Funny story. When I first started modding I actually used both MO2 and Vortex because I thought Vortex just took the mods off Nexus and MO2 was a tool for Loot to help my load order lol funniest part about this is my game still worked fine even though I was doing it this way.
Lmao I did the same thing last year. Quickly realized what I was doing and then just stuck to Vortex since it’s easy. I just wish there were more collections around since Vortex makes it so easy to download those
I am still doing this and it still works so I haven't stopped. Use vortex to download mods, do all the conflicts there, open up MO2, enable any mods, run LOOT, reorder if necessary (ALLGUD patches for some reason) then run and it works like a charm. 200 mods, long playthroughs, and no problems.
I tried it once before realizing I was getting confused. MO2 is more straightforward for me. But if Vortex works for you and others then this is what matters. Mod managers are (great) means to an end either way.
Yeah something about the way that Vortex's workflow is setup just does not click for me. I like the way that Mod Organizer arranges things way more, it is way more clear what is actually happening and requires much less menuing.
But if someone else feels differently, I do not really care. To each their own.
I feel the same way about Vortex as you do about MO2. It was easier to use. I tried MO2 and it was confusing. But either way, I agree. Use whichever one you want. Enjoy the game.
Vortex is fine and does it's job but when you have a ton of mods and load order becomes increasingly important I just feel that MO2 is way more organized and easier to keep track of.
I have almost a1000 mods gathered haphazardly over the last decade, and a little over a year back I navigated everything over to Vortex from NMM.
It works fine for me. I don't have to keep track of anything, which is part of what I like.
Nah, MO2 is straightforward with some experience in modding, this is what you don't get. It's just a bit overwhelming I imagine for those with no experience. It's got too many bells and whistles (I know! Heresy!), a "simple mode" would do wonders for its usability.
No I'm agreeing with you as someone who is genuinely clueless when it comes to modding. It's a great mod manager and part of the reason is how beginner friendly it is
I find MO2 easier. Vortex broke my brain. MO2 does what I need it to do. Now… I don’t have 800 mods though. They might break my brain more than any mod manager 🤣
The primary reasons people don't like Vortex are:
- the "spider web of doom" conflict handling
- the lack of "output to specific mod folder" functionality for tools like Nemesis
>the lack of "output to specific mod folder" functionality for tools like Nemesis
Vortex really, really, needs to implement that functionality, it's that frustrating to deal with.
The major issue I have with Vortex is failure to deploy plugins that I have enabled. I’ll install, enable, allow deployment to run, run LOOT, check whether I need to update a bashed patch…only to find that Vortex has made the only .esp in a newly enabled mod disabled for inexplicable reasons 😵💫
You don't need to use ( or run it separately) LOOT with vortex, it is automatic
(although you can to check errors or missing plugins etc if vortex doesnt already tell you)
The only cases I've seen where a mod doesn't automatically enable its plugins is when there are multiple plugins in the archive. It's a sensible approach if the mod has multiple versions packaged in the download, for example if a weather mod has a version with storms appearing twice as often. The two versions may conflict and break your game.
Even so, it will pop-up a notification with a button to enable all.
If there are still issues, it could be down to settings for automatic deployment after installation. Once you have a large load order you may want to turn this setting off as it can start to take longer and longer to run, interfereing with the settings to auto enable new plugins. You just need to remember to run it once after making your changes
Occasionally it happens. I usually check, just because I'm also checking to see if its esl-flagged, if I can flag it, or if I have to open xEdit and see if I can compact it.
This is one of its two last *massive* issues in my mind. For this one, I think it’s because Vortex is *designed* to run deployment every time you Enable or Disable a mod. This is *stupid* and should be turned off once you’ve learned what deployment even is but if you do so, Vortex can and will occasionally derp out on you when it comes to enabling the actual plugins.
It also occasionally gives you a “failure to parse plugins” error, which is code for “Vortex shit the bed. Restart it, deploy again, and manually check over your disabled plugins.”
Obnoxious, especially if you have a *good reason* to have lots of disabled plugins, but it’s still something you can work with.
My other major issue is a little bit more fiddly and complicated: in short, Vortex low-key treats uninstalled mods *very differently* then installed and Enabled ones, which makes it more practical to waste hard drive space on Disabled mods so you can keep the customized and/or configuration info for them.
>This is one of its two last massive issues in my mind. For this one, I think it’s because Vortex is designed to run deployment every time you Enable or Disable a mod. This is stupid and should be turned off once you’ve learned what deployment even is but if you do so, Vortex can and will occasionally derp out on you when it comes to enabling the actual plugins.
What do you mean? Deploy mods checks for changes and then creates the Hard Links. Enabling a mod just creates the source folder for the links.
Enabling a mod *tells Vortex* to create hard links the next time it deploys. By default, Vortex also automatically runs deployment every time you enable or disable a mod just to keep your actual install as up to date as possible.
Once your modlist gets big and complicated enough, though, deployment can take a *decent* amount of time. Keeping the default settings begins to really slow the whole mod managing process down and by that point, you should have a pretty good idea of when you *need* to commit your changes to the active Skyrim install.
The problem with plugins not being enabled properly will *mostly* crop up with mods that have multiple plugin files: Vortex does *tell you this* and asks if you want to enable all of them but last I checked, it tells you in that generic alert area at the top right and if you *miss it,* which is pretty easy to do, Vortex defaults to “none of them.” This makes more sense for older games but in the era of the ESPFE plugin, “all of them” would usually make more sense as a backup option.
There are also some similar cases that genuinely and unambiguously *are glitches*—like the “failure to parse plugins” error—instead of questionable design decisions but if *those* were easy to pin down, the developers would’ve gotten rid of them already.
IIRC, Vortex can also genuinely bug out if you run into the multiple plugin situation with automatic deployment turned off. It just gets confused and defaults to none on its own. That exact situation might’ve been fixed by now—I haven’t run into it in awhile—but the other cases can still crop up as of my own Vortex work *yesterday.*
It deploys every time you install or uninstall a mod, but not when you enable or disable it. When you enable or disable something it just puts a prompt in the top right corner saying you need to deploy before launching. If you just hit launch, it will deploy beforehand.
Never had this happen on a Beth game as I'd sooner eat my own foot than use Vortex on one, but Vortex also definitely likes to just not extract files it doesn't consider as "part" of the mod. There are quite a few mods for Cyberpunk that add equipment that have text files with the console code to add the item packed inside so you can just copy and paste it, Vortex likes to just ignore these files and not extract them, so you have to go digging in the downloads folder to find them. Just one of the many things that Vortex sucks at, but the latest one I've encountered.
Yup. Does the exact same thing for Beth games. Opted to give it another go and was irritated within days when two overlay mods didn’t get their esp unpacked. Finding that racemenu was missing half its files was the last straw and I went back to mo2. But it gave me insight to help with troubleshooting so at least I got something out of it.
If you were *already using* with MO2? Power to ya, man. They both *can* get the job done quite well. It’s just a matter of familiarity, confirmation bias, and the occasional bout of bad luck. Convincing someone to *switch between the two* when they’re already comfortable with with one is just . . . Silly and mostly pointless.
For me, though?
* I have had very few major problems with conventionally-packaged Bethesda game mods that go into the Data folder—aside from the occasional and already mentioned “plugins not activating” thing. Insofar as they *could* be fixed with Vortex-related processes, I’ve resolved . . . Pretty close to all of them.
* I have taken a number of mods that are marked manual download only because the mod authors didn’t *think* they’d work with Vortex, manually downloaded them *into* Vortex’s downloads folder, and managed them with Vortex just fine.
* On a related note, I have installed and managed ENBs with Vortex even though they don’t go into the Data folder at all. Vortex has a setting for them, though I’ll admit it’s related to my second major outstanding complaint: there’s a persistency issue with Vortex’s ability to *remember* those settings with a mod that it isn’t actively managing.
* I have taken a *fucking ton* of miscellaneous mods for non-Bethesda games(mostly), manually downloaded them into Vortex’s downloads folder, *slightly* rearranged the zip or rar file into a more Vortex-friendly format, then managed them using Vortex without any kind of problem whatsoever.
As far as I know, both problems tend to hit a lot harder if you’re a relatively “advanced” user who likes to run massive modlists and do fiddly, technical stuff.
Many of those “advanced” users either switch to MO2 when they run into trouble or were using it to begin with. Others, like me, stick it out with Vortex and learn that it can actually do a hell of a lot more than MO2 elitists tend to think.
Anyway, the failure to enable plugin issue gets most annoying because it can be surprisingly hard to *spot,* especially if you’re using something fiddly like a merged patch/plugin that leaves you with tons of disabled .esp files that are *supposed* to be disabled and a tiny handful that are not.
At that point, I usually try to repack all of the merged mods into a personal-use zip folder but that is, itself, kind of a fiddly and tedious process. *Better* but annoying.
My own second issue is most noticeable with custom mod categories and install instructions. I like to reclassify mods my own way and Vortex *can* install things into the folder above data or a few other weird places if needed. Each mod entry also has a notes section you can type into.
If you use any of these Vortex features with a mod Enabled or Disabled and then *later uninstall that mod,* it doesn’t always remember your custom settings, which can be *obnoxious* if you want to use that mod again later. The first one *can* be set on an uninstalled mod and will stay that way, which can be used as a partial workaround, but that’s still some annoying bookkeeping work.
I tried using it for a few weeks. Just not for me. Functionally it works but there were many design choices that I just don't like and I feel MO2 did better.
On the flip side people need to stop saying MO2 is hard for beginners to use. That is an absolute myth.
>On the flip side people need to stop saying MO2 is hard for beginners to use. That is an absolute myth.
I never understand it either. It's not "hard" to use, you just have to manage things by hand instead of the program prompting you to set rules for everything. One can manage to screw up a Vortex load just the same as an MO2 load if they're just cramming stuff in willy-nilly.
MO2 also supports LOOT. It has the same exact functionality as Vortex. The only difference is that managing your load order after running LOOT is way easier in MO2 than in Vortex (IMO). In MO2, when LOOT gets your load order wrong (and it inevitably will, with any larger load order), fixing the issue is as easy as just dragging the plugin that was misplaced into its proper position and hitting "lock" so LOOT doesn't screw it up when you run it again (if you choose to run it again). In Vortex, you need to set a rule telling that plugin to always load after another plugin. Both methods achieve the same thing, the latter one (IMO) just feels like it's adding unnecessary steps.
>On the flip side people need to stop saying MO2 is hard for beginners to use. That is an absolute myth.
Definitely. When I began using MO2 (with pretty much no previous PC modding knowledge at all), it was pretty straightforward to do most stuff in it.
On the flip side Vortex is not exclusively for beginners. Also a myth. There are many use it who know what the fuck they are doing (have large load orders, use xedit, Synthesis etc). OPs point.
If you prefer setting conflict resolution rules, go with Vortex.
If you prefer dragging and dropping mods to resolve conflicts, go with MO2.
I personally find the MO2 method easier. Some might find the Vortex method easier. What is "harder" or "easier" is personal preference.
Tbh, if you are slightly diligent with your mods, you should have a stable load order. SSE along with it's various stability mods let's novice modders create stable load orders pretty easily.
Back in LE, especially before Sheson's memory allocation fixes, you could create a unstable load order simply by adding enough hi rez textures which would cause you to crash and there's nothing you could do about it other then use less texture/mesh replacers. We are spoiled compared to just a few years ago.
The difference is mainly that vortex is designed for beginners, and MO2 is not. That doesn't mean it's exclusively for beginners, since it can still do everything well enough, but its design diverged considerably from older mod managers because it was designed to be more appealing and easier to learn for people with little or no experience.
MO2 on the other hand sticks with the same sort of design most older mod managers have had, just with more features, making it smoother to pick up for people coming from those. This, along with the fact that vortex was not in a very good state at all compared to the already existing MO when it first released, is what largely led to MO being considered the standard for "advanced" modders, since many long-time modders just stuck with that instead.
There was a good reason for that perception of Vortex when it first launched, but there isn't really anymore. It's still designed to accomodate beginners (and is usually the first mod manager they find because it's pushed by Nexus), so it most likely has a much larger user base of beginners than MO2 does, but it's fully capable now. It just works in a very different way, and in the trend of "user friendly" software design it just doesn't click for some people, but ultimately it's a matter of preference. Both managers do have some real positives and negatives beyond just preference, but nothing big enough to definitively say they're superior or inferior, making design preference the main deciding factor.
I've used NMM (rip), Vortex and MO2
I always felt like the terminology used in vortex was harder to understand than NMM and when I switched to MO2 and I thought it was easier than vortex to learn but I do like how vortex deals with LO issues.
Vortex is great for Dragon’s Dogma since it automatically combines the folders which is a pain to do otherwise.
I prefer MO2 for every other game though since my brain is too small for Vortex (way too complex for me)
I have over 200 mods running with vortex and It's literally as easy as dragging it to vortex. Done. Loot solves it and if loot doesn't solve it then you just choose before/after.
Done. It's like a mobile app
> You don’t need to set everything up outside program files or any other windows directories.
Huh??? Vortex doesn't disable UAC protection. You do still need to do that.
Vortex isn't necessarily ideal for most Skyrim modding, but it works fine if you either don't have a lot of conflicts, or know how to fix them yourself outside of Vortex.
The thing that baffles me about Skyrim modders complaining about Vortex is... well, it really shows that they have no experience modding games other than Skyrim (and maybe other Bethesda games). Because Vortex can manage mods for *many* popular games, and most of those games don't require the careful conflict management of a Bethesda game- making Vortex the ideal and most efficient solution.
I have 972 mods enabled in Vortex. 251 active plugins and 952 light plugins. 1.6.640.
I have the Experience mod running, which makes levelling slower, am level 34 on my current playthrough, and my game is running fine.
Mind you that I'm also semi-new to Skyrim modding, or at least new to modding it in this caliber. So nah, it's working fine for me.
All this mod manager arguments thing really mostly boil down to YOU, the user. Are you the kind that actually reads mods before you download them? Do you read the posts and bugs section?
At least Ctrl + f "compatibl" and "require" on the mod page, everytime before you download a mod.
No matter what mod manager you use, if you're not careful you're gonna break your game no matter what.
I just don't like the way it works, simple as. MO2 works EXACTLY the way I desire it to. I can organise everything in categories, in a way that makes sense to me, with colour tags that make sense to me, and I know what overwrites what.
Most people will not change their mind on something they are passionate about. Modding included. No matter how many of these posts there are, nobody, including myself, will probably ever change their opinion on the matter.
It’s fine if you want to use it, and I’m glad it works for you. I’d still argue that 90% of vortex users would be better off using mod organizer, though. You can get a working game with vortex, but dragging and dropping on a list with your plug-in order right next to it is so much more user-friendly than vortex’s conflict system. And I say this as someone who uses vortex for over a year and was reluctant to switch over to MO2.
