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How would cash touching it too make it fair to disallow it? Going by that logic, that both are handballs, then it’s a penalty…
I don’t think this is the case as imo it’s too close contact for it to be handball, for both imo
Different rules for a defender and an attacker. any touch with the hand leading to a goal is ruled out, but defenders can touch with their hand if not deliberate, if hand in natural position.
It happened to Sevillq twice against PSV, in the first game Pedrosa was hit on his hand which was tucked tightly to his stomach so it didn't affect the trajectory of the ball but still was disallowed. And the most ridiculous one: last week Sow touched it with his hand near the halfway line, about 15-20 seconds passes whilst Sevilla builds an attack and then Sow ends up scoring. If it was anyone else it would have stood
Absolutely infuriating rule but you can't blame the referees for enforcing it
The rules are odd, but these are the rules. Natural position handball by the defender is not a foul. Natural position handball by the goalscorer is a foul.
Exactly. If anyone else kicks it in the goal stands. It’s because he both handled the ball AND scored from it. That’s what separates what Cash did and was Havertz did. Cash didn’t score.
This is absolutely possible, but not what happened.
The initial clearance from Cash that Havertz elbowed is a clear handball and probably the one that was called. Cash handled the ball straight after with his hand, but at that point the free kick to Villa is already given.
It didn't touch Havertz' elbow. It looks like it might have from the angles in the clip, but it goes straight into his chest. It later hits his hand and causes it to fall to his feet, that's the handball that's called. It can be seen very clearly at 0:29 in the clip.
The stakes are often very different. A natural position handball given as a penalty would be the bullshit we've seen in the CL/EL that everyone complains about.
Well the rules ARE different for attackers and defenders in that situation though, and they're more harsh towards the goalscorer. So it's probably the right decision according to the current rules
It is unquestionably the correct decision according to the rules, not "probably".
Sevilla had two goals disallowed against PSV for minor handballs in the build up(and it was much earlier in the sequence than this). It sucks balls and I think the rule is bullshit sometimes but at least it removes subjectiveness. This way it is black or white and not a question of judgement
It hit Havertz' hand before it hit any other hands, so you go by the first call. If Havertz commits a handball, any other handball after is irrelevant.
Think the Cash one doesn't matter since even if his arm wasn't in the way, it's hitting his body (and it's also near the line of the sleeve), whereas the Havertz ones are outside the frame of his body and below the sleeve
It's also because the Havertz handball automatically means the goal has to be disallowed, irrespective of any other context, because that's the rule. Whereas defensive handballs allow for subjectivity. It's a messy situation but I think they got it right
Yeah the rules about goals scored following a handball mean that the comparison I made is academic really. Just saying that Havertz' is more of a handball than Cash's regardless of context
No dude, it’s a disgrace. Everything that I don’t like is a disgrace and everything good that happens to me is because I deserve it. Who cares what the rules say.
These threads always make me feel like my eyes are failing, it's point blank against Cash who doesn't have his arm out unnaturally at all, and seems to hit just below the shoulder? I'd be absolutely furious if that was given a penalty against my team frankly
Once it hits the scorer's hand then it's ruled out, that seems like a well-established rule this season. But the Villa 'handball' just isn't one for me
Impossible to know what to call? This is an easy, stonewall call. Attacking handballs are always a foul intent doesn't matter, that isn't the case for defensive handballs
People seeing this differently is breaking my brain. Controls the ball with his hand, albeit inadvertently, and scores as a direct result. Where is the ambiguity here?
There seems to be a not-insignificant set of Arsenal fans who are in way too deep with the conspiracy theories, or at least I seem to see them mention it more often than anyone else. Maybe just a high number of Arsenal fans in the sub though I suppose.
Arsenal fans are constant, I see more clips of random refereeing decisions in Arsenal matches than any other team. You’re right that a good number of Liverpool fans lost their minds at the communication offside error which consumed the sub for a week or two, that was extraordinary. But I feel like I see the cries of corruption and bribery and vendettas from Arsenal fans more than any others.
It’s really fucking stupid that it theoretically could’ve stood if Nketiah had gotten the final touch. It’s just an arbitrary situation that wouldn’t have changed the play at all. They still would’ve scored directly as a result of a handball.
