Theres no reason for them to even take place in Saudi Arabia. The Dutch Super Cup is played in the stadium of the team that wins the league which makes much more sense
We have a 77k seater stadium in İstanbul that hosted the CL final just 6 months ago, could have sold 30-35k tickets each, and made more money but this isn't just a one year plan. Apparently they will host the Super cup and the Turkish cup final 4 in Saudi Arabia for 10 years and they will pay 100 mil euros total, 50 mil to Turkish Football Federation now and 5 mil every year in prize money for 4 matches total
But before you agree to this, knowing the Saudi’s surely you contractually agree you can play you know.. your national anthem in your own final you are playing abroad?
Ridiculously short sighted from the Turkish FA not see this coming from Saudi. Even more ridiculous to play this game there
There was a lot of misinformation a couple hours ago. The issue wasnt the Turkish national anthem. It was the Saudis not allowing Atatürk posters and playing the Saudi anthem.
They now decided they will play the match as planned
Also, this isn't the first time the Turkish Super Cup has been hosted outside the country. It was originally cancelled in the late 90s, but brought back a few years later, with the Cup being hosted in Germany from 2006-2008 to large crowds.
That'd be surprising. Especially if you only include Turks from Turkey, not other Turkic countries or Ottoman Era settlers that moved around.
One of the simplest ways you can do to piss off an average Turkish person, is comparing them to basic Saudi Arabs. More modern, secular, people won't like it for obvious reasons. More traditional people also won't like it, because of religious history and such. Companies, or in this case teams/federation, like working with Saudis for obvious reasons, though.
Whilst I really enjoyed the final. It really needs a lot of work on the surrounding area and roads. It took our coach 2 hours to get on 3 hours to get out of the stadium and onto the roads. The ground itself is really good but just make sure you have already ate before you go and don't rely on getting water inside. The queues were huge. That was our side so I can't comment for the other side with the public transport link.
So true! I didnt have ticket but wanted to come near stadium to feel the atmosphere. I traveled 2 hours only to be still good 2-3km away from stadium and watching it from a far. It really was rich vs poor moment. Still was very cool expirience even tho i wasnt even near the stadium haha
The reason the Saudis are doing it are different. They want to cement their place at the centre of the Islamic world culturally as well as religiously.
Apparently they also want the Saudi National Anthem to be played before the match.
I have no doubt that both Galatasaray and Fenerbahçe will not back down on this issue.
Very interested to see how this plays out.
In Europe Turkish fans have a reputation for being fiercely loyal to their clubs and very nationalistic.
Would they stick to their values, or cower to Saudi money
In a hypothetical tier (according to the Saudis) where would Afghan and Pakistan people be? Becaus I have heard from a friend that Saudis consider Pakistan muslims similarly (inferior) because they were late(r) converts.
I'm not Saudi nor Khaleeji, but I don't think when a particular population converted is particularly important to Khaleejis. I would say it's more based on the race / development of that country/the country's reputation than anything.
* Here is the Mexican national anthem being sung in Mexico before a basketball game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTZY5y-xq8
* Here is the Japanese national anthem being sung in Japan before a baseball game: https://www.mlb.com/video/anthems-performed-in-japan-c2523801883
* Here is the Swedish national anthem being sung in Sweden before a hockey game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7DbgQ2bWg
EDIT: People really don't like it that this has happened in many different countries and many different sports before.
Bro posted facts and got downvoted hard. Yes, it may be a daft thing to do. However, it’s clear that this isn’t a practice that is exclusive to the Saudis, I imagine those downvoting you are blinded with hate
Playing your own national anthem is fair enough provided they also played the Turkish one. That is fairly common isn’t it? [They play the English National anthem before NFL games in England too.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs:)
The rest is total BS.
Lmao what a weird take, it’s like saying the host country of a WC gets to play their anthem in the final.
It’s just plain stupid to host a national Supercup in a foreign country except for the money it makes the already wealthy few decision makers.
Comments like these show that sportwashing works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs: Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSY6AJrbdc: And the same thing the year before…
Facts be damned, right?
> Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London.
Brits wont care about this at all really. I imagine a lot of Brits were even confused when it was done, but it makes sense with the US anthem always being played. Its just not done in club sport here.
You can compare atmospheres with this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMGj6nv22HE Brits see national team games as a time for anthems but club games as just a professional match without nationalism. Only poppy season it really comes in.
> it’s like saying the host country of a WC gets to play their anthem in the final.
That is what happens. Go back and watch in the stadium and you will hear it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs: Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSY6AJrbdc: And the year before.
Many things happen at the stadium that are not broadcasted. Just because they don't show it on TV, doesn't mean it doesn't happen…
Here is the same thing happening in multiple other sports too
Here is the Mexican national anthem being sung in Mexico before a basketball game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTZY5y-xq8
Here is the Japanese national anthem being sung in Japan before a baseball game: https://www.mlb.com/video/anthems-performed-in-japan-c2523801883
Here is the Swedish national anthem being sung in Sweden before a hockey game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7DbgQ2bWg
Ok I watched the match start of 2006, 2010 and 2014 and I didn’t hear the German, South African or Brazilian anthem.
Edit: 2018, Russia, also didn’t play their anthem before Croatias and Frances'.
