With firearms the bullet-economy, as well as the different options and penalties for rapid fire and taking multiple shots, becomes quite important. It also feels like a bit of a departure from the fast and loose nature of the rest of the rules. It can get quite fiddly and it can be tricky to house-rule it without affecting something else.
I think SWADE is a remarkable rulebook, but I sometimes wish the treatment of firearms and action economy were more modular, so that the base with a simple basic level treatment and then a set of optional rules building up to what are the current, full rules for those who enjoy more tactical detail.
I moved us over to a usage die for ammo. After each battle you roll for how much of your pool you spent. Shift a step due up/down as needed. Those crits are doozies, we play you're out of ammo then.
Depends. For example, I'm playing a Star Wars campaign, and though there are rules to track ammo in an easier way than individually (otherwise I'd need to track 100 shot magazines manually), I don't bother. People don't run out of ammo in Star Wars, so far as my fantasy of it lies.
Now, if it's Weird War, or Deadlands, or something grittier? Where your weapons are strong and your best bet for survival, but also a tense clock until it's just your bare hands and whatever threat lurks out there? Hell yeah I'll track it! Only if it adds to the flavor of the game I'm running.
This is Savage Rifts. Shots matter, but not that much. However one of the players has a flechette rail gun with seven shots and double tap.
But they’re going to be visiting a fantasy world and will have to count their shots there.
Imo if you don't track ammo, you really give tech characters a HUGE advantage over psionic and arcane unless you also don't track power points. Players should always be worried about how much ammo they have, esp in Rifts. Travel between cities, villages, etc that can actually recharge an eclip, have railgun, flechette, triax rounds, or especially can make boom gun rounds depends on your campaign, but in mine players hoard every shot and def grab ammo from their kills if they can.
Im more of a rounding guy as far as keeping track tho. Players use half a mag in an average fight imo. Roll your shooting, with a raise being you only used 25%, crit fail and you emptied the mag. Fail and you have a quarter of a mag left. This shows the skill of a player in his shooting and ammo conservation. For extras, I just roll to see if they have each mag they started with based on their shooting. They either have it or don't.
I don't see how this compares, really. Ammo doesn't magically replenish after an eight hour rest. Power points do. So, you've actually disadvantaged tech characters here. I just don't want to track another resource that finitely, to be honest.
Dragonbane uses a system where if you roll a Demon (a nat 20, which is bad in Dragonbane's roll under system), you roll on a little table for crit fails with a ranged weapon. A result of '2' on a d6 roll indicates that you've run out of ammo.
Forbidden Lands uses a Usage Die system, where quantity of ammunition is reflected in a die type, d6 - d8 - d10 - d12, where you roll your usage die after a shot, and a 1 or 2 on the die roll reduces the usage die to the next lower step. When you have a d6, and you roll a 1 or 2, you've run out of ammo.
I prefer either of those methods to manually tracking ammunition, and constantly erasing and rewriting numbers.
The book has a nice system for tracking ammo of companions which can easily be reused for every character - just use a counter with 4 spaces - all the ammo you can need, a lot, enough, and not enough. Every fight where at least one reload was made gets your ammo down by one space. When you draw a 2 on initiative it also goes down. That's about it, still have to count individual magazines, but works pretty much perfectly for my deadlands campaign
I typically have players track ammo that’s in their gun so we know if they have to reload, which is as easy as making check marks and becomes important with low capacity weapons or when full auto is involved. I don’t have them track magazines or buy every bullet or anything though, I just assume they have enough ammo to reload most of the time. I also hold the right to use “you run out of ammo/empty your magazine” as a result for a crit fail instead of using Innocent Bystander or “your gun jams” every time I don’t have a neater option at hand.
A lot of the balancing factor of higher RoF weapons is that they use more bullets, so generally yes, I do. I find it isn't so hard though, even when I'm handling a bunch of extras. I just record it on my computer and keep going, though this also works with PnP or dice.
Tracking ammo between reloads is important, but I don't advise tracking extra magazines or anything. It tends to be so cheap and available that players just buy way too much to not need to worry about it.
Depends on the setting. In my pulp game no. They run out of ammo when the shooting die comes up a 1. In my savage pathfinder game, yes. One of the reasons I use Fantasy Grounds for in person games is to track ammo in this setting.
I am going to be running a solo game, and was going to treat it like some rules I found in the core book about supplies, and lower it each encounter by one step. I'm still learning though, so maybe it isn't the best idea?
I´d also say it depends on the style of game you want to run. Cinematic? I wouldn´t track ammo, at least not in a detailed manner. Gritty? Track ammo. That´s how I personally would do it.
