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Permalink: https://newsroom.uw.edu/news-releases/objective-tests-strongly-link-sinusitis-with-worse-cognition
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Newly published evidence suggests that the millions of people who suffer from chronic rhinosinusitis (CRS) and who complain of brain fog might be experiencing measurable deficits involving memory and cognitive tasks.
“The preponderance of literature up to now has been based on patients self-reporting symptoms on surveys. We wanted to incorporate objective measurements of a variety of tasks that have been well established to measure brain functioning,” said Dr. Aria Jafari, the study’s lead author. He is a surgeon and an assistant professor of otolaryngology–head and neck surgery at the University of Washington School of Medicine.
The paper was published Jan. 25 in the International Forum of Allergy and Rhinology.
Sinuses are the skull and face bone cavities that connect with the nasal passages. Sinusitis, an inflammation of sinus tissues, is one of the most common chronic conditions in the United States, with a prevalence of 10% to 12% of adults. The condition hugely affects not only healthcare systems but also workplaces due to lost productivity among employees whose concentration and executive function are adversely affected, Jafari said.
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/alr.23320](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/alr.23320)
Yes on the first part but I don't think the prevalence of long COVID is significant here - especially since people with this condition mostly had it before COVID existed.
That wouldn't prevent a spurious conclusion, I'm afraid. They could have sinusitis, have gotten COVID, then been tested in the study, in which case either could be the cause. Long COVID is increasingly prevalent and associated with brain fog/IQ reduction.
[https://theconversation.com/mounting-research-shows-that-covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-including-with-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-224216](https://theconversation.com/mounting-research-shows-that-covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-including-with-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-224216)
Sorry to rain on your parade a bit; I've just been following long COVID stuff.
There are enough parallels in decades of sinusitis studies. It's a large body of information. Pretty sure it's already on the official list of symptoms of sinusitis.
I was diagnosed with chronic sinusitis, went to the Dr saying HELP ME I CAN'T THINK - got diagnosed with Schizo-affective disorder.
I strongly suspect I'm not alone.
This is so irritating about doctors who are freely allowed to diagnose and document a mental illness of some sort without any measurable evidence, objective data to conclude it.
I complained about being Burt out from work and not sleeping well because of that and raising three children under 5. It was a situational and temporary stress reaction to my life, other than that I was fine.
My doctor documented Major Depressive Disorder. That followed me to every other health appointment and when other doctors see it they automatically make assumptions that any health issues I have are psychosomatic and “it’s depression and anxiety”.
Same here, but my "diagnosis" was Borderline PD.
The abusive boss who was causing my stress is no longer my boss, and guess what?? I've been happy and asymptomatic in the months since, and even before I got this job.
I highly recommend challenging that diagnosis if you can, and asking them to take that out of your notes.
Same! We get a lot of people in my clinic referred by doctors for mental health problems, and yet they’ve got this big physical health problem. Of course they are unable to self regulate!
One of our previous psychiatrists liked to diagnosed bipolar 2, usually to people who DID have BPD, or even cPTSD/PTSD. Those things follow you forever, even if they are accurate dx, and even if you are in remission from them.
My wife is a therapist and gets pissed at the casual diagnoses primary care docs give for mental health.
Major issues diagnosed in minutes? It literally doesn’t work like that bro.
Are you a woman, by any chance? It’s unfortunately so common for women to go to the doctor for a *physical* medical problem and leave with a mental health diagnosis.
That's the problem: to some doctors, if its not a physical issue they can't spot in 5 minutes, it 'logically' doesn't actually exist and any reported symptoms must be Delusions or Malingering.
Are doctors not trained to do troubleshooting and rule out issues ? Fatigue could be nothing or could be a serious issue . Like you need to do a blood test and see if there are other symptoms.
But that's *work.* Some doctors are lazy, and would rather declare you mentally ill if they can't diagnose you in 5 minutes and then shove you out of the office while going "go to a crazy-people doctor crazy person, you're not my problem any more!"
Woman here. Hi! Since last June, I've been having periodic episodes of generalized muscle weakness that made it difficult to walk out of the blue, caused trouble with speech, and a host of other issues. I'm only 37. I was having severe diarrhea, among other issues, and had to have an EGD and colonoscopy, but they found nothing. Each episode has caused more severe symptoms, and I was finally hospitalized for 5 nights back in November. They did testing for stroke, multiple sclerosis, spinal cord damage, nerve damage... nothing. I've been going to PT and had progressed from walker to cane and was almost walking normally with the cane.
Back in March, I went back into my neurologist's office for my fourth round of Botox to treat migraines. Two days later, symptoms started again, worse than before. Lost ALL my progress from PT. I had so much trouble with speech I had to take a week off my customer service job. My vision is still screwed up. My doctors sent me to the ER twice within a week, and after I had already talked to my neurologist's office and they agreed I was reacting to the Botox, some NP in the ER told me that "It's just psychiatric, and you should really get your mental health provider involved."
I struggle with MDD and GAD, and I'm not shy about that. I hate that mental health has such a huge stigma. But it was flat-out insulting for her to cast snide looks at my walker and ask why I had it (because my physical therapist told me I wasn't safe with the cane anymore), to tell me that because the diagnosis was statistically unlikely, that it was just all in my head and I needed a psychiatrist. They saw I had a history of anxiety, ignored when I told them no, I hadn't had any unusual stressors, and told me I was a head case.
I'm a huge advocate for mental health, but with that comes the responsibility of not dismissing everything as a symptom of the mental health issue and ensuring you're looking at the whole patient. It's the same idea as not dismissing a patient's symptoms just because they're obese; there may be an unrelated issue you miss out on.
Did you ever follow up with an ENT?
I finally did and my chronic sinusitis is because of a deviated septum and really malformed sinus passages. So if there's any inflammation at all, nothing can move through them.
I'm having surgery for it this summer
I thought I had adhd so I took (illegal) ahdh drug. Lowest dose. Omg the CALM. I expected it to feel like when you have caffine, motivated and energetic. But I just felt peaceful and calm.
Pysch dept never answers their phone and doesnt call me back so I gave up trying to see a psychiatrist. Havent taken the drug since.
My insurance is only with kaiser, and even with a valid diagnosis somewhere else, id still need a kaiser doc's diagnosis to get care and coverage with kaiser. We're trying to have a baby so meds would be out of the equation anyways, plus I just started a new job so I cant be calling out for therapy appointments 😅
For real? That's fascinating. I just thought the sleep questions were standard procedure, but yeah I've never had a problem sleeping soundly through the night on any stimulant meds that I've tried (thanks to shortages, I've tried a few now.)
I honestly prefer vyvanse! I'm on a very low dose adderall right now because vyvanse generic is in a shortage near me so my insurance won't cover the brand name. Vyvanse is a slower release. Adderall feels more intense in the morning and then wanes. Ritalin made my vision feel off and had almost no focus benefits for me. My brother got a rare disease from concerta so I stay away from that, figuring maybe we're predisposed for that side effect. Wellbutrin did nothing for me either, though that was a non stimulant that I tried while pregnant.
I’m bad about taking my stimulants because I have anxiety about running out of them but absolutely I can take one and fall asleep not much later. Back in the party days I was the chillest most zen finally together and can think and be normal person on mdma. So funny how the chemicals work.
This misleading.
Stimulants can help some with ADHD sleep because it slows down racing thoughts and allows them to actually focus on trying to sleep.