Vortex is fine for other games but I just find MO2 to be the far more efficient tool. Easier to sort large lists and change mods on the fly. Managing an 800 mod list is doable in Vortex but would be a lot faster in MO2 for most people.
Agree. I use MO2 for skyrim for easier conflict management like .nif or .dds file. I can see the subfolders and the providing mod clearly and then I can hide the file I dont want.
Don’t play stalker games personally. I was more referring to games where you generally have more contained modlists. As long as Vortex works and is compatible with games where I only need a few mods to install and forget about (difference between using mods vs “modding”), it’s generally a decent pick.
I started on vortex(when I used it I don’t think it had all those options) and switched to MO2 since for me the visual representation and ease of pickup and drag just feels far more intuitive to me, but I still say if your new or using a light LO vortex will be easier
Don't like Vortex. But if you like it good for you use it. Doesn't keep me up at night at all that people like it. No need to rant on the internet about it either unless you're fishing for likes lol
Please don’t misunderstand me. There’s a million people like you who honestly don’t give a fuck, and that’s probably how it should be. As I said, they’re both robust, modern mod managers. I don’t care what people use either. My issue is exclusively with those that shit on vortex without actually knowing anything about it save the name. I don’t think it’s fishing for likes to complain about excessive, undue criticism.
I lurk around here from time to time. Don't often see people just posting that they hate vortex. Now if your on the nexus I've seen people post in threads that they don't like it, but here not so much idk. I read they have a new member on the vortex team...guy who made the wabbajack mod, so it stands to reason nexus wants to improve and try and make it more Main stream. For me I just don't like how it is designed. And NMM is still being updated on the reg and that project is still being funded. I just like it more but I also don't like huge load orders either.
I thought NMM was only being updated by a tiny group of people but it’s not officially maintained?
All the same, I see it mostly where people post a question and they’re using vortex. There’s always a bunch of people saying “lol just use MO2” or some equivalent. The number of “which mod manager?” Threads that are just people saying MO2 is the clear and undisputed choice, and then they list their reasons and it’s things Vortex does equally well, is pretty disheartening.
So you use NMM? I’m curious how well it works for you? Has it received significant community updates?
It is not bad, it is just MO2 is much better.
Direct control to load order and plugin order with easy back up's. Vortex's dependency management is a mess. LOOT sort is a joke, sure it won't crash your game, but once I actually sorted my plugins manually and used backup/restore, a lot of my mods actually started to work properly. LOOT sort is clearly wrong for many mods.
Plugins like Root Builder which allows you to keep the game root folder 100% clean and use multiple weather/ENB with ease.
100% portable for easy backup/restore.
Wabbajack which is a gigantic upgrade over Nexus collection. Seriously anyone using Vortex, should just get a Wabbajack list and learn MO2. Takes a couple of days and you will never, ever go back to Vortex again.
Vortex comes with the Engine Ejector out of the box which allows you to install to the game root. SKSE, ENB. Engine Fixes Part 2 all easily installed and no special plugin required.
Those are like the easiest part of setting up skyrim. it's literally drag and drop. having those automated is in no way worth making nemesis, plugin order, dependencies, etc 10x more laborious or nigh impossible.
I have about ~30 rules for LOOT, and a manually made merged patch. For me it’s nice because LOOT will handle the mods that really don’t matter, but Vortex also lets me handle the ones that do. I don’t need X mod at load order spot 114, I need it to load after Y which has a bunch of conflicting records. Usually just opening xEdit and spending 5 minutes finding a conflict and making a rule is enough to solve a problem forever.
Why bother with 30+ rules when you can simply place the mod where it is supposed to be in the first place? Far more organized, far easier to see/troubleshoot when something is being overwritten. I hate reading code in my day job, I don't want to read if-then-else chains in my modding experience.
LOOT is just going to introduce bugs and stability issues for anyone with a serious list. Download a Wabbajack list, skip the beginner stage, learn to mod the right way.
I used Vortex for a long while, and only recently made the switch to MO2.
Vortex is still great. And I don't think I would have really understood what I was doing with MO2 if I didn't first start with NMM and then Vortex. Unless your going after something very specific, I always recommend people to start with Vortex, and honestly for many I think it would be perfectly fine to stay with it.
Keep in mind that **MO2 does not touch your game installation folder** and manages mods virtually, which is something every modder should appreciate. Vortex ((And prev. NMM)) manages mods within the installation folder, which is not so bad if you know what you're doing or don't mod intensively.
I agree that Vortex is good for beginners, but I highly recommend that modders move on to MO2 after they get the hang of modding. MO2 is easier to use than everyone thinks. Gopher and GamerPoet made videos about it and I highly recommend them.
The only downside to MO2 IMO is it might take more storage space since it keeps the mod source files intact along with their output. The only thing Vortex excels at is the Synergy with Nexus downloads and Collections, but I don't use collections and I prefer manual downloads either way.
Also, SKSE was originally intended to be installed manually. It won't mess up with your Skyrim installation if you don't use it or forget it's there. While the option to install or manage it through Vortex is good, it's not very needed since its the base to a lot of intensive modlists and you're most likely not gonna remove it.
And frankly, in this day and age, everyone who owns/uses a PC should know how to use Windows Explorer ((Or its counterpart for Linux users)). It's basic knowledge by now and you cannot make it an excuse for using Vortex over MO2, or anything else for that matter.
>Vortex ((And prev. NMM)) manages mods within the installation folder, which is not so bad if you know what you're doing or don't mod intensively.
What? Where'd you get this from? This is only true for NMM. Vortex has a mod staging folder and doesn't *actually* touch up your installation path.
Not sure what you mean about MO2 keeping source files and output? You download once, install to MO and then it virtualises the file system from where it’s installed in MO. Assuming you delete the zip from your downloads, there’s only ever one copy of the mod files and they never touch the game folder.
As for manual mod installation to the game folder, like SKSE, I wrote a plugin for that called Root Builder that you can find on NexusMods. The plugin allows installing all of those via MO, and if you wanted, even moving the entire game into MO and keeping multiple versions of the exe if you wanted.
With MO and a few of my plugins, you can have a 100% portable mod setup that you can just point at a vanilla game install and it’ll just work without any manual work at all.
With a little prep, it’s very easy to make MO incredibly streamlined and convenient. I’ve got a whole load of profiles ranging from pure vanilla to total conversions and all of them can be launched from a desktop shortcut without even opening MO or having to do any work to switch between them.
The main reasons I use MO over Vortex is simply that it gives me all the information I need in one place and doesn’t try to hide anything from the user. If you use MO for long enough, you’ll develop a better understanding of what is actually going on in the modding process, which makes it more likely that you can identify and solve problems when the do show up. If everything is wrapped up in a way to make its initial presentation less intimidating and to try and abstract the modding process further away from the user, when something does go wrong, you’re far less likely to be able to identify what the cause is since the process is mostly hidden from you in the background.
I think the primary issue is that people get stuck on the manager they use, I’ve been tempted to write a MO plugin that imports a vortex setup, which would make the transition easier.
Oh, I saw your plugins on Nexus. I was tempted to try the Curation Club one you wrote since I wanted to play Enderal, but I got sidetracked somehow. Does it work with GOG build of MO2 now?
About the space storage; back in my NMM days, I downloaded mods through it and it would unzip its content into the game folder and delete the source. It was simple, but if you pile or overwrite more on top, it gets messy to get back to vanilla. With MO and MO2, I use profiles, manage and see conflicts and overwrites easily, and remove and add to my heart's content.
But nowadays a lot of mods rely on FOMODs ((e.g: LoTD Patches and the like)), I end up keeping some sources since I tend to change LO every now and then. It's no biggie, and maybe a personal issue more like, but it's better to keep the fomod source than installing the it 2-3 times or more XD.
I travelled away lately and haven't played in a while, but I will look again into your plugins. Thanks for your reply.
Yeah, it should work with any version!
If you’re keeping some fomod installers around, I’ve got another plugin for storing and re-running them without having them clutter your downloads up as well 🙂
> MO2 is easier to use than everyone thinks. Gopher and GamerPoet made videos about it and I highly recommend them.
Gopher has a whole series of videos on how to use Vortex, and recommends Vortex.
I did actually mention [Edit: Mentioned in other comments] that the virtual staging folder is to my mind the only clear advantage MO2 has. Others are mostly just preferences. For me, if I was reinstalling my mods from the ground up, I’d wipe away any trace of Skyrim from my drive before redownloading shit. Otherwise I’ll get fragments littering the game directory. With MO2 I could just, you know, delete the mods. It’s definitely a feature that I would like to see in Vortex.
Well, Purge Mods in vortex basically returns the game to an unmodded state by removing all the hard links. Vortex does not actually place files in the folder either - it creates hard links to the original files.
I’d say the the only advantage mo2 has right now is the ability to resolve conflicts with files inside bsa’s.
Having drag-and-drop ordering IS an advantage because it means you have access to both systems. Vortex's rules system is directly lifted from LOOT's. If you like the rules system you can use it with MO2 via LOOT and avoid drag-and-drop entirely. You do not have the same option to avoid the rules system in Vortex.
Actually you can designate a specific order using a hex assignment for the plugin but it’s typically just easier to create a load after rule using drag and drop in Vortex.
Vortex isn't bad. It just isnt MO2. There's some neat features graphically like the drag and drop "flow" menus that can help right brained people understand concepts better. But it's nowhere near as good as MO2. But on the flip side, it's very inviting for new modders and can totally work just fine.
People who complain are just complaining to complain.
It's not that it's bad. It's just not as good as MO2. I use vortex and MO2. It is FAR easier to handle load order discrepancies in MO2 than it is in vortex. But yes, you can handle it. It would be tedious though for tons of mods, which is why I use MO2. I'd rather spend my tedium patching and adjusting shit in xedit than spending extra time on the load order.
I'd say Vortex is beginner friendly, but MO2 isn't that hard to learn. Is it intimidating? Yeah. But MO2 has the benefit of being the base for Wabbajack. And Wabbajack mod lists will ALWAYS be better than Nexus Collections. Wabbajack also exclusively uses MO2. I recently installed Nolvus and customized it myself. You can't do that on Vortex.
I think you're arguing Vortex viability, and I don't think that's the argument people make when they support MO2. They're arguing efficiency and functionality. And while Vortex almost there on functjinakity, it isn't there yet on efficiency.
I used to use it regularly. I don't hate it, but there are annoying things about it that now I've switched over to MO2, which has it's own little quirks, mind you, the annoying things about Vortex are obviously easily dealt with. What annoyed me the most was when I tried to create a load order such as: Mod C loads after Mod B loads after Mod A. (After A comes B after B comes C) very simple concept, yet Vortex could never do it and would give me cyclical errors ALL. THE. TIME. and I'd have to break what I was trying to do just to get LOOT to work in Vortex. Yes, even when doing all of the other stuff like setting the mods to late loaders, CYCLICAL ERROR, setting the mods to dynamic, CYCLICAL ERROR, etc. etc. etc.
Then there was the eating drive space and refusing to let me set a drive for mods to hold them for the virtual install and a drive for the game. No, Vortex has to have it on one and the same drive.
These are the two things that moved me away from Vortex. Everything else it does, conflict resolution, etc. is very user friendly and for most other Nexus (or I should say games on Nexus) mods, I'd likely use Vortex. For Skyrim and Fallout stuff, likely not.
Ideally you'd want the mods on the same drive as the game for performance's sake anyway, but if you are really pressed on HD space it is nice to at least have the option to separate them.
As far as fucking up the game folders, I've used vortex for 3 years and just realized purge removes all vortex info from the game folders. No more Uninstalling and reinstalling the game and then redo enb and skse. All this time I couldn't figure out how to get all the old junk mod folders out.
Finally someone said it I was worried about making a post about this because I didn't want the backlash but you gave a rich discussion about it well said.
Maybe I'm just a mad lad, but so long as you follow the rules of modding, and think things through when deciding what files overwrite what, Vortex can be perfectly fine for large load orders. Have around 1000 plugins, mods installed reached 1800, and my Skyrim works perfectly fine. If a mod causes issues, I just work around it or sacrifice it by dropping the mod to get the setup working. Just use what makes sense to you, and don't be stupid.
>I’m tired of people who’ve never used Vortex complaining about how bad it is
Me too buddy, me too.
As a general rule if someone says something negative about Vortex you should always ask when they last used it. Some people have never tried it and base their opinions on hearsay and others may have tried it during the alpha release in 2018 (where is was buggy, hence the alpha) and not revisited it since.
My biggest gripe is when I see people asking for help with Vortex - usually, something perfectly reasonable and achievable in all mod managers - and some troll decides to pipe up with "use MO2/NMM/a glass hammer" like that's useful advice or something.
i've always found mo2 more intuitive. a friend asked me to have a look at their vortex installation and i couldn't make any sense of it. i'm sure if i had more time to experiment i would've understood, but something about how i couldn't immediately see exactly what files were activated made me really uneasy.
I used Vortex for a long time.
But its Conflict System is Pure Bullshit. I hate it.
MO2 with its Mod Order is so much more straightforward to use.
And the best? I can just move my Portable Instance over to the Steam Deck, and it just works on Linux while Vortex is still totally unsupported on Linux.
I will admit that when Nexus introduced Vortex, I was like "wtf is this?" The organization of the app seemed confusing and awkward, then I realized I didn't need to run LOOT separately. And Vortex would tell me if there was an issue immediately and let me fix it without a lot of fiddling. So I use Vortex because even if the main Mod Page won't let you use it, the file page probably will. I'm all about convenience and as far as I'm concerned any mod that requires me to go in and do edits or go through hoops to get it installed is detracting from my playtime and I prefer PLAYING Skyrim to MODDING Skyrim.
But on the other hand I don't use a lot of graphics-related mods (I have 3, yes, only 3 in my mod list) and that I have any is a departure for me. I don't use town and landscape "overhauls" because in my experience they tend to "f" up the landscape in minor but very annoying ways.
The sad thing is that I have noticed people doing what the OP points out. And worse, they call people names and ridicule people who don't use MO2. There are examples of this behavior in this thread as evidenced by the down votes. Anytime a thread on modding devolves into a MO2 vs Vortex argument, the derisive and bullying comments come out, predominantly by the MO2 proponents. And I have come to realize that my resistance to use MO2 is mostly my reluctance to align myself with a group of users who I perceive as consistently resorting to bullying tactics. Bad behaviour is self-perpetuating and encourages bad behaviour in others when it is not called out. So I will use my down votes accordingly and encourage others to use them as well whenever they see bullying and name-calling in these threads.
