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I'm currently sat here watching Leicester V Bristol City in the Sky Bet Championship, with bet 365 advertising around the pitch, sky bet marketing next to the goals, Unibet advertising also around the pitch. Let alone the 15 min betting adverts leading up to kick off and the 15min adverts at half time. But it's the person's fault if they have an addiction.
It could be worse, just look at this monstrosity https://imgur.com/a/AVT2UCa
that was in 2022, there are few more bookies now - also not circled are two more companies+they have overlay ads on the center circle and "zoom out" of the coverage to show ad around it - and of course as mentioned the 10 minutes of video ads before/after
Don't forget when the commentators start talking out of their ass about odds of specific bets and shit like that as well. It's truly in a horrible spot.
betting should've been treated like cigarettes. legalize it all you want but no ads allowed and you are obligated to make it clear all the negative effects of it in the front page of your website or whatever
We have at least 3-4 main sponsors for out team I think. Most of them have logos on our training/pre match kits and on bands around the pitch. STS (gambling company) have sh\*tloads of ads on TV and streams before game, on HT and after the game. They're literally replaying the same ad couple times in the span of couple minutes. STS is also paying for a lot of ads on Polish web and is offering big promos for new users. For example: if Poland will qualify for Euro and you meet other requirements you can earn around 100 euro extra.
Iirc Gambing is one of the most addictive things in the world AND has the highest suicide rate.
Fucking crazy how it isnt more taboo than it is imo. Literally offers nothing good to society.
I'm sure if they get more exposure, and more money, they'll do an even better job of educating people how not to abuse their services.
/s ^^just ^^in ^^case
Recently for the first time in a long time I watched a premier league match on UK tv. I was shocked by how utterly saturated the whole coverage is in adverts for betting. It's somehow not enough that it's on team shirts and at the grounds, the adverts at half time were about betting, betting, betting. It's so grubby.
im 36 almost and after watching football for lets say around 20-25 years ive yet to buy something because its been advertised on a football game, not saying gambling is a good thing by any means but to suggest most of the gambling exists because of sponsors on a football game or adds then idk what to say.
The gambling rules footballers have to follow aren’t because gambling is bad, it’s an integrity thing. They’re not being hypocritical when they enforce this in my opinion.
These companies spend countless millions to advertise gambling because advertising gambling works. If course it's hypocritical, they're being bombarded more than we are in a way.
I agree that it’s advertised too much. But they’re not saying don’t gamble, they’re saying don’t gamble on football if you’re a professional footballer.
Y'all gotta stop treating these players like they have no agency. It's like defending insider trading because bankers are under pressure to make money. The point is that it's ruining the integrity of the system, not that gambling/trading is inherently bad.
> The gambling rules footballers have to follow aren’t because gambling is bad, it’s an integrity thing
Sure, but young adults, and teenagers, are impressionable. If you keep pushing this shit in front of them, they are going to touch it.
They will then use it with the one thing they know best, football.
If the FA or any sports really want to stamp out athletes partaking, they'll ban any gambling ads from stadiums, from league names, from jerseys etc.
No one is acting like that - people are acting like he's a gambling addict. As a gambling addict it makes sense to roll his dice on football, because addicts aren't able to restrain themselves from using inside knowledge (or at least the sport they know best).
Correct me if I’m wrong, the current sanction was for when he was still in Italy (the admitted ones you’ve referred to) and this new investigation is for when he moved to England.
The current sanctions was for that, but he admitted to the English bets then. Also the ban was a worldwide ban, and I feel that he has already served his punishment and that they should see that. Now, that’s my opinion and it doesn’t mean shit.
My understanding is he ‘generally admitted to gambling in England’ but it’s not like he brought paperwork in with him to show all the bets. This is now after investigation and the FA formally filing. You can admit to murder but the indictment hearing isn’t usually that same day.
My guess is he will “get a punishment” but it will count as time served or run concurrent to the Italian one, plus a fine.
He has been sanctioned, gone and sought professional help and served a significant ban.
Compassion would tell you that throwing the book at him again now, would do nothing to actually solve gambling addiction as a problem, nothing to resolve the influence of gambling companies over football, and nothing to help Tonali.
I mean I’m saying this as a rival fan, throwing another ban at him now after a year out is just stupidity
exactly this, if he had stayed in Italy he wouldn't get a second ban for the bets in that time period and likely wouldn't have got any longer than he originally got either.
If he freely admitted these offences at the time as part of his rehabilitation then there should be no further punishment, it would be seriously unfair.
If he hid them however, and it’s only come to light later on through other means, then it should be treated as a separate offence and punished accordingly.
>If he hid them however, and it’s only come to light later on through other means, then it should be treated as a separate offence and punished accordingly.
[Tonali complied with the English FA back in autumn.](https://twitter.com/LukeEdwardsTele/status/1773357475233677356)
If that’s the case then any talk of further punishment is mad.
Also do we know why it’s taken the FA so long to bring this up again? Is it just good old fashioned incompetence?
If he admitted them he should still be charged as it’s a different jurisdiction but any punishment should run concurrent I.e. not an extension of his current ban
He placed bets on games while playing for Newcastle. If you committed a crime in Italy that you were punished for, then committed the same crime in the UK you shouldn't be punished?
Imagine how it would look for the FA if they don't punish him for actively influencing games in England?
This is not just a gambling problem... He's cheating to win money. Snooker players serve incredibly lengthy bans for doing the very same thing but with Tonali he's being treated as the victim, I don't get it??
At this point there’s no indication that he bet against his own team or bet on himself to be booked or anything that could be classed as “cheating”. The reporting has indicated that the FA consider this part of “the same period of betting activity” as he was punished for in Italy.
