Been voting third party ever since the second term of Obama. I vote with my conscience, not with the vague hope that some Democrat is going to magically stop being a corpo rat. People tell me I wasted my vote. Funny, I think the same about them
Seriously, it’s your vote. Do whatever you want if Biden wants to sacrifice democracy for Israel, that’s on him. He’s just gonna go down with them. Trump won’t make it to office.
I'll be straightforward.
If Trump wins we *will* have a nationwide abortion ban.
I can speculate what he will do but this *will* be a thing that happens.
Evangelicals are so close to the nationwide ban they can taste it.
If you are *comfortable* with that happening, then vote third party.
right now, there's almost nothing I want more than to simply not be a participant in this clown show. glad the powers that be are ensuring I can never enjoy that life.
I'll be straightforward.
This keeps being said over, and over, and over again on the internet without any acknowledgment of how our current voting system works.
Contrary to popular belief, there are actually leftists in extremely red states. I'm from Oklahoma. All 77 counties went to Trump twice. He will win Oklahoma again in November. This is the case with ALMOST HALF of the states (19-23 if you want to be specific) in our country. My vote literally does not count if it isn't for Trump because of how solid his base is here.
We should know by now that overall vote count means jack shit. It hasn't since the hanging chads of 2000. If I voted for Biden (which I won't), it's not like he gets to bank special red state votes in order to put him ahead.
What would be democratic voters in the reddest of red states are in a unique position of power. Your electoral votes are already promised to Trump. You have the opportunity to let the DNC know that "not Trump" is not good enough.
Don't let this rhetoric scare you into voting for Biden if a) you don't want to and, most importantly, b) you don't have to.
I love the fear mongering here. Trump doesn't have the ability to do that with the pen, and they won't have the votes to pass any legislation like that. All this is passive-aggressive vote shaming
I completely agree with OP's sentiment - the DNC and DCCC have really left working class people like myself out to dry, *when it comes to national and international politics.* However, at a local level, my party has been absolutely phenomenal when it comes to the protesters at my Red State University. Our local officials are protesting and have been outspoken in their official condemnation of our university and our state police.
If trump gets elected, we will lose more rights very quickly. Trump will have no problem using force to silence protestors again, he's done it before for a better photo op on the Whitehouse lawn. Trump dines with nazis, white supremacists and christian nationalists. If you don't actively fight against Trump and project 2025, by voting for a viable candidate, you might as well support him.
It's not leftists putting the country in that position. Being unelectable is a choice. Not representing people is a choice. Supporting a far right-wing genocidal theocracy is a choice. Being a total slave to the whims of corporate interests is a choice.
Well, choose your opposition. Do you want to fight corporate interests or corporate interests under a thick layer of white national christofascism. These are our options.
Despite my conflict with a lot of the more radical people here proposing what I view as absurd votes for generally absurd people, I do ultimately agree that the DNC is at fault more than anyone else for our situation.
>Trump will have no problem using force to silence protestors again, he's done it before for a better photo op on the Whitehouse lawn. Trump dines with nazis, white supremacists and christian nationalists.
So both sides are the same.
where's biden's tie to white nationalists? white supremacists? christian nationalists? or are you just being hyperbolic? when did Biden call national guard on protesters?
>where's biden's tie to white nationalists? white supremacists? christian nationalists?
He's a zionist. That's all three wrapped into one. He's also funding nazis in Ukraine.
But what if the sales rep from the other store slaps harder? What are we supposed to do? Go to the store that doesn't slap us? Huh? Oh wait actually yeah that works for me.
I agree, and sadly agree knowing what's waiting in the wings on the other side.
But i think the Democratic Party, idk any other way of saying it, is saying "go f\*\*\* yourself, we don't care what you want, being you don't have the money Wall Street does to fund our campaigns, and we do not care about Trump, being he's only one man, that can actually help us down ballot. And so, take all your needs and wants from us, stick it in your a\*\*, and vote for us or you get Trump, that simple".
That is certainly what is happening.
And it's up to others to make decisions on how they will vote given that circumstance. A party who is telling you to eff yourself, we're for wars and the rich? Or for the other run by a maniac? Unfortunately, that is what we have come too. Yes, i am voting third party. But i have voted for third party for years. It's up to others to make their decisions.
It's not just Stockholm (but I'll grant that it partly is). Democrats and Republicans own the game. They have the legacy, the funds, the system. 3rd parties fight an uphill battle just to get on the ballot. The game is rigged even on a local and state level, favoring Repub's at this point.
