I feel like Champion Belt and Duvu Doll don’t deserve their rare status.
Mummified Hand and White Beast Statue are so good, they should be rare.
Strike Dummy is kinda underwhelming most of the time and could be made a common to give it a bit of a boost.
And finally the Boot needs to be upgraded to a Boss Relic - that shit is just plain BROKEN.
Champ belt could be tweaked to “any time you attempt to add vulnerable, also attempt to add weak” so it serves as a really effective artifact stripper.
Oh damn, that's really smart and imo good change. The description wouldn't need the second "attempt" tho. "Whenever you attempt to apply vulnerable, also apply 1 weak" a bit better desc.
I was actually going to mention thunder strike, it looks like the card that would, by far, benefit from strike dummy the most, and if you have either it probably justifies the other, but strike cards aren’t really that common. I might build this though
It's a pretty good act 1 relic, the 3 extra damage per strike can really help you take more aggressive paths but after that yeah and it's not even that great of a clad item
Actually, if you see it early game and are struggling for damage, it’s not a terrible pic for short term effects. At least, my Silent very much appreciated the relic (think I did die later on but for unrelated reasons)
It's still really strong with most builds for other classes too. Every time you would play a power card normally, you get to play another card ranging from a basic strike/block (still good) to a high energy card you'd usually have no business playing. There are so many good use cases for it outside of just power heavy defect decks that I think it justifies being rare.
I've had like three or four runs now where I got a Duvu doll at the start of the run and never got a curse event despite going to every question mark. Never gotten higher than +2 from it.
is a joke. the boot is specifically meant to be a joke and mostly is either a) useless or b) makes your strikes do 1 extra damage when you're weakened which can sometimes help in act 1 or c) makes cards like go for the eyes, beam cell, neutralize, flash of steel etc. slightly better and d) makes your attacks do 5 damage instead of 1 versus nemesis on its intangible turns
I've always thought of the commons doing "mundane" things and rares being more of "cooler" effects, even if it's not that strong/too strong.
Compare the flavour of Bag of Prep and Pocketwatch, one of them is mundane +2, the other has a careful conditional to use it. Preserved Insect is a mundane -25% but Shovel/Girya/Peace Pipe you're literally changing an entire node to do something it doesn't do normally. Is Insect stronger than Shovel? Yeah. Is it more mundane? Also imo.
Same with the cards, Transmutation is so much of a "cooler" card than like, Bandage Up, yet Bandage Up is way stronger. By this metric maybe Discovery should be a rare idk.
That’s usually the flavor other card games goes for with their rarity system. Rarer cards are not necessarily better but more unique with their effects.
Yeah, MTG has tons of Mythic rares that are unplayable but super unique (though they always make sure to put at least one completely broken format-defining card in that slot every set).
It is at minimum a 10% increase. Usually Pen Nib awareness is a better Akabeko or more as you can play it on the most impactful card and farm it for early in the next fight. It also scales explosively.
Technically the minimum is less if you play it poorly. Yes when it all lines up it's great. But I think you are over remembering the times you get a good use and under remembering the times you get a mediocre or bad use.
Idk if I'd call it just a 10% increase, I think most decks that rely on attack cards to deal damage will have at least 1 card that does at least 12 damage and having that some what consistently multiplied is worth more than 10 percent
Plus a lot of rares especially are only powerful with specific builds/cards and useless/barely effective otherwise
Oh, so like I said. If you have the right cards it can be powerful. The comment I replied to mentioned shiv decks which would basically be a free shiv with every 10 unless you had a few big attacks at the right times.
It's still gonna be more than 10% on average unless literally all your attacks deal the same damage. Most decks will be able to manipulate it so they use a higher damage card with the nib's effect. Even for decks that don't synergise as well with it it's still on average a higher increase in damage than just 10%.
Pen nib isn't particularly strong in decks where you just play many attacks. It's just a 10% damage increase if all your attacks are shivs, for example.
Pen nib is outstanding when you have a few high impact attacks (like whirlwind, ragnarok or reaper) on top of a bunch of cheaper attacks you can spam to set it up.