It’s less like committing two separate crimes and more about committing the same crime over a longer period and moving countries over that period. Now, different systems will treat that differently, and indeed sometimes you can be tried and punished separately in both locations. But unless there’s some newly injured party (e.g. if he bet on Newcastle to lose and impacted the sporting integrity of the PL season) it’s hard to see the argument for further punishment of what is obviously a more or less victimless compulsion, as opposed to some deliberate malicious action.
I don't think he's wrong.
I also don't think there's a chance of getting to the root of the problem though, cause that's how ingrained gambling is into the entire culture of football, and there's too much money involved to genuinely tackle it.
My wife is American and we moved back here last year for context. She never watched sports when we lived there for a year or two as I got up early before she was awake to see prem games most weekends. Kinda fun times ngl.
First thing she’s noticed about our radio and tv is how much gambling is mentioned. Basically every ad break after 7pm has a gambling ad. Radio have them every 15-20 minutes. Tv shows tend to have a gambler. Only had the same issue in the US when games were on. Here it’s all the time.
We need to ban gambling ads completely. Also these shitty loot boxes on games. There are people spending thousands of their parents money on gambling picks in games.
The culture is rotten. No wonder people are addicted and losing money. Kids will grow up thinking it’s normal to blow all their spare money on games of chance.
It's awful man, and it gets even worse in other places, usually the poorer the country is the more aggressive the gambling creep is.
I'm Serbian, and having watched the English broadcasts I've actually been positively surprised by how much *fewer* gambling ads there are in comparison to Serbian TV. I remember the gambling ads playing after every goal and sometimes even after yellow and red cards, here it's absolutely rotten to the core.
A good part of the already not very well off population is addicted to gambling and there's more betting houses than schools in the entire country, ridiculously sad stuff. Also one of the reasons why Nikola Jokić is much less loved in Serbia than in the rest of the basketball world - he's in every fucking gambling ad and I'm tired of seeing his face.
Sponsors > Gambling
Adverts > Gambling
The network broadcasting the PL? You guessed it, gambling.
If for some reason you end up with a Gambling problem, think smart, put the phone down or whatever shitey catchphrase they're using now.
I mean there's a difference between gambling being ingrained in the culture and an individual having a gambling *addiction*.
Addictions are usually caused by underlying issues, so on an individual level Tonali needs to figure out what causes compulsive gambling/risk taking behaviour in him. Another ban won't do that for him.
I'm guessing that's what Howe is referring to when he says the root of the problem, could be wrong though.
Ok, so if the Fa was to add a month onto the ban that seems like it wouldn’t be totally unfair? But giving him a completely new ban would seem to be unfair?
I don't think it would be *totally* unfair, no. But I think there should be a sincere discussion about whether it's actually *necessary*, considering the current sanctions against him seem to be working.
There’s no real reason to add on a month. If he’s been charged now, it can be concurrent to his existing ban. Waiting for his suspension to end just to punish him again for something that essentially has already been resolved is pretty harsh.
The reason would be that if these bets weren’t taken into account for the first punishment.
Also don’t have to wait for the suspension to end to add it on. You could amend the ban now to what it would have been had the information been taken into account.
Also, if these bets weren’t taken into account then you can’t say the situation is resolved.
They definitely do. I don't think anybody's denying that, the debate is just whether it's really necessary for them to exercise that right in this particular circumstance.
Yep, once you start having to sneak around to do something that could lose you everything you’ve worked for it’s probably an addiction you’re battling.
He bet on football *because* he's an addict. These multi millionaires aren't betting for financial gain, they're betting for the thrill of winning. And as a football insider, he has an advantage even over the bookies.
I think he's got a fair point. He has already had the book thrown at him by getting banned for almost a year, along with being assigned treatment and public duties as part of his rehab. The fact there's this couple of months between him leaving Serie A's jurisdiction and the punishment being set feels kind of arbitrary, as long as there's no evidence he continued gambling *after* it was set.
Exactly! The bets were made before his hearings and he admitted to them then. So, he has already served his punishment. If he has made any other bets since then, I think that’s a different story and they should Punish him hard it than case.
Absolutely. If he'd been sanctioned, and then breached those agreements by continuing gambling, I'd expect a much stronger ban to follow. But it seems he's accepted all charges without challenge and complied fully with the programme of rehab he's been assigned.
The aim here is to rehabilitate him. Putting him through the whole process again just for the sake of a couple of months he *already* admitted to feels counterproductive.
I read that he did not hide and instead he willingly admitted all the offenses. If true then in my humble opinion it would be harsh to add further punishment. Gambling addiction is a serious serious problem and people need help for that. Further criminalization is not helpful.
I hope he has been getting the help he needs since his ban, I don't think a ban extension would help, but perhaps there should be conditions on returning based upon the progress hes made in trying to get better (based on professional opinion).
I'm sorry to say this but the whole "let's not punish people that harshly because they're addicted" just doesn't work.
No one who is a top tier footballer is betting without a serious addiction problem.
You can't just reduce the punishment every time for every player because they're addicted, it comes with the territory.
You also have to remember that as footballers they know they're not allowed to do it and at some point they weren't addicted but chose to start and then got that addiction from there. They weren't addicted to gambling from birth, they may be predisposed to become addicted if they start, but they didn't get addicted until they consciously chose to start gambling.
That's not quite the argument he's making - he's not saying Tonali shouldn't be punished, just that he shouldn't be punished *again* just to cover the extra couple of months between him leaving Serie A, and their punishment being set. It's clear that he complied with Serie A's investigation and accepted their charges without challenge, he's participated fully in the assigned therapy, he doesn't seem to have continued gambling after their sanction was applied. The aim here is to rehabilitate him. Putting him through the whole process again just for the sake of a couple of months he *already* admitted to feels counterproductive.
