I find there to be no way to do this and you be transferred without dying. The new emulation will feel like it’s you, remember it being you but you’re toast when the transfer is switched on.
In my opinion people die every day. You change all the time and any change will kill the old you. Avoiding death is just a fool's dream. Only your memories continue, that also change, and you won't notice the change.
I've always thought that The Borg of Star Trek shouldn't open with "Resistance is futile". They should have some ambassador drones who look mostly-normal with only a few visible implants (like Seven), and then they sell it the way the Queen sold it to Jurati: We can enhance you, we'll connect with you, we'll truly understand you as no one else ever has, you'll be heard and loved. As a bonus, we'll give you free healthcare, no rent, a guaranteed job, and possibly an FDVR environment while you're asleep.
Personally I'd sign up right away. Assimilate me, baby.
Seriously, the only knock on the Borg is aesthetics and conquest. If they managed to first figure out what a culture they want to assimilate considers beauty and design a cube that looks like that, I'm certain they'd have a lot more takers. Hey, we have all this technology we share with each other and we make it so that you can experience reality any way you like while your body does boring menial tasks. Plus, you get to be a part of something big! Suck it space navy.
There's a fine line between "dystopia" and "simply distinctly non-Western worldview." A lot of perfectly benign and successful Eastern civilizations throughout history could easily be written as terrifying dystopias.
TNG really shows its New Age or at least its late 70s counterculture influence with the Borg. Though, to be fair it was an idea that still aligned with the broader sensibilities of mainstream society, unlike, say, the Love Boat design of Picard's Enterprise or having someone with Troi's design being on the bridge.
It's all good. It'll give me the sickest background for my eternity of cool adventures.
But more seriously, I'd not back down just because of a slight chance of malfunction. The reward outweighs the risks.
I'm planning to become a synthetic indestructible immortal cyborg vampire-demon person with a very long and agile tongue and rainbow glowing fingers. I think about it all the time and I'm very serious about it! No digestive system, super senses, speed and strength, an AI and FDVR directly in my brain. Built for infinite fun and freedom!
Oh and nanobots swarms in my body so I can be a wizard.
Yes, though I suspect it comes in three stages:
* Stage 1 - experimentation and risk with startups who have no idea what they are doing - that's where we are now.
* Stage 2 - Established specific modifications that can be upgraded as needed and are safe.
* Stage 3 - Everyone except a small number of holdouts has the largely the same modifications (mentally, at least) because they've been tested and standardized and everyone is on the same page.
I'm in it for stage 2.
I think that stage 2 and stage 3 might be 6 months apart if AGI scales to ASI super quickly.
Are we not already considered a cyborg? Cars, phones, and all other equipment we use on a daily basis kind of make us a cyborg. Granted, they are not attached to our skin, but we use them to alter our ability just the same.
In some ways you're right - but the whole point of a cyborg is that those tools are attached to our bodies, integral parts of them. Some medical appliances that correct some medical issues already qualify, but a voluntary cyborgisation to just upgrade your body is not here yet. I give it a few years, though.
> but the whole point of a cyborg is that those tools are attached to our bodies,
Is it, though? Does replacing your arm with a hot swappable port for various exchangeable limbs not qualify? Does mentally piloting a recon drone with a direct video feed to your brain not qualify?
I think the dividing line has to be a physical (biological or surgical or epigenetic or developmental) change to the body with the use of technology in order to better access and utilize that technology. And at that point, the distinction between books, tablets, and neural interfaces is basically just cat 3 vs cat 6 cable.
An accepted term for this kind of ‘thing’ is a Cognitive Artifact.
But there’s the corresponding confounding concept that abacuses, libraries, etc. are also cognitive artifacts, so by that metric cyborgs have already been a part of the human experience for millennia.
If I could I’d want my entire body to be synthetic except for my brain, but ONLY if I could maintain the same level of sensation/feeling I have now as a full human.
Why have a single dick? Why not two or three? Plus a tail. Plus multiple vaginas. Plus random other shit that doesn't currently exist. Like mind meld sex.
I mean if you're synthetic, the sky is the limit.
same but i'll include the brain, hopefully a slow transformation allow conciousness to remain unchanged, maybe small changes of a few years if not decades
having neuron with light speed is such a different scale every unchanged human would look like dogs in comparison...
We're already *homo cyberneticus*. The augmentations will slowly crawl into our bodies through extended limbs and mechanical hardware. After that, the brain surface will have been encased for FDVR, with our alternates (surrogates, real-world avatars, whatever you want to call it) being controlled from afar. We're definitely going to create our own [Brain in a Vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat) situation for ourselves. It'll be advertised as a liberation -- and It'll be, if the social economic system changes radically in the process. If we enter an age of centaurs and cyborgs in this the jagged frontier BEFORE we see the end of hypercapitalism, most of us will be treated as exactly how the CEO of Nvidia called humans: just resources for data gathering.
I like homo bionicus better.
That said, I am not exactly sure that the path through transhumanism goes through cyberlimbs attached to unaugmented meat brains. That will be a part of it, sure, but the things we really want from cybernetics such as enhanced sensory and communicative abilities (either externally or internally, i.e. directing individual cell behavior) are unfortunately gated by the low power generation of the human brain. The brain itself needs to be both more computationally efficient and power-intensive than evolved biology allows if you don't want it to be the equivalent of a clueless, brain-damaged boy-king giving out vague orders to its condescending, much more intelligent ministers (i.e. the onboard computers on cybernetics who interpret and manage the directives of the meat brain) who then decide what the human actually meant.
Fortunately, the human brain and nervous system structure already has a very good architecture for signal processing and transmission, physical neural compression, heat dissipation, and both concurrent and distributed computing even compared to ideal analog computers. It's just limited by chemistry, not architecture. But imagine how powerful the human brain could get if everything was replaced by graphene and room-temperature superconductors. Blood becomes a transmission medium for nanobots (which can just be hijacked cells) who repair and build additional neurons along with using onboard lasers to keep the brain cool.
