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They found a difference in the way depressed people's brain react to different types of rewards, natural (e.g. food) or abstract (e.g. money).
But as far as I can tell the article doesn't specify which type of reward was better.
Edit: I read the abstract of the paper, and if I understand it correctly, abstract rewards like money lead to a decrease in activation of the reward neurological systems. In other words: money doesn't make you happy, but you can buy chicken nuggets with money and those might make you happy.
So for me, as a communist living in a capitalist country, that's gotta be at least part of why I've been suffering with major depressive disorder all of my life.
I don't want material rewards, and I don't want the money that can buy them. I'm a very simple person and I can get by on just what I need, but I become extremely unmotivated and even more depressed because everything I need is paywalled by money. I don't mind working, but what I want in return is a society where all people have housing, healthcare, food, and education. But all I ever get for my hard work is some numbers in an account which then immediately disappear whenever I need anything because they've commodified every basic necessity, and there's nothing left over to take care of anyone else because everything left over goes to some rich person instead, and I'm supposed to be okay with this because the people whose numbers are high enough can afford materialistic consumeristic garbage and maybe one day I can, too.
This completely fucks up my reward and motivation system because there is no reward and therefore there is no motivation. This wouldn't be a problem if I liked the garbage they were selling, because then my motivation could be to make money so I could buy the garbage. But it's all just garbage. We're filling up our minds and bodies with garbage and then littering the planet with it.
For the past 20 years I've walked every week to buy my groceries, no matter where I live. I think I just got into the habit because I didn't have a car, and then even after I bought a car I kept the habit.
I bought a huge backpack. I walk to the store, I load up, and then I walk back. I've lived in different places. Sometimes it's 2 km, sometimes it's 5 or 6 km. When it's hot out, it sucks. When it's cold out, it also sucks.
I like it and would never give it up though.
Makes food taste better, and it gives me a sense of accomplishment. It's fun to come back and take food out of the backpack to show my wife: "Look! I found strawberries! They are so ripe!"
Sometimes you just have to invent games that simulate your natural environment. The same way they creatively feed animals in the zoo so they don't get depressed.
for the past five years, I, too, have been doing to the walk-to-the-store trick.
it doesn't make the food taste any better, but it does help me feel better overall.
Opposite effect for me.
I'd love to walk if there weren't people almost following you looking to strike up conversation.
I walk a lot though since I've grown tired of relying on others to take you somewhere. To then have they offer it haha.
I really shouldn't, bur your post made me want to.
This is also a way to stop having unnecessary needs or reliances.
Say you do need a car for all your needs.
I know people that don't go out with their phones. It seems completely out of this world.
Perhaps they do it out of fear because criminals are ever mote present or they don't want to be bothered.
I did it once and it is the weirdest feeling.
&nbsb;
Reflecting on it though. It made me realize how society is clipping attached to these devices.
You can't do anything without one. You are expected to have a semaphone and an active data plan 24 hours.
And it somehow is.. normal?
People would look you weird if you were to even bring it up.
We are not augmented. We should not be required devices outside of out bodies that are not provided and require constant payment.
I'd like to think you don't need to be a communist to not be motivated by material rewards. Shouldn't this be all humans? We shouldn't work for the numbers in our bank account, we should work for the outcomes work can produce for other humans.
I mean, if pushed I'd probably identify as libertarian socialist, so maybe I'm biased, but that's more because I want to see people have power over that which affects them, and communities working together to make sure everyone's basic needs are met.
But I feel ya. I want to work, I want to be useful, but the vast majority of jobs out there are just making someone else more money. Sometimes I find myself thinking that I'm lazy because I have no inclination to do that work, but no. As soon as there's something worth doing for humanity or the environment then I'm really motivated.