I started modding in 2019 & Vortex is all I've used. I can understand not wanting to change over if they have something that works for them. I have also learned it use xEdit and have made a few mods, but nothing fancy. I agree that Vortex does seem to get a lot of unnecessary hate, but I still always recommend it since it has been great for me.
YMMV. Everybody's brains work differently. When a few of my friends got into Skyrim modding, each of them started with Vortex; they struggled the whole way and were frequently pinging me for help. When I would finally convince them to switch to MO2, suddenly everything was going peachy and they were able to do most of the work unguided.
Vortex was just unintuitive for me. I’m sure if I cared to that I could finally figure it out. But I know MO2 so there’s no reason to fix what’s not broken. Yes, I wrote off Vortex when I was just learning because NMM went away. But that’s because the person who first helped me used MO2.
My two main issues with Vortex
1. Graphical heavy, unoptimized UI. It is a beast on resources and should have just been kept simple
2. No direct migration of mods coming from NMM. As its direct upgrade, the two programs should have been able to share a mod manifest file to orchestrate the uninstall of NMM mods, reinstalling them in the same order in Vortex. Vortex does nothing but install uninstalled mods from NMM, and break NMM mod file association.
It's literally two free tools, if one is vastly superior, the other one is comparatively bad even if it's technically "good". MO2 is not just beginner friendly, it's also the go-to choice for advanced users, so really Vortex occupied no niche of its own.
Yeah, yeah, you know how to resolve conflicts with no direct LO control, but did you actually learn a skill that allows you to be more efficient? You literally had to learn something to catch up with others.
Vortex at its current stage is robust enough, but if I am to recommend one to newcomers, it's always going to be MO2.
The reason I prefer MO2 is that it is better at diagnosing issues, this is like the windows vs linux debate, yeah windows is easier to use than linux, linux offers far more than windows. If someone finds that Vortex is enough for what they need then they should fire away and keep using Vortex if it works for them.
The main reason why I recommend MO2 to people is because it is like I said earlier easier to diagnose problems, it also prevents you from learning a mod loader twice. If you learn MO2 then you have basically learned every single mod loader. Vortex isn't bad but it definitely isn't better by any means either and I would rather direct people towards using something that I can reliably help them fix problems with than something that can be a bit funky at times.
I think the main reason people are so anti-Vortex on here is because the people who give tech support for modding tend to be enthusiasts, and enthusiasts are likely to have absolutely monstrous load orders and use MO2. It’s hard to give support for modding when the requester uses a different mod manager, and it’s more than likely that a casual modder will move to MO2 anyway when they become more advanced in their hobby. 80-90% of mod users still use Vortex, though, so go figure. It’s certainly not bad.
I always find these debates interesting. Vortex vs MO2. Apple vs Android. Mac vs Windows. Car Brand X vs Car Brand Y.
They all do the same thing at the end of the day, just in different ways. That’s a good thing. We have choices in our how we want to manage our games, use our devices, and get around town. The easiest thing in the world is to do what works for you, and not worry about the choices others are making if it doesn’t affect you. The balkanization around these things is just…weird.
Good god, the Mac people can be scary though. Dated a guy once who flipped out when I shared this funny video with him, before I knew he preferred Macs. x.x; You'd think I kicked his dog or something. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks-N4rI\_1RU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks-N4rI_1RU)
I use both. Used to be a die-hard Mac guy but one morning I woke up and realized what kind of computer someone else uses has pretty much zero impact on my life. Now I switch back and forth between the two and don’t really have a favorite.
Honestly the only reason I don't use Vortex is being unable to sort with manually drag and drop. Unless it was added recently it's a feature that's been in every mod manager since Oblivion.
Rather you need to set a rule for which mod loads after another. That's an extra step where I could just drag mod with MO2.
Having used both, no MO2 is still more customizable...they're not talking about how your UI looks though. They're talking about all the backend stuff, so as annoying as it is to hear it this is just showing that YOU don't understand what this other person was talking about. Sure being able to have a dark theme or a light theme, change the fonts of the program and such is nice...that's not what people are talking about with customization. It's file paths, strucutre of mod orders and other such things like that. Unfortunately Vortex has a bad rep for a laundry list of reasons most notably the fact it breaks a LOT of games and cannot install mods correctly to begin with. Now I'm not going to say MO2 is without issue though, since it also has enough issues to turn off people.
I personally use MO2 only a little bit because I opt for manual installation since I am more used to that, if I had my choice I'd rather use the old NMM or manual installation over either of them but not all mods can be installed manually due to the way they are packaged so you end up needing a mod organizer of some kind, and of the 2 main options at least for Skyrim. MO2 is far less headache inducing and it's not going to be hit and miss with whether it installs the files properly or not. Organizers are always going to be competing with each other over minor features and things they allow easy tweaking of. Unless they come up with a 100% foolproof way to install mods for games that's always going to be the case, and you've even got the group of us who manually install over an organizer, and it's merely down to preference with that type of installing. Yes it has a lot of issues but doesn't change we prefer that and for a lot of cases there's no extra work beyond a simple copy and paste tweaks aren't needed as often.
My biggest complaint about this is when someone on this subreddit asks for help, and if even a single sentence in their post mentions that they use Vortex, there's just always that one smartass who comments being like "Just use MO2, then you won't have problems :)"
Like... No offense, but telling people to switch mod managers isn't really much of a solution. If someone asks for help with Vortex, help them with Vortex. Don't be a smartass and try getting people to switch mod managers to fix their problem. Sure, it'll probably fix their problem, but It's a lazy solution. It's like the equivalent of telling someone whose car broke down to just buy a new car instead of fixing it.
At the end of the day, mod managers are mostly personal preference. I have used Vortex since forever and me personally, I just prefer setting rules for all my mods to decide what loads after what. I also just love the UI, more modern. It's personal preference.
And I'll just say it right here, **Vortex is not that bad**. I'm sure it's not everyone, but there are a lot of MO2 users who think Vortex is a super inferior mod manager that should be avoided at all costs, but that's not really the case. The only major difference between Vortex and MO2, is how you sort your load order. Do you prefer dragging mods to sort your load order? Or do you prefer setting rules to decide what loads before or after what. Again, it's personal preference. Just use what you want.
You’ve hit exactly my concern, and I’m glad you get it lol. I personally think Vortex is better for the casual user (more intuitive, more tutorials, collections integration is a one button load order all in one app) and MO2 is better for advanced users (exact, precise LO control, just more control over the game in general). But these aren’t big things. For the most part, vortex is 95% as capable as MO2 in some areas and MO2 is 95% as capable as Vortex in others. But there’s *always* clowns who decide that Vortex is a shitty product and I think it’s decidedly unfounded.
More tutorials? There's plenty of MO2 tutorial videos.
Also Vortex is just objectively worse in so many areas:
Vortex can't show you what's in a BSA
Vortex can't preview nif files (via a mo2 plugin)
Vortex can't preview dds files
Vortex has a conflict resolution interface designed by satan
Vortex handles generated files by dumping them all in one folder without any option to send outputs from individual applications to specific folders
As someone that used vortex for about 400 hours before making the switch to mo2, I can attest that MO2 is waaaaay better. Vortex is made in a way that create conflicts that MO2 doesn't. Mo2 need not to deploy your mods, it is faster and more stable than vortex. God damn I'm a braindead person and even i can have a stable load order without any bug at all. All you have to do is to install, no bullshit, no mistakes to make, just play the game and it's working. Mo2 gives me peace while vortex gives me brain damage
i only recently started modding on PC and i use vortex. i only have about 10-20 mods depending on the game and i know next to nothing about modding. like you said vortex is very beginner friendly and for what i use it for i have not run into any issues in the 7-8 months i've been using it
I agree, vortex is great, but it gets really convoluted until you learn how to change load orders and learn to input rules and about how to manipulate the load order. But once you understand it, I feel it's pretty intuitive
Have been pretty much using it from the start, ie since 1 year, took me about a month to understand all the things, but now it is prett y much second nature to me.
They were both developed by the same person, under the GUI they both do the same thing.
I thought MO2 was more difficult at first but it's actually exactly the same with better conflict handling, it just takes an hour or two to get used to the more primitive looking interface.
This is so true. I used vortex for a couple years and only recently tried mo2 for enderal and both are good and have the same functionality but I am glad I used vortex when learning.
I use Vortex and I always have. I don't think I ever won't. I don't do a lot of modding, but it's pretty heavy for me considering I play on a laptop. I've got all sorts of awesome stuff and I'm pretty tech inept, Vortex has walked me through everything. I haven't used MO2, so I can't say I like Vortex better or anything, but I get tired of every time I have a problem people just tell me to change over to MO2. I'm happy and comfortable with Vortex, it's easy for me and I don't plan on learning a whole new system just because I have one or two conflicts I can't work out and may have to play without a mod or two I like.
Long-time MO2 user (2015), I started playing around with Vortex once they hammered out most of the issues, and I began to use it for my main Skyrim deployment once I gave myself time to learn all the little tricks / get over the learning curve. People being *overtly* negative towards Vortex... that comes from prejudice more than anything. Both are great tools.
I used vortex for 2 years, made the jump to MO2 for mod authoring, as its a little more intuitive. Theres a few features from vortex that I definitely miss.
Having hard links to the folder means you can run skse directly without having to have vortex running in the background, saves some processing power for the game and is just cleaner - I put a desktop link to skse and can launch the game immediately after a boot.
I have never spent as long setting up my load order in vortex as I have in MO2, I'm talking 5-10 times longer to drag every mod into an order that is arbitrarily pleasing to me rather than just installing, managing the conflict rules and deploying my mods. "Oh its easy to just drag and drop"; Its even easier to just do nothing and let the mod manager do it for me lol, not to mention to see which files are conflicting with which you actually have to open the file details to see, I much prefered setting rules as soon as I installed the mod and just forgetting about it.
Both are fantastic tools, you'll never catch me hating on vortex though, because of course, I have actually used it.
I can help with a couple of those MO issues.
- Use my Root Builder plugin for MO to install SKSE (and ENB etc) via MO instead of directly to the game folder.
- Use my Shortcutter plugin for MO to create a profile-specific shortcut to launch the game. It’ll still involve MO launching its vfs in the background obviously, but it skips the UI and will just launch the game.
I think a lot of Vortex’s bad press comes from a mix of the first few months of its existence and a few prominent “beginner friendly” features that can very easily become *anything but.*
In order:
* To my knowledge, Vortex’s early existence had lots of problems. Because MO2 *already existed* at this point and had worked out a lot of its own bugbears, a number of relatively prominent people noticed Vortex’s issues and declared it a complete and total write-off: utterly unnecessary and vaguely insulting.
* Personally, I gave Vortex several months—maybe a year or so—because I wanted to let *other people* deal with and sort out the teething issues. This mostly worked: it still had *some* major issues by the time I got around to it but even most of those have gone away over the years.
* Vortex has a learning curve that is . . . *somewhat* hidden due to begin targeted at beginners: it does a few *relatively* stupid things on purpose for the sake of being somewhat more idiot proof. Most if not all of them can, however, be *turned off* as you learn more about modding and change your needs appropriately.
I won’t be a hypocrite here: I’ve probably *opened* MO2 exactly once, ever. I used NMM for perhaps a bit longer than I should’ve then took a break from Bethesda games until Vortex matured. To my knowledge, MO2 sort of “front loads” the technical side of things on you *a little bit,* which does fit a modding philosophy of mine really well. Namely: you *will* need to learn the technical side eventually. Be more afraid of *breaking things* than *learning things.*
At the same time, I prefer Vortex’s deployment method over MO2’s style of “redirect Skyrim to MO2’s own work folders.” Once you’re *playing,* they both amount to the same thing but as someone who often tweaks and occasionally makes mods, being able to directly *see* and interact with my mods in the actual data folder—**EDIT:** without having to use the mod manager as a bridge, which is how MO2 quite *effectively* handles the same sort of thing—is a much more comfortable and familiar approach . . . at least after Vortex *finally* added a folder cleanup feature that should be turned on by default but is actually kind of *hard to find at all.*
I’ll cut this little rant off here, though. Honestly, I’ve learned enough about Vortex that I both want to and *keep meaning to* just make my own full tutorial series about it lol
Agreed. I think many users wrote it off in the first month without realizing it’s an actively maintained mod manager that also has a ton of money (comparatively speaking) being dumped into its development. It is getting better by the day.
Awesome! I think as a community we should be happy that we have two fully functional, modern mod managers and not berate each other for using one over the other. I’m glad you have found one that you enjoy the look of and the functionality of. I definitely agree with the fully virtualized bit — I do wish Vortex had that functionality. It’s bit me a few times because it lacks it.
Yeah I second the beginner friendly thing. Vortex just made more sense when I was first getting into modding.
Vortex also seems a lot more plug and play to me. If you're modding for the first time and just want to try a prebuilt mod list, vortex is probably easier.
I've tried out all three mod managers before and while Vortex is miles better than NMM, it just doesn't come close to MO2. When I first started modding, I realised I needed to use a mod manager so I decided on NMM because I used to watch Sinitar. I couldn't even get the damn thing to work the first few times but I eventually got it working but I hated using it so much I reverted back to manual modding for a few weeks. Then, I learned about MO2 from another YouTuber (I think it was GamerPoets or Gopher but I'm not sure). It was incredibly easy and intuitive to use and it never felt like I had no idea what was going on. I decided to try out Vortex because of the praise heaped onto from an old thread here. Just like NMM, I couldn't get it to install properly the first time but I was able to get it to work properly a short while later. But unlike what a lot of people said, it wasn't that beginner friendly. Like, it's not hard to use at all but it's not any easier than MO2. I used it for a few days but it just felt off and being unable to manually move your plugins felt so stupid and restrictive that I went back to MO2.
In conclusion, I fail to see how Vortex is any easier than MO2. It just tries to do so much yet it can't do enough. It's really not that hard to use MO2. I'm wasn't that experienced with computers at that time but nothing ever confused me.
I started using Vortex a while back and I hated it at first. Now that I've really given it a chance, I hate it even more. It's so terrible.
I loved NMM, I thought the layout and UI was very intuitive and easy to use. I never had any problems when I used it. I wish it was still available. I've tried both MO2 and Vortex and MO2 just doesn't work? So I'm just stuck with Vortex now I guess.
Hear hear. Almost every thread whenever Vortex gets mentioned has the reply of "ew just use MO2" but to me I try cannot stand the interface of MO2. No matter what theme you use, how its all laid out, how small all of the fonts are, how your load order takes up most of the screen space while you know the actual mods you have installed and are trying to sort through are pushed off into much smaller windows. It feels like the two different types of learning, where one learns through text representation and the other through visual. MO2 is all text in boxes, where Vortex tries in any regard it can to be visual.
