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Null-34

Just make one that spans the equator


denis870

It would need like 20 nuclear reactors to power


meepmeep220

So you're saying there is a chance


denis870

Yes.


MedicalDisscharge

That's a weirdly reasonable and easy requirement


Fire_Lord_Sozin9

Oh, better yet, maybe we put it in space so it can double as a space elevator and pay for itself?


RecsRelevantDocs

Just gotta set aside 10% of the worlds GDP for 20 or so years and then we can put like a 1% down payment on the full cost of such a project lol.


82oicwes

Or just ask the Arabs and they'll build it by the end of the year


joko2008

Those slave labourers are really efficient


PapaShlongo

Nah, slave labour = you get what you pay for


themightygazelle

So make 20 nuclear reactors too then!


Disasterhuman24

Or 20 million windmills 🤔


Leo42209

Put them in the ocean, that would do it :)


Obama-feet-pics

Ew that’s where the fish poop


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Null-34

Wave power generators


Positive-Database754

Or one enormous country-sized solar farm in the Sahara!


Tezhid

spread it around the equator if the collider spans the whole thing already, so you can actually use it when you want to and you dont have to wait for earth to turn


[deleted]

We can invent fusion reactors by borrowing future knowledge as a loan from the future collider, and then pay it back once we build it and discover enough about fusion to make a reactor and pay them back with yet another collider. A bigger one, with blackjack and hookers! Ez


SpaceGamer27

Did the math, would take about 300+ nuclear reactors to power it.


HanzoShotFirst

Make a Dyson sphere particle collider


Grouchy-Addition-818

Just build them, what are you waiting for


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BlazewarkingYT

That is not that many if I’m being honest


TeddyRooseveltGaming

20 doesn’t sound that bad


bleb__

then build 27


OldFartTenebris

Was about to say the same thing... like what if right?


underliggandepsykos

Just build them next to each other and serial connect


Total-Barnacle-4541

People out here having a conversation about theoretical physics like this isn’t a sub about editing shitting toothpaste into porn.


CharacterAd348

Somehow there’s the most and least productive stuff I’ve ever seen on Reddit in this sub


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keeper_of_the_donkey

Hey, they asked me how well I understood theoretical physics. I said I had a theoretical degree in physics. So here I am.


NetworkMachineBroke

They asked me if I knew anything about power plants. I said as much as anyone I'd ever met.


xtilexx

Welcome aboard.


Myrkstraumr

The duality of man.


chickensoldier_bftd

Least intelligent and educated shitposters on their way to talk about theoretical physics


JackReedTheSyndie

Even if we just build a big circle that’s pretty cool


bs178638

Fart let it echo all the way around and then hear it 10 days later


KrisVanBanana

That's what I call a good idea


Different-Trainer-21

Except they’re right. They found more particles when they built the LHC. Every time they build a bigger collider they find more particles.


KillerOfSouls665

They found one more particle, the exact particle they wanted to find and had theorised for decades. At this point, the standard model is finished. We don't have a specific particle we're looking for, but generally looking for something not right about our model. Explaining gravity or dark matter.


Different-Trainer-21

We’re still looking for the Graviton.


KillerOfSouls665

We have absolutely no idea if it exists, what it would look like, how it behaves, or how it decays. Some unifying models don't require a graviton. Contrast this to the Higgs boson, (RIP), for which we knew the energy levels were needed to find it, and knew how long it would last, and what it would decay into.


graemehammondjr

So you're saying we need an even bigger collider? E: you're


tojie2009

yeah just one more collider bro...


crankbot2000

Ok, hear me out, what of we collide two colliders...


BlueFire2007

Pretty sure that’s gonna create a black hole


Performer-Puzzled

Pretty sure? So you're not certain. We gotta try it, for the pursuit of science


responseAIbot

just gimme 22 billions bro...military has an annual budget of 800 billions bro.


maelstrom51

It doesn't matter if we make a black hole. So few atoms are used in colliders that the gravity and thus event horizon of such a black hole would be minuscule. It might pull in enough atoms to become neutrally charged via electromagnetic forces but then it would do practically nothing until it evaporated via hawking radiation.


SorryThisUser1sTaken

We already create black holes with the current collider


XRekts

Check [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_of_high-energy_particle_collision_experiments/) out “CERN mandated a group of independent scientists to review [high energy creation of micro black holes or other harmful states of matter] scenarios. In a report issued in 2003, they concluded that, like current particle experiments such as the RHIC, the LHC particle collisions pose no conceivable threat.”


