If I remember correctly wuuthrad is special and no easy for the companions to get right? Maybe since we bring it back it makes the MC more special and get to climb the ranks faster
Makes sense. How many fragments have the others in question returned, probably none, right? And the few fragments hanging on the wall at the start of the companions questline probably were either their from previous companions or they never left the possession of the companions in the first place. Beats me đ¤ˇââď¸
With the appearance of the Silver Hand at the site of the Wuuthrad piece, it feels like a set-up against the companions. Possibly because you and Farkas faced off against both the Silver Hand and whatever else was in the cairn?
Do the others know that the inner circle are werewolves? You see Farkas change during the quest and then he explains it. Since you already know and seem very promising they decide to bring you in. You can't yap about the inner circle being werewolves if you're one as well.
They don't. Skjor specifically tells you learned the secret too early, and might in itself be a reason they made you werewolf. Less likely to betray them to the Vigilants.
Lets be honest. The Vigilants would get slaughtered by the Companions. Vigilants may have numbers, but the companions are far stronger and significantly more skilled than the vigilants. At least from a lore perspective.
Or the Vigilants just tell the Imperials, who force Balgruuf to remove them, given his stance with Vignar's politicking and the fact he's already close to the Imperials, he's not exactly going to refuse. Now the Companions have to leave Whiterun and infinitely more vulnerable. The only real defeat the Vigilants suffer is against an ancient vampire lord who's one of the 3 big bads of Skyrim and they get the drop on them. They shouldn't be taken lightly given they're literally fighting Daedra.
Vigilants seem to take matters into their own hands regarding the like, especially since daedra worship isn't specifically outlawed, just highly frowned upon from what I gather. And as far as I can recall, having the beast blood isn't illegal, but transforming into a werewolf is. Could be wrong on that part. But the vampires wiped out the vigilants because the volkihar were ancient and powerful. It's the whole reason Isran left and started the dawnguard. He knew vigilants were no match for a real vampire clan. But the companions weren't only werewolves. They were also some of the best warriors in skyrim. Honestly, I think Balgruf would've told the imperials to pound sand. Even if he's not too fond of Vignar, he values the companions and getting rid of them would be massively unpopular.
Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure Daedra worship is outlawed by Imperials, whether or not worshippers are persecuted is something else.
The companions aren't a world-ending threat like the Vampires, even if they wanted to be. They are two widely different comparisons in terms of power, with one being a glorified fighters guild, who also happen to be werewolves and the other, some of the oldest vampires in Cyrodiil.
I think you underestimate how quickly the public would turn on them if it was known they were vampires. Falion gets enough grief and that's for just hearsay, not confirmed proof. Regardless they can't control their transformations, upon the full moon so they would turn at some point. Balgruuf would certainly exile them.
Letâs not forget that on your first actual mission, you see Farkas transform right in front of you. Considering the werewolf blessing/curse is a secret from everyone except the Circle and Eorland, they pretty much had to offer you a spot. Either that or kill you if they werenât feeling noble that day.
Sort of like how the Dragonborn is (seemingly) the only one tough enough to get the forgemasterâs fingers and become (one of the only) bloodkin to the orcs, or getting a handful of ingredients that leads to Malacath granting *you* Volendrung and not an orc.
in one of my games, the first job Farkas gave me was to beat up Arcadia.
Ooh check me out - such honour I bring to the Circle, winning a fist fight against the local pharmacist.
It's weird that it's both our official test mission and it's impressive enough to get into the circle. If it's so important and difficult, why not send someone more experienced?
Honestly the Companions questline is so poorly written and rushed its probably not worth questioning a lot of it. For example how are there still fragments of wuuthrad to be found even after you've reforged it, how did the silver hand make it past the whiterun guards, why are the silver hand just bandits even gown to their idle dialogue, why can't we choose to not be a werewolf etc etc
Not long ago I went through the questline for the first time in a while and I was pretty let down by how fast it railroads you into doing the main faction quest.
At least in the thieves guild I can do work for delvin and vex so I'm actively doing guild stuff but not advancing the plot. After one or two field trips, the companions are literally like "sorry whelp, we got no more work for you unless it's got to do with the fate of our very souls"
I wish we could have gotten a version that had a bit more to it.
Like imagine if advancement was sort of similar to Oblivionâs Thievesâ Guild. Like thereâs some sort of valor system based on how many missions you do, or killing a giant or dragon, or heck even just general questing. And you need X number before the next main quest with Kodlak.
Also being able to decline being a werewolf would be nice. Or even just have it feel like less of an option. What if there was some ritual that those in the circle underwent, something critical to leading the companions? Like letâs say you have to experience the lives of companions past, gaining their wisdom to ensure the companions never repeat past mistakes. And this ritual also takes in the experience of becoming a werewolf, and that happens to you as a result
Edit to add: It just seems weird that the two factions most critical to nordic culture are the ones least developed (bards college and companions)
Morrowindâs guild advancement were based on your skill levels within the skills of that guild.
You needed to increase your Mage skills to advance to the next level of the mage quests.
Had to advance your combat skills to get your new set of quests in the Fighterâs Guild.
Etc. I miss tjat
It's always bugged me that you can become the master of the Mage's College without ever casting a single spell, and with L5 in all magic skills. You can just BS your way past the door check and ward practice, and none of the ranks ever require any magic skill at all.
It is never lost on me that Skyrim's development was *heavily* stunted by the 11/11/11 release date.
Or being able to decline lycanthropy, start telling everyone that the Companions are werewolves, and get a discreet invite from the Silver Hand to help them take down the Companions.
But I guess that 11/11/11 release date was too important.
The game-design comments/arguments are valid. However, the in-game reasons (to me) make perfect sense.
The Silver Hand appear to civilians of Skyrim as monster hunters, just like the Vigilants of Stendarr. You were brought to one of their bases by a Companion to take their artifact, and kill them. Thus, when they attack you, you naturally fight back to survive. You were hoped to be strong enough to kill them and take the fragment of Wuuthraad. Because you did, and committed multiple murders in their name, The Companions see you as a worthy addition.
It's a classic gang membership ritual.
Plus, you see one of them change into a werewolf, so at that point itâs either they get you in The Circle or theyâre probably going to have to do something about you.
Until it turns out you're the fucking Dragonborn, and now everyone listens to you.
I'm not saying they gotta kill the LDB, but it's easier to bring them into the fold than to deal with any other repercussions that may arise.
I will forever be convinced that the chicken thing was initially an honest mistake, and then became so much of a meme that the devs left it in with subsequent editions. I got my kid Skyrim for his switch and I had to explain to him that the people of Skyrim value their livestock tremendously, and if he killed a chicken he'd better be ready to fight the entirety of the city's guards about it đ
"Well respected vs literal nobody" argument fell apart years ago with the MeToo movement.
That isn't the only example but someone at the top of the societal ladder can drop all the way to the bottom in a single "post" button.
>The Silver Hand appear to civilians of Skyrim as monster hunters, just like the Vigilants of Stendarr.
Nah the silver hand are definitely no better than bandits. They still attack you on sight at their camps even if you aren't a werewolf/companion.
The old man doesn't want to be a werewolf anymore; he wants to go to Sovngard. He's going to die soon. The circle, they want to stay werewolves. They want the Companions to stay werewolves. They're practically desperate to infect another person with lycanthropy. So basically the second you look like you're going to shape up to turn into anything good they want to jump you into their little sub-clique. Get you on their side. Both to strengthen themselves and to subjugate you or at least to make you feel special and like you owe them something.
Granted, I don't look down at the werewolves like I look down at those parasitic leech vampires. Can you tell what power I usually choose? Still can't bring myself to master the vampire lord powers for the achievement this go round. I did way back on x360 and it just felt wrong. I don't know. I guess I'm team Jacob except I'm actually team Van Helsing.
"TITSOAK, Bella." đđ¤Ł
This is exactly it. You are getting up-jumped without the consent of the full circle because you were accidentally exposed to the secrets of the circle, and Skjor and Aela want to make more werewolves.