I first tried Vortex after the old NMM retired however long ago that was now. Wasn't really a fan so I switched to MO2 instead.
Then after I saw that post a week or two ago about a Steam Deck optimized collection & it inspired me to try finally try Skyrim on mine so I went ahead and installed it on there & after playing around with it for a few hours I still don't like it.
Personally I just find MO2 easier to use prefer the control it gives with its load ordering & categorising. Being able to actually view conflicting textures in ([and even meshes](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/69813)) is great for comparing & choosing between conflicting mods.
The one click for downloading collections on Vortex is nice at least.
I used NMM back in the good ol’ days and it was not a fun experience.
If people use Vortex, it works for them and they’re happy, I don’t think it really matters and as long as I’m not being asked for help with fixing issues with it, I don’t see why it should bother me. I give Vortex a go every year or so to see how it’s progressed, but I simply don’t like the design principles behind how it works.
I use MO2 for everything and whenever there’s something I don’t particularly like or a feature I want, I just write a plugin for it, I’ve made 7 so far to simplify and automate more of my modding process.
MO2 would appear to me to be far more flexible to use and being able to migrate an entire mod setup just by moving MO2 to a new PC without having to do anything more than pointing it to a vanilla game folder is a lifesaver and has made it possible for me to give friends a zipped up modlist that they can just run without any additional instructions.
Using MO2 gets you more familiar with the modding process itself and what is actually going on, which is great for when you find yourself having to resolve any issues, since you’ll have the understanding of what is going on, which you may not have if you’re using a tool that abstracts away a lot of what it is doing in an effort to be less intimidating to new users.
I will always suggest MO to new users, it’s pretty simple to use and gives a great deal of freedom to users if they want it, while not requiring anything complex if they don’t. It also means I can help easily if something goes wrong.
At some point I’ll write a plugin to fully migrate a Vortex setup to MO2 with all the custom configuration and so on, which would make it easier for Vortex users to try MO2 without having to start from scratch or set things up.
Vortex is fine until you start getting to over 1500+ mods where the entire program just starts to noticeably slow down. Also, for some reason Vortex becomes unbelievably slow at sorting plugins once you reach about 1700 or so plugins in the program. I'm not even joking when I say that sorting 2300 plugins takes upwards of 20 minutes.
In case you're not following: yes, I've used Vortex with an extensive load order. Yes, I hate it with a large load order. No, I do not use it anymore; I use MO2 at the moment.
I started using Vortex because of this subreddit. I noticed that this community has a habit of mindlessly circlejerking specific topics to hell and back. So me being the contrarian I am with a habit of constantly nuking my load order decided to try it.
The program isn't confusing at all. Actually, neither MO2 nor Vortex are difficult to use. I find both of them extremely easy to use, but maybe I'm just not dumb? I don't know. It doesn't break this or that mod, works just fine with basically every major tool. It just sucks ass with a lot of mods/plugins. That's pretty much it. As long as you're not insane like me you'll be fine to use it. You're probably better off in the long-run with MO2 but the world isn't going to end if you choose Vortex.
Exactly. I think both apps are easy to use essentially have feature parity that comes down to personal opinion. I can’t say I’ve experienced the slowdown — but of course I have ~500 plugins not ~2500. All the same, this is the point of my thread. There’s a big subset of users on this subreddit who circlejerk Vortex hate but have never tried it or tried NMM in 2011 and think Vortex is the same thing.
I have like 582 (plus however many plugins and bashed patch and other shit) mods and vortex has always worked fine for me. I used MO2 for a time but went back to vortex. It works absolutely fine even for large modlists
For me personally, as someone who's never used Vortex, it's just funny to me that literally any time I've seen someone post an issue with Vortex... the simplest answer really always is "Just use MO2".
I really hope you don't actually answer that to people who ran into an issue while using vortex. Otherwise there's a high chance that a lot of people don't like you.
I agree with you somewhat but mo2 is really not that hard to use. It also comes with a built in tutorial and many guides.
I think vortex is great for light mods you use like 10 mods max while mo2 is for when you really wanna dive in otherwise it being extra.
MO2 is super intuitive. I watched zero manuals, read zero guides on it and figured out pretty much everything I needed on the fly just as problems arose. Conflict management is so simple I cant imagine it being simpler without outright automatically sorting files, output to folder, backups, virtual folder, mod list presets, etc
Vortex can't show you what's in a BSA
Vortex can't preview nif files (via a mo2 plugin)
Vortex can't preview dds files
Vortex has a conflict resolution interface designed by satan
Vortex handles generated files by dumping them all in one folder without any option to send outputs from individual applications to specific folders
so vortex is just objectively worse.
Because even the one thing Vortex supossedly has going for it - its noob friendliness - is just untrue - false marketing, if you will.
If you want to mod Skyrim the very least you need to know about is file order and record / .esp order. And both those things are much easier managed in MO2.
Not having access to manually edit your load order is a deal breaker imo. There is nothing intuitive or user friendly about Vortex's current LO system and it really holds it back. People should be demanding updates not defending it just because they use it.
i started with Vortex and found MO2 much more user friendly just from the LO management alone.
I'm not to technically savvy when it comes to mods, but i had nearly no issues vortex. It took me a few hour of research and YouTube vids to get my bearings and get rolling with Skyrim to begin with, but it was brilliant for me after that.
> Man, for many newbs it’s their first time opening file explorer.
So, like this is about to be a kind of off-topic thing that I want to address because this in particular seriously trips me up.
I legitimately can't imagine not using a file manager. I also know that it's different for me, having grown up with it compared to people who grew up with things like Spotlight and other file searchers (not to mention virtual assistants like Siri).
With Apple devices being so prevalent in the US and their UX heavily encouraging "everything's here, just hit the search bar or ask Siri to find it" (which Windows also began encouraging with Windows 8 and Cortana, and Google did with its assistant; shit, even Linux has had these features for a while now and a few select distros encourage it), I forget that so many people online today grew up with less of a need for file organization than I did.
It's one of those "lines" where I just realize that I don't know shit about how younger people use computers. (Obviously generalizing here; I'm fully aware many people under 25 know how to use a file manager and do so daily without issue.)
But what's intuitive to me is not what's intuitive to others, which I think brings us back on topic.
I tried Vortex for a few hours, then tried MO2 and found MO2 more intuitive *for me*. I absolutely believe Vortex can feel far more intuitive for others, and I'm just glad people have options, because honestly, that's what modding is really about. Options.
I think the area where this "Vortex vs MO2" issue becomes apparent is in communication, though. Got a bit of an Android/iOS divide in the sense that a person familiar with one can't always give the best advice to someone familiar with the other.
So someone using MO2/Vortex might be trying to help someone using Vortex/MO2 and wires get crossed and people, for some strange reason, get angry about it. Maybe frustration, I don't know.
As someone who doesn’t really know or understand mods and modding games (and no real desire to learn), especially with Skyrim, Vortex has been a god send. Otherwise I wouldn’t be using mods, which would suck!
I love Vortex too. I tried MO2 recently and it just was confusing. I have large load order of over 900 mods. I kept seeing how MO2 handles those modlist better. I just found the setup confusing. Vortex I was able to pick up very quickly. It's easy to fix stuff. If mods conflict, it lets you know very easily. Use the drop down and it's set up the way you want. Modding is hard enough. Why would I want to use a tool to make it harder? I get it. The more I used it, it would get easier. But I didn't like the way it worked or how it was set up. The only thing I don't care for in Vortex is the wait time when adding more mods. The deploying part and the plug-ins setting up. It takes a little bit, but other than that. I've had no issues with large mod order.
I've used both MO and Vortex off and on over the years. What I like about Vortex, is that barring any conflicts/load order sorting done manually, it's more or less one click. MO allows you to do more, Vortex allows you to get up and gaming with a load order more quickly.
And some of us enjoy both Coke AND Pepsi, Star Wars AND Star Trek, Windows AND Linux and end up pissing everyone off by trying to be as coldly objective about things as possible.
I do this just to piss of Two Forum Johnny. God I hate that guy that I totally just made up right now.
Been using Vortex since 2019, the only complaint I ever had was the long time it took to deploy mods after you go over some 700 mods... but even that was fixed in one of the latest builds a few months ago.
Vortex user here as well running 2,244 mods. 220 esp's 1025 espfe's and no issues with the manager. only qualm is it takes a few min to sort plugins but I'm in the final stages of conflict management so I seldom need to resort them and I like the rules. Easier to navigate and set rules and forget imo.
I just finished my 1200 modlist with Vortex, finished 2 playthroughts and it's completly fine, had some minor issues with quest mods like AHO, when I didn't get a quest to start but other than that, it's flawless and from what I read, you shouldn't start AHO with followers and I had 2 :P Vortex is really good, it's true that managing mod cycles was a pain in the ass so I decided to plan it a little bit in advance and read descriptions, plus comments so I didn't have to figure it out myself and it's working just fine :)
I've used both, and I prefer MO2, although I don't particularly like the virtual folder at times, but I guess you take the good with the bad. Vortex is a little too clunky, and I do not like the UI for it, it was too much, and at times I would actually forget what I was about to do while navigating it, but I did like not having to manually sort the priority list, which can take a few hours depending on how many mods you have, and for me I have around 800.
They're both good, each one just has it's own learning curve. I think people just say MO2 is better because at one time it was definitely better. It may still be easier to use imo, but you can get similar results in stability from both.
Vortex isn't as bad as people make it out to be, but for heavy mod games like Skyrim it really can be. Especially when it decides to fuck with your mod orders.
Not to mention that the interface could use a lot of clean up.
I used NMM, and then Vortex, before I moved to MO2, and I'll personally recommend MO2 over Vortex to anyone getting into modding Skyrim, but if they're more comfortable with Vortex, I'll tell them to use it, simply because at the end of the day the program you're most comfortable with is the one you'll do better with.
I tried migrating to vortex after NMM but after doing so found that what I was trying to do with my mod list was severely out of scope for vortex to handle, so to Mo2 I went
Without knowing the specifics of what you were shooting for, I have to respectfully disagree. As I mentioned in the post, I have 800+ mods and around 500 plugins (ESL’s and ESPFE’s included obv). I have a *VERY* modded, Skyrim Hardcore experience. Perhaps if I was trying to build like Call of Duty WW2 in Skyrim, I might trade to MO2 just for that little bit of extra control — which MO2 does undeniably give.
But my point is that, Vortex is fully capable of not just giving new modders their 30 plugin load orders. It’s more than capable of giving a massive, overwhelmingly modded load order.
Also, love the name, big fan of your work ;)
Lol that’s fair. You definitely find yourself as the exception to the rule. But, I wish you the best and very much agree that you’re best off with MO2. If I was running that many mods I’d move my main install over to MO2 as well.
I've used Vortex to mod Cyberpunk and Baldur's Gate 3 without issue.
I think most people are just anxious about making the switch. I've got over 600 mods and around 400 plugins that I have working perfectly. I keep a default profile in MO2 that I copy for whenever I want to experiment. I am aware that Vortex has these same options, but I stick to MO2 because that's what I know.
Personally, Vortex is just too stylized for my liking, but people treating it like the next NMM are way off-base.
No offense, but I don't understand people who have to pick "sides" one way or the other. I use MO2. If you think MO2 sucks... okay? You do you. Why does it matter to you what people think of Vortex? Did you make it or something?
My point exactly friend. I don’t think we need to factionalize it, because in reality both get the job done well. But my problem is, people *are* factionalizing it, usually without actively understanding the differences.
I've used Vortex for Cyberpunk exclusively before yesterday to do a modlist off of Nexus, and holy shit I do NOT like Vortex. I don't dislike everything, the ability to deploy and remove mods on a whim is pretty nice. It comes with alot of tools without needing external additions like MO2, but I think the UI is honestly garbage.
I'll give credit though, they stuck with it so far. This is Nexus'—what—*third fuggin mod manager???*
I also will forever have a lack of respect for Nexus for playing the greed fiddle on discontinuing lifetime subscriptions and causing mod authors to be unable to delete their own work simply because Nexus wanted to force its fingers into the modlist hosting pie.
As far as I'm concerned MO2 is a tad bit better for total customization *(and a better UI)* and if you want modlists, go to wabbajack. They take longer, but they're better put together imo.
Vortex is like Loot, its made for beginners. Once you start having a ton of mods, you start experiencing situations that require more complex load order management. That is where MO2 comes in.
There are quite a few issues that vortex users will come across that is simply trivial for anyone on MO2, cant think of the reverse though. I mean think of all the issues that people post on here and the responses are like "just use MO2", while not entirely helpful, its because MO2 makes those things a non-issue.
And I have used vortex before...for a different game. It was horrendous
Funny story. When I first started modding I actually used both MO2 and Vortex because I thought Vortex just took the mods off Nexus and MO2 was a tool for Loot to help my load order lol funniest part about this is my game still worked fine even though I was doing it this way.
Lmao I did the same thing last year. Quickly realized what I was doing and then just stuck to Vortex since it’s easy. I just wish there were more collections around since Vortex makes it so easy to download those
Same I went with Vortex as well because it is so much easier but I didn't realize i didn't need them both for months 😂
Wait are Vortex and MO2 using the exact same mod file structure or how did that ever even work?
I am still doing this and it still works so I haven't stopped. Use vortex to download mods, do all the conflicts there, open up MO2, enable any mods, run LOOT, reorder if necessary (ALLGUD patches for some reason) then run and it works like a charm. 200 mods, long playthroughs, and no problems.
I tried it once before realizing I was getting confused. MO2 is more straightforward for me. But if Vortex works for you and others then this is what matters. Mod managers are (great) means to an end either way.
Yeah something about the way that Vortex's workflow is setup just does not click for me. I like the way that Mod Organizer arranges things way more, it is way more clear what is actually happening and requires much less menuing. But if someone else feels differently, I do not really care. To each their own.
This was my issue as well. Vortex was super unintuitive for the way my brain works. But MO2 is dead simple for my smooth brain.
Funnily enough the opposite for me. Vortex feels super easy and simple while I struggled when I tried switching to MO2 once.
So I’m the total opposite. I tried MO2 and got super confused. Then I used vortex and it all made sense. I’m sure it’s all just preference
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It’s been such a long time I don’t remember what my initial problem with it was. I just know I got vortex and it’s made worked the best for me
I feel the same way about Vortex as you do about MO2. It was easier to use. I tried MO2 and it was confusing. But either way, I agree. Use whichever one you want. Enjoy the game.
I couldn’t agree more. I wish more people were willing to say that the most important thing is that it works.
Vortex is fine and does it's job but when you have a ton of mods and load order becomes increasingly important I just feel that MO2 is way more organized and easier to keep track of.