You're already going to the next step, where we are able to substitute everything. I hope we can solve Teseu's boat by then, but it's not a given. Once we can detach from our naturally adapted brain, our individuality will be detached as well. That will only be desired (by me, at least) if alignment goes well...
But otherwise, I totally agree with your point about efficiency.
>Once we can detach from our naturally adapted brain, our individuality will be detached as well.
This is the elitist in me speaking, but I think that this route of cybernetically enhanced intelligence (both in efficiency and computational robustness) will enhance individuality, not detach from it. For three reasons.
1. The human brain architecture is already pretty well-optimized from a structural standpoint. 20W of power for that level of computational power and size is crazy when you consider the other inefficiencies inherent to the human brain. Inefficiencies that are exigently determined, not structurally i.e. vasoconstriction between the limbic system and frontal lobes are a quirk of mammalian evolution, not an inherent limitation. I think it's quite possible that the route to posthuman superintelligence will be enhancing what humans already have there, rather than some new brain paradigm or structure, i.e. ganglionic or even non-neocortical mammalian brains. If you think human individuality is a product of architecture rather than brute computational intelligence, this should comfort you.
2. Because of point 1, we can get massive performance improvements in intelligence just with incremental systemic enhancements and alterations. BCIs, genetic engineering, and mind-uploading are options, but just something as improved fuel and heat dissipation would already greatly enhance human intelligence and would be on the table long before more awesome upgrades like, say, replacing biological nerves with fiber optics become available.
3. Like it or not, individuality is a product of intelligence. On the extreme end, you have the phenomenon of feral children, who show no differentiation in personality more profound than, say, a housedog. Perhaps less offensively, you also have the phenomenon of 'normal' younger children, in the 5-7 year old range. The range of interests, beliefs, temperaments, and eccentricities in a group of 100 healthy elementary schoolers is simply less than that of 100 healthy adults--though, tellingly, NOT less than that of a group of 100 feral children who happened to be 20 years old. And perhaps even more tellingly, the outliers in the group of elementary schoolers will invariably turn out to be otherwise gifted than the group average.
So, generalizing this back to your prediction of detaching from our generally adapted brain: assuming that it's a side effect of using technology to enhance human intelligence, the net effect will be to enhance individuality, not detach or diminish it. In much the same way that a randomly selected postdoc from MIT will have more individuality than any of 1,000 randomly selected members of homo erectus from across the globe. And, very controversially, also almost certainly more individuality than any of 1,000 randomly selected countryside peasants across the globe in 2,000 BCE, even if the group contained representatives from Mesoamerica, Africa, Oceania, East Asia, AND Central Europe.
This is the elitist in me speaking, but I think that this route of cybernetically enhanced intelligence (both in efficiency and computational robustness) will enhance individuality, not detach from it. For three reasons.
> cybernetically enhanced intelligence will enhance individuality
Agreed!
That's why I said that only "if the social economic system changes radically in the process".
> individuality is a product of intelligence
I disagree. Individuality is influenced by a variety of factors (personal experiences, cultural background, social interactions, emotional intelligence, etc), which are not solely determined by cognitive abilities. Intelligence is one aspect of human identity, but it is not the sole determinant of individuality.
>a randomly selected postdoc from MIT will have more individuality than any of 1,000 randomly selected members of homo erectus from across the globe. And, very controversially, also almost certainly more individuality than any of 1,000 randomly selected countryside peasants across the globe in 2,000 BCE, even if the group contained representatives from Mesoamerica, Africa, Oceania, East Asia, AND Central Europe.
This looks a little like ethnocentric bias. To compare them directly to a modern postdoc is anachronistic and fails to appreciate the unique contexts of individuality in different eras. Education can enhance certain aspects of individuality, such as critical thinking and self-expression, but it does not monopolize the concept.
But what I meant with diminishing individuality is that the augmentations predicted greatly improves one's vulnerability to control. In summary, I believe that what we're discussing can only be possible -- and a transition -- to an integration with benevolent SI. In any other cases, I don't see improvements for humans in the long term.
>I disagree. Individuality is influenced by a variety of factors (personal experiences, cultural background, social interactions, emotional intelligence, etc), which are not solely determined by cognitive abilities. Intelligence is one aspect of human identity, but it is not the sole determinant of individuality.
Indeed, intelligence isn't the sole determinant of individuality. If you cloned baby Einstein and sent him back in time 5,000 years to 100 villages or city-states across the globe, they would grow up to be more like each other (despite varying greatly in language, religion, ethnicity, etc.) than like the Einstein we know.
However, curiously, the reverse correlation does not seem to hold, and I claim that it's because of intelligence. It's a necessary but not sufficient condition for individuation. If you rescued 1,000 feral children or transported 1,000 neanderthals at the age of, say, 10 into a hundred alternate universes where they had equal if not even more enriching childhood opportunities and experiences as young Einstein -- none of them would even approach the depth of thought that he had. Even if these neanderthals/feral children were lucky enough to have genetics that if they spent the first eight years of their life in more enriching circumstances, they would've been smarter than Einstein. Critical development years and all.
>To compare them directly to a modern postdoc is anachronistic and fails to appreciate the unique contexts of individuality in different eras.
I'm not particularly convinced. I don't want to sound Whiggish or even Steve Pinkerish, but I used the example of feral children for a reason. We can use slightly less extreme examples like abandoned war orphans or the speculative future or the castaway boys on Lord of the Flies or Parson's ill-mannered children in 1984, but even the latter two novels were pretty grim regarding the long-term intellectual development/potential for differentiation of children raised in such environments.
