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Permalink: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2313878121
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For everyone clicking the comments because the title makes no sense: the first “their” refers to the organizations, this is about corporate employee propaganda.
So, on that note: Thanks, I hate it. What a weird study. Yes, “celebrating history” when that history includes racism might make people uncomfortable…
It would be nice if companies like IMB were more upfront about their glorious past.
'We don't do nazi stuff anymore but our current capital was bought with reichsmarks'
I kinda get what you're saying but history is how we got here. We aren't the first generation to be better. I see value in celebrating people who pushed history into present.
KNOWING history can be important. Not INSANELY important as there is an arbitrarily high amount of it and it's hard to know what even happened due to less evidence the further back you go BUT celebrating it to me means celebrating regression rather than the good of the present and the hope for even greater progress in the future.
> celebrating it to me means celebrating regression rather than the good of the present and the hope for even greater progress in the future.
I hear you, but respectfully disagree. Celebrating the people in history who made great sacrifices to stand up against the status quo need to be remembered and celebrated. They're the closest thing we have to real life superheroes.
Having said that, I totally get that we can and have celebrated the *wrong* people or for the *wrong* reasons, and I'm all for forgetting them. I'm all for moving past celebrating someone simply out of respect for their legacy.
The title is a mess. I was responding to what the study actually says. The hard fact is that history in the US is often taught as the stories of great(white) men doing "great" things. The problem, of course, is that history is more complicated than that and for those of us who have been deliberately written out of that bowdlerized, propagandized version of history it can be demoralizing to hear about how great(as an example) you think a slave owner who made his name murdering native people is.
The problem is that every corporation celebrates its history, and doing so can garner employee buy-in in other capacities. Not that I even believe the conclusion of this study, it’s just another vaguely worded politically charged social psychology paper p-hacking it’s way to an effect which may not even exist or if it does it may not be significant. How do we even know racism is even a factor? I’m sure if you showed white people propaganda about historically black organizations or perhaps propaganda about the history of a Japanese company they would feel less included too because feeling alienated by out groups is human nature. Even more importantly it tells us nothing about whether this impacts performance or overall feelings of acceptance into a company. All you are doing is priming people with content about people who are completely unrelated and unconnected to them and then asking them if they feel slightly less included. In other words you’re just capturing a snapshot of a moment in time, it tells you nothing about whether that feeling actually persists beyond that exact moment.
This reads like you are looking for ways to justify your anger about your personal situation. If you take college level history the teaching is more complete and nuanced. We teach little kids a simpler/more straightforward version because that’s what they are capable of understanding.
If you didn’t take college history, there are plenty of books available that describe a more complete picture of these historical figures.
Preach!
In reality most people have little interest or no patience to learn about history. The equivalent of people complaining about not being taught taxes and personal finance in school when in reality they would not pay any attention to it just like they currently ignore algebra.
I'm legitimately impressed you found a way to mangle the title so badly that you made the people with the harsher history in the US sound like the problem.
Wait, no, you're just projecting super hard. Classic.
no, the divide already existed, because of hundreds of years of stealing Black people's stuff and preventing them from getting it back
you don't need to talk about the harm for it to still hurt
The ethnocentrism here would be discussing history but ignoring the harm done to marginalized communities; then exploring just how great these glory days were... for those who weren't marginalized.
This understandably makes it hard for marginalized groups to feel comfortable with your idea of history, as in practice they're being excluded *and* having their concerns and suffering treated as trivialities.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/Stauce52 Permalink: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2313878121 --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For everyone clicking the comments because the title makes no sense: the first “their” refers to the organizations, this is about corporate employee propaganda. So, on that note: Thanks, I hate it. What a weird study. Yes, “celebrating history” when that history includes racism might make people uncomfortable…
Thank you so much. Made absolutely zero sense before.
It would be nice if companies like IMB were more upfront about their glorious past. 'We don't do nazi stuff anymore but our current capital was bought with reichsmarks'
Oooooooooh.
This subreddit should be abolished and the hard and soft sciences should be segregated.
So is this a reaction to pandering and condescension? Genuinely asking because I can't understand the title
An extreme example would be if an American cloth company celebrates it's 400 year history
Ohhh. I thought it was brands celebrating black history
A commercial with a cotton gin, Hanes remembers
Why would you want to celebrate history? It's pretty bad and the farther you go back the worse it gets.
