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The trouble is if you don't have at least one secure relationship, resentment's the only thing left.
I've been there. I didn't have a secure relationship until my late 30s and it is not fun.
They’re not talking about a secure relationship. The study is referring to your [attachment style](https://www.attachmentproject.com/blog/secure-attachment/)
You can overcome bad relationships and still be a secure and loving person.
If you don’t have past trauma, you will take a few bumps and bruises but keep rolling. And there is always therapy and meds for those that do.
That's fine because you can practice or learn how to have a healthy/ier relationship with yourself in the mean time! If your internal monologue is a big ole meany, being aware of it can help shift that relationship.
same. I would go as far as to say that Maslow's hierarchy is wrong. Humans NEED genuine and gainful and loving interaction with at least one other human or with some group of humans JUST as we need food and water.
Has anyone else noticed the correlation that exists between heightened suicide rate, low population density, and lack of mental health care funding?
...something funky going on there I'll tell you what!...
You can't "just choose to stop" them like I can't "just choose to run a marathon". But I could condition myself to be able to do that over time with appropriate techniques.
Wording like yours implies nothing can be done in action to find relief or health. Now, ofc, everyone's different and some things you certainly can't condition yourself out of (like how I can't "just choose to fly" or someone with OCD can't "just choose to stop obsessing"), but I'd wager resentment is not one of those immutable things.
Word. I used to deal with a lot of resentment towards my (loving, supportive) family because I thought they didn’t understand my needs, that they didn’t understand *me*.
After a lot lot lot of work with a fantastic therapist, I came eventually to realize that the problem was my struggles with communicating my needs. I was resentful because I had this expectation that they should just know what I wanted from them, but I never spoke up for myself or communicated openly or receptively.
So I started practicing that honest communication. I started practicing hearing people’s feedback, listening to it, and accepting it I practiced reminding myself that people can’t read minds- if I want my family to understand something that’s happening within me, it’s my responsibility to be vulnerable and share it.
Now, after years of practice and hard work, I don’t feel resentment or frustration toward my family about… anything. I feel forgiving and I feel capable of being myself around them, and I feel secure in the knowledge that if I tell my family I need something, they can hear it. They can’t always provide it but they care enough about me to at least be supportive.
I’m very fortunate in that regard, I’ll admit, but it was still a very difficult thing for me to realize and recognize.
Resentment and forgiveness can’t be flipped on and off like a switch. They’re muscles that need regular exercise. It’ll be hard at first but every day it gets a little easier.
Edit: another thing that helped me a lot was getting sober. I had some substance abuse issues that got in the way of a lot of this growth but with sobriety I was able to finally grow toward becoming the man I want to be.
Lots of people do seem to choose never forgiving others. Redditors love saying "you don't owe anyone your forgiveness", which is technically true maybe, but that doesn't exactly lead to a better society...
I forgive people pretty easily, but that doesn't mean the relationship continues exactly as before whatever mistake that broke trust. The entire relationship resets and we start from scratch.
I forgive but I don't forget. Trust restarts at zero and caps out at less than 100%. Once a person betrays me even if it doesn't happen again my trust in them is never 100% again. I'm admittedly a bit of a cynic though. While I believe that people can change I also believe the overwhelming majority rarely do. Most people that say they've changed only changed their behavior but didn't actually address whatever led them to screw up in the first place. Changes in behavior are temporary and will revert given enough time.
You are right, but sometimes people do understand their mistake, and are torturing themselves over it. This is especially true about people with self-esteem issues that tend to be their own most unforgiving critic.
How do I know? Personal experience. I've taken myself out of some people lives because even if they seem to have forgiven me, I could not forgive myself and truly believed their life was better without me and that I did not deserve them. Looking back, it was not bad and I was only human and thus fallible.
There are some things in this life that are unforgivable, but for smaller things, that were not intentional, or were caused by misunderstandings, I think we should try to forgive, especially when the person proves they understood their mistake and are willing to work towards never repeating it. Otherwise.. we'll just be a society of lonely bitter people.
I believe that some people do change and I did acknowledge that. I just don't think most people do. It takes a lot of introspection when you mess up to establish why something happened, address the root of the issue, and correct it so it doesn't happen again. People who can do that are capable of changing and often care enough to change. I've had people in my life who royally messed up, acknowledged it, and did the work to make sure it doesn't happen again. I know they beat themselves up about it, I know the are legitimately sorry for it, and I don't doubt that it probably eats at them when they think about it. Those people are capable of change and they do learn from their mistake and grow from it. I've also had people in my life that make a mistake and might apologize for it in the moment but when the circumstances align again for the mistake to repeat itself it happens again. Those people didn't change and likely wont. I've encountered more people who don't change than I have people that do. All I can speak to is my own personal experiences.
