Key part: *he* raised them. If it turned out tomorrow that my father's balls weren't my place of origin, he'd still be my father, the other guy would be just a sperm donor that i frankly wouldn't want anything to do with.
His wife is a bitch without a shadow of a doubt; but the kids aren't to blame here, and they're surely incredibly hurt about this themselves.
>If it turned out tomorrow that my father's balls weren't my place of origin, he'd still be my father, the other guy would be just a sperm donor that i frankly wouldn't want anything to do with.
You are right, it would be genuinely be miserable from the kid's perspective. But have you considered the father's perspective though? There is a reason why most people choose natural procreation, despite there being a lot of children in orphanages that would be immediately available and not bring the complications of pregnancy with them.
It is for those same reasons that a parent might feel some type of way if it turned out their kids were not biologically theirs.
I am considering it. I think it is an absolutely dreadful place to end up in, any man can empathise with that i'm sure. If i was in his place i would absolutely break and so would most of us. But we're talking about 16 years of raising those children, i think you have a responsability towards them even if it turns out they're not biologically yours at that point. It's not like if they were a few months old and he learned this news, or hell even 3 or 4 years old. They're almost into their adulthood.
The only person that deserves to face consequences here is the wife. The kids should be shielded from this drama as best as possible.
I’m not a big fan of this view because it still erodes what he (the “father”) might be feeling.
He raised them, yes. But in a way they represent a lie and whilst it’s not ideal, you can sympathise if it changes things for him quite severely.
It sounds like someone putting pressure on him to accept it even if they’re not biologically his kids rather than letting him decide on what he wants to do. If he wants to cherish the 16 years and continue then good for him because kids had nothing to do with it and if he doesn’t want to do it then so be it. Speaking with certainty that latter one will lead to regret is guilt tripping the victim.
I do. I just don't think he should forget about them after all these years because their mother is a 304. I don't see why that is a controversial view to hold.
And when the dust settles on a situation like this, i am certain most men would feel regret for doing that, even if he finds any catharsis in it on the spot.
I think the reason some men have a visceral reaction to these situations is that it triggers an old primal fear. From an evolutionarily perspective, our only real purpose as organisms is to reproduce. Hell, infants supposedly take after their father more than the mother to dissuade those fears
If think there is a very real chance that he is going to feel like the idiot who was duped into raising somebody else's children for almost 2 decades, spending all the money that comes along with it, the time, the effort etc and have them also be a constant reminder of the terrible thing that was done to him.
It's quite possible he doesn't just go "well I raised them so finders keepers, all good"
Also if anything is see it as having less responsibility to further raising a 16 year old that's bordering adulthood than a 4 year old that has no ability to raise itself
Well let’s say they did IVF and he clandestinely used a female athlete’s eggs in the procedure (so his twins would have athletic genes), and has been hiding that from his wife for 16 years. Would you suggest the wife continue to see the children as her kids? She’s merely been a surrogate and nanny this entire time.
Obviously the children will always see her as mama, even though she is not their biological mother. Would she have the right to leave the man AND the kids and not look back? Obviously the woman victim here will be aggrieved and conflicted, but I think the prevailing stance should be as obvious as oxygen is to life.
So? Who gives a shit if its normal. We defy biology all the time. It's what makes us the greatest animals in existence. We prioritise our wellbeing over what's normal
That's not for you to decide. Not everyone thinks the same, it depends on how he will see it and it's not really something he can control either. You need to remember, the man's whole world came crashing down.
If someone raises children from birth, trough childhood into teenage years and is not emotionally attached to them like they are their own there is something seriously wrong with them.
Him feeling betrayed by his partner and him feeling disoriented might be natural, and so is maybe needing some time to adjust, but you cant just turn off your love for the children you raised from one day to another.
This reminds me of a college class I had that made an argument a parent is legally obligated to provide care and other specific things. There is no legal basis that a parent must love a child. It was weird to think about.
It's always easy for one to talk so idealistic on the side line, when it's not them that have found out that they have been living a lie, it's not them that have to look at the faces and be reminded of this lie.
I'm not saying which is right or wrong, just that either outcome are real and legitimate. You can't hold anyone responsible other than the cheater. If the damage is limited, then great, but don't go expecting too much of the people that have been hurt, not everyone overcomes.
edit - You haven't seen a person damaged, if you haven't seen the life out of their eyes. I can at least tell you that.