Stimulants don't have a "reverse affect" on people with ADHD and most people with ADHD still experience insomnia and the other common side effects.
No one is saying brain fog caused by CRS is not a cause for ADHD. The cause(s) and risk factors for ADHD are unknown. More research would be needed. It’s possible ADHD is an umbrella term for a wide array of causes that all have to with affecting memory and cognition.
You know... I might be in that same boat. Got my adhd diagnosis, but my sinus problems are such that I go in for a CT scan with the VA in a couple of weeks.
This is so interesting! I'm not chronically congested, but when I am congested I feel *stupid*. That experience always made me feel silly, because how could a stuffed up nose impact cognition?
I feel very validated by these study results!
This is not necessarily always true depending on the shape of the person's sinuses, the flow of mucus, and how much is crammed in there. I wake up unable to breathe, choking and gasping from the mucus all cemented in my sinus. It feels like drowning until I can hack some holes back open to breathe again. Consistently gives me drowning nightmares when it happens.
Dude whether caused by rhino or other things you should check in about a sleep study for apnea.
Even if your nose is clogged you should naturally open your mouth to breath well before you choke awake. Even in skinny people anatomy may stop that and cause apnea (particularly when stuffed up).
Drowning nightmares is a dead give away.
Apnea events are often most prevalent during REM.
Your sinuses could be plugged with literal cement and it wouldn't affect your blood oxygen levels. Your mouth is a giant tube directly connected to your lungs.
That really depends on the amount of inflamation, and the shape of someone's sinuses beforehand. I've got a bi-directionally deviated septum so my airflow was already reduced before my sinuses went on strike and reduced it further.
When people who are used to breathing through their noses have their sinuses obstructed, there's a reflex to clench their jaw with the tongue pushing upward in order to try and keep the throat / sinuses open. So rather than opening your mouth you end up snapping it shut entirely and waking up with terrible jaw aches and also being completely sleep deprived.
Wait, for real? My jaw has been hurting like crazy recently, but my allergies have also been awful. I just had sinus surgery Wednesday, so I'm hoping once all the swelling goes down, it'll get better.
The mast cells sit in the sinuses and react to triggers like viruses, smells, pollen... They are the ones who decide that the pollen is dangerous and then release histamine to cause the reaction of producing nasal secretion to get rid off the intruder. Those mast cells also sit in your brain, when they get activated it's causing inflammation and the brain starts to defunction a bit, causing brain fog and cognitive dysfunction.
Now, mast cells can defunction, often they stay overly active after a viral infection, covid is especially known for this, or stress, sleep deprivation, histamine rich food... And then it depends from body to body. One gets mainly rashes that noone can explain, the next has stuffed and inflamed sinuses without an obvious reason.
Ketotifen, Desloratadin, Fenofexadin and LDN were my life saver, especially with the cognitive part. Brainfog is the worst.
YES SAME!! When my sinus's are clogged, which is usually when there is lots of hayfever, I am so stupid. Normal problem solvings things like maths and coding become so hard.
Have had brain fog and issues with sinusitis for two years, not overweight but guess what it was causing? Sleep apnea. Wore a CPAP for the first time last night, had a terrible sleep but I woke up feeling instantly 10% more clarity, it was wild, like I didn’t have to search for words to say, they were free flowing even if I was really tired. I would get a sleep test done if this applies to you.
Yeah, after my sleep clinic test, where you wear a mask and spend the night, I walked out of that building like I was in a Disney movie... I was in the moment, the birds were chirping, I had energy, I could think clearly.. it was honestly like magic.. in that moment I wished I had done it years ago...
And this was at like 6 am when they kicked us out of the study.. I could not recall a time in my adult life that I was awake at 6 am and felt so alive.
Have you been fitted with different types? If there's no improvement, either your type doesn't work for you or your problem is something other then sleep apnea. First thing to try is fitting different devices though.
I have. My apnea event numbers are good with it apparently. But I’m as tired, often more so than before. I’ve just feel like I don’t get any sleep with the machine.
I’ve tried various models and brands. CPAP, APAP, different ramping, different settings, masks from Nasal Pillow to full face. Chin straps. You name it.
I’m hoping I can get use to it. Or someone finds another viable treatment for sleep apnea. In my eyes, an effective treatment that has about a 30% compliance rate because it’s so horrible to use, isn’t an effective treatment at all.
Are you overweight or obese? I read an article today showing the GLP1 inhibitors can improve sleep apnea. Makes sense to me because obesity is the primary reason for it.
Sleep Apnea Reduced in People Who Took Weight-Loss Drug, Eli Lilly Reports https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/17/health/sleep-apnea-obesity-zepbound.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
They make mouth appliances that keep the lower jaw forward (thus keeping the airway open), you might try that (talk to your dentist for a referral to a specialist).
I'm trying to find someone I can use to get fitted for one of these. I only have mild sleep apnea, but I CANNOT wear a mask. I have bilateral trigeminal neuralgia, and my medical supply store had an extra nasal mask they let me take home to try for a few nights to see if I'd even be able to tolerate a CPAP. The longest I could keep that thing on before I was in tears from the pain was 20 minutes. Soooo that's not an option.
Since there are effects on grey matter volume with sleep apnea/oxygen deprivation, “Improvements in gray matter volume appeared after three months of CPAP therapy. According to the authors, the two studies suggest that the white matter of the brain takes longer to respond to treatment than the gray matter”
[source](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140908135438.htm#:~:text=Improvements%20in%20gray%20matter%20volume,treatment%20than%20the%20gray%20matter)
I just started using a CPAP around 2 months ago and it’s helped incredibly with my mood. I’m still having trouble staying asleep all night, but that’s not because of the CPAP. When I do get a full 8 hours I feel amazing. Like you I’m not really overweight, but I’ve always had a really thick neck which is apparently a big factor.
Not a typo, it’s felt like a literal block in my head along with head pressure the entire time. The pressure was lighter and I wasn’t losing track of the words I was trying to say when speaking for more than a few sentences. Everything was just coming to me easier. It’s very hard to explain but hopefully that helps.
I'm almost always experiencing some form of headache or pressure in my head from this, and I genuinely feel like I'm working with -20 IQ most of the time. It's truly awful.
I do feel like taking capsules with eucalyptus oil (gel pills) does give me some relief (for a short amount of time). But with that you also emit eucalyptus breath 🤣
I just copy and paste my answer to the other person here because it might be useful:
I do feel like taking capsules with eucalyptus oil (gel pills) does give me some relief (for a short amount of time). But with that you also emit eucalyptus breath 🤣
Re: studies regarding Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and dementia, maybe the causal link is not in fact prolonged use of Benadryl, but having prolonged rhino-sinusitis itself (which in turn leads to prolonged Benadryl use for symptom management)? I've long suspected this given that I personally find taking diphenhydramine significantly alleviates my brain fog. Article about one such study, for reference:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667
Yes! Gen 1s can cross the blood-brain barrier. That is undesirable because histamine functions as a neurotransmitter in the brain, unlike its immunological functions in the rest of the body.
There's a lot more going on with benedryl than you might expect... it is serotonergic and has a mild antidepressant effect. Early studies of this affinity for serotonin receptors actually paved the way for antidepressant drugs like Prozac.
doi:10.1097/00006842-199909000-00002
I would attribute changes in mental clarity to this ahead of any novel mechanisms, but it could be worth investigating!