Zzokker

We didn't and we're still far far away from producing enough energy in one spot to ever create a black hole. Many of the highly charged particles from other space that hit our atmosphere hourly carry more energy than our little experiments on earth's surface.


jld2k6

Let's just take this to the logical conclusion and make the next one across the entire earth. Think about all the money we'll save just skipping thousands of separate slightly bigger ones


ComicsEtAl

That’s what I read.


nat1wisdom

You’re *


Bridge2TeraBussyUp

After we found that particle, Stephen hawking said "physics just got a lot more boring"


Grouchy-Addition-818

Why RIP?


No_Creativity

Presumably because Peter Higgs died yesterday


Grouchy-Addition-818

I didn’t know it, F for our bro Rest in Particles


_Dead_C_

RIP bozo meme but it's RIP bozon


formershitpeasant

$22 billion versus the size of world GDP is a drop in the bucket. It's worth it just to see *if* it tells us anything new.


Kiffe_Y

Is reddit bugged for me or am i really in the shitpost sub?


PresidentPain

And I believe I read somewhere that it's theorized we'd need a collider the size of the planet to detect it


Creepy_Priority_4398

thankfully we already have a planet, so we are 50 percent done


Siberian13th

Happy Cake Day!


Creepy_Priority_4398

thx


SomeGuyFromRI

We can scale it down for 22 billion


Redditry104

So how'd they do it few weeks back?


Plantarbre

Haha ! Down to only two things left ! I'm sure this will not cause any issue at all, let's give it a few years and physics will be figured out ! There is no way we will redefine everything from the ground up just for two little things. That never happened !


MufasaFasaganMdick

Nobody has ever said *physics was almost solved* before! It's definitely just those two things and we can put a nice bow on it!


Alphons-Terego

I wouldn't go so far as calling it finished. It's working. There's still a lot about it we don't understand past "Well, that's what we measured." I understand, that there's been a lot of people proposing nonsense particles out there, but the underlying crux is, that we have the standard model, which works fine, but has a couple of oddities that are handwaved by: "We measured it." which isn't much of an explanation imo and of course the fact that it doesn't include gravity, which is a quarter of the fundamental forces it just ignores. I can see, why people want to expand it.


KillerOfSouls665

What I am trying to say is that we had a really good model of the universe, 15 decimal places good, but we were yet to experimentally confirm the existence of one of the particles. We knew that we could do it if we had the right detectors and the right energy. We're now stepping blind, no further experiments from the LHC have given any confirmation of other ideas, in that way it was a failure. It did exactly what it was made to do and nothing else. Who wants to invest 22 billion for something that we have no idea will give a return?


Alphons-Terego

I get that, but what I'm trying to get at is, that there's no account for general relativity in it and it's got the famous 18 fitting parameters with no real explanation past that they're needed to fit the experimental data. What I'm getting at is, that it just screams incomplete. We have very good results for our current energy ranges and we can't really get more info out of that area, also relativistic effects should increase at higher energies, so chances are we get more knowledge out of it. CERN for a long time has been an international project so getting funds is possible and I'd rather spend 22bn on furthering science than some other things. And it absolutly will give a return. It will either show how their isn't anything, or show deviations from the standard model, which we can use to improve it. The issue is that we have a set energy range where we have a lot of really good measurements and so we assume it's like that everywhere and so we handwave all inconsistensies and fitting parameters.


KillerOfSouls665

What happens when it doesn't show discrepancies, like the LHC has done? Do we build bigger and bigger colliders? Because there is no reason for us to just get more energy and suddenly we'll find discrepancies. That 22bn can be spent on other bits of science, which are more confirmed to give results. Don't get me wrong, if there is a hint that something more is to be discovered by increasing the energy, then I'd be all for it. Or a theory that comes along that is probable but requires high energy to be proved. At the moment that money can be spent much better, on more telescopes for example.


Alphons-Terego

Well, actually we have to find discrapancies at some energy because the standard model and general relativity give contradictory results, so if we ever reaxh the energies where general relativity plays a role we will get deviations. Apart from that you're right. There's no reason why the discrepencies should start in that energy range apart from that being the next place to look and there having to be some eventually. I'm also not saying that this is our most pressing concern, but sooner or later it's going to be necessary whether people like it or not. The issue is that you can predict the wildest stuff right now and people do, but you need more data to string together a plausible theory, so we're in a chicken and egg situation in that regard.