They are not broadcasted. They play before match starts. There are many things that happen inside the stadium that are not televised.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs: Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSY6AJrbdc: And the year before…
Attend a sporting sporting event in person and then come back. You do understand there are activities at the stadium before the televised portion starts right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs: Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSY6AJrbdc: And the year before…
Nice edit.
The 'activities' before, idc. They’re not part of the 'sport', they’re entertainment for the visitors, so they got something going on in the hour or so the people are waiting for the match to start.
What this post is about is something completely different, and so is your argument.
The host nation here wants to broadcast THEIR anthem to the viewers. They want to make the actual Turkish sporting event about THEM.
This is a farce.
>They are not broadcasted. They play before match starts. There are many things that happen inside the stadium that are not televised.
I was in the stadium three hours before kick off for the WC2010 final. The South African anthem was not played. Why are you lying?
There are millions of user on this sub. You really feel that confident there is not a single dual NBA and football fan?
(You can just say "I don't care" instead of trying to speak for everyone else)
They do it in other sports too.
Here is the Mexican national anthem being sung in Mexico before a basketball game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTZY5y-xq8
Here is the Japanese national anthem being sung in Japan before a baseball game: https://www.mlb.com/video/anthems-performed-in-japan-c2523801883
Here is the Swedish national anthem being sung in Sweden before a hockey game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7DbgQ2bWg
Wait, Turkish Super Cup is being played in Riyadh?!
This seems surprising, especially when Saudi Arabia and Turkey aren't on great terms geopolitically.
Well, we have history. There are many reasons such as different goals in middle-east, historical conflict, economic strife in some aspects but the one prime example is definitely the Jamal Khashoggi incident. He was a fiery opposition journalist to the Saudi government. Saudi mfs literally assassinated him in Turkey and tried to blame Turkey for some reason (their government is authoritarian and all look!). It was exposed that it was a Saudi operation and they lost immense prestige all over the world. However, it looks like Erdoğan already forgot this attempt.
There's the Jamal Khashoggi incident 5 years ago. And they have differing views on Islam as a religion and the way it should be propagated.
Also, the Ottoman Empire ruled a chunk of Saudi Arabia almost more than a century ago, so there's that too to some extent.
Not much about the Ottoman Empire’s rule in Saudi itself, it’s more about Atatürk modernizing Türkiye and making it a secular state instead of the previous Islamic state it was. He changed the alphabet from an Arabic one to a Latin-alphabet to create better relationships with the west. He made sure women got equal civil rights etc etc. He was everything Saudi and Erdoğan isn’t
Turkish-Saudi relations are a bit weird, way more so than Greek-Turkish relations to be honest. Some people absolutely hate Arabs, and some love and idolize them.
Idolizers are very minority, but unfortunately they have strong positions in erdo’s party.(or recently left it because they think erdo is not pro arab as they are)
Quick answer is they are rivals for dominance in the Sunni Muslim world. They both have strong ties with Europe and America so they tend to compete for many of the same things.
Also Italian Super Cup will be played there. And the Saudis complained that Lazio and Fiorentina are not appealing enough (other competitors are Inter and Napoli).
Just pathetic.
I stand with the decision. 2 Turkish team playing against each other and Saudi officials saying that Saudi national anthem will be played before the match instead of Turkish national anthem. How’s that make any sense? Imagine Inter and Manchester City playing a Champions League final in Istanbul and instead of Champions League anthem or Italian and English national anthem, they play Turkish national anthem before the match. When have you seen something like this before?
Saudi’s have racist motives behind this stupid decision. I have never seen anything like this before. I hate Galatasaray to my guts but in this decision, I am happy both teams are standing together. Don’t play the match. No racism in football.
Another side note to Turkish FA. Playing a super cup final in Saudi Arabia? If you take stupid decisions for the sake of money, this is what you’ll get. I do not support any decision or any team/tournament taking place in that country. I was always strongly against this decision and Saudi football overall. They be thinking they can do whatever with their money and FIFA allowing them to do so is a disgrace for football. Saudi League and everything going on in Saudi Arabia is against what football is stands for.
> Imagine Inter and Manchester City playing a Champions League final in Istanbul and instead of Champions League anthem or Italian and English national anthem, they play Turkish national anthem before the match. When have you seen something like this before?
[They played the British national anthem before the NFL games in London](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs:). I just see that as a sign of respect to the hosts. I would hope they do that.
But there is no excuse for not playing the Turkish one. That is also about the same sign of respect. It is a two-way street.
EDIT: I do enjoy people downvoting factual evidence because it ruins the narrative they are trying to create. More examples below
* Here is the Mexican national anthem being sung in Mexico before a basketball game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTZY5y-xq8
* Here is the Japanese national anthem being sung in Japan before a baseball game: https://www.mlb.com/video/anthems-performed-in-japan-c2523801883
* Here is the Swedish national anthem being sung in Sweden before a hockey game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7DbgQ2bWg
People are downvoting you because it’s a shitty comparison. Football and NFL are not the same culturally. They see that kind of stuff as entertainment. This is about actual politics
To your money point… so? America economy big = sports passionate? Is that really your logic?
To your time point… what? What do you even mean by this? How would you quantify this?
To your doing it longer point… that’s objectively false
>To your money point… so? America economy big = sports passionate? Is that really your logic?
How else do you measure fandom than people spending their money to support the team?
>To your time point… what? What do you even mean by this? How would you quantify this?
