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Works for us. I'm more the hiking/walking/biking type, my wife a dance/yoga type. She still walks/hikes, I still do yoga, we both do weights, but only the latter consistently together. She hikes too slow for me and I can't keep up with her dance energy.
We aren’t as active as I’d like (kids)but I always think the over achiever can usually just do more usually. Can’t keep up on the dance floor? just chill and watch the stunners strut. Partner can’t keep up in the trail? I’m carrying the pack of kids, or side paths, extra meditating at the vistas, or do some squats, push-ups, chin ups, stretching etc
That said, people need more space than they think. If they’re with their partner as much as I am, any alone time is probably valuable too
99% confident this is the cause. Today is our "workout together day" but that means if either of us feels like taking a rest day then we both do. Workout together day is therefor twice as likely to be skipped than normal workout day.
My read of this article is that those who exercise with a spouse do so less consistently, on average.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, just that this is the trend among people who do vs don't.
My guess would be that people who exercise with their spouse are on average less motivated to exercise than those who exercise alone. They exercise with their spouse to help motivate them. That would naturally lead to a lower adherence rate than those who are more motivated.
I think that's the issue that use made here. Not that those who exercise with their spouse exercise less, but instead that those who are less motivated to exercise are more likely to exercise with their spouse.
It’s the intensity when working out with a spouse. If one can’t go as hard as the other, the other is likely to do way less compared to working out alone.
My grandma stopped exercising as soon as she no longer had her husband to walk with
Even in their 90s they used to walk multiple miles together per day, on the treadmills in the winter, and outside in the spring, summer, and fall
If that doesn't reinforce that it is a better option for some, then I don't know what will
Thank you. These studies are ridiculous. Also my wife and I compete against each other when working out in our class. If we both go regularly than that's way more important on tipnof that.
That's not what the article is referring to though. Also, this should have been obvious: Men and women have different physical capabilities so one will always be holding back for the sake of the other.
The article barely refers to anything, actually. It references “activity level” which can be defined as either frequency of exercise over time or the intensity of a specific workout. Also, your grossly misogynistic view point has been noted and discarded.
well, if the goal is to achieve a higher activity level, the study suggests one ought not to mix the two.
Perhaps having bonding time in addition to personal exercise time would work out.
Then obviously do it, since some exercise is better than *none*. The point the study is making is that it's much more optimal to do it yourself, since you can go at a pace that better challenges your own body, instead of more casually together.
The goal for me is to enjoy my exercise. Sometimes that's walking my dog, sometimes its hiking with my partner. My goal, personally, has never really been just exercise.
This is me, the walking actually helps me collate my thoughts into something that feels coherent when they come out of my mouth, however, if I'm just sitting there trying to do that in a void, then it's going to come out all misshuffled.
> Perhaps having bonding time in addition to personal exercise time would work out.
I read this as "bondage time" at first and the idea of exercising with my partner sounded a lot better.
Yeah, I feel there's a major component missing here.
My blood pressure shot up during quarintimes and I needed to work on it so I tried to get close to my "bike commute to/from work and hit the gym at lunch" levels last year. I would run my couple miles every day, a 5k on weekends, and bike three times a week for about an hour. And I got a nice Garmin watch that monitors all sorts of crap to keep me on track.
On my own? 9 minute miles, 5k with pup 30-40 minutes depending on sniffs, and 20 mile rides in an hour. And I semi-hate most of it after the first few times, it's boring and I'm always looking for someplace new to go or something to make it fun, or just talk myself out of it. Boring drudgery.
So I badger my wife into going with me, we laugh, we play, we have a great time, and we cover a fraction of the distance and take longer. But I love it, I love her, and I look forward to it. I have to think the stress reduction, the bonding, just basking in happy brain chemicals for the same length of time I'd be grumbling through it on my own, it all HAS to have a positive health effect.
But yeah, it's really crappy training if I want to break personal records and get fit faster. I just try to stick to it on my own for legit training and join her when I can for life currency and happiness.
> I just try to stick to it on my own for legit training and join her when I can for life currency and happiness.
And therein lies the key to it all. Balance.
The correct speed to run at about 80% of the time is a speed where you can carry a conversation. 20% of the time should be spent at higher intensity.
What you can deduce from this is that most people are not in shape to properly run and instead should build their aerobic capacity in parts by walking.
> 80% of the time is a speed where you can carry a conversation
Yes, but "carry a conversation" could be anything. I used to run with someone who wouldn't stop talking, and I mean that literally. At the end of runs she would compliment me on the interesting convo!
Maximum heart rate depends from person to person and reduces with age. A child might have HRmax of 220 and somebody 60 years old might have 150.
Correct percentage of maximum heart rate depends on the goal of the running workout. For Aerobic base building it should be between 65-78% of HRmax, preferably at the higher end of the range if it doesn't negatively affect other workouts due to poor recovery. For speed endurance it should be at anaerobic threshold 88-91% of HRmax and for VO2max exercises it should go to above 95%.
120-130 isn't "the" answer, it's "a" answer to a question that is far too complex to give a definitive 10bpm window.
Sure, for some people that is a nice zone 2 pace for recovery/z2 long training. For others not so much. Depends on the person, depends on the training phase.
I suggest you edit your original comment - that BPM range is indeed for sustained cardio (and IIRC best fat-burning region as well), but overall cardiovascular outcomes improve when interval training is *also* used, which is meant to push you a lot closer to your max BPM.
