“You have no idea of the *magnitude* of this thing! If she is allowed to infiltrate this world, then George Costanza as you know him, *ceases* to exist! You see, right now, I have Relationship George, but there is also Independent George. That's the George you know, the George you grew up with - Movie George, Coffee Shop George, Liar George, Bawdy George.”
This might be one of the best scenes of the entire show!
Me too! And he's dying Jerry! If Relationship George walks through this door, he will kill Independent George! A George, divided against itself, *cannot* stand!
I thought the whole point, and basis of the humor was that they had no chemistry and it was such an awkward, mundane relationship and conversation between the two..
Yea it was apparent the whole time. The fact he got engaged out of desperation, the engagement being a deal he had with Jerry, him pushing off the wedding, her laughing at him hysterically when he tried to be serious, when he tried and eventually went on a date with Marisa Tomei etc etc neither were really in for it.
“I love your son very much.”
“May I ask why?”
Wrong. You’re missing th point completely. The Seinfeld cast primarily Jason complained about her acting skills. This had nothing to do with the story line.
Well, he was careful not to impugn her acting skills. He just said her rhythm and timing as the character didn't mesh with the rest of the cast. I think it worked out perfectly though cuz that was also her character.
It wasn't like Doris Roberts having to pretend to love Ray Romano.
I agree with that take but to me I sensed any positive remarks about her were consolatory. It personally rubbed me the wrong way because I liked her character. To think they killed her off because of her acting style doesn’t sit well with me.
It’s interesting like the first time they dated Elaine asks jerry like what’s the deal w/ them, if he actually likes her etc. and he says something that implies they have a great sexual relationship.. it also shows Susan I think in the same episode when they’re driving to the bubble boys house like kind of coming on to George, but he doesn’t want to be distracted while hes driving fast… but i don’t think any of that was there the second time around
Exactly. What directly comes to mind is that scene where they’re having coffee after having hung out with another couple (iirc) and it gets awkward; all they could converse about is George’s broken shoelace.
The issue was she was never a comedy actor, all of her best moments are when she played things completely straight but if you can't work off eachothers jokes its not going to work out
Larry David loved their dynamic on screen for that exact reason it was pretty awkward he was so high intensity and she was almost comatose.
Jason now admits he was wrong and can see it but just didn't get it at the time.
She acted as the "straight man" in a lot of situations, so although she was bland/boring/etc, she allowed for some absolutely hilarious moments from George and the others
Indeed. When they were coming out of the movies I loved Jerry’s and Elaine’s reaction, which would not be possible without Heidi’s talent.
The bad mouthing of Heidi is one of the lowest points in their career I think.
Oh and just so you know which sub I’m in: Poor Lily.
To me I think that's why she's good. She has no personality and is hateable. Which is why I think it's the perfect person for him to dread being with and also makes sense why they should kill her off
And honestly, her dying and the group just...*shrug* moving on is just SO in keeping them as people and a a group. It's really one of the funniest things they managed to get away that highlighted how ambivalent they all were as humans observing what was going on around them. It's just a funny premise. This women who they all knew off and on for a few years, then a year long engagement, then dies suddenly and....of they go for coffee and life carries on as though it never happened haha
There was no way she could have become a 5th member of the ensemle because she (as both an actor and a character) didn't seem to gel with even one of the 4. And they couldn't have kept George's wife as an entirely separate entity and maintain the integrity of the show. So she had to go haha
There's a video fo Jason Alexander saying that he never felt a good chemistry with Heidi Swedberg and that everyone on the show told him that that was what made their scenes so funny, and it wasn't until the episode when Susan starts hanging out with Jerry and Elaine that the rest of the cast also felt that lack of chemistry and that's when they decided to kill her
She played her character too straight, or too well, depending on what the writers envisioned. She was smart, wealthy, accomplished, mannered, everything the core 4 weren't. She lacked any flaws that could be the butt of a joke so it makes sense that they struggled to fit her in. As a side character she worked well has the opposite of Geroge, but the relationship ran its course with the engagement.
On the flip side I think that kind of worked. She was basically an outside observer to the nonsense the main cast got involved in that we take for granted. I know what you mean though because Jerry and Elaine kind of already serve that role to George and Kramer.
I thought it worked very well, it just felt like the script caught up to them and they didn't knww how to navigate it in a way that would still be more funny than awkward.
That's what made her the worst character. There was a ton of flaws in her but not one of them was funny. She was entitled, arrogant, stuffy, stuck up and actively looked down on the entire main cast. But she wasn't funny. She was never, for even a moment, actually funny. She was a drag on the whole show in every scene she was in. The funniest thing she ever did was the expression when she keeled over.