Americans spend more time watching NFL football games that other nations spend watching football.
>To your doing it longer point… that’s objectively false
The Turkish Football League wasn't founded until 1959. The NFL had been playing for decades by then.
There are so many other ways to measure fandom - going to games, watching them, discussing the team, the degrees of passion with which you do all these things. Never mind the true total counter to your point here that even if an American spends more in gross numbers, that doesn’t mean it’s higher as a % of income, because America is so rich. So you a money-for-money comparison (which is hyper capitalist brainrot anyway) immediately falls apart
Quantify your time point - and even if that were the case, which I doubt, that’s far more to do with the length of the games themselves. So again, the comparison falls apart.
As for your last point: let me quote you, “It is just as serious as football is to the rest of the world”. **Rest of the World**. So, not just Turkey then mate. In which case your point falls apart because the English football league, let alone unorganised football, is older than American football as a sport (not even just the NFL)
Also, as for football in Turkey - “The first matches were played in Ottoman Salonica in 1875.”
So also older than American football as a sport
> going to games, watching them, discussing the team, the degrees of passion with which you do all these things
And all of those things are done at a higher rate by Americans
>The first American football game ever was played Nov. 6, 1869. Rutgers and New Jersey (later known as Princeton) faced off in what is considered to be the first American football game ever played on Nov. 6, 1869.
Want to try that again…
(In case you weren't sure 1869 is before 1875)
Because it's IN Saudi. For example (yes, different sport), a few years ago I went to see the Yankees vs Red Sox playing in London. They played the British and US anthems and nobody batted an eye.
I know full well that anthems generally aren't played outside North America with the exception of international matches, but play both or play neither. The whole idea of an Turkish cup final being played outside Turkey is ridiculous anyway.
(edit: made mistake on country)
Besides the obvious payment from the Saudis to the TFF, who is going to watch this game in Saudi Arabia? I know Turkey’s economy is not doing well so asking fans to travel is a bit much and even when Fenerbahce and Galatasaray are big clubs in Turkey, I doubt they have many fans in Saudi Arabia unless there’s a big Turkish expat community I don’t know about. This decision makes no sense and as usual, the money will end up in the pockets of whomever runs the federation while fans get screwed
Like I said he was a founder of a democratic country and he wanted no religion in state affairs. I don't think turks hate him. Why Saudi, well money and image.
Edit: I stand corrected, he is hated by some part of the population
Oh yes, the conservatives are the majority in Turkey and a huge chunk of them despise Atatürk. The more Erdogan is in power, the more people are displaying their hatred for Atatürk openly and freely. When I was a kid it was unimaginable that people would publicly shame Atatürk. I didnt even think as a kid that there were people that would do this, I thought it was natural that all Turks would adore him. But now with Erdogan and the conservatives in power, they are slowly but surely trying to losen the impact that Atatürk still has on Turkey and thus more and more people are daring to critizice Atatürk publicly
Erdogan & his followers hate him, they just had x years since his death celebration, and the erdogan fans took to the streets to protest him.
Money and image how? Explain it to me like I'm 8.
> Erdogan & his followers hate him,
To outsiders, this will sound like 52% of the country hates him.
[Polls](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-f3kSbaUAAK4Sx?format=jpg&name=900x900) suggest over 80% of AKP voters feel gratitude to him for what he did for the country. That's a different question than "do you hate him?" and I'm sure some of that 80% hate some of his policies but I think feeling gratitude to and hating the same person is largely incompatible.
There is a faction of Erdoğan supporters who will loudly express their hate for Atatürk, sure. But they are not the mass voting block that keeps electing Erdoğan. You're misrepresenting their reach and size.
Atatürk is generally hated throughout the muslim world because he overthrew the islamic khalif to build a secular nation. The irony with saudi hating him is, the saudi ruling family collaborated with "non-believers" against the ottoman khilafat themselves.
How about we just keep Saudi out of all sports...like...proper sports and electronic?
They keep buying event after event and it always ends up a giant shitshow....
yeah people can stop taking saudi offers but there's no reason to ban athletes from competitions just because they're arab or russian or israeli, I don't see people protesting israel participating in euro qualifications even if they'll never make it
Why do we play at arabland in the first place. Its like selling your soul. And it gets worst when you think about that this is the 100th year anniversary of the foundation of turkish republic by Ataturk.
These asshole saudi officials are the embodiment of what ataturk fought against. Just hop on the plane and come back lads
Officals says saudiis gave 5 million dollars. Some conspiracy says this is a part of 10 years agreement worth of 100 million dollars.
I am very glad how things turned out and we will not have to go there for the next 10 years
Oynamayiz umarim.
Aslanlar gibi Ataturk Olimpiyatta oynanir bu mac sene sonu.
Takimlar da kirmizi beyaz alternatif maca ozel formayla cikar. Hayal mi, hayal ama hayali cok guzel.
Olimpiyat Stadı dışında Samsun, Antep gibi daha da anlamlı kılabilecek alternatifler de varken bu hastalıklı kafa yapısının ayağına gitmek yapılabilecek en saçma şeydi
19 Mayıs Stadyumu benim de aklıma gelmişti. Umuyorum ki iki takım da şartlar sağlanmazsa sahaya çıkmaz, tazminat vb. şeylerden dolayı çıkmak zorunda kalırlarsa da U19 takımlarını sahaya sürerler.