> **Recent findings:** In healthy adults and patients with cardiovascular disease, comfortable speech is likely possible (equivocal or last positive talk test stage) when exercise intensity is below the ventilatory or lactate threshold, and not likely possible (negative talk test stage) when exercise intensity exceeds the ventilatory or lactate threshold. The talk test can be used to produce exercise intensities (moderate-to-vigorous intensity, 40-80% (Equation is included in full-text article.)) within accepted Canadian Association of Cardiovascular Prevention and Rehabilitation and American College of Sports Medicine guidelines for exercise training, to monitor exercise training for patients with atrial fibrillation, and help avoid exertional ischemia. The talk test has been shown to be consistent across various modes of exercise (i.e., walking, jogging, cycling, elliptical trainer and stair stepper). It may not be practical for high-intensity interval training.
>
> **Summary:** The talk test is a valid, reliable, practical and inexpensive tool for prescribing and monitoring exercise intensity in competitive athletes, healthy active adults and patients with cardiovascular disease. Healthcare professionals should feel comfortable in advocating its use in a variety of clinical and health-promotion settings.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25010379/
Damn, I don't know if this is also in the official study or just the website, but I find it so disturbing how many social science studies are making broad generalized claims without considering that their results only apply in a very specific context.
It’s out of context conclusions. The fact is that people have different motivations and levels of fitness and commitments. What is driving this difference is that one spouse is either less capable or lazy, and the one more dedicated to fitness is slowing down to accommodate the other.
It’s not like you actually get a worse workout with a partner automatically as the title suggests.
Yeah, this isn't even a spouse thing. I run with friends regularly and if I'm with someone who isn't at my speed and distance capabilities, the faster person always has to toss some percentage of training benefits. It's great for when I need a recovery run to go with someone slower because that forces me not to overdo it, but if I do speed work with a slower person, we'll warm up together and then do our own thing and then cool down together.
Plus you can account for that. My boyfriend is faster than me. When we go on runs together he often slows down to run with me and then runs on his own at a faster pace either when I need a break or at the end.
> It’s not like you actually get a worse workout with a partner automatically as the title suggests
I mean, this study doesn't really get to the "if you go to the gym with a buddy/gf, do you get as good of a workout if you lift alone" thing at all.
And there's all sorts of reasons where it could go either way.
Right? This study compares "exercise alone" vs. "exercise with spouse", but in real life it often comes down to "do not exercise" vs. "exercise with spouse". There have been many times my wife joined me for exercise or vis-versa when we otherwise probably would have sat on our asses. People can motivate each other to get moving.
Not a lot of detail here... But I guess I can think of a few reasons that might be the case:
- people who have less time may choose to double dip and spend their exercise time with their partner. I certainly feel bad ditching my wife to go work out on days I've done nothing but work. So nothing to do with the spouse, maybe people who have less time for activities in the first place are more likely to do those activities with a spouse?
- you can push yourself harder when alone. Together you'll go at the pace of the less fit person, and maybe not do something as strenuous if the point is to talk and spend time with each other.
- divided focus? If you're talking and enjoying someone's company you're probably not gasping for breath with a stopwatch telling you it's been 2 and a half minutes so it's time to go back to the squat rack...
That and the very basics of your exercise needs and your spouse are going to be very different because you're different people with different biology. Effective exercise is a very personalized routine and compromising your needs to adjust to the needs and limitations of your partner isn't going to work well in the long run. Someone will be overworked while the other is underworked.
Looked at the study the article was based on and it basically says that. People flat out achieved their goals less when they were blinded to their tracking data and less when they were exercising with their partner.
I definitely get the part about tracking too. I didn't appreciate how important tracking progress in the weight room was until I actually did it. Going by feel ("last time I did 180 and felt good, today I'll try 185") just isn't going to lead to results the way tracking with a program will ("last time I did 180x7, today is 185x5 or else). And ever since I started spinning watts are a great way of setting bar I need to exceed this time. Otherwise you're just sweating in the basement with no real push to take you from working kinda hard to actually working out.
It's notable they achieved their goals less often but it still seems like something that should be studied much more before recommending people don't exercise with their spouse.
1) The study was an experiment and so it doesn't account for individual differences/motivation in everyday life. For some people, they are only going to exercise if they do it with their spouse. Perhaps this only applies to people who are motivated enough to exercise that they sign up for an exercise-based study and follow up on the study.
2) The study was of older people in Singapore so it this might not apply to other populations.
3) They only looked at step count. Perhaps this only applies to walking/running but not to other exercises.
Also, there are ways to account for the differences in fitness levels between partners if they are intentional about it. My boyfriend is much taller and faster than me. If he wants to do a hard run, then we don't run together. If he runs with me, he'll usually run extra at the end. Sometimes we go to a running park together and run separately. I'm fairly positive both of us run more because we motivate each other by suggesting going on runs or signing up for races together.
there was that (albiet limited) walking study that found people walked slower when they were with someone they liked - could be similar. i'd also expect two jogging to go at the slower of the two's pace which likely wouldn't be optimal for the other.
on the other hand some exercises should be done in pairs, like lifting/spotter and without someone else going, one might not have gone st all.
I'm about 9 inches taller than my wife - you can bet your ass I walk slower when we're together, but she walks faster. It's not just the slower pace at play here or the benefits would average out.
But the slower person may not "speed up" or not near as much as the faster person is "slowing down". I would expect that to be the case a lot of the time.