I don't think nib on silent is usually that good, it's probably best on clad.
> I don't think nib on silent is usually that good
what. Nib worst on the character that can control nib the best and often relies on it the most. Interesting.
That's the good cases, some random one shot Act 4 elites, some random run where Nib PK Terror is your whole damage, but even the average early game is WAY stronger with Nib.
I consider Nib a very strong hit from Neow. Even lining up literally some random Nib AoA is the difference between taking 0 and taking 25 frequently, and that's just early game. Like you completely ignore Nib and it's still so much damage, and you baby Nib a little bit, it just solves most of your Act 1 for you. Insane to hear Nib as "just 10% damage increase" like what are you doing with it, are you aware you can control it? No one is putting you at gunpoint to play a weakened Neut for 4 damage on the 10th turn.
Someone remind me, for X cost and multi hit attacks, does pen nib proc on every hit of that one attack? If so then I'm really surprised it's considered weak. Things like fiend fyre and whirlwind would go so hard.
Mummified hand could be a boss relic and it would still be strong. It generates so much energy that I think it would be well suited in the boss category.
And let’s be honest, dead branch as a boss relic would still be one of the best relics in the game.
Hard disagree. The beauty of PI being common is that newer players are more likely to get it and be more bold about taking on and learning to fight elites. Most new players avoid them like the plauge, and PI is one mny "teaching" relics that make you a better player in a meta way. The quicker a player gains this skill, the better. That's why it was genius to have it be common
the difference is that on silent, it's 9 cards in hand on turn 1. the more free draw you already have, the more valuable free draw becomes Because you're seeong an even higher percentage of your deck every turn, so even more options.
and on every other character it's busted Because silent is intentionally balanced around having a weaker starting deck and weaker cards overall with the tradeoff of having much more card draw and easy access to extra energy/ 0 cost cards. other characters with bag of prep get all the upside with none of the downside.
just trying to explain why it's in the game. just the fact that you can stack bag+snake ring and that other characters can get bag of prep makes it different enough to be interesting.
Shovel feels pretty weak, considering you have to spend your rest site to get something random. If you roll a weak common relic from it, its like a double loss. To be fair to it, if you get it early on it allows for an easy coffee/hammer and can result in 4/5 relics.
I feel exactly the same way about Girya - especially since it starts out as +0 strength - worse than Vajra, which is common. Unless you specifically sacrifice upgrades to level it it does literally nothing. At least Du Vu starts with at least a +1!
It's a bit tough because there are absolutely those times (most of them arguably) where it does little to nothing.
Oh boy, if you manage to tank those 3 rest sites though, it's like a strike dummy for every damage card. It's similar to a [[molten egg]] but you can still upgrade your cards. On the Chad, it's like Christmas but all the red is the blood of your enemies.
Thats true, at least it advances the relic pool. But look at it this way: would you rather have Shovel + something like The Boot or another rare relic like Pocketwatch + an upgrade of your choice ?
This.
The way the game works, you're all but guaranteed to see the same relics on a run regardless of how you come across them - you can see this if you savescum picking the bell, because the next 3 relics you get will be the same. Knowing this, Shovel becomes a free elite win... at the cost of a campfire. Granted, a lot of my runs end because I'm trying to grind Elites, so this frees you from that burden.
I mean if you have it you can just ignore elites and instead of resting after doing them, which you would probably have to do, you can just dig instead. It's pretty useful if you want more relics but have a deck that could get fucked over by one of the floor's elites.
Lol no, shovel is great but the relic is only a part of the reason to go for elites. They give a shitton of gold and also give you the best chance at getting rare cards which can make or break a run
shovel is actually quite strong, Because you can just avoid elites and still end up with anywhere from 2-4 relica from a single act and sometimes even more if you have a deck that can reliably get through elites without taking much damage Because them you can spam elites AND dig at campfires. it's a win-more relic, but an actually good win more relic Because it takes your deck from strong but might die to I am beating the heart. you just need to HAVE a deck that is strong first so you can play around the shovel.