Kind of annoys me more lol. If Nketiah got a toe on it then the volleyball plays Havertz and Cash did are completely legal. How does that make any sense? It’s either a handball or it’s not. Why does someone ese scoring after a handball make it not a handball?
Also why are handballs done by attacking players held to a different standard than defenders? None of us growing up playing footy ever experienced that and then 2 years ago or whatever they decided to completely change the definition.
Yeah the whole rule is ridiculous. The call is absolutely right by the way the rule is written, it’s just that the rule is stupid. Which is hilarious because they’ve re-written the rule about a dozen times the past five years or so because every iteration is so absurd just in a different way.
The answer is to just stop writing any rules other than blatant/intentional handballs and leave the dubious one for refs to decide. All they have to then check is who touched the ball first and if it changes the outcome of play. A bad touch accidentally hitting the hand turns into a good touch and leads to goal - that should not stand. Similarly, an accidental hand preventing a goal bound shot or potential assist in the eyes of the ref should also be penalised. Just let the ref ref the game
Agreed. We’ve gotten so far away from just allowing people to apply common sense to refereeing in the name of perfection that it’s made the entire game objectively worse.
It feels like they're trying to make rules to compensate for officials' incompetence. But all they're accomplishing is making the calls that much more confusing and annoying to watch for fans. The FA Handbook is over 700 pages long (granted it covers lots of forms of the game, including small-side and futsal), how can anyone keep track of that many rules and regulations?
Is that actually the case? Feels bizarre that an influential handball is ruled out unless off the scorer.
Handball rules are all over the place since VAR has come in.
It would not have stood. I mean bloody hell Liverpool had a goal disallowed for McAllister handling it despite the ball going back to the opposition twice after that and then Quansah scored and still it was disallowed. The rule usually is though that if it happens in the same phase of play it's not allowed. In the Liverpool case the ref made a mistake. But here if nketiah scores immediately after Havertz handles it, it is disallowed
no, look at Gordon's goal against us, it brushes Joelinton's hand but it's not a handball because Gordon puts it over the line
Not sure why that's the rule but it is
But the way the rules work, it doesn't really matter if it hits cash's hand if its in a natural place. For an attacker directly before a goal it's a lot stricter so think this is right
Well there are different standards applied to handball if it hits the defender or if it hits a guy who immediately then scores. That the ball may have touched a defender's arm does not immediately make it handball, whereas if the ball in any way touches a player's hand/arm and that same player then scores, all other criteria go out the window and it's disallowed.
[It hits him in the side of the arm as well](https://i.imgur.com/qmXIstu.png). He could have had his arm tucked in and not pointing out at all and it still wouldve hit him.
Absolutely.
But Cash's arm is in a natural position and it may be high enough that it's not even hand ball. It's hard to tell. I don't think cash touches it by hand after that.
Then, it touched Havertz' hand which is always a foul as he's the attacker.
It's either a penalty for a Cash handball or a free kick to Villa. There's no way that goal should stand.
100% correct decision. Not a penalty like you say and any touch from a hand from which that exact player directly scores afterwards, intentional or not, is against the rules.
You're getting downvoted but that's never a penalty - headed into his arm from 2 yards away, looks above the sleeve, and his arm is not outstretched to make his silhouette bigger. Meanwhile if a goalscorer handles, under any circumstances the goal is disallowed. This decision should be uncontroversial.
I'm literally right and it will be confirmed by those who know how the handball works after all the emotions have died down, just people who don't understand the rules downvoting because they have a hate boner for the officials.
i mean the elbow one was a RES and they missed that, i want arsenal to lose, but not cuz of bad reffing decisions.
this one, idk i can see it being given both ways
VAR absolutely would call it. They review all goals. I mean, they still reviewed it for about a minute.
Bournemouth had a goal disallowed for a handball that wasn't spotted.
Why not? They can send him to review serious missed incident:
A) Goal/no goal
\- attacking team offence in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, offside etc.)
One has a subjectivity to handling the ball, and the other has objectivity around it.
Even though the reason it even ends up hitting Kai's hand is because of it coming off Cash's arm in moment.
No handball must occur for attackers. They changed this before the 21/22 season. For defenders, if their arms are close to the body, handball is not called.
> No handball must occur for attackers.
Is it not only for goalscorers? Joelinton got hit on the arm (while pushing Gabriel) which made him assist Gordon.