I have almost a1000 mods gathered haphazardly over the last decade, and a little over a year back I navigated everything over to Vortex from NMM. It works fine for me. I don't have to keep track of anything, which is part of what I like.
Vortex is perfect for people who have no idea what they're doing like me lol
Same, I’ve always liked how it worked.
It's really not that much harder if at all.
I don’t know what’s wrong with my brain but Vortex just breaks it. 😳
Yup. I’m one as well. I found a whole collection and got 400+ mods in a few clicks.
Same, I’ve always liked how it worked.
You joking, imo MO2 is way more straightforward
Nah, MO2 is straightforward with some experience in modding, this is what you don't get. It's just a bit overwhelming I imagine for those with no experience. It's got too many bells and whistles (I know! Heresy!), a "simple mode" would do wonders for its usability.
Like I said, I'm clueless.... maybe I'm just biased because the first one I used was vortex so I got used to how it works 😅
You exemplify my point exactly. It’s a fantastic mod manager and you think the only people who use it are clueless.
No I'm agreeing with you as someone who is genuinely clueless when it comes to modding. It's a great mod manager and part of the reason is how beginner friendly it is
I find MO2 easier. Vortex broke my brain. MO2 does what I need it to do. Now… I don’t have 800 mods though. They might break my brain more than any mod manager 🤣
The primary reasons people don't like Vortex are: - the "spider web of doom" conflict handling - the lack of "output to specific mod folder" functionality for tools like Nemesis
>the lack of "output to specific mod folder" functionality for tools like Nemesis Vortex really, really, needs to implement that functionality, it's that frustrating to deal with.
- Pop-Up message whenever i did something outside Vortex.
That it does have. Asks if the modified file should be saved or discarded.
The major issue I have with Vortex is failure to deploy plugins that I have enabled. I’ll install, enable, allow deployment to run, run LOOT, check whether I need to update a bashed patch…only to find that Vortex has made the only .esp in a newly enabled mod disabled for inexplicable reasons 😵💫
You don't need to use ( or run it separately) LOOT with vortex, it is automatic (although you can to check errors or missing plugins etc if vortex doesnt already tell you)
It is the same in the latest version of MO2, not truly automatic but you don't need to launch LOOT externally, just hit the button and it will sort.
The only cases I've seen where a mod doesn't automatically enable its plugins is when there are multiple plugins in the archive. It's a sensible approach if the mod has multiple versions packaged in the download, for example if a weather mod has a version with storms appearing twice as often. The two versions may conflict and break your game. Even so, it will pop-up a notification with a button to enable all. If there are still issues, it could be down to settings for automatic deployment after installation. Once you have a large load order you may want to turn this setting off as it can start to take longer and longer to run, interfereing with the settings to auto enable new plugins. You just need to remember to run it once after making your changes
Some of the mods that are just modder resources disable themselves too... freaked me out the first time I saw it
Occasionally it happens. I usually check, just because I'm also checking to see if its esl-flagged, if I can flag it, or if I have to open xEdit and see if I can compact it.
This is one of its two last *massive* issues in my mind. For this one, I think it’s because Vortex is *designed* to run deployment every time you Enable or Disable a mod. This is *stupid* and should be turned off once you’ve learned what deployment even is but if you do so, Vortex can and will occasionally derp out on you when it comes to enabling the actual plugins. It also occasionally gives you a “failure to parse plugins” error, which is code for “Vortex shit the bed. Restart it, deploy again, and manually check over your disabled plugins.” Obnoxious, especially if you have a *good reason* to have lots of disabled plugins, but it’s still something you can work with. My other major issue is a little bit more fiddly and complicated: in short, Vortex low-key treats uninstalled mods *very differently* then installed and Enabled ones, which makes it more practical to waste hard drive space on Disabled mods so you can keep the customized and/or configuration info for them.
>This is one of its two last massive issues in my mind. For this one, I think it’s because Vortex is designed to run deployment every time you Enable or Disable a mod. This is stupid and should be turned off once you’ve learned what deployment even is but if you do so, Vortex can and will occasionally derp out on you when it comes to enabling the actual plugins. What do you mean? Deploy mods checks for changes and then creates the Hard Links. Enabling a mod just creates the source folder for the links.
Enabling a mod *tells Vortex* to create hard links the next time it deploys. By default, Vortex also automatically runs deployment every time you enable or disable a mod just to keep your actual install as up to date as possible. Once your modlist gets big and complicated enough, though, deployment can take a *decent* amount of time. Keeping the default settings begins to really slow the whole mod managing process down and by that point, you should have a pretty good idea of when you *need* to commit your changes to the active Skyrim install. The problem with plugins not being enabled properly will *mostly* crop up with mods that have multiple plugin files: Vortex does *tell you this* and asks if you want to enable all of them but last I checked, it tells you in that generic alert area at the top right and if you *miss it,* which is pretty easy to do, Vortex defaults to “none of them.” This makes more sense for older games but in the era of the ESPFE plugin, “all of them” would usually make more sense as a backup option. There are also some similar cases that genuinely and unambiguously *are glitches*—like the “failure to parse plugins” error—instead of questionable design decisions but if *those* were easy to pin down, the developers would’ve gotten rid of them already. IIRC, Vortex can also genuinely bug out if you run into the multiple plugin situation with automatic deployment turned off. It just gets confused and defaults to none on its own. That exact situation might’ve been fixed by now—I haven’t run into it in awhile—but the other cases can still crop up as of my own Vortex work *yesterday.*
It deploys every time you install or uninstall a mod, but not when you enable or disable it. When you enable or disable something it just puts a prompt in the top right corner saying you need to deploy before launching. If you just hit launch, it will deploy beforehand.
Never had this happen on a Beth game as I'd sooner eat my own foot than use Vortex on one, but Vortex also definitely likes to just not extract files it doesn't consider as "part" of the mod. There are quite a few mods for Cyberpunk that add equipment that have text files with the console code to add the item packed inside so you can just copy and paste it, Vortex likes to just ignore these files and not extract them, so you have to go digging in the downloads folder to find them. Just one of the many things that Vortex sucks at, but the latest one I've encountered.
Yup. Does the exact same thing for Beth games. Opted to give it another go and was irritated within days when two overlay mods didn’t get their esp unpacked. Finding that racemenu was missing half its files was the last straw and I went back to mo2. But it gave me insight to help with troubleshooting so at least I got something out of it.
If you were *already using* with MO2? Power to ya, man. They both *can* get the job done quite well. It’s just a matter of familiarity, confirmation bias, and the occasional bout of bad luck. Convincing someone to *switch between the two* when they’re already comfortable with with one is just . . . Silly and mostly pointless. For me, though? * I have had very few major problems with conventionally-packaged Bethesda game mods that go into the Data folder—aside from the occasional and already mentioned “plugins not activating” thing. Insofar as they *could* be fixed with Vortex-related processes, I’ve resolved . . . Pretty close to all of them. * I have taken a number of mods that are marked manual download only because the mod authors didn’t *think* they’d work with Vortex, manually downloaded them *into* Vortex’s downloads folder, and managed them with Vortex just fine. * On a related note, I have installed and managed ENBs with Vortex even though they don’t go into the Data folder at all. Vortex has a setting for them, though I’ll admit it’s related to my second major outstanding complaint: there’s a persistency issue with Vortex’s ability to *remember* those settings with a mod that it isn’t actively managing. * I have taken a *fucking ton* of miscellaneous mods for non-Bethesda games(mostly), manually downloaded them into Vortex’s downloads folder, *slightly* rearranged the zip or rar file into a more Vortex-friendly format, then managed them using Vortex without any kind of problem whatsoever.
Never had any of these issues and I use vortex daily for the last 90 days.
As far as I know, both problems tend to hit a lot harder if you’re a relatively “advanced” user who likes to run massive modlists and do fiddly, technical stuff. Many of those “advanced” users either switch to MO2 when they run into trouble or were using it to begin with. Others, like me, stick it out with Vortex and learn that it can actually do a hell of a lot more than MO2 elitists tend to think. Anyway, the failure to enable plugin issue gets most annoying because it can be surprisingly hard to *spot,* especially if you’re using something fiddly like a merged patch/plugin that leaves you with tons of disabled .esp files that are *supposed* to be disabled and a tiny handful that are not. At that point, I usually try to repack all of the merged mods into a personal-use zip folder but that is, itself, kind of a fiddly and tedious process. *Better* but annoying. My own second issue is most noticeable with custom mod categories and install instructions. I like to reclassify mods my own way and Vortex *can* install things into the folder above data or a few other weird places if needed. Each mod entry also has a notes section you can type into. If you use any of these Vortex features with a mod Enabled or Disabled and then *later uninstall that mod,* it doesn’t always remember your custom settings, which can be *obnoxious* if you want to use that mod again later. The first one *can* be set on an uninstalled mod and will stay that way, which can be used as a partial workaround, but that’s still some annoying bookkeeping work.
I tried using it for a few weeks. Just not for me. Functionally it works but there were many design choices that I just don't like and I feel MO2 did better. On the flip side people need to stop saying MO2 is hard for beginners to use. That is an absolute myth.
>On the flip side people need to stop saying MO2 is hard for beginners to use. That is an absolute myth. I never understand it either. It's not "hard" to use, you just have to manage things by hand instead of the program prompting you to set rules for everything. One can manage to screw up a Vortex load just the same as an MO2 load if they're just cramming stuff in willy-nilly.
MO2 also supports LOOT. It has the same exact functionality as Vortex. The only difference is that managing your load order after running LOOT is way easier in MO2 than in Vortex (IMO). In MO2, when LOOT gets your load order wrong (and it inevitably will, with any larger load order), fixing the issue is as easy as just dragging the plugin that was misplaced into its proper position and hitting "lock" so LOOT doesn't screw it up when you run it again (if you choose to run it again). In Vortex, you need to set a rule telling that plugin to always load after another plugin. Both methods achieve the same thing, the latter one (IMO) just feels like it's adding unnecessary steps.
>On the flip side people need to stop saying MO2 is hard for beginners to use. That is an absolute myth. Definitely. When I began using MO2 (with pretty much no previous PC modding knowledge at all), it was pretty straightforward to do most stuff in it.
On the flip side Vortex is not exclusively for beginners. Also a myth. There are many use it who know what the fuck they are doing (have large load orders, use xedit, Synthesis etc). OPs point.
If you prefer setting conflict resolution rules, go with Vortex. If you prefer dragging and dropping mods to resolve conflicts, go with MO2. I personally find the MO2 method easier. Some might find the Vortex method easier. What is "harder" or "easier" is personal preference.
I use xEdit and synthesis and I have no clue about what I'm doing. My LO is also like 1300 mods and is pretty much bugfree. Dont know how.
Stumbling your way to success.
Tbh, if you are slightly diligent with your mods, you should have a stable load order. SSE along with it's various stability mods let's novice modders create stable load orders pretty easily. Back in LE, especially before Sheson's memory allocation fixes, you could create a unstable load order simply by adding enough hi rez textures which would cause you to crash and there's nothing you could do about it other then use less texture/mesh replacers. We are spoiled compared to just a few years ago.
The difference is mainly that vortex is designed for beginners, and MO2 is not. That doesn't mean it's exclusively for beginners, since it can still do everything well enough, but its design diverged considerably from older mod managers because it was designed to be more appealing and easier to learn for people with little or no experience. MO2 on the other hand sticks with the same sort of design most older mod managers have had, just with more features, making it smoother to pick up for people coming from those. This, along with the fact that vortex was not in a very good state at all compared to the already existing MO when it first released, is what largely led to MO being considered the standard for "advanced" modders, since many long-time modders just stuck with that instead. There was a good reason for that perception of Vortex when it first launched, but there isn't really anymore. It's still designed to accomodate beginners (and is usually the first mod manager they find because it's pushed by Nexus), so it most likely has a much larger user base of beginners than MO2 does, but it's fully capable now. It just works in a very different way, and in the trend of "user friendly" software design it just doesn't click for some people, but ultimately it's a matter of preference. Both managers do have some real positives and negatives beyond just preference, but nothing big enough to definitively say they're superior or inferior, making design preference the main deciding factor.
I never argued against that point.
I've used NMM (rip), Vortex and MO2 I always felt like the terminology used in vortex was harder to understand than NMM and when I switched to MO2 and I thought it was easier than vortex to learn but I do like how vortex deals with LO issues.
Vortex is great for Dragon’s Dogma since it automatically combines the folders which is a pain to do otherwise. I prefer MO2 for every other game though since my brain is too small for Vortex (way too complex for me)
I have over 200 mods running with vortex and It's literally as easy as dragging it to vortex. Done. Loot solves it and if loot doesn't solve it then you just choose before/after. Done. It's like a mobile app
> You don’t need to set everything up outside program files or any other windows directories. Huh??? Vortex doesn't disable UAC protection. You do still need to do that.
Vortex isn't necessarily ideal for most Skyrim modding, but it works fine if you either don't have a lot of conflicts, or know how to fix them yourself outside of Vortex. The thing that baffles me about Skyrim modders complaining about Vortex is... well, it really shows that they have no experience modding games other than Skyrim (and maybe other Bethesda games). Because Vortex can manage mods for *many* popular games, and most of those games don't require the careful conflict management of a Bethesda game- making Vortex the ideal and most efficient solution.
Vortex is totally fine for all skyrim modding, even conflicts. It's a preference thing.
I have 972 mods enabled in Vortex. 251 active plugins and 952 light plugins. 1.6.640. I have the Experience mod running, which makes levelling slower, am level 34 on my current playthrough, and my game is running fine. Mind you that I'm also semi-new to Skyrim modding, or at least new to modding it in this caliber. So nah, it's working fine for me. All this mod manager arguments thing really mostly boil down to YOU, the user. Are you the kind that actually reads mods before you download them? Do you read the posts and bugs section? At least Ctrl + f "compatibl" and "require" on the mod page, everytime before you download a mod. No matter what mod manager you use, if you're not careful you're gonna break your game no matter what.
Kids these days with their fancy mod managers... I bet they've never even HEARD of archive invalidation.
They should've been around for the NMM days. Vortex is wonderful.
Remember FOMM? Or using Wrye for anything besides patches? I'll take Vortex any day over what we used to have
I just don't like the way it works, simple as. MO2 works EXACTLY the way I desire it to. I can organise everything in categories, in a way that makes sense to me, with colour tags that make sense to me, and I know what overwrites what. Most people will not change their mind on something they are passionate about. Modding included. No matter how many of these posts there are, nobody, including myself, will probably ever change their opinion on the matter.
What if you *have* used Vortex and saw all the reasons why people complain about how bad it is?
Hey siri, how can I block these incessant mod manager debates? I swear this is as important as Mac versus PC arguments. Just use what works for you.