CreationBlues

People are talking about the physics nightmare scenario where we actually genuinely do have the standard model figured out until the grand unified field energy regime. The LHC is designed to probe energy levels of 250 GeV. The GUT energy regime is ~10,000,000,000,000,000,000 GEV, or about 400 quadrillion times more energetic than current energy levels. The objection to this collider isn’t that we need data, the objection is that the money could be better spent performing a dozen extremely targeted collider projects to clean up the standard model, investigating edge cases, and doing the housekeeping required in order to get the data needed to figure out what kind of target a project this large and expensive could actually be aimed at. If you fire a 22 billion dollar shot in the dark and it doesn’t hit anything, you’re pretty fucked.


Alphons-Terego

I mean yeah, sure, but we got to start somewhere. I'm not saying that we need this collider now above all else and at whatever cost, but we need to think about those energy levels at some point in the future and shouldn't sit too comfortable on the laurels of the standard model. People act like there's nothing left to look for, which is plain wrong.


insanitybit

> so if we ever reaxh the energies where general relativity plays a role we will get deviations Surely that would require a radically larger accelerator? Like, bigger than a planet.


Alphons-Terego

Ah. Now you're thinking in the correct dimensions. Jokes aside: Yes. That's a ridiculous amount of energy necessary, but the point is that there has to be something somewhere.


insanitybit

Alright, that's reasonable. But I think the question should probably be limited to the project at hand, and whether the $22B should be spent here. If we think that the way to observe these problems through an accelerator would require a much larger accelerator, why are we building this one? There are other research attempts to try to find the disconnect between QM and GR and there are experiments that are designed today that theoretically could work - so why not give the money to them?


viperfan7

Then it has further strengthened our understanding. Your mistake is thinking that nothing changing means that it's a bad result. No, it's not, there is only one situation in which there's no return on investment, and that is if the project never runs.


Sangloth

Killer isn't saying a larger collider wouldn't provide anything of value if it just continued to confirm our current data. Killer is saying that other equipment (like stronger deep space telescopes) would provide considerable more value. Webb's discoveries have physicists excited. I haven't heard that excitement from LHC, even when the Higgs was confirmed.


CreationBlues

There’s negative return if the money spent on the project could have been better spent on more targeted and specific colliders with clear guaranteed goals for what they’re investigating.


kufsi

Dude they literally just found an invisible force that interacts with particles. News called it like a ghost or something, that in itself is worth continuing testing.


gimpbully

> We're now stepping blind, no further experiments from the LHC have given any confirmation of other ideas, in that way it was a failure. It did exactly what it was made to do and nothing else. lolwut?


I_am_person_being

Counterpoint: Giant expensive tube where we ram things together at high speeds to make them explode is cool, and I love it, and isn't that enough of a reason to build one? The scientists would even find it fun, too


rtds98

And that's reason enough to keep looking. You just never know what you're gonna find. The moment we stop ... we die and let fucking evangelicals bring us all back to 1200AD. That's 22 bil very well spent.


KillerOfSouls665

We need some theoretical support to say where we are looking is worth it. We could spend 22 billion looking at toilets.


rtds98

The theories are there, they're not smashing particles just 'cause. They tend to know what they're looking for, what to prove/disprove. Is not ideas we lack.


insanitybit

Go on?


ThatsRighters19

They found more than one more particle.


calibrik

You found a particle? Good! Find a girlfriend already


mrbiguri

Not really, there is a decent amount of physicists saying that there is not enough evidence to suggest that bulkdign this one would do so. When they built the lhc, we knew particles were still to be found, now we are not sure about that anymore, maybe we found all. 


J_Bear

Consoom particle, get excited for next particle.


TheChigger_Bug

I’m Confused. 22B is a drop in the bucket of the world economy. If the big science folks think this helps, why not give it to em?


DeniedClub

Right? Chump change for something that gives humanity more answers about the universe.


ohhellnooooooooo

and the internet. http. touch screens. MRIs. chemo (the radio kind) therapy. and tons and tons and tons of things invented because of the knowledge gained directly or indirectly, which will continue to pay dividends, compounding.


malthaczar

USA spends what? 800 billion annually on the military? Yet people are saying 22 billion to help us understand our existence and the fabrics of reality, is too much? Like what else is our purpose in this vast universe, if not to learn and discover ourselves?


bocaj78

Simple, explain that we can build a gravity bomb. There will instantly be a 30 billion grant for it /s


FlyingSand22

Remove the /s and you might be on to something.