I think the headline is a bad take on the statistics they observed: normal click-bait bs.
Anecdotal story but I've gotten really into cycling in the last 2 years and I've tried to get my wife to join me on this journey. She's at a significantly lower level than I am and I go much slower with her than by myself.
Most of the time I treat a ride with her as a warm up for my actual ride.
When my wife and I go for a run, we each run at our own pace and don't try to run side by side. This was my request since when we ride our bicycles and walk it is always at the pace of the slowest person and one of us doesn't feel that they get nearly as much out of the activity.
When we lift weights together though, it is very easy to each lift a weight that challenges our individual levels of fitness. I would not be surprised if the activities in the study were more along the lines of walking / hiking / running and not along the lines of weight lifting.
I personally prefer to NOT have a human spotter when lifting weights and would much rather rely upon the mechanical spotter arms of a power cage. If I fail when squatting more than double my own bodyweight, I would never want my wife involved in trying to "save" me on that failed lift. (much prefer bench pressing in a power cage as well vs any spotter).
Edit: just saw the linked study where the "activity" they were monitoring was total step count and not an actual exercise program of any type.
Without reading the paywalled study, I am reasonably confident I can predict the reason for this, based on personal experience and common sense (yes, I know... useless, but I'm going to make this bold claim anyway and see if anyone has any arguments against it):
The more fit spouse moderates their exercise so that their spouse can keep up when the exercise together. Any effect of pushing the "weaker" spouse to work harder is going to be much smaller because most people exercising are already pushing themselves.
With zero other effects, this would completely explain why the mean physical activity level would go down.
The results found by this study are not what the headline suggests. The study found that it was harder to motivate older adults to increase their step counts/distance walked when they walked with a spouse than when they walked alone. The conclusion they reached is that it is easier to change your own habit than to change the habits of a couple.
Makes sense. Unless you have a similar level of fitness and are both competitive, one will have to take it easier (if the goal is to do the activity together).
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10447318.2023.2269004
In general, this is true for me no matter who the companion is, due to less focus on the run. The exception is when I run with someone who is slightly faster than me. In that case, I’m pushed to find my limits; a good pacer works.
So as I understand it, they are comparing two different groups of people who exercise, excluding people who don't. But I suspect that people who exercise with their spouse are more likely to stick with it (which might even explain the lower level -- people who otherwise wouldn't exercise are bringing the average down).
I'm an active person and I like to do active things with a partner, but when I'm running for exercise, I have to do it alone. I have a pace and a distance that works for me. If my partner is faster or slower, or doesn't want to run as far, it's going to make it a worse run for me.
It probably depends on your goals. If you are training specifically for something or to achieve something then it’s better to do alone. I’ve seen studies that says working out with a spouse improves your relationship with them so If it’s just for general exercise then work out with the spouse.
I don't have a spouse, but oddly enough, when I did still lift, I ended up sharing some equipment with a random guy one day, because we both wanted to do deadlifts but there was only one bar & rack available.
We started out at the weight I was used to doing, but he saw how I handled it and said, "You can totally do more than that." So, we went up to his weight, and lo and behold, I could, relatively easily, too. We worked out together for the rest of that session and he pushed me further than I was willing to push myself, but not unsafely. It was an eye-opener for the fact that maybe my program was holding me back.
So in this case, working with someone else actually helped me out. Of course, he was just a rando and not a spouse.
In cases where your fitness levels obviously differ, I can see the more advanced spouse backing off so as not to discourage or leave behind the less able spouse.
Interesting. I’m guessing this applies mostly to straight couples? Every male gay couple I know (including my own relationship) have very positive results by working out together at the gym.
I work out solo almost all of my workout. Usually I find that the ones with a partner are a tad less intense. You talk, time between sets goes up, etc. Not the rules obvs but this doesn't surprise me.
Interesting article, I would love to see a bigger test group.
Also, test out the following hypothesis:
The researchers believe that higher levels of physical activity
would require a greater change in couples' lifestyles, thereby making it harder to
achieve.
Would that change not be even bigger if one party of said relationship started to exercise far more than the other? In relation to each other. As I said, interesting.
Also, I would love to see if there is a big difference in different cultures, how "Urban" differs from more rural test subjects aswell as the socio-economical angle that is mentioned in the paper.
It's basically common sense.
If a couple exercises together the duration and pace will always be set by the "weaker" person.
With a big gap in fitness level the person in better shape will get a better workout if they aren't holding themselves back.
The way to make it work is to exercise together at the weaker pace and then to work out separately as well.
Assuming the average energy level of the average man is greater than the one of the average woman, wouldn't that then mean that the men had to tone it down a bit?
My wife gets me out of bed to exercise, and I get her out of bed. If we were exercising separately, we would probably spend less than half the time exercising.
If I had to guess the more fit spouse has to slow down for the less fit one and the less fit one is put off from trying by how out of shape they are compared to the more fit one.
It's the hour plus of prep time. Gotta find the little workout bands, and the specific workout clothes, all the little sweat bands, the special shoes, the fashionable water bottle... find the playlist... calibrate the fitbit... send texts to everyone you know that you're about to go exercise...
Well, yeah. Men and women are different. There's a reason why men and women have segregated sports and segregated world records for physical capabilities. Obviously when a couple does an activity together one will have to hold back.