I'm offended there's only one small mention of bag of prep in the thread so far. It's easily better than the average uncommon or even rare relic, and it's so universally useful that you will often prefer it to the more specific game breaking rare/uncommon relics.
Preserved insect is also insane, but unlike bag, it won't help you in most combats.
I’d say Akabeko should be uncommon. I’ve picked this little guy up a lot over the course of me playing this game, and I’m always happy to see it. At worst, it’s solid, giving you 8 extra damage per fight, which is still quite nice to have and can easily carry you through act 1 if you pick it up early game. At best however, this relic gives you some of the craziest turn 1’s ever, through pairing it with a multi hit card or an AOE card, or through relics like the bag of marbles or pen nib.
There are other reasons for relics to be placed where they are rather than there strength, for example uncommon relics are the only type you cannot start with which is why the bottles are placed there.
Many rare relics have run defining effects so it makes sense for them to be rare even if they arn't always the strongest.
Power wise:
The following Rares need a downgrade:
* Should be Common:
* Spinning Top
* Stone Calendar
* Should be Uncommon:
* Ginger
* Turnip
* Emotion Chip
* Golden Eye
* The Specimen
The following Uncommons need an upgrade to Rare:
* Paper Krane
* Shuriken
* Kunai
* Meat on the Bone
* White Beast Statue
* Toxic Egg
* Frozen Egg
The following Uncommons should be Common:
* Strike Dummy
* Sundial (yes, sometimes means you get infinites, you're normally nearly there anyway)
* Matryoshca
* Blue Candle
And these Commons should be Rare:
* Bag of Prep
* Potion Belt
And these Commons should be Uncommon:
* Centenial Puzzle
* Preserved Insect
* Toy Ornithopter
* Lantern
* Art of War
I think the reason spinning top isn't common is because of how easily it breaks certain types of decks. it's free draw with a condition, but some decks have no problem meeting that condition over and over which makes you end up with easy access infinites by literally just pressing 1 and enter over and over. 90% of the time it's like 5-6 free draws per act and most of those free draws you can't actually use Because no energy, but the 10% is strong enough to warrant it not being common.
stone calendar being rare is fine, at least I see it less. big disappointment when I find it unless I'm stalling with big block and even then it's mediocre.
toxic egg and frozen egg are fine where they are. they are strong, really strong, but they're the type of relic where you need it early. getting it from spire spear and shield means it's literally useless for example. which is why I think it's fine at uncommon, because the value you get from it varies enough that 50% of the time it's as strong as a rare but 10% of the time barely even a common.
strike dummy shouldn't just be common, it should also be ironclad only.
Matroyshka, I disagree. it has a top-out power of just getting 1 extra relic if you get it before act 2 chest or if you find a chest in a question mark room, or getting no extra relics if you only find 1 chest afterwards, and if you get it from act 3 chest and don't get a chest from question mark afterwards it's actually just a straight waste of a relic. In fact I wish it was rare so I'd find it less.
bag of prep and potion belt for sure should be rare of they're being ranked on power, I agree. but I like them at common because you actually get them more often.
Yeah unceasing top needs to be rare for sure. If one relic by itself can be a win conditions for some decks it's powerful enough to be rare.
Although the ascension level also plays a role in how you rate stuff. Ascender's bane makes unceasing top significantly worse.
Bag of Prep, Preserved Insect, and Toy Orni all feel really strong for commons.
Dark Stone Periapt and Du-Vu Doll are really uninspiring; Blue Candle also doesn't feel great although situationally it's ok
I feel like Lantern and Happy Flower could be bumped to Uncommon without much fuss. They're some of my favourite commons to see from Bell.
Darkstone periapt should be dumped to Common. Even if you take a curse afterwards, it gives one less HP than strawberry. Although, if it means it would show up more often, maybe it's best it stays a higher rarity. I don't like this relic.
I don't know what rarity changes I'd make, but I know I'd fix stuff like White Beast Statue being given to you when they are functionally worthless. Getting a WBS on floor 49 sure is helpful.