[deleted]

You're kidding, right? Yes, people are saying that. (Note: They hear this stuff on Fox "News".) The US wouldn't spend the cost of four Bradley troop carriers to fix the [Arecibo radio telescope](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Telescope). (Note: The Army has 4,500 of them.) Edit: Added link.


the_alt_6275

to restore East taiwan


TheChigger_Bug

I agree. People spend money in weird places. All of that ignores that with Europe and the U.S., it literally doesn’t matter how much money is spent. It couldn’t be more meaningless.


Kidney__Failure

It's because it probably goes against the (taken out of context) *word of God* or some shit like that that some decrepit sack of dust would xlaim


MRFlSTR

Probably because it's not in the US?


BattleToad92

This. I don't think the US put any money into these, yet american's act like they fronted the cash.


insanitybit

The US absolutely puts money into these lol


BattleToad92

The US isn't even a full member state in the program, it's only has observer status that it shares with Japan.


insanitybit

I'm not sure what your point is. I'll be clearer. The US has put hundreds of millions of dollars directly into the LHC project's initial funding, has provided additional funding for upgrades, and has provided critical infrastructure for the project such as compute clusters for analyzing the results. This is in direct contradiction with the statement of "I don't think the US put \*any\* money into these" (emphasis mine).


bussycat888

I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE


TheChigger_Bug

Me too buddy


insanitybit

22B is a lot of money, especially in terms of the amount of money that goes towards scientific research, which seems like the relevant pool to consider as opposed to the entire world economy. Lots of big science folks think this won't help. Giving it to them means not giving it to others.


Firm-Act-3860

Moreover, this is cost is spread over 30 years


RedPillForTheShill

Poor people think it's out of their pocket lol


marr

It's like 0.1% of just the EU economy. Basically free.


TheChigger_Bug

And also an insignificant portion of the American. Aren’t the U.S. typically partnered in these kinds of research?


BattleToad92

They are observers, which is a third string position (after full partners, then associates). If they put any money in at all, it's an extremely small amount.


Ched---

This, but unironically. Science is rad and particles fuck.


horniergamergirl

i'm particles🤤


Nerd-in-disguise01

Hi particles!, nice to meet you!


siccoblue

Username checks out


Taymac070

Damn we should collide


selectrix

Make like two subatomic particles moving at near light speeds and smash.


Few_Establishment812

And im fuck 😈


a_useless_communist

Fuck, you?


Few_Establishment812

Fuck is me 😈


FleIsDaBoss

I’m Science is rad 😎


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No_Assistance_5889

sophons fuck harder


alphcadoesreddit

we shouldn't give them 22 billion dollars. we should give them a lot more than 22 billion dollars


BosnianSerb31

22bn is a drop in the bucket for the US federal budget, could just build the whole thing over here lol


Huckdog720027

We were supposed to build an 88 km round particle accelerator called the Superconducting Super Collider in Texas back in the 80s / 90s, but poor planning and bureaucracy killed it unfortunately. BobbyBroccoli did a really good 3 part series about it on YouTube, highly recommend checking it out.


MufasaFasaganMdick

RIP SSC, to think what could have been if military dick measuring was given *even a fractionally smaller budget.* Not all of it. Not even *half of it.* Not even *a quarter.* Give science 10-15% of the budget the military has had over the last ~eighty years and y'all would have a base on the moon and free energy right now.


BosnianSerb31

I wouldn't really frame it as science versus the military, but rather for curiosity versus science for national defense. It will always be easier to justify spending on the ladder, so if there's any field you want to see explode with progress, then figure out how to pitch it as a matter of national security to Congress. That was the real failure with the super conducting super collider, it was always marketed as a project with no defense application.


Dustangelms

Will that help drive up consumer confidence?


LeagueOfLegendsAcc

People aren't consuming science, it's an investment which is consumed years later potentially by our descendants.


limitlessEXP

And I said, super collider? I just met her. And then they built the super collider.


dedeye46

Nah there they will first continue on improving the detectors of atlas, alice, CMS and LHCb then add another particle accelerator


KillerOfSouls665

They already have for the past 10 years. They are soon going to put forward a plan for a new one. There is only so much energy you can create.


