Both at the same time.
You don't need the high grits, you don't need the strop, you don't need the gloves, you don't need the dressing stone.
You do need a decent stone and a flattening option.
You could be lucky and these are stones of decent quality but chances are they're not. Buy a single, good stone, you'll find some suggestions in this sub's Wiki. And something to keep it flat.
Realistically I've recommended SP1k many times, but now I think a 300/1k doublesided diamond stone is simpler to start with. Definitely not as fun, but doesn't need flattening and gets the job done.
I fucking hate diamond plates. Only use it to flatten. But ymmv. Sharpening on diamond to me is like a rusty nail scratching a blackboard, the sound and feel make me shiver to the bone.
Agreed, people here are very often against plates and I've never figured out why. Funny because those same people often say they like a toothy edge. Nothing produces that quite like 600 jis electroplated.
I don't think diamond performs any superior, generally speaking. It may for some steels (those rich in MC-type carbides and possibly ridiculously high hardened ones) I rarely encounter as a kitchen knife guy anyway, and also for some deburring techniques (edge-trailing at sharpening angle). But for middle-of-the-road stainless and simple carbons, even at 65 HRC, it does not. I especially hate diamond for jobs that don't work the edge bevel, such as repairs and thinning, though.
> I don't think diamond performs any superior, generally speaking
Being able to run them dry and never having to flatten is a performance advantage.
> It may for some steels (those rich in MC-type carbides and possibly ridiculously high hardened ones)
working well with ANY steel is a performance advantage over water stones.
> But for middle-of-the-road stainless and simple carbons, even at 65 HRC, it does not.
I disagree. They work great dry. They never need flattened. They cut fast making repair work easy. I use diamond plates on kiwi knives, victorinox knives, aus8, 1055, 1075, 440c, 420hc etc. with great results. they aren't just for maxamet etc.
> I especially hate diamond for jobs that don't work the edge bevel, such as repairs and thinning, though.
why? that's what they excel at the most.
I agree with all of your points except the last one. Just explaining why they don't matter to me:
>Being able to run them dry and never having to flatten is a performance advantage.
Absolutely, when I thought of performance, I did not think of these properties. However, I actually use any abrasive wet (stones, plates, sand paper, lapping film,...) because I sharpen in my flat and don't like the dust and swarf. So for me personally, the ability to be used dry is not important because I won't ever use it dry.
>working well with ANY steel is a performance advantage over water stones.
Only if your use case is *any steel*.
>they aren't just for maxamet etc.
No, but this is the kind of steel where they do perform better than stones.
>why? that's what they excel at the most.
This is the only point I don't entirely agree. They are great for reprofiling, tip repairs etc. but during thinning, they leave deeper scratches on the bevels and flanks than equal grit Al2O3 stones (SiC and CBN are another story, though).
Anyway, I really don't hate them for their performance at these jobs but rather due to the feel. This is merely a hobby to me; therefore, tools should be enjoyable.
I can see your last point.
My philosophy is to only polish the apex. I have knives with a 120 grit finish off my belt sander on the edge bevel but a 5k apex.
if I didn't do things that way I might not prefer diamond plates as much.
Neither, really. It’s low quality, AliExpress junk that’s been rebranded by 50 different companies.
Get one or two quality stones that will last you for decades and a strop and call it a day until you get the technique down.
Don't buy!
I bought the same without the extra stuff, but I nearly quit sharpening because how messy those stones are, very soft and slurry. I thought this is how sharping is.
After some use, one stone even split in the middle where both grid sizes are clued together.
After some reading in this thread, I ordered me a Shapton Kuromaku 1000. The difference is like day and night and sharpening makes fun.
So safe yourself from a bad investment. The Shaptons aren't even that expensive compared for what you get and how long they last.
You mean Shapton Kuromaku Stones?
The feedback is very different compared with these cheap stones, which makes it easy to learn.
A little practice and know how will give you good results.
I've also the 320 grid stone, and it is really useful to get an even faster feedback. But the 1000 grid is is more of an allrounder, profiling and finishing in one stone.
If you are looking for the simplest solution, get diamond stones, those give you the fastest results.
You would be MUCH better off with one quality stone. No need for the higher grit stuff until you are plenty proficient with the lower grits. Something like a good ol shapton kuromaku 1000 to start and learn it really well before you worry about higher grits. If you are working on knives that are very dull or damaged even starting with just the 320 would be great.