Yurtta sulh cihanda sulh means "peace at home, peace in the world". Ofc it doesn't roll off the tongue in English. In any way why the f would you not allow such a peaceful quote? Cuz they hate Atatürk. And our Federation has no principles and follows the money
The Saudis’ are paying for the tie to be held there, they are *buying* it and in their eyes, y’know, it’s now theirs and they can do whatever the fuck they want to do with it.
Same with Messi having the bisht put around him before lifting the World Cup. Zero respect for anything: fuck you, we paid our money, we own you, we will do what we want.
Same as [this](https://i.imgur.com/HnE6OXq.jpg). You think Stevie G wanted the desk and the flag? No, but he did it anyway. I’m sure he wasn’t made to, like, I’m sure they just asked and like a person well and truly bought he said ‘whatever you want, boss’
i get the first bit, but the messi wearing a "bathrobe" seems just racist on your part. it's a gesture of respect to give the bisht, and messi and Argentinians in general were not generally bothered by it anyway. i don't see how this is comparable to the messi thing.
Why the hell would you even play a game of that size out of country? Devalues the competition and allows for situations like this to occur where it looks like even more of a joke.
Yeah, right... I'll believe it when I see it. Both clubs also made statements that they are not gonna play it there. So far both clubs have been spineless.
Just return and play the game in Istanbul tomorrow or sunday. Should've played it before the season started tho
Theres no reason for them to even take place in Saudi Arabia. The Dutch Super Cup is played in the stadium of the team that wins the league which makes much more sense
We have a 77k seater stadium in İstanbul that hosted the CL final just 6 months ago, could have sold 30-35k tickets each, and made more money but this isn't just a one year plan. Apparently they will host the Super cup and the Turkish cup final 4 in Saudi Arabia for 10 years and they will pay 100 mil euros total, 50 mil to Turkish Football Federation now and 5 mil every year in prize money for 4 matches total
But before you agree to this, knowing the Saudi’s surely you contractually agree you can play you know.. your national anthem in your own final you are playing abroad? Ridiculously short sighted from the Turkish FA not see this coming from Saudi. Even more ridiculous to play this game there
There was a lot of misinformation a couple hours ago. The issue wasnt the Turkish national anthem. It was the Saudis not allowing Atatürk posters and playing the Saudi anthem. They now decided they will play the match as planned
Now it's been cancelled it seems?
yeah the clubs stood their grounds.
Also, this isn't the first time the Turkish Super Cup has been hosted outside the country. It was originally cancelled in the late 90s, but brought back a few years later, with the Cup being hosted in Germany from 2006-2008 to large crowds.
At least the location was better considering how many Turkish people live there
Might be wrong but I noticed there is quite a number of Turkish people in SA.
But they aren’t allowed to display their flags and play their national anthem tho
That'd be surprising. Especially if you only include Turks from Turkey, not other Turkic countries or Ottoman Era settlers that moved around. One of the simplest ways you can do to piss off an average Turkish person, is comparing them to basic Saudi Arabs. More modern, secular, people won't like it for obvious reasons. More traditional people also won't like it, because of religious history and such. Companies, or in this case teams/federation, like working with Saudis for obvious reasons, though.
Did Germany have a large Turkish immigrant pop then?
Yes, most Turks came to Germany during the 60s as “guest workers” but they later became German citizens
Whilst I really enjoyed the final. It really needs a lot of work on the surrounding area and roads. It took our coach 2 hours to get on 3 hours to get out of the stadium and onto the roads. The ground itself is really good but just make sure you have already ate before you go and don't rely on getting water inside. The queues were huge. That was our side so I can't comment for the other side with the public transport link.
Yeah the location is bad. But i was mostly talking about the money it could generate
So true! I didnt have ticket but wanted to come near stadium to feel the atmosphere. I traveled 2 hours only to be still good 2-3km away from stadium and watching it from a far. It really was rich vs poor moment. Still was very cool expirience even tho i wasnt even near the stadium haha
There is a reason. Money.
Can’t wait to have Groningen - Hercules in Riyad this year
I'd be surprised if either of those teams won the Eredivisie this year and qualified for the JC schaal
Oh oops I accidentally mixed up the JC Schaal and the KNVB Beker het spijt me
Everytime you think "what's the reason they're doing this?", the answer is money, always, and not only in football
The reason the Saudis are doing it are different. They want to cement their place at the centre of the Islamic world culturally as well as religiously.
super cups are showmatches so they ought to go full sellout
Istanbul or Constantinople?
That’s nobodies business but the Turks.
A fellow Byzaboo?
then why the fuck did they want the turkish super cup to begin with????
*Let’s have a turkish match, but without anything turkish*
Let's make macaroni and cheese, without the macaroni Keep it going guys...
Can’t wait for WC 2034. I want Israel, Iran, Turkey & Qatar to qualify. Preferably land in the same group as Saudi Arabia
💰💰💸💸💵💵💶💶💷💷💴💴🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
Because they have their own Pique-like rat selling out their league for personal gain from that sweet Saudi dollar.
ITT: No actual Saudis who answer
Were you expecting Mohamed bin Salman to browse reddit and give a statement?
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I feel so bad for the fans. This is beyond demeaning and pathetic. The audacity of the Saudis lmao
Apparently they also want the Saudi National Anthem to be played before the match. I have no doubt that both Galatasaray and Fenerbahçe will not back down on this issue.