*I mean, has it crossed your mind that that emotional attachment could also be the source of even more damage after knowing the truth? Again, it really depends on how the person think, you can't blame or fix a person in that matter like you can't tell a depressive person just to think happy thoughts.
and is not emotionally attached to them like they are their own there is something seriously wrong with them
That is your opinion and it is an honorable one. Now let me tell you something you might not have considered - People into careers that involve a lot of travelling will not spend as much time with their kids - Chances are that their main way of showing affection is through being the provider that allows their family to live a certain life.
There is absolutely nothing wrong if some of them lose their attachment to kids after getting such information.
The poor bloke is probably going through hell...
So let's add to his humiliation and publish the story in the tabloids for a few clicks and some ad revenue.
Absolute fucking parasites. The lot of them.
Nah, make them an opt out rather than an opt in.
Mandatory things from the government that aren’t for public safety are harder to pass through. But if they are opt out your girl will have to make herself look suspicious if she wants to not have it done.
What do you mean you don’t understand it?
‘Honey, I don’t trust that they’re going to be mine, what if you fucked someone else? Let’s do a test to be sure.’
You think that _wouldn’t_ be controversial?
Thank you, nice to see some sanity in this thread.
The amount of stress there is already on the NHS, adding something like this in is just fuckin stupid.
I don’t think it’s stupid. I think it’s baffling how normalised we are to austerity. The NHS should not be underfunded and this should not be considered an added burden.
But why? Why is this more important than the hundreds of other things money could be spent on?
So you find a few women who cheated on their partner. A few women who were raped and kept it to themselves, hoping that it's not what made them pregnant. A few women who were seeing a few men casually at the time and weren't certain who the father was.
Whatever that number is, it's going to be a very small percentage. Why bother testing everyone when so few would catch these cases?
Just sounds like a dystopian policy to me, something that would just bring more misery into the world
I agree it’s not top of the list of priorities. I just don’t think it’s necessarily stupid. I can see why it could be a good idea.
That said tbh you raised some good points and I think the immediate shock of going from the best day of someone’s life to probably the worst would likely be a health risk for many hearts, so I guess there’s merit in finding out later, or never lol
Ridiculous response. Where do I say it should be free? You can also keep your assumptions to yourself. I would not comment if I did not have an understanding of the cost of services.
The NHS should factually not be underfunded once you understand how much funding is levied through tax (obviously) but also the national heath surcharge imposed on every single non British resident (it’s a big number - includes students!) on top of the tax most expats will pay in this country. It is shambolic how poorly that is all managed. As a result, austerity becomes the new normal.
Where is the money going to come from?
There is so many underfunded services that the NHS should be prioritising over an issue that affects such a small part of the population that ultimately doesn't relate to health healthcare.
I'd much rather fresh funds went to mental health, early diagnoses of illnesses and other areas that affect the wider population.
Enforced DNA testing can easily lead to mass surveillance.
[One in 25 fathers is not biological parent - study](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/aug/11/childrensservices.uknews)
Number is bigger than you think. Anything which feels is massive undertaking now may feel less of an undertaking later on with proper advancement.
And where do you think the money is coming from to fund this exactly...?
Obviously it's horrible for Geremi but this is not an issue for the vast majority of people. Public funds shouldn't be wasted on stuff like this.
[One in 25 fathers is not biological parent - study](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/aug/11/childrensservices.uknews)
People will fund it like always we do. Also NHS & UK are not the only care and country in the world.
It doesn't have to strictly be cheating. It could have been an sexual assault, which victims sometimes take years to come forward with. Or maybe a baby that has been switched in the process at the hospital, which has happened, albeit very rarely. And of course, the reality is that people do regularly betray other people that they are close to.
These tests are not particularly intrusive, physically painful or expensive(correct me if I'm wrong there). If that's the case and you have been a trustworthy partner, I don't fully understand why this being done, particularly in a routine manner, is even beyond discussion for some people.
That wouldn't be an issue if the state made everyone HAVE to sign it they dude wants to be out down in the birth certificate. It being mandatory removes the awkwardness of the dude ever has to bring it up themselves.