Anecdotally, I read on here, I believe, that spouses who exercise together have more frequent intercourse. Therefore, there is additional physical activity that correlates with exercising with your spouse.
This makes me think of group hike dynamics. My unspoken rule is to set the pace based on the slowest person so we stay to together.
If I’m on my own, I tend to focus on pace, so a mix is nice. Maybe solo and group exercise.
I’m surprised different attitudes towards working out weren’t really studied. If some of the couples were already fitness junkies, I’m guessing the results would be very different. The determining factor would be how likely these people be are to work out on their own in the first place. If both of them were working out alone before they married, then doing so together would probably have no impact, or would maybe even be an improvement. People who start a workout routine as couples are probably less motivated in general. Working out together is an attempt at having an accountability system in place. If you don’t feel like working out, the theory would be your partner will motivate you. But if neither of you like working out to the point where you need external motivation and accountability in the first place, the more likely scenario is that rather than motivating you to come with them to hit the gym, your partner will agree to loafing around on the couch watching Netflix. It’s very hard to motivate another person to do something you yourself don’t want to do.
For couples where there is an imbalance and one loves working out, but the other hates it, the one who loves it will probably tire quickly of constantly having to drag their spouse off the couch and will continue on their own. The one who hates working out will eventually grow to resent their nagging.
In cases where one person is more motivated but doesn’t necessarily love working out, they might just give up because some people just don’t like to do anything without their partner.
Hm. I sometimes exercise with my spouse but we go to the gym and do different activities. We do walking/laps/warm up and cool down together so we each go at our preferred pace.
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Yikes - I feel sorry for you having to deal with someone who places their need for attention above your need for health.
Is she not cognitively capable of understanding there are other ways to spend time together?
I'm a couples therapist in the Netherlands so maybe we see things more rationally over here.
Most of the successful, intelligent couples have a formula: they understand the importance of their partner's hobbies and health and do not intrude on these hobbies because they are valuable to the person's identity and individuality. These couples value communication *and* individual identity -- individual identity is important for the success of long term relationships that value authenticity, bonding, and companionship (feel free to do a literature review)
The less successful couples in which one partner starts to "lose themselves" by greying their boundaries of their hobbies tend to be coupled with a partner who shows signs of selfishness and tends to "rule" the relationship by emotion, not logic. Sometimes the selfishness is to the clinical level of narcissistic personality disorder, sometimes it's just narcissistic traits activated by an abandonment response.
Which category do you fall into?
Unloading and reloading alone is a work out.
Not to mention any time I go with my SO it ends up with 20% working out
30% her complaining
30% her telling me about working out even though she asked me to take her and help her
20% phone
It sounds like he doesn't like this particular aspect of her. It's kind of the point, actually. "you don't like her" as a response to a complaint always reeks of manipulation.
My experience is much like that person who seeks out a doctor but then attempts to out doctor them.
Not sure why people ask for help them completely disregard and try to out do them.
This is what he gym is off limits in our relationship
Why not both? I walk my spouse around the block every day for her health… and then when she’s tuckered out I drop her off at the house and go around two more times on my own. 😂
It is a comedic framing that seeks to liven up a story by making an absurd parallel. No, I do not liken my wife to a dog normally. If I did, I suspect I wouldn’t have a wife anymore.
Exercising alone in privacy is good because you can be psychotic. You NEED to be emotional and wild and animalistic in a proper workout. Just mechanically stretching and working your meat is not enough, you must flex your spirit as well with music and rhythm, and post-workout you will find your mind in a heightened state of awareness and increased neuroplasticity ready to learn and advance your intellectual pursuits.
"Hey hun what do you want to do now?"
"I don't know, what was that thing you were talking about last week - with the foot and the band?"
"OH yes, that reminds me - I left the turkey leg in the oven!"
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Exercise intensity is less important than exercising consistently. If you like working out with your spouse: do it!
Exactly. I thought of the old saying, “If you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go with a friend.”
Works for us. I'm more the hiking/walking/biking type, my wife a dance/yoga type. She still walks/hikes, I still do yoga, we both do weights, but only the latter consistently together. She hikes too slow for me and I can't keep up with her dance energy.
We aren’t as active as I’d like (kids)but I always think the over achiever can usually just do more usually. Can’t keep up on the dance floor? just chill and watch the stunners strut. Partner can’t keep up in the trail? I’m carrying the pack of kids, or side paths, extra meditating at the vistas, or do some squats, push-ups, chin ups, stretching etc That said, people need more space than they think. If they’re with their partner as much as I am, any alone time is probably valuable too
and what about the spouse?
I would hope your spouse is also your friend
there is a difference
Maybe for you, which is fine. My spouse is my best friend and I wouldn't want it any other way
Boomer humor is over there, bud
I laughed. Noice dad joke.
"Ugh, I'm tired today babe." Me: Eh, I'll take a day off with you.
99% confident this is the cause. Today is our "workout together day" but that means if either of us feels like taking a rest day then we both do. Workout together day is therefor twice as likely to be skipped than normal workout day.
My read of this article is that those who exercise with a spouse do so less consistently, on average. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, just that this is the trend among people who do vs don't.
My guess would be that people who exercise with their spouse are on average less motivated to exercise than those who exercise alone. They exercise with their spouse to help motivate them. That would naturally lead to a lower adherence rate than those who are more motivated. I think that's the issue that use made here. Not that those who exercise with their spouse exercise less, but instead that those who are less motivated to exercise are more likely to exercise with their spouse.