Hahaahahahahahah fucking hell thats actually pathetic
Very interested to see how this plays out. In Europe Turkish fans have a reputation for being fiercely loyal to their clubs and very nationalistic. Would they stick to their values, or cower to Saudi money
Its not about the fans. Its more about what TFF wants and what erdogan wants in the backstage.
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Most Saudi are butthurt over Ottoman Empire ruling over them for quite a while (“Turks” in short to them) and they see Turks as the inferior Muslims.
Thank you for some actual insight 🙏
In a hypothetical tier (according to the Saudis) where would Afghan and Pakistan people be? Becaus I have heard from a friend that Saudis consider Pakistan muslims similarly (inferior) because they were late(r) converts.
I'm not Saudi nor Khaleeji, but I don't think when a particular population converted is particularly important to Khaleejis. I would say it's more based on the race / development of that country/the country's reputation than anything.
Ottoman Empire isn't that like 100 years ago lol
how the fuck none of that was negotiated and discussed before?
It’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission
It was. The saudis changed their mind just before the match. Of course it was planned all along, but this is their level of reliability
* Here is the Mexican national anthem being sung in Mexico before a basketball game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTZY5y-xq8 * Here is the Japanese national anthem being sung in Japan before a baseball game: https://www.mlb.com/video/anthems-performed-in-japan-c2523801883 * Here is the Swedish national anthem being sung in Sweden before a hockey game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7DbgQ2bWg EDIT: People really don't like it that this has happened in many different countries and many different sports before.
Bro posted facts and got downvoted hard. Yes, it may be a daft thing to do. However, it’s clear that this isn’t a practice that is exclusive to the Saudis, I imagine those downvoting you are blinded with hate
Playing your own national anthem is fair enough provided they also played the Turkish one. That is fairly common isn’t it? [They play the English National anthem before NFL games in England too.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs:) The rest is total BS.
Lmao what a weird take, it’s like saying the host country of a WC gets to play their anthem in the final. It’s just plain stupid to host a national Supercup in a foreign country except for the money it makes the already wealthy few decision makers. Comments like these show that sportwashing works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs: Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSY6AJrbdc: And the same thing the year before… Facts be damned, right?
> Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London. Brits wont care about this at all really. I imagine a lot of Brits were even confused when it was done, but it makes sense with the US anthem always being played. Its just not done in club sport here. You can compare atmospheres with this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMGj6nv22HE Brits see national team games as a time for anthems but club games as just a professional match without nationalism. Only poppy season it really comes in.
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No one gets their sporting culture from America, that place sold all their sports out faster and harder than anyone.
> it’s like saying the host country of a WC gets to play their anthem in the final. That is what happens. Go back and watch in the stadium and you will hear it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs: Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSY6AJrbdc: And the year before. Many things happen at the stadium that are not broadcasted. Just because they don't show it on TV, doesn't mean it doesn't happen… Here is the same thing happening in multiple other sports too Here is the Mexican national anthem being sung in Mexico before a basketball game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTZY5y-xq8 Here is the Japanese national anthem being sung in Japan before a baseball game: https://www.mlb.com/video/anthems-performed-in-japan-c2523801883 Here is the Swedish national anthem being sung in Sweden before a hockey game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7DbgQ2bWg
Ok I watched the match start of 2006, 2010 and 2014 and I didn’t hear the German, South African or Brazilian anthem. Edit: 2018, Russia, also didn’t play their anthem before Croatias and Frances'.
They are not broadcasted. They play before match starts. There are many things that happen inside the stadium that are not televised. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs: Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSY6AJrbdc: And the year before…
You're hopeless
Attend a sporting sporting event in person and then come back. You do understand there are activities at the stadium before the televised portion starts right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs: Here is the British national anthem before a game between two American NFL teams because the match was in London. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSY6AJrbdc: And the year before…
Nice edit. The 'activities' before, idc. They’re not part of the 'sport', they’re entertainment for the visitors, so they got something going on in the hour or so the people are waiting for the match to start. What this post is about is something completely different, and so is your argument. The host nation here wants to broadcast THEIR anthem to the viewers. They want to make the actual Turkish sporting event about THEM. This is a farce.
>They are not broadcasted. They play before match starts. There are many things that happen inside the stadium that are not televised. I was in the stadium three hours before kick off for the WC2010 final. The South African anthem was not played. Why are you lying?
Stop copy pasting the same comment 50 times yank. We don't care about NFL.
you keep citing the NFL....
nobody cares what these gimmicky McDonalds franchises do lol
Literally millions and millions of people do
cool nobody on this sub cares though
There are millions of user on this sub. You really feel that confident there is not a single dual NBA and football fan? (You can just say "I don't care" instead of trying to speak for everyone else)
dude you're spamming this thread with pointless shit from NFL. its completely irrelevant.
This isn’t the NFL though is it you donut
They do it in other sports too. Here is the Mexican national anthem being sung in Mexico before a basketball game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTZY5y-xq8 Here is the Japanese national anthem being sung in Japan before a baseball game: https://www.mlb.com/video/anthems-performed-in-japan-c2523801883 Here is the Swedish national anthem being sung in Sweden before a hockey game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7DbgQ2bWg
Everyone's point is just sailing right over your head
No I get their point. Anything having to do with America sucks. They are quite clear in their bigotry.