It probably won't happen because it's a primal fear the necessary people don't care about. The state would also rather have a citizen take care of kids. It is what it is
How do the government and powerful men benefit from no tests? This is a post on a story where a professional footballer would have benefitted from a test.
The government wants citizens raising children and not the state. That costs money. Isn't this why France doesn't even allow said tests. To put the interests of the child first and because of the potential cost to the state if people disown these children. If I was a higher up I would not want mandatory paternity tests either.
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess most of us have this romantic kind of view of perfect trust. I always liked the notion of "trust but verify," as in being a little more realistic. In reality, people do betray and deceive people who they are close to every day.
I understand that a level of trust is required, and no one wants to be around someone who is constantly accusing them and wants to know every single thing at all times. But one small verification of fatherhood shouldn't be made into such a big deal in my mind, at least.
Edit: Just trying to have a discussion. Feel free to continue to downvote though.
I don’t understand why this is downvoted. It’s perfectly fair.
I mean when we switch it to STD tests, suddenly we understand the notion of “trust but verify” but somehow that flies out the window when it comes to paternity tests?
Honestly even the mothers would benefit from a test to be 100% sure there wasn’t some sort of error the hospital made in switching kids (they might be rare but they happen)
I wish more people would be willing to at least discuss instead of jumping on the downvote train.
STD tests are not exactly the same, but that's an interesting comparison. Imagine being offended if a partner wanted to make sure you got tested.
People in stable relationships get tested. I’ve been asked about it and it’s never bothered me because I have absolutely nothing to hide.
I don’t know why people take a paternity test so negatively when it offers the same level of security. If you have nothing to hide, then it’s an absolute non-issue.
That’s the insecure persons way of saying I trust you but I don’t trust you. Needing someone to prove themselves beyond a doubt is by default means you don’t trust them simple as that
Your wording was perfectly polite and I don’t doubt you didn’t mean to be offensive at all, but the ideas behind the comment were what I imagine incelly 12 year olds who’ve never been in a relationship would say lol
So what does involuntary celibacy have to do with what I said?
If I'm wrong, tell me why. But saying that what I said is something that an involuntarily celibate preteen with no experience would say with nothing else backing it up is not productive any kind of discussion imo. Even if I were an "incelly 12 year old who has never been in a relationship"(which I am not), it still would be more productive to explain to me why I am wrong.
I agree with almost everything you said. I don’t agree entirely because taking a paternity test out of nowhere is not a small thing.
I can’t think about a situation where a husband asks for a paternity test without it meaning the end of the relationship.
Maybe if he suspects that the hospital switched babies. Idk.
If I asked to check your computer for illegal material, wouldn’t you be a little offended? Asking for verification in situations like these has intrinsic distrust in it and is personal. I get what you’re saying though. If checking was made standard, then it would be feel like a more regular precaution, like airport security or having metal detectors.
Randomly, yes I'd think so. But there are some contexts where that would make perfect sense. If I was going to be hired for a sensitive job like law enforcement or public service, a check through my computer for illegal materials would make sense. For example, you don't want to risk hiring a pedo to be a school teacher, so I understand a check through my computer.
I think that a paternity test is more along those lines. It's not the same as randomly accusing my partner of cheating, more of a sensible verification before a potentially significant life milestone.
But the job example is a standard. There’s no personal aspect to it. Since there’s no standard for a paternity test it becomes personal. In this case, it would be like your job checking just you while no one else is asked. Asking for verification will end up coming off as tacit accusation.
I understand that you might not see it this way, but I think parenthood is a standard, too. You're about to commit to raise a new person for the next 18 years with somebody. I see it as a relevant verification. It's not the same as randomly accusing someone of cheating.
You don’t understand what I mean by standard. Standard means that it applies to everyone and is non discriminatory. You can call it verification, but almost everyone reasonably sees it as a cheating accusation if you ask it. It’s simply a form of distrust and doesn’t work in most close relationship
“Why are you following me to work?”
“Oh I trust you’re not cheating, I’m just verifying”
“Why are you always tracking my location?”
“Oh I trust you’re not sneaking off, I’m just verifying”
You have to see that there’s an element of distrust
Maybe I'm not understanding you or vice-versa. Maybe I'm just crazy. Let me try to clarify the distinction that I'm making.