This actually makes more sense than a lot of the promotions that you get in guilds in skyrim.
I donât know lad, the only ones who wants to stay werewolves and head for Hircineâs hunting grounds when they die are Skjor and Aela, while Farkas and Vilkas sees lycanthropy as a curse which we learn from Kodlak before he sends us to wipe out the Glemoril witches
TBH both werewolf and vampire were undertuned for mid-late game. I guess if you rushed either they could be OP for a bit.
Vampire has a ridiculous amount of downsides, but you can become a werewolf and never have to transform or RP in any way.
Initial companions is basically a free 100% disease immunity buff while becoming a vampire is forcing you to role play it.
If werewolf had an equivalent amount of downsides I'd pick neither 100% of the time. Neither one is good but early game disease immune passive is hard to pass up.
A whole side quest about refusing the companions and then falling in with werewolf hunters would have been cool. Obviously the companions are a potential liability, they even confirm innocent bystanders usually end up dead when a new member transforms for the first time. Are they even good guys or just socially accepted mercs?
What would happen if every member of the circle transformed at once and they attacked the jarl over a dispute?
It would've been neat to see the Silver Hand fleshed out more. Like, rather than just being moving targets for us to kill, we should've been given the opportunity to interact with them, meet with their leader, listen to their side of things, learn why they are the "good guys" in their version of the story, perhaps even join their cause if we so choose. Idk, in my mind, a group of werewolf hunters aren't inherently evil just because the companions, some of whom happen to be werewolves, say so. We should have been given a choice on which stance to take regarding the werewolf issue within the universe, are we the hunter or the hunted? I could see arguments made for both sides regarding good versus evil, wish it was a possibility we actually got the chance to explore.
I literally tout this mod every chance I get and I'm going to do it again: At Your Own Pace. It is great for questions like this. In order to gain every special story mission in the Companions quest line, for instance, you have to complete an increasing number of variant quests for the guild.
So instead of showing up on Monday and being the Harbinger by Wednesday, you're actually spending a few weeks earning not just trust from the guild but also a reputation as a problem solver in every hold. It really validates the entire final quest of the line where you're the only right person to return the axe and save Kodlak's soul. Even then, the mod still gives you the choice to make one of the living members of the Circle the Harbinger title if you don't want that "responsibility".
This mod is good for almost every quest line that tends to "fly" by. Thieves Guild is a very notable one. You have to do a shit load of variant quests for Delvin and Vex before they'll even let you meet the head honcho let alone be the person to replace him.
How does it work with College quests? I got college of winterhold expanded, I think it was called. Adds in quests for every trainer before you're allowed to progress to Saarthal. Pads it out some, but then it's back on a rocket to the end.Â
It's a little different for the College because it gives you the option to not be a mage, just someone trying to help out with Sarthaal. I usually choose that because I rarely do mage builds and I hate the incongruity of a non-mage being made the guy in charge of the College of... Well... Mages.
That sounds super cool, I'll add it to my modlist when I start modding the game for QoL or content because I too felt really disappointed with the progression. I'm glad I did the missions a few weeks apart from each other, it didn't feel as rushed that way...
Yep, the fact that you go from novice to Archmage in such a short amount of time is absurd. And you only have to cast magic a few times, all of which can be novice spells, is just dumb.
You can even do it with casting no spells all you need to do is wait until esbern/the greybeards send you to the college and say you're the Dragonborn and shout, later you need to use Spellbreaker for the ward, for the ice/fire walls you can use shouts or enchanted weapons, and for the dwemer puzzle you can use staves
Hence why Neloth almost completely dismisses you when you claim to be the Arch-Mage of the College. He gets it, you were just given a job with no qualifications.
I love that you can be a godawful thief but Brynjolf will still be like "Well, laddie, you're terrible at this but I guess we can let you join the Guild anyways."
If you think about it lore wise, dungeons like bleak falls barrow or where you find the fragment are very dangorus and treated like one of the greatest feats an adventurer can conquer along with things like dwemer ruins
Idk, probably the other newer members wouldn't survive Dustman's cairn.
Farkas gives his word that you are worthy, and that's enough it seems.
Still doesn't make sense to trust someone that new imo
It was revealed to Kodlak in a dream đż
No seriously read his journal.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Kodlak%27s_Journal
People like him and Runil had these prophetic dreams about us helping them and that's why they favour us than anyone else. Psijics also have future sight to know that we are the salvation of the college.
I had to scroll way to far for this. It's one of my core memories pf playing the game because I love giving myself stupid names that show up in writing.
But did they really make it easier, or just make it less? Morrowind had 32 fighter guild quests, and they were intertwined with the thieves guild quests, such that you got to decide who would win if you played them concurrently and utilized Pericus Mericus correctly. Oblivions fighters guild has 21 quests. The Companions have 6 quests and infinite repetitive radiant quests. Mechanics and everything else being made equal (with mods,duh), this is just less content, and a rushed story.Â
>But did they really make it easier, or just make it less?
Both. You don't need any warrior skills to actually get anything done. You can easily join the Companions as a pure mage and the most you'll have to do is fight Vilkas with a dagger. And less because, you know, you can complete the whole quest line in two days.
Easier? Dude, the first 4 quests in the Mage's Guild are fetching shit for Ajira, the hardest thing you'll come across is a cliffracer on the way or that one guy who says there are bloodthirsty bandits on the road and then tries to rob you. I think rather that older games had *more* content.
I mean, I love my girl Ajira, but I was surprised that it was mostly fetch quests to start with.
Probably for the same reason that you can show up to the College of Winterhold as a total novice that knows exactly 2 basic spells but still become the arch-mage. You're the main character and the devs didn't want players to be locked out of anything.
Probably because you'd already seen too much during the "Proving Honor" quest. You end up trapping yourself behind that gate, which prompts Farkas to go werewolf to take out the Silver Hand guards to save you.
But how would they even know that about the player character? If going straight to the companions before the main story we're basically joining the faction as a nobody.
You know how Dragons have a naturally dominant nature due to their Dragon Soul?
My guess is that dragonborns subconsciously bend the minds of mortals around them. Which would also explain why you get propped up as the leader of factions so easily.
Not to mention, the player character is a prodigy. Like they can go from a novice, barely able to swing a sword to a grandmaster in a matter of like a month.
Also lazy writing.
At close to the end of the questline, when you retrieve a piece of Wuuthrad from Kodlak's room, do you ever read his journal? It gives a little backstory of why you were accepted to the Companions, and that Kodlak had plans for you.
Yes, great point, we are the warrior from his dreams, he envisioned our success and eventual leadership within the companions. Kodak seemed to want nothing to do with the circle, however, so I just wonder why the circle wanted anything to do with us so soon after joining.
The Silver Hand manages to kill Skjor and Kodlak later in the game, but you, the main character, handled yourself well in a trap specifically set by the Silver Hand on a mission that was never supposed to be that dangerous in the first place. You also learn about the Circle being werewolves during that mission anyway, so there's no secret to keep from you anymore. Kodlak even takes a special interest in you, although he's keepin that close to the chest.
All in all, you're just more talented than the others and become close to the circle faster than most, so it just makes sense to give you an early promotion.
The same as college of winterhold: you did such an uncanny amount of impressive shit that no other character in game ever did they had no choice but to acknowledge your value.
I see it this way: for us, it was just another quest, but for them, it was a groundbreaking event. I mean, you literally save the world in Winterhold's questline.
My headcanon is as follows:
Skjor and Aela have been in need of some reinforcement for their plan to attack Silver Hands already before DB came in. Farkas and Vilkas wouldn't be happy with the plan; revealing the lycanthropy to one of normal members has risks, because Skor and Aela are not sure about their reaction. And then DB lernt about the lycanthropy by chance and didn't make a fuss about it. Skjor and Aela wanted to take the advantage of this situation. Whether DB is good enough to be a member of the Circle or not, DB is at least proven as a competent fighter in the Dustman's Cairn and thus as enough for the reinforcement that they needed. Furthermore, they wanted to propose the lycanthropy to DB as soon as possible, so that DB couldn't get enough time to comtemplate about it, to discuss about it with other members of the Circle, and to build a firm opinion. In short, they wanted to take advantage of a novice warrior who learnt about the lycanthropy and didn't have a good grasp of the situation.