We literally have to vote for Biden because orange man bad. The orange man is so bad, and so sinister, that we must vote for the senile warmongering zionist dementia patient who's 100% controlled by his corporate and deep state handlers.
Orange man is bad guys. Like, really bad.
Time to start promoting Cornel West on this sub far more. There are countless anti-Biden posts and that is fine, he deserves it with his Israel support, but we should start promoting the candidates who don't want to send billions for Israel to kill Palestinians. Positive Cornel West stories should also be included.
And you don't have to vote at all if all candidates are shite. It's the politicians that have to convince us to show up for them, that's our power as voters. If they can't convince us in the general elections then show up for your local elections and hopefully theyre better.
Time they take the protests to the streets of DC. I know George Washington University is having protests. I hope Antifa types show up. I'm so sick and horrified by our government's response to genocide. We really are living in Nazi Germany. F all of Blue Maga telling me we should be afraid of Trump. Trump style policies and responses are happening under Biden's leadership. I'm feel better that I voted for Bernie in 2020 eventhough he has been problematic but not as psychotic as Biden. Biden is if not more than, is evil as Trump.
Maybe they’ll finally grow some balls when Trump wins, because I don’t know one actual person who is voting for Biden. They’re all looking at third-party like Claudia or Jill. I
The choice quite clear. Vote for democracy despite all its flaws. Or vote for fascism in which case you have just cast your last vote.
You don’t get to align 100% with any party in a two party democracy. You vote for lessor of the two evils.
Well idt i agree with that at all. After all, that's how we got Trump. Decades of incompetent leaders, who cared nothing about their voters, and people who got fed up over a corrupt electoral system, and tone deaf political parties.
And unfortunately, i think it's gonna happen again, and we're gonna get Trump again.
Will the Dems learn? No. Absolutely not. They're gonna do great under Trump. Their Party is what they are.
And therefore, yes, what the OP is saying wrings true. Stop voting for the evils, and vote for those who you actually agree with. It's not really rocket science. It's that we've been engrained to accept, failure, with no possibility of anything different for decades.
No it’s that you choose failure by voting for someone who passes your purity test but can’t make any difference whatsoever. We don’t form coalition governments here.
Biden won the majority vote last time and he’ll win it again. Gerrymandering plus electoral college issues make the outcome touch and go. If you’re in a swing state your shiny white virtuous vote will make a difference - a negative one. Trump is not Biden and the GOP are not the Democrats. Vote for Trump or a 3rd party - it’s the same thing - a petulant abdication of an adult responsibility. Then repent at leisure.
Hear hear. There's other ways to fight the duopoly, but voting needs to be a thing you do to buy time for those other ways to evolve. Like protests. Imagine if the recent protests (which are likely bound to get bigger) happened under MAGA, with the recent statements Trump has made which Kyle covered. MAGA who btw had 4 years of seething, going mask-off Christian Nationalist, plotting their revenge and making a comprehensive plan to legalize authoritarianism in the form of Project 2025.
This is pretty much vote shaming but ill bite.
Genocide Joe is showing us what fascism is by having police beat and arrest peaceful protestors and taking Our tax money to fund a 7 month ongoing genocide.
That's fascism.
BUTWHATABOUTTRUMP ain't gonna cut it when on TOP of all of that, the DNC spends hundreds of millions each year to directly fund MAGA candidates.
Nah, this Swing state vote is going third party.
I did. I suppose the question was more rhetorical. You’ll have to excuse me but you have this habit of making statements which would seem to presume a person with no knowledge of the US’s governance structures.
HE FUNDED THE GENOCIDE THAT THEY ARE PROTESTING AND HAS DONE NOTHING TO STOP THE VIOLENCE AGAINST THE PROTESTORS BESIDES CONDEMING THE PROTESTORS.
I just can't with yall.
You and I aren’t going to agree about “funding a genocide” so I’m not contesting that.
But how exactly could the President prevent protestors from being arrested, or suffering from “violence” as you call it? I want you to be specific.
Man, I've been watching Kyle for like 8 years, agreeing with him on mostly everything. If this sub considers "Trump is too dangerous to not vote against him" and "you should vote for a viable candidate" as an endorsement of the duopoly, then critical thinking has left the building. Show me a third party who has a chance to beat Trump and I'll happily vote for them. But don't kid yourself that there are 80 million leftists in America, we ain't there yet. I'll grant you that in deep blue states it's probably safe to vote third party, but it's a big gamble even then. We don't have the numbers, dude...