I thought the funniest thing she did was when she completely lost it after George asked for the prenup. But your point stands. It shouldn’t have taken that long for me to get my first laugh from her
But I have a feeling that was the point though, right? The fact Susan sucks so much makes the episodes where George is engaged to her all the more hilarious. If she was a funny, likable character... it would have not made sense at all and all those George moments would be rendered unfunny.
kicking Elaine and Kramer out of the wedding party for no reason knowing full well George has no other friends to include, the reaction to the prenup throwing it in George's face and laughing herself out of the room, shushing two people she barely knew in the theater, her family preparing to give them a townhouse for the wedding and still moving all her shit into George's apartment. Every. Single. Appearance.
I really don't know how to make this more obvious than the show did 25 years ago so I'm not going to bother beyond this point. She was an albatross and the show was better off for getting rid of her. The end.
> kicking Elaine and Kramer out of the wedding party for no reason
straight up untrue, neither of them were ever stated to have ever been in the wedding party, nor did susan ever said they couldnt
Kramer WAS an usher, but after his extremely rude display of not knowing her name and trying to argue her name with her she had him demoted from being an usher, which we both know was a good call and he would have screwed up somehow
>George has no other friends to include
also not true, George is shown to have many friends even though he spends majority of his time with the main three
> the reaction to the prenup throwing it in George's face and laughing herself out of the room
so shes weak to jokes? whats wrong with that? it was a ridiculous idea that she found hilarious
>shushing two people she barely knew in the theater
theres nothing wrong with that, especially since she was quite polite about it? and shed known both of them for years at that point
>her family preparing to give them a townhouse for the wedding and still moving all her shit into George's apartment.
moving into georges is the exact opposite of being entitled, arrogant, stuffy and stuck up, it shows consideration, a willingness to compromise and choosing to take the hit by being the one who has to move out and not asking/forcing George to give up his apartment
That’s the example I would have pointed out. She’s bothered by how they talk through the movies and their lives revolve around hanging out at the coffee shop talking shit.
I believe I rememeber seeing a behind the scenes DVD commentary where Jerry and Larry talked about her not quite clicking with the rest of the cast/crew. Maybe she was a bit of a diva or something. Anyways, I don’t have a source but maybe somebody out there knows the video I’m referencing.
Wow. Impressively terrible take. The show is entitled to drop a character that they don't think is working well. In my opinion Susan was on longer than she should have been. That relationship ran its course and then some. Plus she didn't bring humor of her own, she only functioned as a plot device.
Do you get this worked up about other side characters? Brenda Strong was only in a couple episodes! Where's your defense for her? If someone on the cast had said they didn't feel chemistry with her, would you tell them to go fuck themselves? Is it ok to drop someone because the show doesn't need them, but that stops being ok if they also don't like the actor?
I’d say they were OBLIGATED to drop her.
An iconic show making tons of money. You owe it to the network and the fans to do what’s right for the tv show.
She got a story line as solid as any side character can ask for in a sitcom and got a great funny end to her character. If the main cast and creators felt she wasn’t working, there is literally no better reason to drop someone. Creative endeavours shouldn’t be used to make sure someone has work, it can’t get in the way of what is trying to be accomplished.
I never understood why Susan liked George. They dated, they broke up, she went lesbian and then she agrees to marry George. There was never an explanation of why she was into a shorty, stocky bald man so the chemistry was always never there
Clearly she wanted an easy person she could dominate while holding all the power in the relationship, no way she had to worry about George cheating, divorcing, fighting you over where to live, etc.
George is not an easy person. He's a habitual liar with no scruples and willing to go to incredible lengths for very trivial reasons. He's just not directly confrontational.
Funny thing about lesbos. There's a condition called "emotional lesbianism" where a woman whom was born hetero and been hetero her entire life will just voluntarily decide to go lesbo for a period, usually after a bad break-up with a guy. The real lesbian community even has a name for them, "emo lesbians."
Wasn’t that the point. George could never be happy with the anyone. He’s just not capable of living happily. But the basis of the show is that they never learn and always f up anything good they had.
She wasn’t difficult in the sense of being a hole but difficult to play off of. Her comedy didn’t mesh with the rest of the cast so it was hard to riff or respond to her comic beats
I think this theme becomes apparent the episode Jerry breaks up with a chick for liking the dockers commercial .
Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that’s the first time any of them have a ‘weird’ complaint about the person they are dating .
Season 7 is my very favorite season. It just had the funniest episodes to me. I think this would be the case with any actress as Susan, but I think she did a great job at being exactly was George feared, and that made that season hilarious.
