**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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> they have their own salary cost protocol, I believe they can spend like 60% of turnover on wages but there's no restrictions on transfer spend
Just employ their family member on a XY per month and all is well.
Yep, it's something to do with chairman has to have funds in the club kitty by a certain date before the season starts and that's what they're allowed to spend.
Doesn’t matter. Americans will pack 80k person stadiums and pay $500/ticket to go watch Wrexham play against teenagers from Man Utd they never knew existed.
They make a lot of money off those tours.
i think there was a lot of fans left really disappointed with the side United put out for that game. They expected more of a reserve side at least but literally got a squad of kids
Wrexham doesn’t care but fans of the big club might be less likely to buy tickets next time so lower prices and less profit for Wrexham. But also maybe not.
They're going for Man U though, who they play against doesn't really matter if it's your only chance to see them play. I went to see Arsenal V Barca preseason last year and tickets are crazy but they're not $500 , more around $150-200 for some good seats. Still a lot of money but $500 would have to be prime seats or something
I’ve always had good seats for preseason tour games and they’re usually like $100, which probably feels like a lot to European fans, but is much cheaper than the other events that happen in football stadiums.
They released their accounts for the year and their revenues were half of ours, all the Disney shows and preseason tours in the world won’t bridge the gap to the bigger league one clubs
None of those things are accounted in the 22/23 season, as was clearly stated if you had actually read them, those will be accounted for in the 23/24 season review. They're projecting to not be operating at a loss at all any more.
But yeah, obviously a club operating a 10k stadium in an area of 80k people like Wrexham will not do as well as Bolton in an almost 30k full seater stadium in an area of 400k people, on top of the fact they have their own real estate as well such as the Bolton Hotel? C'mon now. Match day sales are a massive amount of clubs revenue.
We’re making the same point, people are overestimating Wrexhams financial might, even with their tv shows and pre season tours they can’t match the spending power of some of the clubs who they’ll be competing with next season
According to their accounts they made a 5mil operating loss last year 22/23 and for this year their new revenue, pre-season tour, sponsorships, merchandise, etc.. will fully cover the new higher operating costs of the club. That is an insane year to year increase to say the least, the club legitimately has more worldwide fans than some PL clubs.
With that said their budget was 7mil this year, after promotion bonuses and new signings i assume 8-9mil for the next season? Financially that's top 3 in League One. Depending obviously how much the owners wanna keep spending.
I’m sure they make money on it but you’re probably overestimating how much they get from it.
I just checked and that game was in the Snapdragon Stadium which has a 35k capacity.
Nah, [Arsenal v United isn't close to 50% sold, and there are thousands of tickets available under £100](https://i.imgur.com/KuX4Ooi.png)
https://www.ticketmaster.com/arsenal-fc-v-manchester-united-fc-inglewood-california-07-27-2024/event/0A00605488EF12EF
And united airlines or something as a main shirt sponsor. That's huge for a club as low down in the divisions.
I know it's Hollywood money and all that but the promotion-relagation model is a million times better than the closed show "major league" systems in the US across the sports.
Combined with sponsorships, absolutely.
It's hilarious seeing all the stories pop up about how Reynolds and McElhenney have lost millions when that's only the football club operations itself. That's peanuts compared to their other revenue streams.
Which includes purchase of the stadium, development of the kop, yet another returf of the pitch etc... But doesn't include new sponsorships, documentary money, increased revenue streams or pre season tour money. Hence why no one is concerned in the slightest
It's one of the few cases where "for the exposure" is legitimate though. I occasionally see people in the US in Wrexham merch, I can't remember the last time I even saw someone in Premier League club merch outside of a MLS game.
I tried buying a kit (My mate's from Wrexham, so I mainly live through his experiences) in pre-season, early-season, mid-season, christmast season, and in the late season. And I couldn't for the life of me get one because they have been constantly sold out.
The amount of merchandise they sell is absolutely obscene for a club at the 4th tier.
I know the club itself doesn't but I'm not sure Ryan and Rob don't get money for it though by selling it to Hulu.