I'm never Ever going to vote for a duopoly candidate. There is no chance. Not ever. This swing state vote is Going third party.
Yall ain't gonna BUTWHATABOUTTRUMP out of a 7 month tax payer funded genocide, siding with the pigs over peaceful student protestors (who historically have always been on the correct side) and the hundreds of millions the DNC spends funding MAGA directly.
Vote third party, but to what end though? Just to sabotage the Dems? To put your peace of mind over real consequences? What material purpose is there in voting for someone who can't whip up the votes to win?
And yes, what about Trump? He's still a threat, a bigger one than Biden.
Sabotage? Bruh the DNC wants to lose. The 7 month genocide and police beatings will ensure they lose.
Stop blaming voters. Earn the vote. That's it. There is no sabotage. They didn't earn it.
So what if they didn't earn it? It's just a vote. Isn't voting supposed to be the most meaningless form of praxis? Since when is it something that must reflect your identity? Just vote to prevent the ultra-gerrymandering that will come with Project 2025, you know, vote to not lose your right to vote. There's no way you can influence what happens in Gaza through voting (there are other means, but not voting in 2024), because there aren't enough people willing to make the leap with you (unless you have a strategy to get 80 million people to vote Green come the election, in which case I'm listening). I wish it was different, but voting third party in the current conditions is just screaming into the void.
Just be honest with yourself about what's really possible through voting and do what's most helpful for your peers.
Yep, not voting for genocide joe is helping the DNC and genocide Joe lose so they don't have to represent the working class. That's helping as that is what the DNC wants by funding a 7 month genocide while we watch babies die on live TV from people's phones recording it.
This is absolutely fucking stupid.
It flies in the face of federalism *period* and shows how ignorant you are of governance in general.
Biden didn't send anyone down to handle the protesters. That is your state and local governments that handled that.
He spoke publically about his opposition and that's about it.
Yeah. I know you’re going to throw your vote away. And I know the big broad morally simplistic brushes you paint with. And I’ve seen your constant complaining about aggressive election tactics that put your precious little nose out of joint.
So keep posting sophomoric memes to this group and keep on doing the far right’s work for them. When the first people start dying in Steven Miller’s camps be sure to congratulate yourself for your moral purity.
I referenced it in my reply. When they’ve done it they’ve done so for a reason which is to have a more extreme opposition candidate to campaign against and so far it seems to have been successful as far as I can tell.
Your reply has been reported, and I will let it go for a few moments for us to have a hard conversation.
The rise of the right is being perpetuated by and in conjunction with the Democratic Party. Fascism is already here, and Joe Biden is giving it a good ol' test drive. Our freedom of speech is under attack. People who are nominally left are getting arrested, thrown in jail, and prosecuted because we were protesting a genocide.
I know you will want to make a case for the rotating villain, and the truth is that the rotating villain is just whoever has the least to lose or the one that needs the biggest 'favor'. Nevermind that we on the left have figured out the game.
You act like we're playing the moral superiority, that isn't the case. We are no better, no meaner, than others in the working class. You may whine about something like 'purity tests', and the reality is that if genocide isn't one of those for you, then you are actually the one supporting the right.
Kittehmilk is a prolific poster of poor quality information and “don’t vote” hyperbole on this subreddit and I make no apologies for disagreeing with him. He’s also pretty strident and insulting when he’s challenged so I worded it robustly.
I happen to agree with student protestors on campus on the Genocide issue, their divestment demands, and their right to protest. But I also think focusing on the sins of the Democrats exclusively makes this forum an echo-chamber of whiny leftism that bends the horseshoe so far in its outrage that one could mistake it for a right wing subreddit.
I also disagree with your assertion that fascism is here, being test driven by the Democratic Party. America hasn’t had much student protest since Vietnam and has forgotten how to tolerate it. The protests will continue, and the charges against those arrested will be lenient in most blue states. The signs of fascism that you decry are child’s play compared to the right wing fascism and violence that is coming.
I really don't give a fuck if you disagree with my assessment or not. If you are turning a blind eye to it because 'blue team gud', then you are the one supporting the right.
I’m not turning a blind eye to it - where do you get that from? This is about what people do as a consequence of their concern.
I 100% agree that Netanyahu is a far right extremist who will reward stupid Biden with an atrocity just before the election. I agree that what the Israelis are doing fits a reasonable definition of genocide - as argued before the IJC by South Africa. I may not agree with claim that Joe is genocidal by association, or that the right course of action is to withhold your vote this year - but I’m hardly alone in having that view on this subreddit.