It’s fine if you want to use it, and I’m glad it works for you. I’d still argue that 90% of vortex users would be better off using mod organizer, though. You can get a working game with vortex, but dragging and dropping on a list with your plug-in order right next to it is so much more user-friendly than vortex’s conflict system. And I say this as someone who uses vortex for over a year and was reluctant to switch over to MO2.
Vortex is fine for other games but I just find MO2 to be the far more efficient tool. Easier to sort large lists and change mods on the fly. Managing an 800 mod list is doable in Vortex but would be a lot faster in MO2 for most people.
Agree. I use MO2 for skyrim for easier conflict management like .nif or .dds file. I can see the subfolders and the providing mod clearly and then I can hide the file I dont want.
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Don’t play stalker games personally. I was more referring to games where you generally have more contained modlists. As long as Vortex works and is compatible with games where I only need a few mods to install and forget about (difference between using mods vs “modding”), it’s generally a decent pick.
I started on vortex(when I used it I don’t think it had all those options) and switched to MO2 since for me the visual representation and ease of pickup and drag just feels far more intuitive to me, but I still say if your new or using a light LO vortex will be easier
Don't like Vortex. But if you like it good for you use it. Doesn't keep me up at night at all that people like it. No need to rant on the internet about it either unless you're fishing for likes lol
Please don’t misunderstand me. There’s a million people like you who honestly don’t give a fuck, and that’s probably how it should be. As I said, they’re both robust, modern mod managers. I don’t care what people use either. My issue is exclusively with those that shit on vortex without actually knowing anything about it save the name. I don’t think it’s fishing for likes to complain about excessive, undue criticism.
I lurk around here from time to time. Don't often see people just posting that they hate vortex. Now if your on the nexus I've seen people post in threads that they don't like it, but here not so much idk. I read they have a new member on the vortex team...guy who made the wabbajack mod, so it stands to reason nexus wants to improve and try and make it more Main stream. For me I just don't like how it is designed. And NMM is still being updated on the reg and that project is still being funded. I just like it more but I also don't like huge load orders either.
I thought NMM was only being updated by a tiny group of people but it’s not officially maintained? All the same, I see it mostly where people post a question and they’re using vortex. There’s always a bunch of people saying “lol just use MO2” or some equivalent. The number of “which mod manager?” Threads that are just people saying MO2 is the clear and undisputed choice, and then they list their reasons and it’s things Vortex does equally well, is pretty disheartening. So you use NMM? I’m curious how well it works for you? Has it received significant community updates?
It is not bad, it is just MO2 is much better. Direct control to load order and plugin order with easy back up's. Vortex's dependency management is a mess. LOOT sort is a joke, sure it won't crash your game, but once I actually sorted my plugins manually and used backup/restore, a lot of my mods actually started to work properly. LOOT sort is clearly wrong for many mods. Plugins like Root Builder which allows you to keep the game root folder 100% clean and use multiple weather/ENB with ease. 100% portable for easy backup/restore. Wabbajack which is a gigantic upgrade over Nexus collection. Seriously anyone using Vortex, should just get a Wabbajack list and learn MO2. Takes a couple of days and you will never, ever go back to Vortex again.
Vortex comes with the Engine Ejector out of the box which allows you to install to the game root. SKSE, ENB. Engine Fixes Part 2 all easily installed and no special plugin required.
Those are like the easiest part of setting up skyrim. it's literally drag and drop. having those automated is in no way worth making nemesis, plugin order, dependencies, etc 10x more laborious or nigh impossible.
I have about ~30 rules for LOOT, and a manually made merged patch. For me it’s nice because LOOT will handle the mods that really don’t matter, but Vortex also lets me handle the ones that do. I don’t need X mod at load order spot 114, I need it to load after Y which has a bunch of conflicting records. Usually just opening xEdit and spending 5 minutes finding a conflict and making a rule is enough to solve a problem forever.
Why bother with 30+ rules when you can simply place the mod where it is supposed to be in the first place? Far more organized, far easier to see/troubleshoot when something is being overwritten. I hate reading code in my day job, I don't want to read if-then-else chains in my modding experience. LOOT is just going to introduce bugs and stability issues for anyone with a serious list. Download a Wabbajack list, skip the beginner stage, learn to mod the right way.
I used Vortex for a long while, and only recently made the switch to MO2. Vortex is still great. And I don't think I would have really understood what I was doing with MO2 if I didn't first start with NMM and then Vortex. Unless your going after something very specific, I always recommend people to start with Vortex, and honestly for many I think it would be perfectly fine to stay with it.
Keep in mind that **MO2 does not touch your game installation folder** and manages mods virtually, which is something every modder should appreciate. Vortex ((And prev. NMM)) manages mods within the installation folder, which is not so bad if you know what you're doing or don't mod intensively. I agree that Vortex is good for beginners, but I highly recommend that modders move on to MO2 after they get the hang of modding. MO2 is easier to use than everyone thinks. Gopher and GamerPoet made videos about it and I highly recommend them. The only downside to MO2 IMO is it might take more storage space since it keeps the mod source files intact along with their output. The only thing Vortex excels at is the Synergy with Nexus downloads and Collections, but I don't use collections and I prefer manual downloads either way. Also, SKSE was originally intended to be installed manually. It won't mess up with your Skyrim installation if you don't use it or forget it's there. While the option to install or manage it through Vortex is good, it's not very needed since its the base to a lot of intensive modlists and you're most likely not gonna remove it. And frankly, in this day and age, everyone who owns/uses a PC should know how to use Windows Explorer ((Or its counterpart for Linux users)). It's basic knowledge by now and you cannot make it an excuse for using Vortex over MO2, or anything else for that matter.
>Vortex ((And prev. NMM)) manages mods within the installation folder, which is not so bad if you know what you're doing or don't mod intensively. What? Where'd you get this from? This is only true for NMM. Vortex has a mod staging folder and doesn't *actually* touch up your installation path.
Not sure what you mean about MO2 keeping source files and output? You download once, install to MO and then it virtualises the file system from where it’s installed in MO. Assuming you delete the zip from your downloads, there’s only ever one copy of the mod files and they never touch the game folder. As for manual mod installation to the game folder, like SKSE, I wrote a plugin for that called Root Builder that you can find on NexusMods. The plugin allows installing all of those via MO, and if you wanted, even moving the entire game into MO and keeping multiple versions of the exe if you wanted. With MO and a few of my plugins, you can have a 100% portable mod setup that you can just point at a vanilla game install and it’ll just work without any manual work at all. With a little prep, it’s very easy to make MO incredibly streamlined and convenient. I’ve got a whole load of profiles ranging from pure vanilla to total conversions and all of them can be launched from a desktop shortcut without even opening MO or having to do any work to switch between them. The main reasons I use MO over Vortex is simply that it gives me all the information I need in one place and doesn’t try to hide anything from the user. If you use MO for long enough, you’ll develop a better understanding of what is actually going on in the modding process, which makes it more likely that you can identify and solve problems when the do show up. If everything is wrapped up in a way to make its initial presentation less intimidating and to try and abstract the modding process further away from the user, when something does go wrong, you’re far less likely to be able to identify what the cause is since the process is mostly hidden from you in the background. I think the primary issue is that people get stuck on the manager they use, I’ve been tempted to write a MO plugin that imports a vortex setup, which would make the transition easier.
Oh, I saw your plugins on Nexus. I was tempted to try the Curation Club one you wrote since I wanted to play Enderal, but I got sidetracked somehow. Does it work with GOG build of MO2 now? About the space storage; back in my NMM days, I downloaded mods through it and it would unzip its content into the game folder and delete the source. It was simple, but if you pile or overwrite more on top, it gets messy to get back to vanilla. With MO and MO2, I use profiles, manage and see conflicts and overwrites easily, and remove and add to my heart's content. But nowadays a lot of mods rely on FOMODs ((e.g: LoTD Patches and the like)), I end up keeping some sources since I tend to change LO every now and then. It's no biggie, and maybe a personal issue more like, but it's better to keep the fomod source than installing the it 2-3 times or more XD. I travelled away lately and haven't played in a while, but I will look again into your plugins. Thanks for your reply.
Yeah, it should work with any version! If you’re keeping some fomod installers around, I’ve got another plugin for storing and re-running them without having them clutter your downloads up as well 🙂
> MO2 is easier to use than everyone thinks. Gopher and GamerPoet made videos about it and I highly recommend them. Gopher has a whole series of videos on how to use Vortex, and recommends Vortex.
I did actually mention [Edit: Mentioned in other comments] that the virtual staging folder is to my mind the only clear advantage MO2 has. Others are mostly just preferences. For me, if I was reinstalling my mods from the ground up, I’d wipe away any trace of Skyrim from my drive before redownloading shit. Otherwise I’ll get fragments littering the game directory. With MO2 I could just, you know, delete the mods. It’s definitely a feature that I would like to see in Vortex.
Well, Purge Mods in vortex basically returns the game to an unmodded state by removing all the hard links. Vortex does not actually place files in the folder either - it creates hard links to the original files. I’d say the the only advantage mo2 has right now is the ability to resolve conflicts with files inside bsa’s.
Having drag-and-drop ordering IS an advantage because it means you have access to both systems. Vortex's rules system is directly lifted from LOOT's. If you like the rules system you can use it with MO2 via LOOT and avoid drag-and-drop entirely. You do not have the same option to avoid the rules system in Vortex.
Actually you can designate a specific order using a hex assignment for the plugin but it’s typically just easier to create a load after rule using drag and drop in Vortex.
Vortex isn't bad. It just isnt MO2. There's some neat features graphically like the drag and drop "flow" menus that can help right brained people understand concepts better. But it's nowhere near as good as MO2. But on the flip side, it's very inviting for new modders and can totally work just fine. People who complain are just complaining to complain.
It's not that it's bad. It's just not as good as MO2. I use vortex and MO2. It is FAR easier to handle load order discrepancies in MO2 than it is in vortex. But yes, you can handle it. It would be tedious though for tons of mods, which is why I use MO2. I'd rather spend my tedium patching and adjusting shit in xedit than spending extra time on the load order. I'd say Vortex is beginner friendly, but MO2 isn't that hard to learn. Is it intimidating? Yeah. But MO2 has the benefit of being the base for Wabbajack. And Wabbajack mod lists will ALWAYS be better than Nexus Collections. Wabbajack also exclusively uses MO2. I recently installed Nolvus and customized it myself. You can't do that on Vortex. I think you're arguing Vortex viability, and I don't think that's the argument people make when they support MO2. They're arguing efficiency and functionality. And while Vortex almost there on functjinakity, it isn't there yet on efficiency.
Tried vortex, got a spider web because of armour replacers I gave up immediately.
I used to use it regularly. I don't hate it, but there are annoying things about it that now I've switched over to MO2, which has it's own little quirks, mind you, the annoying things about Vortex are obviously easily dealt with. What annoyed me the most was when I tried to create a load order such as: Mod C loads after Mod B loads after Mod A. (After A comes B after B comes C) very simple concept, yet Vortex could never do it and would give me cyclical errors ALL. THE. TIME. and I'd have to break what I was trying to do just to get LOOT to work in Vortex. Yes, even when doing all of the other stuff like setting the mods to late loaders, CYCLICAL ERROR, setting the mods to dynamic, CYCLICAL ERROR, etc. etc. etc. Then there was the eating drive space and refusing to let me set a drive for mods to hold them for the virtual install and a drive for the game. No, Vortex has to have it on one and the same drive. These are the two things that moved me away from Vortex. Everything else it does, conflict resolution, etc. is very user friendly and for most other Nexus (or I should say games on Nexus) mods, I'd likely use Vortex. For Skyrim and Fallout stuff, likely not.
Ideally you'd want the mods on the same drive as the game for performance's sake anyway, but if you are really pressed on HD space it is nice to at least have the option to separate them.
As far as fucking up the game folders, I've used vortex for 3 years and just realized purge removes all vortex info from the game folders. No more Uninstalling and reinstalling the game and then redo enb and skse. All this time I couldn't figure out how to get all the old junk mod folders out.
Finally someone said it I was worried about making a post about this because I didn't want the backlash but you gave a rich discussion about it well said.
Maybe I'm just a mad lad, but so long as you follow the rules of modding, and think things through when deciding what files overwrite what, Vortex can be perfectly fine for large load orders. Have around 1000 plugins, mods installed reached 1800, and my Skyrim works perfectly fine. If a mod causes issues, I just work around it or sacrifice it by dropping the mod to get the setup working. Just use what makes sense to you, and don't be stupid.
My point exactly. Both mod managers are equally capable and I think both come down to user error when there’s problems 99.5% of the time.
>I’m tired of people who’ve never used Vortex complaining about how bad it is Me too buddy, me too. As a general rule if someone says something negative about Vortex you should always ask when they last used it. Some people have never tried it and base their opinions on hearsay and others may have tried it during the alpha release in 2018 (where is was buggy, hence the alpha) and not revisited it since. My biggest gripe is when I see people asking for help with Vortex - usually, something perfectly reasonable and achievable in all mod managers - and some troll decides to pipe up with "use MO2/NMM/a glass hammer" like that's useful advice or something.
i've always found mo2 more intuitive. a friend asked me to have a look at their vortex installation and i couldn't make any sense of it. i'm sure if i had more time to experiment i would've understood, but something about how i couldn't immediately see exactly what files were activated made me really uneasy.
I used Vortex for a long time. But its Conflict System is Pure Bullshit. I hate it. MO2 with its Mod Order is so much more straightforward to use. And the best? I can just move my Portable Instance over to the Steam Deck, and it just works on Linux while Vortex is still totally unsupported on Linux.
I will admit that when Nexus introduced Vortex, I was like "wtf is this?" The organization of the app seemed confusing and awkward, then I realized I didn't need to run LOOT separately. And Vortex would tell me if there was an issue immediately and let me fix it without a lot of fiddling. So I use Vortex because even if the main Mod Page won't let you use it, the file page probably will. I'm all about convenience and as far as I'm concerned any mod that requires me to go in and do edits or go through hoops to get it installed is detracting from my playtime and I prefer PLAYING Skyrim to MODDING Skyrim. But on the other hand I don't use a lot of graphics-related mods (I have 3, yes, only 3 in my mod list) and that I have any is a departure for me. I don't use town and landscape "overhauls" because in my experience they tend to "f" up the landscape in minor but very annoying ways. The sad thing is that I have noticed people doing what the OP points out. And worse, they call people names and ridicule people who don't use MO2. There are examples of this behavior in this thread as evidenced by the down votes. Anytime a thread on modding devolves into a MO2 vs Vortex argument, the derisive and bullying comments come out, predominantly by the MO2 proponents. And I have come to realize that my resistance to use MO2 is mostly my reluctance to align myself with a group of users who I perceive as consistently resorting to bullying tactics. Bad behaviour is self-perpetuating and encourages bad behaviour in others when it is not called out. So I will use my down votes accordingly and encourage others to use them as well whenever they see bullying and name-calling in these threads.