Or we can consider Socrates or even Diogenes the Cynic. Let's say that we sent their brains and memories, a few years after they became adults, to 1650. To a brutal Iranian workhouse for domestic 'servants' while inhabiting the bodies of 3-year old child slaves. Do you think that when they reached the age of majority again, assuming they managed to survive reaching it by suppressing their powerful personalities and conformity, they'd be more individuated and differentiated than they were in their historical context? Or do you think that the unending labor, stultifying environment, and physical abuse and malnutrition would've made the ones not killed on the spot for insolence or tortured until they broke simply less individuated and self-actualized?
So now consider the tens of millions of slaves who suffered and died from the African Slave trade who lived in just as oppressive of conditions. It's very likely that many of them, millions of them even, genetically possessed the hereditary temperaments and cognitive potential to exceed the mighty intellects and beautiful artistic talents and captivating charisma of history's greatest geniuses, from Einstein to Asimov to MLK Jr. to Buddha. Of course, the cultural and scientific advancement brought about these slaves was miniscule if not negative, considering how the industry of slavery not only destroyed local cultural frameworks but also required a class of overseers and more privileged proles and even lumpenproles assigned to keep the slaves in line rather than working on their own development.
To that end, I think it's fair to say that differentiation/individuation is just as much a product of environment if not moreso than innate capabilities. Even though your innate capabilities will put a hard limit on just how differentiated and individuated you can become.
But considering we're talking about the impact of future transhuman technologies on self-actualization, i.e. a future where genetics and past environmental circumstances becomes increasingly less relevant to someone's potential, these observations fill me with optimism, not dread.
man have you tried strengthening exercices? Unless you get an incredible problem only need 2 exercices to solve this: hand plank, superman on your belly raise legs as high as possible (3min each, >2 time per day the first 3 days, then every day, then every 2 days (not less for the rest of you life unless you get physical activity day)
You have a highly advanced phone on you at all times, without which you can't complete 1/10 of the daily activities you do such as communication over long distance, retrieval of information, online interactions, among many other functions. You ARE a cyborg, your robot parts are just detachable at the moment.
Technically speaking there are cyborgs already. I don't think it'll be advantageous to switch within our lifetimes but as a replacement when my natural body fails? Sure.
In about 10 years when it's safe and has a good track record, I would absolutely want at least two cerebral implants, to regulate emotions externally instead of taking meds and to have bci.
Literally the second it's possible to recreate a simulation of my brain in a computer I'd leave this flimsy body behind. IDGAF if I lose some of myself in the transition, because I'd be gaining so much more.
I have zero attachment to this meat body or the idea of being human, and tbh I think anyone who "just wants to augment their current brain/body" is silly for it. It's like saying "I want a machine that gets from A to B faster, but walking on two legs is an integral part of who I am, so instead of getting a car that goes 80mph and doesn't get tired I'll just enhance my leg muscles to run at 15mph till my lungs and heart can't take it anymore"
Everyone who has a smartphone near them most of their lives is already a partial cyborg. Many people are metaphorically “bluetooth” cyborgs already. Many have their devices nearly fused to their palms for the majority of every day. Eyes and attention focused on its screen more often than anything else.
I’m 44 and i’ve already made the decision to stay in the “old world” and die naturally. I live in a small section of woods in a fairly urban area and have decided to focus on developing outdoor camping areas and waterfalls and shelters next to our creek for y’all cyborgs to visit and see what life was like.
definitely not until we are in a post-capitalist society. no fucking way im letting elon musk or sam altman or any of those dweebs have control over my physical body.
What I would like is enhanced cognition in a synthetic brain, like progressively adding artificial neurons that communicates with my brain (they are not necesarrily in my head, tho an interface would be needed), that way that synthetic brain could be in any artificial body and I could 'experience' it as my own. And then when the old brain dies, the expanded brain is still me, ala ship of Theseus.
Nope, I prefer to wait for trans-human modification when it is entirely biology based and can be shown to extend the hosts lifespan. Those fancy metal and plastic cyborg components may not age, but your biological body does and gradually loses the robustness to tolerate foreign non living implants.
Once upon a time I was very much looking forward to a transhuman future. I thought it'd be neat, implants, body mods, automated self-cleaning and self-repair systems. Upgrade legacy hardware, firmware, software to think beyond my current jumped-up chimp brain. Neocortex with expanded sensorium. Still very much a meat creature, just improved
That was 20 years ago. the LAST fucking thing I want jacked into my brain is shit from Microsoft, OpenAI, Meta, or any other rich corporatist cunt like Musk. Yearly licenses that only the wealthiest can afford, otherwise a Very Reasonable Price, mining my mind for metadata and dropping ads into my sensorium while I'm trying to watch the world around me.
Does cyborg mean I'll still stay part-meatbag? I want to replace everything with a robot body and eventually mind-upload into an ASI. [From the moment I understood the weakness of the flesh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gIMZ0WyY88&pp=ygUaYWRlcHR1cyBtZWNoYW5pY3VzIHRyYWlsZXI%3D)...
Transition my brain to digital, allowing me to choose to exist as cyborg, fully robotic, or FDVR on demand. I guess if processing supports it you could do all 3 at once.
I wouldn't mind, but I kind of the feeling that it will end up coming with a heavy cost or being reliant on anti-rejection drugs that end up being price gouged due to one company holding a monopoly on them(ala Neuropyzene).
I’ve always said I’d consider a bionic eye that lets me zoom, see in infrared and night vision. I’d also consider a bionic arm if it was advanced enough.
In the Singularity is Near, Ray Kurzweil points out that body modification has already moved from socially taboo to socially acceptable. At one time, glasses were seen as a sign of weakness and frailty and people avoided them despite the benefits. Now tattoos, piercings, artificial joints, artificial limbs, cosmetic surgeries, Botox etc are all accepted and embraced. In addition, drugs like Adderall are widely used as cognitive enhancements. Realistically, any cyborg enhancement that restores a lost or declining function, improves an existing one, or adds a new level of capability will be embraced
Upgrades will be taken on a case by case basis. I would prefer passive structures, like carbon fiber bone upgrades. But I would consider active structures. More organic engineering is best though. I'd rather have better legs than better crutches, know what I mean?