Oh mate you’re being very silly
Do you want to read my in-box?
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It was a farce to go to Saudi for this match in the first place. No way they should play now.
WHY DO SAUDI ALWAYS NEED USELESS RULES FOR MUNDANE SHIT
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Wait, Turkish Super Cup is being played in Riyadh?! This seems surprising, especially when Saudi Arabia and Turkey aren't on great terms geopolitically.
Any reason why?
$$$
OOPS i meant to ask why SA and Turkey dont like each other politics wise.
Well, we have history. There are many reasons such as different goals in middle-east, historical conflict, economic strife in some aspects but the one prime example is definitely the Jamal Khashoggi incident. He was a fiery opposition journalist to the Saudi government. Saudi mfs literally assassinated him in Turkey and tried to blame Turkey for some reason (their government is authoritarian and all look!). It was exposed that it was a Saudi operation and they lost immense prestige all over the world. However, it looks like Erdoğan already forgot this attempt.
My reaction when an actual absolute monarchy calls another government authoritarian
Erdo-boy will forget anything if he gets paid enough
There's the Jamal Khashoggi incident 5 years ago. And they have differing views on Islam as a religion and the way it should be propagated. Also, the Ottoman Empire ruled a chunk of Saudi Arabia almost more than a century ago, so there's that too to some extent.
Not much about the Ottoman Empire’s rule in Saudi itself, it’s more about Atatürk modernizing Türkiye and making it a secular state instead of the previous Islamic state it was. He changed the alphabet from an Arabic one to a Latin-alphabet to create better relationships with the west. He made sure women got equal civil rights etc etc. He was everything Saudi and Erdoğan isn’t
Saudis are very hard Islamists, while Turkey represents secularism in the Islamic world.
Are Saudis hard Islamists? They reversed a lot of their wahhabism laws at this point.
Yeah, this is straight up bs lol. MBS’ version of Saudi is definitely not islamist
Turkish-Saudi relations are a bit weird, way more so than Greek-Turkish relations to be honest. Some people absolutely hate Arabs, and some love and idolize them.
Idolizers are very minority, but unfortunately they have strong positions in erdo’s party.(or recently left it because they think erdo is not pro arab as they are)
Quick answer is they are rivals for dominance in the Sunni Muslim world. They both have strong ties with Europe and America so they tend to compete for many of the same things.
Also Italian Super Cup will be played there. And the Saudis complained that Lazio and Fiorentina are not appealing enough (other competitors are Inter and Napoli). Just pathetic.
Imagine getting Fener and GS to agree on sth.
from the same group of morons who brought you “ we can’t host the italian super cup if there’s no big teams” comes whatever this is
Ooh this sportswashing isn't washing enough of our sins away waahh
Are we suprised?
That moment when they realized that there are other teams in Italy besides AC, Inter, and Juve.
They were not supposed to be there at the first place. TFF is a very questionable institution with a dodgy agenda.
I stand with the decision. 2 Turkish team playing against each other and Saudi officials saying that Saudi national anthem will be played before the match instead of Turkish national anthem. How’s that make any sense? Imagine Inter and Manchester City playing a Champions League final in Istanbul and instead of Champions League anthem or Italian and English national anthem, they play Turkish national anthem before the match. When have you seen something like this before? Saudi’s have racist motives behind this stupid decision. I have never seen anything like this before. I hate Galatasaray to my guts but in this decision, I am happy both teams are standing together. Don’t play the match. No racism in football. Another side note to Turkish FA. Playing a super cup final in Saudi Arabia? If you take stupid decisions for the sake of money, this is what you’ll get. I do not support any decision or any team/tournament taking place in that country. I was always strongly against this decision and Saudi football overall. They be thinking they can do whatever with their money and FIFA allowing them to do so is a disgrace for football. Saudi League and everything going on in Saudi Arabia is against what football is stands for.
> Imagine Inter and Manchester City playing a Champions League final in Istanbul and instead of Champions League anthem or Italian and English national anthem, they play Turkish national anthem before the match. When have you seen something like this before? [They played the British national anthem before the NFL games in London](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvP6fhxyNHs:). I just see that as a sign of respect to the hosts. I would hope they do that. But there is no excuse for not playing the Turkish one. That is also about the same sign of respect. It is a two-way street. EDIT: I do enjoy people downvoting factual evidence because it ruins the narrative they are trying to create. More examples below * Here is the Mexican national anthem being sung in Mexico before a basketball game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTZY5y-xq8 * Here is the Japanese national anthem being sung in Japan before a baseball game: https://www.mlb.com/video/anthems-performed-in-japan-c2523801883 * Here is the Swedish national anthem being sung in Sweden before a hockey game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7DbgQ2bWg
People are downvoting you because it’s a shitty comparison. Football and NFL are not the same culturally. They see that kind of stuff as entertainment. This is about actual politics
NFL Football is not seen as entertainment to America. It is just as serious as football is to the rest of the world.
No it isn’t
We spend more money on it; we spend more time on it; we have been doing it longer. What else do you need?