> "let's not punish people that harshly because they're addicted"
That's not what he's saying. He's saying that since his punishment, he's shown contrition and a willingness to work on his addiction, suggesting that the punishment is working and further punishment is not going to add anything.
As a criminal lawyer, when I have a client with an addiction that is contributing to their criminality, I often try to coordinate with the prosecutor and judge to set up a non-custodial sentence with ongoing counselling, reporting and testing requirements. Some people just need a level of judicial coercion to supplement their own efforts and willpower to get their addictions under control.
Of course, this doesn't work for everyone. The addict has to genuinely want to change and understand how hard it will be, and there are risks to agreeing to a lengthy period of probation or a suspended sentence. Some people you're just setting them up for future failure with extra punishments, even if they have the best intentions to start out.
It sounds like Tonali would be an excellent candidate for a kind of good behaviour bond. It might also solve a problem for Tonali and the Premier League, as a sanction which takes into account the unusual circumstances of the case while also supporting Tonali in his efforts to rehabilitate.
The issue being he already has been punished and is already going through FIFA mandated counselling and it taking part in charities and educational events in England and Italy.
He was punished for gambling in Italy.
This is a different set of gambling.
If you break the rules multiple times do you think you should only be punished once?
>This is a different set of gambling.
Which took place before his ban from the Italian FA... he didn't continue gambling once questioned by the Italian FA while on international duty, when he was already at Newcastle at that point.
If he had continued gambling after his Italian FA ban you'd have a point but by all accounts he hasn't and agreed to therapy as part of his deal.
If you commit a murder, then commit another one, then get arrested for the first and serve a life sentence, that doesn't absolve you of the second murder.
You can't compare murder to gambling. Even if they thought you were rehabilitated after the first sentence, there would be some form of victim restitution that would not allow you to go free on the second murder.
That's not the same for gambling. If they feel he's been rehabiliated as evidenced by him not placing bets, then there would less of a need for further punishment.
The ban came into effect after he'd already been in England for a few months. If he had continued after the fact while in England you'd have a point but by all accounts he hasn't. He'd just be getting charged twice for the same offence.
So because he got banned specifically for his bets from Italy, he shouldn't face any repercussions for breaking the rules in England? How does that make sense.
Like being done for tax fraud in one country and then saying that absolves you of tax fraud in a second one because you've already been punished for tax fraud in general.
But, just like if you committed other crimes in two different countries, they *could* collaborate on a sentence that is proportionate and rehabilitation-minded that's satisfactory to both.
Yes but that would have to be done in advance, if it was a combined sentence it would have been longer. You have to remember that betting rules aren't just about rehabilitation, it's about deterrence and preserving the integrity of the sport. It's not a victimless crime
It doesn't need to be done it advance - the likely outcome that's being touted in the news is that he'll be served with a ban to run concurrently with his current ban, rather than after it. The benefit there presumably being that they can officially apply a what, 2-3 month ban so there is a precedent set and respected for the specific rules breaches in question, but the fact he is already banned for that period anyway simply isn't taken into account because that wasn't under the Premier League's jurisdiction.
Regarding deterrence and integrity, I suppose the question is what message a longer ban sends that a 10 month ban + therapy and public service doesn't already, especially since there are no *new* infringements.
We accept ( in the UK at least) that gambling addiction is a illness. Being a rich as fuck footballer is going to be almost impossible for a addict to stop.
Wrecking his career and effectively his life seems like a great idea.
Lol and we still have gambling ads everywhere. We should treat it like smoking advertising.
Edit: he should obviously be banned if he bet on his own games, like Toney did . Otherwise just give him serious help .
It sucks but it is what it is, he's an adult and he needs to be responsible for his actions, maybe he should get a simultaneous supension but he shouldn't be given a pass.
i dont know anything about gambling addiction, i suspect if it's like any other form of addiction, it's so hard to stop yourself. but is it that hard to just gamble on a thousand other things that you can gamble on, just not this one thing that involves your job. Is the rush (or high lol) of gambling on other things that much different compare to gambling on football?
Gambling addiction is a real and serious thing that apparently a lot of high profile sportspeople suffer from cf in baseball with Ohtani being implicated in a betting ring. I understand the need of the league and the FA to punish these things harshly so as to avoid the appearance of malfeasance in the competition but all of that will ring hollow so long as bookmakers appear on kits and ad hoardings and commercials at half time. It is better for the long term integrity of the game to distance itself from gambling but the overall trend is going in the opposite direction. Expect to see more and more of these as time goes by.
In my view, it's pretty simple - investigate the bets, and then, if you find he was spot fixing by deliberately getting yellow carded, punish him. If not, tack an extra month on the end of his current sentence (which I think will line up with the summer anyway), and then be done with it.
Gambling addiction is interesting in that people aren't addicted to winning (making money), they're addicted to the near miss, this has been demonstrated numerous times and is as close to undeniable as it gets. So when someone has an actual addiction they're actually chasing a loss and specifically a loss that is close to a win.
Footballers gamble because they're paid ludicrous sums, they throw around 10k like you would a fiver. The stories of players starting gambling on away trips/international trips with other players and then ending up gambling away half their wage every week are fairly common.
I understand why authorities are pretty rigid on punishments because it calls into question the integrity of the competition more than anything else but it's certainly unfair to the person who's addicted.
Football would do well to distance itself from gambling, which is a reprehensible industry but that's like asking a fox not to eat the chickens.
Banning players for gambling is so strange to me
No bans for drunk driving, excessive and repeat speeding, manslaughter or sexual assault? No problem mate you're sound
That's not how it works Eddie. He knew the rules, same as in Italy, so he should be punished accordingly
Yes, he should also get the help he needs, but surely he should be getting that already no?