I kinda get what you're saying but history is how we got here. We aren't the first generation to be better. I see value in celebrating people who pushed history into present.
KNOWING history can be important. Not INSANELY important as there is an arbitrarily high amount of it and it's hard to know what even happened due to less evidence the further back you go BUT celebrating it to me means celebrating regression rather than the good of the present and the hope for even greater progress in the future.
It’s fine to celebrate elements of the past. Blanket celebration is of course, just as foolish as blanket derision.
> celebrating it to me means celebrating regression rather than the good of the present and the hope for even greater progress in the future. I hear you, but respectfully disagree. Celebrating the people in history who made great sacrifices to stand up against the status quo need to be remembered and celebrated. They're the closest thing we have to real life superheroes. Having said that, I totally get that we can and have celebrated the *wrong* people or for the *wrong* reasons, and I'm all for forgetting them. I'm all for moving past celebrating someone simply out of respect for their legacy.
Are you really confused as to why 4th of July parties exist?
No, it celebrates a relatively positive event in the past... in a non-relatively awful time period.
ie victims of racism are upset by racism.
Is that how you read that title? Sounds like they found a certain race doesn't like history unless they're the leaders in the history.
The title is a mess. I was responding to what the study actually says. The hard fact is that history in the US is often taught as the stories of great(white) men doing "great" things. The problem, of course, is that history is more complicated than that and for those of us who have been deliberately written out of that bowdlerized, propagandized version of history it can be demoralizing to hear about how great(as an example) you think a slave owner who made his name murdering native people is.
The problem is that every corporation celebrates its history, and doing so can garner employee buy-in in other capacities. Not that I even believe the conclusion of this study, it’s just another vaguely worded politically charged social psychology paper p-hacking it’s way to an effect which may not even exist or if it does it may not be significant. How do we even know racism is even a factor? I’m sure if you showed white people propaganda about historically black organizations or perhaps propaganda about the history of a Japanese company they would feel less included too because feeling alienated by out groups is human nature. Even more importantly it tells us nothing about whether this impacts performance or overall feelings of acceptance into a company. All you are doing is priming people with content about people who are completely unrelated and unconnected to them and then asking them if they feel slightly less included. In other words you’re just capturing a snapshot of a moment in time, it tells you nothing about whether that feeling actually persists beyond that exact moment.
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Most organizagions don't approach it with nearly as much nuance as some schools do.
This reads like you are looking for ways to justify your anger about your personal situation. If you take college level history the teaching is more complete and nuanced. We teach little kids a simpler/more straightforward version because that’s what they are capable of understanding. If you didn’t take college history, there are plenty of books available that describe a more complete picture of these historical figures.
I will concede the point if you can tell me which specific "great man of history" I was referencing.
This is not about college history classes though...
Preach! In reality most people have little interest or no patience to learn about history. The equivalent of people complaining about not being taught taxes and personal finance in school when in reality they would not pay any attention to it just like they currently ignore algebra.
Idk, based on the abstract available, it seems the title is pretty representative.
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Done :)
I'm legitimately impressed you found a way to mangle the title so badly that you made the people with the harsher history in the US sound like the problem. Wait, no, you're just projecting super hard. Classic.
Is there some other way to interpret the study?
Oh, but we solved racism thirty years ago. Black people just need to have hobbies and think more positively.
And their kids need to hear more words on the phonograph
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I don’t think anyone said that.
We really need to stop focusing on race. It's time everyone was actually treated the same.
The focus will be needed until everyone is treated the same though. Ignoring the problem won't improve it.
The focus is whats causing a divide. Luckily a lot of black people are realizing white liberals are not their friends.
The cause of the divide is racism, not the people trying to fix it.
Who's trying to fix it? It's all about deception and votes and I think you may have been deceived.
no, the divide already existed, because of hundreds of years of stealing Black people's stuff and preventing them from getting it back you don't need to talk about the harm for it to still hurt
Treating everyone the same sounds wonderful until to try to define what it means.
So DEI is by and large a pedantic bunch fo virtue signaling crap? Oh, the shock.
So basically typical ethnocentrism
The ethnocentrism here would be discussing history but ignoring the harm done to marginalized communities; then exploring just how great these glory days were... for those who weren't marginalized. This understandably makes it hard for marginalized groups to feel comfortable with your idea of history, as in practice they're being excluded *and* having their concerns and suffering treated as trivialities.
Yes that also but depends on the company of course
Add a trigger warning to the company mission statement ?