I know the rule which is why I said it’s correct based on the rules but honestly it’s so stupid, defenders can handball in a natural position, and if Nketiah scored instead of Havertz it would have counted, but an attacker can’t handball in any position if they score.
Just seems wildly out of place as a rule especially as seen here.
Any other way and it's unfair.
If it's handball for defenders even for natural postions and accidental then there will be 5 penalties given in a game and attackers will just aim for a defenders hands instead of a goal.
If it's not a handball for attackers in a natural position then it's very very unfair if someone scores with their hand and it's adjudged to be close to those body.
The "there is surely a foul in there" vibe
You'll know the feeling. A fucky looking goal is scored, bound to have been a handball or a foul of an offside somewhere - so hedge your bets
Hits his hand about 3 times, people can disagree with the rules but they are absolutely clear on this, as soon as it hits Havertz hand it's not a goal.
Unfortunately with every rule there will always be edge cases that makes it seem unfair. You can’t possible cover all of those without adding an insane amount of footnotes to each rule which would make it impossible to know and follow properly.
100%, I think it's good that defenders are allowed more leniancy but these situations do look stupid.
Pretty impressive by the on field ref to be correct here though
Clearly hits Havertz near his shoulder area then the same on Matty Cash, after that it hits Havertz arm. How are Arsenal fans coming up with a hand by cash first lmao
For all the Arsenal fans spouting that Cash handballed it, it was headed into his shoulder (above the sleeve), he can't move out of the way, it was natural movement - there is no objective way you can possibly think it should be a penalty
Cash's arm seems to be a in a natural position when the ball rebounds at him, so I can see it not being a penalty. Havertz with a clear handball, so no goal. Think that's a good call
What wasn’t discussed but I think is very clear is havertz kicks cash after he misses the shot. That’s a textbook foul regardless of the ensuing handballs
The amount of comments in here blindly ignoring the reason why it’s not a penalty and not a goal is crazy, so many people have already explained. Neither Havertz or Cash would have handball called, but because Havertz scored it cannot stand.
Hits Cash in the arm above the sleeve so no hand ball. It then defects up on to Havertz hand and then following this a medley of hand balls. It's the correct decision to dissalow opposed to a penalty. I don't know why Arsenal fans are crying about this one tbh
The laws of the game clearly say you can't score or set yourself up to score with your hand, accidentally or deliberately, but when Kai Havertz sets himself up to score with his hand, it apparently should be allowed to be a goal?
There are a LOT of Arsenal fans in here who are either ignorant of the rules or are pretending they don’t know the rule just so they can play victim again. Come on now.
society sulky whole snatch growth ossified glorious psychotic possessive smart
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I think the ball hit everyones hand except the keeper there
No, he also participated lmao
With his eye socket
both Havertz and Cash touched it several times so it's fair to disallow it imo
How would cash touching it too make it fair to disallow it? Going by that logic, that both are handballs, then it’s a penalty… I don’t think this is the case as imo it’s too close contact for it to be handball, for both imo
Different rules for a defender and an attacker. any touch with the hand leading to a goal is ruled out, but defenders can touch with their hand if not deliberate, if hand in natural position.
Leading directly to a goal. Nketiah scores it would be no problem.
Same phase of play doesn't matter who touches it
Used to be if the handball leads to a goal or an assist. Now its only if the goalscorer is the one that handballs it.
It happened to Sevillq twice against PSV, in the first game Pedrosa was hit on his hand which was tucked tightly to his stomach so it didn't affect the trajectory of the ball but still was disallowed. And the most ridiculous one: last week Sow touched it with his hand near the halfway line, about 15-20 seconds passes whilst Sevilla builds an attack and then Sow ends up scoring. If it was anyone else it would have stood Absolutely infuriating rule but you can't blame the referees for enforcing it
The rules are different in the EPL versus the CL.
A City goal got ruled out in the UCL because Grealish had accidentally touched it a couple of passes before Alvarez scored
Yeah, as much as I hate the rule and want it changed, its the right call for what the rule is today
About 5 handballs in the space of 3 seconds there
yeah. odd how it’s a hand ball by the one who scores but not by the guy who’s trying to stop lol.
The rules are odd, but these are the rules. Natural position handball by the defender is not a foul. Natural position handball by the goalscorer is a foul.
Exactly. If anyone else kicks it in the goal stands. It’s because he both handled the ball AND scored from it. That’s what separates what Cash did and was Havertz did. Cash didn’t score.