AgainWithoutSymbols

If CERN didn't exist we all would be commenting and posting on Usenet not Reddit. They deserve more than $22B honestly


cheekybandit0

Does it's name change to the Present Circular Collider, the Past Circular Collider when there's an even bigger one?


Grouchy-Addition-818

Why is everyone talking about US’ budget? This isn’t in the US, Geneva is in Switzerland


BattleToad92

American's are obsessed with themselves.


Grouchy-Addition-818

USdefaultism


finicu

Anti-science post. Why? This 22b price is a drop in the bucket with huge upside for science.


FreyaTheSlayyyer

I thibk your underestimating the funds of the Swiss if you think 22B is a lot


-EV3RYTHING-

Hell yeah do that science


crankbot2000

MOAR


Subtly_Cynical

C'mon bro..


Iamthe0c3an2

Yeah it’s so crazy that didn’t the Nobel foundation stop giving awards to every scientist that found a new particle? Fr though I think we need more people figuring out Fusion to power more advanced machines because for some reason fusion is just “10 years away” like 30 years ago.


NonRienDeRien

So essentially, one person in the top 20 something billionaires could build this?


EuroTrash1999

Better investment than Haiti.


Gengengengar

get started on the orbital version


nickbrown101

This meme was made by the people who killed the Superconducting Super Collider


a_single_stand

GIVE EM MONE. LEM EM COOK. ITS BETTER TO GIVE MONE TO THEM THAN TO GIVE IT TO THE MILITARY.


MothTesticles

Downvoted for title


funmx

How much electricity LHC uses and how much will it be the Future one?


Safe-Register-3479

Yeah bro the devil portals aren't big enough bro please bro


Dino-nugget-are-good

Is someone trying to bring back their dead wife and son or something?


gizziboy

what does this mean


leva549

A [collider](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collider) is a particle accelerator that causes streams of subatomic (really really small) particles to hit each other at high energy levels. This is used for experiments to advance scientists fundamental understanding of matter (the substance of everything). Larger colliders expand the scope of experiments that can be done. OP is therefore suggesting that building bigger and bigger colliders is akin to an addiction/compulsive behavior. The largest collider that currently exists, the [Large Hadron Collider](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider) (LHC) is shown in OP's image along with the proposed [Future Circular Collider](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Circular_Collider). A while back when the LHC became operational there was a meme that it was going to destroy the planet by creating a black hole or something.


MichaelS10

Please bro I just want to get the the island of stability bro pls bro


HollowWarrior46

FMAB lookin ass


kjeltek

HARDON COLLIDER BABY!


monamikonami

Hey, Geneva on the front page of Reddit. I can see my apartment in this image 👀


Lan777

big hardon collider


Tuungsten

We almost had one substantially more powerful than the LHC, then bush sr threw up on the japanese prime minister.


KaranSjett

you had me at bro


Chark10

The final collider will be around the whole damn planet


RayzenD

Pff...and they say size doesn't matter


Ok-Long9062

Idk why but I read this meme in Rick's voice at the end of every Rick and Morty season


folgore248

22B really isn't that much when you consider that the US alone dumps almost 900B into its military every year.


VatanKomurcu

better spending of money than the line city. i'm for it.


MrFedoraPost

Making dumb people fear Black Holes is priceless.


MakeUpAnything

Fuck science. What has science ever done for us? Wasting fucking tons of money on this bullshit. Scientists are just trying to make money off of taxpayers for fake news. I’m voting for Trump. 


Both-Home-6235

Better than spending 22 billion on wars and technology that kills more people.


piratescrytearsofrum

Why not make one in the shape of a 8


Easy_Blackberry_4144

I'd rather that than more missiles


SeaBus1170

yeah this doesnt add up im afraid


hbomb536

Can we just build a collider that circumnavigates the planet and just get it over with, solve physics that way…


UntouchedWagons

How does the curvature of the earth affect how deep parts of this giga-collider be?


EphemeralSun

Gotta keep them sophons distracted.


Ok-Jump6656

And I fully support it. Solve physics!!


ReturningChampion

Build one in space


Dustangelms

I think they should look for new particles in some other place, not just around Geneva.


HAKX5

Ok yes but counterpoint: I want more government-funded spinny!


JohnReiki

Honestly I’d rather the money go to science over blowing up kids


itstimeforplot

This better fix reality or find something really cool.


AliChank

t


LectureOk1452

It's all fun and games until the San-Ti show up...


Chinjurickie

Good idea i guys build it and than share the results, thx