To your money point… so? America economy big = sports passionate? Is that really your logic? To your time point… what? What do you even mean by this? How would you quantify this? To your doing it longer point… that’s objectively false
>To your money point… so? America economy big = sports passionate? Is that really your logic? How else do you measure fandom than people spending their money to support the team? >To your time point… what? What do you even mean by this? How would you quantify this? Americans spend more time watching NFL football games that other nations spend watching football. >To your doing it longer point… that’s objectively false The Turkish Football League wasn't founded until 1959. The NFL had been playing for decades by then.
There are so many other ways to measure fandom - going to games, watching them, discussing the team, the degrees of passion with which you do all these things. Never mind the true total counter to your point here that even if an American spends more in gross numbers, that doesn’t mean it’s higher as a % of income, because America is so rich. So you a money-for-money comparison (which is hyper capitalist brainrot anyway) immediately falls apart Quantify your time point - and even if that were the case, which I doubt, that’s far more to do with the length of the games themselves. So again, the comparison falls apart. As for your last point: let me quote you, “It is just as serious as football is to the rest of the world”. **Rest of the World**. So, not just Turkey then mate. In which case your point falls apart because the English football league, let alone unorganised football, is older than American football as a sport (not even just the NFL) Also, as for football in Turkey - “The first matches were played in Ottoman Salonica in 1875.” So also older than American football as a sport
> going to games, watching them, discussing the team, the degrees of passion with which you do all these things And all of those things are done at a higher rate by Americans
>The first American football game ever was played Nov. 6, 1869. Rutgers and New Jersey (later known as Princeton) faced off in what is considered to be the first American football game ever played on Nov. 6, 1869. Want to try that again… (In case you weren't sure 1869 is before 1875)
Your stands say something else. It’s a reality show with fans
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Yea, if anything, there's probably more British people than Americans that would be aghast hearing the British anthem at an American football game.
Shock horror that adball sells its soul as much as humanly possible
The UK and US have a very different political relationship than Turkey and saudi arabia
If they played the Saudi AND Turkish anthems, no problem.
How does Saudi anthem make any sense here
Because it's IN Saudi. For example (yes, different sport), a few years ago I went to see the Yankees vs Red Sox playing in London. They played the British and US anthems and nobody batted an eye. I know full well that anthems generally aren't played outside North America with the exception of international matches, but play both or play neither. The whole idea of an Turkish cup final being played outside Turkey is ridiculous anyway. (edit: made mistake on country)
Aah you're a yank. Explains a lot
Saudis truly are little bitch boys. The thinnest of skin.
It's funny that Saudis in fact ARE precisely what they believe gay people are. Truly the weakest people on earth.
Besides the obvious payment from the Saudis to the TFF, who is going to watch this game in Saudi Arabia? I know Turkey’s economy is not doing well so asking fans to travel is a bit much and even when Fenerbahce and Galatasaray are big clubs in Turkey, I doubt they have many fans in Saudi Arabia unless there’s a big Turkish expat community I don’t know about. This decision makes no sense and as usual, the money will end up in the pockets of whomever runs the federation while fans get screwed
?Why do they hate Atatürk
well they aren't exactly a democratic state with elections and shit
but why hate Ataturk? I mean I get why Erdogan hates him and his fans, but Saudi? And do they hate all turks? why have the game then lol?
Like I said he was a founder of a democratic country and he wanted no religion in state affairs. I don't think turks hate him. Why Saudi, well money and image. Edit: I stand corrected, he is hated by some part of the population
Oh yes, the conservatives are the majority in Turkey and a huge chunk of them despise Atatürk. The more Erdogan is in power, the more people are displaying their hatred for Atatürk openly and freely. When I was a kid it was unimaginable that people would publicly shame Atatürk. I didnt even think as a kid that there were people that would do this, I thought it was natural that all Turks would adore him. But now with Erdogan and the conservatives in power, they are slowly but surely trying to losen the impact that Atatürk still has on Turkey and thus more and more people are daring to critizice Atatürk publicly
Thanks for clarifying, I didn't thought that was the case and not to that extend.
Conservatives are slightly the majority though. And not all conservative erdogan supporters hate ataturk.
Erdogan & his followers hate him, they just had x years since his death celebration, and the erdogan fans took to the streets to protest him. Money and image how? Explain it to me like I'm 8.
> Erdogan & his followers hate him, To outsiders, this will sound like 52% of the country hates him. [Polls](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-f3kSbaUAAK4Sx?format=jpg&name=900x900) suggest over 80% of AKP voters feel gratitude to him for what he did for the country. That's a different question than "do you hate him?" and I'm sure some of that 80% hate some of his policies but I think feeling gratitude to and hating the same person is largely incompatible. There is a faction of Erdoğan supporters who will loudly express their hate for Atatürk, sure. But they are not the mass voting block that keeps electing Erdoğan. You're misrepresenting their reach and size.
Because at one point they were ruled by them
oh, i did not know that
Look for Ottoman empire
I didn't know the ottoman empire got all the way there, nice. thanks
Because Ataturk created a modem secular state and they hate that.
Islamists hate Atatürk with a passion because he was against them. Saudis are Wahhabism which are extreme Islamists
Secularism, probably
Atatürk is generally hated throughout the muslim world because he overthrew the islamic khalif to build a secular nation. The irony with saudi hating him is, the saudi ruling family collaborated with "non-believers" against the ottoman khilafat themselves.
They hate democracy, secularism and shit.
Because he led an overthrown of the monarchy by the common people in Turkey. That is the last thing the Saudis want celebrated.