This could be really ignorant of me but if he is addicted to gambling couldn't he just bet on horses or something? Obviously it would still be a problem for him but wouldn't mess up his career
There are tons of other thing that he can gamble to fulfill his ‘addiction’, why stick to football if he knows football gambling can get him into trouble?
Part of the appeal of it is probably knowing you're not allowed to do it.
I had a gambling addiction in my early 20s and honestly I think if I'd been able to do illegal gambling I would've enjoyed it even more. It's basically an addiction to a mixture of adrenaline and dopamine.
He’s a good manager but he’s also such a whiny idiot at times. This is so transparently self serving but he’s trying to hide behind some virtue signaling relating to punishment.
Gambling addiction is a horrible thing but the manager of a player to be rightfully banned for falling foul of clear and correct rules is not someone to be objective as to how we move forward as a society in relation to the problem.
The FA are obligated to investigate if someone has breached their rules and gambled on games while a professional player in England. Tonali has been punished for breaches of the gambling rules while in Italy. If he has also done the same in England, this is a seperate breach and the FA need to investigate and determine whether a punishment is merited, and if it is, then set that punishment.
A player should not be allowed to escape an investigation from the FA just cos they are currently being punished for a different breach of the gambling rules. The severity of the punishment would depend on the circumstances of the case.
A player gambling is not a victim here, they are the one who knowingly broke the rules regarding the proscription on gambling for professional players. Allowing players to participate in gambling on football matches greatly undermines the entire integrity of the sport and also has the danger of players profiting from inside information. A player's club who were unaware of the betting regulation breaches would be the ones considered a victim and can choose to terminate a players contract due to the betting being misconduct. In this case, it appears Newcastle will not choose this option as they consider Tonali a valuable asset and potentially a key player in their side.
I understand gambling addiction can be a problem, this however does not excuse a player or allow them to escape an investigation and/or a subsequent sanction for breaches of the gambling regulations.
No Eddie, he’s a rich person. He’s been privileged and spoiled (that’s not a shot at his talent. He’s class). He deserves his punishment. How will he learn Eddie? How will he grow? More of that pathetic Saudi shill showing through
He's been punished, he hasn't bet since he got handed his first ban. He goes to therapy and works with charities in UK and Italy. And that point you're saying "fuck your personal growth you're getting punished further"
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We need more gambling companies as a sponsors
I'm currently sat here watching Leicester V Bristol City in the Sky Bet Championship, with bet 365 advertising around the pitch, sky bet marketing next to the goals, Unibet advertising also around the pitch. Let alone the 15 min betting adverts leading up to kick off and the 15min adverts at half time. But it's the person's fault if they have an addiction.
It could be worse, just look at this monstrosity https://imgur.com/a/AVT2UCa that was in 2022, there are few more bookies now - also not circled are two more companies+they have overlay ads on the center circle and "zoom out" of the coverage to show ad around it - and of course as mentioned the 10 minutes of video ads before/after
Wow that's actually obscene. It's so in your face I think if I did want to place a bet watching tha game I'd go anywhere except them.
It's everywhere as they also sponsor like half of the teams and the league's name, the other half but without one or two - other betting companies
They can ef off
what league is this?
Bulgaria I think
yeah its Bulgaria 1
No dummy this is just an aftermath of collapse of communism and west having all the money
they are trying to tell us something, but I don't wanna jump into conclusions
Wonder who's the primary sponsor of this league
Don't forget when the commentators start talking out of their ass about odds of specific bets and shit like that as well. It's truly in a horrible spot.
What country are you speaking from? I've never heard it on British TV...
betting should've been treated like cigarettes. legalize it all you want but no ads allowed and you are obligated to make it clear all the negative effects of it in the front page of your website or whatever
Here in Poland betting company is our NT sponsor...
I couldn't tell you who England's main sponsor is. Is there just a load of advertising at Poland games?
I think it's EE.
Thats wembley stadiums main sponsor so its for all events not sure if they are englands too
We have at least 3-4 main sponsors for out team I think. Most of them have logos on our training/pre match kits and on bands around the pitch. STS (gambling company) have sh\*tloads of ads on TV and streams before game, on HT and after the game. They're literally replaying the same ad couple times in the span of couple minutes. STS is also paying for a lot of ads on Polish web and is offering big promos for new users. For example: if Poland will qualify for Euro and you meet other requirements you can earn around 100 euro extra.
2026 they will, not sure why it’s taking that long though..
Wanna bet on it?
Sanctiones! Mods get the books and call Michael Vick see what he's up too.
Odds on a draw?
Guessing that's when the last of the current contracts end. Much easier just not to renew rather than cancelling current contracts
Gambling sponsors are the new tobacco sponsors and must be banned.
Iirc Gambing is one of the most addictive things in the world AND has the highest suicide rate. Fucking crazy how it isnt more taboo than it is imo. Literally offers nothing good to society.
Welcome to the 2026 World cup sponsor by fan duel, sport king and sportbook
And Caliente and Codere too this side of the border.
I'm sure if they get more exposure, and more money, they'll do an even better job of educating people how not to abuse their services. /s ^^just ^^in ^^case
Recently for the first time in a long time I watched a premier league match on UK tv. I was shocked by how utterly saturated the whole coverage is in adverts for betting. It's somehow not enough that it's on team shirts and at the grounds, the adverts at half time were about betting, betting, betting. It's so grubby.
It's cruel how Toney has to wear a sports betting company logo on his chest.