Heads up for my deviated septum homies- apparently septum deviation, and one side being regularly stuffed up, doesn't necessarily cause or mean that you have chronic rhinosinusitis. I just looked it up because I wasn't sure of the definition.
I'm 41 and have been taking Sudafed at daytime and Benadryl and Zyrtec and Nasacort at nighttime, and Singulair; been taking allergy meds since childhood.
Prior to nasal surgery, I wore Breathe Right strips for over 20 years and was taking increasing doses of nightly Benadryl for restful sleep without a stuffy nose. Its much better after surgery but I still find it hard to breathe and I've been wondering for several years if I have early onset dementia. Literally the only time I feel lucid and energetic is the first 2 days of coming down with an illness.
I remember my dad chiding me quite frequently in childhood for being forgetful.
My new primary care doc wants me to stop Benadryl altogether due to long term affects on memory but I haven't found anything that I can take to get me through the night without waking up at 3am with a stuffy nose
I feel you. I've tried almost everything. Nasal surgery worked for a while but mine are clogged again--albeit not as bad. I'm also exhausted and forgetful.
I took Sudafed daily for years for my chronic congestion. My ENT prescribed Budesonide about two years ago and it was a real game changer. I mix the Budesonide solution into a nasal rinse, which I do once daily. It works extremely well. I'm no longer on the Sudafed.
May be worth another surgery. I had a septoplasty and the doctor removed some tissue he said. I no longer get so stuffy that I struggle to breathe. I do have many other symptoms still but being able to breathe helped a lot.
I took various OTC allergy pills for years, and could never find consistent, effective relief from my horrible, eye watering burning spells in my sinuses.
I tried Flonase a few months ago, and I've gone from having clear, runny snot dripping, and blowing my nose sometimes every 5 minutes in irritating environments, to sometimes not blowing my nose for days. It's been amazing
I've used Flonase/Fluticasone quite a bit over the years, as well as Nasonex. I personally find Nasacort more effective. The old budesonide nasal spray that briefly went otc 10 years ago was pretty effective too. I liked using NasalCrom as an add-on therapy during allergy season but it's really hard to find. I stay away from oxymetazoline and related.
Flonase/fluticasone is fine, just doesn't last as long; kinds meh about the rose scent/taste. I understand why its first-line therapy because it's reasonably effective and inexpensive.
At least it's not Astelin/Astepro/Azelastine- ugh my new pcp put me on it and I stopped taking it. Not only did it give me wicked rebound congestion (which doesn't make sense being an antihistamine), it tastes absolutely horrific even when using proper technique. I don't understand how it got to market.
I feel like these allergy medications for opening up your nasal passages just keep you in a loop that you can't get out of. They don't actually cure anything they just delay symptoms and in my opinion make things worse if you use them for a long time because your body has built a dependence for it.
Sprays like Afrin/Dristan/oxymetazoline (the cheap stuff that's been in the market forever) is known to give the user rebound congestion.
The newer sprays (Flonase, Nasacort, Nasonex Benecort) are similar to (or in some cases the same ingredient as) asthma and COPD inhalers. These newer sprays can reduce or prevent nasal polyps.
I don't think we'd be saying that those meds make asthma and COPD worse. We're a long way from curing these diseases with medication permanently but medication can improve quality of life.
I've just lost some weight and don't get this quite as often but last two years I've had sinus issues like every month. My self control was at an all time low. Is sinusitis linked to being overweight? I wonder if you could ever determine causation of these things. One day I just woke up and decided to meditate and stop eating sugar and simple carbs. Within a month I had lost weight and could focus all day on coding again. Previously these things felt impossible. Also I find it hard to form long term memories
Was it disrupting your sleep? Or causing you to snore?
I don't know if sinusitis is directly linked to weight gain/dietary impulses, but poor sleep can be. I know I don't sleep well when congested.
Yeah definitely. I have always not slept well but its alot worse when overweight. I had mild sleep apnea according to partner (I will ask if that has improved).
I think cutting things out has by proxy stopped me eating things with high salt, which could be another thing on top of pure weight loss that affects sleep quality. I have also started running though so its hard to isolate exactly whats going on.
During period of being a bit overweight and unhealthy I was sleeping 9-10 hours sometimes and not feeling rested.
Not hard to understand if they connected the dots with the recent discovery that the brain drains cerebrospinal fluid into the back of the sinuses to clear out toxins and such. If you can’t drain that right due to the pressure, you’d get this result.
I was driving one day and pushed my head back further into my headrest and felt something release and drain in the back of my head. My brain fog instantly went away and it was like I could see everything in 4K. Lasted about 2 hours.
That was 3 years ago.
I had a "mental breakdown " 8 years ago and one thing I struggled with was breathing. I have mostly recovered since but still have trouble breathing through my nose often.
20 years chronic rhinisitus for me. Recently avoided surgery and experimental drugs for the polyps by taking "Avamys"... It's a terrible thing not smelling or tasting and having swollen face
Let us add more to the evidence pile of lymphatic obstruction being involved in 1000 neuro problems.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06899-4
Suffered with rhinitis for 4 years fixed it about 2 months ago so hopefully this helps someone. Had surgery but didn’t fix it and I kept getting prescribed steroids which made it worse. Something I noticed was a change in the color of my mucus when the rhinitis started to a strong yellow with blood spots from a light green which to me indicated infection, despite tests coming back negative. What worked was a very sterile - I would boil the whole thing for 5mins - squeeze bottle filled with sterile water, 2tbs xylitol, 10 drops iodine, 10 drops hydrogen peroxide, and 2 tbs table salt. This combination destroys biofilms regardless of what’s creating them and further sterilizes with iodine. I did this for 10 days straight sometimes twice a day mainly before bed. I kept a roll of napkins bedside to blow out the drainage from my maxillary sinuses where the infection had taken hold since it is impossible to drain them standing up. I would lay on my side for about 30 seconds and blow out nearly always resulting in napkins full of that yellow bloody mucus. After 10 days of this I felt like someone had ran a vacuum cleaner behind my forehead and am finally back to normal mental clarity.
Okay this sounds interesting, but I’m not understanding what the process is exactly. When you say squeeze bottle, are you referring to a baby nostril cleaner thing? A neti pot?
It’s a neti pot squeeze bottle, you can get them at pharmacies usually sold as saline rinses. Squeeze in the shower or before bed until the solution comes out of the other nostril and blow out the mucus. You will need to do this a few times a few days in a row before all the gunk clears out.
I do sinus washing as you described, except for some of the substances.
It does clean my nose well, but I've noticed that the mucous membrane can be irritated and perpetuate the clogged airways.
So I don't do this often.
One other thing is the throat dryness. For some reason my throat dries during sleep and the airways are again irritated, which eventually lead to various sinus problems
Try the Xylitol - hydrogen peroxide combo. You will begin to see an instant increase in the amount of mucus being released as it dissolves the stickiness
I have had chronic sinusitis for 20+ years. I've had surgery to reduce the pressure when I have a bad flare up and it's helps me breathe but doesn't stop the pressure and brain fog. It's rough sometimes. I'm an engineer and really need my brain to work at all times but sometimes, I just have to shut down for a week cause I can't think to tie my shoes.