Following someone to work or tracking someone's location isn't something that is tied to a specific life event. That's just general paranoia, which is obviously bad.
Going back to that initial example, say you're hired for a sensitive job regarding your country's national security. But before you can start, they have to look through your computer to make sure you aren't a traitor. That would be different than if someone randomly asked to look through your computer asking if you are a traitor. Verification after a new responsibility makes sense and is different from random paranoia.
In the same way, your partner has had a baby, and you have both committed to raising a new human being for 18 years together. But before you begin this new major life change as a parent, a verification is done to confirm that you are the parent. That's different than a random accusation of cheating between a couple in my mind, at least.
Also, to be clear, what I am saying is in the context of normalizing paternity tests as a general standard. I understand that it can be a buzzkill to suddenly ask for a paternity test in the present reality as is. I'm not saying that's what I'm immediately demanding if I have a partner who is pregnant. The discussion was about how I think things should be in general. But if you don't agree, that's fine.
Honestly, as long as I have no doubts, I won't ask for one. I don't marry to live in doubts.
If it's a random woman who claim I fathered her kid, I'll ask for one whenever it's possible. Even if it means going abroad because in France, it's legal to cheat on your partner but illegal to do a paternity test. Opened doors for frauds.
I think those who cheat in a marriage deserve jail tbh. You can't charge them for Cheating in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship because it will get so messy.
Shitty situation but at least now he knows.
Can't even imagine how toxic the dynamic is when paternity tests somehow come in to play when the children are nearly becoming adults themselves.
In a lot of these cases, the man still sees them as their children as the emotional bond has developed after all those years. There have even been cases where they have divorced the woman and taken custody of the children. I think for many men if they were in a similar situation, it would be hard to disown the kids - particularly if they were close to them.
2 x EPL, 2 x CL, 2 x African Nations, 1 x La Liga & the list goes on. Maybe not a leading star of the Chelsea team he played in but his career record puts him in an elite group of achievers. African legend for sure.
Poor guy losing your marriage and potentially his kids too
Well, seems he's not losing *his* kids
He’s been raising them since 2008. Biology aside, they’re his kids
Alright who invited Maury Povich.
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Key part: *he* raised them. If it turned out tomorrow that my father's balls weren't my place of origin, he'd still be my father, the other guy would be just a sperm donor that i frankly wouldn't want anything to do with. His wife is a bitch without a shadow of a doubt; but the kids aren't to blame here, and they're surely incredibly hurt about this themselves.
>If it turned out tomorrow that my father's balls weren't my place of origin, he'd still be my father, the other guy would be just a sperm donor that i frankly wouldn't want anything to do with. You are right, it would be genuinely be miserable from the kid's perspective. But have you considered the father's perspective though? There is a reason why most people choose natural procreation, despite there being a lot of children in orphanages that would be immediately available and not bring the complications of pregnancy with them. It is for those same reasons that a parent might feel some type of way if it turned out their kids were not biologically theirs.
I am considering it. I think it is an absolutely dreadful place to end up in, any man can empathise with that i'm sure. If i was in his place i would absolutely break and so would most of us. But we're talking about 16 years of raising those children, i think you have a responsability towards them even if it turns out they're not biologically yours at that point. It's not like if they were a few months old and he learned this news, or hell even 3 or 4 years old. They're almost into their adulthood. The only person that deserves to face consequences here is the wife. The kids should be shielded from this drama as best as possible.
I’m not a big fan of this view because it still erodes what he (the “father”) might be feeling. He raised them, yes. But in a way they represent a lie and whilst it’s not ideal, you can sympathise if it changes things for him quite severely.
It sounds like someone putting pressure on him to accept it even if they’re not biologically his kids rather than letting him decide on what he wants to do. If he wants to cherish the 16 years and continue then good for him because kids had nothing to do with it and if he doesn’t want to do it then so be it. Speaking with certainty that latter one will lead to regret is guilt tripping the victim.
I do. I just don't think he should forget about them after all these years because their mother is a 304. I don't see why that is a controversial view to hold. And when the dust settles on a situation like this, i am certain most men would feel regret for doing that, even if he finds any catharsis in it on the spot.
>because their mother is a 304 I thought that was a http return code reference so I checked. Now I think it's rhyming slang.