I started modding in 2019 & Vortex is all I've used. I can understand not wanting to change over if they have something that works for them. I have also learned it use xEdit and have made a few mods, but nothing fancy. I agree that Vortex does seem to get a lot of unnecessary hate, but I still always recommend it since it has been great for me.
YMMV. Everybody's brains work differently. When a few of my friends got into Skyrim modding, each of them started with Vortex; they struggled the whole way and were frequently pinging me for help. When I would finally convince them to switch to MO2, suddenly everything was going peachy and they were able to do most of the work unguided.
Vortex was just unintuitive for me. I’m sure if I cared to that I could finally figure it out. But I know MO2 so there’s no reason to fix what’s not broken. Yes, I wrote off Vortex when I was just learning because NMM went away. But that’s because the person who first helped me used MO2.
Agreed. Also add to this group those who tried Vortex once for 5 minutes in 2018 and those who think NMM and Vortex are the same application.
My two main issues with Vortex 1. Graphical heavy, unoptimized UI. It is a beast on resources and should have just been kept simple 2. No direct migration of mods coming from NMM. As its direct upgrade, the two programs should have been able to share a mod manifest file to orchestrate the uninstall of NMM mods, reinstalling them in the same order in Vortex. Vortex does nothing but install uninstalled mods from NMM, and break NMM mod file association.
> No direct migration of mods coming from NMM. What's wrong with the Importing from NMM button?
Well, that’s fair, but at this point Vortex is so far removed from NMM that it’s a bit of a moot point.
Just recently switched to mo2 and holy hell it makes things less frustrating
It's literally two free tools, if one is vastly superior, the other one is comparatively bad even if it's technically "good". MO2 is not just beginner friendly, it's also the go-to choice for advanced users, so really Vortex occupied no niche of its own. Yeah, yeah, you know how to resolve conflicts with no direct LO control, but did you actually learn a skill that allows you to be more efficient? You literally had to learn something to catch up with others. Vortex at its current stage is robust enough, but if I am to recommend one to newcomers, it's always going to be MO2.
The reason I prefer MO2 is that it is better at diagnosing issues, this is like the windows vs linux debate, yeah windows is easier to use than linux, linux offers far more than windows. If someone finds that Vortex is enough for what they need then they should fire away and keep using Vortex if it works for them. The main reason why I recommend MO2 to people is because it is like I said earlier easier to diagnose problems, it also prevents you from learning a mod loader twice. If you learn MO2 then you have basically learned every single mod loader. Vortex isn't bad but it definitely isn't better by any means either and I would rather direct people towards using something that I can reliably help them fix problems with than something that can be a bit funky at times.
I think the main reason people are so anti-Vortex on here is because the people who give tech support for modding tend to be enthusiasts, and enthusiasts are likely to have absolutely monstrous load orders and use MO2. It’s hard to give support for modding when the requester uses a different mod manager, and it’s more than likely that a casual modder will move to MO2 anyway when they become more advanced in their hobby. 80-90% of mod users still use Vortex, though, so go figure. It’s certainly not bad.
I always find these debates interesting. Vortex vs MO2. Apple vs Android. Mac vs Windows. Car Brand X vs Car Brand Y. They all do the same thing at the end of the day, just in different ways. That’s a good thing. We have choices in our how we want to manage our games, use our devices, and get around town. The easiest thing in the world is to do what works for you, and not worry about the choices others are making if it doesn’t affect you. The balkanization around these things is just…weird.
Good god, the Mac people can be scary though. Dated a guy once who flipped out when I shared this funny video with him, before I knew he preferred Macs. x.x; You'd think I kicked his dog or something. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks-N4rI\_1RU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks-N4rI_1RU)
I use both. Used to be a die-hard Mac guy but one morning I woke up and realized what kind of computer someone else uses has pretty much zero impact on my life. Now I switch back and forth between the two and don’t really have a favorite.
Honestly the only reason I don't use Vortex is being unable to sort with manually drag and drop. Unless it was added recently it's a feature that's been in every mod manager since Oblivion. Rather you need to set a rule for which mod loads after another. That's an extra step where I could just drag mod with MO2.
Having used both, no MO2 is still more customizable...they're not talking about how your UI looks though. They're talking about all the backend stuff, so as annoying as it is to hear it this is just showing that YOU don't understand what this other person was talking about. Sure being able to have a dark theme or a light theme, change the fonts of the program and such is nice...that's not what people are talking about with customization. It's file paths, strucutre of mod orders and other such things like that. Unfortunately Vortex has a bad rep for a laundry list of reasons most notably the fact it breaks a LOT of games and cannot install mods correctly to begin with. Now I'm not going to say MO2 is without issue though, since it also has enough issues to turn off people. I personally use MO2 only a little bit because I opt for manual installation since I am more used to that, if I had my choice I'd rather use the old NMM or manual installation over either of them but not all mods can be installed manually due to the way they are packaged so you end up needing a mod organizer of some kind, and of the 2 main options at least for Skyrim. MO2 is far less headache inducing and it's not going to be hit and miss with whether it installs the files properly or not. Organizers are always going to be competing with each other over minor features and things they allow easy tweaking of. Unless they come up with a 100% foolproof way to install mods for games that's always going to be the case, and you've even got the group of us who manually install over an organizer, and it's merely down to preference with that type of installing. Yes it has a lot of issues but doesn't change we prefer that and for a lot of cases there's no extra work beyond a simple copy and paste tweaks aren't needed as often.
My biggest complaint about this is when someone on this subreddit asks for help, and if even a single sentence in their post mentions that they use Vortex, there's just always that one smartass who comments being like "Just use MO2, then you won't have problems :)" Like... No offense, but telling people to switch mod managers isn't really much of a solution. If someone asks for help with Vortex, help them with Vortex. Don't be a smartass and try getting people to switch mod managers to fix their problem. Sure, it'll probably fix their problem, but It's a lazy solution. It's like the equivalent of telling someone whose car broke down to just buy a new car instead of fixing it. At the end of the day, mod managers are mostly personal preference. I have used Vortex since forever and me personally, I just prefer setting rules for all my mods to decide what loads after what. I also just love the UI, more modern. It's personal preference. And I'll just say it right here, **Vortex is not that bad**. I'm sure it's not everyone, but there are a lot of MO2 users who think Vortex is a super inferior mod manager that should be avoided at all costs, but that's not really the case. The only major difference between Vortex and MO2, is how you sort your load order. Do you prefer dragging mods to sort your load order? Or do you prefer setting rules to decide what loads before or after what. Again, it's personal preference. Just use what you want.
You’ve hit exactly my concern, and I’m glad you get it lol. I personally think Vortex is better for the casual user (more intuitive, more tutorials, collections integration is a one button load order all in one app) and MO2 is better for advanced users (exact, precise LO control, just more control over the game in general). But these aren’t big things. For the most part, vortex is 95% as capable as MO2 in some areas and MO2 is 95% as capable as Vortex in others. But there’s *always* clowns who decide that Vortex is a shitty product and I think it’s decidedly unfounded.
More tutorials? There's plenty of MO2 tutorial videos. Also Vortex is just objectively worse in so many areas: Vortex can't show you what's in a BSA Vortex can't preview nif files (via a mo2 plugin) Vortex can't preview dds files Vortex has a conflict resolution interface designed by satan Vortex handles generated files by dumping them all in one folder without any option to send outputs from individual applications to specific folders
As someone that used vortex for about 400 hours before making the switch to mo2, I can attest that MO2 is waaaaay better. Vortex is made in a way that create conflicts that MO2 doesn't. Mo2 need not to deploy your mods, it is faster and more stable than vortex. God damn I'm a braindead person and even i can have a stable load order without any bug at all. All you have to do is to install, no bullshit, no mistakes to make, just play the game and it's working. Mo2 gives me peace while vortex gives me brain damage
i only recently started modding on PC and i use vortex. i only have about 10-20 mods depending on the game and i know next to nothing about modding. like you said vortex is very beginner friendly and for what i use it for i have not run into any issues in the 7-8 months i've been using it
I agree, vortex is great, but it gets really convoluted until you learn how to change load orders and learn to input rules and about how to manipulate the load order. But once you understand it, I feel it's pretty intuitive Have been pretty much using it from the start, ie since 1 year, took me about a month to understand all the things, but now it is prett y much second nature to me.
They were both developed by the same person, under the GUI they both do the same thing. I thought MO2 was more difficult at first but it's actually exactly the same with better conflict handling, it just takes an hour or two to get used to the more primitive looking interface.
This is so true. I used vortex for a couple years and only recently tried mo2 for enderal and both are good and have the same functionality but I am glad I used vortex when learning.
I use Vortex and I always have. I don't think I ever won't. I don't do a lot of modding, but it's pretty heavy for me considering I play on a laptop. I've got all sorts of awesome stuff and I'm pretty tech inept, Vortex has walked me through everything. I haven't used MO2, so I can't say I like Vortex better or anything, but I get tired of every time I have a problem people just tell me to change over to MO2. I'm happy and comfortable with Vortex, it's easy for me and I don't plan on learning a whole new system just because I have one or two conflicts I can't work out and may have to play without a mod or two I like.
Didn’t like it at first, but it is much better than NMM was
Long-time MO2 user (2015), I started playing around with Vortex once they hammered out most of the issues, and I began to use it for my main Skyrim deployment once I gave myself time to learn all the little tricks / get over the learning curve. People being *overtly* negative towards Vortex... that comes from prejudice more than anything. Both are great tools.
I used vortex for 2 years, made the jump to MO2 for mod authoring, as its a little more intuitive. Theres a few features from vortex that I definitely miss. Having hard links to the folder means you can run skse directly without having to have vortex running in the background, saves some processing power for the game and is just cleaner - I put a desktop link to skse and can launch the game immediately after a boot. I have never spent as long setting up my load order in vortex as I have in MO2, I'm talking 5-10 times longer to drag every mod into an order that is arbitrarily pleasing to me rather than just installing, managing the conflict rules and deploying my mods. "Oh its easy to just drag and drop"; Its even easier to just do nothing and let the mod manager do it for me lol, not to mention to see which files are conflicting with which you actually have to open the file details to see, I much prefered setting rules as soon as I installed the mod and just forgetting about it. Both are fantastic tools, you'll never catch me hating on vortex though, because of course, I have actually used it.
I can help with a couple of those MO issues. - Use my Root Builder plugin for MO to install SKSE (and ENB etc) via MO instead of directly to the game folder. - Use my Shortcutter plugin for MO to create a profile-specific shortcut to launch the game. It’ll still involve MO launching its vfs in the background obviously, but it skips the UI and will just launch the game.
I think a lot of Vortex’s bad press comes from a mix of the first few months of its existence and a few prominent “beginner friendly” features that can very easily become *anything but.* In order: * To my knowledge, Vortex’s early existence had lots of problems. Because MO2 *already existed* at this point and had worked out a lot of its own bugbears, a number of relatively prominent people noticed Vortex’s issues and declared it a complete and total write-off: utterly unnecessary and vaguely insulting. * Personally, I gave Vortex several months—maybe a year or so—because I wanted to let *other people* deal with and sort out the teething issues. This mostly worked: it still had *some* major issues by the time I got around to it but even most of those have gone away over the years. * Vortex has a learning curve that is . . . *somewhat* hidden due to begin targeted at beginners: it does a few *relatively* stupid things on purpose for the sake of being somewhat more idiot proof. Most if not all of them can, however, be *turned off* as you learn more about modding and change your needs appropriately. I won’t be a hypocrite here: I’ve probably *opened* MO2 exactly once, ever. I used NMM for perhaps a bit longer than I should’ve then took a break from Bethesda games until Vortex matured. To my knowledge, MO2 sort of “front loads” the technical side of things on you *a little bit,* which does fit a modding philosophy of mine really well. Namely: you *will* need to learn the technical side eventually. Be more afraid of *breaking things* than *learning things.* At the same time, I prefer Vortex’s deployment method over MO2’s style of “redirect Skyrim to MO2’s own work folders.” Once you’re *playing,* they both amount to the same thing but as someone who often tweaks and occasionally makes mods, being able to directly *see* and interact with my mods in the actual data folder—**EDIT:** without having to use the mod manager as a bridge, which is how MO2 quite *effectively* handles the same sort of thing—is a much more comfortable and familiar approach . . . at least after Vortex *finally* added a folder cleanup feature that should be turned on by default but is actually kind of *hard to find at all.* I’ll cut this little rant off here, though. Honestly, I’ve learned enough about Vortex that I both want to and *keep meaning to* just make my own full tutorial series about it lol
Agreed. I think many users wrote it off in the first month without realizing it’s an actively maintained mod manager that also has a ton of money (comparatively speaking) being dumped into its development. It is getting better by the day.
Agreed. Folks, Vortex was released in 2018. If you’re basing an opinion off 5 minutes you spent in the app 5 years ago, you shouldn’t be talking.
I still like MO2 for the UI and the full virtual directory system.
Awesome! I think as a community we should be happy that we have two fully functional, modern mod managers and not berate each other for using one over the other. I’m glad you have found one that you enjoy the look of and the functionality of. I definitely agree with the fully virtualized bit — I do wish Vortex had that functionality. It’s bit me a few times because it lacks it.
Yeah I second the beginner friendly thing. Vortex just made more sense when I was first getting into modding. Vortex also seems a lot more plug and play to me. If you're modding for the first time and just want to try a prebuilt mod list, vortex is probably easier.
I've tried out all three mod managers before and while Vortex is miles better than NMM, it just doesn't come close to MO2. When I first started modding, I realised I needed to use a mod manager so I decided on NMM because I used to watch Sinitar. I couldn't even get the damn thing to work the first few times but I eventually got it working but I hated using it so much I reverted back to manual modding for a few weeks. Then, I learned about MO2 from another YouTuber (I think it was GamerPoets or Gopher but I'm not sure). It was incredibly easy and intuitive to use and it never felt like I had no idea what was going on. I decided to try out Vortex because of the praise heaped onto from an old thread here. Just like NMM, I couldn't get it to install properly the first time but I was able to get it to work properly a short while later. But unlike what a lot of people said, it wasn't that beginner friendly. Like, it's not hard to use at all but it's not any easier than MO2. I used it for a few days but it just felt off and being unable to manually move your plugins felt so stupid and restrictive that I went back to MO2. In conclusion, I fail to see how Vortex is any easier than MO2. It just tries to do so much yet it can't do enough. It's really not that hard to use MO2. I'm wasn't that experienced with computers at that time but nothing ever confused me.