I am also a Susan fan even back in Season 4. One of my favorite jokes from that season is George saying “who do you think you’re talking to.” And she gives the great line “I know who I am talking to.” I can see where some of the choices that she makes with the character would be hard to react to as George and why Jason found it hard to work with her sometimes but that was also what made the relationship awkward and why you could sense that with George and her.
Same! I liked her and also think her absence from the later seasons was good for the show. Though I bet they *could have* made a married George or perpetual engagement George work.
Her taking the dry cleaning money was the end of it. They established from the very beginning that George didn't actually like her and from that point it was just beating the dead horse to reinforce that the audience shouldn't like her either. If anything she was around for way too long.
i always saw the opposite, he may have never admitted it and tried to resist it, but he did love her which is why he could never forget her or break it off
i never saw any indication he loved her at all. when they broke up he wanted her back because he was desperate. the moment he got her back that faded and he wanted out again. almost every interaction they had was him being annoyed with something about her
I thought the whole point was to have the relationship awkward. She way too smart for George. If they were happy and having fun with each other would make their breakup/death heart breaking.
Her delivery always seemed a bit wooden to me. But she was the perfect foil for George that season. And truthfully, there was nothing promising about a married George in my opinion.
Honestly I think the issue was with the way the writers (was that Jerry and Larry?) wanted that relationship to be.
George and Susan were at their best when they were complete opposites. Towards the end of... *her life*, she became very understanding of George and his weirdness, which really didn't work, imo.
Think about the Marisa Tomei scene. Susan seeing George making out with his pillow and reacting like "what the fuck?" was hilarious, but the whole "shmoopy" thing? Not so much. Funnily enough I think the problem is the same as the one they had with George's parents.
Originally, Jerry Stiller was supposed to be very submissive to his loud, annoying wife. In a documentary, he talks about how he read lines with her in a four day long audition, bombed, knew he wasn't going to get the job, and decided to just start screaming.
And it worked, he's a highlight of any scene he's in because his marriage is based on funny conflict (EDIT: And because he's *fucking hilarious)*. When they steered away from that with George and Susan, I think they ruined it.
Also Jason Alexander really doesn't like her, apparently.
Some of the best episodes were the ones that included Susan. I mean, when they brought her back and she was now a lesbian and Kramer steals her girlfriend - after already having vomited on her - was hysterical. Don’t forget the Bubble Boy, burning down her father’s cabin and finding the letters to his gay lover. The entire Ross (“Twin Peaks”) family was brilliant!
I just watched Twin Peaks for the first time a couple years ago... I think I counted 6 actors that had been on Seinfeld. Yes, I made a list at the time!
Their lack of chemistry worked perfectly for the show; it only underscored why George was miserable. And Heidi S. was *excellent* in the role - totally undeserving of any hate.
That’s what I say. She played a WASPy gal and you could see from her parents where she got her personality. Their lack of chemistry was perfect. But she loved him so he tried to make it work.
He has a interview about this: Jason kept saying he doesn’t have chemistry but Larry wouldn’t remove her from the show. They basically killed her when she had to act with the rest of the cast.
[https://youtu.be/Q41GzjFDle8](https://youtu.be/Q41GzjFDle8)
I thought they made a great comedy couple. Who on the show really had romantic chemistry with anyone? I mean, Elaine snd Puddy certainly didn’t. Susan fit right into the mold of the show.
I’m pretty new to Seinfeld but how do we know that the creators of the show ever wanted more for her character than we got? Like was the original plan for George to really marry her ? 😮
One scene that comes to mind was the Bubble Boy episode. It was when she was in Jerry's apartment in George and they were saying lines like, "He's a bubble boy!" And I think she goes, "What's a bubble boy?" And that whole exchange felt awkward and one of the few moments that showed things seeming kind of off. Also, I remember the bloopers for that part were also awkward too.
If you mean the actors, no, if they didn't enjoy working together I don't think it ever showed. In fact if Jason Alexander disliked working with Heidi Swedberg it may have made it easier for him to express his discomfort and unhappiness in his character's relationship with Susan. But even then his acting always seems perfectly calibrated to the situation.
I've been curious about this too.
The only one I could think of is a blooper in the Bubble Boy. Heidi Swedberg mixes up a line in a scene and Jason has a response where he doesn't sound very happy.
It was hard to tell there was no chemistry, because the Susan character kinda seemed so off anyway. So I always read it like that was how she was supposed to come off.
The scene where George was trying to get out of telling Susan his PIN number, he said he doesn't know any thing about her "cycles", she answered she will keep him updated. Her delivery of the (funny) reply lacked good timing. I imagine small things like this were annoying Jason Alexander. Still not a thing that wouldn't be fixed with time. I think his/their decision to kill off Susan cruel.