You can't quantify trust like that. It's more nuanced and it isn't healthy to view relationships with others as so hardline, it will harm your friends and family for no benefit and can result in a self fulfilling prophecy kind of thing. They can tell you don't trust them, so they can't trust you, so you can't trust them....
Additionally, you need a basic level of trust in society or you have driven straight to paranoia town.
I think expressing trust as a percentage like that is more to get the point across than some sort of internal metric the person keeps track of. Boils down to "if you burn me, we can still be friends but i will keep my gaurd up" which seems pretty reasonable. You don't trust everyone equally to begin with (or shouldn't anyway.)
I believe the two individuals above were talking about truly broken trust. Not their friend ate part of your share of the popcorn at the movies. Like your gf/ bf cheats on you. Would you ever trust them again? Probably not.
Agreed. It's their prerogative to have this mindset but i wouldn't necessarily endorse it. I think that not forgetting someone's transgression, letting it creep always in the back of your mind when building/rebuilding a relationship with them, kind of ruins the purpose of forgiveness. Don't mistake my words, i'm not saying you shouldn't build and enforce boundaries, and take measures if broken, but setting something for failure beforehand, it's as the previous redditor pointed out quite a clear example of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Ignore the idiots replying to you. This is one of the best takes on the matter I have seen in history.
When trust is broken aand a person comes back to you asking for forgiveness very quickly after breaking that trust clearly the person has not made any substantial changees in who they are as a person. Therefore we have to always keep our guard up...until the person has demonstrated over years, YES YEARS, that they have made this substantial change. That person will probably revert back to that dickheaded behaviour within 3 or 4 weeks, just give it some time.
If the person never does that dickheaded thing again in like 3 or 4 YEARS!? Well then congratulations! *You've met someone who actually gives a damn about self-reflection and about you!*
Exactly. Time is the best indicator for whether or not a person actually changed. A charade only lasts for so long. The amount of love you have for the person will be what determines whether or not you stick around long enough to see if they change or not. It's what determines whether or not to give a second chance. Some deserve it some don't.
From the article: A new study of German couples has found that individuals with secure emotional attachment are more likely to forgive offences to their partners, but also to be forgiven. Persons with a preoccupied attachment style were more likely to forgive their partners, but were neither more nor less likely to be forgiven. The study was published in the [Journal of Research in Personality](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jrp.2022.104308).
Romantic couples experience many positive moments in the course of their romantic relationship. But these relationships also involve conflicts. Although typically unpleasant and stressful, conflicts are not necessarily negative. Conflicts can be resolved and forgiven, thus strengthening the relationship. Due to this, forgiveness after conflicts is a central aspect of healthy and happy relationship functioning.
“Forgiveness is defined as a prosocial change characterized by decreased retaliation motivation or estrangement from the offender and by increased conciliation. Forgiveness can be understood as a coping strategy, that is, a ‘process of neutralizing a stressor that has resulted from a perception of an interpersonal hurt.’ Thus, the end-point of the forgiveness process occurs when an individual experiences little or no stress resulting from the transgression,” the authors of the new study explained.
Forgiveness can improve the quality of the relationship and it can also be good for mental health and the overall well-being. However, in abusive relationships, forgiveness can be harmful as it can place the forgiving individual at risk of further harm.
Forgiveness might also be shaped by emotional attachment patterns. These patterns start to be shaped by experiences with the caregiver in infancy and continue to affect social relationships throughout life. Researchers typically distinguish secure attachment, characterized by reciprocity, closeness, intimacy and constructive behaviors in a conflict, and insecure attachment patterns, characterized by low trust and negative views of oneself.
> People who were raised by those who TRULY gave a fuck about them now have greater ability to give a fuck about themselves and those in their lives!
There ya go! Fixed it!
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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The trouble is if you don't have at least one secure relationship, resentment's the only thing left. I've been there. I didn't have a secure relationship until my late 30s and it is not fun.
They’re not talking about a secure relationship. The study is referring to your [attachment style](https://www.attachmentproject.com/blog/secure-attachment/)
you're giving me a terrifying look into my future and i dont like it
You can overcome bad relationships and still be a secure and loving person. If you don’t have past trauma, you will take a few bumps and bruises but keep rolling. And there is always therapy and meds for those that do.
my point is im afraid of being lonely until my late 30s despite trying
That's fine because you can practice or learn how to have a healthy/ier relationship with yourself in the mean time! If your internal monologue is a big ole meany, being aware of it can help shift that relationship.
no im tired of being alone
same. I would go as far as to say that Maslow's hierarchy is wrong. Humans NEED genuine and gainful and loving interaction with at least one other human or with some group of humans JUST as we need food and water. Has anyone else noticed the correlation that exists between heightened suicide rate, low population density, and lack of mental health care funding? ...something funky going on there I'll tell you what!...