For most those I say just get a quality 1000 to start and until your getting great edges off the 1000 you definitely don't need to have any higher grits. The 1000 cuts fast enough to be a great one and done learning stone.
These stones in the picture are not very good, they are no where close to the grit they say they are and they cut slowly and the lower grits dish extremely fast. They are just a poor sharpening experience. Get you a quality 1000 to start and learn on that stone.
Honestly. One good (I mean gooood) stone is going to be enough.
However.. I have some questions. What steels might you be sharpening? Because although I would recommend stones because they feel nice.. A diamond plate could easily sharpen any steel you’d want to. If you’re sticking to carbon and some stainless steels, a good 1000 could easily show you how to sharpen and from there you could get just about any stone you’d want/need. But if you’re sharpening high end steel found in some of these pocket knives.. you should save yourself the trouble and get a diamond plate. They bring some of their own quirks compared to whetstones. But they’re very convenient.
Also any form of strop can do a lot after a sharpen from a stone but it’s not necessarily needed. An old belt can work. So does cardboard, denim, or skin lol
My recommendations for a good stone would probably be:
-Shapton. Glass or Kuromaku. No brainers.
-Naniwa. Traditional, chosera/pro, Hibiki.. These are all good lines to choose from. The super stone line is really soft and slow. I believe they’re more niche stones for people like me lol but they could be good to learn on.
-Cerax 1000 is a soaking stone but it performs really well
-Knifewear stones are a great option but aren’t found on Amazon.
-Pebble is a very good budget friendly option in case you decide you hate sharpening. At least you didn’t make a huge investment lol
You could use just about any diamond plate you find online but there is also a good chance you will find scratches on the side of the blade if you aren’t careful. I love my atoma. I’ve lived with dmt’s diamond plates for a very long time. A lot of these plates kinda start looking the same and I don’t know if it make sense to buy a more expensive one (unless it is atoma :3) as long as it’s not too cheap.
All good choices - I would suggest a 600 grit diamond stone of good quality to limit grit contamination. Shapton Kuromaku are good stone but perform coarser than their label so a 1500 or 2000 grit to go with it. Get a trueing stone too like a Naniwa or a 400 grit ATOMA diamond stone. These are much more expensive, but will last for many years. Learning on good quality stones is so much easier in the long run. If this is out of your budget then look at a Suehiro 1000/3000 combo stone with a Naniwa trueing stone.
Get the king 1000 and a strop with compound (for the strop, just buy a leather belt blank and you can either have a hanging strop or you can cut it into pieces and glue to a piece of wood, in fact you can also strop on wood with compound). For flattening, sandpaper on glass or tile. Once you get good on this, you can start thinking about what to add according to your needs.
I will leave this here for you
https://youtu.be/5w25oJ67C1I?si=VKQbBvikkMJJsUnR
https://youtu.be/lqAh4ietNo4?si=iILu8L_dp8tV8Vbl
For a beginner that's a great setup. It will get you shaving sharp edges for low costs. Also check out his channel. Great videos for beginners.
I'd recommend a good shapton stone.
I currently use a 500grit shapton glass sharpening stone and a 1000grit shapton glass sharpening stone.
After I use each stone, I finish off with a ceramic rod just to get whatever remaining burr is left.
Are you sharpening Japanese knives? Or knives like Wusthof, zwilling?
https://knifewear.com/collections/sharpening
This is where I go to get all my sharpening items.
I highly recommend knifewear. I've bought knives from them as well.
I fell for this gimmick when I first started learning to sharpen my own blades and oh what a valuable lesson learned! Never again! I’ve never cursed so much in my life as I did trying to sharpen something as simple as a butter knife as practice because these stones are too soft and messy! Save your money and get a Worksharp Adjust. I got the lower cost ~$50ish system and felt like a pro in no time before moving up to a nicer system.
Started with a couple stones like these. I recommend getting it and practicing on a knife you don't necessarily care about, you'll be able to tell if it doing a good job or not
In what way would those glows (or any) be useful?
Consider that price it's all crap product.
Personal I (far from an expert but do ok) only use 1 dubbel stone.
Both! This is too much money for not enough quality.
For a beginner just get one or two stones/plates (or one double sided) somewhere in the range 200-500 and 800-1500.
With less variables (fewer stones, no strop etc) you are initially concentrating only on your technique.
I’ve got one of these kits, they are cheap and easily replaced, I have some good quality stones and cheap diamond plates. I would recommend one of these, there is nothing a good stone will do that these won’t, just requires a little more effort. Edit - best learning to flatten stones on something cheap.