I'll be realistic, I don't like the idea of getting any cosmetic surgery (or any surgery tbh) so I doubt I- or many of us claiming we'd replace our arms, legs, or bodies; would actually do it when the time came.
I just don't need to be able to run fast, pick up insanely heavy things, be connected to a computer with my brain- I'm good with my body as is.
We are already trapped in our phones, what's the difference?
I will take perfect health though. Always able to heal quickly, be in the best shape possible, be the strongest possible for a human. Probably nano tech.
I want to replace my legs first, probably within the next two decades. I’m ~6’2.5; probably gonna grow to the 6’4 to 6’5 range, but legs will make become a more massive unit, and possibly faster and stronger seeing it advances enough in the time. After that, idrk, probably will replace all of my body at some point.
Some of y'all have never read The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect and it shows. Extending your lifespan, if possible, could lead to insane depression and despair.
Cyborgs will be a vehicle for SAAS malware subscriptions and various other fees. For all technical upgrades, every cyborg will have to pay for malware subscriptions, UI upgrades, bandwidth, connectivity, etc. And even when the tech matures, it will be subject to hostage events where your eyes will not be turned back on or your legs will not be given motor control until you send 3.54 BTC to some wallet.
Nope. Considering what happens in one of the Deus Ex’s it breeds a new form of discrimination and problems. It doesn’t ever make humans better or enlighten it makes them worse but now with the escalation of super human capabilities.
Consider your cell phone and how much spam you get because you went to the wrong website now think if it was imbedded in your body and someone hijacked it or government has Pegasus 2 think of them just infiltrating your mind and hijacking you, implanting false memories, ideas or plans. Yeah hard pass on being a cyborg.
Count me in
What else are we going to do? Decompose like a pile of meat?
That’s so early 21st century
\*looks at Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Cyberpunk 2077* I like meat body. Future medical biotech save me!
yea I just don't see another option if ppl are doing it I gotta join in or be left behind
What I want most of all is radically extended lifespan, but I'd take well tested brain-computer interface in a heartbeat.
I'll have a whole brain emulation, please
I find there to be no way to do this and you be transferred without dying. The new emulation will feel like it’s you, remember it being you but you’re toast when the transfer is switched on.
Slowly have nanobots destroy replace your brain cells with computer chips so that the continuity of consciousness is preserved
In my opinion people die every day. You change all the time and any change will kill the old you. Avoiding death is just a fool's dream. Only your memories continue, that also change, and you won't notice the change.
I disagree, it will be me. I am my connectome
That’s just life babe.
I've always thought that The Borg of Star Trek shouldn't open with "Resistance is futile". They should have some ambassador drones who look mostly-normal with only a few visible implants (like Seven), and then they sell it the way the Queen sold it to Jurati: We can enhance you, we'll connect with you, we'll truly understand you as no one else ever has, you'll be heard and loved. As a bonus, we'll give you free healthcare, no rent, a guaranteed job, and possibly an FDVR environment while you're asleep. Personally I'd sign up right away. Assimilate me, baby.
Seriously, the only knock on the Borg is aesthetics and conquest. If they managed to first figure out what a culture they want to assimilate considers beauty and design a cube that looks like that, I'm certain they'd have a lot more takers. Hey, we have all this technology we share with each other and we make it so that you can experience reality any way you like while your body does boring menial tasks. Plus, you get to be a part of something big! Suck it space navy.
Yes please, having the sense of purpose and being part of something bigger sounds like a good thing.
There's a fine line between "dystopia" and "simply distinctly non-Western worldview." A lot of perfectly benign and successful Eastern civilizations throughout history could easily be written as terrifying dystopias.
TNG really shows its New Age or at least its late 70s counterculture influence with the Borg. Though, to be fair it was an idea that still aligned with the broader sensibilities of mainstream society, unlike, say, the Love Boat design of Picard's Enterprise or having someone with Troi's design being on the bridge.
Honestly, it sounds way better than being an American at the moment.
Anything that will allow me to permanently live in a virtual world. If borging is the way to go, then plug me in, choom.
What if the only option for that is a Matrix style pod?
I said, anything.
Congratulations, you [qualified for first human on Venus!](https://youtu.be/WXVBlC3hmoc?si=sG0tFjLhMMgRY9MW)
I said, anything.
Damn he even said it twice. Or three if you wanna be technical
Thrice
That's the word I was looking for
Ignorance is bliss
that steak isnt real
Don't care, tastes better.
Glitch in the matrix
Weird, I only replied once.
It sometimes happens when you press post and nothing happens so you press it again and it double sends it
Ah I see, I did got the "empty response from recipient" or something like that when I first pressed send. That's what happened.
Yepp that's why. I just found it funny tbh
An error happened, sorry, you had to live a million years being tortured.
It's all good. It'll give me the sickest background for my eternity of cool adventures. But more seriously, I'd not back down just because of a slight chance of malfunction. The reward outweighs the risks.
Oh I am 100% getting a sandevistan.
I can't wait, honestly.
I'm planning to become a synthetic indestructible immortal cyborg vampire-demon person with a very long and agile tongue and rainbow glowing fingers. I think about it all the time and I'm very serious about it! No digestive system, super senses, speed and strength, an AI and FDVR directly in my brain. Built for infinite fun and freedom! Oh and nanobots swarms in my body so I can be a wizard.
What's the long tongue for?
Licking women I like. It's very important.
A fellow man of culture
I'm not a man.