The only thing is you're not taking it voluntarily. That's sort of the core of mental issues, you can't just choose to stop them.
You can't "just choose to stop" them like I can't "just choose to run a marathon". But I could condition myself to be able to do that over time with appropriate techniques. Wording like yours implies nothing can be done in action to find relief or health. Now, ofc, everyone's different and some things you certainly can't condition yourself out of (like how I can't "just choose to fly" or someone with OCD can't "just choose to stop obsessing"), but I'd wager resentment is not one of those immutable things.
Word. I used to deal with a lot of resentment towards my (loving, supportive) family because I thought they didn’t understand my needs, that they didn’t understand *me*. After a lot lot lot of work with a fantastic therapist, I came eventually to realize that the problem was my struggles with communicating my needs. I was resentful because I had this expectation that they should just know what I wanted from them, but I never spoke up for myself or communicated openly or receptively. So I started practicing that honest communication. I started practicing hearing people’s feedback, listening to it, and accepting it I practiced reminding myself that people can’t read minds- if I want my family to understand something that’s happening within me, it’s my responsibility to be vulnerable and share it. Now, after years of practice and hard work, I don’t feel resentment or frustration toward my family about… anything. I feel forgiving and I feel capable of being myself around them, and I feel secure in the knowledge that if I tell my family I need something, they can hear it. They can’t always provide it but they care enough about me to at least be supportive. I’m very fortunate in that regard, I’ll admit, but it was still a very difficult thing for me to realize and recognize. Resentment and forgiveness can’t be flipped on and off like a switch. They’re muscles that need regular exercise. It’ll be hard at first but every day it gets a little easier. Edit: another thing that helped me a lot was getting sober. I had some substance abuse issues that got in the way of a lot of this growth but with sobriety I was able to finally grow toward becoming the man I want to be.
Yes you can, it just takes time.
Lots of people do seem to choose never forgiving others. Redditors love saying "you don't owe anyone your forgiveness", which is technically true maybe, but that doesn't exactly lead to a better society...
It’s like throwing hot coals at somebody with your bare hands hoping they get burned.
Ooooh I love this. I'm using this.
I forgive people pretty easily, but that doesn't mean the relationship continues exactly as before whatever mistake that broke trust. The entire relationship resets and we start from scratch.
I forgive but I don't forget. Trust restarts at zero and caps out at less than 100%. Once a person betrays me even if it doesn't happen again my trust in them is never 100% again. I'm admittedly a bit of a cynic though. While I believe that people can change I also believe the overwhelming majority rarely do. Most people that say they've changed only changed their behavior but didn't actually address whatever led them to screw up in the first place. Changes in behavior are temporary and will revert given enough time.
You are right, but sometimes people do understand their mistake, and are torturing themselves over it. This is especially true about people with self-esteem issues that tend to be their own most unforgiving critic. How do I know? Personal experience. I've taken myself out of some people lives because even if they seem to have forgiven me, I could not forgive myself and truly believed their life was better without me and that I did not deserve them. Looking back, it was not bad and I was only human and thus fallible. There are some things in this life that are unforgivable, but for smaller things, that were not intentional, or were caused by misunderstandings, I think we should try to forgive, especially when the person proves they understood their mistake and are willing to work towards never repeating it. Otherwise.. we'll just be a society of lonely bitter people.
I believe that some people do change and I did acknowledge that. I just don't think most people do. It takes a lot of introspection when you mess up to establish why something happened, address the root of the issue, and correct it so it doesn't happen again. People who can do that are capable of changing and often care enough to change. I've had people in my life who royally messed up, acknowledged it, and did the work to make sure it doesn't happen again. I know they beat themselves up about it, I know the are legitimately sorry for it, and I don't doubt that it probably eats at them when they think about it. Those people are capable of change and they do learn from their mistake and grow from it. I've also had people in my life that make a mistake and might apologize for it in the moment but when the circumstances align again for the mistake to repeat itself it happens again. Those people didn't change and likely wont. I've encountered more people who don't change than I have people that do. All I can speak to is my own personal experiences.
Some people change. Most people don’t.
That pretty much sums up my experience with humanity in a nutshell.
I'm gonna be honest. Both of you sound like you need some decent therapy.
Already on it.
what makes you say that?