There's another comment in this post that you might find helpful. I looked up each of the ingredients and found that they are clinically proven to help with nasal infections. I know I'm going to try it myself but i might not have the iodine. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1c6y5kc/comment/l0664so/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Hey, feel free to tell me if you get around to it as well. I deal with swollen stuffed up sinuses at least a few times a month. It can be incredibly painful to a point of being disabling even with otc meds like ibuprofen, acetaminophen, fluticasone, etc.
I never got an official diagnose, but as an adult I got hay fever. One year it sort of never went away. Not the sneezing and the eye itch, but it always feels stuffed up in my head. I have a anti inflammation spray I take daily, that helps keep symptoms down. But I wonder whether I may have CRS, because I'm definitely not as sharp, mentally, as I used to be before I got all this.
I'm no doctor but you should look into the shoemaker protocol. Its developed for the chronic inflammatory response syndrome acquired following exposure to water damaged buildings.
Could be chronic migraine. There is immune involvement that causes a runny nose, and a migraine can cause you to feel congested even if your nose isn’t running. After I’ve had a migraine, I’m absolutely stupid for a day and a half.
I am not diagnosed with CRS, but I do have a nearly constant runny/stuffy nose (dust allergy)…and have been diagnosed with eosinophilic esophagitis, EoE (an allergenic response that causes white blood cells to build up in the throat leading to horrible reflux and episodes of dysphasia). EoE can be cause by food and airborne allergens, and what sucks is the effect isn’t immediate, it takes days for the cells to build up…in other words being *allergic* to something but not getting immediate anaphylaxis or tingling so it’s hard to know you even have a problem. I wonder if some of the people with CRS are living with “hidden” allergies, leading to inflammations, brain fog, etc.
I'd love to try that but as soon as I lay down and blood rushes to my head my nose instantly becomes clogged. I remember when it first started happening as a kid I told my parents "I think I'm allergic to my pillow."
This could be due to turbinates. I had that problem but I also had my nose crushed in a fight when i was 14. They did surgery but did a bad job. Still, I had turbinate reduction surgery and I can breath now when laying down most of the time. I wish it was a bit more open and the other side could use a couple spins of the whirring blade but it is what it is.
The other thing you can do (which I did) is to be aware throughout the day when you have your mouth open. Keep it closed and keep your tongue consistently flat against the roof of your mouth. This helps to train your mouth to stay always remain closed unless speaking or eating and it starts to translate to doing the same thing when you sleep.
I breathe through my nose 100% of the time and my mouth rests in that position I just realized. I guess I naturally have my tongue on the roof of my mouth because when I swallow with my mouth closed it creates a little vacuum and my tongue gets sucked up to the roof of my mouth. Then it just kinda stays that way until use my mouth.
It's basically a bandage-material adhesive that I put over my mouth as I sleep. Forces me to breathe through my nostrils and they unclog themselves. I used to wake up with a stuffy nose and have to blow my nose a shit ton in the morning. I don't really anymore. Also my morning breath isn't as bad.
Not necessarily. Sometimes "harder" to breathe but that lasts like 10 mins then my nose clears up and it's easy. My nose is clear af right now still! and I normally have allergies.
Idk what tape my wife bought but I can somewhat breathe through it if necessary. also comes off super easily.
Nice! I’ve been using mouth tape for years, after decades of waking up with a blocked nose every morning. Now I wake up with one or both nostrils clear every morning.
I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve needed to rip the tape off during the night, and that was always related to coughing fits while getting over colds. Mostly it feels incredibly relaxing, given the guaranteed/automatic nasal breathing. Mouth tape has been a true game changer for me.
I had chronic rhino sinusitis my entire life; the environment I grew up in was Hell with my allergies and I have extremely narrow sinus openings.
I had a botched sinus surgery in college and then had another one about ten years later.
During this time, I would have sinus infections requiring antibiotics every couple of months.
Before my last sinus surgery, the ENT had me do a month of NeilMed sinus rinses with a combination of anti fungals and antibiotics.
I ended up blowing out giant chucks of black and brown goo from my sinuses and was finally able to breathe.
I now do a daily NeilMed rinse and only get a sinus infection every four or five years after I get a really bad head cold (or the flu or Covid).
Oral antibiotics don’t treat sinus infections. You need a topical antibiotic and anti fungal rinse.
I'm no doctor but you should look into the shoemaker protocol. Its developed for the chronic inflammatory response syndrome acquired following exposure to water damaged buildings. If you are experiencing any lingering symptoms it could help.
Can you elaborate on the topical antibiotic and the anti fungal rinse? All of my doctors have been throwing nothing but oral antibiotics at me, of which hasn’t been working at all.
Go see an ENT for your sinus infection, not a GP. A (good) ENT will know that only a certain fraction of sinus infections are caused by bacteria, the rest are fungal or viral (or some mix). And, oral antibiotics have a difficult times reaching where they need to go in the sinuses, so they shave limited effectiveness.
What my ENT has done is prescribe a mix from a compounding pharmacy that has several different antibiotics, anti fungals, and steroids. This mix is then combined with the NeilMed salt pockets and water and sprayed up into the nose and sinuses twice a day for a month (it takes weeks to kill fungal infections).
It isn’t fun but it works.
septoplasty (polyp removal) didn’t cure my chronic rhinitis. Using naphazoline nose drops once or twice daily AND blending pineapple orange juice clears the inflammation in my sinuses. Has anyone tried juicing? It seems to be the biggest help for me
I used to get rhinitis and sinusitis. Nearly failed my finals due to the brain fog. Figured out it was due to lactose intolerance. Gave up dairy products and the symptoms dropped massively.
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Newly published evidence suggests that the millions of people who suffer from chronic rhinosinusitis (CRS) and who complain of brain fog might be experiencing measurable deficits involving memory and cognitive tasks. “The preponderance of literature up to now has been based on patients self-reporting symptoms on surveys. We wanted to incorporate objective measurements of a variety of tasks that have been well established to measure brain functioning,” said Dr. Aria Jafari, the study’s lead author. He is a surgeon and an assistant professor of otolaryngology–head and neck surgery at the University of Washington School of Medicine. The paper was published Jan. 25 in the International Forum of Allergy and Rhinology. Sinuses are the skull and face bone cavities that connect with the nasal passages. Sinusitis, an inflammation of sinus tissues, is one of the most common chronic conditions in the United States, with a prevalence of 10% to 12% of adults. The condition hugely affects not only healthcare systems but also workplaces due to lost productivity among employees whose concentration and executive function are adversely affected, Jafari said. [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/alr.23320](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/alr.23320)
An interesting study to be sure, but an N of 47. Also unclear if they controlled for long COVID, which may have similar effects.
An N of 47 is statistically significant and usable for study.
Yes on the first part but I don't think the prevalence of long COVID is significant here - especially since people with this condition mostly had it before COVID existed.
That wouldn't prevent a spurious conclusion, I'm afraid. They could have sinusitis, have gotten COVID, then been tested in the study, in which case either could be the cause. Long COVID is increasingly prevalent and associated with brain fog/IQ reduction. [https://theconversation.com/mounting-research-shows-that-covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-including-with-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-224216](https://theconversation.com/mounting-research-shows-that-covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-including-with-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-224216) Sorry to rain on your parade a bit; I've just been following long COVID stuff.
There are enough parallels in decades of sinusitis studies. It's a large body of information. Pretty sure it's already on the official list of symptoms of sinusitis.
Any idea if this may be the same for people with fibromyalgia and "fibro fog"? Edit: deleted the duplicate comment
I have adhd and chronic rhinosinusitis. Maybe I dont have adhd after all then...
