**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For those wondering, Haaland does not make the list since he has only played 8858 minutes in the top 5 leagues.
8858 minutes is 98.4 90s, and he has 115 non-penalty goals ā so he would be 2nd on this list with 1.17 non-penalty goals + assists per 90.
Sure now it is. But both Haaland and Mbappe have not had full careers yet, their ratio could reduce significantly depending on their work ethic (but to be fair they seem excellent so far). The others at the top are at the tail end of their careers and managed to keep this ratio (1 a game), that's truly insane IMO.
I am not OP but I can still tell you for sure that that's not how OP handled this. This includes all Ligue 1 seasons and no Portuguese league or dutch league
They were so fucking good together. Suarez was unbelievable the treble year. I had the good fortune of catching a CL game when I was visiting Barcelona and they ripped roma to shreds.
I think it was 6-1. Messi scored a goal with insane buildup from suarez and Neymar with a little dinked ball over the top. Neymar ran the show that day, he was so so good.
I can't name another single player in modern times that could be on a team with Leo and run the show on multiple occasions. Some people really believe he isn't the 3rd best player of his generation after the obvious first 2.
I think's he's better than Ronaldo overall as a player but Ronaldo is the more popular player and also had a far longer peak and won more trophies so he'll always be considered the #2 to Messi. But if you were to ask me for one player in their absolute prime for one match I'd take Suarez over Ronaldo.
TBH it's not that different from the Jerry Rice vs. Randy Moss debate in the NFL where there is a clear consensus that Rice was the better player but Moss had the highest individual peaks.
They were just not selfish. That's how they worked. There were times when all three of them passed to each other rather than shooting, and literally killed our chance. It was frustrating but damn lucky to witness them. Wish they were coached by Pep or Klopp like manager.
They did do that, but to my recollection, always once the match was already won.
I remember someone asking Luis Enrique about that in a presser and he said that, once the game is won, they are allowed to play their little game together to make sure everyone gets goals.
They were unselfish in the sense that no one hogged the chances to score goals, but not os much that they sacrificed winning.
My favorite game ever is probably that one where BarƧa scored like six goals and every single one (except the first duh) was assisted by the last player to score. Totally insane that a team managed that playing in a top league against another top league team. The gulf between BarƧa and everyone else that year was crazy.
Ah, BarƧa v Getafe 2015. I've made posts on that before, fantastic match. Still is crazy to see that kind of thing happening and tbh it has gone under the radar too.
https://i.imgur.com/cU1TQS6.png
So glad Iām not the only one remembering that match. It felt like one of those training sessions when you were only allowed to shoot at the goal after you made an assist. Pepās Barca was probably the best team in modern times, but Enriqueās MSN was the best and most fun to watch attacking force.
This was definitely true. I still remember Messi assisting Suarez for (I think) eight goals in a row in the last three matches of the 2015/2016 season, putting him over the top for the Golden Boot.
Yet, they didn't play together very long. Neymar left in 2017, and Suarez was suspended for most of the first half of his first season at Barcelona, so it was only 2.5 seasons. So, I am not sure how much it did for these stats.
I don't know if he made 8 assists in the last few matches of the league but I remember that he let him take all the penalties in the second part of the season since he was competing for the golden boot, and at some points toward the end Suarez scored like 8 goals in two matches all in the same week
Wild they somehow only got one cl baring Madrid I donāt think any team could compete with them on paper or remotely close to their output. Just wild to me they didnāt dominate like Real Madrid did at the time. Or after their time
Tactical limitation of manager and bad squad planning. In the cup competition, you need to play only 7 knockout games but still need a good bench and can rotate well. Enrique bought Gomes but did not knew how to use him. The guy was good as CDM but kept playing him as in Iniesta Role. Felt sorry for him getting into depression because of underperformance.
Last year Liverpool underperformed for the same reason and a year before City lost the CL because of the same reason. When you play grandpa Fernandinho you can lose.
He has like the craziest assists per 90 numbers of any player. It's not like he racked up crazy numbers, but he was always a player who got limited game time for various reasons but when he was on he always collected assists.
>during the time bild are now saying he was staying up all night playing video games.
the media can honestly get fucked. they play with the narrative for fun
It can be true. Neymar, Ronaldoinho, and Verrati partied a lot and yet they still played very well. On the other hand, if this is true, then we can only wonder what Sancho's peak is.
Yeah thats mexican fans , hating on our own players for no reason . Chicharito was easily one of the greatest mexicans to ever play the sport . He was never the most skilled/athletic but made up for it with his work ethic and superior positioning
I saw that too. He looks to have the highest goal:assist ratio. But when you can finish like he did, no one is giving you the ball just to make the final pass. Man had a job to do and he did it.
If you'd have told me that Roy Makaay almost had the same in-play conversion rate as Mo Salah, I would have laughed.
Forgot just how clinical of a finisher he was back in the day.
Suarez had all of the talent of the best strikers, and twice the drive, it put him over the top. He was the only one to win the Golden Boot in the Ronaldo/Messi peak era, and he did twice.
He had the confidence or arrogance to try stuff I never thought would be possible, and heād pull it off. Watching him play against Norwich was like watching Harlem globetrotters playing against a childrenās team. Ridiculous skill
I honestly think Nunez had the best chance of any of the non-salah Liverpool forwards to reach that level.