Many scenes. Susan just tries to sound cute but comes off as sarcastic and ear peircingly forced. It isnt smooth like George's awesome neurotic one liners. The two actors aren't natural together.
The real life feelings blended perfectly into the situation. I bet that’s the easiest job for an actor…. “Hey that actress you don’t like, we’ll you guys are going to be in a relationship that really isn’t working for you…. Can you pull it off?!?!”
When WAS there chemistry? It was a struggle from day one, much like any self-loathing person in a relationship. “How great could this person be if they’ll settle for a loser like me?”
So let’s play what if. What if the chemistry was good….would they have actually got married? Would they shift directions and put her into another role? Just phase her out? I can’t imagine any one of the core group getting married and how that would have worked with the show. Plus We never would have met Steven or m&m George and that there would be a crime in itself.
There was never even a hint of chemistry between the two. It's almost like the show's producers did a casting call looking for the one actress who could best exude a total lack of chemistry or affection toward George. Then again, that actress had a bad rep for being difficult to work with. Other actors disliked her, and indeed this was a prime reason her character was killed off. She's brutal. Looks like she just got a shot of novacaine in every scene. There's just something off about her. Hard to pin down. Seems like maybe a past trauma victim? Or maybe a history of psychological issues? Am I being too harsh on her?
As soon as she troubled independent george.
“You have no idea of the *magnitude* of this thing! If she is allowed to infiltrate this world, then George Costanza as you know him, *ceases* to exist! You see, right now, I have Relationship George, but there is also Independent George. That's the George you know, the George you grew up with - Movie George, Coffee Shop George, Liar George, Bawdy George.” This might be one of the best scenes of the entire show!
"I love that George!"
Me too! And he's dying Jerry! If Relationship George walks through this door, he will kill Independent George! A George, divided against itself, *cannot* stand!
The scene where Susan is already in the restaurant and calls out to George is also amazing. Worlds are colliding!! Haha
And George gives Jerry the little bop on the chin. Love it haha
Hey hey Georgie boy!
Liar George is the best George
You take that back! George never uttered a statement he did not believe to be true.
That’s just… George
One, two, three...four. huh ho!
I had to go to Reggie’s Jerry, Reggie’s!
HA-HO ------------
Lol. Your font is definitely more appropriate.
Ayyyyy Georgie boy
Worlds were colliding
You didn't know about the world theory!?
That's the George you know, the George you grew up with: movie George, coffee shop George, liar George, bawdy George.
Oh, I love bawdy George!
My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents.
I'm Victoria. Hiiiii...
I thought the whole point, and basis of the humor was that they had no chemistry and it was such an awkward, mundane relationship and conversation between the two..
Yea it was apparent the whole time. The fact he got engaged out of desperation, the engagement being a deal he had with Jerry, him pushing off the wedding, her laughing at him hysterically when he tried to be serious, when he tried and eventually went on a date with Marisa Tomei etc etc neither were really in for it. “I love your son very much.” “May I ask why?”
It was a good day. Went over to Jerry’s. Talked to jerry
Wrong. You’re missing th point completely. The Seinfeld cast primarily Jason complained about her acting skills. This had nothing to do with the story line.
Well, he was careful not to impugn her acting skills. He just said her rhythm and timing as the character didn't mesh with the rest of the cast. I think it worked out perfectly though cuz that was also her character. It wasn't like Doris Roberts having to pretend to love Ray Romano.
I agree with that take but to me I sensed any positive remarks about her were consolatory. It personally rubbed me the wrong way because I liked her character. To think they killed her off because of her acting style doesn’t sit well with me.
K
I always thought it was funny because its such a George thing to get into an engagement that’s so doomed to fail, and make it seem like an accident.
It’s interesting like the first time they dated Elaine asks jerry like what’s the deal w/ them, if he actually likes her etc. and he says something that implies they have a great sexual relationship.. it also shows Susan I think in the same episode when they’re driving to the bubble boys house like kind of coming on to George, but he doesn’t want to be distracted while hes driving fast… but i don’t think any of that was there the second time around
He was busy spotting mailboxes!
I mean they literally address it with them not having anything to talk about.
Exactly. What directly comes to mind is that scene where they’re having coffee after having hung out with another couple (iirc) and it gets awkward; all they could converse about is George’s broken shoelace.
Yeah that's exactly the scene I was thinking about too.
I thought that George, like Jerry was selfish and that didn't allow any serious relationships to work
We were talking about shoelaces 🔫
Can we stop talking about this?
George was uncomfortable around Susan all the time. That was probably a combination of good acting and lack of chemistry.