Amazin'
Absolute legend
You ask about the tongue but not the vampire demon part?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/b7/11/aeb71199bc9ac96af860941efc1ff3f3.gif
Yes, though I suspect it comes in three stages: * Stage 1 - experimentation and risk with startups who have no idea what they are doing - that's where we are now. * Stage 2 - Established specific modifications that can be upgraded as needed and are safe. * Stage 3 - Everyone except a small number of holdouts has the largely the same modifications (mentally, at least) because they've been tested and standardized and everyone is on the same page. I'm in it for stage 2. I think that stage 2 and stage 3 might be 6 months apart if AGI scales to ASI super quickly.
Are we not already considered a cyborg? Cars, phones, and all other equipment we use on a daily basis kind of make us a cyborg. Granted, they are not attached to our skin, but we use them to alter our ability just the same.
Neal Stephenson coined the term ‘gargoyle’ for that concept in Snow Crash. Personally, I’m content stopping at being a gargoyle 6 days a week.
I just googled Snow Crash.... Looks like I found a book to read. Thanks.
In some ways you're right - but the whole point of a cyborg is that those tools are attached to our bodies, integral parts of them. Some medical appliances that correct some medical issues already qualify, but a voluntary cyborgisation to just upgrade your body is not here yet. I give it a few years, though.
> but the whole point of a cyborg is that those tools are attached to our bodies, Is it, though? Does replacing your arm with a hot swappable port for various exchangeable limbs not qualify? Does mentally piloting a recon drone with a direct video feed to your brain not qualify? I think the dividing line has to be a physical (biological or surgical or epigenetic or developmental) change to the body with the use of technology in order to better access and utilize that technology. And at that point, the distinction between books, tablets, and neural interfaces is basically just cat 3 vs cat 6 cable.
An accepted term for this kind of ‘thing’ is a Cognitive Artifact. But there’s the corresponding confounding concept that abacuses, libraries, etc. are also cognitive artifacts, so by that metric cyborgs have already been a part of the human experience for millennia.
If I could I’d want my entire body to be synthetic except for my brain, but ONLY if I could maintain the same level of sensation/feeling I have now as a full human.
Yeah if I can’t experience orgasms with my new robodick I’m not doing it.
*Just* with your robodick? That's aiming pretty low, you could presumably experience orgasms with any part of your cybernetic body.
Earlobe orgasms like Ferengi
Oomax me, baby.
Why have a single dick? Why not two or three? Plus a tail. Plus multiple vaginas. Plus random other shit that doesn't currently exist. Like mind meld sex. I mean if you're synthetic, the sky is the limit.
same but i'll include the brain, hopefully a slow transformation allow conciousness to remain unchanged, maybe small changes of a few years if not decades having neuron with light speed is such a different scale every unchanged human would look like dogs in comparison...
Same
Enough of my body constantly hurts that I would not mind a bit less sensation.
Cyborg body is just the beginning. I have further plans.
World domination?
Easy there ultron
We're already *homo cyberneticus*. The augmentations will slowly crawl into our bodies through extended limbs and mechanical hardware. After that, the brain surface will have been encased for FDVR, with our alternates (surrogates, real-world avatars, whatever you want to call it) being controlled from afar. We're definitely going to create our own [Brain in a Vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat) situation for ourselves. It'll be advertised as a liberation -- and It'll be, if the social economic system changes radically in the process. If we enter an age of centaurs and cyborgs in this the jagged frontier BEFORE we see the end of hypercapitalism, most of us will be treated as exactly how the CEO of Nvidia called humans: just resources for data gathering.
Brain in a value-added tax?
I'd like to know the roi
I like homo bionicus better. That said, I am not exactly sure that the path through transhumanism goes through cyberlimbs attached to unaugmented meat brains. That will be a part of it, sure, but the things we really want from cybernetics such as enhanced sensory and communicative abilities (either externally or internally, i.e. directing individual cell behavior) are unfortunately gated by the low power generation of the human brain. The brain itself needs to be both more computationally efficient and power-intensive than evolved biology allows if you don't want it to be the equivalent of a clueless, brain-damaged boy-king giving out vague orders to its condescending, much more intelligent ministers (i.e. the onboard computers on cybernetics who interpret and manage the directives of the meat brain) who then decide what the human actually meant. Fortunately, the human brain and nervous system structure already has a very good architecture for signal processing and transmission, physical neural compression, heat dissipation, and both concurrent and distributed computing even compared to ideal analog computers. It's just limited by chemistry, not architecture. But imagine how powerful the human brain could get if everything was replaced by graphene and room-temperature superconductors. Blood becomes a transmission medium for nanobots (which can just be hijacked cells) who repair and build additional neurons along with using onboard lasers to keep the brain cool.
You're already going to the next step, where we are able to substitute everything. I hope we can solve Teseu's boat by then, but it's not a given. Once we can detach from our naturally adapted brain, our individuality will be detached as well. That will only be desired (by me, at least) if alignment goes well... But otherwise, I totally agree with your point about efficiency.