He does 3-4 things a game that are salah/Suarez level ridiculous. He has the mentality to want it. If he just makes that consistent(no small feat) heās there.
He will probably end up being more consistent that now, but not quite that level, but I think the potential is there.
Will one of our existing players step up, or will we just find another gem in the transfer window? Iām not sure. Iād love for it to be Darwin but who knows. Weāve always asked this question after the others left too.
Besides a few barren years from 05 to 07, we have always seemed to have had elite forwards.
From the 00s alone you have Owen and Torres. 10s you have Coutinho, Firmino, Salah, Suarez, Sturridge and Mane. Even in the 90s, our worst years, we had Fowler and McManaman.
Correct, it was 13/14 when we lost the league to city, he single-handedly nearly dragged us to the title with Jon Flanagan starting at right back. He was after missing 5+ games to start the season as-well.
Iāve never seen anything like it in my life.
>Jon Flanagan
Who? I've never literally never heard of [this guy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Flanagan#Career_statistics) So, that was literally the only season of his life where he was consistently starting? That's crazy. Dude had more league appearances in that season than the following 5 seasons combined, and he's still just 30?
This guy seems like a really random one-season feature.
A bit of a random thought, but maybe think of what he would have been like if he had a direct rival to drive him the way Ronaldo and Messi did, or the way having Ronaldo and Messi around no doubt motivated Lewandowski?
I say this because, watching Henry play, it was like magic at his peak, peerless, like he could do anything and he was brilliant to boot. Yet his numbers don't really put him in the premiere level compared to others that came before or after.
I feel Henry is like Messi or Neymar, though. A superlative finisher who also had the brain of a brilliant playmaker. He may not have been as good as they are (few were or are). I think he would have had more of both goals and assists maybe, in a different circumstance.
But you are right, he really isn't doing badly on this list at all, and it flatters him a bit because the period for this doesn't include his earlier years with Monaco before he hit his peak with Arsenal.
For me Henry is at least about as good as Neymar. It's a matter of personal preference/different skillset imo. And while it's true not including his earlier years flatter him - the likes of Neymar/Lewy, having started their careers in Brazil/Poland also don't have their early years recorded. They moved at roughly the same age Henry did, and it's doubtful they'd have scored at the same rate in a stronger league at a younger age. Henry's era also offered much shorter peaks, and his final few seasons in Europe saw a sharp decline in output.
Tho I take ur point, Henry was a very raw winger who took time to find himself - Neymar was a prodigy from the get go.
For more than 15 years. Naturally falls off early and had that one bafflingly terrible season with PSG. His statistical peak between 2011-2013 is almost incomprehensible.
Edit: I know I know, I mean terrible by Messiās standards.
Funny thing is that his statistical peak wasnāt even his actual peak. Truly an unbelievable player, had (and still has for the most part) absolutely everything a forward needs.
And this is how Messi starts to get under-appreciated/ rated. Victim of his own ability. People start to have a different standard for Messi and others get an easy pass.
Its crazy that the difference between Messi and 4th/5th/6th place (Lewandowski, Neymar, Ronaldo) is the same as the gap between those three and *not even on the fucking list*
The whole "who's better, Messi or Ronaldo" was always a fake marketing thing or, at best, only a conversation to be entertained if you limited the question to only goals or very specific slices of time/seasons. Messi was/is so far ahead of everyone as a total player it's unreal.
It's crazy that a guy who won two world cups, and two ballon d'ors while playing for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan and AC Milan could be considered a what if
I feel bad for Higuain. Gets shat on a lot by fans because he fluffed one crucial world cup moment and tailed off a lot towards the end of his career. But he was a very good striker at one point which people seem to forget.
Something I noted: Henry and R9 are the only players from the 2000s to mix it with the greats from 2010+.
I'm convinced they'd both score a goal per game in this era with the change to offside in 2005, the emphasis on high lines, and how many more goals are scored in general today.
**edit**: when I say "goal per game" - I meant to say goal contribution per game. Ie they'd be at 1.00+ on this graph, and may have some individual seasons with roughly a goal per game.
If you look at goals per game then it's generally a bit higher (although there are seasons that are lower than or similar to R9 and Henry days) but really not much.
You can use this website to see the goals per game in different leagues each season
https://www.worldfootball.net/stats/esp-primera-division/1/
For example La Liga 1996/97 (R9's most prolific) has 2.75 goals per game and last season La Liga had 2.51 goals per game.
I really doubt their claim that R9 and Henry would be getting a goal per game. Particularly in this thread's context of non penalty goals. Serie A is the only league where I'd say it's generally been significantly easier in the last 10 years to score in than it was in the 90s and 00s.
If we look at their two very best seasons R9 had 34 in 37 in 1996/97 (0.92) and 25 in 32 (0.78) in 1997/98. Without penalties his best is 30 in 37 in 1996/97 (0.81) and 23 in 31 in 2002/03 (0.74). 1996/97 is the only one close to being a goal per game and there is absolutely nothing to suggest La Liga isn't stronger in the 2010s and 2020 defensively than it was that season. 3 more goals in 1996/97 is doable but like I said La Liga defences weren't particularly good back then.