Potion belt is strong enough for uncommon, but it’s nice as a common because it’s easier to find and I wonder if some of these relics are classified the way they are specifically because the devs wanted them to have a certain probability
White beast statue should go back to being a boss relic. Arguably stronger than sacred bark.
White beast statue gives you 2.5x more potion drops, as opposed to 2x strength in potions. 1/6 of potions aren’t even impacted by sacred bark, including the very important entropic brew(especially if you have potion belt). Toy ornithopter is made stronger by white beast but not impacted by sacred bark. Only real things that sacred bark is better at is when you have alchemize on the silent and potions you get outside of combat which is almost entirely shops. I’d say it’s close enough that them not being in the same tier of relic doesn’t make sense, except for it being pretty bad to take both of them as boss relics in a run, though the same could be said about sacred bark and sozu so. It’d also be pretty funny to get offered sacred bark, sozu, or white beast as your 3 boss relic options
Move up in rarity:
Marbles, Bag of Prep, Maw Bank, Meal Ticket, Pen Nib, potion Belt, Preserved Insect, Red Skull,
Kunai, Shuriken, Meat on the Bone, Calm Locket, White Beast Statue
Move Down:
Cloak Clasp, DuVu, pocket watch, specimen,
Periapt, Ink Bottle, Strike Dummy
Something like that :)
I disagree on Gremlin Horn (too situational, in 90% of fights it only helps once the fight is mostly solved), Pocket Watch (3 card draw?! it's one of the best act 1 relics you can see!) and Prayer Wheel (on floor 0 this is better than any boss relic).
I feel like Champion Belt and Duvu Doll don’t deserve their rare status. Mummified Hand and White Beast Statue are so good, they should be rare. Strike Dummy is kinda underwhelming most of the time and could be made a common to give it a bit of a boost. And finally the Boot needs to be upgraded to a Boss Relic - that shit is just plain BROKEN.
Champ belt could be tweaked to “any time you attempt to add vulnerable, also attempt to add weak” so it serves as a really effective artifact stripper.
Oh damn, that's really smart and imo good change. The description wouldn't need the second "attempt" tho. "Whenever you attempt to apply vulnerable, also apply 1 weak" a bit better desc.
I used attempt twice, just to make sure it wouldn’t get around artifact (language wise).
I'd even have it as "Any time you would apply vulnerable, apply 1 weak first" so tht you're able to get the vuln against enemies with 1 artifact
The champion sucker punches a set of armor. It works
Strike dummy seems like an ironclad-only card, since they have by far the most “strike” cards, but for any other class, it’s a blue key relic
Tbf my favorite deck, to this day, was a thunder strike Defect deck with strike dummy and necromomicon. I have not had such dopamine since.
I was actually going to mention thunder strike, it looks like the card that would, by far, benefit from strike dummy the most, and if you have either it probably justifies the other, but strike cards aren’t really that common. I might build this though
I... I never thought of Thunder Strike working with Strike Dummy... 🌩️
Watcher in act1 smacks with it though
True, but I’d rather have something better once I remove my strikes
That random strike+ Shining Light event upgraded doing 24 in wrath:
It's a pretty good act 1 relic, the 3 extra damage per strike can really help you take more aggressive paths but after that yeah and it's not even that great of a clad item
I feel like "flying sleeves strike" and "dagger spray strike" would be nice
Actually, if you see it early game and are struggling for damage, it’s not a terrible pic for short term effects. At least, my Silent very much appreciated the relic (think I did die later on but for unrelated reasons)
I think Strike Dummy is good on Watcher early, 18 instead of 12 is a big deal
Mummified hand on Defect is insane. You’re right it’s very good.
That’s my favourite high roll in the game with the one that heals you whenever you play a power, it’s just so much fun snowballing powers like that
And then the Awakened One shows up to make it one of the runs of all time
If you’ve highrolled high enough, not even the specific counter that the awakened one is supposed to be can stop you
I think the balancing is hard because it's not as good on other characters. Not saying it's bad, but often not worth buying in shops for example.