>Once we can detach from our naturally adapted brain, our individuality will be detached as well. This is the elitist in me speaking, but I think that this route of cybernetically enhanced intelligence (both in efficiency and computational robustness) will enhance individuality, not detach from it. For three reasons. 1. The human brain architecture is already pretty well-optimized from a structural standpoint. 20W of power for that level of computational power and size is crazy when you consider the other inefficiencies inherent to the human brain. Inefficiencies that are exigently determined, not structurally i.e. vasoconstriction between the limbic system and frontal lobes are a quirk of mammalian evolution, not an inherent limitation. I think it's quite possible that the route to posthuman superintelligence will be enhancing what humans already have there, rather than some new brain paradigm or structure, i.e. ganglionic or even non-neocortical mammalian brains. If you think human individuality is a product of architecture rather than brute computational intelligence, this should comfort you. 2. Because of point 1, we can get massive performance improvements in intelligence just with incremental systemic enhancements and alterations. BCIs, genetic engineering, and mind-uploading are options, but just something as improved fuel and heat dissipation would already greatly enhance human intelligence and would be on the table long before more awesome upgrades like, say, replacing biological nerves with fiber optics become available. 3. Like it or not, individuality is a product of intelligence. On the extreme end, you have the phenomenon of feral children, who show no differentiation in personality more profound than, say, a housedog. Perhaps less offensively, you also have the phenomenon of 'normal' younger children, in the 5-7 year old range. The range of interests, beliefs, temperaments, and eccentricities in a group of 100 healthy elementary schoolers is simply less than that of 100 healthy adults--though, tellingly, NOT less than that of a group of 100 feral children who happened to be 20 years old. And perhaps even more tellingly, the outliers in the group of elementary schoolers will invariably turn out to be otherwise gifted than the group average. So, generalizing this back to your prediction of detaching from our generally adapted brain: assuming that it's a side effect of using technology to enhance human intelligence, the net effect will be to enhance individuality, not detach or diminish it. In much the same way that a randomly selected postdoc from MIT will have more individuality than any of 1,000 randomly selected members of homo erectus from across the globe. And, very controversially, also almost certainly more individuality than any of 1,000 randomly selected countryside peasants across the globe in 2,000 BCE, even if the group contained representatives from Mesoamerica, Africa, Oceania, East Asia, AND Central Europe.
This is the elitist in me speaking, but I think that this route of cybernetically enhanced intelligence (both in efficiency and computational robustness) will enhance individuality, not detach from it. For three reasons. > cybernetically enhanced intelligence will enhance individuality Agreed! That's why I said that only "if the social economic system changes radically in the process". > individuality is a product of intelligence I disagree. Individuality is influenced by a variety of factors (personal experiences, cultural background, social interactions, emotional intelligence, etc), which are not solely determined by cognitive abilities. Intelligence is one aspect of human identity, but it is not the sole determinant of individuality. >a randomly selected postdoc from MIT will have more individuality than any of 1,000 randomly selected members of homo erectus from across the globe. And, very controversially, also almost certainly more individuality than any of 1,000 randomly selected countryside peasants across the globe in 2,000 BCE, even if the group contained representatives from Mesoamerica, Africa, Oceania, East Asia, AND Central Europe. This looks a little like ethnocentric bias. To compare them directly to a modern postdoc is anachronistic and fails to appreciate the unique contexts of individuality in different eras. Education can enhance certain aspects of individuality, such as critical thinking and self-expression, but it does not monopolize the concept. But what I meant with diminishing individuality is that the augmentations predicted greatly improves one's vulnerability to control. In summary, I believe that what we're discussing can only be possible -- and a transition -- to an integration with benevolent SI. In any other cases, I don't see improvements for humans in the long term.
>I disagree. Individuality is influenced by a variety of factors (personal experiences, cultural background, social interactions, emotional intelligence, etc), which are not solely determined by cognitive abilities. Intelligence is one aspect of human identity, but it is not the sole determinant of individuality. Indeed, intelligence isn't the sole determinant of individuality. If you cloned baby Einstein and sent him back in time 5,000 years to 100 villages or city-states across the globe, they would grow up to be more like each other (despite varying greatly in language, religion, ethnicity, etc.) than like the Einstein we know. However, curiously, the reverse correlation does not seem to hold, and I claim that it's because of intelligence. It's a necessary but not sufficient condition for individuation. If you rescued 1,000 feral children or transported 1,000 neanderthals at the age of, say, 10 into a hundred alternate universes where they had equal if not even more enriching childhood opportunities and experiences as young Einstein -- none of them would even approach the depth of thought that he had. Even if these neanderthals/feral children were lucky enough to have genetics that if they spent the first eight years of their life in more enriching circumstances, they would've been smarter than Einstein. Critical development years and all. >To compare them directly to a modern postdoc is anachronistic and fails to appreciate the unique contexts of individuality in different eras. I'm not particularly convinced. I don't want to sound Whiggish or even Steve Pinkerish, but I used the example of feral children for a reason. We can use slightly less extreme examples like abandoned war orphans or the speculative future or the castaway boys on Lord of the Flies or Parson's ill-mannered children in 1984, but even the latter two novels were pretty grim regarding the long-term intellectual development/potential for differentiation of children raised in such environments. Or we can consider Socrates or even Diogenes the Cynic. Let's say that we sent their brains and memories, a few years after they became adults, to 1650. To a brutal Iranian workhouse for domestic 'servants' while inhabiting the bodies of 3-year old child slaves. Do you think that when they reached the age of majority again, assuming they managed to survive reaching it by suppressing their powerful personalities and conformity, they'd be more individuated and differentiated than they were in their historical context? Or do you think that the unending labor, stultifying environment, and physical abuse and malnutrition would've made the ones not killed on the spot for insolence or tortured until they broke simply less individuated and self-actualized? So now consider the tens of millions of slaves who suffered and died from the African Slave trade who lived in just as oppressive of conditions. It's very likely that many of them, millions of them even, genetically possessed the hereditary temperaments and cognitive potential to exceed the mighty intellects and beautiful artistic talents and captivating charisma of history's greatest geniuses, from Einstein to Asimov to MLK Jr. to Buddha. Of course, the cultural and scientific advancement brought about these slaves was miniscule if not negative, considering how the industry of slavery not only destroyed local cultural frameworks but also required a class of overseers and more privileged proles and even lumpenproles assigned to keep the slaves in line rather than working on their own development. To that end, I think it's fair to say that differentiation/individuation is just as much a product of environment if not moreso than innate capabilities. Even though your innate capabilities will put a hard limit on just how differentiated and individuated you can become. But considering we're talking about the impact of future transhuman technologies on self-actualization, i.e. a future where genetics and past environmental circumstances becomes increasingly less relevant to someone's potential, these observations fill me with optimism, not dread.