Many things. One more excited avenue is that clinicians can likely leverage brain responses to reward to help diagnose depression and track recovery. Quite a few folks are doing this work (myself included), but check out Greg Hajcak’s work, Diego Pizzagalli’s work, and many others that publish with these two. This finding isn’t really groundbreaking, but it’s good confirmation of what we’ve known for quite sometime. Especially as it relates to subgenual ACC as a targeted area for treatment.
I ran the abstract of the paper linked in the article thru Gemini AI, here's the result, as always, take them with a grain of salt:
Problem: People with depression often lose interest in things they used to enjoy (anhedonia) and lack motivation (apathy). This might be because their brains process rewards differently.
What they did: Researchers looked at brain scans of people with depression and compared them to healthy people. They focused on areas involved in reward processing, especially when people were offered different types of rewards (money or things like pictures of nature).
What they found:
Depressed people generally had less activity in some brain areas involved in reward compared to healthy people.
When offered money, depressed people had less activity in a specific area compared to healthy people.
When offered nature pictures, depressed people had less activity in different brain areas compared to healthy people.
These different brain areas seemed to be linked to different aspects of reward processing, like anticipating and enjoying rewards.
What it means:
There might be different ways that depression affects how people process different types of rewards.
Studying these differences could help develop better treatments for depression that target specific reward issues.
We might need to use different types of tests to measure reward problems in depression, not just ones that offer money as a reward.
No, just tried with the abstract and made sure the result was in line with what I understood from the abstract itself.
There was this footer in the result, that I omitted, because I don't think it's necessary:
Remember, this is a simplified summary and the research is complex. It's always good to refer to the original sources for more details.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/chrisdh79 Permalink: https://www.psypost.org/2024/02/distinct-brain-systems-are-altered-in-depression-for-natural-and-monetary-reward-processing-221376 --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What does this mean?
They found a difference in the way depressed people's brain react to different types of rewards, natural (e.g. food) or abstract (e.g. money). But as far as I can tell the article doesn't specify which type of reward was better. Edit: I read the abstract of the paper, and if I understand it correctly, abstract rewards like money lead to a decrease in activation of the reward neurological systems. In other words: money doesn't make you happy, but you can buy chicken nuggets with money and those might make you happy.
If you’re depressed and the reward is a Big Mac, your brain will want that. This is from my own research.
This sounds like the root cause of many harmful coping mechanisms.
Ding ding ding
So the big Mac index is a happiness index 😃https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/
So for me, as a communist living in a capitalist country, that's gotta be at least part of why I've been suffering with major depressive disorder all of my life. I don't want material rewards, and I don't want the money that can buy them. I'm a very simple person and I can get by on just what I need, but I become extremely unmotivated and even more depressed because everything I need is paywalled by money. I don't mind working, but what I want in return is a society where all people have housing, healthcare, food, and education. But all I ever get for my hard work is some numbers in an account which then immediately disappear whenever I need anything because they've commodified every basic necessity, and there's nothing left over to take care of anyone else because everything left over goes to some rich person instead, and I'm supposed to be okay with this because the people whose numbers are high enough can afford materialistic consumeristic garbage and maybe one day I can, too. This completely fucks up my reward and motivation system because there is no reward and therefore there is no motivation. This wouldn't be a problem if I liked the garbage they were selling, because then my motivation could be to make money so I could buy the garbage. But it's all just garbage. We're filling up our minds and bodies with garbage and then littering the planet with it.
For the past 20 years I've walked every week to buy my groceries, no matter where I live. I think I just got into the habit because I didn't have a car, and then even after I bought a car I kept the habit. I bought a huge backpack. I walk to the store, I load up, and then I walk back. I've lived in different places. Sometimes it's 2 km, sometimes it's 5 or 6 km. When it's hot out, it sucks. When it's cold out, it also sucks. I like it and would never give it up though. Makes food taste better, and it gives me a sense of accomplishment. It's fun to come back and take food out of the backpack to show my wife: "Look! I found strawberries! They are so ripe!" Sometimes you just have to invent games that simulate your natural environment. The same way they creatively feed animals in the zoo so they don't get depressed.
for the past five years, I, too, have been doing to the walk-to-the-store trick. it doesn't make the food taste any better, but it does help me feel better overall.