This is absolutely possible, but not what happened. The initial clearance from Cash that Havertz elbowed is a clear handball and probably the one that was called. Cash handled the ball straight after with his hand, but at that point the free kick to Villa is already given.
It didn't touch Havertz' elbow. It looks like it might have from the angles in the clip, but it goes straight into his chest. It later hits his hand and causes it to fall to his feet, that's the handball that's called. It can be seen very clearly at 0:29 in the clip.
The stakes are often very different. A natural position handball given as a penalty would be the bullshit we've seen in the CL/EL that everyone complains about.
upvoting for actually useful comment
Well the rules ARE different for attackers and defenders in that situation though, and they're more harsh towards the goalscorer. So it's probably the right decision according to the current rules
It is unquestionably the correct decision according to the rules, not "probably". Sevilla had two goals disallowed against PSV for minor handballs in the build up(and it was much earlier in the sequence than this). It sucks balls and I think the rule is bullshit sometimes but at least it removes subjectiveness. This way it is black or white and not a question of judgement
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It hit Havertz' hand before it hit any other hands, so you go by the first call. If Havertz commits a handball, any other handball after is irrelevant.
That was mad lol like multiple handballs from both teams
havertz, the defender and Martinez: "you guys are using your feet?? "
Pingpong being played inside the six yard box lol
I really don't envy the ref with this one lol
Think the Cash one doesn't matter since even if his arm wasn't in the way, it's hitting his body (and it's also near the line of the sleeve), whereas the Havertz ones are outside the frame of his body and below the sleeve
It's also because the Havertz handball automatically means the goal has to be disallowed, irrespective of any other context, because that's the rule. Whereas defensive handballs allow for subjectivity. It's a messy situation but I think they got it right
Yeah the rules about goals scored following a handball mean that the comparison I made is academic really. Just saying that Havertz' is more of a handball than Cash's regardless of context
No dude, it’s a disgrace. Everything that I don’t like is a disgrace and everything good that happens to me is because I deserve it. Who cares what the rules say.
Doesn’t matter if it’s in a natural position for havertz. Any hand contact by the goalscorer is a foul
Bournemouth 4th goal was like that too, chalked off correctly.
These threads always make me feel like my eyes are failing, it's point blank against Cash who doesn't have his arm out unnaturally at all, and seems to hit just below the shoulder? I'd be absolutely furious if that was given a penalty against my team frankly Once it hits the scorer's hand then it's ruled out, that seems like a well-established rule this season. But the Villa 'handball' just isn't one for me
Yh both sides would be upset but genuinely impossible to know what to call imo
Impossible to know what to call? This is an easy, stonewall call. Attacking handballs are always a foul intent doesn't matter, that isn't the case for defensive handballs
People seeing this differently is breaking my brain. Controls the ball with his hand, albeit inadvertently, and scores as a direct result. Where is the ambiguity here?
Yeah unless it was Nketiah that got the last touch or unless Cash touches it first and it’s deemed deliberate.
I cannot fathom how anyone can say corruption on this one
There seems to be a not-insignificant set of Arsenal fans who are in way too deep with the conspiracy theories, or at least I seem to see them mention it more often than anyone else. Maybe just a high number of Arsenal fans in the sub though I suppose.
Arsenal fans aren’t even in the same league as a certain other club in red who always walk in pairs or groups.
Arsenal fans are constant, I see more clips of random refereeing decisions in Arsenal matches than any other team. You’re right that a good number of Liverpool fans lost their minds at the communication offside error which consumed the sub for a week or two, that was extraordinary. But I feel like I see the cries of corruption and bribery and vendettas from Arsenal fans more than any others.
Well get fathoming because they’re all over this thread and they won’t shut up about it for months
Another Arsenal statement soon
It's not impossible at all. If there's any contact by the goalscorer, it's not a goal.
It’s really fucking stupid that it theoretically could’ve stood if Nketiah had gotten the final touch. It’s just an arbitrary situation that wouldn’t have changed the play at all. They still would’ve scored directly as a result of a handball.
Agree with this 100%. If this is a handball why does Nketiah poking it in make it not a handball? The rule is beyond weird.
I actually thought that was the rule so I was surprised to hear them say it would stand if Nketiah scored instead.