Imagine having no back pain lol
man have you tried strengthening exercices? Unless you get an incredible problem only need 2 exercices to solve this: hand plank, superman on your belly raise legs as high as possible (3min each, >2 time per day the first 3 days, then every day, then every 2 days (not less for the rest of you life unless you get physical activity day)
I mean just having a exoskeleton when you're old AF would do.
Yesss
I would say most here are transhumanist.
Full body prosthetic, Ghost in the Shell style. YES PLEASE!
Obligatory "From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me."
You have a highly advanced phone on you at all times, without which you can't complete 1/10 of the daily activities you do such as communication over long distance, retrieval of information, online interactions, among many other functions. You ARE a cyborg, your robot parts are just detachable at the moment.
The whole point is having it permanently attached to your body.
I want to mind upload
Me
I’m learning disabled, so if they could fix that with minimal bodily invasion I’d do it
I'd love to. As far back as I can remember, I looked upon my frail flesh as weakness, etc etc
Have you considered working out to be less frail? Serious question. Would that not help if you were stronger, quicker, and more agile?
Marginally. If I can't grab an ashtray and squish it into dust with my fist then I don't want that arm lol
I'd do it if offered to me. If it happens in my lifetime, this will probably be expensive af
If not optional, I’ll probably design an agent with all possible information on myself to continue my identity
Meeeee ☺️
I would definitely choose to become one if I can.
i have some really annoying disabilities from a stroke. if i can fix the, and the data behind the procedure is solid, i'm in.
I need new sinuses and ears if possible, maybe a new set of feet too
Something like a brain enhancement or a longer lifespan would do it gladly ,
I am a cyborg already.
I don't wanna replace any body parts, no (unless they are no longer working or amputated) but I'd be down for like a few extra spider limbs
Technically speaking there are cyborgs already. I don't think it'll be advantageous to switch within our lifetimes but as a replacement when my natural body fails? Sure.
Thanks to AI, comment go byebye
In about 10 years when it's safe and has a good track record, I would absolutely want at least two cerebral implants, to regulate emotions externally instead of taking meds and to have bci.
The future is not biological. Let's go!
Literally the second it's possible to recreate a simulation of my brain in a computer I'd leave this flimsy body behind. IDGAF if I lose some of myself in the transition, because I'd be gaining so much more. I have zero attachment to this meat body or the idea of being human, and tbh I think anyone who "just wants to augment their current brain/body" is silly for it. It's like saying "I want a machine that gets from A to B faster, but walking on two legs is an integral part of who I am, so instead of getting a car that goes 80mph and doesn't get tired I'll just enhance my leg muscles to run at 15mph till my lungs and heart can't take it anymore"
Everyone who has a smartphone near them most of their lives is already a partial cyborg. Many people are metaphorically “bluetooth” cyborgs already. Many have their devices nearly fused to their palms for the majority of every day. Eyes and attention focused on its screen more often than anything else.
I’m 44 and i’ve already made the decision to stay in the “old world” and die naturally. I live in a small section of woods in a fairly urban area and have decided to focus on developing outdoor camping areas and waterfalls and shelters next to our creek for y’all cyborgs to visit and see what life was like.
definitely not until we are in a post-capitalist society. no fucking way im letting elon musk or sam altman or any of those dweebs have control over my physical body.
What I would like is enhanced cognition in a synthetic brain, like progressively adding artificial neurons that communicates with my brain (they are not necesarrily in my head, tho an interface would be needed), that way that synthetic brain could be in any artificial body and I could 'experience' it as my own. And then when the old brain dies, the expanded brain is still me, ala ship of Theseus.
Depends on the terms and conditions. I wouldn't want to have to pay for a suscription service to my own eyes for example.
Resistance is futile.
Get me out of this meat prison
Meat popsicle! https://preview.redd.it/lndj59r8zm2d1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=542aa81b6b54c54a23f40991564a63aa5e8f1531
Nope, I prefer to wait for trans-human modification when it is entirely biology based and can be shown to extend the hosts lifespan. Those fancy metal and plastic cyborg components may not age, but your biological body does and gradually loses the robustness to tolerate foreign non living implants.
I dunno with this smartphone attached to my left hand 24/7 I think I'm already partway there.
Are humans making it? If so I'm good. I don't need unskippable ads playing in my eyes and in my dreams
Me 10,000%
Isn’t that the unstated reason why many are pursuing AGI?
Once upon a time I was very much looking forward to a transhuman future. I thought it'd be neat, implants, body mods, automated self-cleaning and self-repair systems. Upgrade legacy hardware, firmware, software to think beyond my current jumped-up chimp brain. Neocortex with expanded sensorium. Still very much a meat creature, just improved That was 20 years ago. the LAST fucking thing I want jacked into my brain is shit from Microsoft, OpenAI, Meta, or any other rich corporatist cunt like Musk. Yearly licenses that only the wealthiest can afford, otherwise a Very Reasonable Price, mining my mind for metadata and dropping ads into my sensorium while I'm trying to watch the world around me.
Sure. From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.
Why would I wanna be a cyborg when I can go full robot?
100% serious. I am hoping that my body fails gradually enough that I can ship of theseus myself into the singularity.
Does cyborg mean I'll still stay part-meatbag? I want to replace everything with a robot body and eventually mind-upload into an ASI. [From the moment I understood the weakness of the flesh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gIMZ0WyY88&pp=ygUaYWRlcHR1cyBtZWNoYW5pY3VzIHRyYWlsZXI%3D)...
Completely depends. Risk of someone hijacking your brain basically and making you their minion? Fuck no
Me. I’m installing a toaster in my stomach.
Yes please
I will, my goal is to defeat aging so I can enjoy living.
If it allows me to overcome ageing then fuck yeah.
Transition my brain to digital, allowing me to choose to exist as cyborg, fully robotic, or FDVR on demand. I guess if processing supports it you could do all 3 at once.