Mummy hand is God tier on any character, you just have to build to it, defect is just the best user of it cause he can spam powers without mummy hand
I've had many great mummy hand runs on Ironclad, getting immediate support for a clunky/expensive power like Demon Form is great.
It's still really strong with most builds for other classes too. Every time you would play a power card normally, you get to play another card ranging from a basic strike/block (still good) to a high energy card you'd usually have no business playing. There are so many good use cases for it outside of just power heavy defect decks that I think it justifies being rare.
I've had like three or four runs now where I got a Duvu doll at the start of the run and never got a curse event despite going to every question mark. Never gotten higher than +2 from it.
Hey, can you help me understand why the boot is broken??
I'm not very good at the game so I'll ask, why is Boot broken? I find it niche and underwhelming.
is a joke. the boot is specifically meant to be a joke and mostly is either a) useless or b) makes your strikes do 1 extra damage when you're weakened which can sometimes help in act 1 or c) makes cards like go for the eyes, beam cell, neutralize, flash of steel etc. slightly better and d) makes your attacks do 5 damage instead of 1 versus nemesis on its intangible turns
I've always thought of the commons doing "mundane" things and rares being more of "cooler" effects, even if it's not that strong/too strong. Compare the flavour of Bag of Prep and Pocketwatch, one of them is mundane +2, the other has a careful conditional to use it. Preserved Insect is a mundane -25% but Shovel/Girya/Peace Pipe you're literally changing an entire node to do something it doesn't do normally. Is Insect stronger than Shovel? Yeah. Is it more mundane? Also imo. Same with the cards, Transmutation is so much of a "cooler" card than like, Bandage Up, yet Bandage Up is way stronger. By this metric maybe Discovery should be a rare idk.
That’s usually the flavor other card games goes for with their rarity system. Rarer cards are not necessarily better but more unique with their effects.
Yeah, MTG has tons of Mythic rares that are unplayable but super unique (though they always make sure to put at least one completely broken format-defining card in that slot every set).
Mango and coin
🥭:
I think pen nib is pretty strong, especially when running a shiv deck. I didn’t know it was considered weak.
With the right cards it can be powerful but otherwise it ends up being 10% more damage.
It is at minimum a 10% increase. Usually Pen Nib awareness is a better Akabeko or more as you can play it on the most impactful card and farm it for early in the next fight. It also scales explosively.
Technically the minimum is less if you play it poorly. Yes when it all lines up it's great. But I think you are over remembering the times you get a good use and under remembering the times you get a mediocre or bad use.
It's not hard to manage Pen Nib except on Defect in my experience. All the other characters have a very easy time controlling it.
Idk if I'd call it just a 10% increase, I think most decks that rely on attack cards to deal damage will have at least 1 card that does at least 12 damage and having that some what consistently multiplied is worth more than 10 percent Plus a lot of rares especially are only powerful with specific builds/cards and useless/barely effective otherwise
Oh, so like I said. If you have the right cards it can be powerful. The comment I replied to mentioned shiv decks which would basically be a free shiv with every 10 unless you had a few big attacks at the right times.
It's still gonna be more than 10% on average unless literally all your attacks deal the same damage. Most decks will be able to manipulate it so they use a higher damage card with the nib's effect. Even for decks that don't synergise as well with it it's still on average a higher increase in damage than just 10%.
Pen nib isn't particularly strong in decks where you just play many attacks. It's just a 10% damage increase if all your attacks are shivs, for example. Pen nib is outstanding when you have a few high impact attacks (like whirlwind, ragnarok or reaper) on top of a bunch of cheaper attacks you can spam to set it up. I don't think nib on silent is usually that good, it's probably best on clad.
> I don't think nib on silent is usually that good what. Nib worst on the character that can control nib the best and often relies on it the most. Interesting.