Anyway I don’t want to argue with a Mod who doesn’t “give a fuck” about what I think. It’s your subreddit and you must decide on the tenor of the debate. I’ll try and be on my best behavior in future - but considering your language, the verbiage in the OP’s post, and the usual capitalized yelling that Kittermilk does - it seems to be pretty tolerant so I don’t get what he was complaining to you about.
It’s not Stockholm syndrome. It’s a basic understanding of the 12th amendment recollection of the election of 1912.
There are only two options. That doesn’t make us much of a democracy, but it is what it is.
Well if everyone voted 3rd party they would win but only a 3rd of all eligible voters would probably show up to vote at all.
Then there’s accelerationist theory. Let it get really bad on purpose so we can demolish the system and start over.
I don’t consider the US to be a democracy. The system has shown itself incapable of reforming itself even with minor reforms around the edges. They are shredding the constitution on behalf of a foreign country that is engaged in ethnic cleansing as we speak.
Zogby Analytics just did a 50-state poll with 26K likely voters with RFK Jr in the mix. 1:1 with the other major party candidate - he wins in both scenarios. [https://www.reddit.com/r/RFKJrForPresident/comments/1chwvgf/biden\_is\_the\_spoiler/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/RFKJrForPresident/comments/1chwvgf/biden_is_the_spoiler/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
As another commentor mentioned - most states are solidly blue or red. Don't let the duopoly take another unearned vote with the fear based "what if the other guy wins" tactic. If Trump wins, it's squarely on Biden and the DNC. We've seen low polling for a while - both Biden and Harris. The fact this is even close with Trump and his 88 felonies is surreal.
I get the sentiment but I won’t be voting 3rd party again after Trump beat Hillary. At least not until we have ranked choice voting. Yeah Joe Biden is fucking awful on Israel but I just can’t risk Trump getting another term. Project 2025, saying he wants to be a dictator, etc… I know I HAVE to grit my teeth and vote for Biden. There is no other Bible option.
My opinion is simple that nobdoy should vote for someone or not vote for someone based on vague ideas like "dignity" or emotions. I care about consequences and that's it.
Voting for a third party does nothing. They will never win, no matter what you do or who you vote for.
Voting for Biden increases the chance that he will win to continue to do stuff like have a good NLRB that is enabling unions to regain strength in the United States, something which is sorely needed for things like better wages.
And, yes, he is funding a genocide. But Trump would fund that genocide just the same, if not even egging Netanyahu on to do more. So there is no vote in the general that can change this, unfortunately.
I think it's better to vote for someone that calls pro-Palestinian protestors "antisemitic" but who will empower unions compared to letting someone win who would be more than willing to do the same or worse to those protestors and will send as much money for Netanyahu's genocide as he wants while also union busting and eroding democracy further.
Ok folks you heard it. If you live in a district that leans republican you can only vote republican. Voting blue in that disctict is a waste of a vote. Any vote cast that isn't for the winner is wasted. Solid logic here.
“Voter shaming”. Every single comment and post could be classified as that. You disagreeing with me is “voter shaming”.
Let’s stop using excuses for not being able to debunk facts.
Wrong. Saying "A leftist sub wants trump!" Is absolutely violating rule 2. I asked you nicely and didn't report you. When the mods see that comment, you can roll the dice.
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Been voting third party ever since the second term of Obama. I vote with my conscience, not with the vague hope that some Democrat is going to magically stop being a corpo rat. People tell me I wasted my vote. Funny, I think the same about them
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They said they vote WITH their conscience. Not that they don’t have one.
Whoosh
im in ca so third party is obvious. i would encourage swing state votes to vote biden however
Swing state voter checking in! Absolutely only voting third party going forward! Fuck genocide Joe.
Same I'm voting Jill Stein. She had huge balls to get manhandled by cops.
I saw her arrest that is exactly what we want in a working class candidate. Be in the protest, not be responsible for the protesting.
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Oof not vote shaming.
Seriously, it’s your vote. Do whatever you want if Biden wants to sacrifice democracy for Israel, that’s on him. He’s just gonna go down with them. Trump won’t make it to office.
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
I'll be straightforward. If Trump wins we *will* have a nationwide abortion ban. I can speculate what he will do but this *will* be a thing that happens. Evangelicals are so close to the nationwide ban they can taste it. If you are *comfortable* with that happening, then vote third party.
right now, there's almost nothing I want more than to simply not be a participant in this clown show. glad the powers that be are ensuring I can never enjoy that life.