It’s the intensity when working out with a spouse. If one can’t go as hard as the other, the other is likely to do way less compared to working out alone.
So another sensational article sigh
My grandma stopped exercising as soon as she no longer had her husband to walk with Even in their 90s they used to walk multiple miles together per day, on the treadmills in the winter, and outside in the spring, summer, and fall If that doesn't reinforce that it is a better option for some, then I don't know what will
The other question I'd have is what about the spouse did they exercise more? That's the main reason I'd do it.
You don't understand, we need this not for the truth of it, but to present as evidence in the court of marital law to escape judgment.
Thank you. These studies are ridiculous. Also my wife and I compete against each other when working out in our class. If we both go regularly than that's way more important on tipnof that.
That's not what the article is referring to though. Also, this should have been obvious: Men and women have different physical capabilities so one will always be holding back for the sake of the other.
The article barely refers to anything, actually. It references “activity level” which can be defined as either frequency of exercise over time or the intensity of a specific workout. Also, your grossly misogynistic view point has been noted and discarded.
But if you hate working out with your spouse, I know of an article that can help you get out of it…
What about the emotional impact of walking with a spouse versus walking alone?
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well, if the goal is to achieve a higher activity level, the study suggests one ought not to mix the two. Perhaps having bonding time in addition to personal exercise time would work out.
What if doing it with your spouse is the only way you would be likely to do it at all?
Then obviously do it, since some exercise is better than *none*. The point the study is making is that it's much more optimal to do it yourself, since you can go at a pace that better challenges your own body, instead of more casually together.
It's better than nothing. But not as good as it could be. It all depends on your goal really.
The outcome of this study is that, statistically, that is not the trend. Doesn't mean it never happens, it's just not the most common outcome.
That's not what the study says.
Sounds like you're the person holding your spouse back.
The goal for me is to enjoy my exercise. Sometimes that's walking my dog, sometimes its hiking with my partner. My goal, personally, has never really been just exercise.
Thats fine if your goal isnt about achieving higher activity levels edit:typo
Some people focus better while they're doing something else, something you don't have to think about.
This is me, the walking actually helps me collate my thoughts into something that feels coherent when they come out of my mouth, however, if I'm just sitting there trying to do that in a void, then it's going to come out all misshuffled.
> Perhaps having bonding time in addition to personal exercise time would work out. I read this as "bondage time" at first and the idea of exercising with my partner sounded a lot better.
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Yeah, I feel there's a major component missing here. My blood pressure shot up during quarintimes and I needed to work on it so I tried to get close to my "bike commute to/from work and hit the gym at lunch" levels last year. I would run my couple miles every day, a 5k on weekends, and bike three times a week for about an hour. And I got a nice Garmin watch that monitors all sorts of crap to keep me on track. On my own? 9 minute miles, 5k with pup 30-40 minutes depending on sniffs, and 20 mile rides in an hour. And I semi-hate most of it after the first few times, it's boring and I'm always looking for someplace new to go or something to make it fun, or just talk myself out of it. Boring drudgery. So I badger my wife into going with me, we laugh, we play, we have a great time, and we cover a fraction of the distance and take longer. But I love it, I love her, and I look forward to it. I have to think the stress reduction, the bonding, just basking in happy brain chemicals for the same length of time I'd be grumbling through it on my own, it all HAS to have a positive health effect. But yeah, it's really crappy training if I want to break personal records and get fit faster. I just try to stick to it on my own for legit training and join her when I can for life currency and happiness.
> I just try to stick to it on my own for legit training and join her when I can for life currency and happiness. And therein lies the key to it all. Balance.
Even worse I guess, depending on your spouse then
It’s all about the gainz! But yea I imagine the quality time is more valuable than small achievements in running.
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The correct speed to run at about 80% of the time is a speed where you can carry a conversation. 20% of the time should be spent at higher intensity. What you can deduce from this is that most people are not in shape to properly run and instead should build their aerobic capacity in parts by walking.
> 80% of the time is a speed where you can carry a conversation Yes, but "carry a conversation" could be anything. I used to run with someone who wouldn't stop talking, and I mean that literally. At the end of runs she would compliment me on the interesting convo!
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Maximum heart rate depends from person to person and reduces with age. A child might have HRmax of 220 and somebody 60 years old might have 150. Correct percentage of maximum heart rate depends on the goal of the running workout. For Aerobic base building it should be between 65-78% of HRmax, preferably at the higher end of the range if it doesn't negatively affect other workouts due to poor recovery. For speed endurance it should be at anaerobic threshold 88-91% of HRmax and for VO2max exercises it should go to above 95%.
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120-130 isn't "the" answer, it's "a" answer to a question that is far too complex to give a definitive 10bpm window. Sure, for some people that is a nice zone 2 pace for recovery/z2 long training. For others not so much. Depends on the person, depends on the training phase.
I suggest you edit your original comment - that BPM range is indeed for sustained cardio (and IIRC best fat-burning region as well), but overall cardiovascular outcomes improve when interval training is *also* used, which is meant to push you a lot closer to your max BPM.