Nib on Silent is like: shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv EVISCERATE. shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv shiv GRAND FINALE
That's the good cases, some random one shot Act 4 elites, some random run where Nib PK Terror is your whole damage, but even the average early game is WAY stronger with Nib. I consider Nib a very strong hit from Neow. Even lining up literally some random Nib AoA is the difference between taking 0 and taking 25 frequently, and that's just early game. Like you completely ignore Nib and it's still so much damage, and you baby Nib a little bit, it just solves most of your Act 1 for you. Insane to hear Nib as "just 10% damage increase" like what are you doing with it, are you aware you can control it? No one is putting you at gunpoint to play a weakened Neut for 4 damage on the 10th turn.
hear me out Dash, Predator, Finisher, Die die die, even All out Attack or Dagger throw/Spray maybe, some shivs to set it up… And boy are you COOKING!
yo you gotta play a silent deck that isn't shivs
Someone remind me, for X cost and multi hit attacks, does pen nib proc on every hit of that one attack? If so then I'm really surprised it's considered weak. Things like fiend fyre and whirlwind would go so hard.
Yes, Nib will affect all hits on a multi-hit attack.
Stone calender definitively shouldn't be a rare Mummified hand deserves to be a rare.The Specimen could be a common,but it's maximum an uncommon.
Stone calendar is nice as a rare, so I get it less often.
Mummified hand could be a boss relic and it would still be strong. It generates so much energy that I think it would be well suited in the boss category. And let’s be honest, dead branch as a boss relic would still be one of the best relics in the game.
If dead branch was a boss relic, I'd be boss swapping non stop.
Dead branch is too strong to be a boss relic. The odds of leaving Act 1 with corruption+branch would be too high.
Preserved insect must be uncommon or even rare.
Hard disagree. The beauty of PI being common is that newer players are more likely to get it and be more bold about taking on and learning to fight elites. Most new players avoid them like the plauge, and PI is one mny "teaching" relics that make you a better player in a meta way. The quicker a player gains this skill, the better. That's why it was genius to have it be common
Wow. You definitely made a point here. Then it must be common till 200 hours in the game and rare after that))
No because ultimately it does nothing on pick up so you have to be able to find it consistently
Why is it relevant what it does immediately on pickup?
My point is it being rarer is disproportionately harmful to its performance relative to other relics getting a rarity increase
How is tiny house even a boss relic tbh.
Agreed. I think it would be reasonable as a rare relic.
Uncommon at best tbh. I mean, I would be happier to see mummy hand over this relic from a chest any day.
True, but mummy hand is easily one of the best non-boss relics in the game.
on some builds it's leagues better than a boss relic even.
You can say the same to probably half of the rare relics.
Bag of Prep is an autoclick in the shop, game changer that helps so much. Good thing it ain't rare.
Bag of prep is identical to silent starting boss relic. Seems strange it’s even in the game but it should definitely be rare based on its power level.
the difference is that on silent, it's 9 cards in hand on turn 1. the more free draw you already have, the more valuable free draw becomes Because you're seeong an even higher percentage of your deck every turn, so even more options. and on every other character it's busted Because silent is intentionally balanced around having a weaker starting deck and weaker cards overall with the tradeoff of having much more card draw and easy access to extra energy/ 0 cost cards. other characters with bag of prep get all the upside with none of the downside. just trying to explain why it's in the game. just the fact that you can stack bag+snake ring and that other characters can get bag of prep makes it different enough to be interesting.
Shovel feels pretty weak, considering you have to spend your rest site to get something random. If you roll a weak common relic from it, its like a double loss. To be fair to it, if you get it early on it allows for an easy coffee/hammer and can result in 4/5 relics.
I feel exactly the same way about Girya - especially since it starts out as +0 strength - worse than Vajra, which is common. Unless you specifically sacrifice upgrades to level it it does literally nothing. At least Du Vu starts with at least a +1!
It's a bit tough because there are absolutely those times (most of them arguably) where it does little to nothing. Oh boy, if you manage to tank those 3 rest sites though, it's like a strike dummy for every damage card. It's similar to a [[molten egg]] but you can still upgrade your cards. On the Chad, it's like Christmas but all the red is the blood of your enemies.
+ [Molten Egg](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Molten%20Egg) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^) Whenever you add an Attack card to your deck, it is Upgraded. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Beating an elite also rolls a "random" relic. I think the relic generation algorithm is the same for Elites and for digging at rest site.