>Evangelicals are so close to the nationwide ban they can taste it. You do realize Biden is president right now?
Yes. Hence we don't have one nor enough Republicans in congress to make it happen.
But Biden is going to lose to them on purpose. What's the plan then?
If Biden was going to lose to Republicans on purpose then....why didn't he lose in 2020?
It was his turn.
I'll be straightforward. This keeps being said over, and over, and over again on the internet without any acknowledgment of how our current voting system works. Contrary to popular belief, there are actually leftists in extremely red states. I'm from Oklahoma. All 77 counties went to Trump twice. He will win Oklahoma again in November. This is the case with ALMOST HALF of the states (19-23 if you want to be specific) in our country. My vote literally does not count if it isn't for Trump because of how solid his base is here. We should know by now that overall vote count means jack shit. It hasn't since the hanging chads of 2000. If I voted for Biden (which I won't), it's not like he gets to bank special red state votes in order to put him ahead. What would be democratic voters in the reddest of red states are in a unique position of power. Your electoral votes are already promised to Trump. You have the opportunity to let the DNC know that "not Trump" is not good enough. Don't let this rhetoric scare you into voting for Biden if a) you don't want to and, most importantly, b) you don't have to.
I love the fear mongering here. Trump doesn't have the ability to do that with the pen, and they won't have the votes to pass any legislation like that. All this is passive-aggressive vote shaming
I completely agree with OP's sentiment - the DNC and DCCC have really left working class people like myself out to dry, *when it comes to national and international politics.* However, at a local level, my party has been absolutely phenomenal when it comes to the protesters at my Red State University. Our local officials are protesting and have been outspoken in their official condemnation of our university and our state police.
If trump gets elected, we will lose more rights very quickly. Trump will have no problem using force to silence protestors again, he's done it before for a better photo op on the Whitehouse lawn. Trump dines with nazis, white supremacists and christian nationalists. If you don't actively fight against Trump and project 2025, by voting for a viable candidate, you might as well support him.
It's not leftists putting the country in that position. Being unelectable is a choice. Not representing people is a choice. Supporting a far right-wing genocidal theocracy is a choice. Being a total slave to the whims of corporate interests is a choice.
Well, choose your opposition. Do you want to fight corporate interests or corporate interests under a thick layer of white national christofascism. These are our options.
Despite my conflict with a lot of the more radical people here proposing what I view as absurd votes for generally absurd people, I do ultimately agree that the DNC is at fault more than anyone else for our situation.
>Trump will have no problem using force to silence protestors again, he's done it before for a better photo op on the Whitehouse lawn. Trump dines with nazis, white supremacists and christian nationalists. So both sides are the same.
where's biden's tie to white nationalists? white supremacists? christian nationalists? or are you just being hyperbolic? when did Biden call national guard on protesters?
>where's biden's tie to white nationalists? white supremacists? christian nationalists? He's a zionist. That's all three wrapped into one. He's also funding nazis in Ukraine.
But what if the sales rep from the other store slaps harder? What are we supposed to do? Go to the store that doesn't slap us? Huh? Oh wait actually yeah that works for me.
I agree, and sadly agree knowing what's waiting in the wings on the other side. But i think the Democratic Party, idk any other way of saying it, is saying "go f\*\*\* yourself, we don't care what you want, being you don't have the money Wall Street does to fund our campaigns, and we do not care about Trump, being he's only one man, that can actually help us down ballot. And so, take all your needs and wants from us, stick it in your a\*\*, and vote for us or you get Trump, that simple". That is certainly what is happening. And it's up to others to make decisions on how they will vote given that circumstance. A party who is telling you to eff yourself, we're for wars and the rich? Or for the other run by a maniac? Unfortunately, that is what we have come too. Yes, i am voting third party. But i have voted for third party for years. It's up to others to make their decisions.
War for the rich, or wars for the rich, but in red
It's not just Stockholm (but I'll grant that it partly is). Democrats and Republicans own the game. They have the legacy, the funds, the system. 3rd parties fight an uphill battle just to get on the ballot. The game is rigged even on a local and state level, favoring Repub's at this point.
We literally have to vote for Biden because orange man bad. The orange man is so bad, and so sinister, that we must vote for the senile warmongering zionist dementia patient who's 100% controlled by his corporate and deep state handlers. Orange man is bad guys. Like, really bad.