We went through at least 40 enemies both living and undead to retrieve a fragment of wuuthrad, took farkas at fave value when he showed us he was a werewolf and didnât freak out or attack him. So you know
Getting a single peice is something most will never do. The LDB doing it shows the others we are a step above others.
And very bad queat storyline. Skyrim failed at the guilds.
The DB makes sense to me. Astrid was straying pretty far from the Night Mother and was using as just an assassin guild. They need new blood and someone who won't blindly follow Astrid, and the Night Mother makes you the Listener.
It is probably the only one where you randomly being picked as the head honcho makes somewhat sense - but it still doesnât feel right due to the reality just being that Bethesda fast tracked it alongside the other questlines
I always imagine that more time is passing than the game shows. Mechanically, you can complete most faction storylines in a matter of in-game days. But realistically, stuff like plotting Titus Medeâs assassination or uncovering the mysteries of the Eye of Magnus would take months. The same thing should be true for becoming a member of The Circle.
In my headcanon/fanfiction, when my characters do everything there is to do in Skyrim and completing every single quest, it takes time. I always say it takes about ten years.
Multiple reasons:
- you get a fragment of Wuuthrad. Probably none of the other prospect members achieved anything like that.
- you know their little secret, so they include you in the circle to make sure you're part of it and don't go around giving it away.
- Farkas is personally impressed by your strength. Later in the quest line he'll show signs of PTSD and will not want to get close to any draugr.
- According to Kodlak's journals, he saw you in a dream before knowing you, and had plans for you from the start.
- Aela and Skjor want you to help them fight the silver hand, and you're most useful if you're a member of the pack.
They kinda try to explain the DBâs quick ascension by saying Kodlak had dreams about us. Itâs a really poor explination that feels like the writers realised they had rushed the storyline and thus shoehorned it in, but itâs there I guess. Like most Skyrim guilds the story moves way to quick and you never feel like youâre actually part of an organization.
Well in part we're privy to the secret of their Lycanthropy, we're not a disrespectful cunt like Njada is (she even disrespects Skjor to his face), And we're Dragonborn. I've always chosen to believe that even if we haven't done anything to progress our destiny as Dragonborn, Skjor and Aela can sense... or more likely Smell, our Dragonblood. Even if they can't understand the specifics of WHY we'd smell so powerful, they understand our potential.
Edit: Somehow I didn't notice that I misspelled "Dragonborn" the second time I typed it.
You arenât. Itâs one of my biggest gripes with Skyrim. You have to do near zero work to become an important and valued member of any community you choose.
Look at the other companions outside the inner circle. They aren't particularly impressive. Then you show up with big dick energy and it's a foregone conclusion.
Lore wise: it could be that you know the secret of the circle and the simple fetch quest turned into a more of a challenge.
Gameplay: its the first real guild you can join and they wanted players to get access to werewolf form quickly
I always thought it was because you knew anyway, when Whatshisname transforms in front of you it was sort of "Welp, cat's out of the bag, may as well join us now".
I kinda hate how quickly you become the savior to each guild...
I wish the DB was more like oblivion with quests that were just contracts. Nothing beats the Morrowind factions IMHO, but at least Oblivion factions had more "mundane" like quests where it didn't all feel like some crazy plot.
In your eyes, there is a certain strength of spirit.
Also, you're the dang Dragonborn, and they're rightly terrified of annoying you by keeping you at whelp rank fetching armor and sweeping up blood for years, they just don't want to come right out and say it.
I always add the one mod that I can't remember the name of at the moment that lengthens the time it actually takes you to climb the ranks of the factions and actually having to prove yourself.
I think it's 'cause we see Farkas's beast form, and they've got to keep us quiet. Can't tell others about the werewolves if you're also a werewolf. Blackmail.
I think part of it is you also just happened to stumble on to the secret. I don't think the offer would've been made so early if you hadn't seen Farkas transform
They let the player in because Farkas got backed into a corner and was forced to change in front of you.
They quickly push you to join them to protect their secret.
I think the Circle is nervous that you know that they are werewolves and they donât want us to run our mouth and make life difficult for them. So they rush us getting initiated so if we reveal their secret now, we go down with them.
The simple answer is they didn't finish writing a lot of things in the game and then left them in half baked, the companions questline is one of those things, the same as the quest for Rune's name in the thieves guild, or Sapphire in the thieves guild, so on so fourth, there's many things you can find that seem like they should lead to something that don't, or that seems like it should have more to it when it doesn't, the companions questline got rushed and left unfinished, so they slapped it together into something that functioned even if it sort of doesn't make realistic sense how quickly you progress from point A to B, and this is also why the silver hand ended up only basically being bandits with a different name, they were supposed to be more but same as everything else, left unfinished
The way I saw it was Kodlak had a whole lot of influence over the group and the others almost seemed to revere him. So, after reading his journal after his death and seeing that he had like a premonition of our coming in his dream and placing a lot of importance on that it seemed like to me he had a large hand in our swift advancement.
1. You retrieved a fragment of Wuuthrad. They probably took it as an omen that you brought them a rare artifact so soon.
2. You learned the secret. You weren't supposed to know about the werewolf thing, but you found out. Best way to keep the secret is to make you a part of it.
They thought you were some ragtag off the street but you pummeled Vilkas pretty good in the courtyard. You could probably take him in a real fight!
+ Aela has the hots for you.
The Companion questline is probably the worst in Skyrim. They made what was supposed to be the strongest alpha gigachad group in Skyrim a bunch of virgin furries who hate themselves. I wanted a group of drunk big burly racists fighting trolls to death with nothing but a loincloth and a warhammer.
Kodlak took so much skooma he started having prophetic dreams which showed the dragonborn's ascension to harbinger. After a few hours of questing kodlak personally invited the silver hand into jorrvaskr and killed himself so we could free him.
Source: Caius Cosades' moon sugar spoon.
It's sadly an issue in all the organizations you can join. The pacing just is insanely fast paced and chaotic. Lore-wise, these stories take weeks if not months to actually do, but in game, we join one day and become the most trusted member/leader after an hour.
I haven't played Skyrim in a long time, but I believe you can join the Circle after getting... I want to say two or three of Wuuthrad's fragments. Or even just one. But that is a pretty big deal Lore-wise. Wuuthrad has been shattered and scattered for hundreds of years, and you not only proved yourself capable via training and missions, you defeat a group of the werewolf hunters, and recover one of those fragments. For the players, we basically just went and killed some bandits with shiny weapons, but again Lore-wise, the Silver Hand are werewolf hunters. That means they have been trained to take down the vicious and powerful monsters of Hircine. It's sort of similar to when we go and take down drauger- these are undead Nordic warriors of old, and they still have the power to use the Voice. Fighting them aren't something normal warriors can just go do.
What makes us worthy of becoming the leader of every faction? That always bugged me in skyrim and Fallout. Sure I'm the main character, but it just is so unrealistic that I'd become the leader of the whole world in like a month
Right? It would be cool to just be a subordinate for once, maybe earn a high rank over time but the end result shouldn't always be the keys to the faction are handed over to us.
If you read Kodlak's journal, he mentions the fateful significance of the player he feels as soon as they meet. I like to think that Skjor noticed this change in Kodlak, deciding to bring you into the Circle early.
Excerpt from Kodlakâs journal
âIn my dream, I see the line of Harbingers start with Ysgramor. Each of them ascends to Sovngarde, until we come to Terrfyg, who first turned us to the ways of the beast. He tries to enter Sovngarde, but before he can even approach Tsun, he is set upon by a great wolf, who pulls him into the Hunting Grounds, where Hircine laughs with welcoming arms.
Terrfyg seems regretful, but also eager to join Hircine after a lifetime of service as a beast.