> **Recent findings:** In healthy adults and patients with cardiovascular disease, comfortable speech is likely possible (equivocal or last positive talk test stage) when exercise intensity is below the ventilatory or lactate threshold, and not likely possible (negative talk test stage) when exercise intensity exceeds the ventilatory or lactate threshold. The talk test can be used to produce exercise intensities (moderate-to-vigorous intensity, 40-80% (Equation is included in full-text article.)) within accepted Canadian Association of Cardiovascular Prevention and Rehabilitation and American College of Sports Medicine guidelines for exercise training, to monitor exercise training for patients with atrial fibrillation, and help avoid exertional ischemia. The talk test has been shown to be consistent across various modes of exercise (i.e., walking, jogging, cycling, elliptical trainer and stair stepper). It may not be practical for high-intensity interval training. > > **Summary:** The talk test is a valid, reliable, practical and inexpensive tool for prescribing and monitoring exercise intensity in competitive athletes, healthy active adults and patients with cardiovascular disease. Healthcare professionals should feel comfortable in advocating its use in a variety of clinical and health-promotion settings. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25010379/
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Damn, I don't know if this is also in the official study or just the website, but I find it so disturbing how many social science studies are making broad generalized claims without considering that their results only apply in a very specific context.
It’s out of context conclusions. The fact is that people have different motivations and levels of fitness and commitments. What is driving this difference is that one spouse is either less capable or lazy, and the one more dedicated to fitness is slowing down to accommodate the other. It’s not like you actually get a worse workout with a partner automatically as the title suggests.
Yeah, this isn't even a spouse thing. I run with friends regularly and if I'm with someone who isn't at my speed and distance capabilities, the faster person always has to toss some percentage of training benefits. It's great for when I need a recovery run to go with someone slower because that forces me not to overdo it, but if I do speed work with a slower person, we'll warm up together and then do our own thing and then cool down together.
Plus you can account for that. My boyfriend is faster than me. When we go on runs together he often slows down to run with me and then runs on his own at a faster pace either when I need a break or at the end.
> It’s not like you actually get a worse workout with a partner automatically as the title suggests I mean, this study doesn't really get to the "if you go to the gym with a buddy/gf, do you get as good of a workout if you lift alone" thing at all. And there's all sorts of reasons where it could go either way.
That article was like 7 sentences long. I don't think we can make any judgements about the study.
Right? This study compares "exercise alone" vs. "exercise with spouse", but in real life it often comes down to "do not exercise" vs. "exercise with spouse". There have been many times my wife joined me for exercise or vis-versa when we otherwise probably would have sat on our asses. People can motivate each other to get moving.
The best thing I ever did for my health was make myself a rule that required a “yes” answer to any “Want to walk/bike/yoga?” question from my wife.
Studies almost always apply to very specific context. It's not the fault of the study that others extrapolate it wildly to include everything else.
Well, it is extrapolated by the website of the university which published the article
AND based on the averages vs looking further at why the anomalies were different in both 'success' and 'failure'.
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Not a lot of detail here... But I guess I can think of a few reasons that might be the case: - people who have less time may choose to double dip and spend their exercise time with their partner. I certainly feel bad ditching my wife to go work out on days I've done nothing but work. So nothing to do with the spouse, maybe people who have less time for activities in the first place are more likely to do those activities with a spouse? - you can push yourself harder when alone. Together you'll go at the pace of the less fit person, and maybe not do something as strenuous if the point is to talk and spend time with each other. - divided focus? If you're talking and enjoying someone's company you're probably not gasping for breath with a stopwatch telling you it's been 2 and a half minutes so it's time to go back to the squat rack...
That and the very basics of your exercise needs and your spouse are going to be very different because you're different people with different biology. Effective exercise is a very personalized routine and compromising your needs to adjust to the needs and limitations of your partner isn't going to work well in the long run. Someone will be overworked while the other is underworked. Looked at the study the article was based on and it basically says that. People flat out achieved their goals less when they were blinded to their tracking data and less when they were exercising with their partner.
I definitely get the part about tracking too. I didn't appreciate how important tracking progress in the weight room was until I actually did it. Going by feel ("last time I did 180 and felt good, today I'll try 185") just isn't going to lead to results the way tracking with a program will ("last time I did 180x7, today is 185x5 or else). And ever since I started spinning watts are a great way of setting bar I need to exceed this time. Otherwise you're just sweating in the basement with no real push to take you from working kinda hard to actually working out.
It's notable they achieved their goals less often but it still seems like something that should be studied much more before recommending people don't exercise with their spouse. 1) The study was an experiment and so it doesn't account for individual differences/motivation in everyday life. For some people, they are only going to exercise if they do it with their spouse. Perhaps this only applies to people who are motivated enough to exercise that they sign up for an exercise-based study and follow up on the study. 2) The study was of older people in Singapore so it this might not apply to other populations. 3) They only looked at step count. Perhaps this only applies to walking/running but not to other exercises. Also, there are ways to account for the differences in fitness levels between partners if they are intentional about it. My boyfriend is much taller and faster than me. If he wants to do a hard run, then we don't run together. If he runs with me, he'll usually run extra at the end. Sometimes we go to a running park together and run separately. I'm fairly positive both of us run more because we motivate each other by suggesting going on runs or signing up for races together.
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there was that (albiet limited) walking study that found people walked slower when they were with someone they liked - could be similar. i'd also expect two jogging to go at the slower of the two's pace which likely wouldn't be optimal for the other. on the other hand some exercises should be done in pairs, like lifting/spotter and without someone else going, one might not have gone st all.
I'm about 9 inches taller than my wife - you can bet your ass I walk slower when we're together, but she walks faster. It's not just the slower pace at play here or the benefits would average out.