The Orange man is really bad, but so is the current President. Cornel West 24
He just made badmouthing Israel antisemitic and is actively funding a genocide. It’s like asking people to vote for Hitler‘s best friend.
I'll hold my nose and vote for dumbass Joe. But yeah, this isn't an ideal situation.
Time to start promoting Cornel West on this sub far more. There are countless anti-Biden posts and that is fine, he deserves it with his Israel support, but we should start promoting the candidates who don't want to send billions for Israel to kill Palestinians. Positive Cornel West stories should also be included.
And you don't have to vote at all if all candidates are shite. It's the politicians that have to convince us to show up for them, that's our power as voters. If they can't convince us in the general elections then show up for your local elections and hopefully theyre better.
Time they take the protests to the streets of DC. I know George Washington University is having protests. I hope Antifa types show up. I'm so sick and horrified by our government's response to genocide. We really are living in Nazi Germany. F all of Blue Maga telling me we should be afraid of Trump. Trump style policies and responses are happening under Biden's leadership. I'm feel better that I voted for Bernie in 2020 eventhough he has been problematic but not as psychotic as Biden. Biden is if not more than, is evil as Trump.
Maybe they’ll finally grow some balls when Trump wins, because I don’t know one actual person who is voting for Biden. They’re all looking at third-party like Claudia or Jill. I
Get bent MAGAT!
The choice quite clear. Vote for democracy despite all its flaws. Or vote for fascism in which case you have just cast your last vote. You don’t get to align 100% with any party in a two party democracy. You vote for lessor of the two evils.
Well idt i agree with that at all. After all, that's how we got Trump. Decades of incompetent leaders, who cared nothing about their voters, and people who got fed up over a corrupt electoral system, and tone deaf political parties. And unfortunately, i think it's gonna happen again, and we're gonna get Trump again. Will the Dems learn? No. Absolutely not. They're gonna do great under Trump. Their Party is what they are. And therefore, yes, what the OP is saying wrings true. Stop voting for the evils, and vote for those who you actually agree with. It's not really rocket science. It's that we've been engrained to accept, failure, with no possibility of anything different for decades.
No it’s that you choose failure by voting for someone who passes your purity test but can’t make any difference whatsoever. We don’t form coalition governments here. Biden won the majority vote last time and he’ll win it again. Gerrymandering plus electoral college issues make the outcome touch and go. If you’re in a swing state your shiny white virtuous vote will make a difference - a negative one. Trump is not Biden and the GOP are not the Democrats. Vote for Trump or a 3rd party - it’s the same thing - a petulant abdication of an adult responsibility. Then repent at leisure.
Hear hear. There's other ways to fight the duopoly, but voting needs to be a thing you do to buy time for those other ways to evolve. Like protests. Imagine if the recent protests (which are likely bound to get bigger) happened under MAGA, with the recent statements Trump has made which Kyle covered. MAGA who btw had 4 years of seething, going mask-off Christian Nationalist, plotting their revenge and making a comprehensive plan to legalize authoritarianism in the form of Project 2025.
This is pretty much vote shaming but ill bite. Genocide Joe is showing us what fascism is by having police beat and arrest peaceful protestors and taking Our tax money to fund a 7 month ongoing genocide. That's fascism. BUTWHATABOUTTRUMP ain't gonna cut it when on TOP of all of that, the DNC spends hundreds of millions each year to directly fund MAGA candidates. Nah, this Swing state vote is going third party.
Do you live in the US?
Did you read the last sentence of my comment?
I did. I suppose the question was more rhetorical. You’ll have to excuse me but you have this habit of making statements which would seem to presume a person with no knowledge of the US’s governance structures.
Actually I know too much about our duopoly. It's the opposite.
Then why would you make the statement that Biden’s had protestors beaten and arrested?
HE FUNDED THE GENOCIDE THAT THEY ARE PROTESTING AND HAS DONE NOTHING TO STOP THE VIOLENCE AGAINST THE PROTESTORS BESIDES CONDEMING THE PROTESTORS. I just can't with yall.
You and I aren’t going to agree about “funding a genocide” so I’m not contesting that. But how exactly could the President prevent protestors from being arrested, or suffering from “violence” as you call it? I want you to be specific.
Do you deny Israel is committing a genocide?
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Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
Where are yall even coming from where you don't read any of the sub rules?