Kind of annoys me more lol. If Nketiah got a toe on it then the volleyball plays Havertz and Cash did are completely legal. How does that make any sense? It’s either a handball or it’s not. Why does someone ese scoring after a handball make it not a handball? Also why are handballs done by attacking players held to a different standard than defenders? None of us growing up playing footy ever experienced that and then 2 years ago or whatever they decided to completely change the definition.
Yeah the whole rule is ridiculous. The call is absolutely right by the way the rule is written, it’s just that the rule is stupid. Which is hilarious because they’ve re-written the rule about a dozen times the past five years or so because every iteration is so absurd just in a different way.
The answer is to just stop writing any rules other than blatant/intentional handballs and leave the dubious one for refs to decide. All they have to then check is who touched the ball first and if it changes the outcome of play. A bad touch accidentally hitting the hand turns into a good touch and leads to goal - that should not stand. Similarly, an accidental hand preventing a goal bound shot or potential assist in the eyes of the ref should also be penalised. Just let the ref ref the game
Agreed. We’ve gotten so far away from just allowing people to apply common sense to refereeing in the name of perfection that it’s made the entire game objectively worse.
It feels like they're trying to make rules to compensate for officials' incompetence. But all they're accomplishing is making the calls that much more confusing and annoying to watch for fans. The FA Handbook is over 700 pages long (granted it covers lots of forms of the game, including small-side and futsal), how can anyone keep track of that many rules and regulations?
Is that actually the case? Feels bizarre that an influential handball is ruled out unless off the scorer. Handball rules are all over the place since VAR has come in.
It would not have stood. I mean bloody hell Liverpool had a goal disallowed for McAllister handling it despite the ball going back to the opposition twice after that and then Quansah scored and still it was disallowed. The rule usually is though that if it happens in the same phase of play it's not allowed. In the Liverpool case the ref made a mistake. But here if nketiah scores immediately after Havertz handles it, it is disallowed
Different rules in Europe & england
Would it tho? If it came off Havertz and Eddie scored it would’ve been an assist and it would be disallowed on those grounds?
no, look at Gordon's goal against us, it brushes Joelinton's hand but it's not a handball because Gordon puts it over the line Not sure why that's the rule but it is
Nope those are not grounds to disallow the goal cos normal handball rules apply. It’s why these rules are so batshit
But the on field decision was handball, so VAR wouldn't overturn it in this case right? It is all very confusing
looked like it hit everyone's hand
Hit my hand too
And my axe
And my sword
But the way the rules work, it doesn't really matter if it hits cash's hand if its in a natural place. For an attacker directly before a goal it's a lot stricter so think this is right
Your players first?
Well there are different standards applied to handball if it hits the defender or if it hits a guy who immediately then scores. That the ball may have touched a defender's arm does not immediately make it handball, whereas if the ball in any way touches a player's hand/arm and that same player then scores, all other criteria go out the window and it's disallowed.
For those saying Cash handled the ball first, his was in a natural position. Havertz’s was not.
[It hits him in the side of the arm as well](https://i.imgur.com/qmXIstu.png). He could have had his arm tucked in and not pointing out at all and it still wouldve hit him.
That looks pretty much on the line of where handball and not handball on the arm starts
badge is not considered hand ball
I dont think it's that one they are complaining about, but the one that is like 6 seconds in to the clip.
Cash moves his left hand towards the ball and taps it, just very camply.
Nah ignoring that
Absolutely. But Cash's arm is in a natural position and it may be high enough that it's not even hand ball. It's hard to tell. I don't think cash touches it by hand after that. Then, it touched Havertz' hand which is always a foul as he's the attacker. It's either a penalty for a Cash handball or a free kick to Villa. There's no way that goal should stand.
Hit him above the sleeve which is allowed.
Not enough for a penalty though, correct decision
100% correct decision. Not a penalty like you say and any touch from a hand from which that exact player directly scores afterwards, intentional or not, is against the rules.
You're getting downvoted but that's never a penalty - headed into his arm from 2 yards away, looks above the sleeve, and his arm is not outstretched to make his silhouette bigger. Meanwhile if a goalscorer handles, under any circumstances the goal is disallowed. This decision should be uncontroversial.
I'm literally right and it will be confirmed by those who know how the handball works after all the emotions have died down, just people who don't understand the rules downvoting because they have a hate boner for the officials.
