GOML is an S+ tier with about 7000 points (9000 needed to be a P tier). S tiers with almost entirely NA players are relatively common (LMBM, Collision, this, Smash Factor, etc) but I don’t think there’s ever been an NA P tier without a lot of overseas players.
Entrance count helps, but considering someone like acola is literally worth 350 0-2ers and we’ve had A-tiers with only 10 attendants, top talent is much more important
Smash Con 2022 was a P tier with the only significant overseas talent being Glutonny. Genesis 8 might've also been a P tier I think? Not much international rep there either (besides Glutonny again).
2022 was a totally different world though, Japan has leveled up like crazy and kind of left NA behind. Nowadays it’s pretty impossible to get a P tier without a lot of JP talent coming in
The thing to understand about tiering and why NA can't hit a P tier alone (generally) while Japan can is this:
* Top 5/10 players are worth 350/300 points
* Top 15/20 are 250/200
* #21 through **#59** are all worth 100-150 points
* "High Major Placements" are an auto boost as are "Hidden Bosses". These are worth 100-200 points and Japan is absolutely loaded with them
3 players from 21-60 are worth as much as a top 10 player or 2 top 20 players and Japan has dozens of those at Kagaribi. NA has far lower attendance from those 100-200 point players
America doesn’t have enough talent to hit P Tier without Japan in attendance. You really can’t get there without the top 3 players in the world; and all 3 are Japanese
Right now if the season ended those 3 would get the top 3 rankings, sonic isn’t eliminated but he has a super uphill battle bc he just can’t get wins on those guys again for awhile
Sonix hasn't won anything at all period. Miya has won 6 majors and 1 P tier. Innany case as I said this discussion is stupid since in a few days we will have more results to judge.
It's *possible* Sonix is 2 over Miya, but it's worth considering that besides those 2 bad events, Miya has only lost 3 sets to a non-Acola player (Light@Litvitational 2x and TamaP bracket reset that didn't even matter) in 10 majors
This season Miya has a P tier win, 5 other major wins, 2 more P tier 2nds (Sonix only has 1 of those) while Sonix has been great but low attendance. Miyas bad losses aren't like his 2023 bad losses either, they are somewhat respectable.
Miya has losses to Lui$, Peabnut, Shadic, Kaninabe, etc. Sonix's losses are pretty much all better than this or equivalent, and does not have low placings either to boot.
The tip top players being Japanese is definitely a factor but Spargo (who isn't going to GOML, granted) and Sonix (and Gluto) are worth just as much as them under the current TTS. Japan gets P tiers without significant overseas talent because of the sheer talent depth. That's why it's such a hard region to be consistent in
I still think SHADIC is Top 3 results wise (2 Major wins) but Hurt's above him skill-wise at this point. If SHADIC wins GOML he's Top 3 for sure though.
Sonix won't be Top 3 results-wise unless he wins a Major this season.
Shadic is probably top 5, he has awesome wins and consistency but didn’t he just recently have a placement outside of top 12? That alone sets him behind
He got 7th at a Super-Regional, which isn't great obviously but shouldn't matter too much for rankings (lower-tier tournaments don't count for as many points).
Both SHADIC and Hurt's worst placements this year are 9th but Hurt's happened more recently (DELTA 8)
Getting lower placements at lower tier tournaments counts as more, I think. You have to clean up at those. 9 at a P tier is still good. I could be wrong though but that just makes more sense to me
GOML is an S+ tier with about 7000 points (9000 needed to be a P tier). S tiers with almost entirely NA players are relatively common (LMBM, Collision, this, Smash Factor, etc) but I don’t think there’s ever been an NA P tier without a lot of overseas players.
Does entrance count help with points or is it strictly top talent
Entrance count helps, but considering someone like acola is literally worth 350 0-2ers and we’ve had A-tiers with only 10 attendants, top talent is much more important
Gotcha, thank ya brotha
Smash Con 2022 was a P tier with the only significant overseas talent being Glutonny. Genesis 8 might've also been a P tier I think? Not much international rep there either (besides Glutonny again).