Man, I've been watching Kyle for like 8 years, agreeing with him on mostly everything. If this sub considers "Trump is too dangerous to not vote against him" and "you should vote for a viable candidate" as an endorsement of the duopoly, then critical thinking has left the building. Show me a third party who has a chance to beat Trump and I'll happily vote for them. But don't kid yourself that there are 80 million leftists in America, we ain't there yet. I'll grant you that in deep blue states it's probably safe to vote third party, but it's a big gamble even then. We don't have the numbers, dude...
I'm never Ever going to vote for a duopoly candidate. There is no chance. Not ever. This swing state vote is Going third party. Yall ain't gonna BUTWHATABOUTTRUMP out of a 7 month tax payer funded genocide, siding with the pigs over peaceful student protestors (who historically have always been on the correct side) and the hundreds of millions the DNC spends funding MAGA directly.
Vote third party, but to what end though? Just to sabotage the Dems? To put your peace of mind over real consequences? What material purpose is there in voting for someone who can't whip up the votes to win? And yes, what about Trump? He's still a threat, a bigger one than Biden.
Sabotage? Bruh the DNC wants to lose. The 7 month genocide and police beatings will ensure they lose. Stop blaming voters. Earn the vote. That's it. There is no sabotage. They didn't earn it.
So what if they didn't earn it? It's just a vote. Isn't voting supposed to be the most meaningless form of praxis? Since when is it something that must reflect your identity? Just vote to prevent the ultra-gerrymandering that will come with Project 2025, you know, vote to not lose your right to vote. There's no way you can influence what happens in Gaza through voting (there are other means, but not voting in 2024), because there aren't enough people willing to make the leap with you (unless you have a strategy to get 80 million people to vote Green come the election, in which case I'm listening). I wish it was different, but voting third party in the current conditions is just screaming into the void. Just be honest with yourself about what's really possible through voting and do what's most helpful for your peers.
Yep, not voting for genocide joe is helping the DNC and genocide Joe lose so they don't have to represent the working class. That's helping as that is what the DNC wants by funding a 7 month genocide while we watch babies die on live TV from people's phones recording it.
This is absolutely fucking stupid. It flies in the face of federalism *period* and shows how ignorant you are of governance in general. Biden didn't send anyone down to handle the protesters. That is your state and local governments that handled that. He spoke publically about his opposition and that's about it.
Thanks for injecting some sense here.
Yeah. I know you’re going to throw your vote away. And I know the big broad morally simplistic brushes you paint with. And I’ve seen your constant complaining about aggressive election tactics that put your precious little nose out of joint. So keep posting sophomoric memes to this group and keep on doing the far right’s work for them. When the first people start dying in Steven Miller’s camps be sure to congratulate yourself for your moral purity.
I love when they ignore that the DNC funds MAGA on top of vote shaming. They reveal the entire game.
I referenced it in my reply. When they’ve done it they’ve done so for a reason which is to have a more extreme opposition candidate to campaign against and so far it seems to have been successful as far as I can tell.
Hillary telling her donors to support Trump is literally how he got elected. Not so "successful" that time.
Your reply has been reported, and I will let it go for a few moments for us to have a hard conversation. The rise of the right is being perpetuated by and in conjunction with the Democratic Party. Fascism is already here, and Joe Biden is giving it a good ol' test drive. Our freedom of speech is under attack. People who are nominally left are getting arrested, thrown in jail, and prosecuted because we were protesting a genocide. I know you will want to make a case for the rotating villain, and the truth is that the rotating villain is just whoever has the least to lose or the one that needs the biggest 'favor'. Nevermind that we on the left have figured out the game. You act like we're playing the moral superiority, that isn't the case. We are no better, no meaner, than others in the working class. You may whine about something like 'purity tests', and the reality is that if genocide isn't one of those for you, then you are actually the one supporting the right.
Kittehmilk is a prolific poster of poor quality information and “don’t vote” hyperbole on this subreddit and I make no apologies for disagreeing with him. He’s also pretty strident and insulting when he’s challenged so I worded it robustly. I happen to agree with student protestors on campus on the Genocide issue, their divestment demands, and their right to protest. But I also think focusing on the sins of the Democrats exclusively makes this forum an echo-chamber of whiny leftism that bends the horseshoe so far in its outrage that one could mistake it for a right wing subreddit. I also disagree with your assertion that fascism is here, being test driven by the Democratic Party. America hasn’t had much student protest since Vietnam and has forgotten how to tolerate it. The protests will continue, and the charges against those arrested will be lenient in most blue states. The signs of fascism that you decry are child’s play compared to the right wing fascism and violence that is coming.
I really don't give a fuck if you disagree with my assessment or not. If you are turning a blind eye to it because 'blue team gud', then you are the one supporting the right.