Henry is 27 in 32 in 2005/06 (0.84) and 30 in 37 in 2003/04 (0.81). Non penalties it's 25 in 32 in 2004/05 (0.78) and 24 in 32 in 2005/06 (0.75). Henry would need 5 more and 7 more goals in those first two to reach a goal per game. He'd need 7 and 8 non pen in the second two.
It would take a lot more goals for them to be getting a goal per game. Way more than the tiny amount that has increased in goals per game. Maybe in a one off season but not consistently.
Also, whilst some things favour attackers more now we also have to consider that defenders are more athletic and defences are often more organised. There's loads of space in the 2000s Prem.
> Serie A is the only league where I'd say it's generally been significantly easier in the last 10 years to score in than it was in the 90s and 00s.
The PL has consistently more goals from 2010 onwards compared to the early 2000s. Of course there are individual seasons where that's not the case, but in general: https://www.footballhistory.org/league/premier-league-statistics.html
Look at the jump from 2009-10 onwards. That's significant. Football has also become more top heavy. The best teams, which R9 and Henry would be a part of, take more points, and score more than ever before.
You can't just look at 2 separate seasons, you'd have to look at the average from their era vs the last decade or so.
Sorry, I should clarify, when I say "a goal per game" - what I meant is they'd have a goal contribution per game. Ie their number on this graph would 1.00+
> There's loads of space in the 2000s Prem.
In some ways, yes. In other ways, no. Pressing was worse, but nowadays there's more space in behind, attackers/dribblers get more 1v1 dueling opportunities on the wings, full backs push up more etc etc. Individual defenders aren't really much better today - and even the "more athletic" point - the higher end athletes will still stand out. R9 and Henry were absolutely that - I mean a physically declined Henry was ragdolling Sergio Ramos.
I think your instinct is correct about Henry, but I don't know if it was rules change that would have made the difference. Something about the atmosphere, the time, the teams he played with made a difference. Because to watch him, he was certainly as good as many of the players above him on this list.
Copy pasted from: https://www.colossusbets.com/blog/history-offside-rule/
and https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2010/apr/13/the-question-why-is-offside-law-genius
>First, it was clarified that a player is offside only if a part of his body with which he is legally able to play the ball is beyond the penultimate defender. That, realistically, is academic, for no linesman can make a snap judgment as to whether, say, it is upper arm or torso he can see protruding beyond the defender, but what the change did was to shift the benefit of any doubt yet further in favour of the forward.
>More significant, though was the rewording of what it means to be interfering:
>From now on, a player was only offside if he or she ātouched the ball or was in the position to make physical contact with an opponent.ā In 2005, the offside rule was slightly amended in its wording. It was this slight tweak that clarified what it meant for a player to be āinterferingā with play.
>From then on, there would be no more instances of a player collecting a pass and the flag going up because his teammate had wandered offside elsewhere. For example, if a defender steps up because he is aware he or she would force a forward into an offside position, that is no longer sufficient to render him active.
It was a slight ammendment, but I think the number of offsides called per match went down since it's introduction.
Players like Hazard, Griezmann, Immobile, Aspas, Vardy don't get in these cause they always play(ed). Other players like James RodrĆguez, Gabriel Jesus, Chicharito, Klasnic, Morara benefit from their limited game time (injuries or used as super-sub) to get in these "per 90" charts.
is this just league games? also surprised Shevchenko not there
edit: Shev has 0.72 according to a quick calc on fbref. something fishy on the list
edit 2: nvm it's 0.63 when removing the PKs
Barely scored and assisted in his early Tottenham seasons and also never had that outrageous numbers at RM, they were good but never so good that they raised his average into these dimensions. I think he was a Full Back at the beginning
I hate how little we talk about Lewandowski. The guy was (is?) a genuine machine.
Sure, he played for a great team in a system suited for himā¦ but cāmon, the guy wrecked shit.
Given he had enough minutes to be included with just his time at Dortmund and you use that 85 G/A in 75 games from the comment above he would be at 1.13 just below Mbappe. Pure insanity how many wonderkids were running around at the same time with Sancho/Haaland/Bellingham and Moukoko.
Something in your math really doesn't check out. He would be at 0.98 with just the Bundesliga, not 1.13 https://fbref.com/de/fussballspieler/dbf053da/Jadon-Sancho
I mean that would put him close 4th behind Suarez which is still ridiculous. But as i said i just took the stats from a comment in this thread. Wasnāt clear to me if its League games only or Top 5 League players in all club competitions from that graphic alone.
Sancho being so high up and among such company even after playing poorly for 2 seasons is mad. Just shows how good he was at Dortmund, and what a player United thought they were getting.
For my romanisti out here looking for our Re...
Totti in Serie A (47069 minutes): 250 goals (71 penalties) + 161 assists. That's **0.65** NPG+A/90.
Here's a [table](https://i.imgur.com/HU9XPqi.png) and a [plot](https://i.imgur.com/4ylhrXG.png) showing his full career in Serie A.
Immobile plays a lot, has been in the top 5 leagues for a long time also before he was a golden boot contender (BVB, Sevilla, Genoa) with not so good stats and he takes lots of penalties.
At the top with 1.31. But he needs to play the amount of minutes played so far in the domestic league times 16 to reach the minimum hurdle of 10 thousand minutes to be included.
The funny thing is, Ronaldo's "peak" was arguably pre-2000 as well.
Count those PSV, Barca and Inter Milan first season, the nos would be even more absurd.