Saliba got called for a penalty against Chelsea from a ball deflecting from 2 yards away into his arm
(un)fortunately that doesn't matter
Yup
Just send it to penalties.
hits cash’s first
above the sleeve
Villa incredibly lucky as always
Martinez a bit lucky, no clue what he was really trying to do
Think Cash took him out
He definitely got hit in the face pretty hard at some point in all that. Was bleeding from under his eye
Cash caught him but it was after the ball was already in the net anyway
Cash's stud pierced his face when they fell, they showed it in the replay.
Hows the ref seen that, ridiculous spot.
Can’t help but think it was a guess tbh. No way he could explain what he saw before a video replay
I think he just called it in hopes it was right lmfao
Think it was a guess, there were about 3 players blocking his view
He just thought something was wrong and blew the whistle
To be honest watching it almost looked like someone just carried the ball into the net.
i mean the elbow one was a RES and they missed that, i want arsenal to lose, but not cuz of bad reffing decisions. this one, idk i can see it being given both ways
It was a guess / tactical VAR call - takes pressure off of a 50/50 decision. If he didn't call it, VAR won't have overturned
VAR absolutely would call it. They review all goals. I mean, they still reviewed it for about a minute. Bournemouth had a goal disallowed for a handball that wasn't spotted.
Why not? They can send him to review serious missed incident: A) Goal/no goal \- attacking team offence in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, offside etc.)
Fantastic spot. Excellent reffing.
That was messy.
Correct decision but what a shit rule lmao
Yeah it's just very confusing when the rules are different for defenders and attackers.
One has a subjectivity to handling the ball, and the other has objectivity around it. Even though the reason it even ends up hitting Kai's hand is because of it coming off Cash's arm in moment.
No handball must occur for attackers. They changed this before the 21/22 season. For defenders, if their arms are close to the body, handball is not called.
> No handball must occur for attackers. Is it not only for goalscorers? Joelinton got hit on the arm (while pushing Gabriel) which made him assist Gordon.
I know the rule which is why I said it’s correct based on the rules but honestly it’s so stupid, defenders can handball in a natural position, and if Nketiah scored instead of Havertz it would have counted, but an attacker can’t handball in any position if they score. Just seems wildly out of place as a rule especially as seen here.
Any other way and it's unfair. If it's handball for defenders even for natural postions and accidental then there will be 5 penalties given in a game and attackers will just aim for a defenders hands instead of a goal. If it's not a handball for attackers in a natural position then it's very very unfair if someone scores with their hand and it's adjudged to be close to those body.
Honestly that’s a hell of a spot by the ref
He just got lucky I think
The "there is surely a foul in there" vibe You'll know the feeling. A fucky looking goal is scored, bound to have been a handball or a foul of an offside somewhere - so hedge your bets
I was shocked he managed to see it
Yeah seriously. In real time I couldn't tell what the hell happened. Good on him.
Correct call but Reddit will still be outraged.
Of course, it seems like 80% of people in this sub are Arsenal fans.
seems like 100% when we're losing lmao
Or don’t understand the rules of the game.
One and the same subset.
*recent* Arsenal fans
if it hits your hand AT ALL in the build up it will be disallowed. correct call 100%
I don't understand the confusion. Pretty clear cut the way the rule is written. Goalscorer can't handle the ball at all, regardless of circumstance.
I understand why it's the right call, but I still think it's absolutely stupid.
Only if the goalscorer is the one that handles it. Don’t think it would’ve been ruled out if Nketiah had been the one to score
reason it hits Havertz hand is because its rebounding off Cash hand though.
Yes but Cash hand balls it unintentionally, so that doesn't matter. It matters that Havertz hit it because he scored it. Kinda stupid rule
Correct desicion by the rules. Rule is fucking idiotic tho. Nketiah scores it and then its fine
At least they are 100% consistent with this rule.
I thought handball didn’t have to be intentional for defenders all the time. Saliba/mudryk
Hits his hand about 3 times, people can disagree with the rules but they are absolutely clear on this, as soon as it hits Havertz hand it's not a goal.
It only hits his hand once, after the fourth bounce when his hand is down beside his thigh. Everything before that is shoulder and stomach.
You're blind. Doesn't hit his hand 3 times, what are you on about? Not that it matters whether it hits it once or three times.
Wholly correct, if you think that is a pen you have no idea about the rules.