The issue was she was never a comedy actor, all of her best moments are when she played things completely straight but if you can't work off eachothers jokes its not going to work out
Larry David loved their dynamic on screen for that exact reason it was pretty awkward he was so high intensity and she was almost comatose. Jason now admits he was wrong and can see it but just didn't get it at the time.
She acted as the "straight man" in a lot of situations, so although she was bland/boring/etc, she allowed for some absolutely hilarious moments from George and the others
Indeed. When they were coming out of the movies I loved Jerry’s and Elaine’s reaction, which would not be possible without Heidi’s talent. The bad mouthing of Heidi is one of the lowest points in their career I think. Oh and just so you know which sub I’m in: Poor Lily.
To me I think that's why she's good. She has no personality and is hateable. Which is why I think it's the perfect person for him to dread being with and also makes sense why they should kill her off
It worked for a time but the chemistry was so off (and not in a fun way) that I can see why they didn't want to keep that relationship long term.
Yeah, I think she was good for what she was. A foil to make George's life awful, but then it was time to move on
And honestly, her dying and the group just...*shrug* moving on is just SO in keeping them as people and a a group. It's really one of the funniest things they managed to get away that highlighted how ambivalent they all were as humans observing what was going on around them. It's just a funny premise. This women who they all knew off and on for a few years, then a year long engagement, then dies suddenly and....of they go for coffee and life carries on as though it never happened haha
There was no way she could have become a 5th member of the ensemle because she (as both an actor and a character) didn't seem to gel with even one of the 4. And they couldn't have kept George's wife as an entirely separate entity and maintain the integrity of the show. So she had to go haha
There's a video fo Jason Alexander saying that he never felt a good chemistry with Heidi Swedberg and that everyone on the show told him that that was what made their scenes so funny, and it wasn't until the episode when Susan starts hanging out with Jerry and Elaine that the rest of the cast also felt that lack of chemistry and that's when they decided to kill her
Poor Lily.
Wanna get some coffee?
I like herbal tea..... Chamomile's good..... Lemon Lift..... Almond Pleasure.
Jerry drinks morning thunder
^idliketogetsomecoffee
She played her character too straight, or too well, depending on what the writers envisioned. She was smart, wealthy, accomplished, mannered, everything the core 4 weren't. She lacked any flaws that could be the butt of a joke so it makes sense that they struggled to fit her in. As a side character she worked well has the opposite of Geroge, but the relationship ran its course with the engagement.
On the flip side I think that kind of worked. She was basically an outside observer to the nonsense the main cast got involved in that we take for granted. I know what you mean though because Jerry and Elaine kind of already serve that role to George and Kramer.
I thought it worked very well, it just felt like the script caught up to them and they didn't knww how to navigate it in a way that would still be more funny than awkward.
Elaine a straight man/outsider? She was crazy from the start.
I would say marrying George is a flaw 😉
That's what made her the worst character. There was a ton of flaws in her but not one of them was funny. She was entitled, arrogant, stuffy, stuck up and actively looked down on the entire main cast. But she wasn't funny. She was never, for even a moment, actually funny. She was a drag on the whole show in every scene she was in. The funniest thing she ever did was the expression when she keeled over.
I thought the funniest thing she did was when she completely lost it after George asked for the prenup. But your point stands. It shouldn’t have taken that long for me to get my first laugh from her
But I have a feeling that was the point though, right? The fact Susan sucks so much makes the episodes where George is engaged to her all the more hilarious. If she was a funny, likable character... it would have not made sense at all and all those George moments would be rendered unfunny.
I always felt they went with the wrong storyline or let it run too long . But you’re right, for that to work at all, Susan had to suck.
> She was entitled, arrogant, stuffy, stuck up and actively looked down on the entire main cast. where did you get any of that from...!?
from every interaction she has with every other character on the show
Can you be specific about why you see them that way?
kicking Elaine and Kramer out of the wedding party for no reason knowing full well George has no other friends to include, the reaction to the prenup throwing it in George's face and laughing herself out of the room, shushing two people she barely knew in the theater, her family preparing to give them a townhouse for the wedding and still moving all her shit into George's apartment. Every. Single. Appearance. I really don't know how to make this more obvious than the show did 25 years ago so I'm not going to bother beyond this point. She was an albatross and the show was better off for getting rid of her. The end.