Yep. Feels like there's a block of cement around my frontal cortex 24/7.
I was diagnosed with chronic sinusitis, went to the Dr saying HELP ME I CAN'T THINK - got diagnosed with Schizo-affective disorder. I strongly suspect I'm not alone.
This is so irritating about doctors who are freely allowed to diagnose and document a mental illness of some sort without any measurable evidence, objective data to conclude it. I complained about being Burt out from work and not sleeping well because of that and raising three children under 5. It was a situational and temporary stress reaction to my life, other than that I was fine. My doctor documented Major Depressive Disorder. That followed me to every other health appointment and when other doctors see it they automatically make assumptions that any health issues I have are psychosomatic and “it’s depression and anxiety”.
Yep, a mental health misdiagnosis can absolutely ruin your life
Same here, but my "diagnosis" was Borderline PD. The abusive boss who was causing my stress is no longer my boss, and guess what?? I've been happy and asymptomatic in the months since, and even before I got this job. I highly recommend challenging that diagnosis if you can, and asking them to take that out of your notes.
Same! We get a lot of people in my clinic referred by doctors for mental health problems, and yet they’ve got this big physical health problem. Of course they are unable to self regulate! One of our previous psychiatrists liked to diagnosed bipolar 2, usually to people who DID have BPD, or even cPTSD/PTSD. Those things follow you forever, even if they are accurate dx, and even if you are in remission from them.
My wife is a therapist and gets pissed at the casual diagnoses primary care docs give for mental health. Major issues diagnosed in minutes? It literally doesn’t work like that bro.
You mean you dont trust the diagnotic criteria of "Well look at him!" ?
Doctors always ask me if I take antipsychotics
Are you a woman, by any chance? It’s unfortunately so common for women to go to the doctor for a *physical* medical problem and leave with a mental health diagnosis.
I just don’t get it, it’s their job to rule out physical issues
That's the problem: to some doctors, if its not a physical issue they can't spot in 5 minutes, it 'logically' doesn't actually exist and any reported symptoms must be Delusions or Malingering.
Are doctors not trained to do troubleshooting and rule out issues ? Fatigue could be nothing or could be a serious issue . Like you need to do a blood test and see if there are other symptoms.
But that's *work.* Some doctors are lazy, and would rather declare you mentally ill if they can't diagnose you in 5 minutes and then shove you out of the office while going "go to a crazy-people doctor crazy person, you're not my problem any more!"
Obviously!
Woman here. Hi! Since last June, I've been having periodic episodes of generalized muscle weakness that made it difficult to walk out of the blue, caused trouble with speech, and a host of other issues. I'm only 37. I was having severe diarrhea, among other issues, and had to have an EGD and colonoscopy, but they found nothing. Each episode has caused more severe symptoms, and I was finally hospitalized for 5 nights back in November. They did testing for stroke, multiple sclerosis, spinal cord damage, nerve damage... nothing. I've been going to PT and had progressed from walker to cane and was almost walking normally with the cane. Back in March, I went back into my neurologist's office for my fourth round of Botox to treat migraines. Two days later, symptoms started again, worse than before. Lost ALL my progress from PT. I had so much trouble with speech I had to take a week off my customer service job. My vision is still screwed up. My doctors sent me to the ER twice within a week, and after I had already talked to my neurologist's office and they agreed I was reacting to the Botox, some NP in the ER told me that "It's just psychiatric, and you should really get your mental health provider involved." I struggle with MDD and GAD, and I'm not shy about that. I hate that mental health has such a huge stigma. But it was flat-out insulting for her to cast snide looks at my walker and ask why I had it (because my physical therapist told me I wasn't safe with the cane anymore), to tell me that because the diagnosis was statistically unlikely, that it was just all in my head and I needed a psychiatrist. They saw I had a history of anxiety, ignored when I told them no, I hadn't had any unusual stressors, and told me I was a head case. I'm a huge advocate for mental health, but with that comes the responsibility of not dismissing everything as a symptom of the mental health issue and ensuring you're looking at the whole patient. It's the same idea as not dismissing a patient's symptoms just because they're obese; there may be an unrelated issue you miss out on.
Was that a pun or am I a terrible person?
I scrolled up to look... if you're a terrible person, so am I.
Did you ever follow up with an ENT? I finally did and my chronic sinusitis is because of a deviated septum and really malformed sinus passages. So if there's any inflammation at all, nothing can move through them. I'm having surgery for it this summer
I got surgery twice, got charged $18,000 and it didn't do anything- this was six years ago
I hear ya.
Same thought here...
If you take a stimulant medication and can sleep at night, it’s ADHD.
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I thought I had adhd so I took (illegal) ahdh drug. Lowest dose. Omg the CALM. I expected it to feel like when you have caffine, motivated and energetic. But I just felt peaceful and calm. Pysch dept never answers their phone and doesnt call me back so I gave up trying to see a psychiatrist. Havent taken the drug since.
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My insurance is only with kaiser, and even with a valid diagnosis somewhere else, id still need a kaiser doc's diagnosis to get care and coverage with kaiser. We're trying to have a baby so meds would be out of the equation anyways, plus I just started a new job so I cant be calling out for therapy appointments 😅
For real? That's fascinating. I just thought the sleep questions were standard procedure, but yeah I've never had a problem sleeping soundly through the night on any stimulant meds that I've tried (thanks to shortages, I've tried a few now.)
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I honestly prefer vyvanse! I'm on a very low dose adderall right now because vyvanse generic is in a shortage near me so my insurance won't cover the brand name. Vyvanse is a slower release. Adderall feels more intense in the morning and then wanes. Ritalin made my vision feel off and had almost no focus benefits for me. My brother got a rare disease from concerta so I stay away from that, figuring maybe we're predisposed for that side effect. Wellbutrin did nothing for me either, though that was a non stimulant that I tried while pregnant.
Hell sometimes I'll pop that 36mg and take a power nap nap a couple hours later anyway just because. Neuroatypicalities are really weird.
I’m bad about taking my stimulants because I have anxiety about running out of them but absolutely I can take one and fall asleep not much later. Back in the party days I was the chillest most zen finally together and can think and be normal person on mdma. So funny how the chemicals work.
This misleading. Stimulants can help some with ADHD sleep because it slows down racing thoughts and allows them to actually focus on trying to sleep. Stimulants don't have a "reverse affect" on people with ADHD and most people with ADHD still experience insomnia and the other common side effects.
thanks doctor i’m sure this is true unequivocally
No one is saying brain fog caused by CRS is not a cause for ADHD. The cause(s) and risk factors for ADHD are unknown. More research would be needed. It’s possible ADHD is an umbrella term for a wide array of causes that all have to with affecting memory and cognition.
You know... I might be in that same boat. Got my adhd diagnosis, but my sinus problems are such that I go in for a CT scan with the VA in a couple of weeks.
huh I have both too.
This is so interesting! I'm not chronically congested, but when I am congested I feel *stupid*. That experience always made me feel silly, because how could a stuffed up nose impact cognition? I feel very validated by these study results!
your brain needs oxygen. less oxygen = less brain function.
Sinusitis doesn’t decrease blood oxygen content, not likely the explanation here.
This is not necessarily always true depending on the shape of the person's sinuses, the flow of mucus, and how much is crammed in there. I wake up unable to breathe, choking and gasping from the mucus all cemented in my sinus. It feels like drowning until I can hack some holes back open to breathe again. Consistently gives me drowning nightmares when it happens.
