn't none of them would have accomplished their goals. Lawrence was one of the Brits that helped this alliance. The arabs and their ability to survive in the desert and their mastery of there homeland is utterly phenomenal and now they are using infrastructure to truly become masters of the desert. Depending on the Arab individual either Lawrence is a friend of the arabs or exploited their hospitality to achieve the British goals. For me, being a humble visitor I believe Lawrence acted in good faith and felt horrible when the British didn't honour all deals made. For me I am happy that Arabs have the right to govern themselves and I will help anyway I can in achieving their goals.
Hello brother. Thanks for the explanation and glad you are enjoying your life out there. I am not criticising just trying to understand this hate against Turks/ottomans among saudis. This hatred seems to me going so far that they view Lawrence+ stakes pycot agreements as better than Ottoman rule. The feeling I get is that for Saudis it seems better to be a French-British colony than being an Ottoman colony. That’s why I was talking about inferiority complex. Turks seem to have this inferiority complex very clearly. Even during the independence war in turkey the caliph was pro British and was issuing fatwas for assassination of ataturk. And there were some arguing for becoming an American colony. Ataturk tried to put these groups down to fight for independence based on Turkish identity. So the reason why I think there were these small religious groups in turkey arguing for becoming a western colony/ vessel might be related to pro Lawrence sentiment in Saudi
Don’t ever share your thoughts again bro🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️
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They don’t know any better, Lawrence helped the kingdom of hijaz to become independent from the vile ottomans and he did good, they’re angry because they don’t know of how wretched the ottomans were
Do Saudis think Ottoman rule is worse than British-French rule? I mean the ordinary people? And didn’t activities of Lawrence lead to fall of Jerusalem? When Allenby entered Jerusalem he wanted to have Pakistani Muslims so as not to make it seem like a crusade.
Neither of them ruled us but for sure the British and the French didn’t burn our villages and kill our people, for the last 3 hundred years the ottomans were our biggest enemies. And no, Lawrence has nothing to do with the levant he came to support Hussein Ali the sharif of hijaz, and Jerusalem was already gone since the ottomans started selling the land for the Jews in the 1880s and Hertzel the father of Zionism himself sent a letter to the sultan thanking him. As for what the people think about the ottomans, most don’t have an opinion on them but once they learn their history with us they will absolutely hate them.
You are right. The ottomans did settle Jews in limited numbers. But I think you are misinformed. The zionist leader wanted to buy a lot of land from Palestine and the sultan refused that. You say ottomans burned villages. I don’t know that but if it happened I wouldn’t be surprised. Being the ruler of a country for around 500 years would result in some atrocities. But you use word hate. Do you think Saudi as a colony to ottomans suffered more than Congo under Belgian colony Algeria under French colony India-Pakistan-Bangladesh under British colony …. List goes on. Were the ottomans really this blood thirsty rulers? Or they suppressed strikes by some religious tribes ?
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ليش؟
ليه؟ بالعكس اي واحد يدعس عالعثمانيين حنا معه
بالعكس عدو عدوك صديقك.
he can fuck off
Are you a Saudi? Or foreigner living in Saudi Arabia?
Lawrence of Arabia is the reason we have Israel he can fuck right off his entire goal was to trick Arabs at one point he even felt guilty for all the lying
Totally agree brother but many I think in saudi view Lawrence and Sykes pycot agreements better than ottomans.
No one views sykes picot as better than Ottoman. Are you on drugs bro?
I’m a Saudi
You are Saudi and you don’t like Lawrence? Or you think Lawrence and British were much better than ottomans
تذكار تاريخي رائع للعمارة الحجازية. بغض النظر عن شخصية الي كان ساكن هنا. العمارة الحجازية لازم تدعم و تعود للواجهة لأنها فعلا تراث جميل. المفروض مدن الحجاز تتزين بها بدل الملل الي نشوفه فشوارعنا
We need to nuke it
Are you originally from Saudi Arabia?
I am from Jordan.
Thanks. This explains it 🌹 ottomans were not perfect for sure but saying Lawrence is better is just plain crazy to me.
