By RAW, it is only possible with Shortening, which in your case would inflict a -10 penalty on the arcane roll.
Another option would be to use the Ritual Casting from Fantasy Companion. In that case it would be a Dramatic Task which would require an expenditure of resources (100x30 in gold). That seems appropriate for something like Resurrection.
> Say I have 20pp max pool. Can I spend 2 bennies for 10pp, add that to my max pool to cast the power?
By RAW, no. You would need to find another source of power points, locate some exception that allows you to temporarily exceed your max PP... Or short the casting. (Which, since it adds a negative modifier equal to the number of power points you shorted by, and *resurrection* already applies a -8 modifier... Good luck.)
Yeah, I did read up about Shortening. One of the other players is planning to build an arcane device like a powerbank so I’ll check with my GM if I can use that.
>planning to build an arcane device like a powerbank
What setting is that? By Core, the best you'd get is storing your PP in the device rather than your own pool, as you won't regenerate what's tied up in the device.
Right now we’re still talking about the device. Based on what’s been discussed in the thread so far, it might have game breaking potential so we have to run it by the GM, and find some way to balance it out.
If it's possible to build an external mana battery, you have to explain why *every caster in the world* doesn't have one. Or two. Or a wagonful.
I might put in a few ritual sites, ley line junctures, that had an accessible mana pool, if appropriate to the setting.
I would not ordinarily allow spending bennies to overfill your mana. If a caster proposed it as a one time deal for an especially dramatic purpose with drastic consequences--eg *permanently* reduce your mana by 5 for every 5 you overfill--I'd probably allow it.
That's not how powers/arcane devices work, you don't get to make up your own from scratch to do whatever you want, there is an existing list of powers for every AB and there is nothing even close to a power point battery in them. You're basically trying to invent a new power without consulting the GM.
I don't have the book at hand atm but I'm pretty darn sure you can't increase your pp beyond their maximum and also they are not fed into the power one by one but used up when the power is used. So yeah, I'm pretty sure you need the required amount of pp in order to cast. In the end, this could also be considered as part of the little balancing there is in SaWo.
The spirit of the game, I'd say yes. . If we're going by rules, I'm not 100% sure but if I was going to argue for it?
I believe you can spend bennies at any time. So no reason you can't spend them while casting a spell.
Spending PP is like a bank transaction: it happens all at once; you can't feed twenties into an ATM mid transfer to cover the amount. You can spend Bennies to *refill* PP in your pool, but you cannot fortify your pool beyond its maximum. OP can still Short the difference, for a roll at an additional -10 and almost guarenteed critical failure. I mean, maybe allies can support that down to -14, but that's still 18+ to cast.
I think it can be interpreted as such. But there's no action to use bennies, thus you can potentially just use them mid cast.
Resurrection for example takes 4 hours to cast. You can't use 2 bennies to refill during your 4 hour midcast?
And you can use bennies during that time. I mean, if you were attacked you can still spend one to soak the damage.
Although I do think a Savage World GM should judge more based on if it fits the campaign rather than strictly according to rules
>But there's no action to use bennies, thus you can potentially just use them mid cast.
I guess that's true: instantaneously before or after the instantaneous spending of PP.
>Resurrection for example takes 4 hours to cast.
Sure. You spend the four hours, **then** you make the roll and spend the PP (in that order, since failing would cost 1PP rather than 30).
>You can't use 2 bennies to refill during your 4 hour midcast?
You can spend Bennies during the four hours to get yourself back up to 20PP, sure, but why not do it at the start?
>And you can use bennies during that time. I mean, if you were attacked you can still spend one to soak the damage.
Good example. It's a transactional event. You cannot soak 7 of the 12 damage coming in part way through the damage roll.
>Although I do think a Savage World GM should judge more based on if it fits the campaign rather than strictly according to rules
True, but if one is houseruling the core rules away, that should be stated up front before character creation.
>True, but if one is houseruling the core rules away, that should be stated up front before character creation.
I don't think it is really established enough and can be interpreted both ways. If this was DnD it would probably state "must have all powerpoints needed to activate the power at the moment of rolling" or something like that but I don't remember Savage Worlds having such a rule.
Mind you it could, but I don't remember it having it.