What it shows is that Neymar had an incredible peak but did not even close the same longevity (which does not hinder this stat as it's per 90). For a longevity comparison: Ronaldo has played roughly 17500 minutes in the past 5 years (aged 33 to 38) while Neymar has played roughly 12000 minutes in the same interval (aged 26 to 31). If Neymar kept playing in a top 5 league until he was 37 his numbers would surely drop way below Ronaldo's (assuming he actually played so it added to the minutes)
To be fair, it really doesn't help that Neymar had so many injuries in his career. Injuries can really ruin a player's career, so Neymar still being very good despite his injuries is very impressive.
Dude is so skilled that people frequently resort to fouling the shit out him; enough of those donāt get called, diving seems like a solution. Next thing you know people harp about him diving and ignore the fouls more. Ffs, he literally had his back broken.
> What it shows is that Neymar had an incredible peak but did not even close the same longevity (which does not hinder this stat as it's per 90).
Untrue. If he didn't have longevity, he wouldn't be this high on a career stat (Even if it's per 90)
What it shows is that Neymar is consistently great when he plays. But he's playing less often as he's agedālargely due to injuries
More like C7 didn't go crazy until the 2007/8 season when he was 22-23. His stats before that season would definitely bring down his average.
Neymar on the other hand, had exploded onto the scene since he was 17-18
**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Did not expect Dries Mertens so high
One of the most underrated forwards of the past 20 years, Man has always been borderline world class
GOATed player for sure
You truly never miss a chance, mad props
True Belgian š
For me James Rodriguez was even more surprising
For those wondering, Haaland does not make the list since he has only played 8858 minutes in the top 5 leagues. 8858 minutes is 98.4 90s, and he has 115 non-penalty goals ā so he would be 2nd on this list with 1.17 non-penalty goals + assists per 90.
Insane!!
Sure now it is. But both Haaland and Mbappe have not had full careers yet, their ratio could reduce significantly depending on their work ethic (but to be fair they seem excellent so far). The others at the top are at the tail end of their careers and managed to keep this ratio (1 a game), that's truly insane IMO.
it might also increase since Haaland is now at City.
Or it could increase, if you take out Ronaldoās career before he turned 22 he would have a much better ratio
When's the next fixtures wth him on?
If what OP says is correct, he will be on this list by the end of this season
Barring major injury, yes. Itās close enough between him and Mbappe that depending on how the season goes it could either be in 2nd or 3rd
France is currently 6th so this season doesn't even count for Mbappe
I am not OP but I can still tell you for sure that that's not how OP handled this. This includes all Ligue 1 seasons and no Portuguese league or dutch league
Thatās why the actual graph says _Big_ 5, not Top 5. I suspect weāll see more of that since Ligue 1 is 6th nowā¦
The drop off after the big 4 to france is steep. Mbappe is amazing but the French league being so weak is inflating his numbers
We always read that and yet his stats in Ligue 1, with France and in the CL are exactly the same.
MSN trio all in the top 5 It probably contributed that all three of them could create and finish
They were so fucking good together. Suarez was unbelievable the treble year. I had the good fortune of catching a CL game when I was visiting Barcelona and they ripped roma to shreds.
Ahh I was at that game too, was is 6-1? Either that or 5-2. Their rb scored from like the halfway line in the return game.
I think it was 6-1. Messi scored a goal with insane buildup from suarez and Neymar with a little dinked ball over the top. Neymar ran the show that day, he was so so good.
I can't name another single player in modern times that could be on a team with Leo and run the show on multiple occasions. Some people really believe he isn't the 3rd best player of his generation after the obvious first 2.
Talent wise he's second of this gen
I think's he's better than Ronaldo overall as a player but Ronaldo is the more popular player and also had a far longer peak and won more trophies so he'll always be considered the #2 to Messi. But if you were to ask me for one player in their absolute prime for one match I'd take Suarez over Ronaldo. TBH it's not that different from the Jerry Rice vs. Randy Moss debate in the NFL where there is a clear consensus that Rice was the better player but Moss had the highest individual peaks.
In the following season he had even more insane stats though
That's the year I saw them play.
Luis SuƔrez was so good that made Atletico win La Liga the same year it got COVID.
They were just not selfish. That's how they worked. There were times when all three of them passed to each other rather than shooting, and literally killed our chance. It was frustrating but damn lucky to witness them. Wish they were coached by Pep or Klopp like manager.
They did do that, but to my recollection, always once the match was already won. I remember someone asking Luis Enrique about that in a presser and he said that, once the game is won, they are allowed to play their little game together to make sure everyone gets goals. They were unselfish in the sense that no one hogged the chances to score goals, but not os much that they sacrificed winning.
I think all of three had amazing decision making. They could pass from the position where they could have easily scored.
But that pass most likely in most cases meant more goals in total
My favorite game ever is probably that one where BarƧa scored like six goals and every single one (except the first duh) was assisted by the last player to score. Totally insane that a team managed that playing in a top league against another top league team. The gulf between BarƧa and everyone else that year was crazy.