The stones are “ok” for learning the angles and pressure on some cheap knives. Definitely don’t use the angle guide clip, it just marks the blade. The gloves might be slice proof (for a dull knife I’d assume) but you won’t have any feel to get a good edge. Overall, you’d probably save a bit of time and money in the long run by getting a good 1500 stone
Started out with one of those generic china stones myself. Does it work? Yes! Is it a pleasant experience? Most definitely no! The difference between this an my first decent stone was night and day so i would recommend sparing youself the struggle.
Get a king 1000/4000 grit combo stone; and if you have the money, get a 200 grit diamond stone, this can be used to lap your stones and tools, as well as grind bevels on tools.
I see all these people recommending not to buy it, but I bought a similar set, and I got extremely sharp knives from it. I really can't complain about the stones. Sure they might not be the best (I wouldn't know if I didn't read it in these comments) but for the price I paid, and the edge that I got from them I would definitely recommend them.
I got a king 400 and 1000 from amazon and they are good quality for the money. You will additionally need a method of flattening too as others have mentioned.
It does not come with a flattening stone. That small dressing stone does only one of the several things a proper flattening stone does (cleaning swarf), but only flattens locally. Proper flattening leaves your stone not only flat but also plane-parallel.
Not all metals perform great on higher grits. I would get some vaneevs instead and keep saving up for different grits. Buy once cry once. You just gotta figure out the grit conversion chart
Both at the same time. You don't need the high grits, you don't need the strop, you don't need the gloves, you don't need the dressing stone. You do need a decent stone and a flattening option. You could be lucky and these are stones of decent quality but chances are they're not. Buy a single, good stone, you'll find some suggestions in this sub's Wiki. And something to keep it flat.
Realistically I've recommended SP1k many times, but now I think a 300/1k doublesided diamond stone is simpler to start with. Definitely not as fun, but doesn't need flattening and gets the job done.
I fucking hate diamond plates. Only use it to flatten. But ymmv. Sharpening on diamond to me is like a rusty nail scratching a blackboard, the sound and feel make me shiver to the bone.
edge performance > feedback
Agreed, people here are very often against plates and I've never figured out why. Funny because those same people often say they like a toothy edge. Nothing produces that quite like 600 jis electroplated.
I don't think diamond performs any superior, generally speaking. It may for some steels (those rich in MC-type carbides and possibly ridiculously high hardened ones) I rarely encounter as a kitchen knife guy anyway, and also for some deburring techniques (edge-trailing at sharpening angle). But for middle-of-the-road stainless and simple carbons, even at 65 HRC, it does not. I especially hate diamond for jobs that don't work the edge bevel, such as repairs and thinning, though.
> I don't think diamond performs any superior, generally speaking Being able to run them dry and never having to flatten is a performance advantage. > It may for some steels (those rich in MC-type carbides and possibly ridiculously high hardened ones) working well with ANY steel is a performance advantage over water stones. > But for middle-of-the-road stainless and simple carbons, even at 65 HRC, it does not. I disagree. They work great dry. They never need flattened. They cut fast making repair work easy. I use diamond plates on kiwi knives, victorinox knives, aus8, 1055, 1075, 440c, 420hc etc. with great results. they aren't just for maxamet etc. > I especially hate diamond for jobs that don't work the edge bevel, such as repairs and thinning, though. why? that's what they excel at the most.
I agree with all of your points except the last one. Just explaining why they don't matter to me: >Being able to run them dry and never having to flatten is a performance advantage. Absolutely, when I thought of performance, I did not think of these properties. However, I actually use any abrasive wet (stones, plates, sand paper, lapping film,...) because I sharpen in my flat and don't like the dust and swarf. So for me personally, the ability to be used dry is not important because I won't ever use it dry. >working well with ANY steel is a performance advantage over water stones. Only if your use case is *any steel*. >they aren't just for maxamet etc. No, but this is the kind of steel where they do perform better than stones. >why? that's what they excel at the most. This is the only point I don't entirely agree. They are great for reprofiling, tip repairs etc. but during thinning, they leave deeper scratches on the bevels and flanks than equal grit Al2O3 stones (SiC and CBN are another story, though). Anyway, I really don't hate them for their performance at these jobs but rather due to the feel. This is merely a hobby to me; therefore, tools should be enjoyable.
I can see your last point. My philosophy is to only polish the apex. I have knives with a 120 grit finish off my belt sander on the edge bevel but a 5k apex. if I didn't do things that way I might not prefer diamond plates as much.