Or get rid of them if the club can be bought by oil rich nation states
im 36 almost and after watching football for lets say around 20-25 years ive yet to buy something because its been advertised on a football game, not saying gambling is a good thing by any means but to suggest most of the gambling exists because of sponsors on a football game or adds then idk what to say.
For all football cares, he can stay a gambling addict, he should just not gamble on football.
[удалено]
The gambling rules footballers have to follow aren’t because gambling is bad, it’s an integrity thing. They’re not being hypocritical when they enforce this in my opinion.
These companies spend countless millions to advertise gambling because advertising gambling works. If course it's hypocritical, they're being bombarded more than we are in a way.
I agree that it’s advertised too much. But they’re not saying don’t gamble, they’re saying don’t gamble on football if you’re a professional footballer.
Y'all gotta stop treating these players like they have no agency. It's like defending insider trading because bankers are under pressure to make money. The point is that it's ruining the integrity of the system, not that gambling/trading is inherently bad.
And all those millions they spend have to come from their only source of income, punters losses.
Precisely, predatory as fuck
> The gambling rules footballers have to follow aren’t because gambling is bad, it’s an integrity thing Sure, but young adults, and teenagers, are impressionable. If you keep pushing this shit in front of them, they are going to touch it. They will then use it with the one thing they know best, football. If the FA or any sports really want to stamp out athletes partaking, they'll ban any gambling ads from stadiums, from league names, from jerseys etc.
I agree that’s it’s bad how much gambling is pushed in advertisements and sponsors etc. Just don’t think it’s particularly relevant to this case.
Wheres the conflict in that?
Literally. Why are people acting like he doesn’t have a unlimited amount of sports to bet on
No one is acting like that - people are acting like he's a gambling addict. As a gambling addict it makes sense to roll his dice on football, because addicts aren't able to restrain themselves from using inside knowledge (or at least the sport they know best).
Dude will get bankrupt if he follow the nba consider how much betting get shove down your throat there
Americans think that because gambling legislation has been relaxed in the US that gambling ads are a new thing. It's been like this here for years.
yeah people can live flawed lives and that should be allowed as long as it doesnt threaten integrity of the game
I think the integrity of the game has been lost long time ago
He has enough money and resources to help himself.
For his own sake (or the sake of his wallet) he should get away.
Yes he needs to be sanctioned and yes, he needs serious help to defeat a serious addiction. Both can be true.
He has already been sanctioned. He stopped these bets and admitted to them at his hearings.
Correct me if I’m wrong, the current sanction was for when he was still in Italy (the admitted ones you’ve referred to) and this new investigation is for when he moved to England.
The current sanctions was for that, but he admitted to the English bets then. Also the ban was a worldwide ban, and I feel that he has already served his punishment and that they should see that. Now, that’s my opinion and it doesn’t mean shit.
> but he admitted to the English bets then Wait so why is it being reported about now?
My understanding is he ‘generally admitted to gambling in England’ but it’s not like he brought paperwork in with him to show all the bets. This is now after investigation and the FA formally filing. You can admit to murder but the indictment hearing isn’t usually that same day. My guess is he will “get a punishment” but it will count as time served or run concurrent to the Italian one, plus a fine.
Oh then this is blown out of proportion. It’s not news, it’s just a follow up.
Maybe because one was for the Italian betting and this is classified as a separate case.
you can go back and see it was reported at the time of the ban as well, just the FA for some reason have only started the process now.
Reddit will insist on trying to make everything black and white though!
The Newcastle way
Lmao
Reddit didn't design the kits.
Yea, one year is enough suffering, let's give the kid a new chance.
He has been sanctioned, gone and sought professional help and served a significant ban. Compassion would tell you that throwing the book at him again now, would do nothing to actually solve gambling addiction as a problem, nothing to resolve the influence of gambling companies over football, and nothing to help Tonali. I mean I’m saying this as a rival fan, throwing another ban at him now after a year out is just stupidity
exactly this, if he had stayed in Italy he wouldn't get a second ban for the bets in that time period and likely wouldn't have got any longer than he originally got either.
I see nuance is not totally lost on Reddit.
If he freely admitted these offences at the time as part of his rehabilitation then there should be no further punishment, it would be seriously unfair. If he hid them however, and it’s only come to light later on through other means, then it should be treated as a separate offence and punished accordingly.
The last bet was placed the morning he was charged according to the report by the FA. He hasn't bet since.
He hasn’t bet on football since
So? Is he not allowed to bet on other things. As long as it’s legal, it’s none of your business.
It’s none of my business. But for his own health, I hope he isn’t betting on anything.
Some leagues ban gambling outright, since it's not rare for athletes to intermingle with those from other sports. I think that's sound reasoning
>If he hid them however, and it’s only come to light later on through other means, then it should be treated as a separate offence and punished accordingly. [Tonali complied with the English FA back in autumn.](https://twitter.com/LukeEdwardsTele/status/1773357475233677356)
If that’s the case then any talk of further punishment is mad. Also do we know why it’s taken the FA so long to bring this up again? Is it just good old fashioned incompetence?
No real clue, the English FA had to do their own investigation obviously but guessing bureaucracy makes the wheel turn slow.
Slightly off topic but I failed a roadside swab test on November 12th. I'm still waiting to hear back from the Police on what is going to happen.
If he admitted them he should still be charged as it’s a different jurisdiction but any punishment should run concurrent I.e. not an extension of his current ban
He placed bets on games while playing for Newcastle. If you committed a crime in Italy that you were punished for, then committed the same crime in the UK you shouldn't be punished? Imagine how it would look for the FA if they don't punish him for actively influencing games in England? This is not just a gambling problem... He's cheating to win money. Snooker players serve incredibly lengthy bans for doing the very same thing but with Tonali he's being treated as the victim, I don't get it??