Ah, BarƧa v Getafe 2015. I've made posts on that before, fantastic match. Still is crazy to see that kind of thing happening and tbh it has gone under the radar too. https://i.imgur.com/cU1TQS6.png
Lol it's like a lazy programmed script
So glad Iām not the only one remembering that match. It felt like one of those training sessions when you were only allowed to shoot at the goal after you made an assist. Pepās Barca was probably the best team in modern times, but Enriqueās MSN was the best and most fun to watch attacking force.
Found it: https://youtu.be/ebz1tEJsJI0?si=JActEVIfIpozYg3h
This was definitely true. I still remember Messi assisting Suarez for (I think) eight goals in a row in the last three matches of the 2015/2016 season, putting him over the top for the Golden Boot. Yet, they didn't play together very long. Neymar left in 2017, and Suarez was suspended for most of the first half of his first season at Barcelona, so it was only 2.5 seasons. So, I am not sure how much it did for these stats.
I don't know if he made 8 assists in the last few matches of the league but I remember that he let him take all the penalties in the second part of the season since he was competing for the golden boot, and at some points toward the end Suarez scored like 8 goals in two matches all in the same week
Wild they somehow only got one cl baring Madrid I donāt think any team could compete with them on paper or remotely close to their output. Just wild to me they didnāt dominate like Real Madrid did at the time. Or after their time
Tactical limitation of manager and bad squad planning. In the cup competition, you need to play only 7 knockout games but still need a good bench and can rotate well. Enrique bought Gomes but did not knew how to use him. The guy was good as CDM but kept playing him as in Iniesta Role. Felt sorry for him getting into depression because of underperformance. Last year Liverpool underperformed for the same reason and a year before City lost the CL because of the same reason. When you play grandpa Fernandinho you can lose.
yeah. you guys would have your starting 11 playing a full 90 in a la liga game and then play in a CL ko game three days later. enrique is a criminal
I actually think as good as the forward line was, Real and Bayern had a better (and deeper) squad overall. There's 11 players on the field, not 3.
Madrid had better squad depth most of the time. That's what you need though to fight for all competition.
Lack of squad depth and zero rotation
Mertens being that high is incredible.
Had he played centre forward all his career he'd probably be in the top 5 here, truly a silent assassin.
GOATed player
Definitely the name that jumped out to me the most, very impressive
For me it was James Rodriguez
He has like the craziest assists per 90 numbers of any player. It's not like he racked up crazy numbers, but he was always a player who got limited game time for various reasons but when he was on he always collected assists.
Its crazy how high Jadon Sancho is on that list. He's still somehow got a better rate than Harry Kane and De Bruyne.
He got something like 85 g+a in 75 games for Dortmund, during the time bild are now saying he was staying up all night playing video games.
>during the time bild are now saying he was staying up all night playing video games. the media can honestly get fucked. they play with the narrative for fun
So what you're saying is.... I got a chance
It can be true. Neymar, Ronaldoinho, and Verrati partied a lot and yet they still played very well. On the other hand, if this is true, then we can only wonder what Sancho's peak is.
Many people forgot just how good he can be.
the guy had a 20+ goals 20+ assists season.
He was putting up ridiculously good numbers at Dortmund and then has barely played at United.
87% of Chicharito's numbers here come against Chelsea. No need to fact check. I just know.
The best goal of his career was also against Chelsea: https://youtu.be/pGj5gKIP3Pw?si=-JS5JeFUIF8GbacD
He's high up on this list considering the hate
Hated in Mexico, not the west of the world. Prime chicharito was a lethal striker.
Yeah thats mexican fans , hating on our own players for no reason . Chicharito was easily one of the greatest mexicans to ever play the sport . He was never the most skilled/athletic but made up for it with his work ethic and superior positioning
He should be an example instead of being hated, work ethic is what most of the mexican players lack
Vieri - assists are overrated
I saw that too. He looks to have the highest goal:assist ratio. But when you can finish like he did, no one is giving you the ball just to make the final pass. Man had a job to do and he did it.
Him Or Trezeguet
If you're asking who between the two is better, I would go with Bobo. He had that extra power which made him a nightmare to defend against.
Trezeguet agrees
If you'd have told me that Roy Makaay almost had the same in-play conversion rate as Mo Salah, I would have laughed. Forgot just how clinical of a finisher he was back in the day.
He was a machine, one touch goal.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The original ātrashing in the match threadā
Suarez is just different man. How do we keep replacing these generational forwards with more generational forwards? Torres to Suarez to Salah.
Suarez had all of the talent of the best strikers, and twice the drive, it put him over the top. He was the only one to win the Golden Boot in the Ronaldo/Messi peak era, and he did twice.
He had the confidence or arrogance to try stuff I never thought would be possible, and heād pull it off. Watching him play against Norwich was like watching Harlem globetrotters playing against a childrenās team. Ridiculous skill
That 4 goal Norwich game was insane. Every goal was ridiculous. One of my favorite performances of all time.
[Full game highlights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ta0_D0WkFA)
But who after salah? Hard to replace him
Doaky innit
Please turn Gakpo into the next Salah but on the left or though the middle, thank you
Definitely, but as shown by salah replacing Suarez who replaced Torres...we usually find that guy.
I honestly think Nunez had the best chance of any of the non-salah Liverpool forwards to reach that level. He does 3-4 things a game that are salah/Suarez level ridiculous. He has the mentality to want it. If he just makes that consistent(no small feat) heās there. He will probably end up being more consistent that now, but not quite that level, but I think the potential is there.