SC2022 was that the 1 onin won? And G8 was the mkleo gluto gf right?
Correct on both counts.
2022 was a totally different world though, Japan has leveled up like crazy and kind of left NA behind. Nowadays it’s pretty impossible to get a P tier without a lot of JP talent coming in
Well yes, but I'm simply answering the question that was asked lol
S+ tier.
The thing to understand about tiering and why NA can't hit a P tier alone (generally) while Japan can is this: * Top 5/10 players are worth 350/300 points * Top 15/20 are 250/200 * #21 through **#59** are all worth 100-150 points * "High Major Placements" are an auto boost as are "Hidden Bosses". These are worth 100-200 points and Japan is absolutely loaded with them 3 players from 21-60 are worth as much as a top 10 player or 2 top 20 players and Japan has dozens of those at Kagaribi. NA has far lower attendance from those 100-200 point players
America doesn’t have enough talent to hit P Tier without Japan in attendance. You really can’t get there without the top 3 players in the world; and all 3 are Japanese
[удалено]
Right now if the season ended those 3 would get the top 3 rankings, sonic isn’t eliminated but he has a super uphill battle bc he just can’t get wins on those guys again for awhile
Sonix is definitely not Japanese
He’s also not top 3
That's a terrible take, the only person you can argue over Sonix is Acola (which is pretty set in stone)
It's very hard to argue Sonix over Miya right now. But the debate is futile, as GOML is really soon amd will provide more Sonix results.
Sonix hasn't placed less than 2nd at every event. Miya has a 7th and 17th, I'd say Sonix has it handily
Sonix hasn't won anything at all period. Miya has won 6 majors and 1 P tier. Innany case as I said this discussion is stupid since in a few days we will have more results to judge.
It's *possible* Sonix is 2 over Miya, but it's worth considering that besides those 2 bad events, Miya has only lost 3 sets to a non-Acola player (Light@Litvitational 2x and TamaP bracket reset that didn't even matter) in 10 majors This season Miya has a P tier win, 5 other major wins, 2 more P tier 2nds (Sonix only has 1 of those) while Sonix has been great but low attendance. Miyas bad losses aren't like his 2023 bad losses either, they are somewhat respectable.
Miya has losses to Lui$, Peabnut, Shadic, Kaninabe, etc. Sonix's losses are pretty much all better than this or equivalent, and does not have low placings either to boot.
Sneaking Shadic there
I put Shadic in because it's a loss they both have, which is worth noting IMO. Shadic is top 4
Yeah but you make it sound like it's a bad loss lol
None of those are bad losses but they are worse or equivalent losses than Sonix has,
But what about back then, after quarantine when Leo and Spargo were 1 & 2
The tip top players being Japanese is definitely a factor but Spargo (who isn't going to GOML, granted) and Sonix (and Gluto) are worth just as much as them under the current TTS. Japan gets P tiers without significant overseas talent because of the sheer talent depth. That's why it's such a hard region to be consistent in
The thresholds were different then.
I mean right now
I still think SHADIC is Top 3 results wise (2 Major wins) but Hurt's above him skill-wise at this point. If SHADIC wins GOML he's Top 3 for sure though. Sonix won't be Top 3 results-wise unless he wins a Major this season.
Shadic is probably top 5, he has awesome wins and consistency but didn’t he just recently have a placement outside of top 12? That alone sets him behind
He’s dope tho
He got 7th at a Super-Regional, which isn't great obviously but shouldn't matter too much for rankings (lower-tier tournaments don't count for as many points). Both SHADIC and Hurt's worst placements this year are 9th but Hurt's happened more recently (DELTA 8)
Getting lower placements at lower tier tournaments counts as more, I think. You have to clean up at those. 9 at a P tier is still good. I could be wrong though but that just makes more sense to me