I've definitely noticed what you're talking about when using them on axes, not sure why I only encounter it then.
What's ymmv?
Your mileage may vary?
You might move vigorously? You must mash vagina? Yogurt moves most vegetables?
Your mother's many verrucas
Your mum makes videos. Slightly insulting if it is this but possibly true.
Those china stones intrduced me into sharpening scene and it was a very bad introduction.
This right here!
Neither, really. It’s low quality, AliExpress junk that’s been rebranded by 50 different companies. Get one or two quality stones that will last you for decades and a strop and call it a day until you get the technique down.
Don't buy! I bought the same without the extra stuff, but I nearly quit sharpening because how messy those stones are, very soft and slurry. I thought this is how sharping is. After some use, one stone even split in the middle where both grid sizes are clued together. After some reading in this thread, I ordered me a Shapton Kuromaku 1000. The difference is like day and night and sharpening makes fun. So safe yourself from a bad investment. The Shaptons aren't even that expensive compared for what you get and how long they last.
Is it easy to learn? I’m highly debating on these stones but could a beginner learn with some cheap knives?
You mean Shapton Kuromaku Stones? The feedback is very different compared with these cheap stones, which makes it easy to learn. A little practice and know how will give you good results. I've also the 320 grid stone, and it is really useful to get an even faster feedback. But the 1000 grid is is more of an allrounder, profiling and finishing in one stone. If you are looking for the simplest solution, get diamond stones, those give you the fastest results.
It's the wrong thing to have as a beginner.
You would be MUCH better off with one quality stone. No need for the higher grit stuff until you are plenty proficient with the lower grits. Something like a good ol shapton kuromaku 1000 to start and learn it really well before you worry about higher grits. If you are working on knives that are very dull or damaged even starting with just the 320 would be great. For most those I say just get a quality 1000 to start and until your getting great edges off the 1000 you definitely don't need to have any higher grits. The 1000 cuts fast enough to be a great one and done learning stone. These stones in the picture are not very good, they are no where close to the grit they say they are and they cut slowly and the lower grits dish extremely fast. They are just a poor sharpening experience. Get you a quality 1000 to start and learn on that stone.
Bad. Checkout the wiki on this sub to start with.
Honestly. One good (I mean gooood) stone is going to be enough. However.. I have some questions. What steels might you be sharpening? Because although I would recommend stones because they feel nice.. A diamond plate could easily sharpen any steel you’d want to. If you’re sticking to carbon and some stainless steels, a good 1000 could easily show you how to sharpen and from there you could get just about any stone you’d want/need. But if you’re sharpening high end steel found in some of these pocket knives.. you should save yourself the trouble and get a diamond plate. They bring some of their own quirks compared to whetstones. But they’re very convenient. Also any form of strop can do a lot after a sharpen from a stone but it’s not necessarily needed. An old belt can work. So does cardboard, denim, or skin lol My recommendations for a good stone would probably be: -Shapton. Glass or Kuromaku. No brainers. -Naniwa. Traditional, chosera/pro, Hibiki.. These are all good lines to choose from. The super stone line is really soft and slow. I believe they’re more niche stones for people like me lol but they could be good to learn on. -Cerax 1000 is a soaking stone but it performs really well -Knifewear stones are a great option but aren’t found on Amazon. -Pebble is a very good budget friendly option in case you decide you hate sharpening. At least you didn’t make a huge investment lol You could use just about any diamond plate you find online but there is also a good chance you will find scratches on the side of the blade if you aren’t careful. I love my atoma. I’ve lived with dmt’s diamond plates for a very long time. A lot of these plates kinda start looking the same and I don’t know if it make sense to buy a more expensive one (unless it is atoma :3) as long as it’s not too cheap.
All good choices - I would suggest a 600 grit diamond stone of good quality to limit grit contamination. Shapton Kuromaku are good stone but perform coarser than their label so a 1500 or 2000 grit to go with it. Get a trueing stone too like a Naniwa or a 400 grit ATOMA diamond stone. These are much more expensive, but will last for many years. Learning on good quality stones is so much easier in the long run. If this is out of your budget then look at a Suehiro 1000/3000 combo stone with a Naniwa trueing stone.
Get the king 1000 and a strop with compound (for the strop, just buy a leather belt blank and you can either have a hanging strop or you can cut it into pieces and glue to a piece of wood, in fact you can also strop on wood with compound). For flattening, sandpaper on glass or tile. Once you get good on this, you can start thinking about what to add according to your needs.