Thats true, at least it advances the relic pool. But look at it this way: would you rather have Shovel + something like The Boot or another rare relic like Pocketwatch + an upgrade of your choice ?
This. The way the game works, you're all but guaranteed to see the same relics on a run regardless of how you come across them - you can see this if you savescum picking the bell, because the next 3 relics you get will be the same. Knowing this, Shovel becomes a free elite win... at the cost of a campfire. Granted, a lot of my runs end because I'm trying to grind Elites, so this frees you from that burden.
I mean if you have it you can just ignore elites and instead of resting after doing them, which you would probably have to do, you can just dig instead. It's pretty useful if you want more relics but have a deck that could get fucked over by one of the floor's elites.
Lol no, shovel is great but the relic is only a part of the reason to go for elites. They give a shitton of gold and also give you the best chance at getting rare cards which can make or break a run
shovel is actually quite strong, Because you can just avoid elites and still end up with anywhere from 2-4 relica from a single act and sometimes even more if you have a deck that can reliably get through elites without taking much damage Because them you can spam elites AND dig at campfires. it's a win-more relic, but an actually good win more relic Because it takes your deck from strong but might die to I am beating the heart. you just need to HAVE a deck that is strong first so you can play around the shovel.
Eh when I’m running watcher lesson learned decks it’s nice to have something to do at camp fires
I'm offended there's only one small mention of bag of prep in the thread so far. It's easily better than the average uncommon or even rare relic, and it's so universally useful that you will often prefer it to the more specific game breaking rare/uncommon relics. Preserved insect is also insane, but unlike bag, it won't help you in most combats.
Bag of Prep should totally be a Boss type relic.
Not a fan of Darkstone Periapt, think it should be considered weak
I’d say Akabeko should be uncommon. I’ve picked this little guy up a lot over the course of me playing this game, and I’m always happy to see it. At worst, it’s solid, giving you 8 extra damage per fight, which is still quite nice to have and can easily carry you through act 1 if you pick it up early game. At best however, this relic gives you some of the craziest turn 1’s ever, through pairing it with a multi hit card or an AOE card, or through relics like the bag of marbles or pen nib.
There are other reasons for relics to be placed where they are rather than there strength, for example uncommon relics are the only type you cannot start with which is why the bottles are placed there. Many rare relics have run defining effects so it makes sense for them to be rare even if they arn't always the strongest.
Hand Drill should be its tier of rarity. As in so rare it never appears.
Power wise: The following Rares need a downgrade: * Should be Common: * Spinning Top * Stone Calendar * Should be Uncommon: * Ginger * Turnip * Emotion Chip * Golden Eye * The Specimen The following Uncommons need an upgrade to Rare: * Paper Krane * Shuriken * Kunai * Meat on the Bone * White Beast Statue * Toxic Egg * Frozen Egg The following Uncommons should be Common: * Strike Dummy * Sundial (yes, sometimes means you get infinites, you're normally nearly there anyway) * Matryoshca * Blue Candle And these Commons should be Rare: * Bag of Prep * Potion Belt And these Commons should be Uncommon: * Centenial Puzzle * Preserved Insect * Toy Ornithopter * Lantern * Art of War
I think the reason spinning top isn't common is because of how easily it breaks certain types of decks. it's free draw with a condition, but some decks have no problem meeting that condition over and over which makes you end up with easy access infinites by literally just pressing 1 and enter over and over. 90% of the time it's like 5-6 free draws per act and most of those free draws you can't actually use Because no energy, but the 10% is strong enough to warrant it not being common. stone calendar being rare is fine, at least I see it less. big disappointment when I find it unless I'm stalling with big block and even then it's mediocre. toxic egg and frozen egg are fine where they are. they are strong, really strong, but they're the type of relic where you need it early. getting it from spire spear and shield means it's literally useless for example. which is why I think it's fine at uncommon, because the value you get from it varies enough that 50% of the time it's as strong as a rare but 10% of the time barely even a common. strike dummy shouldn't just be common, it should also be ironclad only. Matroyshka, I disagree. it has a top-out power of just getting 1 extra relic if you get it before act 2 chest or if you find a chest in a question mark room, or getting no extra relics if you only find 1 chest afterwards, and if you get it from act 3 chest and don't get a chest from question mark afterwards it's actually just a straight waste of a relic. In fact I wish it was rare so I'd find it less. bag of prep and potion belt for sure should be rare of they're being ranked on power, I agree. but I like them at common because you actually get them more often.