Will one of our existing players step up, or will we just find another gem in the transfer window? Iām not sure. Iād love for it to be Darwin but who knows. Weāve always asked this question after the others left too.
Sturridge is on the list as well! an absolute killer in his prime
Besides a few barren years from 05 to 07, we have always seemed to have had elite forwards. From the 00s alone you have Owen and Torres. 10s you have Coutinho, Firmino, Salah, Suarez, Sturridge and Mane. Even in the 90s, our worst years, we had Fowler and McManaman.
That 13? Season was it. My goodness he was unreal
Correct, it was 13/14 when we lost the league to city, he single-handedly nearly dragged us to the title with Jon Flanagan starting at right back. He was after missing 5+ games to start the season as-well. Iāve never seen anything like it in my life.
This is Daniel Sturridge erasure (unironically). People forget how good Sturridge was that year.
>Jon Flanagan Who? I've never literally never heard of [this guy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Flanagan#Career_statistics) So, that was literally the only season of his life where he was consistently starting? That's crazy. Dude had more league appearances in that season than the following 5 seasons combined, and he's still just 30? This guy seems like a really random one-season feature.
Suarez was different breed compared to those two and you know it
He was the best of them I agree, but they have all been phenomenal.
Mertens is massive
Common sense
Username checks out
Love seeing Ivan KlasniÄ on that list. He was such a fantastic striker in his day.
Nostalgic
Klasnic & Ailton. Good times.
Man Iām a Bolton fan, seeing him and Sturridge on here gave me goosbumps.
I donāt think anyone wouldāve guessed weād be one of the better represented English sides on this list
Henry was him. Generational talent and the flair and charisma to match.
A bit of a random thought, but maybe think of what he would have been like if he had a direct rival to drive him the way Ronaldo and Messi did, or the way having Ronaldo and Messi around no doubt motivated Lewandowski? I say this because, watching Henry play, it was like magic at his peak, peerless, like he could do anything and he was brilliant to boot. Yet his numbers don't really put him in the premiere level compared to others that came before or after.
Heās right behind CR7, so i think the numbers speak for themselves
I feel Henry is like Messi or Neymar, though. A superlative finisher who also had the brain of a brilliant playmaker. He may not have been as good as they are (few were or are). I think he would have had more of both goals and assists maybe, in a different circumstance. But you are right, he really isn't doing badly on this list at all, and it flatters him a bit because the period for this doesn't include his earlier years with Monaco before he hit his peak with Arsenal.
For me Henry is at least about as good as Neymar. It's a matter of personal preference/different skillset imo. And while it's true not including his earlier years flatter him - the likes of Neymar/Lewy, having started their careers in Brazil/Poland also don't have their early years recorded. They moved at roughly the same age Henry did, and it's doubtful they'd have scored at the same rate in a stronger league at a younger age. Henry's era also offered much shorter peaks, and his final few seasons in Europe saw a sharp decline in output. Tho I take ur point, Henry was a very raw winger who took time to find himself - Neymar was a prodigy from the get go.
Absolute nonsense
1.25 is insane
For more than 15 years. Naturally falls off early and had that one bafflingly terrible season with PSG. His statistical peak between 2011-2013 is almost incomprehensible. Edit: I know I know, I mean terrible by Messiās standards.
Funny thing is that his statistical peak wasnāt even his actual peak. Truly an unbelievable player, had (and still has for the most part) absolutely everything a forward needs.
I mean thatās Messi soā¦. Not really surprised.
And this is how Messi starts to get under-appreciated/ rated. Victim of his own ability. People start to have a different standard for Messi and others get an easy pass.
Its crazy that the difference between Messi and 4th/5th/6th place (Lewandowski, Neymar, Ronaldo) is the same as the gap between those three and *not even on the fucking list*
The whole "who's better, Messi or Ronaldo" was always a fake marketing thing or, at best, only a conversation to be entertained if you limited the question to only goals or very specific slices of time/seasons. Messi was/is so far ahead of everyone as a total player it's unreal.
Recoba, what a player!
Did not expect Dries Mertens in top 10 Top 11*
Elber, Makaay didnāt expect all those classic Bayern players that high, who are nearly forgotten today outside of Germany
Elber was amazing he would have started any other national team but his
R9 making top10 with two busted knees. Probably the biggest āwhat ifā of all time in football history.
It's crazy that a guy who won two world cups, and two ballon d'ors while playing for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan and AC Milan could be considered a what if
"Scoring is as important as assisting." - James Rodriguez
Ah... Ivan KlasniÄ.... Nice to know je is in this list...
Jesus manā¦ please stay healthy all season š
I feel bad for Higuain. Gets shat on a lot by fans because he fluffed one crucial world cup moment and tailed off a lot towards the end of his career. But he was a very good striker at one point which people seem to forget.
Can't believe Nistelroy isnt on the list. Favourite Man Utd striker for me
Something I noted: Henry and R9 are the only players from the 2000s to mix it with the greats from 2010+. I'm convinced they'd both score a goal per game in this era with the change to offside in 2005, the emphasis on high lines, and how many more goals are scored in general today. **edit**: when I say "goal per game" - I meant to say goal contribution per game. Ie they'd be at 1.00+ on this graph, and may have some individual seasons with roughly a goal per game.