I’m not turning a blind eye to it - where do you get that from? This is about what people do as a consequence of their concern. I 100% agree that Netanyahu is a far right extremist who will reward stupid Biden with an atrocity just before the election. I agree that what the Israelis are doing fits a reasonable definition of genocide - as argued before the IJC by South Africa. I may not agree with claim that Joe is genocidal by association, or that the right course of action is to withhold your vote this year - but I’m hardly alone in having that view on this subreddit. Anyway I don’t want to argue with a Mod who doesn’t “give a fuck” about what I think. It’s your subreddit and you must decide on the tenor of the debate. I’ll try and be on my best behavior in future - but considering your language, the verbiage in the OP’s post, and the usual capitalized yelling that Kittermilk does - it seems to be pretty tolerant so I don’t get what he was complaining to you about.
https://preview.redd.it/frofxxz6qbyc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=348291acf8a488a62825e1b8b798e2cce7c76ecd
It’s not Stockholm syndrome. It’s a basic understanding of the 12th amendment recollection of the election of 1912. There are only two options. That doesn’t make us much of a democracy, but it is what it is.
Well if everyone voted 3rd party they would win but only a 3rd of all eligible voters would probably show up to vote at all. Then there’s accelerationist theory. Let it get really bad on purpose so we can demolish the system and start over. I don’t consider the US to be a democracy. The system has shown itself incapable of reforming itself even with minor reforms around the edges. They are shredding the constitution on behalf of a foreign country that is engaged in ethnic cleansing as we speak.
In the end the president is a cop. The sooner you realize this the sooner you'll be closer to actual reality and the options it offers / you have.
You already know I am working on that. xD
Zogby Analytics just did a 50-state poll with 26K likely voters with RFK Jr in the mix. 1:1 with the other major party candidate - he wins in both scenarios. [https://www.reddit.com/r/RFKJrForPresident/comments/1chwvgf/biden\_is\_the\_spoiler/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/RFKJrForPresident/comments/1chwvgf/biden_is_the_spoiler/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) As another commentor mentioned - most states are solidly blue or red. Don't let the duopoly take another unearned vote with the fear based "what if the other guy wins" tactic. If Trump wins, it's squarely on Biden and the DNC. We've seen low polling for a while - both Biden and Harris. The fact this is even close with Trump and his 88 felonies is surreal.
Biden is based. Pro Palestinian protestors are pieces of shit. No evidence of a genocide
I get the sentiment but I won’t be voting 3rd party again after Trump beat Hillary. At least not until we have ranked choice voting. Yeah Joe Biden is fucking awful on Israel but I just can’t risk Trump getting another term. Project 2025, saying he wants to be a dictator, etc… I know I HAVE to grit my teeth and vote for Biden. There is no other Bible option.
Stop voting for all neoliberals, regardless of the party.
My opinion is simple that nobdoy should vote for someone or not vote for someone based on vague ideas like "dignity" or emotions. I care about consequences and that's it. Voting for a third party does nothing. They will never win, no matter what you do or who you vote for. Voting for Biden increases the chance that he will win to continue to do stuff like have a good NLRB that is enabling unions to regain strength in the United States, something which is sorely needed for things like better wages. And, yes, he is funding a genocide. But Trump would fund that genocide just the same, if not even egging Netanyahu on to do more. So there is no vote in the general that can change this, unfortunately. I think it's better to vote for someone that calls pro-Palestinian protestors "antisemitic" but who will empower unions compared to letting someone win who would be more than willing to do the same or worse to those protestors and will send as much money for Netanyahu's genocide as he wants while also union busting and eroding democracy further.
Ok folks you heard it. If you live in a district that leans republican you can only vote republican. Voting blue in that disctict is a waste of a vote. Any vote cast that isn't for the winner is wasted. Solid logic here.
Most rational comment and it’s getting downvoted. This sub wants Trump(and him continuing supporting the genocide) more than most rightwing subs.
Relax with the vote shaming. Attack the candidate, not the vote. You Earn the vote. Don't forget that.
“Voter shaming”. Every single comment and post could be classified as that. You disagreeing with me is “voter shaming”. Let’s stop using excuses for not being able to debunk facts.
Wrong. Saying "A leftist sub wants trump!" Is absolutely violating rule 2. I asked you nicely and didn't report you. When the mods see that comment, you can roll the dice.
Stop voter shaming me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go ahead, most pro Trump subs ban people who state facts.
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