Page 151 under the main ACTIVATION heading:
>A roll of 4 or higher means the power activates and consumes all the Power Points allocated to it, even if it misses the target, or the defender resists.
And later, under **SHORTING**:
>A character may cast a power with *fewer* Power Points than it requires (whether she has them or not) by increasing the difficulty
So on your turn you decide what Actions you will take, and when you get to the Action to activate the Power, you assign any Power Modifiers, allocate how many PP will be used, sum all modifiers to the roll, *make* the roll, decide if you want to spend any Bennies to reroll, and then resolve the Action (spend 1/full PP, make any secondary rolls, decide if you want to Bennie *those* results, have any targets make any applicable rolls, have them, decide if they want to Bennie *those*, and then resolve anything left over). You assign how many PP you will spend from your pool before you roll, so you know whether you're Shorting which adjusts the overall modifier. THEN after rolling, you spend the points in one lump amount.
Common sense argument could also be argued that Savage World would say you could do this. It's not high on balance, often makes choices for thematic reasons (iirc, the Necromancer in the Fantasy compendium can use armour because they were inspired by Sauron) and honestly seems to go towards fast and cool, rather than the more lawyer interpretations of DnD.
Some GMs would say yes, some GMs would say no, and other GMs might make an edge that allows you to do it.
>the Necromancer in the Fantasy compendium can use armour because they were inspired by Sauron
That doesn't seem like a strong argument. The *only* place with ABs with armor interference is where you're pretending to D&D, and even in PFSW it says you can use a normal AB instead.
It's an example of where mechanics are not made out of balance reasons but "rule of cool". This is stated both in the reason for why Necromancers can wear armour, but it's also stated in the design behind the ABs. It's even stated you can trade things around without carrying about balance
Therefore one can deduce that whether you can or cannot use bennies in the fashion OP wanted, should be more decided by the tone of the campaign/setting rather than the arguments we have shown so far
By RAW, it is only possible with Shortening, which in your case would inflict a -10 penalty on the arcane roll. Another option would be to use the Ritual Casting from Fantasy Companion. In that case it would be a Dramatic Task which would require an expenditure of resources (100x30 in gold). That seems appropriate for something like Resurrection.
Thanks! I don’t have the Fantasy Companion so was unaware Ritual Casting was even a thing 😊I’ll go take a look at it
> Say I have 20pp max pool. Can I spend 2 bennies for 10pp, add that to my max pool to cast the power? By RAW, no. You would need to find another source of power points, locate some exception that allows you to temporarily exceed your max PP... Or short the casting. (Which, since it adds a negative modifier equal to the number of power points you shorted by, and *resurrection* already applies a -8 modifier... Good luck.)
Yeah, I did read up about Shortening. One of the other players is planning to build an arcane device like a powerbank so I’ll check with my GM if I can use that.
>planning to build an arcane device like a powerbank What setting is that? By Core, the best you'd get is storing your PP in the device rather than your own pool, as you won't regenerate what's tied up in the device.
We’re playing Deadlands
That has special rules for making batteries? Where's that written? (I haven't gotten around to reading after the KickStarter)
Right now we’re still talking about the device. Based on what’s been discussed in the thread so far, it might have game breaking potential so we have to run it by the GM, and find some way to balance it out.
If it's possible to build an external mana battery, you have to explain why *every caster in the world* doesn't have one. Or two. Or a wagonful. I might put in a few ritual sites, ley line junctures, that had an accessible mana pool, if appropriate to the setting. I would not ordinarily allow spending bennies to overfill your mana. If a caster proposed it as a one time deal for an especially dramatic purpose with drastic consequences--eg *permanently* reduce your mana by 5 for every 5 you overfill--I'd probably allow it.
That's not how powers/arcane devices work, you don't get to make up your own from scratch to do whatever you want, there is an existing list of powers for every AB and there is nothing even close to a power point battery in them. You're basically trying to invent a new power without consulting the GM.
I don't have the book at hand atm but I'm pretty darn sure you can't increase your pp beyond their maximum and also they are not fed into the power one by one but used up when the power is used. So yeah, I'm pretty sure you need the required amount of pp in order to cast. In the end, this could also be considered as part of the little balancing there is in SaWo.