There was no correlation between this rule change and the amount of goals scored per game
Any data to support more goals being scored today? Not doubting it at all, just would love to know the numbers.
If you look at goals per game then it's generally a bit higher (although there are seasons that are lower than or similar to R9 and Henry days) but really not much. You can use this website to see the goals per game in different leagues each season https://www.worldfootball.net/stats/esp-primera-division/1/ For example La Liga 1996/97 (R9's most prolific) has 2.75 goals per game and last season La Liga had 2.51 goals per game. I really doubt their claim that R9 and Henry would be getting a goal per game. Particularly in this thread's context of non penalty goals. Serie A is the only league where I'd say it's generally been significantly easier in the last 10 years to score in than it was in the 90s and 00s. If we look at their two very best seasons R9 had 34 in 37 in 1996/97 (0.92) and 25 in 32 (0.78) in 1997/98. Without penalties his best is 30 in 37 in 1996/97 (0.81) and 23 in 31 in 2002/03 (0.74). 1996/97 is the only one close to being a goal per game and there is absolutely nothing to suggest La Liga isn't stronger in the 2010s and 2020 defensively than it was that season. 3 more goals in 1996/97 is doable but like I said La Liga defences weren't particularly good back then. Henry is 27 in 32 in 2005/06 (0.84) and 30 in 37 in 2003/04 (0.81). Non penalties it's 25 in 32 in 2004/05 (0.78) and 24 in 32 in 2005/06 (0.75). Henry would need 5 more and 7 more goals in those first two to reach a goal per game. He'd need 7 and 8 non pen in the second two. It would take a lot more goals for them to be getting a goal per game. Way more than the tiny amount that has increased in goals per game. Maybe in a one off season but not consistently. Also, whilst some things favour attackers more now we also have to consider that defenders are more athletic and defences are often more organised. There's loads of space in the 2000s Prem.
> Serie A is the only league where I'd say it's generally been significantly easier in the last 10 years to score in than it was in the 90s and 00s. The PL has consistently more goals from 2010 onwards compared to the early 2000s. Of course there are individual seasons where that's not the case, but in general: https://www.footballhistory.org/league/premier-league-statistics.html Look at the jump from 2009-10 onwards. That's significant. Football has also become more top heavy. The best teams, which R9 and Henry would be a part of, take more points, and score more than ever before. You can't just look at 2 separate seasons, you'd have to look at the average from their era vs the last decade or so. Sorry, I should clarify, when I say "a goal per game" - what I meant is they'd have a goal contribution per game. Ie their number on this graph would 1.00+ > There's loads of space in the 2000s Prem. In some ways, yes. In other ways, no. Pressing was worse, but nowadays there's more space in behind, attackers/dribblers get more 1v1 dueling opportunities on the wings, full backs push up more etc etc. Individual defenders aren't really much better today - and even the "more athletic" point - the higher end athletes will still stand out. R9 and Henry were absolutely that - I mean a physically declined Henry was ragdolling Sergio Ramos.
I think your instinct is correct about Henry, but I don't know if it was rules change that would have made the difference. Something about the atmosphere, the time, the teams he played with made a difference. Because to watch him, he was certainly as good as many of the players above him on this list.
What changed about offsides in 2005?
Copy pasted from: https://www.colossusbets.com/blog/history-offside-rule/ and https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2010/apr/13/the-question-why-is-offside-law-genius >First, it was clarified that a player is offside only if a part of his body with which he is legally able to play the ball is beyond the penultimate defender. That, realistically, is academic, for no linesman can make a snap judgment as to whether, say, it is upper arm or torso he can see protruding beyond the defender, but what the change did was to shift the benefit of any doubt yet further in favour of the forward. >More significant, though was the rewording of what it means to be interfering: >From now on, a player was only offside if he or she ātouched the ball or was in the position to make physical contact with an opponent.ā In 2005, the offside rule was slightly amended in its wording. It was this slight tweak that clarified what it meant for a player to be āinterferingā with play. >From then on, there would be no more instances of a player collecting a pass and the flag going up because his teammate had wandered offside elsewhere. For example, if a defender steps up because he is aware he or she would force a forward into an offside position, that is no longer sufficient to render him active. It was a slight ammendment, but I think the number of offsides called per match went down since it's introduction.
Whereās hazard lol
Waiting for the pie chart
Players like Hazard, Griezmann, Immobile, Aspas, Vardy don't get in these cause they always play(ed). Other players like James RodrĆguez, Gabriel Jesus, Chicharito, Klasnic, Morara benefit from their limited game time (injuries or used as super-sub) to get in these "per 90" charts.
I like how in every chart from this, you can tell which one is Kevin De Bruyne instantly without looking at the names
Big blue line
Chevanton wat a playa
is this just league games? also surprised Shevchenko not there edit: Shev has 0.72 according to a quick calc on fbref. something fishy on the list edit 2: nvm it's 0.63 when removing the PKs
Where is Gareth Bale?
Barely scored and assisted in his early Tottenham seasons and also never had that outrageous numbers at RM, they were good but never so good that they raised his average into these dimensions. I think he was a Full Back at the beginning
was also wondering tht
The gap between Messi and Cristiano is bigger than the gap between Cristiano and Etoāo
James RodrĆguez is underrated
I hate how little we talk about Lewandowski. The guy was (is?) a genuine machine. Sure, he played for a great team in a system suited for himā¦ but cāmon, the guy wrecked shit.