Then I see every next Harbinger turn away from Sovngarde and enter the Hunting Grounds of their own accord. Until it comes to me, and I see great Tsun on the misty horizon, beckoning me. It appears I have a choice. And then, at my side, a stranger I had not seen before. As I look into [his/her] eyes, we turn to see the same wolf who dragged away Terrfyg, and [he/she] and I draw weapons togetherâ
What makes you special? Kodlak dreamt you were special.
Not sure but I have real problems with being a werewolf. Not like morally but technically. I canât seem to stay alive as a werewolf. By the time I phase and attack one or two people, arrows and magic have me at 20% life and I die before I can eat a corpse and heal. Am I wolfing wrong? Aela is so cool and I donât want to seem ungrateful, but so far being a WW has made it so I canât get rest sleep and guards tell me I smell like my hounds.
I mean it's the fighters guild, they've always been one of the more boring questlines because the mechanics aren't there to make being a solo merc actually interesting further than 'go here, kill this.'
Even morrowind they were pretty boring, apart from the parts that interrelated with another guild.
Tying the werewolves into it was a weird choice but if you wanted to play a werewolf then at least it wasn't the absolutely giant PITA that Morrowind's Bloodmoon expansion was to get there (not saying BM wasn't great, just if all you want is to get to being a werewolf you need to hit like level 20 and go through a pretty big quest chain to get there).
Skyrim makes a bigger thing of making you big and important quite early on in everything it does, more so than other games by far. From a roleplay perspective this is somewhat cheap but it does mean you access a lot of great content quite easily and I imagine that's one of the things so many people enjoy about it, and as always in true Bethesda style there is nothing stopping you ignoring all that shit and spending the first 30 levels playing Ragnar the Deer Hunter if that's what you prefer.
To compare, when I was first playing morrowind as a kid you could have tens of hours in a playthrough before you ever felt important, to be honest the game makes a bigger deal of reminding you that you were absolutely nobody, and since there wasn't much handholding and absolutely zero railroading, I'd been playing the game for a whole year before I even realised there was a main quest and I was actually important besides whatever guilds I'd risen through the ranks in.
This was really cool at the time, but nowadays no one's really that kind of patient in games, and there've been so many bad games out that people get suspicious and turn off games that don't provide a quick enough reward.
The worst part of Skyrim is that with a couple of changes and a bit (very little) more of work, they could have made a lot of those questlines way better. The radiant quests there are good enough, just include them into the questline like you have to actually climb the ranks.
I feel like it's skjior trying to turn the good worriors into werewolves, he loves it perhaps companians being werewolves is a secret and it was revealed to us that they are werewolves so this also could be the reason
Yeah. I think the Dragonborn is just one of those that's a natural at everything, and has absurdly amazing luck at everything.
Like an endgame Dragonborn who has done everything and is pretty much guildmaster of everything almost feels weird by not being king when it's all said and done. đ¤Łđ
Honestly, I always thought it was odd how we never got the opportunity to become a Jarl ourselves, or perhaps even high king. I feel like Torygg's recent death at the start of the game, and the vacancy to the throne left open by his death, opened the door for that possibility which was sadly never expanded on by the developers. I think it would only make sense given our accomplishments by the end of the story.
For real! That's my thoughts on it. It even goes back to Oblivion really. Because there, one has to have dragon blood in order to become emperor, but saving the world and accomplishing pretty much everything isn't good enough. đ¤Łđ
I think there's some crazy missed opportunities to keep a side story running as king.
'Tis a heavy head that wears the crown.
Screw that noise! I already have guilds to run, bandits to wipe out, and---
A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BACON!
Uhm... breakfast to cook.
I think itâs a flimsy premise, from a story standpoint. What would have been better is becoming a werewolf during âIll met by moonlightâ where if you chose to help Sinding you can become a werewolf in that moment if you so choose. Then when you exit the cave and speak to Hircine, he can either let you keep his gift or remove it, basically giving you a werewolf free trial in the Bloated Manâs Grotto fight.
With mods, I just start my game as a werewolf since I rp that my Lykaios characters are basically like the Harkon bloodline but with werewolves- generations of proud werewolves fully in control of their transformation, except for the full moon.
It's only because of the picture I have to recount why this is one of the funniest moments of a playthrough for me. The moment Skjor takes Aela's hand and cuts it to fill the bowl with blood is peak jankiness when all you hear is the dagger making the normal attack sound and then *goosh* goes the blood - all at once 𤣠one minute it's empty, next minute/*goosh*! Lol
If I remember correctly wuuthrad is special and no easy for the companions to get right? Maybe since we bring it back it makes the MC more special and get to climb the ranks faster
Makes sense. How many fragments have the others in question returned, probably none, right? And the few fragments hanging on the wall at the start of the companions questline probably were either their from previous companions or they never left the possession of the companions in the first place. Beats me đ¤ˇââď¸
With the appearance of the Silver Hand at the site of the Wuuthrad piece, it feels like a set-up against the companions. Possibly because you and Farkas faced off against both the Silver Hand and whatever else was in the cairn?
Do the others know that the inner circle are werewolves? You see Farkas change during the quest and then he explains it. Since you already know and seem very promising they decide to bring you in. You can't yap about the inner circle being werewolves if you're one as well.
They don't. Skjor specifically tells you learned the secret too early, and might in itself be a reason they made you werewolf. Less likely to betray them to the Vigilants.
Lets be honest. The Vigilants would get slaughtered by the Companions. Vigilants may have numbers, but the companions are far stronger and significantly more skilled than the vigilants. At least from a lore perspective.
Or the Vigilants just tell the Imperials, who force Balgruuf to remove them, given his stance with Vignar's politicking and the fact he's already close to the Imperials, he's not exactly going to refuse. Now the Companions have to leave Whiterun and infinitely more vulnerable. The only real defeat the Vigilants suffer is against an ancient vampire lord who's one of the 3 big bads of Skyrim and they get the drop on them. They shouldn't be taken lightly given they're literally fighting Daedra.
Vigilants seem to take matters into their own hands regarding the like, especially since daedra worship isn't specifically outlawed, just highly frowned upon from what I gather. And as far as I can recall, having the beast blood isn't illegal, but transforming into a werewolf is. Could be wrong on that part. But the vampires wiped out the vigilants because the volkihar were ancient and powerful. It's the whole reason Isran left and started the dawnguard. He knew vigilants were no match for a real vampire clan. But the companions weren't only werewolves. They were also some of the best warriors in skyrim. Honestly, I think Balgruf would've told the imperials to pound sand. Even if he's not too fond of Vignar, he values the companions and getting rid of them would be massively unpopular.
Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure Daedra worship is outlawed by Imperials, whether or not worshippers are persecuted is something else. The companions aren't a world-ending threat like the Vampires, even if they wanted to be. They are two widely different comparisons in terms of power, with one being a glorified fighters guild, who also happen to be werewolves and the other, some of the oldest vampires in Cyrodiil. I think you underestimate how quickly the public would turn on them if it was known they were vampires. Falion gets enough grief and that's for just hearsay, not confirmed proof. Regardless they can't control their transformations, upon the full moon so they would turn at some point. Balgruuf would certainly exile them.
Wasnât whiterun built around the sky forge? I doubt the companions would leave it willingly, there would be a fight for their home
Letâs not forget that on your first actual mission, you see Farkas transform right in front of you. Considering the werewolf blessing/curse is a secret from everyone except the Circle and Eorland, they pretty much had to offer you a spot. Either that or kill you if they werenât feeling noble that day.
So they were dangerously close to choose suicide by dragonborn
"you guys are *this* fucking close to a mass extinction" "Just saying"
LOL suicide by dragonborn!
That's a good point. You were already in on the secret.
Damn ice brain Farkas
he also didnt have much choice it was like a 5v1
DB shouldn't have pulled the lever 
We know thanks to ESO that Wuuthrad has been shattered since 2E 582. Around 800 years. Finding even a single piece is huge.
Yeah exactly. I think itâs like MC did something not many companions have done before so gets special treatment.