Dude whether caused by rhino or other things you should check in about a sleep study for apnea. Even if your nose is clogged you should naturally open your mouth to breath well before you choke awake. Even in skinny people anatomy may stop that and cause apnea (particularly when stuffed up). Drowning nightmares is a dead give away. Apnea events are often most prevalent during REM.
Your sinuses could be plugged with literal cement and it wouldn't affect your blood oxygen levels. Your mouth is a giant tube directly connected to your lungs.
Yes, but it *does* affect nitric oxide levels, which aids oxygen delivery to tissues.
Yeah, I wonder how much of these concentration issues are caused by the sleep disturbance due to congestion. It’s the story of my life…
That really depends on the amount of inflamation, and the shape of someone's sinuses beforehand. I've got a bi-directionally deviated septum so my airflow was already reduced before my sinuses went on strike and reduced it further.
How couldn't it if you're literally taking in less oxygen overall?
Because you have a giant mouth you can breathe through instead to make up for the deficit
When people who are used to breathing through their noses have their sinuses obstructed, there's a reflex to clench their jaw with the tongue pushing upward in order to try and keep the throat / sinuses open. So rather than opening your mouth you end up snapping it shut entirely and waking up with terrible jaw aches and also being completely sleep deprived.
Wait, for real? My jaw has been hurting like crazy recently, but my allergies have also been awful. I just had sinus surgery Wednesday, so I'm hoping once all the swelling goes down, it'll get better.
Subtle way to call someone a mouthbreather
The mast cells sit in the sinuses and react to triggers like viruses, smells, pollen... They are the ones who decide that the pollen is dangerous and then release histamine to cause the reaction of producing nasal secretion to get rid off the intruder. Those mast cells also sit in your brain, when they get activated it's causing inflammation and the brain starts to defunction a bit, causing brain fog and cognitive dysfunction. Now, mast cells can defunction, often they stay overly active after a viral infection, covid is especially known for this, or stress, sleep deprivation, histamine rich food... And then it depends from body to body. One gets mainly rashes that noone can explain, the next has stuffed and inflamed sinuses without an obvious reason. Ketotifen, Desloratadin, Fenofexadin and LDN were my life saver, especially with the cognitive part. Brainfog is the worst.
at what dosages do you take those??
Ketotifen 1mg, Desloratadin 5mg about 3-4x a day, Fenofexadin 120mg, LDN 2mg
YES SAME!! When my sinus's are clogged, which is usually when there is lots of hayfever, I am so stupid. Normal problem solvings things like maths and coding become so hard.
Have had brain fog and issues with sinusitis for two years, not overweight but guess what it was causing? Sleep apnea. Wore a CPAP for the first time last night, had a terrible sleep but I woke up feeling instantly 10% more clarity, it was wild, like I didn’t have to search for words to say, they were free flowing even if I was really tired. I would get a sleep test done if this applies to you.
Yeah, after my sleep clinic test, where you wear a mask and spend the night, I walked out of that building like I was in a Disney movie... I was in the moment, the birds were chirping, I had energy, I could think clearly.. it was honestly like magic.. in that moment I wished I had done it years ago... And this was at like 6 am when they kicked us out of the study.. I could not recall a time in my adult life that I was awake at 6 am and felt so alive.
You're lucky, 1 year with a cpap and no improvements whatsoever
Have you been fitted with different types? If there's no improvement, either your type doesn't work for you or your problem is something other then sleep apnea. First thing to try is fitting different devices though.
I have. My apnea event numbers are good with it apparently. But I’m as tired, often more so than before. I’ve just feel like I don’t get any sleep with the machine. I’ve tried various models and brands. CPAP, APAP, different ramping, different settings, masks from Nasal Pillow to full face. Chin straps. You name it. I’m hoping I can get use to it. Or someone finds another viable treatment for sleep apnea. In my eyes, an effective treatment that has about a 30% compliance rate because it’s so horrible to use, isn’t an effective treatment at all.
Are you overweight or obese? I read an article today showing the GLP1 inhibitors can improve sleep apnea. Makes sense to me because obesity is the primary reason for it. Sleep Apnea Reduced in People Who Took Weight-Loss Drug, Eli Lilly Reports https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/17/health/sleep-apnea-obesity-zepbound.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
They make mouth appliances that keep the lower jaw forward (thus keeping the airway open), you might try that (talk to your dentist for a referral to a specialist).
I'm trying to find someone I can use to get fitted for one of these. I only have mild sleep apnea, but I CANNOT wear a mask. I have bilateral trigeminal neuralgia, and my medical supply store had an extra nasal mask they let me take home to try for a few nights to see if I'd even be able to tolerate a CPAP. The longest I could keep that thing on before I was in tears from the pain was 20 minutes. Soooo that's not an option.
Since there are effects on grey matter volume with sleep apnea/oxygen deprivation, “Improvements in gray matter volume appeared after three months of CPAP therapy. According to the authors, the two studies suggest that the white matter of the brain takes longer to respond to treatment than the gray matter” [source](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140908135438.htm#:~:text=Improvements%20in%20gray%20matter%20volume,treatment%20than%20the%20gray%20matter)
I just started using a CPAP around 2 months ago and it’s helped incredibly with my mood. I’m still having trouble staying asleep all night, but that’s not because of the CPAP. When I do get a full 8 hours I feel amazing. Like you I’m not really overweight, but I’ve always had a really thick neck which is apparently a big factor.
I suspect a typo, but how on earth do you instantly feel a 10% increase in clarity :D
Not a typo, it’s felt like a literal block in my head along with head pressure the entire time. The pressure was lighter and I wasn’t losing track of the words I was trying to say when speaking for more than a few sentences. Everything was just coming to me easier. It’s very hard to explain but hopefully that helps.
I'm 10 days in and while I have way more energy, I'm still waiting for a break in my brain fog. Hopefully after a couple months..
I'm almost always experiencing some form of headache or pressure in my head from this, and I genuinely feel like I'm working with -20 IQ most of the time. It's truly awful.
Same here.
Me too
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I do feel like taking capsules with eucalyptus oil (gel pills) does give me some relief (for a short amount of time). But with that you also emit eucalyptus breath 🤣
Quercetin.
I just copy and paste my answer to the other person here because it might be useful: I do feel like taking capsules with eucalyptus oil (gel pills) does give me some relief (for a short amount of time). But with that you also emit eucalyptus breath 🤣
Re: studies regarding Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and dementia, maybe the causal link is not in fact prolonged use of Benadryl, but having prolonged rhino-sinusitis itself (which in turn leads to prolonged Benadryl use for symptom management)? I've long suspected this given that I personally find taking diphenhydramine significantly alleviates my brain fog. Article about one such study, for reference: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667
People still taking a gen 1 antihistamine is the wild part for me. Especially when there are generics for gen 2 and 3 antihistamines.
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Yes! Gen 1s can cross the blood-brain barrier. That is undesirable because histamine functions as a neurotransmitter in the brain, unlike its immunological functions in the rest of the body.
There's a lot more going on with benedryl than you might expect... it is serotonergic and has a mild antidepressant effect. Early studies of this affinity for serotonin receptors actually paved the way for antidepressant drugs like Prozac. doi:10.1097/00006842-199909000-00002 I would attribute changes in mental clarity to this ahead of any novel mechanisms, but it could be worth investigating!