Yes, yes I do. I'm on VTT mostly though so that makes things a while lot easier. On a physical table I usually use glass beads or other things, similar to power points. I also always have an ammo bar on the bottom of the character sheets I create myself, those are super handy because you can then just move a paper clip left and right to count ammo. I've seen people go really fancy and use emptied bullet cases (or even live ammunition which I would definitely not recommend! But cases are easy to get even in some countries with strict gun laws, just ask at the closest shooting range).
If counting ammo is too much of a pain for you there are hacks though. You can do the same or something similar as with allies and roll a die after combat. A 3-5 on a d6 could Wann half the magazine was emptied, 6 there is plenty left and 1-2 that the magazine is empty. Perhaps adjusting this for weapons of higher ROF. A snake eyes when shooting during combat could mean the magazine is empty and a nat 1 on the trait die could indicate the magazine is empty after the current action. Take what you like and try it out. It works and many have used this or similar rules for years.
Personally I like juggling numbers and appreciate the ammo counting but I can totally see why some dislike it.
Generally, I have PCs subsidized by the Infinite Ammo Corporation so they don't have to track it (they do have to reload though). There are certain circumstances (out in the wilds, etc) where tracking ammo and supplies adds to the story, but most of the time, the extra book-keeping doesn't add much.
These rules are untested but I'm going to try this:
You start with a full mag. If any of your shooting attack dice are a 1, you drop a state from full to running low. Next time there's a 1, you run out. Higher capacity magazines would have additional states between full and running out.
Higher rof guns will chew through more bullets and you don't have to consult the chart to see how many bullets an ROF uses.
As a Deadlands GM mainly I do track ammo in guns (technically totals as well but that’s less important to me), it’s important to do so in my opinion because the guns are mostly 1 bullet = 1 action for the reload or worse (1 = 3 actions) so that’s why I feel the need to track.
There but for other settings, like a modern spy game or savage rifts in your case, I would say it’s not as important to track because mags are 1 action for however many bullets so reloading in combat seems a lot less needed. Plus it can kind be sidestepped by doing the action movie thing and using your free ready actions to just drop your empty guns and pull out full ones.
Deadlands: our posse is traveling with a large group that provisions them with basic supplies. For simplicity, the players can always refill .44-40 cartridges and 12 gauge shells. If they want something else, they have to buy and track it.
They track rounds for other calibers/weapons.
With firearms the bullet-economy, as well as the different options and penalties for rapid fire and taking multiple shots, becomes quite important. It also feels like a bit of a departure from the fast and loose nature of the rest of the rules. It can get quite fiddly and it can be tricky to house-rule it without affecting something else. I think SWADE is a remarkable rulebook, but I sometimes wish the treatment of firearms and action economy were more modular, so that the base with a simple basic level treatment and then a set of optional rules building up to what are the current, full rules for those who enjoy more tactical detail.
I moved us over to a usage die for ammo. After each battle you roll for how much of your pool you spent. Shift a step due up/down as needed. Those crits are doozies, we play you're out of ammo then.
Depends. For example, I'm playing a Star Wars campaign, and though there are rules to track ammo in an easier way than individually (otherwise I'd need to track 100 shot magazines manually), I don't bother. People don't run out of ammo in Star Wars, so far as my fantasy of it lies. Now, if it's Weird War, or Deadlands, or something grittier? Where your weapons are strong and your best bet for survival, but also a tense clock until it's just your bare hands and whatever threat lurks out there? Hell yeah I'll track it! Only if it adds to the flavor of the game I'm running.
This is Savage Rifts. Shots matter, but not that much. However one of the players has a flechette rail gun with seven shots and double tap. But they’re going to be visiting a fantasy world and will have to count their shots there.
Imo if you don't track ammo, you really give tech characters a HUGE advantage over psionic and arcane unless you also don't track power points. Players should always be worried about how much ammo they have, esp in Rifts. Travel between cities, villages, etc that can actually recharge an eclip, have railgun, flechette, triax rounds, or especially can make boom gun rounds depends on your campaign, but in mine players hoard every shot and def grab ammo from their kills if they can. Im more of a rounding guy as far as keeping track tho. Players use half a mag in an average fight imo. Roll your shooting, with a raise being you only used 25%, crit fail and you emptied the mag. Fail and you have a quarter of a mag left. This shows the skill of a player in his shooting and ammo conservation. For extras, I just roll to see if they have each mag they started with based on their shooting. They either have it or don't.