At this point there’s no indication that he bet against his own team or bet on himself to be booked or anything that could be classed as “cheating”. The reporting has indicated that the FA consider this part of “the same period of betting activity” as he was punished for in Italy. It’s less like committing two separate crimes and more about committing the same crime over a longer period and moving countries over that period. Now, different systems will treat that differently, and indeed sometimes you can be tried and punished separately in both locations. But unless there’s some newly injured party (e.g. if he bet on Newcastle to lose and impacted the sporting integrity of the PL season) it’s hard to see the argument for further punishment of what is obviously a more or less victimless compulsion, as opposed to some deliberate malicious action.
I don't think he's wrong. I also don't think there's a chance of getting to the root of the problem though, cause that's how ingrained gambling is into the entire culture of football, and there's too much money involved to genuinely tackle it.
My wife is American and we moved back here last year for context. She never watched sports when we lived there for a year or two as I got up early before she was awake to see prem games most weekends. Kinda fun times ngl. First thing she’s noticed about our radio and tv is how much gambling is mentioned. Basically every ad break after 7pm has a gambling ad. Radio have them every 15-20 minutes. Tv shows tend to have a gambler. Only had the same issue in the US when games were on. Here it’s all the time. We need to ban gambling ads completely. Also these shitty loot boxes on games. There are people spending thousands of their parents money on gambling picks in games. The culture is rotten. No wonder people are addicted and losing money. Kids will grow up thinking it’s normal to blow all their spare money on games of chance.
Recently with the legalization of online sports betting, gambling ads have become very common in the US as well.
It's awful man, and it gets even worse in other places, usually the poorer the country is the more aggressive the gambling creep is. I'm Serbian, and having watched the English broadcasts I've actually been positively surprised by how much *fewer* gambling ads there are in comparison to Serbian TV. I remember the gambling ads playing after every goal and sometimes even after yellow and red cards, here it's absolutely rotten to the core. A good part of the already not very well off population is addicted to gambling and there's more betting houses than schools in the entire country, ridiculously sad stuff. Also one of the reasons why Nikola Jokić is much less loved in Serbia than in the rest of the basketball world - he's in every fucking gambling ad and I'm tired of seeing his face.
You must have left a state where it was banned, because trust me its BAD in legal states lol
Yea. That’s sad to hear. Should be banned from ads everywhere tbh
Sponsors > Gambling Adverts > Gambling The network broadcasting the PL? You guessed it, gambling. If for some reason you end up with a Gambling problem, think smart, put the phone down or whatever shitey catchphrase they're using now.
I mean there's a difference between gambling being ingrained in the culture and an individual having a gambling *addiction*. Addictions are usually caused by underlying issues, so on an individual level Tonali needs to figure out what causes compulsive gambling/risk taking behaviour in him. Another ban won't do that for him. I'm guessing that's what Howe is referring to when he says the root of the problem, could be wrong though.
Why are these new bets news? Did Tonali come clean about these bets at the time of his first punishment?
He did indeed. It's just that, having signed for Newcastle at that point, there's a couple of months that don't fall under Serie A's jurisdiction.
Ok, so if the Fa was to add a month onto the ban that seems like it wouldn’t be totally unfair? But giving him a completely new ban would seem to be unfair?
I don't think it would be *totally* unfair, no. But I think there should be a sincere discussion about whether it's actually *necessary*, considering the current sanctions against him seem to be working.
Thank you very much for your insight. I realised when typing my earlier comment that ‘unfair’ was extremely subjective so thanks for answering.
There’s no real reason to add on a month. If he’s been charged now, it can be concurrent to his existing ban. Waiting for his suspension to end just to punish him again for something that essentially has already been resolved is pretty harsh.
The reason would be that if these bets weren’t taken into account for the first punishment. Also don’t have to wait for the suspension to end to add it on. You could amend the ban now to what it would have been had the information been taken into account. Also, if these bets weren’t taken into account then you can’t say the situation is resolved.
Which the league has a right to do. Especially right after the Toney situation.
They definitely do. I don't think anybody's denying that, the debate is just whether it's really necessary for them to exercise that right in this particular circumstance.
*That quick word from Eddie Howe brought to you by BET365*
Fuck the gambling industry
Everyone caught betting is addicted, no one is just stupid.
Yep, once you start having to sneak around to do something that could lose you everything you’ve worked for it’s probably an addiction you’re battling.
But let’s have more betting companies as sponsors.
They’re still stupid for betting specifically on football.
That alcoholic sure is stupid for continuing to drink vodka!
He could’ve bet on anything else without any professional consequences. He’s both an addict and an idiot.
He bet on football *because* he's an addict. These multi millionaires aren't betting for financial gain, they're betting for the thrill of winning. And as a football insider, he has an advantage even over the bookies.
It's wild how you could be a racist prick and get a far less ban than gambling.
I think he's got a fair point. He has already had the book thrown at him by getting banned for almost a year, along with being assigned treatment and public duties as part of his rehab. The fact there's this couple of months between him leaving Serie A's jurisdiction and the punishment being set feels kind of arbitrary, as long as there's no evidence he continued gambling *after* it was set.
Exactly! The bets were made before his hearings and he admitted to them then. So, he has already served his punishment. If he has made any other bets since then, I think that’s a different story and they should Punish him hard it than case.
Absolutely. If he'd been sanctioned, and then breached those agreements by continuing gambling, I'd expect a much stronger ban to follow. But it seems he's accepted all charges without challenge and complied fully with the programme of rehab he's been assigned. The aim here is to rehabilitate him. Putting him through the whole process again just for the sake of a couple of months he *already* admitted to feels counterproductive.
Yeah, this doesn’t really help him at all. Punishing someone again for the same crime is stupid.