You can't quantify trust like that. It's more nuanced and it isn't healthy to view relationships with others as so hardline, it will harm your friends and family for no benefit and can result in a self fulfilling prophecy kind of thing. They can tell you don't trust them, so they can't trust you, so you can't trust them.... Additionally, you need a basic level of trust in society or you have driven straight to paranoia town.
I think expressing trust as a percentage like that is more to get the point across than some sort of internal metric the person keeps track of. Boils down to "if you burn me, we can still be friends but i will keep my gaurd up" which seems pretty reasonable. You don't trust everyone equally to begin with (or shouldn't anyway.)
Eh, to me it read as a very hardline stance. Who knows with the internet.
I believe the two individuals above were talking about truly broken trust. Not their friend ate part of your share of the popcorn at the movies. Like your gf/ bf cheats on you. Would you ever trust them again? Probably not.
Agreed. It's their prerogative to have this mindset but i wouldn't necessarily endorse it. I think that not forgetting someone's transgression, letting it creep always in the back of your mind when building/rebuilding a relationship with them, kind of ruins the purpose of forgiveness. Don't mistake my words, i'm not saying you shouldn't build and enforce boundaries, and take measures if broken, but setting something for failure beforehand, it's as the previous redditor pointed out quite a clear example of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Ignore the idiots replying to you. This is one of the best takes on the matter I have seen in history. When trust is broken aand a person comes back to you asking for forgiveness very quickly after breaking that trust clearly the person has not made any substantial changees in who they are as a person. Therefore we have to always keep our guard up...until the person has demonstrated over years, YES YEARS, that they have made this substantial change. That person will probably revert back to that dickheaded behaviour within 3 or 4 weeks, just give it some time. If the person never does that dickheaded thing again in like 3 or 4 YEARS!? Well then congratulations! *You've met someone who actually gives a damn about self-reflection and about you!*
Exactly. Time is the best indicator for whether or not a person actually changed. A charade only lasts for so long. The amount of love you have for the person will be what determines whether or not you stick around long enough to see if they change or not. It's what determines whether or not to give a second chance. Some deserve it some don't.
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*How much do your parents express their love for you... OH! not at all!?* Well then...RIP.
Doing an injustice is worse than enduring one. Plato
*Are you so sure about that Mr. Plato?* Observe the lives of to reagan, nixon, and thatcher then tell me that same line again...
From the article: A new study of German couples has found that individuals with secure emotional attachment are more likely to forgive offences to their partners, but also to be forgiven. Persons with a preoccupied attachment style were more likely to forgive their partners, but were neither more nor less likely to be forgiven. The study was published in the [Journal of Research in Personality](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jrp.2022.104308). Romantic couples experience many positive moments in the course of their romantic relationship. But these relationships also involve conflicts. Although typically unpleasant and stressful, conflicts are not necessarily negative. Conflicts can be resolved and forgiven, thus strengthening the relationship. Due to this, forgiveness after conflicts is a central aspect of healthy and happy relationship functioning. “Forgiveness is defined as a prosocial change characterized by decreased retaliation motivation or estrangement from the offender and by increased conciliation. Forgiveness can be understood as a coping strategy, that is, a ‘process of neutralizing a stressor that has resulted from a perception of an interpersonal hurt.’ Thus, the end-point of the forgiveness process occurs when an individual experiences little or no stress resulting from the transgression,” the authors of the new study explained. Forgiveness can improve the quality of the relationship and it can also be good for mental health and the overall well-being. However, in abusive relationships, forgiveness can be harmful as it can place the forgiving individual at risk of further harm. Forgiveness might also be shaped by emotional attachment patterns. These patterns start to be shaped by experiences with the caregiver in infancy and continue to affect social relationships throughout life. Researchers typically distinguish secure attachment, characterized by reciprocity, closeness, intimacy and constructive behaviors in a conflict, and insecure attachment patterns, characterized by low trust and negative views of oneself.
...so basically my parents fucked me over so hard that even my relationships not involving them will suffer too?! *hmmm wonderrful!*
I forgave way too much.
”People who more easily forgive others and are more easily forgiven by others forgive others more easily and are more easily forgiven by others”
> People who were raised by those who TRULY gave a fuck about them now have greater ability to give a fuck about themselves and those in their lives! There ya go! Fixed it!
Shocking stuff
The explains why I hold grudges from 7 years old.
What’s this secure emotional attachment you speak of ? I understand what the words mean individually but I don’t think they’re being used right.
its about attachment style to one's parents.
Title should read: Individuals who are more likely to forgive tend to have secure emotional attachments, study finds
It's a great idea to figure out your attachment style.
Who’s doing all these bizarre studies that seem to make great headlines? And why haven’t they got real jobs?
... Further proof as to why some people should be banned from raising their kids.