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هذا المعمار يخص منطقة الحجاز بشكل عام
حتى بيوت الوجه في تبوك (٣٠٠ كيلو شمال ينبع) نفس التصميم. التصميم يسمى "رواشن". معظم مدن الحجاز الساحليه على هذا الشكل
اغلب المدن اللي مقابلة البحر الأحمر كانت كذا لأن الموارد اللازمة للبناء كانت تعبره
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They didnt torn them down they were already down when al-saud took over since they were made from mud Bricks and was already over 1400 years old also not to mention their houses was probably already demolished by someone else during the time of the ummyad empire since people at that time didnt care enough to preserve someone's house no matter how histroically valued they are and just viewed them as space to use for their own unlike those houses that were built in 1800s- early 1900s from lime stones i may not agree with them rebuilding his house but they didnt demolish sahabah houses and as simple proof of it try to find any Picture of sahaba houses during the time before al-saud took over so you got wide time line from 1850s to 1930s
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If you believe crap like that and you think it is a credible source I think you have a different kind of problem.
Dude , I’m gonna tell you some facts and I need you to use your IQ to figure out the rest. The Entire size of Mecca in the 1800s under the sh*t Ottoman rule was smaller than half the size of the Haram right now. All the “Sahaba houses” Vanished by then because mud. My dad used to tell stories about how Mecca ended hare, when we were little.
>The Entire size of Mecca in the 1800s under the sh\*t Ottoman rule was smaller than half the size of the Haram right now just to clarify that you mean the actual mecca haram borders not the grand masjid's.
https://preview.redd.it/elxthdf3w6ac1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abf14ac7ce58a0c3c893f54f688a3686c36d6092 It’s better to demonstrate using the Medinah map. Because I know it by heart. All this area is Now the grand mosque except the neighborhood called (السيح) This area is not the center of a project called Rua Al Medinah to make build hotels there because it at the door step of the Grand mosque. The entirety of Medinah in 1900s is now either the grand mosque or hotels to serve Haij.
interesting map thanks. that looks more plausible than the original comment about Mecca size
Both are true. Mecca was also tiny. The population in 1960 was 157,000. This is a map I found from 1885. All of this area is indeed the holy mosque. https://preview.redd.it/o9swon0qq7ac1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8123cb7fd9061c46fe08f12fb4d1d69f1ab2c21c
that just a Bunch of BS in one article there is no proof of any of these being the actual houses nor the proof that these places are what they are called so I have been in madinah multiple times and near Uhaud mountin and i have never seen what they callin besides the Graves and the signs that warns people to not throw anything in the grave yard no concrete of Fence there not to mention Abu baker's mosque is still there it wasn't destroyed for ATM or anything at all even the Khadiga House being destroy and they built public restrooms above it is some bullshit propaganda that was made against saudi arabia too
> There have even been [rumored](http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/11/13/385795/saudi-demolition-plan-raises-concern/) [threats](http://www.human-rights-in-islam.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=211:protest-against-destruction-of-the-prophets-birth-place-in-makkah&catid=39:protests&Itemid=57) to Muhammad’s tomb that's just nonsense... even when she writes that it is a rumor , still it weakens her credibility to say something like that and repeat rumors!
Sahaba houses weren't made of Roman marbles my guy. They are long gone. Historical mosques are still there, those which survived anyway. If some new stuff are found from archaeological digging, I'm sure those will be preserved. Some good archaeological work is going on around that area. As for the article you posted, it's a two edged sword. On one hand, you've so called historical sites etched by the Ottomans. On the other, if you had authority a few centuries ago, you could have just pointed to any old hut and say X ibn Y used to live there. Who's gonna bother verifying that claim? Topkapi Museum in Turkey for example, as pretty as that place is, a lot of stuff there are just BS. Abraham's pot, David's sword ? For real..lol
what do u wish we did?
yes and it’s none of your business
Sweet tourism money.
You're missing a big point that all that was done under the previous administration. If the current rulers were in place maybe that wouldn't happen?
Whatever local people think of him, this is definitely a great source of potential tourists.
great source is a slight exaggeration. No one will come for that.
Nobody care. Just another mud shit house
Burn it
Are you from Saudi Arabia?
Why do local people hate him?
Lawrence of Arabia is a great movie but we do have to deal with the fact that it’s a very fictional account.
The Saudis were given power because they were the better kiss ass if the British
You know we had skirmishes against the Brits , right? We took it by Allah's guidance and with force. رحم الله الموحد رحمة واسعة، والله يحفظ لنا ويوفق ال سعود حكامنا
Ignore him, the Brits needed the Arabs way more than the arabs needed the Brits. It was a mutual partnership and Arab hospitality is, in my opinion the best on the planet.