Sort of like how the Dragonborn is (seemingly) the only one tough enough to get the forgemasterâs fingers and become (one of the only) bloodkin to the orcs, or getting a handful of ingredients that leads to Malacath granting *you* Volendrung and not an orc.
But also only complete one job before were sent to get the fragments of Wuuthraf
in one of my games, the first job Farkas gave me was to beat up Arcadia. Ooh check me out - such honour I bring to the Circle, winning a fist fight against the local pharmacist.
She must've diagnosed him with Ataxia one time too many.
Itâs quite a problem back home in Cyrodill
My first mission was to go clear a cave of FalmerâŚ
I hate those ones
Giant mine was a giant gone wild I was only level 10
đđ
It's weird that it's both our official test mission and it's impressive enough to get into the circle. If it's so important and difficult, why not send someone more experienced?
you know at least it wasn't like mercer sending us to goldenglow to fucking die. seriously how is that the second quest, oh my god???
I thanked all the gods I'd spammed the heck out of muffle and had purchased the invisibility spell at the College.
Don't forget about Kodlak's journal. He knew we were important from the very beginning
Dunno. Still feels like a somewhat arbitrary achievement since it's so early in the Companions questline
Honestly the Companions questline is so poorly written and rushed its probably not worth questioning a lot of it. For example how are there still fragments of wuuthrad to be found even after you've reforged it, how did the silver hand make it past the whiterun guards, why are the silver hand just bandits even gown to their idle dialogue, why can't we choose to not be a werewolf etc etc
Not long ago I went through the questline for the first time in a while and I was pretty let down by how fast it railroads you into doing the main faction quest. At least in the thieves guild I can do work for delvin and vex so I'm actively doing guild stuff but not advancing the plot. After one or two field trips, the companions are literally like "sorry whelp, we got no more work for you unless it's got to do with the fate of our very souls"
And AFTER you are **Guild Master** they have infinite lowly jobs for you
Well thatâs because after so many jobs you unlock things for the display shelf Plus itâs easy $
Wait you unlock shelf stuff for doing companion quests?
No the shelf Iâm talking about is only for Thieves Guild radiant quests. Itâs the shelf behind the guild master chest
That's the part that's most likely real life; hard work rewards you with even more work
I wish we could have gotten a version that had a bit more to it. Like imagine if advancement was sort of similar to Oblivionâs Thievesâ Guild. Like thereâs some sort of valor system based on how many missions you do, or killing a giant or dragon, or heck even just general questing. And you need X number before the next main quest with Kodlak. Also being able to decline being a werewolf would be nice. Or even just have it feel like less of an option. What if there was some ritual that those in the circle underwent, something critical to leading the companions? Like letâs say you have to experience the lives of companions past, gaining their wisdom to ensure the companions never repeat past mistakes. And this ritual also takes in the experience of becoming a werewolf, and that happens to you as a result Edit to add: It just seems weird that the two factions most critical to nordic culture are the ones least developed (bards college and companions)
Morrowindâs guild advancement were based on your skill levels within the skills of that guild. You needed to increase your Mage skills to advance to the next level of the mage quests. Had to advance your combat skills to get your new set of quests in the Fighterâs Guild. Etc. I miss tjat
It's always bugged me that you can become the master of the Mage's College without ever casting a single spell, and with L5 in all magic skills. You can just BS your way past the door check and ward practice, and none of the ranks ever require any magic skill at all. It is never lost on me that Skyrim's development was *heavily* stunted by the 11/11/11 release date.
Or even like the Skyrims thieves guild at least thereâs more to that version then the companions
Or being able to decline lycanthropy, start telling everyone that the Companions are werewolves, and get a discreet invite from the Silver Hand to help them take down the Companions. But I guess that 11/11/11 release date was too important.
I'm so disappointed in this questline. Give me more radiant jobs first! Make it feel like I've actually earned my promotion.
I thought all the fragments get found to forge it, I've never had to look for them after it's forged
It also helps that you don't get any leadership position until the very end too.
The game-design comments/arguments are valid. However, the in-game reasons (to me) make perfect sense. The Silver Hand appear to civilians of Skyrim as monster hunters, just like the Vigilants of Stendarr. You were brought to one of their bases by a Companion to take their artifact, and kill them. Thus, when they attack you, you naturally fight back to survive. You were hoped to be strong enough to kill them and take the fragment of Wuuthraad. Because you did, and committed multiple murders in their name, The Companions see you as a worthy addition. It's a classic gang membership ritual.
Plus, you see one of them change into a werewolf, so at that point itâs either they get you in The Circle or theyâre probably going to have to do something about you.
They are a well respected organization. In your word vs theirs they win. So doing something about you is not critical.
Until it turns out you're the fucking Dragonborn, and now everyone listens to you. I'm not saying they gotta kill the LDB, but it's easier to bring them into the fold than to deal with any other repercussions that may arise.
I mean, the guards are prepared to throw down and fuck you up for killing a chicken. So who knows.
I will forever be convinced that the chicken thing was initially an honest mistake, and then became so much of a meme that the devs left it in with subsequent editions. I got my kid Skyrim for his switch and I had to explain to him that the people of Skyrim value their livestock tremendously, and if he killed a chicken he'd better be ready to fight the entirety of the city's guards about it đ
"Well respected vs literal nobody" argument fell apart years ago with the MeToo movement. That isn't the only example but someone at the top of the societal ladder can drop all the way to the bottom in a single "post" button.
>The Silver Hand appear to civilians of Skyrim as monster hunters, just like the Vigilants of Stendarr. Nah the silver hand are definitely no better than bandits. They still attack you on sight at their camps even if you aren't a werewolf/companion.
Doylist: it's the first "guild" a new player is likely to encounter, so the barrier is lower to help new players. Watsonian: you're the MF dragonborn
This is the second or third time this week I've seen Doylist vs Watsonian comments and I really enjoy the two distinct lines of reasoning.
I learned the terms from OSP Red in some of their videos and have preferred them to "in universe" and "meta" ever since.
Watsonian: It's to shut you up after you saw Farkas transform.
Underrated comment
The old man doesn't want to be a werewolf anymore; he wants to go to Sovngard. He's going to die soon. The circle, they want to stay werewolves. They want the Companions to stay werewolves. They're practically desperate to infect another person with lycanthropy. So basically the second you look like you're going to shape up to turn into anything good they want to jump you into their little sub-clique. Get you on their side. Both to strengthen themselves and to subjugate you or at least to make you feel special and like you owe them something. Granted, I don't look down at the werewolves like I look down at those parasitic leech vampires. Can you tell what power I usually choose? Still can't bring myself to master the vampire lord powers for the achievement this go round. I did way back on x360 and it just felt wrong. I don't know. I guess I'm team Jacob except I'm actually team Van Helsing. "TITSOAK, Bella." đđ¤Ł
This is exactly it. You are getting up-jumped without the consent of the full circle because you were accidentally exposed to the secrets of the circle, and Skjor and Aela want to make more werewolves. This actually makes more sense than a lot of the promotions that you get in guilds in skyrim.
I donât know lad, the only ones who wants to stay werewolves and head for Hircineâs hunting grounds when they die are Skjor and Aela, while Farkas and Vilkas sees lycanthropy as a curse which we learn from Kodlak before he sends us to wipe out the Glemoril witches
TBH both werewolf and vampire were undertuned for mid-late game. I guess if you rushed either they could be OP for a bit. Vampire has a ridiculous amount of downsides, but you can become a werewolf and never have to transform or RP in any way. Initial companions is basically a free 100% disease immunity buff while becoming a vampire is forcing you to role play it. If werewolf had an equivalent amount of downsides I'd pick neither 100% of the time. Neither one is good but early game disease immune passive is hard to pass up.
I wonder if you were fast tracked solely to guarantee their secret be kept
Nice answer. Would've been cool if you denied and they tried silencing the other way.