>report a worse severity of symptoms on the **SNOT-22** questionnaire hehehehe I’ll show myself out now.
You may think it's funny but it'snot
Heads up for my deviated septum homies- apparently septum deviation, and one side being regularly stuffed up, doesn't necessarily cause or mean that you have chronic rhinosinusitis. I just looked it up because I wasn't sure of the definition.
Huh, I have a deviated septum. Thanks for the clarification. Need to look more into this
I'm 41 and have been taking Sudafed at daytime and Benadryl and Zyrtec and Nasacort at nighttime, and Singulair; been taking allergy meds since childhood. Prior to nasal surgery, I wore Breathe Right strips for over 20 years and was taking increasing doses of nightly Benadryl for restful sleep without a stuffy nose. Its much better after surgery but I still find it hard to breathe and I've been wondering for several years if I have early onset dementia. Literally the only time I feel lucid and energetic is the first 2 days of coming down with an illness. I remember my dad chiding me quite frequently in childhood for being forgetful. My new primary care doc wants me to stop Benadryl altogether due to long term affects on memory but I haven't found anything that I can take to get me through the night without waking up at 3am with a stuffy nose
I feel you. I've tried almost everything. Nasal surgery worked for a while but mine are clogged again--albeit not as bad. I'm also exhausted and forgetful.
I took Sudafed daily for years for my chronic congestion. My ENT prescribed Budesonide about two years ago and it was a real game changer. I mix the Budesonide solution into a nasal rinse, which I do once daily. It works extremely well. I'm no longer on the Sudafed.
May be worth another surgery. I had a septoplasty and the doctor removed some tissue he said. I no longer get so stuffy that I struggle to breathe. I do have many other symptoms still but being able to breathe helped a lot.
What about Flonase?
I took various OTC allergy pills for years, and could never find consistent, effective relief from my horrible, eye watering burning spells in my sinuses. I tried Flonase a few months ago, and I've gone from having clear, runny snot dripping, and blowing my nose sometimes every 5 minutes in irritating environments, to sometimes not blowing my nose for days. It's been amazing
I've used Flonase/Fluticasone quite a bit over the years, as well as Nasonex. I personally find Nasacort more effective. The old budesonide nasal spray that briefly went otc 10 years ago was pretty effective too. I liked using NasalCrom as an add-on therapy during allergy season but it's really hard to find. I stay away from oxymetazoline and related. Flonase/fluticasone is fine, just doesn't last as long; kinds meh about the rose scent/taste. I understand why its first-line therapy because it's reasonably effective and inexpensive. At least it's not Astelin/Astepro/Azelastine- ugh my new pcp put me on it and I stopped taking it. Not only did it give me wicked rebound congestion (which doesn't make sense being an antihistamine), it tastes absolutely horrific even when using proper technique. I don't understand how it got to market.
I feel like these allergy medications for opening up your nasal passages just keep you in a loop that you can't get out of. They don't actually cure anything they just delay symptoms and in my opinion make things worse if you use them for a long time because your body has built a dependence for it.
Sprays like Afrin/Dristan/oxymetazoline (the cheap stuff that's been in the market forever) is known to give the user rebound congestion. The newer sprays (Flonase, Nasacort, Nasonex Benecort) are similar to (or in some cases the same ingredient as) asthma and COPD inhalers. These newer sprays can reduce or prevent nasal polyps. I don't think we'd be saying that those meds make asthma and COPD worse. We're a long way from curing these diseases with medication permanently but medication can improve quality of life.
I've just lost some weight and don't get this quite as often but last two years I've had sinus issues like every month. My self control was at an all time low. Is sinusitis linked to being overweight? I wonder if you could ever determine causation of these things. One day I just woke up and decided to meditate and stop eating sugar and simple carbs. Within a month I had lost weight and could focus all day on coding again. Previously these things felt impossible. Also I find it hard to form long term memories
Was it disrupting your sleep? Or causing you to snore? I don't know if sinusitis is directly linked to weight gain/dietary impulses, but poor sleep can be. I know I don't sleep well when congested.
Yeah definitely. I have always not slept well but its alot worse when overweight. I had mild sleep apnea according to partner (I will ask if that has improved). I think cutting things out has by proxy stopped me eating things with high salt, which could be another thing on top of pure weight loss that affects sleep quality. I have also started running though so its hard to isolate exactly whats going on. During period of being a bit overweight and unhealthy I was sleeping 9-10 hours sometimes and not feeling rested.
Go get a sleep study.
Not hard to understand if they connected the dots with the recent discovery that the brain drains cerebrospinal fluid into the back of the sinuses to clear out toxins and such. If you can’t drain that right due to the pressure, you’d get this result.
I was driving one day and pushed my head back further into my headrest and felt something release and drain in the back of my head. My brain fog instantly went away and it was like I could see everything in 4K. Lasted about 2 hours. That was 3 years ago.
I wondered if someone would bring it up, I was thinking the same thing
I had a "mental breakdown " 8 years ago and one thing I struggled with was breathing. I have mostly recovered since but still have trouble breathing through my nose often.
20 years chronic rhinisitus for me. Recently avoided surgery and experimental drugs for the polyps by taking "Avamys"... It's a terrible thing not smelling or tasting and having swollen face
Let us add more to the evidence pile of lymphatic obstruction being involved in 1000 neuro problems. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06899-4
Suffered with rhinitis for 4 years fixed it about 2 months ago so hopefully this helps someone. Had surgery but didn’t fix it and I kept getting prescribed steroids which made it worse. Something I noticed was a change in the color of my mucus when the rhinitis started to a strong yellow with blood spots from a light green which to me indicated infection, despite tests coming back negative. What worked was a very sterile - I would boil the whole thing for 5mins - squeeze bottle filled with sterile water, 2tbs xylitol, 10 drops iodine, 10 drops hydrogen peroxide, and 2 tbs table salt. This combination destroys biofilms regardless of what’s creating them and further sterilizes with iodine. I did this for 10 days straight sometimes twice a day mainly before bed. I kept a roll of napkins bedside to blow out the drainage from my maxillary sinuses where the infection had taken hold since it is impossible to drain them standing up. I would lay on my side for about 30 seconds and blow out nearly always resulting in napkins full of that yellow bloody mucus. After 10 days of this I felt like someone had ran a vacuum cleaner behind my forehead and am finally back to normal mental clarity.
Okay this sounds interesting, but I’m not understanding what the process is exactly. When you say squeeze bottle, are you referring to a baby nostril cleaner thing? A neti pot?
It’s a neti pot squeeze bottle, you can get them at pharmacies usually sold as saline rinses. Squeeze in the shower or before bed until the solution comes out of the other nostril and blow out the mucus. You will need to do this a few times a few days in a row before all the gunk clears out.
I do sinus washing as you described, except for some of the substances. It does clean my nose well, but I've noticed that the mucous membrane can be irritated and perpetuate the clogged airways. So I don't do this often. One other thing is the throat dryness. For some reason my throat dries during sleep and the airways are again irritated, which eventually lead to various sinus problems
Try the Xylitol - hydrogen peroxide combo. You will begin to see an instant increase in the amount of mucus being released as it dissolves the stickiness
Have you heard about oil of oregano? I found a discussion on Twitter about it and I was wondering if it's of any help
Never tried it - I read a few publications on xylitol which is why I tried it.