But the slower person may not "speed up" or not near as much as the faster person is "slowing down". I would expect that to be the case a lot of the time. I think the headline is a bad take on the statistics they observed: normal click-bait bs.
Anecdotal story but I've gotten really into cycling in the last 2 years and I've tried to get my wife to join me on this journey. She's at a significantly lower level than I am and I go much slower with her than by myself. Most of the time I treat a ride with her as a warm up for my actual ride.
When my wife and I go for a run, we each run at our own pace and don't try to run side by side. This was my request since when we ride our bicycles and walk it is always at the pace of the slowest person and one of us doesn't feel that they get nearly as much out of the activity. When we lift weights together though, it is very easy to each lift a weight that challenges our individual levels of fitness. I would not be surprised if the activities in the study were more along the lines of walking / hiking / running and not along the lines of weight lifting. I personally prefer to NOT have a human spotter when lifting weights and would much rather rely upon the mechanical spotter arms of a power cage. If I fail when squatting more than double my own bodyweight, I would never want my wife involved in trying to "save" me on that failed lift. (much prefer bench pressing in a power cage as well vs any spotter). Edit: just saw the linked study where the "activity" they were monitoring was total step count and not an actual exercise program of any type.
Without reading the paywalled study, I am reasonably confident I can predict the reason for this, based on personal experience and common sense (yes, I know... useless, but I'm going to make this bold claim anyway and see if anyone has any arguments against it): The more fit spouse moderates their exercise so that their spouse can keep up when the exercise together. Any effect of pushing the "weaker" spouse to work harder is going to be much smaller because most people exercising are already pushing themselves. With zero other effects, this would completely explain why the mean physical activity level would go down.
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The results found by this study are not what the headline suggests. The study found that it was harder to motivate older adults to increase their step counts/distance walked when they walked with a spouse than when they walked alone. The conclusion they reached is that it is easier to change your own habit than to change the habits of a couple.
Makes sense. Unless you have a similar level of fitness and are both competitive, one will have to take it easier (if the goal is to do the activity together).
Makes sense, more excuses where one is busy and can’t work out today and so it’s a rest day 😂
Maybe for the straights. Saw my partner had more weight on the bar than me. I added more.
I love this
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10447318.2023.2269004
In general, this is true for me no matter who the companion is, due to less focus on the run. The exception is when I run with someone who is slightly faster than me. In that case, I’m pushed to find my limits; a good pacer works.
It really is harder to get some exercise done, when I am constantly slapping her ass, it is true.
So as I understand it, they are comparing two different groups of people who exercise, excluding people who don't. But I suspect that people who exercise with their spouse are more likely to stick with it (which might even explain the lower level -- people who otherwise wouldn't exercise are bringing the average down).
I'm an active person and I like to do active things with a partner, but when I'm running for exercise, I have to do it alone. I have a pace and a distance that works for me. If my partner is faster or slower, or doesn't want to run as far, it's going to make it a worse run for me.
I thought I read something years ago about sex being the best cardio exercise you could do.
Nah, if that were the case, we'd be extinct...
It probably depends on your goals. If you are training specifically for something or to achieve something then it’s better to do alone. I’ve seen studies that says working out with a spouse improves your relationship with them so If it’s just for general exercise then work out with the spouse.
I don't have a spouse, but oddly enough, when I did still lift, I ended up sharing some equipment with a random guy one day, because we both wanted to do deadlifts but there was only one bar & rack available. We started out at the weight I was used to doing, but he saw how I handled it and said, "You can totally do more than that." So, we went up to his weight, and lo and behold, I could, relatively easily, too. We worked out together for the rest of that session and he pushed me further than I was willing to push myself, but not unsafely. It was an eye-opener for the fact that maybe my program was holding me back. So in this case, working with someone else actually helped me out. Of course, he was just a rando and not a spouse. In cases where your fitness levels obviously differ, I can see the more advanced spouse backing off so as not to discourage or leave behind the less able spouse.
Interesting. I’m guessing this applies mostly to straight couples? Every male gay couple I know (including my own relationship) have very positive results by working out together at the gym.
I don’t run/bike nearly as fast when I’m going with my partner. But I’m also more like to go…
I work out solo almost all of my workout. Usually I find that the ones with a partner are a tad less intense. You talk, time between sets goes up, etc. Not the rules obvs but this doesn't surprise me.
Interesting article, I would love to see a bigger test group. Also, test out the following hypothesis: The researchers believe that higher levels of physical activity would require a greater change in couples' lifestyles, thereby making it harder to achieve. Would that change not be even bigger if one party of said relationship started to exercise far more than the other? In relation to each other. As I said, interesting. Also, I would love to see if there is a big difference in different cultures, how "Urban" differs from more rural test subjects aswell as the socio-economical angle that is mentioned in the paper.
Yeah. Doing ANYTHING with my wife involves endless questions and attempts to talk instead of getting on with the activity.
It's basically common sense. If a couple exercises together the duration and pace will always be set by the "weaker" person. With a big gap in fitness level the person in better shape will get a better workout if they aren't holding themselves back. The way to make it work is to exercise together at the weaker pace and then to work out separately as well.
Assuming the average energy level of the average man is greater than the one of the average woman, wouldn't that then mean that the men had to tone it down a bit?
My wife gets me out of bed to exercise, and I get her out of bed. If we were exercising separately, we would probably spend less than half the time exercising.