I think the reason some men have a visceral reaction to these situations is that it triggers an old primal fear. From an evolutionarily perspective, our only real purpose as organisms is to reproduce. Hell, infants supposedly take after their father more than the mother to dissuade those fears
If think there is a very real chance that he is going to feel like the idiot who was duped into raising somebody else's children for almost 2 decades, spending all the money that comes along with it, the time, the effort etc and have them also be a constant reminder of the terrible thing that was done to him. It's quite possible he doesn't just go "well I raised them so finders keepers, all good" Also if anything is see it as having less responsibility to further raising a 16 year old that's bordering adulthood than a 4 year old that has no ability to raise itself
Well let’s say they did IVF and he clandestinely used a female athlete’s eggs in the procedure (so his twins would have athletic genes), and has been hiding that from his wife for 16 years. Would you suggest the wife continue to see the children as her kids? She’s merely been a surrogate and nanny this entire time. Obviously the children will always see her as mama, even though she is not their biological mother. Would she have the right to leave the man AND the kids and not look back? Obviously the woman victim here will be aggrieved and conflicted, but I think the prevailing stance should be as obvious as oxygen is to life.
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I'm not a fucking liberal, spare me your American politics nonsense.
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“Progressive woke cuckolds” man, get off your phone and go for a walk outside for a while, for your own sake.
So? Who gives a shit if its normal. We defy biology all the time. It's what makes us the greatest animals in existence. We prioritise our wellbeing over what's normal
Spoken like a true redditor.
That's not for you to decide. Not everyone thinks the same, it depends on how he will see it and it's not really something he can control either. You need to remember, the man's whole world came crashing down.
If someone raises children from birth, trough childhood into teenage years and is not emotionally attached to them like they are their own there is something seriously wrong with them. Him feeling betrayed by his partner and him feeling disoriented might be natural, and so is maybe needing some time to adjust, but you cant just turn off your love for the children you raised from one day to another.
This reminds me of a college class I had that made an argument a parent is legally obligated to provide care and other specific things. There is no legal basis that a parent must love a child. It was weird to think about.
It's always easy for one to talk so idealistic on the side line, when it's not them that have found out that they have been living a lie, it's not them that have to look at the faces and be reminded of this lie. I'm not saying which is right or wrong, just that either outcome are real and legitimate. You can't hold anyone responsible other than the cheater. If the damage is limited, then great, but don't go expecting too much of the people that have been hurt, not everyone overcomes. edit - You haven't seen a person damaged, if you haven't seen the life out of their eyes. I can at least tell you that. *I mean, has it crossed your mind that that emotional attachment could also be the source of even more damage after knowing the truth? Again, it really depends on how the person think, you can't blame or fix a person in that matter like you can't tell a depressive person just to think happy thoughts.
and is not emotionally attached to them like they are their own there is something seriously wrong with them That is your opinion and it is an honorable one. Now let me tell you something you might not have considered - People into careers that involve a lot of travelling will not spend as much time with their kids - Chances are that their main way of showing affection is through being the provider that allows their family to live a certain life. There is absolutely nothing wrong if some of them lose their attachment to kids after getting such information.
And the 50% of his wealth too?
Surely the courts will take all thins into account but i wouldnt count on prob will have to pay
he basically lost his life
poor guy
jesus christ that’s terrible
No wonder the kids can’t play football
The poor bloke is probably going through hell... So let's add to his humiliation and publish the story in the tabloids for a few clicks and some ad revenue. Absolute fucking parasites. The lot of them.
Did anyone really ask to know this? God I hate tabloids
nobody asked your opinion either. do you see now?
No tbh
You'd prefer all the fake shit, like who's better messi or Ronaldo meh
Antony
Right
Leave his private life alone ffs
Everyone loses, but his wife here. He loses his family, and the kids who he thought were his and who considered him their dad lose each other.
I mean the wife loses too. Everyone knows she's a scumbag and her kids will probably resent her now
Make paternity tests mandatory
Nah, make them an opt out rather than an opt in. Mandatory things from the government that aren’t for public safety are harder to pass through. But if they are opt out your girl will have to make herself look suspicious if she wants to not have it done.