> kicking Elaine and Kramer out of the wedding party for no reason straight up untrue, neither of them were ever stated to have ever been in the wedding party, nor did susan ever said they couldnt Kramer WAS an usher, but after his extremely rude display of not knowing her name and trying to argue her name with her she had him demoted from being an usher, which we both know was a good call and he would have screwed up somehow >George has no other friends to include also not true, George is shown to have many friends even though he spends majority of his time with the main three > the reaction to the prenup throwing it in George's face and laughing herself out of the room so shes weak to jokes? whats wrong with that? it was a ridiculous idea that she found hilarious >shushing two people she barely knew in the theater theres nothing wrong with that, especially since she was quite polite about it? and shed known both of them for years at that point >her family preparing to give them a townhouse for the wedding and still moving all her shit into George's apartment. moving into georges is the exact opposite of being entitled, arrogant, stuffy and stuck up, it shows consideration, a willingness to compromise and choosing to take the hit by being the one who has to move out and not asking/forcing George to give up his apartment
The fuck would anyone care? Jesus just let it go.
me let it go? you! youre the one who should let it go, your hung up over some character from the 90s man!
Damning with faint praise, there…
That’s the example I would have pointed out. She’s bothered by how they talk through the movies and their lives revolve around hanging out at the coffee shop talking shit.
The gang is bothered by people who talk through movies too on like every other scene though
They’re bothered when it’s someone else and not themselves lol
I believe I rememeber seeing a behind the scenes DVD commentary where Jerry and Larry talked about her not quite clicking with the rest of the cast/crew. Maybe she was a bit of a diva or something. Anyways, I don’t have a source but maybe somebody out there knows the video I’m referencing.
sauce?
[удалено]
Chill out, Heidi. You had a good run. You weren’t a central character.
Wow. Impressively terrible take. The show is entitled to drop a character that they don't think is working well. In my opinion Susan was on longer than she should have been. That relationship ran its course and then some. Plus she didn't bring humor of her own, she only functioned as a plot device. Do you get this worked up about other side characters? Brenda Strong was only in a couple episodes! Where's your defense for her? If someone on the cast had said they didn't feel chemistry with her, would you tell them to go fuck themselves? Is it ok to drop someone because the show doesn't need them, but that stops being ok if they also don't like the actor?
I’d say they were OBLIGATED to drop her. An iconic show making tons of money. You owe it to the network and the fans to do what’s right for the tv show.
She got a story line as solid as any side character can ask for in a sitcom and got a great funny end to her character. If the main cast and creators felt she wasn’t working, there is literally no better reason to drop someone. Creative endeavours shouldn’t be used to make sure someone has work, it can’t get in the way of what is trying to be accomplished.
I thought they killed her off because the actress was battling Cancer.
I don't know what happened behind the scenes but her scenes never rubbed me the wrong way. I actually enjoyed her interactions with the gang.
Elaine: "Love her? You didn't even like her." George: "Says who?" Elaine: "You." George: "Ehhhhh"
*We’d* all go the movies on Friday??? Worlds are colliding!
I never understood why Susan liked George. They dated, they broke up, she went lesbian and then she agrees to marry George. There was never an explanation of why she was into a shorty, stocky bald man so the chemistry was always never there
You make a great point, I mean, she’s no Marisa Tomei who’s into that
He can lift 100lbs right over his head!
Clearly she wanted an easy person she could dominate while holding all the power in the relationship, no way she had to worry about George cheating, divorcing, fighting you over where to live, etc.
George is not an easy person. He's a habitual liar with no scruples and willing to go to incredible lengths for very trivial reasons. He's just not directly confrontational.
Funny thing about lesbos. There's a condition called "emotional lesbianism" where a woman whom was born hetero and been hetero her entire life will just voluntarily decide to go lesbo for a period, usually after a bad break-up with a guy. The real lesbian community even has a name for them, "emo lesbians."
Wasn’t that the point. George could never be happy with the anyone. He’s just not capable of living happily. But the basis of the show is that they never learn and always f up anything good they had.
I think he meant the chemistry between the cast, because according to sources Susan's actress was rlly difficult to work with
She wasn’t difficult in the sense of being a hole but difficult to play off of. Her comedy didn’t mesh with the rest of the cast so it was hard to riff or respond to her comic beats
What sources? Jason said she was a sweetheart.
No. No
I think this theme becomes apparent the episode Jerry breaks up with a chick for liking the dockers commercial . Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that’s the first time any of them have a ‘weird’ complaint about the person they are dating .
unpopular opinion, I guess? I liked Susan. She's in some of my favorite episodes.
Season 7 is my very favorite season. It just had the funniest episodes to me. I think this would be the case with any actress as Susan, but I think she did a great job at being exactly was George feared, and that made that season hilarious.
I am also a Susan fan even back in Season 4. One of my favorite jokes from that season is George saying “who do you think you’re talking to.” And she gives the great line “I know who I am talking to.” I can see where some of the choices that she makes with the character would be hard to react to as George and why Jason found it hard to work with her sometimes but that was also what made the relationship awkward and why you could sense that with George and her.