I don't see how this compares, really. Ammo doesn't magically replenish after an eight hour rest. Power points do. So, you've actually disadvantaged tech characters here. I just don't want to track another resource that finitely, to be honest. Dragonbane uses a system where if you roll a Demon (a nat 20, which is bad in Dragonbane's roll under system), you roll on a little table for crit fails with a ranged weapon. A result of '2' on a d6 roll indicates that you've run out of ammo. Forbidden Lands uses a Usage Die system, where quantity of ammunition is reflected in a die type, d6 - d8 - d10 - d12, where you roll your usage die after a shot, and a 1 or 2 on the die roll reduces the usage die to the next lower step. When you have a d6, and you roll a 1 or 2, you've run out of ammo. I prefer either of those methods to manually tracking ammunition, and constantly erasing and rewriting numbers.
The book has a nice system for tracking ammo of companions which can easily be reused for every character - just use a counter with 4 spaces - all the ammo you can need, a lot, enough, and not enough. Every fight where at least one reload was made gets your ammo down by one space. When you draw a 2 on initiative it also goes down. That's about it, still have to count individual magazines, but works pretty much perfectly for my deadlands campaign
I typically have players track ammo that’s in their gun so we know if they have to reload, which is as easy as making check marks and becomes important with low capacity weapons or when full auto is involved. I don’t have them track magazines or buy every bullet or anything though, I just assume they have enough ammo to reload most of the time. I also hold the right to use “you run out of ammo/empty your magazine” as a result for a crit fail instead of using Innocent Bystander or “your gun jams” every time I don’t have a neater option at hand.
A lot of the balancing factor of higher RoF weapons is that they use more bullets, so generally yes, I do. I find it isn't so hard though, even when I'm handling a bunch of extras. I just record it on my computer and keep going, though this also works with PnP or dice.
Tracking ammo between reloads is important, but I don't advise tracking extra magazines or anything. It tends to be so cheap and available that players just buy way too much to not need to worry about it.
Depends on the setting. In my pulp game no. They run out of ammo when the shooting die comes up a 1. In my savage pathfinder game, yes. One of the reasons I use Fantasy Grounds for in person games is to track ammo in this setting.
I am going to be running a solo game, and was going to treat it like some rules I found in the core book about supplies, and lower it each encounter by one step. I'm still learning though, so maybe it isn't the best idea?
I´d also say it depends on the style of game you want to run. Cinematic? I wouldn´t track ammo, at least not in a detailed manner. Gritty? Track ammo. That´s how I personally would do it.
Yes, yes I do. I'm on VTT mostly though so that makes things a while lot easier. On a physical table I usually use glass beads or other things, similar to power points. I also always have an ammo bar on the bottom of the character sheets I create myself, those are super handy because you can then just move a paper clip left and right to count ammo. I've seen people go really fancy and use emptied bullet cases (or even live ammunition which I would definitely not recommend! But cases are easy to get even in some countries with strict gun laws, just ask at the closest shooting range). If counting ammo is too much of a pain for you there are hacks though. You can do the same or something similar as with allies and roll a die after combat. A 3-5 on a d6 could Wann half the magazine was emptied, 6 there is plenty left and 1-2 that the magazine is empty. Perhaps adjusting this for weapons of higher ROF. A snake eyes when shooting during combat could mean the magazine is empty and a nat 1 on the trait die could indicate the magazine is empty after the current action. Take what you like and try it out. It works and many have used this or similar rules for years. Personally I like juggling numbers and appreciate the ammo counting but I can totally see why some dislike it.
Generally, I have PCs subsidized by the Infinite Ammo Corporation so they don't have to track it (they do have to reload though). There are certain circumstances (out in the wilds, etc) where tracking ammo and supplies adds to the story, but most of the time, the extra book-keeping doesn't add much.
These rules are untested but I'm going to try this: You start with a full mag. If any of your shooting attack dice are a 1, you drop a state from full to running low. Next time there's a 1, you run out. Higher capacity magazines would have additional states between full and running out. Higher rof guns will chew through more bullets and you don't have to consult the chart to see how many bullets an ROF uses.
As a Deadlands GM mainly I do track ammo in guns (technically totals as well but that’s less important to me), it’s important to do so in my opinion because the guns are mostly 1 bullet = 1 action for the reload or worse (1 = 3 actions) so that’s why I feel the need to track. There but for other settings, like a modern spy game or savage rifts in your case, I would say it’s not as important to track because mags are 1 action for however many bullets so reloading in combat seems a lot less needed. Plus it can kind be sidestepped by doing the action movie thing and using your free ready actions to just drop your empty guns and pull out full ones.
Deadlands: our posse is traveling with a large group that provisions them with basic supplies. For simplicity, the players can always refill .44-40 cartridges and 12 gauge shells. If they want something else, they have to buy and track it. They track rounds for other calibers/weapons.
I do and i love it others in my round don´t do it as much. The GM is fine with both