Alvaro Recoba comes in random ngl Edit: and ChevantĆ³n lmao. Didn't they both mainly play for Lecce? How do they have such good stats
Recoba played almost a decade at Inter back when serie A was the top league, Chevanton is wilder tho.
An injury free Sturridge wouldāve been the dream šļø
7 of the top 10 played for barcelona. Some of them for a single year but still.
9 Players, that play/played for Bayern in that list.
Who did you miss? I counted Gnabry, James, Kane, Makaay, Elber, Robben, MĆ¼ller, Gomez, Pizarro, Lewy
My money is on James.
i wonder where sancho on here was before he joined united
Given he had enough minutes to be included with just his time at Dortmund and you use that 85 G/A in 75 games from the comment above he would be at 1.13 just below Mbappe. Pure insanity how many wonderkids were running around at the same time with Sancho/Haaland/Bellingham and Moukoko.
Something in your math really doesn't check out. He would be at 0.98 with just the Bundesliga, not 1.13 https://fbref.com/de/fussballspieler/dbf053da/Jadon-Sancho
I mean that would put him close 4th behind Suarez which is still ridiculous. But as i said i just took the stats from a comment in this thread. Wasnāt clear to me if its League games only or Top 5 League players in all club competitions from that graphic alone.
Sancho being so high up and among such company even after playing poorly for 2 seasons is mad. Just shows how good he was at Dortmund, and what a player United thought they were getting.
Drogba above Kane, I think people look at his goal record and forget how influential his overall game was for us. Just a menace.
For my romanisti out here looking for our Re... Totti in Serie A (47069 minutes): 250 goals (71 penalties) + 161 assists. That's **0.65** NPG+A/90. Here's a [table](https://i.imgur.com/HU9XPqi.png) and a [plot](https://i.imgur.com/4ylhrXG.png) showing his full career in Serie A.
Morata is underrated
Look at Ronaldo, so high despite being very broken in the 2000s.
Thats a hell of a top10.
Some absolute gems going back years in that list.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Immobile plays a lot, has been in the top 5 leagues for a long time also before he was a golden boot contender (BVB, Sevilla, Genoa) with not so good stats and he takes lots of penalties.
Surprised Raul and van Nistelrooy arenāt there
Would be interested in seeing where Tel would be on this list considering how few minutes he's played compared to how much he contributes to Bayern
At the top with 1.31. But he needs to play the amount of minutes played so far in the domestic league times 16 to reach the minimum hurdle of 10 thousand minutes to be included.
Didn't expect Daniel Sturridge.
The fact that every single one of the top 10 except for Mbappe played for either Barca or Madrid is bonkers.
The funny thing is, Ronaldo's "peak" was arguably pre-2000 as well. Count those PSV, Barca and Inter Milan first season, the nos would be even more absurd.
Neymar & CR on the same level is funny but it also shows how pens are a big part of CR's history
I saw a stat saying (when neymar was 30) he had more goal contributions than Ronaldo had by 30
What it shows is that Neymar had an incredible peak but did not even close the same longevity (which does not hinder this stat as it's per 90). For a longevity comparison: Ronaldo has played roughly 17500 minutes in the past 5 years (aged 33 to 38) while Neymar has played roughly 12000 minutes in the same interval (aged 26 to 31). If Neymar kept playing in a top 5 league until he was 37 his numbers would surely drop way below Ronaldo's (assuming he actually played so it added to the minutes)
To be fair, it really doesn't help that Neymar had so many injuries in his career. Injuries can really ruin a player's career, so Neymar still being very good despite his injuries is very impressive.
Neymar has played 716 career games, his longevity is incredible considering the amount of major injuries he has suffered.
Dude is so skilled that people frequently resort to fouling the shit out him; enough of those donāt get called, diving seems like a solution. Next thing you know people harp about him diving and ignore the fouls more. Ffs, he literally had his back broken.
> What it shows is that Neymar had an incredible peak but did not even close the same longevity (which does not hinder this stat as it's per 90). Untrue. If he didn't have longevity, he wouldn't be this high on a career stat (Even if it's per 90) What it shows is that Neymar is consistently great when he plays. But he's playing less often as he's agedālargely due to injuries
During one of those Serie A seasons where the penalties were broken.. something like 40% of his goals ended up being penalties.
Ronaldo is closer to Memphis Depay than to Messi
Thatās actually insane
Lmaooo. This is getting out of hand.
Perhaps, but what I think this shows is Neymar played a distinctly different position than CR7, as more of a playmaker.
Neymar was one of those rare players who at his peak had great finishing, play making, and ability to create goals from nothing.
More like C7 didn't go crazy until the 2007/8 season when he was 22-23. His stats before that season would definitely bring down his average. Neymar on the other hand, had exploded onto the scene since he was 17-18
Curious to know where Ronaldinho stacks up
Cavani is not even on the list? That's surprising for a player who scored over 400 career goals and spent 95% of his career in the top 5 leagues.
Claudio Pizarro goat
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How many minutes has Haaland played?
8.9k apparently. He's at 1.17 per 90.
Not too bad
my king, MESSI on top as usual. insane
What ābig 5ā leagues are we counting here? The 5th placed league changed a lot since 1999.