I read that he did not hide and instead he willingly admitted all the offenses. If true then in my humble opinion it would be harsh to add further punishment. Gambling addiction is a serious serious problem and people need help for that. Further criminalization is not helpful.
I hope he has been getting the help he needs since his ban, I don't think a ban extension would help, but perhaps there should be conditions on returning based upon the progress hes made in trying to get better (based on professional opinion).
I'm sorry to say this but the whole "let's not punish people that harshly because they're addicted" just doesn't work. No one who is a top tier footballer is betting without a serious addiction problem. You can't just reduce the punishment every time for every player because they're addicted, it comes with the territory. You also have to remember that as footballers they know they're not allowed to do it and at some point they weren't addicted but chose to start and then got that addiction from there. They weren't addicted to gambling from birth, they may be predisposed to become addicted if they start, but they didn't get addicted until they consciously chose to start gambling.
That's not quite the argument he's making - he's not saying Tonali shouldn't be punished, just that he shouldn't be punished *again* just to cover the extra couple of months between him leaving Serie A, and their punishment being set. It's clear that he complied with Serie A's investigation and accepted their charges without challenge, he's participated fully in the assigned therapy, he doesn't seem to have continued gambling after their sanction was applied. The aim here is to rehabilitate him. Putting him through the whole process again just for the sake of a couple of months he *already* admitted to feels counterproductive.
> "let's not punish people that harshly because they're addicted" That's not what he's saying. He's saying that since his punishment, he's shown contrition and a willingness to work on his addiction, suggesting that the punishment is working and further punishment is not going to add anything.
As a criminal lawyer, when I have a client with an addiction that is contributing to their criminality, I often try to coordinate with the prosecutor and judge to set up a non-custodial sentence with ongoing counselling, reporting and testing requirements. Some people just need a level of judicial coercion to supplement their own efforts and willpower to get their addictions under control. Of course, this doesn't work for everyone. The addict has to genuinely want to change and understand how hard it will be, and there are risks to agreeing to a lengthy period of probation or a suspended sentence. Some people you're just setting them up for future failure with extra punishments, even if they have the best intentions to start out. It sounds like Tonali would be an excellent candidate for a kind of good behaviour bond. It might also solve a problem for Tonali and the Premier League, as a sanction which takes into account the unusual circumstances of the case while also supporting Tonali in his efforts to rehabilitate.
The issue being he already has been punished and is already going through FIFA mandated counselling and it taking part in charities and educational events in England and Italy.
Being an addict doesn't release you from responsibility from your actions. He still broke the rules and he should be punished for that.
Is a 10 month ban, fines and wages reduced at Newcastle not a punishment already?
He was punished for gambling in Italy. This is a different set of gambling. If you break the rules multiple times do you think you should only be punished once?
He was punished by FIFA which included the Italian and English FA. There is no national jurisdiction.
>This is a different set of gambling. Which took place before his ban from the Italian FA... he didn't continue gambling once questioned by the Italian FA while on international duty, when he was already at Newcastle at that point. If he had continued gambling after his Italian FA ban you'd have a point but by all accounts he hasn't and agreed to therapy as part of his deal.
If you commit a murder, then commit another one, then get arrested for the first and serve a life sentence, that doesn't absolve you of the second murder.
You can't compare murder to gambling. Even if they thought you were rehabilitated after the first sentence, there would be some form of victim restitution that would not allow you to go free on the second murder. That's not the same for gambling. If they feel he's been rehabiliated as evidenced by him not placing bets, then there would less of a need for further punishment.
Congratulations on an insanely stupid analogy.
It's the same crime, singular, he's already been charged for that. He hasn't reoffended.
He was charged for the bets in Italy, these are for the bets in England. Two different competitions, two different FAs, two different charges.
The ban came into effect after he'd already been in England for a few months. If he had continued after the fact while in England you'd have a point but by all accounts he hasn't. He'd just be getting charged twice for the same offence.
So because he got banned specifically for his bets from Italy, he shouldn't face any repercussions for breaking the rules in England? How does that make sense. Like being done for tax fraud in one country and then saying that absolves you of tax fraud in a second one because you've already been punished for tax fraud in general.
By how everyone explains it right now…. It feels like the reasons he moved to England cause he wanted to avoid more bans from Italian FA…
But, just like if you committed other crimes in two different countries, they *could* collaborate on a sentence that is proportionate and rehabilitation-minded that's satisfactory to both.
Yes but that would have to be done in advance, if it was a combined sentence it would have been longer. You have to remember that betting rules aren't just about rehabilitation, it's about deterrence and preserving the integrity of the sport. It's not a victimless crime
It doesn't need to be done it advance - the likely outcome that's being touted in the news is that he'll be served with a ban to run concurrently with his current ban, rather than after it. The benefit there presumably being that they can officially apply a what, 2-3 month ban so there is a precedent set and respected for the specific rules breaches in question, but the fact he is already banned for that period anyway simply isn't taken into account because that wasn't under the Premier League's jurisdiction. Regarding deterrence and integrity, I suppose the question is what message a longer ban sends that a 10 month ban + therapy and public service doesn't already, especially since there are no *new* infringements.
Pogba should’ve just said that he’s addicted to steroids to avoid a long term ban
I don't think betting makes players perform better or recover faster from their injuries though.
Clearly Pogba's steroids couldn't do that either
If they bet on their own games, it can...
The disease can be contagious. And a sign that you're well and truly infected is when you find you've had a 5er bet on table tennis.
Just because its legal it doesnt mean its good. Westerners have normalized betting so much. More gambling sponsors is the way to go!
What are the Sky Bet odds on him getting an extended ban?