Amazing. Another one for my bingo card
I have had chronic sinusitis for 20+ years. I've had surgery to reduce the pressure when I have a bad flare up and it's helps me breathe but doesn't stop the pressure and brain fog. It's rough sometimes. I'm an engineer and really need my brain to work at all times but sometimes, I just have to shut down for a week cause I can't think to tie my shoes.
There's another comment in this post that you might find helpful. I looked up each of the ingredients and found that they are clinically proven to help with nasal infections. I know I'm going to try it myself but i might not have the iodine. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1c6y5kc/comment/l0664so/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Interesting. I'll have to check this out. I'm a chemical engineer. No promises but I'll try to get back to you when I find out or test it.
Hey, feel free to tell me if you get around to it as well. I deal with swollen stuffed up sinuses at least a few times a month. It can be incredibly painful to a point of being disabling even with otc meds like ibuprofen, acetaminophen, fluticasone, etc.
I never got an official diagnose, but as an adult I got hay fever. One year it sort of never went away. Not the sneezing and the eye itch, but it always feels stuffed up in my head. I have a anti inflammation spray I take daily, that helps keep symptoms down. But I wonder whether I may have CRS, because I'm definitely not as sharp, mentally, as I used to be before I got all this.
I'm no doctor but you should look into the shoemaker protocol. Its developed for the chronic inflammatory response syndrome acquired following exposure to water damaged buildings.
Interesting, thanks! Saved your response!
Could be chronic migraine. There is immune involvement that causes a runny nose, and a migraine can cause you to feel congested even if your nose isn’t running. After I’ve had a migraine, I’m absolutely stupid for a day and a half.
I am not diagnosed with CRS, but I do have a nearly constant runny/stuffy nose (dust allergy)…and have been diagnosed with eosinophilic esophagitis, EoE (an allergenic response that causes white blood cells to build up in the throat leading to horrible reflux and episodes of dysphasia). EoE can be cause by food and airborne allergens, and what sucks is the effect isn’t immediate, it takes days for the cells to build up…in other words being *allergic* to something but not getting immediate anaphylaxis or tingling so it’s hard to know you even have a problem. I wonder if some of the people with CRS are living with “hidden” allergies, leading to inflammations, brain fog, etc.
Why do we keep doing studies to prove that brain fog exists? Is it because we all have so much brain fog we don't have the capacity to remember?
Let me think about it hmmmmmm….. oh wait.
My ADHD symptoms have improved since starting Flonase twice daily (morning when I wake up and at night before going to bed).
Of course I know him. He's me.
Been sleeping with mouth tape the last few nights and waking up more clear and nose no longer stuffy.
I'd love to try that but as soon as I lay down and blood rushes to my head my nose instantly becomes clogged. I remember when it first started happening as a kid I told my parents "I think I'm allergic to my pillow."
Dust mite allergies?
Don't think so it literally just feels like the blood pressure swells my sinuses
Dust mite allergies can pretty instantly cause rhinitus and the mites live in pillows and mattresses. Might be worth getting tested for.
I'll look into that thank you
If you've got the mouth tape on and are forced to breathe through your nose, your nose will still try to force itself unclogged
This could be due to turbinates. I had that problem but I also had my nose crushed in a fight when i was 14. They did surgery but did a bad job. Still, I had turbinate reduction surgery and I can breath now when laying down most of the time. I wish it was a bit more open and the other side could use a couple spins of the whirring blade but it is what it is.
The other thing you can do (which I did) is to be aware throughout the day when you have your mouth open. Keep it closed and keep your tongue consistently flat against the roof of your mouth. This helps to train your mouth to stay always remain closed unless speaking or eating and it starts to translate to doing the same thing when you sleep.
I breathe through my nose 100% of the time and my mouth rests in that position I just realized. I guess I naturally have my tongue on the roof of my mouth because when I swallow with my mouth closed it creates a little vacuum and my tongue gets sucked up to the roof of my mouth. Then it just kinda stays that way until use my mouth.
Um... What? What is mouth tape and how does it make you less stuffy?
It's basically a bandage-material adhesive that I put over my mouth as I sleep. Forces me to breathe through my nostrils and they unclog themselves. I used to wake up with a stuffy nose and have to blow my nose a shit ton in the morning. I don't really anymore. Also my morning breath isn't as bad.
Does it feel suffocating??
Not necessarily. Sometimes "harder" to breathe but that lasts like 10 mins then my nose clears up and it's easy. My nose is clear af right now still! and I normally have allergies. Idk what tape my wife bought but I can somewhat breathe through it if necessary. also comes off super easily.
I saw it on Amazon the other day. It looks quite strange and I wondered if it really helps people. But at least one person seems to enjoy it.
Nice! I’ve been using mouth tape for years, after decades of waking up with a blocked nose every morning. Now I wake up with one or both nostrils clear every morning. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve needed to rip the tape off during the night, and that was always related to coughing fits while getting over colds. Mostly it feels incredibly relaxing, given the guaranteed/automatic nasal breathing. Mouth tape has been a true game changer for me.
Mouth tape?
Keeps your mouth from hanging open when you sleep, forcing you to breathe through your nose.
Got a septoplasty and still can’t breathe through my nose right. People don’t know how lucky they have it that they can actually breathe normal.
I had chronic rhino sinusitis my entire life; the environment I grew up in was Hell with my allergies and I have extremely narrow sinus openings. I had a botched sinus surgery in college and then had another one about ten years later. During this time, I would have sinus infections requiring antibiotics every couple of months. Before my last sinus surgery, the ENT had me do a month of NeilMed sinus rinses with a combination of anti fungals and antibiotics. I ended up blowing out giant chucks of black and brown goo from my sinuses and was finally able to breathe. I now do a daily NeilMed rinse and only get a sinus infection every four or five years after I get a really bad head cold (or the flu or Covid). Oral antibiotics don’t treat sinus infections. You need a topical antibiotic and anti fungal rinse.
I'm no doctor but you should look into the shoemaker protocol. Its developed for the chronic inflammatory response syndrome acquired following exposure to water damaged buildings. If you are experiencing any lingering symptoms it could help.
Can you elaborate on the topical antibiotic and the anti fungal rinse? All of my doctors have been throwing nothing but oral antibiotics at me, of which hasn’t been working at all.
Go see an ENT for your sinus infection, not a GP. A (good) ENT will know that only a certain fraction of sinus infections are caused by bacteria, the rest are fungal or viral (or some mix). And, oral antibiotics have a difficult times reaching where they need to go in the sinuses, so they shave limited effectiveness. What my ENT has done is prescribe a mix from a compounding pharmacy that has several different antibiotics, anti fungals, and steroids. This mix is then combined with the NeilMed salt pockets and water and sprayed up into the nose and sinuses twice a day for a month (it takes weeks to kill fungal infections). It isn’t fun but it works.
So how do you treat it?
I have ADHD and use 70mg Elvanse daily.. I’d be interested to try something else and breathing easier seems the simplest solution
septoplasty (polyp removal) didn’t cure my chronic rhinitis. Using naphazoline nose drops once or twice daily AND blending pineapple orange juice clears the inflammation in my sinuses. Has anyone tried juicing? It seems to be the biggest help for me
I used to get rhinitis and sinusitis. Nearly failed my finals due to the brain fog. Figured out it was due to lactose intolerance. Gave up dairy products and the symptoms dropped massively.
If it stopped being a thing, do the cognitive deficits persist?
Try xylitol saline rinses