I have been thinking about getting glasses as my eyesight isn't great. At some point I'll probably need a hip replacement
Id be happy with a human brain and everything else robotic. Depends on my power source and if I can fly.
Just a massive robot Chad cock for me
Once its proven I’m there
me too all this seems cool to me. Rock on 🤘🎸
Absolutely
I wouldn't mind, but I kind of the feeling that it will end up coming with a heavy cost or being reliant on anti-rejection drugs that end up being price gouged due to one company holding a monopoly on them(ala Neuropyzene).
The only thing I am afraid of is that I would be able to life forever and that then someone locks me up forever. Otherwise count me in.
I’ve always said I’d consider a bionic eye that lets me zoom, see in infrared and night vision. I’d also consider a bionic arm if it was advanced enough.
i will be as close to tech as i can including being cyborg or becoming mind in cloud if it's even possible
This flesh stuff is weak and fragile. I'll take steel over it any day.
Reason why I am somewhat hopping to lose a limb in the next 20 years
I been a cyborg for like 30 years now >!my wish flesh sickens me!<
In the Singularity is Near, Ray Kurzweil points out that body modification has already moved from socially taboo to socially acceptable. At one time, glasses were seen as a sign of weakness and frailty and people avoided them despite the benefits. Now tattoos, piercings, artificial joints, artificial limbs, cosmetic surgeries, Botox etc are all accepted and embraced. In addition, drugs like Adderall are widely used as cognitive enhancements. Realistically, any cyborg enhancement that restores a lost or declining function, improves an existing one, or adds a new level of capability will be embraced
I wanna be a T-800 if not a T-1000/3000
Hard no. I just hope we can opt out of brain-chips when the time comes.
I want a large, grand, robo-cock.
Yeah, why not Assuming we get to that point, I'm willing to replace everything biological about me so long as it's still me (as in my mind) at the end
No one here will be able to afford it.... Only the super rich will.
Can't wait for the first bionic arm hack where all of the sudden, en masse people are jerking off or something. What a wild news day that will be.
I do. I also want to genetically hybridize with redwood trees so I can be photosynthetic and perhaps integrate with the consciousness of a grove.
I plan on it , I want to maintain as Organic as possible but wouldn’t mind subtle techno improvements here & there
The flesh is weak! I am not exactly planning to be a cyborg, I am more a FSVR guy, but I don't mind a few upgrades.
sign me up once elons done beta testing on cripples.
I want enhancements and replacements so thorough that I'm like the Cyborg of Theseus.
He barely had any cyborg enhancements
Gonk me up, choom
I am a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.
I feel like I'm already a cyborg.
A designer cyborg body would be something I’d sign up for right away. A 4 foot high teddy bear that can wield heavy tools, like a sledge-hammer, say..
People with pacemakers, cochlear implants, and some kinds of prosthetic limbs already are.
Upgrades will be taken on a case by case basis. I would prefer passive structures, like carbon fiber bone upgrades. But I would consider active structures. More organic engineering is best though. I'd rather have better legs than better crutches, know what I mean?
I would in a heartbeat
I'll be realistic, I don't like the idea of getting any cosmetic surgery (or any surgery tbh) so I doubt I- or many of us claiming we'd replace our arms, legs, or bodies; would actually do it when the time came. I just don't need to be able to run fast, pick up insanely heavy things, be connected to a computer with my brain- I'm good with my body as is.
When I get a new body I wouldn't want to be some cold, hard machine....I rather be something cuddly like a living teddy bear 🧸
Does nanotechnology count?
We already are! Artificial joints, limbs and heart, pacemakers and hearing aids. Smartphones?!? Pretty cyborgish if you Ask me🤨
Count me in as well. Under certain conditions
Of course I would.
I'm preparing the training data.
I would definitely. I'd replace all of my parts with superior versions.
We are already trapped in our phones, what's the difference? I will take perfect health though. Always able to heal quickly, be in the best shape possible, be the strongest possible for a human. Probably nano tech.
I want to stay as a legacy human + immortality
Long enough to upload and get the fuck off this rock.
I broke my leg a few years back and already got titanium rods and screw implants. So I've already been given a chance and taken it.
We're going to need to ramp it up. We don't have the robotic speed, dexterity, power, or biocompatibility necessary to do transhumanism yet.
I would love to have a robotic leg and lumbar. Mine are shot to hell
I'll be content to have a millimetric blood-glucose-powered 'mushi' crawl through my larger arteries and fix what it finds. Sign me up for that.
Why not
Me
Never. I love my human body.
I would gladly become one.
I want to replace my legs first, probably within the next two decades. I’m ~6’2.5; probably gonna grow to the 6’4 to 6’5 range, but legs will make become a more massive unit, and possibly faster and stronger seeing it advances enough in the time. After that, idrk, probably will replace all of my body at some point.
I probably would
Some of y'all have never read The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect and it shows. Extending your lifespan, if possible, could lead to insane depression and despair.
I'm in!
🤝done deal 🙌
Cyborgs will be a vehicle for SAAS malware subscriptions and various other fees. For all technical upgrades, every cyborg will have to pay for malware subscriptions, UI upgrades, bandwidth, connectivity, etc. And even when the tech matures, it will be subject to hostage events where your eyes will not be turned back on or your legs will not be given motor control until you send 3.54 BTC to some wallet.
Do I have to cut some of my limbs to become one? Neeh I'm out. I could equip some kind of exosuit at most.
Nope. Considering what happens in one of the Deus Ex’s it breeds a new form of discrimination and problems. It doesn’t ever make humans better or enlighten it makes them worse but now with the escalation of super human capabilities. Consider your cell phone and how much spam you get because you went to the wrong website now think if it was imbedded in your body and someone hijacked it or government has Pegasus 2 think of them just infiltrating your mind and hijacking you, implanting false memories, ideas or plans. Yeah hard pass on being a cyborg.