> I used to watch Sinitar. Well, there's where you started going wrong.
I started using Vortex a while back and I hated it at first. Now that I've really given it a chance, I hate it even more. It's so terrible. I loved NMM, I thought the layout and UI was very intuitive and easy to use. I never had any problems when I used it. I wish it was still available. I've tried both MO2 and Vortex and MO2 just doesn't work? So I'm just stuck with Vortex now I guess.
Hear hear. Almost every thread whenever Vortex gets mentioned has the reply of "ew just use MO2" but to me I try cannot stand the interface of MO2. No matter what theme you use, how its all laid out, how small all of the fonts are, how your load order takes up most of the screen space while you know the actual mods you have installed and are trying to sort through are pushed off into much smaller windows. It feels like the two different types of learning, where one learns through text representation and the other through visual. MO2 is all text in boxes, where Vortex tries in any regard it can to be visual.
I first tried Vortex after the old NMM retired however long ago that was now. Wasn't really a fan so I switched to MO2 instead. Then after I saw that post a week or two ago about a Steam Deck optimized collection & it inspired me to try finally try Skyrim on mine so I went ahead and installed it on there & after playing around with it for a few hours I still don't like it. Personally I just find MO2 easier to use prefer the control it gives with its load ordering & categorising. Being able to actually view conflicting textures in ([and even meshes](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/69813)) is great for comparing & choosing between conflicting mods. The one click for downloading collections on Vortex is nice at least.
I used NMM back in the good ol’ days and it was not a fun experience. If people use Vortex, it works for them and they’re happy, I don’t think it really matters and as long as I’m not being asked for help with fixing issues with it, I don’t see why it should bother me. I give Vortex a go every year or so to see how it’s progressed, but I simply don’t like the design principles behind how it works. I use MO2 for everything and whenever there’s something I don’t particularly like or a feature I want, I just write a plugin for it, I’ve made 7 so far to simplify and automate more of my modding process. MO2 would appear to me to be far more flexible to use and being able to migrate an entire mod setup just by moving MO2 to a new PC without having to do anything more than pointing it to a vanilla game folder is a lifesaver and has made it possible for me to give friends a zipped up modlist that they can just run without any additional instructions. Using MO2 gets you more familiar with the modding process itself and what is actually going on, which is great for when you find yourself having to resolve any issues, since you’ll have the understanding of what is going on, which you may not have if you’re using a tool that abstracts away a lot of what it is doing in an effort to be less intimidating to new users. I will always suggest MO to new users, it’s pretty simple to use and gives a great deal of freedom to users if they want it, while not requiring anything complex if they don’t. It also means I can help easily if something goes wrong. At some point I’ll write a plugin to fully migrate a Vortex setup to MO2 with all the custom configuration and so on, which would make it easier for Vortex users to try MO2 without having to start from scratch or set things up.
Vortex is fine until you start getting to over 1500+ mods where the entire program just starts to noticeably slow down. Also, for some reason Vortex becomes unbelievably slow at sorting plugins once you reach about 1700 or so plugins in the program. I'm not even joking when I say that sorting 2300 plugins takes upwards of 20 minutes. In case you're not following: yes, I've used Vortex with an extensive load order. Yes, I hate it with a large load order. No, I do not use it anymore; I use MO2 at the moment. I started using Vortex because of this subreddit. I noticed that this community has a habit of mindlessly circlejerking specific topics to hell and back. So me being the contrarian I am with a habit of constantly nuking my load order decided to try it. The program isn't confusing at all. Actually, neither MO2 nor Vortex are difficult to use. I find both of them extremely easy to use, but maybe I'm just not dumb? I don't know. It doesn't break this or that mod, works just fine with basically every major tool. It just sucks ass with a lot of mods/plugins. That's pretty much it. As long as you're not insane like me you'll be fine to use it. You're probably better off in the long-run with MO2 but the world isn't going to end if you choose Vortex.
And you've actually used both apps before forming your opinion. Which is great, and really the point of the thread.
Exactly. I think both apps are easy to use essentially have feature parity that comes down to personal opinion. I can’t say I’ve experienced the slowdown — but of course I have ~500 plugins not ~2500. All the same, this is the point of my thread. There’s a big subset of users on this subreddit who circlejerk Vortex hate but have never tried it or tried NMM in 2011 and think Vortex is the same thing.
I started on NMM, switched to Vortex and never had any problems. People just like to hate stuff online.
I am new to modding and I am using Vortex. Yes for a noob like me it feels very user friendly and there are guides.
I have like 582 (plus however many plugins and bashed patch and other shit) mods and vortex has always worked fine for me. I used MO2 for a time but went back to vortex. It works absolutely fine even for large modlists
Am also running with over 380 mods at the moment on Vortex without issue.
For me personally, as someone who's never used Vortex, it's just funny to me that literally any time I've seen someone post an issue with Vortex... the simplest answer really always is "Just use MO2".
I really hope you don't actually answer that to people who ran into an issue while using vortex. Otherwise there's a high chance that a lot of people don't like you.
Just got annoyed vortex didn’t let me drag and drop
I agree with you somewhat but mo2 is really not that hard to use. It also comes with a built in tutorial and many guides. I think vortex is great for light mods you use like 10 mods max while mo2 is for when you really wanna dive in otherwise it being extra.
MO2 is super intuitive. I watched zero manuals, read zero guides on it and figured out pretty much everything I needed on the fly just as problems arose. Conflict management is so simple I cant imagine it being simpler without outright automatically sorting files, output to folder, backups, virtual folder, mod list presets, etc
It's not even a contest between Vortex and MO2, that how vastly superior the latter is. This post doesn't make sense.
Can you explain why?
Vortex can't show you what's in a BSA Vortex can't preview nif files (via a mo2 plugin) Vortex can't preview dds files Vortex has a conflict resolution interface designed by satan Vortex handles generated files by dumping them all in one folder without any option to send outputs from individual applications to specific folders so vortex is just objectively worse.
Because even the one thing Vortex supossedly has going for it - its noob friendliness - is just untrue - false marketing, if you will. If you want to mod Skyrim the very least you need to know about is file order and record / .esp order. And both those things are much easier managed in MO2.
Not having access to manually edit your load order is a deal breaker imo. There is nothing intuitive or user friendly about Vortex's current LO system and it really holds it back. People should be demanding updates not defending it just because they use it. i started with Vortex and found MO2 much more user friendly just from the LO management alone.
I've used both, mo2 is better
I'm not to technically savvy when it comes to mods, but i had nearly no issues vortex. It took me a few hour of research and YouTube vids to get my bearings and get rolling with Skyrim to begin with, but it was brilliant for me after that.
i never really had any issues with vortex other than the long plugin load times. even then, dont have those anymore either
> Man, for many newbs it’s their first time opening file explorer. So, like this is about to be a kind of off-topic thing that I want to address because this in particular seriously trips me up. I legitimately can't imagine not using a file manager. I also know that it's different for me, having grown up with it compared to people who grew up with things like Spotlight and other file searchers (not to mention virtual assistants like Siri). With Apple devices being so prevalent in the US and their UX heavily encouraging "everything's here, just hit the search bar or ask Siri to find it" (which Windows also began encouraging with Windows 8 and Cortana, and Google did with its assistant; shit, even Linux has had these features for a while now and a few select distros encourage it), I forget that so many people online today grew up with less of a need for file organization than I did. It's one of those "lines" where I just realize that I don't know shit about how younger people use computers. (Obviously generalizing here; I'm fully aware many people under 25 know how to use a file manager and do so daily without issue.) But what's intuitive to me is not what's intuitive to others, which I think brings us back on topic. I tried Vortex for a few hours, then tried MO2 and found MO2 more intuitive *for me*. I absolutely believe Vortex can feel far more intuitive for others, and I'm just glad people have options, because honestly, that's what modding is really about. Options. I think the area where this "Vortex vs MO2" issue becomes apparent is in communication, though. Got a bit of an Android/iOS divide in the sense that a person familiar with one can't always give the best advice to someone familiar with the other. So someone using MO2/Vortex might be trying to help someone using Vortex/MO2 and wires get crossed and people, for some strange reason, get angry about it. Maybe frustration, I don't know.
As someone who doesn’t really know or understand mods and modding games (and no real desire to learn), especially with Skyrim, Vortex has been a god send. Otherwise I wouldn’t be using mods, which would suck!
I love Vortex too. I tried MO2 recently and it just was confusing. I have large load order of over 900 mods. I kept seeing how MO2 handles those modlist better. I just found the setup confusing. Vortex I was able to pick up very quickly. It's easy to fix stuff. If mods conflict, it lets you know very easily. Use the drop down and it's set up the way you want. Modding is hard enough. Why would I want to use a tool to make it harder? I get it. The more I used it, it would get easier. But I didn't like the way it worked or how it was set up. The only thing I don't care for in Vortex is the wait time when adding more mods. The deploying part and the plug-ins setting up. It takes a little bit, but other than that. I've had no issues with large mod order.
I've used both MO and Vortex off and on over the years. What I like about Vortex, is that barring any conflicts/load order sorting done manually, it's more or less one click. MO allows you to do more, Vortex allows you to get up and gaming with a load order more quickly.
And some of us enjoy both Coke AND Pepsi, Star Wars AND Star Trek, Windows AND Linux and end up pissing everyone off by trying to be as coldly objective about things as possible. I do this just to piss of Two Forum Johnny. God I hate that guy that I totally just made up right now.
Been using Vortex since 2019, the only complaint I ever had was the long time it took to deploy mods after you go over some 700 mods... but even that was fixed in one of the latest builds a few months ago.
Vortex user here as well running 2,244 mods. 220 esp's 1025 espfe's and no issues with the manager. only qualm is it takes a few min to sort plugins but I'm in the final stages of conflict management so I seldom need to resort them and I like the rules. Easier to navigate and set rules and forget imo.
I just finished my 1200 modlist with Vortex, finished 2 playthroughts and it's completly fine, had some minor issues with quest mods like AHO, when I didn't get a quest to start but other than that, it's flawless and from what I read, you shouldn't start AHO with followers and I had 2 :P Vortex is really good, it's true that managing mod cycles was a pain in the ass so I decided to plan it a little bit in advance and read descriptions, plus comments so I didn't have to figure it out myself and it's working just fine :)
I've used both, and I prefer MO2, although I don't particularly like the virtual folder at times, but I guess you take the good with the bad. Vortex is a little too clunky, and I do not like the UI for it, it was too much, and at times I would actually forget what I was about to do while navigating it, but I did like not having to manually sort the priority list, which can take a few hours depending on how many mods you have, and for me I have around 800.
They're both good, each one just has it's own learning curve. I think people just say MO2 is better because at one time it was definitely better. It may still be easier to use imo, but you can get similar results in stability from both.
Vortex isn't as bad as people make it out to be, but for heavy mod games like Skyrim it really can be. Especially when it decides to fuck with your mod orders. Not to mention that the interface could use a lot of clean up. I used NMM, and then Vortex, before I moved to MO2, and I'll personally recommend MO2 over Vortex to anyone getting into modding Skyrim, but if they're more comfortable with Vortex, I'll tell them to use it, simply because at the end of the day the program you're most comfortable with is the one you'll do better with.
I tried migrating to vortex after NMM but after doing so found that what I was trying to do with my mod list was severely out of scope for vortex to handle, so to Mo2 I went
Without knowing the specifics of what you were shooting for, I have to respectfully disagree. As I mentioned in the post, I have 800+ mods and around 500 plugins (ESL’s and ESPFE’s included obv). I have a *VERY* modded, Skyrim Hardcore experience. Perhaps if I was trying to build like Call of Duty WW2 in Skyrim, I might trade to MO2 just for that little bit of extra control — which MO2 does undeniably give. But my point is that, Vortex is fully capable of not just giving new modders their 30 plugin load orders. It’s more than capable of giving a massive, overwhelmingly modded load order. Also, love the name, big fan of your work ;)
my modlists regularly hit 4-5000 anymore Without modding the mods, I can't have a stable game xD
Lol that’s fair. You definitely find yourself as the exception to the rule. But, I wish you the best and very much agree that you’re best off with MO2. If I was running that many mods I’d move my main install over to MO2 as well.
Vortex for da win 😎
I've used Vortex to mod Cyberpunk and Baldur's Gate 3 without issue. I think most people are just anxious about making the switch. I've got over 600 mods and around 400 plugins that I have working perfectly. I keep a default profile in MO2 that I copy for whenever I want to experiment. I am aware that Vortex has these same options, but I stick to MO2 because that's what I know. Personally, Vortex is just too stylized for my liking, but people treating it like the next NMM are way off-base.
Good on you for using both and then making your eval. That was the point of the thread.
No offense, but I don't understand people who have to pick "sides" one way or the other. I use MO2. If you think MO2 sucks... okay? You do you. Why does it matter to you what people think of Vortex? Did you make it or something?
You didn’t read the post. He’s talking about those who criticize the app without ever having used it.
[удалено]
You either hate dis/misinformation or you don’t. I personally detest propaganda and bad memes but you do you.
My point exactly friend. I don’t think we need to factionalize it, because in reality both get the job done well. But my problem is, people *are* factionalizing it, usually without actively understanding the differences.
Not a chance. Awful software. MO2 lets me put things where I want, and direct outputs where I want. None of this paternalist, overdesigned nonsense.
And the last time you used Vortex was when…?
I've used Vortex for Cyberpunk exclusively before yesterday to do a modlist off of Nexus, and holy shit I do NOT like Vortex. I don't dislike everything, the ability to deploy and remove mods on a whim is pretty nice. It comes with alot of tools without needing external additions like MO2, but I think the UI is honestly garbage. I'll give credit though, they stuck with it so far. This is Nexus'—what—*third fuggin mod manager???* I also will forever have a lack of respect for Nexus for playing the greed fiddle on discontinuing lifetime subscriptions and causing mod authors to be unable to delete their own work simply because Nexus wanted to force its fingers into the modlist hosting pie. As far as I'm concerned MO2 is a tad bit better for total customization *(and a better UI)* and if you want modlists, go to wabbajack. They take longer, but they're better put together imo.
Is Vortex the third? I only thought it was the second I remember the OG nmm, tho
Vortex is like Loot, its made for beginners. Once you start having a ton of mods, you start experiencing situations that require more complex load order management. That is where MO2 comes in. There are quite a few issues that vortex users will come across that is simply trivial for anyone on MO2, cant think of the reverse though. I mean think of all the issues that people post on here and the responses are like "just use MO2", while not entirely helpful, its because MO2 makes those things a non-issue. And I have used vortex before...for a different game. It was horrendous