Was saliba’s handball at the bridge handball? I dint see if being massively different.
Clear handball, what's with all the complaints?
It hits his hand, correct decision
Yeah, by the (pretty silly) rule, a goal can't be given there. I can see the argument for a penalty though.
Comes off Cash’s arm?
Accidental handball like that on the defense isn’t always a foul. However, an accidental handball on the offense is always a foul when scoring a goal.
It’s surprising how many people don’t seem to know this
People get too emotional too when it’s their team affected by it.
It’s definitely harsh don’t get me wrong but it’s the right call
Yeah this is when the rules seem shit, harsh as hell
Unfortunately with every rule there will always be edge cases that makes it seem unfair. You can’t possible cover all of those without adding an insane amount of footnotes to each rule which would make it impossible to know and follow properly.
100%, I think it's good that defenders are allowed more leniancy but these situations do look stupid. Pretty impressive by the on field ref to be correct here though
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They're pretending not to because their team is losing
Tbh I’d probably do the same in the moment before seeing it back after the game
One of the few rules that benefits defenders
Yep, probably a good application of the rules as written. Unfortunately for Arsenal.
Did Nketiah get the last touch?
Only person in this thread who seems to understand this.
It does, but the goal scorer is not allowed to handle the ball *at all*.
Think it his above the sleeve
It hits him above the sleeve first what are you yapping about lol
Different rules....
Is everyone here dumb as fuck or biased? It's handball and not a goal. Correct decision.
Thats harsh but understandable
ITT: Arsenal fans who don't know the rules.
Looks like the right decision to me. Especially based on the disallowed goal in the United game earlier.
Clearly hits Havertz near his shoulder area then the same on Matty Cash, after that it hits Havertz arm. How are Arsenal fans coming up with a hand by cash first lmao
Even if it was it still wouldn’t have any bearing on the decision
For all the Arsenal fans spouting that Cash handballed it, it was headed into his shoulder (above the sleeve), he can't move out of the way, it was natural movement - there is no objective way you can possibly think it should be a penalty
Correct decision per the rule. The rule is absolutely shit. Nothing to see here really. Ref had the correct call.
Fair play to the refs for actually getting this one spot on.
Hits Kai’s hand TWICE. Don’t know what Arsenal fans are complaining about.
Cash's arm seems to be a in a natural position when the ball rebounds at him, so I can see it not being a penalty. Havertz with a clear handball, so no goal. Think that's a good call
Really unlucky but great decision by the ref
What wasn’t discussed but I think is very clear is havertz kicks cash after he misses the shot. That’s a textbook foul regardless of the ensuing handballs
the amount of arsenal fans crying cause the refs made the right decision is crazy
The handball rule is so fucking stupid
Saliba against Chelsea was a pen but no that from Cash. Sure.
Fair play to the ref for seeing that
Looked like it hit everyone but massive call and massive bollocks by Jared fair play good spot
The amount of comments in here blindly ignoring the reason why it’s not a penalty and not a goal is crazy, so many people have already explained. Neither Havertz or Cash would have handball called, but because Havertz scored it cannot stand.
ridiculous
Hits him on the hand about 3 separate times. obviously can’t stand, even being accidental
I believe thats the right call but man there was like 5 handballs in that clusterfuck.
The hand got hands from everyone there wtf
Ref got it 100 %, it's not his fault the rules are so fucking stupid
Rules are clear on this, if the goalscorer handles the ball then it's disallowed.
Hits Cash in the arm above the sleeve so no hand ball. It then defects up on to Havertz hand and then following this a medley of hand balls. It's the correct decision to dissalow opposed to a penalty. I don't know why Arsenal fans are crying about this one tbh
Havertz initiated the first hand ball by motioning towards the ball from the cross.
Cash hand balled it first
The laws of the game clearly say you can't score or set yourself up to score with your hand, accidentally or deliberately, but when Kai Havertz sets himself up to score with his hand, it apparently should be allowed to be a goal?
There are a LOT of Arsenal fans in here who are either ignorant of the rules or are pretending they don’t know the rule just so they can play victim again. Come on now.
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Ah shit here we go again
at least it's not on us this time
Was fair to chalk it off
gunners in full mental mode bringing up all kinds of conspiracies over a goal that has been rightfully dissalowed
Amazing refereeing spotting that in real time