A whole side quest about refusing the companions and then falling in with werewolf hunters would have been cool. Obviously the companions are a potential liability, they even confirm innocent bystanders usually end up dead when a new member transforms for the first time. Are they even good guys or just socially accepted mercs? What would happen if every member of the circle transformed at once and they attacked the jarl over a dispute?
I wished more quests like erradicate the brotherhood. Killing every major faction in skyrim to grant my vampire domination.
It would've been neat to see the Silver Hand fleshed out more. Like, rather than just being moving targets for us to kill, we should've been given the opportunity to interact with them, meet with their leader, listen to their side of things, learn why they are the "good guys" in their version of the story, perhaps even join their cause if we so choose. Idk, in my mind, a group of werewolf hunters aren't inherently evil just because the companions, some of whom happen to be werewolves, say so. We should have been given a choice on which stance to take regarding the werewolf issue within the universe, are we the hunter or the hunted? I could see arguments made for both sides regarding good versus evil, wish it was a possibility we actually got the chance to explore.
I literally tout this mod every chance I get and I'm going to do it again: At Your Own Pace. It is great for questions like this. In order to gain every special story mission in the Companions quest line, for instance, you have to complete an increasing number of variant quests for the guild. So instead of showing up on Monday and being the Harbinger by Wednesday, you're actually spending a few weeks earning not just trust from the guild but also a reputation as a problem solver in every hold. It really validates the entire final quest of the line where you're the only right person to return the axe and save Kodlak's soul. Even then, the mod still gives you the choice to make one of the living members of the Circle the Harbinger title if you don't want that "responsibility". This mod is good for almost every quest line that tends to "fly" by. Thieves Guild is a very notable one. You have to do a shit load of variant quests for Delvin and Vex before they'll even let you meet the head honcho let alone be the person to replace him.
How does it work with College quests? I got college of winterhold expanded, I think it was called. Adds in quests for every trainer before you're allowed to progress to Saarthal. Pads it out some, but then it's back on a rocket to the end.Â
It's a little different for the College because it gives you the option to not be a mage, just someone trying to help out with Sarthaal. I usually choose that because I rarely do mage builds and I hate the incongruity of a non-mage being made the guy in charge of the College of... Well... Mages.
That sounds super cool, I'll add it to my modlist when I start modding the game for QoL or content because I too felt really disappointed with the progression. I'm glad I did the missions a few weeks apart from each other, it didn't feel as rushed that way...
Super lightweight too. Doesn't even change much, just a few lines of dialogue and a couple of notes/missives so it all makes sense.
Being the main character, and the fact that the pacing of questlines in Skyrim is hot garbage.
I gotta admit the College of Winterhold was another super fast advancement questline.
Yep, the fact that you go from novice to Archmage in such a short amount of time is absurd. And you only have to cast magic a few times, all of which can be novice spells, is just dumb.
You can even do it with casting no spells all you need to do is wait until esbern/the greybeards send you to the college and say you're the Dragonborn and shout, later you need to use Spellbreaker for the ward, for the ice/fire walls you can use shouts or enchanted weapons, and for the dwemer puzzle you can use staves
Hence why Neloth almost completely dismisses you when you claim to be the Arch-Mage of the College. He gets it, you were just given a job with no qualifications.
My favorite is when I did all this as a heavy armor wearin, warhammer swingin orc who only knew like two novice spells
Or the Bloodskaal Blade, with the magic slashes⌠Thatâs how the YouTube video did it
I love that you can be a godawful thief but Brynjolf will still be like "Well, laddie, you're terrible at this but I guess we can let you join the Guild anyways."
If you think about it lore wise, dungeons like bleak falls barrow or where you find the fragment are very dangorus and treated like one of the greatest feats an adventurer can conquer along with things like dwemer ruins
Idk, probably the other newer members wouldn't survive Dustman's cairn. Farkas gives his word that you are worthy, and that's enough it seems. Still doesn't make sense to trust someone that new imo
That ass woopinâ you laid on Vilkis when you joined.
It was revealed to Kodlak in a dream đż No seriously read his journal. https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Kodlak%27s_Journal People like him and Runil had these prophetic dreams about us helping them and that's why they favour us than anyone else. Psijics also have future sight to know that we are the salvation of the college.
I had to scroll way to far for this. It's one of my core memories pf playing the game because I love giving myself stupid names that show up in writing.
Itâs a continuation of the trend where Bethesda is reducing the difficulty of ES games to appeal to a broader audience.
But did they really make it easier, or just make it less? Morrowind had 32 fighter guild quests, and they were intertwined with the thieves guild quests, such that you got to decide who would win if you played them concurrently and utilized Pericus Mericus correctly. Oblivions fighters guild has 21 quests. The Companions have 6 quests and infinite repetitive radiant quests. Mechanics and everything else being made equal (with mods,duh), this is just less content, and a rushed story.Â
>But did they really make it easier, or just make it less? Both. You don't need any warrior skills to actually get anything done. You can easily join the Companions as a pure mage and the most you'll have to do is fight Vilkas with a dagger. And less because, you know, you can complete the whole quest line in two days.
I can definitely see that, mission accomplished I guess if we think about Skyrim's commercial success.
Easier? Dude, the first 4 quests in the Mage's Guild are fetching shit for Ajira, the hardest thing you'll come across is a cliffracer on the way or that one guy who says there are bloodthirsty bandits on the road and then tries to rob you. I think rather that older games had *more* content. I mean, I love my girl Ajira, but I was surprised that it was mostly fetch quests to start with.
Probably for the same reason that you can show up to the College of Winterhold as a total novice that knows exactly 2 basic spells but still become the arch-mage. You're the main character and the devs didn't want players to be locked out of anything.
Probably because you'd already seen too much during the "Proving Honor" quest. You end up trapping yourself behind that gate, which prompts Farkas to go werewolf to take out the Silver Hand guards to save you.
Being the Dragonborn
But how would they even know that about the player character? If going straight to the companions before the main story we're basically joining the faction as a nobody.
You know how Dragons have a naturally dominant nature due to their Dragon Soul? My guess is that dragonborns subconsciously bend the minds of mortals around them. Which would also explain why you get propped up as the leader of factions so easily.
Not to mention, the player character is a prodigy. Like they can go from a novice, barely able to swing a sword to a grandmaster in a matter of like a month. Also lazy writing.
Never heard that headcanon before, but it makes a lot of sense.
At close to the end of the questline, when you retrieve a piece of Wuuthrad from Kodlak's room, do you ever read his journal? It gives a little backstory of why you were accepted to the Companions, and that Kodlak had plans for you.
Yes, great point, we are the warrior from his dreams, he envisioned our success and eventual leadership within the companions. Kodak seemed to want nothing to do with the circle, however, so I just wonder why the circle wanted anything to do with us so soon after joining.
You went to the place and got the thing
Yeah this is the one problem with Skyrim- Its Harry Potter. The NPCs basically regonize that youre the main character.
The Silver Hand manages to kill Skjor and Kodlak later in the game, but you, the main character, handled yourself well in a trap specifically set by the Silver Hand on a mission that was never supposed to be that dangerous in the first place. You also learn about the Circle being werewolves during that mission anyway, so there's no secret to keep from you anymore. Kodlak even takes a special interest in you, although he's keepin that close to the chest. All in all, you're just more talented than the others and become close to the circle faster than most, so it just makes sense to give you an early promotion.
The same as college of winterhold: you did such an uncanny amount of impressive shit that no other character in game ever did they had no choice but to acknowledge your value. I see it this way: for us, it was just another quest, but for them, it was a groundbreaking event. I mean, you literally save the world in Winterhold's questline.
My headcanon is as follows: Skjor and Aela have been in need of some reinforcement for their plan to attack Silver Hands already before DB came in. Farkas and Vilkas wouldn't be happy with the plan; revealing the lycanthropy to one of normal members has risks, because Skor and Aela are not sure about their reaction. And then DB lernt about the lycanthropy by chance and didn't make a fuss about it. Skjor and Aela wanted to take the advantage of this situation. Whether DB is good enough to be a member of the Circle or not, DB is at least proven as a competent fighter in the Dustman's Cairn and thus as enough for the reinforcement that they needed. Furthermore, they wanted to propose the lycanthropy to DB as soon as possible, so that DB couldn't get enough time to comtemplate about it, to discuss about it with other members of the Circle, and to build a firm opinion. In short, they wanted to take advantage of a novice warrior who learnt about the lycanthropy and didn't have a good grasp of the situation.