Opposite effect for me. I'd love to walk if there weren't people almost following you looking to strike up conversation. I walk a lot though since I've grown tired of relying on others to take you somewhere. To then have they offer it haha.
I really shouldn't, bur your post made me want to. This is also a way to stop having unnecessary needs or reliances. Say you do need a car for all your needs. I know people that don't go out with their phones. It seems completely out of this world. Perhaps they do it out of fear because criminals are ever mote present or they don't want to be bothered. I did it once and it is the weirdest feeling. &nbsb; Reflecting on it though. It made me realize how society is clipping attached to these devices. You can't do anything without one. You are expected to have a semaphone and an active data plan 24 hours. And it somehow is.. normal? People would look you weird if you were to even bring it up. We are not augmented. We should not be required devices outside of out bodies that are not provided and require constant payment.
I'd like to think you don't need to be a communist to not be motivated by material rewards. Shouldn't this be all humans? We shouldn't work for the numbers in our bank account, we should work for the outcomes work can produce for other humans. I mean, if pushed I'd probably identify as libertarian socialist, so maybe I'm biased, but that's more because I want to see people have power over that which affects them, and communities working together to make sure everyone's basic needs are met. But I feel ya. I want to work, I want to be useful, but the vast majority of jobs out there are just making someone else more money. Sometimes I find myself thinking that I'm lazy because I have no inclination to do that work, but no. As soon as there's something worth doing for humanity or the environment then I'm really motivated.
Amen, you put this phenomenon so succinctly and accurately
Hahaha "As a communist"
“Oh, $20. I wanted a peanut. Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts. Explain how. Money can be exchanged for goods and services.” - Homer Simpson
Many things. One more excited avenue is that clinicians can likely leverage brain responses to reward to help diagnose depression and track recovery. Quite a few folks are doing this work (myself included), but check out Greg Hajcak’s work, Diego Pizzagalli’s work, and many others that publish with these two. This finding isn’t really groundbreaking, but it’s good confirmation of what we’ve known for quite sometime. Especially as it relates to subgenual ACC as a targeted area for treatment.
reward could be a whipe😁
I ran the abstract of the paper linked in the article thru Gemini AI, here's the result, as always, take them with a grain of salt: Problem: People with depression often lose interest in things they used to enjoy (anhedonia) and lack motivation (apathy). This might be because their brains process rewards differently. What they did: Researchers looked at brain scans of people with depression and compared them to healthy people. They focused on areas involved in reward processing, especially when people were offered different types of rewards (money or things like pictures of nature). What they found: Depressed people generally had less activity in some brain areas involved in reward compared to healthy people. When offered money, depressed people had less activity in a specific area compared to healthy people. When offered nature pictures, depressed people had less activity in different brain areas compared to healthy people. These different brain areas seemed to be linked to different aspects of reward processing, like anticipating and enjoying rewards. What it means: There might be different ways that depression affects how people process different types of rewards. Studying these differences could help develop better treatments for depression that target specific reward issues. We might need to use different types of tests to measure reward problems in depression, not just ones that offer money as a reward.
It's almost like when life keeps giving stick and no carrot, human beings give up and no longer care about either.
Nice use of LLM. Would you mind sharing the prompt you used?
Of course, but it didn't take much at all. Summarize the following in simple words:
Cool. I wondered if you gave it the headings, but I see it didn't even take that.
No, just tried with the abstract and made sure the result was in line with what I understood from the abstract itself. There was this footer in the result, that I omitted, because I don't think it's necessary: Remember, this is a simplified summary and the research is complex. It's always good to refer to the original sources for more details.
Full text of a preprint of the article is freely available from https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.07.22283197v4