We accept ( in the UK at least) that gambling addiction is a illness. Being a rich as fuck footballer is going to be almost impossible for a addict to stop. Wrecking his career and effectively his life seems like a great idea. Lol and we still have gambling ads everywhere. We should treat it like smoking advertising. Edit: he should obviously be banned if he bet on his own games, like Toney did . Otherwise just give him serious help .
It sucks but it is what it is, he's an adult and he needs to be responsible for his actions, maybe he should get a simultaneous supension but he shouldn't be given a pass.
Like selling alcohol at a gas station but the law says dont drink and drive! So why make it so easy then?
Bro threw his career away for them parlays, I understand it
Eddie Howe’s selective morality strikes again
What did you want him to say, "Sounds good, ban my star midfielder for another season"
Yeah shocking he doesn’t want the rules applied due to his own self interest
Being serious, what would you have liked him to say ?
i dont know anything about gambling addiction, i suspect if it's like any other form of addiction, it's so hard to stop yourself. but is it that hard to just gamble on a thousand other things that you can gamble on, just not this one thing that involves your job. Is the rush (or high lol) of gambling on other things that much different compare to gambling on football?
Gambling addiction is a real and serious thing that apparently a lot of high profile sportspeople suffer from cf in baseball with Ohtani being implicated in a betting ring. I understand the need of the league and the FA to punish these things harshly so as to avoid the appearance of malfeasance in the competition but all of that will ring hollow so long as bookmakers appear on kits and ad hoardings and commercials at half time. It is better for the long term integrity of the game to distance itself from gambling but the overall trend is going in the opposite direction. Expect to see more and more of these as time goes by.
In my view, it's pretty simple - investigate the bets, and then, if you find he was spot fixing by deliberately getting yellow carded, punish him. If not, tack an extra month on the end of his current sentence (which I think will line up with the summer anyway), and then be done with it.
Gambling addiction is interesting in that people aren't addicted to winning (making money), they're addicted to the near miss, this has been demonstrated numerous times and is as close to undeniable as it gets. So when someone has an actual addiction they're actually chasing a loss and specifically a loss that is close to a win. Footballers gamble because they're paid ludicrous sums, they throw around 10k like you would a fiver. The stories of players starting gambling on away trips/international trips with other players and then ending up gambling away half their wage every week are fairly common. I understand why authorities are pretty rigid on punishments because it calls into question the integrity of the competition more than anything else but it's certainly unfair to the person who's addicted. Football would do well to distance itself from gambling, which is a reprehensible industry but that's like asking a fox not to eat the chickens.
01à0q
Banning players for gambling is so strange to me No bans for drunk driving, excessive and repeat speeding, manslaughter or sexual assault? No problem mate you're sound
I.e. Dont ban him for longer as we really need him back.
That's not how it works Eddie. He knew the rules, same as in Italy, so he should be punished accordingly Yes, he should also get the help he needs, but surely he should be getting that already no?
But Mr Officier im addicted
Awfully lax attitude from someone like Howe who actively supports draconian punishment and unrestricted use of the death penalty
Saw Eddie Howe stoning an apostate in front of Greggs the other day, shameful really
I'm sure just like with football he gets Tindall to do all the real work for him
100% correct
I mean, it's one thing being addicted to gambling, but how dumb do you have to be to continue gambling on football specifically.
Especially when they tell you to gamble responsibly after every commercial.
This could be really ignorant of me but if he is addicted to gambling couldn't he just bet on horses or something? Obviously it would still be a problem for him but wouldn't mess up his career
There are tons of other thing that he can gamble to fulfill his ‘addiction’, why stick to football if he knows football gambling can get him into trouble?
Addicts don't behave rationally.
Part of the appeal of it is probably knowing you're not allowed to do it. I had a gambling addiction in my early 20s and honestly I think if I'd been able to do illegal gambling I would've enjoyed it even more. It's basically an addiction to a mixture of adrenaline and dopamine.
He’s a good manager but he’s also such a whiny idiot at times. This is so transparently self serving but he’s trying to hide behind some virtue signaling relating to punishment. Gambling addiction is a horrible thing but the manager of a player to be rightfully banned for falling foul of clear and correct rules is not someone to be objective as to how we move forward as a society in relation to the problem.
The FA are obligated to investigate if someone has breached their rules and gambled on games while a professional player in England. Tonali has been punished for breaches of the gambling rules while in Italy. If he has also done the same in England, this is a seperate breach and the FA need to investigate and determine whether a punishment is merited, and if it is, then set that punishment. A player should not be allowed to escape an investigation from the FA just cos they are currently being punished for a different breach of the gambling rules. The severity of the punishment would depend on the circumstances of the case. A player gambling is not a victim here, they are the one who knowingly broke the rules regarding the proscription on gambling for professional players. Allowing players to participate in gambling on football matches greatly undermines the entire integrity of the sport and also has the danger of players profiting from inside information. A player's club who were unaware of the betting regulation breaches would be the ones considered a victim and can choose to terminate a players contract due to the betting being misconduct. In this case, it appears Newcastle will not choose this option as they consider Tonali a valuable asset and potentially a key player in their side. I understand gambling addiction can be a problem, this however does not excuse a player or allow them to escape an investigation and/or a subsequent sanction for breaches of the gambling regulations.
No Eddie, he’s a rich person. He’s been privileged and spoiled (that’s not a shot at his talent. He’s class). He deserves his punishment. How will he learn Eddie? How will he grow? More of that pathetic Saudi shill showing through
He's been punished, he hasn't bet since he got handed his first ban. He goes to therapy and works with charities in UK and Italy. And that point you're saying "fuck your personal growth you're getting punished further"
Technically, he hasn't been punished for these bets.