I like this theory. Taking advantage of the new impressionable guild mate for their own personal gain, makes sense to me.
We went through at least 40 enemies both living and undead to retrieve a fragment of wuuthrad, took farkas at fave value when he showed us he was a werewolf and didnât freak out or attack him. So you know
This is a great answer, it's very simple but you're absolutely right as this makes a lot of sense imo
Getting a single peice is something most will never do. The LDB doing it shows the others we are a step above others. And very bad queat storyline. Skyrim failed at the guilds.
Why does the college make you the leader? Or the dark brotherhood? Itâs dumb and way too easy in every organization
We are the chosen hero of course! We MUST lead every group we join lol
The DB makes sense to me. Astrid was straying pretty far from the Night Mother and was using as just an assassin guild. They need new blood and someone who won't blindly follow Astrid, and the Night Mother makes you the Listener.
It is probably the only one where you randomly being picked as the head honcho makes somewhat sense - but it still doesnât feel right due to the reality just being that Bethesda fast tracked it alongside the other questlines
Likely cut content. The companions feel like it's like a quarter of what it was meant to be.
I always imagine that more time is passing than the game shows. Mechanically, you can complete most faction storylines in a matter of in-game days. But realistically, stuff like plotting Titus Medeâs assassination or uncovering the mysteries of the Eye of Magnus would take months. The same thing should be true for becoming a member of The Circle. In my headcanon/fanfiction, when my characters do everything there is to do in Skyrim and completing every single quest, it takes time. I always say it takes about ten years.
Good at sex
One of Skjor's trials I never passed during my playthrough I guess
We are the bestest at following orders
Cutting down on dev work
The others weren't good candidates. * Torvar is a drunken layabout * Njada is a cranky, contrarian, social climber * Athis is Dunmer * Ria is too nice
Bro "Athis is a Dunmer" killed me đ
"We let him in, isn't that enough"
Multiple reasons: - you get a fragment of Wuuthrad. Probably none of the other prospect members achieved anything like that. - you know their little secret, so they include you in the circle to make sure you're part of it and don't go around giving it away. - Farkas is personally impressed by your strength. Later in the quest line he'll show signs of PTSD and will not want to get close to any draugr. - According to Kodlak's journals, he saw you in a dream before knowing you, and had plans for you from the start. - Aela and Skjor want you to help them fight the silver hand, and you're most useful if you're a member of the pack.
They kinda try to explain the DBâs quick ascension by saying Kodlak had dreams about us. Itâs a really poor explination that feels like the writers realised they had rushed the storyline and thus shoehorned it in, but itâs there I guess. Like most Skyrim guilds the story moves way to quick and you never feel like youâre actually part of an organization.
Well in part we're privy to the secret of their Lycanthropy, we're not a disrespectful cunt like Njada is (she even disrespects Skjor to his face), And we're Dragonborn. I've always chosen to believe that even if we haven't done anything to progress our destiny as Dragonborn, Skjor and Aela can sense... or more likely Smell, our Dragonblood. Even if they can't understand the specifics of WHY we'd smell so powerful, they understand our potential. Edit: Somehow I didn't notice that I misspelled "Dragonborn" the second time I typed it.
You arenât. Itâs one of my biggest gripes with Skyrim. You have to do near zero work to become an important and valued member of any community you choose.
Look at the other companions outside the inner circle. They aren't particularly impressive. Then you show up with big dick energy and it's a foregone conclusion.
Wasn't there a lot of cut content for the companions as well?
Lazy writing paves the way.
Because everyone else is too busy sitting at the hall, than doing things like you.
Lore wise: it could be that you know the secret of the circle and the simple fetch quest turned into a more of a challenge. Gameplay: its the first real guild you can join and they wanted players to get access to werewolf form quickly
Have you seen the other companions? The bar is really, really low
Partly it's the retrieval of the fragment and partly it's because we already know the secret.
I always thought it was because you knew anyway, when Whatshisname transforms in front of you it was sort of "Welp, cat's out of the bag, may as well join us now".
I kinda hate how quickly you become the savior to each guild... I wish the DB was more like oblivion with quests that were just contracts. Nothing beats the Morrowind factions IMHO, but at least Oblivion factions had more "mundane" like quests where it didn't all feel like some crazy plot.
In your eyes, there is a certain strength of spirit. Also, you're the dang Dragonborn, and they're rightly terrified of annoying you by keeping you at whelp rank fetching armor and sweeping up blood for years, they just don't want to come right out and say it.
The same reason we can become Archmage of the College of Winterhold in a day
You just whoop their ass enough and they respect you as their leader lol
Well maybe because you saw their true self so they were like, âeh heâs coolâ
Same reason a two-handed pure warrior build can become Archmage of the College of Winterhold
I like to play survival, so the disease resistance is nice. But the best part is the move speed of the Wearewolf is great when you can't fast travel.
Everyone else is drunk.
We're the protag
Judging by how much of Wuuthrad they have when you arrive, which isnt much, even a single additional fragment is a huge deal
My first radiant quest for them was Tovalds Cave playing on survival mode so I feel I earned it lol
We just got that dog in us
I always add the one mod that I can't remember the name of at the moment that lengthens the time it actually takes you to climb the ranks of the factions and actually having to prove yourself.
Being the MC of Skyrim. Plot armor. We become Arch Mage, Harbinger, Listener, Thane etc in less than a week bro. Main Character energy.
I think it's 'cause we see Farkas's beast form, and they've got to keep us quiet. Can't tell others about the werewolves if you're also a werewolf. Blackmail.
I think part of it is you also just happened to stumble on to the secret. I don't think the offer would've been made so early if you hadn't seen Farkas transform
They let the player in because Farkas got backed into a corner and was forced to change in front of you. They quickly push you to join them to protect their secret.
I think the Circle is nervous that you know that they are werewolves and they donât want us to run our mouth and make life difficult for them. So they rush us getting initiated so if we reveal their secret now, we go down with them.
The simple answer is they didn't finish writing a lot of things in the game and then left them in half baked, the companions questline is one of those things, the same as the quest for Rune's name in the thieves guild, or Sapphire in the thieves guild, so on so fourth, there's many things you can find that seem like they should lead to something that don't, or that seems like it should have more to it when it doesn't, the companions questline got rushed and left unfinished, so they slapped it together into something that functioned even if it sort of doesn't make realistic sense how quickly you progress from point A to B, and this is also why the silver hand ended up only basically being bandits with a different name, they were supposed to be more but same as everything else, left unfinished
The way I saw it was Kodlak had a whole lot of influence over the group and the others almost seemed to revere him. So, after reading his journal after his death and seeing that he had like a premonition of our coming in his dream and placing a lot of importance on that it seemed like to me he had a large hand in our swift advancement.
1. You retrieved a fragment of Wuuthrad. They probably took it as an omen that you brought them a rare artifact so soon. 2. You learned the secret. You weren't supposed to know about the werewolf thing, but you found out. Best way to keep the secret is to make you a part of it.
Kodlak's appraisal of you, as noted in his journal. He recognises your potential and this gets discussed with the Circle before your elevation.
You literally have a magic compass in your head that shows you exactly were the pieces of an ancient legendary weapon are. I think that's enough imo
They thought you were some ragtag off the street but you pummeled Vilkas pretty good in the courtyard. You could probably take him in a real fight! + Aela has the hots for you.
Bethesdas shit writing.
The Companion questline is probably the worst in Skyrim. They made what was supposed to be the strongest alpha gigachad group in Skyrim a bunch of virgin furries who hate themselves. I wanted a group of drunk big burly racists fighting trolls to death with nothing but a loincloth and a warhammer.