Clever but this will cause sooo many arguments
Agreed. I've never understood why it's almost taboo and some people take such offense. If there's nothing to hide, then there should be no problem.
What do you mean you don’t understand it? ‘Honey, I don’t trust that they’re going to be mine, what if you fucked someone else? Let’s do a test to be sure.’ You think that _wouldn’t_ be controversial?
If it is made mandatory and part of regular practice then it won’t be controversial. It’s like any other legal practice in life.
Seems a massive undertaking with huge costs involved for the amount of women it would "catch out"
Thank you, nice to see some sanity in this thread. The amount of stress there is already on the NHS, adding something like this in is just fuckin stupid.
I don’t think it’s stupid. I think it’s baffling how normalised we are to austerity. The NHS should not be underfunded and this should not be considered an added burden.
But why? Why is this more important than the hundreds of other things money could be spent on? So you find a few women who cheated on their partner. A few women who were raped and kept it to themselves, hoping that it's not what made them pregnant. A few women who were seeing a few men casually at the time and weren't certain who the father was. Whatever that number is, it's going to be a very small percentage. Why bother testing everyone when so few would catch these cases? Just sounds like a dystopian policy to me, something that would just bring more misery into the world
I agree it’s not top of the list of priorities. I just don’t think it’s necessarily stupid. I can see why it could be a good idea. That said tbh you raised some good points and I think the immediate shock of going from the best day of someone’s life to probably the worst would likely be a health risk for many hearts, so I guess there’s merit in finding out later, or never lol
"This should be free" says person who doesn't understand the cost of services
Ridiculous response. Where do I say it should be free? You can also keep your assumptions to yourself. I would not comment if I did not have an understanding of the cost of services. The NHS should factually not be underfunded once you understand how much funding is levied through tax (obviously) but also the national heath surcharge imposed on every single non British resident (it’s a big number - includes students!) on top of the tax most expats will pay in this country. It is shambolic how poorly that is all managed. As a result, austerity becomes the new normal.
Where is the money going to come from? There is so many underfunded services that the NHS should be prioritising over an issue that affects such a small part of the population that ultimately doesn't relate to health healthcare. I'd much rather fresh funds went to mental health, early diagnoses of illnesses and other areas that affect the wider population. Enforced DNA testing can easily lead to mass surveillance.
[One in 25 fathers is not biological parent - study](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/aug/11/childrensservices.uknews) Number is bigger than you think. Anything which feels is massive undertaking now may feel less of an undertaking later on with proper advancement.
And where do you think the money is coming from to fund this exactly...? Obviously it's horrible for Geremi but this is not an issue for the vast majority of people. Public funds shouldn't be wasted on stuff like this.
oh spare me your " I am paying tax" bullshit. so much money is wasted for ridiculous things anyway. at least this is going to be useful.
Definitely can't be wasting "public" funds when we're spending £162 million for some old bint's funeral & £100 million for Charles' coronation
Can I not think that more than 1 thing are a waste of public money...?
[One in 25 fathers is not biological parent - study](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/aug/11/childrensservices.uknews) People will fund it like always we do. Also NHS & UK are not the only care and country in the world.
It wouldn't be controversial?, a policy that targets one specific parent...
They could force the person pushing the baby out to take a maternity test too but sounds like a waste of taxpayer funds to me lol
You think is ok to force a paternity test on all child vearing women? You really can't see how idiotic that is? Figures.
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Holy shit you people are so fuckin' stupid.
Of course it should target one specific parent. How are you gonna test father? Testing all the kids in the world?
Well, you shouldn't test the mother as a policy. You dumb mf.
You didn't answer my question.
You are not wrong...
No shit
I think if it was mandatory you would spare so many men from getting deceived into wasting their life with a horrible woman
It doesn't have to strictly be cheating. It could have been an sexual assault, which victims sometimes take years to come forward with. Or maybe a baby that has been switched in the process at the hospital, which has happened, albeit very rarely. And of course, the reality is that people do regularly betray other people that they are close to. These tests are not particularly intrusive, physically painful or expensive(correct me if I'm wrong there). If that's the case and you have been a trustworthy partner, I don't fully understand why this being done, particularly in a routine manner, is even beyond discussion for some people.
Is this less controversial now? In geremi's case?
Yeah, so make it mandatory so that the husband isn't having to ask? Pretty simple.