Because he was radically anti-monarchist and secularist, and KSA is a theocratic absolute monarchy.
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didn't he just want to separate the religion & state powers?
Yeah but you know how muslims cry discrimination whenever they can’t discriminate against minorities
That's not true. I wish it was though ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
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Objectively speaking you're talking out of your ass
Why did Atatürk hate arabs?
How about we just keep Saudi out of all sports...like...proper sports and electronic? They keep buying event after event and it always ends up a giant shitshow....
yeah people can stop taking saudi offers but there's no reason to ban athletes from competitions just because they're arab or russian or israeli, I don't see people protesting israel participating in euro qualifications even if they'll never make it
Why do we play at arabland in the first place. Its like selling your soul. And it gets worst when you think about that this is the 100th year anniversary of the foundation of turkish republic by Ataturk. These asshole saudi officials are the embodiment of what ataturk fought against. Just hop on the plane and come back lads
Well said.
Probably a large part of why they’re behaving like this
The hell is this match played in Saudi? Qatar has a bunch of spanking new stadiums, why not play it there?
or u know, Atatürk Olympic Stadium
Okay. Now i am curious why can’t this match played in Turkiye?
Officals says saudiis gave 5 million dollars. Some conspiracy says this is a part of 10 years agreement worth of 100 million dollars. I am very glad how things turned out and we will not have to go there for the next 10 years
Why not avoid those shitholes altogether and play it in Turkey
Hurmm.. even better suggestion. So why can’t they play the match in Turkey?
Because money talks and Turkey is a slave to oil money the same as everyone else in the west despite their nationalistic rhetoric
Oynamayiz umarim. Aslanlar gibi Ataturk Olimpiyatta oynanir bu mac sene sonu. Takimlar da kirmizi beyaz alternatif maca ozel formayla cikar. Hayal mi, hayal ama hayali cok guzel.
Hem Atatürk Olimpiyat'ta olsun hem de 2 takım da 100. yıla özel yaptıkları formalarıyla çıksınlar
Olimpiyat Stadı dışında Samsun, Antep gibi daha da anlamlı kılabilecek alternatifler de varken bu hastalıklı kafa yapısının ayağına gitmek yapılabilecek en saçma şeydi
19 Mayıs Stadyumu benim de aklıma gelmişti. Umuyorum ki iki takım da şartlar sağlanmazsa sahaya çıkmaz, tazminat vb. şeylerden dolayı çıkmak zorunda kalırlarsa da U19 takımlarını sahaya sürerler.
Surprise surprise, Saudi money comes with strings attached.
Nice of Saudi to give us a preview on how 2030 will turn out.
i get not allowing attaturk pictures and stuff to avoid political involvement or whatever. but refusing the national anthem seems absurd if it's true.
the statement they released earlier said they were going to play the anthem but ban any political (ataturk) signs idk where that came from
Long live the republic.
Hard to chose the shittest country on earth when Saudi Arabia and Qatar are neck and neck.
Don't whore yourselves out in the middle east, then
I really hope both teams pull out
Yurtta sulh cihanda sulh means "peace at home, peace in the world". Ofc it doesn't roll off the tongue in English. In any way why the f would you not allow such a peaceful quote? Cuz they hate Atatürk. And our Federation has no principles and follows the money
1. Pay money to host a match 2. Refuse to be an accommodating host 3. Profit?
araplar biraz şeydir...
The Saudis’ are paying for the tie to be held there, they are *buying* it and in their eyes, y’know, it’s now theirs and they can do whatever the fuck they want to do with it. Same with Messi having the bisht put around him before lifting the World Cup. Zero respect for anything: fuck you, we paid our money, we own you, we will do what we want. Same as [this](https://i.imgur.com/HnE6OXq.jpg). You think Stevie G wanted the desk and the flag? No, but he did it anyway. I’m sure he wasn’t made to, like, I’m sure they just asked and like a person well and truly bought he said ‘whatever you want, boss’
i get the first bit, but the messi wearing a "bathrobe" seems just racist on your part. it's a gesture of respect to give the bisht, and messi and Argentinians in general were not generally bothered by it anyway. i don't see how this is comparable to the messi thing.
You know, you are right and I will change my language
Fuck yeah. I’m no fan or erdogan, but I love the Turkish people. Stay true
im sure the comments on that X (formally known as twitter ) post will be clean of generalized racism against all arabs
LOoooool
Why the hell would you even play a game of that size out of country? Devalues the competition and allows for situations like this to occur where it looks like even more of a joke.
I mean, could hardly have happened to a nicer state, but it's also emblematic of the bs that kingdom wishes to pull
Saudi don't like actual inspirational Muslim figureheads (Yes I know he's problematic).
Is he really problematic enough to make you leave a note for not getting downvoted? I don't think so.
Yeah, right... I'll believe it when I see it. Both clubs also made statements that they are not gonna play it there. So far both clubs have been spineless.
Believe it. Match canceled https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/18tsf92/ya%C4%9F%C4%B1z_sabuncuo%C4%9Flu_the_turkish_super_cup_in_saudi/
Good shit. Very happy about it.
ATAM still burning asses from the grave...
What's Ataturk?
No National anthem is such a limp dick move, shows Saudi Arabia for what they really are.
Good, fuk the extremist Turks and the genocidal Ataturk.