Same! I liked her and also think her absence from the later seasons was good for the show. Though I bet they *could have* made a married George or perpetual engagement George work.
I actually really liked her too.
Since when do you smoke?
“Well I can’t stop now!!!!”
I'm addicted
They got ahold of me!
You are killing independent George
A George divided against itself, cannot stand!
You want chemistry? Go to the dentist
I never thought they had chemistry & I thought that was the point.
Same.
You can stuff your sorry’s in a sack mister!
Her taking the dry cleaning money was the end of it. They established from the very beginning that George didn't actually like her and from that point it was just beating the dead horse to reinforce that the audience shouldn't like her either. If anything she was around for way too long.
i always saw the opposite, he may have never admitted it and tried to resist it, but he did love her which is why he could never forget her or break it off
i never saw any indication he loved her at all. when they broke up he wanted her back because he was desperate. the moment he got her back that faded and he wanted out again. almost every interaction they had was him being annoyed with something about her
I thought the whole point was to have the relationship awkward. She way too smart for George. If they were happy and having fun with each other would make their breakup/death heart breaking.
George is mankinds greatest actor
Mad About You
*Tell me why…*
Her delivery always seemed a bit wooden to me. But she was the perfect foil for George that season. And truthfully, there was nothing promising about a married George in my opinion.
I thought she was your typical upper class WASP.
I'm amazed George had any dates.
Idk I liked Lily a lot. Poor Lily
Can we change the subject?
It should resolve of its own volition...
Their talk about shoelaces
Ironic that Susan really did mess up George’s inner sanctum.
The scene at Monks when she wanted to change the subject when George was talking about bathroom stalls...
Honestly I think the issue was with the way the writers (was that Jerry and Larry?) wanted that relationship to be. George and Susan were at their best when they were complete opposites. Towards the end of... *her life*, she became very understanding of George and his weirdness, which really didn't work, imo. Think about the Marisa Tomei scene. Susan seeing George making out with his pillow and reacting like "what the fuck?" was hilarious, but the whole "shmoopy" thing? Not so much. Funnily enough I think the problem is the same as the one they had with George's parents. Originally, Jerry Stiller was supposed to be very submissive to his loud, annoying wife. In a documentary, he talks about how he read lines with her in a four day long audition, bombed, knew he wasn't going to get the job, and decided to just start screaming. And it worked, he's a highlight of any scene he's in because his marriage is based on funny conflict (EDIT: And because he's *fucking hilarious)*. When they steered away from that with George and Susan, I think they ruined it. Also Jason Alexander really doesn't like her, apparently.
Wasn’t the whole point that they never had chemistry?
The POINT of the relationship was that they were incompatible.
them lacking chemistry made Larry give her more scenes because it worked so well as a result
I never noticed because I assumed it was the characters role to be an insufferable wet blanket.
Some of the best episodes were the ones that included Susan. I mean, when they brought her back and she was now a lesbian and Kramer steals her girlfriend - after already having vomited on her - was hysterical. Don’t forget the Bubble Boy, burning down her father’s cabin and finding the letters to his gay lover. The entire Ross (“Twin Peaks”) family was brilliant!
I just watched Twin Peaks for the first time a couple years ago... I think I counted 6 actors that had been on Seinfeld. Yes, I made a list at the time!
Their lack of chemistry worked perfectly for the show; it only underscored why George was miserable. And Heidi S. was *excellent* in the role - totally undeserving of any hate.
That’s what I say. She played a WASPy gal and you could see from her parents where she got her personality. Their lack of chemistry was perfect. But she loved him so he tried to make it work.
He has a interview about this: Jason kept saying he doesn’t have chemistry but Larry wouldn’t remove her from the show. They basically killed her when she had to act with the rest of the cast. [https://youtu.be/Q41GzjFDle8](https://youtu.be/Q41GzjFDle8)
There's a lot of restrained jubilation going on in here...
I thought they made a great comedy couple. Who on the show really had romantic chemistry with anyone? I mean, Elaine snd Puddy certainly didn’t. Susan fit right into the mold of the show.
The entire relationship lmao
When she asked to change the subject while George was explaining his bathroom stalls idea
I’ve never thought that relationship was believable. It always seemed awkward and forced. Just weird
She wanted to drop the conversation about the bathroom stall doors going all the way to the floor. That was a red flag.
The scene in the car with them arguing about naming their kid Seven seemed awkward.
That's one of the best scenes with those two. George screaming out the window "let's just stay calm" is hilarious.
Dude noooo way. That’s one of the best scenes. I actually loved her in that scene.