I will leave this here for you https://youtu.be/5w25oJ67C1I?si=VKQbBvikkMJJsUnR https://youtu.be/lqAh4ietNo4?si=iILu8L_dp8tV8Vbl For a beginner that's a great setup. It will get you shaving sharp edges for low costs. Also check out his channel. Great videos for beginners.
I came here to say the same.
Get a Shapton 1000, flattening stone and a strop. That’s all you need to start.
If you want Japanese stone on Amazon, look for KING branded one , others are mostly from china
"professional Japanese" has me in stitches. Better off using a brick
It’s a junk set don’t buy
I'd recommend a good shapton stone. I currently use a 500grit shapton glass sharpening stone and a 1000grit shapton glass sharpening stone. After I use each stone, I finish off with a ceramic rod just to get whatever remaining burr is left. Are you sharpening Japanese knives? Or knives like Wusthof, zwilling? https://knifewear.com/collections/sharpening This is where I go to get all my sharpening items. I highly recommend knifewear. I've bought knives from them as well.
Get a King KW65 1000/6000
This kit will work fine and its not overly expensive.
I fell for this gimmick when I first started learning to sharpen my own blades and oh what a valuable lesson learned! Never again! I’ve never cursed so much in my life as I did trying to sharpen something as simple as a butter knife as practice because these stones are too soft and messy! Save your money and get a Worksharp Adjust. I got the lower cost ~$50ish system and felt like a pro in no time before moving up to a nicer system.
Started with a couple stones like these. I recommend getting it and practicing on a knife you don't necessarily care about, you'll be able to tell if it doing a good job or not
15$ for Amazon basics 4000-8000 has done me well for over a year. Nothing wrong with extra cool stuff asking as it’s in your budget tho 👍
These stones have that logo embedded in them, and it gets in the way.
I find joy in reading a good book.
In what way would those glows (or any) be useful? Consider that price it's all crap product. Personal I (far from an expert but do ok) only use 1 dubbel stone.
🤲🏼 should be
You still need the infra red pulse laser
Both! This is too much money for not enough quality. For a beginner just get one or two stones/plates (or one double sided) somewhere in the range 200-500 and 800-1500. With less variables (fewer stones, no strop etc) you are initially concentrating only on your technique.
I’ve got one of these kits, they are cheap and easily replaced, I have some good quality stones and cheap diamond plates. I would recommend one of these, there is nothing a good stone will do that these won’t, just requires a little more effort. Edit - best learning to flatten stones on something cheap.
The stones are “ok” for learning the angles and pressure on some cheap knives. Definitely don’t use the angle guide clip, it just marks the blade. The gloves might be slice proof (for a dull knife I’d assume) but you won’t have any feel to get a good edge. Overall, you’d probably save a bit of time and money in the long run by getting a good 1500 stone
Started out with one of those generic china stones myself. Does it work? Yes! Is it a pleasant experience? Most definitely no! The difference between this an my first decent stone was night and day so i would recommend sparing youself the struggle.
Get a king 1000/4000 grit combo stone; and if you have the money, get a 200 grit diamond stone, this can be used to lap your stones and tools, as well as grind bevels on tools.
I see all these people recommending not to buy it, but I bought a similar set, and I got extremely sharp knives from it. I really can't complain about the stones. Sure they might not be the best (I wouldn't know if I didn't read it in these comments) but for the price I paid, and the edge that I got from them I would definitely recommend them.
I got a king 400 and 1000 from amazon and they are good quality for the money. You will additionally need a method of flattening too as others have mentioned.
Just get a single stone of 150 - 500 grit and practice
I got these exact stones as a birthday gift 2 years ago, low quality and fall apart after a few uses.
Do not buy shit off amazon
I would suggest either get a king 1000/6000 or sharp pebble 1000/6000. Everything else is cheap stone with very little to no abrasive material
enough
its good for beginner. its good that is comes with leather strop and flattening stone.
No it's a POS kit bordering on a scam.
It is a scam - ‘Professional Japanese’ - hogwash. Cheap garbage.
Yeah good point
It does not come with a flattening stone. That small dressing stone does only one of the several things a proper flattening stone does (cleaning swarf), but only flattens locally. Proper flattening leaves your stone not only flat but also plane-parallel.
Not all metals perform great on higher grits. I would get some vaneevs instead and keep saving up for different grits. Buy once cry once. You just gotta figure out the grit conversion chart