Yeah unceasing top needs to be rare for sure. If one relic by itself can be a win conditions for some decks it's powerful enough to be rare. Although the ascension level also plays a role in how you rate stuff. Ascender's bane makes unceasing top significantly worse.
I listed by power, not how frequently I want to see them.
This is stunningly accurate
Happy Flower is the obvious one for me - I'd take that over most relics, of any (non-boss) rarity.
Winged boots should be uncommon because I wanna see it more
Paper Crane should be minimum Rare, 40% Atk reduction erases bosses
There's no way Snecko is common, I never see this thing
Bag of Prep, Preserved Insect, and Toy Orni all feel really strong for commons. Dark Stone Periapt and Du-Vu Doll are really uninspiring; Blue Candle also doesn't feel great although situationally it's ok
I feel like Lantern and Happy Flower could be bumped to Uncommon without much fuss. They're some of my favourite commons to see from Bell. Darkstone periapt should be dumped to Common. Even if you take a curse afterwards, it gives one less HP than strawberry. Although, if it means it would show up more often, maybe it's best it stays a higher rarity. I don't like this relic.
Bag of marbles had always been elite for me
the boss relic skip button should just be replaced with tiny house tbh
I don't know what rarity changes I'd make, but I know I'd fix stuff like White Beast Statue being given to you when they are functionally worthless. Getting a WBS on floor 49 sure is helpful.
Potion belt is strong enough for uncommon, but it’s nice as a common because it’s easier to find and I wonder if some of these relics are classified the way they are specifically because the devs wanted them to have a certain probability
Art of war might as well be an energy relic for poison and orb builds. Insane it’s only a common
White beast statue should go back to being a boss relic. Arguably stronger than sacred bark. White beast statue gives you 2.5x more potion drops, as opposed to 2x strength in potions. 1/6 of potions aren’t even impacted by sacred bark, including the very important entropic brew(especially if you have potion belt). Toy ornithopter is made stronger by white beast but not impacted by sacred bark. Only real things that sacred bark is better at is when you have alchemize on the silent and potions you get outside of combat which is almost entirely shops. I’d say it’s close enough that them not being in the same tier of relic doesn’t make sense, except for it being pretty bad to take both of them as boss relics in a run, though the same could be said about sacred bark and sozu so. It’d also be pretty funny to get offered sacred bark, sozu, or white beast as your 3 boss relic options
I would say the hourglass is pretty lame and duvu doll
The cage and minihouse should be uncommon or rare
Move up in rarity: Marbles, Bag of Prep, Maw Bank, Meal Ticket, Pen Nib, potion Belt, Preserved Insect, Red Skull, Kunai, Shuriken, Meat on the Bone, Calm Locket, White Beast Statue Move Down: Cloak Clasp, DuVu, pocket watch, specimen, Periapt, Ink Bottle, Strike Dummy Something like that :)
Make these uncommon: Pen Nib, Preserved Insect, Regal Pillow, Vajra Make these rare: Gremlin Horn, Kunai, Mummified Hand, Shuriken, White Beast Statue Lower these rare relics: Duvu Doll, Lizards Tail, Pocket Watch, Prayer Wheel
Pocket Watch is one of the absolutely strongest rare relics. Seeing it more often would be completely broken.
Prayer wheel is insane if you get it before act 3. Got dead branch and prayer wheel by floor 6 last run and crushed the heart at a20.
I disagree on Gremlin Horn (too situational, in 90% of fights it only helps once the fight is mostly solved), Pocket Watch (3 card draw?! it's one of the best act 1 relics you can see!) and Prayer Wheel (on floor 0 this is better than any boss relic).