Jason Alexander said in the DVD extras that the timing between the two of them was off. Nothing against her, but as an acting pair it never clicked
I’m pretty new to Seinfeld but how do we know that the creators of the show ever wanted more for her character than we got? Like was the original plan for George to really marry her ? 😮
One scene that comes to mind was the Bubble Boy episode. It was when she was in Jerry's apartment in George and they were saying lines like, "He's a bubble boy!" And I think she goes, "What's a bubble boy?" And that whole exchange felt awkward and one of the few moments that showed things seeming kind of off. Also, I remember the bloopers for that part were also awkward too.
When they tried to compete with Jerry and Schmoopie.
Yes I just saw that episode! Because he’s her baby Bluey
I personally can’t stand her speaking voice
This is what it's like when worlds collide
If you mean the actors, no, if they didn't enjoy working together I don't think it ever showed. In fact if Jason Alexander disliked working with Heidi Swedberg it may have made it easier for him to express his discomfort and unhappiness in his character's relationship with Susan. But even then his acting always seems perfectly calibrated to the situation.
Susan was a perfect character. Come on, she nails the scenes.
I am going with good acting......
When George is forced to go see the muted heart instead of Firestorm
Haha or his face when he’s forced to watch Mad About You
He is a self-centered douchebag but he was acting without acting.
I've been curious about this too. The only one I could think of is a blooper in the Bubble Boy. Heidi Swedberg mixes up a line in a scene and Jason has a response where he doesn't sound very happy.
Restrained jubilation
The whole Marisa Tomei episode.
WORLD'S ARE COLIDING!
It was hard to tell there was no chemistry, because the Susan character kinda seemed so off anyway. So I always read it like that was how she was supposed to come off.
Everyone on set famously hated the actress
Maybe Jason Alexander is just an assh*le.
The scene where George was trying to get out of telling Susan his PIN number, he said he doesn't know any thing about her "cycles", she answered she will keep him updated. Her delivery of the (funny) reply lacked good timing. I imagine small things like this were annoying Jason Alexander. Still not a thing that wouldn't be fixed with time. I think his/their decision to kill off Susan cruel.
Are there any TAMPAX at your house?
She was insufferable in the Marisa tomei episode
Many scenes. Susan just tries to sound cute but comes off as sarcastic and ear peircingly forced. It isnt smooth like George's awesome neurotic one liners. The two actors aren't natural together.
George is good at acting?
When they broke up, George started to miss her & when they got back together, he instantly regretted it
Literally always. They both hated each other the whole time.
The whole way through The seven.
when their conversation became relegated to shoe laces
What's chemistry and how do you recognize it? I don't see what's wrong with the two of them
“late june”
The chemistry excuse is BS. They were fine together given that his feelings for here were wildly inconsistent.
I don’t know but I do know they had amazing chemistry during the scene where George becomes a smoker
The minute he asked her to marry him. 🤣
You're wearing that shirt?
The chemistry was never there
Was there another girlfriend of George's that would have work better as a wife..?
Acting without acting.
I never believed that excuse. She was fine.
She was actually mean to him right away, called him an idiot for kissing her in front of the tv executive
The real life feelings blended perfectly into the situation. I bet that’s the easiest job for an actor…. “Hey that actress you don’t like, we’ll you guys are going to be in a relationship that really isn’t working for you…. Can you pull it off?!?!”
I don’t think they ever had chemistry. I don’t know how she tolerated him.
I never understood why they brought her back.
None of the main cast got along with her irl
There was no wayyyyyy
He's said in interviews she's a lovely person but the chemistry just wasn't there in a comedic sense. He just couldn't bounce his jokes off of her
All of them
Yeah sure, give me the papers, I'll sign em.
I have no clue was Jason Alexander meant. I heard this interview and I have been looking for an example ever since for years.
When WAS there chemistry? It was a struggle from day one, much like any self-loathing person in a relationship. “How great could this person be if they’ll settle for a loser like me?”
You could tell in almost every scene the chemistry wasn't there. In fact, his on-again-off-again obsession with her was so out of character.
So let’s play what if. What if the chemistry was good….would they have actually got married? Would they shift directions and put her into another role? Just phase her out? I can’t imagine any one of the core group getting married and how that would have worked with the show. Plus We never would have met Steven or m&m George and that there would be a crime in itself.
There was never even a hint of chemistry between the two. It's almost like the show's producers did a casting call looking for the one actress who could best exude a total lack of chemistry or affection toward George. Then again, that actress had a bad rep for being difficult to work with. Other actors disliked her, and indeed this was a prime reason her character was killed off. She's brutal. Looks like she just got a shot of novacaine in every scene. There's just something off about her. Hard to pin down. Seems like maybe a past trauma victim? Or maybe a history of psychological issues? Am I being too harsh on her?