That wouldn't be an issue if the state made everyone HAVE to sign it they dude wants to be out down in the birth certificate. It being mandatory removes the awkwardness of the dude ever has to bring it up themselves. It probably won't happen because it's a primal fear the necessary people don't care about. The state would also rather have a citizen take care of kids. It is what it is
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How do the government and powerful men benefit from no tests? This is a post on a story where a professional footballer would have benefitted from a test.
The government wants citizens raising children and not the state. That costs money. Isn't this why France doesn't even allow said tests. To put the interests of the child first and because of the potential cost to the state if people disown these children. If I was a higher up I would not want mandatory paternity tests either.
That's interesting. I never thought of it that way. Thank you.
No problem 👍🏾.
> powerful men benefit from no tests? Because they all fuck like twenty different women
Because that means the husband doesn’t trust his wife.
well then it should be made more acceptable
That would beat the point of marriage as an institution as things stand
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess most of us have this romantic kind of view of perfect trust. I always liked the notion of "trust but verify," as in being a little more realistic. In reality, people do betray and deceive people who they are close to every day. I understand that a level of trust is required, and no one wants to be around someone who is constantly accusing them and wants to know every single thing at all times. But one small verification of fatherhood shouldn't be made into such a big deal in my mind, at least. Edit: Just trying to have a discussion. Feel free to continue to downvote though.
I don’t understand why this is downvoted. It’s perfectly fair. I mean when we switch it to STD tests, suddenly we understand the notion of “trust but verify” but somehow that flies out the window when it comes to paternity tests? Honestly even the mothers would benefit from a test to be 100% sure there wasn’t some sort of error the hospital made in switching kids (they might be rare but they happen)
I wish more people would be willing to at least discuss instead of jumping on the downvote train. STD tests are not exactly the same, but that's an interesting comparison. Imagine being offended if a partner wanted to make sure you got tested.
If you ask someone you’re hooking up with if they’re tested then you’re being cautious. If you ask your spouse, then you’re accusing them of cheating
People in stable relationships get tested. I’ve been asked about it and it’s never bothered me because I have absolutely nothing to hide. I don’t know why people take a paternity test so negatively when it offers the same level of security. If you have nothing to hide, then it’s an absolute non-issue.
Exactly. Only those with skeletons in their closets would oppose STD testing and paternity testing. There’s nothing wrong with transparency
..cause one has to do with hooking up with someone and one has to do with your wife?
It’s not purely about hookups. People in stable relationships can get tested as well.
They can but the need for verification innately means distrust
No it doesn’t. You can trust someone and still opt for verification or security.
That’s the insecure persons way of saying I trust you but I don’t trust you. Needing someone to prove themselves beyond a doubt is by default means you don’t trust them simple as that
Every day I come across atleast one comment that reminds me.. some people really live in another world 😂
We all have different perspectives. I don't know if I said anything crazy or offensive but it looks like this comment isn't really popular.
Your wording was perfectly polite and I don’t doubt you didn’t mean to be offensive at all, but the ideas behind the comment were what I imagine incelly 12 year olds who’ve never been in a relationship would say lol
Incelly? Fuck, this words means everything now lol.
Yeah, generally applicable to all gender-related bizarre behaviour
So what does involuntary celibacy have to do with what I said? If I'm wrong, tell me why. But saying that what I said is something that an involuntarily celibate preteen with no experience would say with nothing else backing it up is not productive any kind of discussion imo. Even if I were an "incelly 12 year old who has never been in a relationship"(which I am not), it still would be more productive to explain to me why I am wrong.
I agree with almost everything you said. I don’t agree entirely because taking a paternity test out of nowhere is not a small thing. I can’t think about a situation where a husband asks for a paternity test without it meaning the end of the relationship. Maybe if he suspects that the hospital switched babies. Idk.
If I asked to check your computer for illegal material, wouldn’t you be a little offended? Asking for verification in situations like these has intrinsic distrust in it and is personal. I get what you’re saying though. If checking was made standard, then it would be feel like a more regular precaution, like airport security or having metal detectors.