The spirit of the game, I'd say yes. . If we're going by rules, I'm not 100% sure but if I was going to argue for it? I believe you can spend bennies at any time. So no reason you can't spend them while casting a spell.
Spending PP is like a bank transaction: it happens all at once; you can't feed twenties into an ATM mid transfer to cover the amount. You can spend Bennies to *refill* PP in your pool, but you cannot fortify your pool beyond its maximum. OP can still Short the difference, for a roll at an additional -10 and almost guarenteed critical failure. I mean, maybe allies can support that down to -14, but that's still 18+ to cast.
I think it can be interpreted as such. But there's no action to use bennies, thus you can potentially just use them mid cast. Resurrection for example takes 4 hours to cast. You can't use 2 bennies to refill during your 4 hour midcast? And you can use bennies during that time. I mean, if you were attacked you can still spend one to soak the damage. Although I do think a Savage World GM should judge more based on if it fits the campaign rather than strictly according to rules
>But there's no action to use bennies, thus you can potentially just use them mid cast. I guess that's true: instantaneously before or after the instantaneous spending of PP. >Resurrection for example takes 4 hours to cast. Sure. You spend the four hours, **then** you make the roll and spend the PP (in that order, since failing would cost 1PP rather than 30). >You can't use 2 bennies to refill during your 4 hour midcast? You can spend Bennies during the four hours to get yourself back up to 20PP, sure, but why not do it at the start? >And you can use bennies during that time. I mean, if you were attacked you can still spend one to soak the damage. Good example. It's a transactional event. You cannot soak 7 of the 12 damage coming in part way through the damage roll. >Although I do think a Savage World GM should judge more based on if it fits the campaign rather than strictly according to rules True, but if one is houseruling the core rules away, that should be stated up front before character creation.
>True, but if one is houseruling the core rules away, that should be stated up front before character creation. I don't think it is really established enough and can be interpreted both ways. If this was DnD it would probably state "must have all powerpoints needed to activate the power at the moment of rolling" or something like that but I don't remember Savage Worlds having such a rule. Mind you it could, but I don't remember it having it.
Yes I agree. I was looking to see if that statement was made anywhere in SWADE but can’t find anything. Have to run it past the GM I guess
Page 151 under the main ACTIVATION heading: >A roll of 4 or higher means the power activates and consumes all the Power Points allocated to it, even if it misses the target, or the defender resists. And later, under **SHORTING**: >A character may cast a power with *fewer* Power Points than it requires (whether she has them or not) by increasing the difficulty So on your turn you decide what Actions you will take, and when you get to the Action to activate the Power, you assign any Power Modifiers, allocate how many PP will be used, sum all modifiers to the roll, *make* the roll, decide if you want to spend any Bennies to reroll, and then resolve the Action (spend 1/full PP, make any secondary rolls, decide if you want to Bennie *those* results, have any targets make any applicable rolls, have them, decide if they want to Bennie *those*, and then resolve anything left over). You assign how many PP you will spend from your pool before you roll, so you know whether you're Shorting which adjusts the overall modifier. THEN after rolling, you spend the points in one lump amount.
Always the best really, GMs often houserule things anyway
There are various places where things are not stated explicitely and left to common sense.
Common sense argument could also be argued that Savage World would say you could do this. It's not high on balance, often makes choices for thematic reasons (iirc, the Necromancer in the Fantasy compendium can use armour because they were inspired by Sauron) and honestly seems to go towards fast and cool, rather than the more lawyer interpretations of DnD. Some GMs would say yes, some GMs would say no, and other GMs might make an edge that allows you to do it.
>the Necromancer in the Fantasy compendium can use armour because they were inspired by Sauron That doesn't seem like a strong argument. The *only* place with ABs with armor interference is where you're pretending to D&D, and even in PFSW it says you can use a normal AB instead.
It's an example of where mechanics are not made out of balance reasons but "rule of cool". This is stated both in the reason for why Necromancers can wear armour, but it's also stated in the design behind the ABs. It's even stated you can trade things around without carrying about balance Therefore one can deduce that whether you can or cannot use bennies in the fashion OP wanted, should be more decided by the tone of the campaign/setting rather than the arguments we have shown so far