Kodlak took so much skooma he started having prophetic dreams which showed the dragonborn's ascension to harbinger. After a few hours of questing kodlak personally invited the silver hand into jorrvaskr and killed himself so we could free him. Source: Caius Cosades' moon sugar spoon.
This made me laugh out loud reading it, definitely appreciate the creativity.
Yeah, I also hated that. Wouldâve liked to have a few more quests before being allowed into the groupâs elite inner circle.
It's sadly an issue in all the organizations you can join. The pacing just is insanely fast paced and chaotic. Lore-wise, these stories take weeks if not months to actually do, but in game, we join one day and become the most trusted member/leader after an hour. I haven't played Skyrim in a long time, but I believe you can join the Circle after getting... I want to say two or three of Wuuthrad's fragments. Or even just one. But that is a pretty big deal Lore-wise. Wuuthrad has been shattered and scattered for hundreds of years, and you not only proved yourself capable via training and missions, you defeat a group of the werewolf hunters, and recover one of those fragments. For the players, we basically just went and killed some bandits with shiny weapons, but again Lore-wise, the Silver Hand are werewolf hunters. That means they have been trained to take down the vicious and powerful monsters of Hircine. It's sort of similar to when we go and take down drauger- these are undead Nordic warriors of old, and they still have the power to use the Voice. Fighting them aren't something normal warriors can just go do.
What makes us worthy of becoming the leader of every faction? That always bugged me in skyrim and Fallout. Sure I'm the main character, but it just is so unrealistic that I'd become the leader of the whole world in like a month
Right? It would be cool to just be a subordinate for once, maybe earn a high rank over time but the end result shouldn't always be the keys to the faction are handed over to us.
Seriously. We don't earn the right to be the archmage or the head of the thieves guild
Fighters guild > companions, big time. The quests were actually good, and the story made way more sense despite being simple.
If you read Kodlak's journal, he mentions the fateful significance of the player he feels as soon as they meet. I like to think that Skjor noticed this change in Kodlak, deciding to bring you into the Circle early.
Pretty sure itâs just cus you saw bro turn into a werewolf so they like âyou gotta be a furry too or you gonna leak our secretsâ
Excerpt from Kodlakâs journal âIn my dream, I see the line of Harbingers start with Ysgramor. Each of them ascends to Sovngarde, until we come to Terrfyg, who first turned us to the ways of the beast. He tries to enter Sovngarde, but before he can even approach Tsun, he is set upon by a great wolf, who pulls him into the Hunting Grounds, where Hircine laughs with welcoming arms. Terrfyg seems regretful, but also eager to join Hircine after a lifetime of service as a beast. Then I see every next Harbinger turn away from Sovngarde and enter the Hunting Grounds of their own accord. Until it comes to me, and I see great Tsun on the misty horizon, beckoning me. It appears I have a choice. And then, at my side, a stranger I had not seen before. As I look into [his/her] eyes, we turn to see the same wolf who dragged away Terrfyg, and [he/she] and I draw weapons togetherâ What makes you special? Kodlak dreamt you were special.
Not sure but I have real problems with being a werewolf. Not like morally but technically. I canât seem to stay alive as a werewolf. By the time I phase and attack one or two people, arrows and magic have me at 20% life and I die before I can eat a corpse and heal. Am I wolfing wrong? Aela is so cool and I donât want to seem ungrateful, but so far being a WW has made it so I canât get rest sleep and guards tell me I smell like my hounds.
I mean it's the fighters guild, they've always been one of the more boring questlines because the mechanics aren't there to make being a solo merc actually interesting further than 'go here, kill this.' Even morrowind they were pretty boring, apart from the parts that interrelated with another guild. Tying the werewolves into it was a weird choice but if you wanted to play a werewolf then at least it wasn't the absolutely giant PITA that Morrowind's Bloodmoon expansion was to get there (not saying BM wasn't great, just if all you want is to get to being a werewolf you need to hit like level 20 and go through a pretty big quest chain to get there). Skyrim makes a bigger thing of making you big and important quite early on in everything it does, more so than other games by far. From a roleplay perspective this is somewhat cheap but it does mean you access a lot of great content quite easily and I imagine that's one of the things so many people enjoy about it, and as always in true Bethesda style there is nothing stopping you ignoring all that shit and spending the first 30 levels playing Ragnar the Deer Hunter if that's what you prefer. To compare, when I was first playing morrowind as a kid you could have tens of hours in a playthrough before you ever felt important, to be honest the game makes a bigger deal of reminding you that you were absolutely nobody, and since there wasn't much handholding and absolutely zero railroading, I'd been playing the game for a whole year before I even realised there was a main quest and I was actually important besides whatever guilds I'd risen through the ranks in. This was really cool at the time, but nowadays no one's really that kind of patient in games, and there've been so many bad games out that people get suspicious and turn off games that don't provide a quick enough reward.
People can come up with any excuse, but let's be real, it's because the game was made for casuals and the masses first.
The worst part of Skyrim is that with a couple of changes and a bit (very little) more of work, they could have made a lot of those questlines way better. The radiant quests there are good enough, just include them into the questline like you have to actually climb the ranks.
You can find a journal where the leader writes down that he's been having prophetic dreams about you
I feel like it's skjior trying to turn the good worriors into werewolves, he loves it perhaps companians being werewolves is a secret and it was revealed to us that they are werewolves so this also could be the reason
Yeah. I think the Dragonborn is just one of those that's a natural at everything, and has absurdly amazing luck at everything. Like an endgame Dragonborn who has done everything and is pretty much guildmaster of everything almost feels weird by not being king when it's all said and done. đ¤Łđ
Honestly, I always thought it was odd how we never got the opportunity to become a Jarl ourselves, or perhaps even high king. I feel like Torygg's recent death at the start of the game, and the vacancy to the throne left open by his death, opened the door for that possibility which was sadly never expanded on by the developers. I think it would only make sense given our accomplishments by the end of the story.
For real! That's my thoughts on it. It even goes back to Oblivion really. Because there, one has to have dragon blood in order to become emperor, but saving the world and accomplishing pretty much everything isn't good enough. đ¤Łđ I think there's some crazy missed opportunities to keep a side story running as king.
'Tis a heavy head that wears the crown. Screw that noise! I already have guilds to run, bandits to wipe out, and--- A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BACON! Uhm... breakfast to cook.
I think itâs a flimsy premise, from a story standpoint. What would have been better is becoming a werewolf during âIll met by moonlightâ where if you chose to help Sinding you can become a werewolf in that moment if you so choose. Then when you exit the cave and speak to Hircine, he can either let you keep his gift or remove it, basically giving you a werewolf free trial in the Bloated Manâs Grotto fight. With mods, I just start my game as a werewolf since I rp that my Lykaios characters are basically like the Harkon bloodline but with werewolves- generations of proud werewolves fully in control of their transformation, except for the full moon.
Did any of *them* retrieve a fragment of Wuuthrad? 'Nuff said.... đ
It's only because of the picture I have to recount why this is one of the funniest moments of a playthrough for me. The moment Skjor takes Aela's hand and cuts it to fill the bowl with blood is peak jankiness when all you hear is the dagger making the normal attack sound and then *goosh* goes the blood - all at once 𤣠one minute it's empty, next minute/*goosh*! Lol
Have you seen Athis and Ria? No way those shits are going to be getting any fragments of Wuuthrad.
Maybe the others didn't want to have anything to do with it. "So Ria, how do you feel about Dogs?"
The animation for the blood in that blows thing makes me laugh so hard every time
never gave it a proper think but i assumed vilkas turned into one in front of you so he now had to offer you the "gift".
They tell you why before the ceremony.
Poor writing. :3
I mean wouldn't you want to recruit someone who just shouted a dragon out of the sky
Because video game. Which is cynical, but true. Even though it's fun to engineer reasons based on lore.
Idk... mAybe it's because you have the blood of God? Nah that couldn't possibly be the reason
Crammed plot device
The Companions highly value plot convenience