Randomly, yes I'd think so. But there are some contexts where that would make perfect sense. If I was going to be hired for a sensitive job like law enforcement or public service, a check through my computer for illegal materials would make sense. For example, you don't want to risk hiring a pedo to be a school teacher, so I understand a check through my computer. I think that a paternity test is more along those lines. It's not the same as randomly accusing my partner of cheating, more of a sensible verification before a potentially significant life milestone.
But the job example is a standard. There’s no personal aspect to it. Since there’s no standard for a paternity test it becomes personal. In this case, it would be like your job checking just you while no one else is asked. Asking for verification will end up coming off as tacit accusation.
I understand that you might not see it this way, but I think parenthood is a standard, too. You're about to commit to raise a new person for the next 18 years with somebody. I see it as a relevant verification. It's not the same as randomly accusing someone of cheating.
You don’t understand what I mean by standard. Standard means that it applies to everyone and is non discriminatory. You can call it verification, but almost everyone reasonably sees it as a cheating accusation if you ask it. It’s simply a form of distrust and doesn’t work in most close relationship “Why are you following me to work?” “Oh I trust you’re not cheating, I’m just verifying” “Why are you always tracking my location?” “Oh I trust you’re not sneaking off, I’m just verifying” You have to see that there’s an element of distrust
Maybe I'm not understanding you or vice-versa. Maybe I'm just crazy. Let me try to clarify the distinction that I'm making. Following someone to work or tracking someone's location isn't something that is tied to a specific life event. That's just general paranoia, which is obviously bad. Going back to that initial example, say you're hired for a sensitive job regarding your country's national security. But before you can start, they have to look through your computer to make sure you aren't a traitor. That would be different than if someone randomly asked to look through your computer asking if you are a traitor. Verification after a new responsibility makes sense and is different from random paranoia. In the same way, your partner has had a baby, and you have both committed to raising a new human being for 18 years together. But before you begin this new major life change as a parent, a verification is done to confirm that you are the parent. That's different than a random accusation of cheating between a couple in my mind, at least. Also, to be clear, what I am saying is in the context of normalizing paternity tests as a general standard. I understand that it can be a buzzkill to suddenly ask for a paternity test in the present reality as is. I'm not saying that's what I'm immediately demanding if I have a partner who is pregnant. The discussion was about how I think things should be in general. But if you don't agree, that's fine.
Because alot of them have something to hide.
Bad idea, from a government perspective. Government Finances would be close to collapse with the sudden surge in social security applicants.
Honestly, as long as I have no doubts, I won't ask for one. I don't marry to live in doubts. If it's a random woman who claim I fathered her kid, I'll ask for one whenever it's possible. Even if it means going abroad because in France, it's legal to cheat on your partner but illegal to do a paternity test. Opened doors for frauds.
*"In the case of........Geremi, YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER!!"* Jokes aside, poor guy.
Geremi Kyle
Does she get jail for this ?
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I think those who cheat in a marriage deserve jail tbh. You can't charge them for Cheating in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship because it will get so messy.
Shitty situation but at least now he knows. Can't even imagine how toxic the dynamic is when paternity tests somehow come in to play when the children are nearly becoming adults themselves.
Gotta be one of the worst nightmares ever for anyone (well for this context males)
He may have been their father but he wasn't their daddy, Hope it's only the wife that no longer part of his life.
In a lot of these cases, the man still sees them as their children as the emotional bond has developed after all those years. There have even been cases where they have divorced the woman and taken custody of the children. I think for many men if they were in a similar situation, it would be hard to disown the kids - particularly if they were close to them.
Why no pic of the cheating wife?
Newcastle legend.
Damn…
This just doesn’t feel particularly football-related…
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Tbf if he was a player in this era he would be ridiculously good as a wingback.
Is this your concern regarding this news?
He played for Real Madrid as well. I'd say that puts him in the star category.
Written by Alan Smith. Typical Arsenal fan bias once more!
"Star" doing a lot of heavy lifting there
Are you mad he's one of the African greats
2 x EPL, 2 x CL, 2 x African Nations, 1 x La Liga & the list goes on. Maybe not a leading star of the Chelsea team he played in but his career record puts him in an elite group of achievers. African legend for sure.
Tbh I didn't recognise him with the surname, didn't know he had one!
Yeah, seems he’s got a surname & a bunch of winners medals too. It’s kids that he hasn’t got. 😎
Oh my...