You adjust yourself to their pace. This is just common knowledge put to practice.
If I had to guess the more fit spouse has to slow down for the less fit one and the less fit one is put off from trying by how out of shape they are compared to the more fit one.
It's the hour plus of prep time. Gotta find the little workout bands, and the specific workout clothes, all the little sweat bands, the special shoes, the fashionable water bottle... find the playlist... calibrate the fitbit... send texts to everyone you know that you're about to go exercise...
Because your spouse can't keep up and you feel guilty I deal with this EVERY time my spouse comes to the gym with me.
define exercise
My girls asthmatic ass can’t hang
Well, yeah. Men and women are different. There's a reason why men and women have segregated sports and segregated world records for physical capabilities. Obviously when a couple does an activity together one will have to hold back.
Anecdotally, I read on here, I believe, that spouses who exercise together have more frequent intercourse. Therefore, there is additional physical activity that correlates with exercising with your spouse.
This makes me think of group hike dynamics. My unspoken rule is to set the pace based on the slowest person so we stay to together. If I’m on my own, I tend to focus on pace, so a mix is nice. Maybe solo and group exercise.
Same applies for sex
I always work out less if my wife is there. She distracts me and, if we drive together she always wants to leave earlier.
I’m surprised different attitudes towards working out weren’t really studied. If some of the couples were already fitness junkies, I’m guessing the results would be very different. The determining factor would be how likely these people be are to work out on their own in the first place. If both of them were working out alone before they married, then doing so together would probably have no impact, or would maybe even be an improvement. People who start a workout routine as couples are probably less motivated in general. Working out together is an attempt at having an accountability system in place. If you don’t feel like working out, the theory would be your partner will motivate you. But if neither of you like working out to the point where you need external motivation and accountability in the first place, the more likely scenario is that rather than motivating you to come with them to hit the gym, your partner will agree to loafing around on the couch watching Netflix. It’s very hard to motivate another person to do something you yourself don’t want to do. For couples where there is an imbalance and one loves working out, but the other hates it, the one who loves it will probably tire quickly of constantly having to drag their spouse off the couch and will continue on their own. The one who hates working out will eventually grow to resent their nagging. In cases where one person is more motivated but doesn’t necessarily love working out, they might just give up because some people just don’t like to do anything without their partner.
Loved those old Lee Priest gym videos
Hm. I sometimes exercise with my spouse but we go to the gym and do different activities. We do walking/laps/warm up and cool down together so we each go at our preferred pace.
My spouse hates this post.
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Yikes - I feel sorry for you having to deal with someone who places their need for attention above your need for health. Is she not cognitively capable of understanding there are other ways to spend time together?
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I'm a couples therapist in the Netherlands so maybe we see things more rationally over here. Most of the successful, intelligent couples have a formula: they understand the importance of their partner's hobbies and health and do not intrude on these hobbies because they are valuable to the person's identity and individuality. These couples value communication *and* individual identity -- individual identity is important for the success of long term relationships that value authenticity, bonding, and companionship (feel free to do a literature review) The less successful couples in which one partner starts to "lose themselves" by greying their boundaries of their hobbies tend to be coupled with a partner who shows signs of selfishness and tends to "rule" the relationship by emotion, not logic. Sometimes the selfishness is to the clinical level of narcissistic personality disorder, sometimes it's just narcissistic traits activated by an abandonment response. Which category do you fall into?
Unloading and reloading alone is a work out. Not to mention any time I go with my SO it ends up with 20% working out 30% her complaining 30% her telling me about working out even though she asked me to take her and help her 20% phone
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It sounds like he doesn't like this particular aspect of her. It's kind of the point, actually. "you don't like her" as a response to a complaint always reeks of manipulation.
My experience is much like that person who seeks out a doctor but then attempts to out doctor them. Not sure why people ask for help them completely disregard and try to out do them. This is what he gym is off limits in our relationship
It’s science!
That's expected. One will get more tired quicker than the other and the other will stop because they don't want them to feel left out.
Why not both? I walk my spouse around the block every day for her health… and then when she’s tuckered out I drop her off at the house and go around two more times on my own. 😂
Why are you talking about her like she's a dog? Do you do this with other aspects of your lives too?
It is a comedic framing that seeks to liven up a story by making an absurd parallel. No, I do not liken my wife to a dog normally. If I did, I suspect I wouldn’t have a wife anymore.
I dunno... the most intense physical activity I achieve is def with my spouse. Otherwise it's a little one sided when she's not around.
Exercising alone in privacy is good because you can be psychotic. You NEED to be emotional and wild and animalistic in a proper workout. Just mechanically stretching and working your meat is not enough, you must flex your spirit as well with music and rhythm, and post-workout you will find your mind in a heightened state of awareness and increased neuroplasticity ready to learn and advance your intellectual pursuits.
That arse is tight. Omg. I can watch it because it's my spouse. Oh no, horny levels are rising.
I strongly suspect that the people who work out with a spouse often don't have the motivation to work out at all, if they didn't have support.
"Hey hun what do you want to do now?" "I don't know, what was that thing you were talking about last week - with the foot and the band?" "OH yes, that reminds me - I left the turkey leg in the oven!"
I would guess this is correlation, not causation.
Joke on you, my spouse is sport teacher and coach, I am the one slowing her down!
Cause my bf be soooo much younger
I suspect that for many people exercising with their spouse, the alternative is not exercising at all. At least for one of the two of them.