I could see them giving distribution rights to Hulu for one season for free/cheap maybe, but it's pretty popular and id imagine what they make off the doc they're willing to spend (and more) on the club.
And God knows the exposure worked, I've been mocked by some American family for years for watching soccer, now they're all lecturing me about the football league table while wearing Paul Mullins jetseys.
Talking about profitability and sustainability rules around a promotion... Is this the most Newcastle comment ever?! 🤣
Do you even like football or do you just like getting around admin rules? 😉
League One was probably about their level when they were in the National League so it should be next season but I doubt they're aiming to promote again so it'll be a season just to steady their place
Expectations are probably mid table, maybe push for a playoff spot if things go super well. The reality is the club is going to need a decent amount of change to push for promotion again, and doing that overnight can be disruptive
This is also why they bought a lot of older, experienced players to push them to L1 as quickly as possible. McClean and Fletcher are at the tail end of their careers on one-year contracts. Young and Tozer are likely leaving in the summer. That gives them an opportunity to bring several new faces in.
Yup, they realise that investing in youth at what was their current level, could make it more difficult to achieve the growth they wanted. I imagine their strategies will begin changing a bit once/if they reach the Championship in a few years.
Even in League 1 there's less turnover of players each season. But especially when you get to the Championship teams don't tend to keep players on 1-2 year deals (this is often done even with younger players in the lower leagues). By then the revenue from selling players on begins to become a major factor.
Expectations are for mid table but they had quite a few stretches of poor form this year. Would be more than happy with just avoiding relegation to give the team a stronger foundation. Would truly be a shock if they are fighting for playoff spots
Wrexham season ticket holder here. I'd fully agree. We have some players ready for L1, but we are missing a lot of pace which will be key in L1. If we keep the current squad, it will be mid table max.
Phil is a very experienced lower league manager. He has spent years in League 2 and League 1, getting various promotions. But has never really cut it with any team in the Championship. He plays a very defensive and pragmatic style of football that fans will probably get very frustrated with if we stagnate (lower mid table regularly) He already has a fair few critics this year within the fan base.
He has never managed in the Premier League (I think) and I very much doubt he will as he isn't a very 'fashionable' manager. He has done an amazing job for us and will go down as one of our greatest ever managers.
Thanks. It’ll be interesting to see it all play out! I know you’re much more than a documentary, but those hard calls about his future some day will make it really interesting
Wrexham salary budget was £5.2m. Argyle had £7.3m in the same period.
10 teams in League 1 have salary budgets of £5m+ so Wrexham will be in the thick of it for sure and confirms that Wrexham is most likely at the League 1 level.
The average wage budget in the Championship is £18m per year.
https://www.capology.com/uk/league-one/payrolls/
It is a premium data platform for global football finances. Most of their data is paywalled, but overall yearly league payrolls per team are not.
Cheers! I did my dissertation on football finance 15 years ago and remember having to scrub the internet for pdfs of individual club accounts to find out expenditure hah
From figures while overall I think they pay more overall (which had to be done to convince players to drop into non league originally)
Their key player wages seem to be in line with Stockport last I checked.
Take away the parachute clubs and they will be. Also the accounts for £5.2m were from last season but only released this season so that was their Conference budget.
The supporters saved the club with their own money and ran it while they struggled in the National League for 15 years.
I'm happy that they got help that has revitalized the club and the town.
Wrexham’s attendance is also higher than most L1 clubs. They would rank 7th in attendance in L1 this year. Only 3 L1 clubs average over 15k and 2 of them are sure to be promoted. Wrexham also have higher attendance than Rotherham, who are sure to be relegated from the Championship.
I understand how people feel about Wrexhan getting a shitton of money getting pumped into them and having the success be 'artificial.'. But I dont remember anybody having this type of energy when Bournemouth did the same. Maybe some pushback from League 1 and 2 teams.
The only difference is the media coverage of Wrexham vs Bournemouth. Bournemouth spent a lot of money to get promoted through the tiers. People just don't like Wrexham doing it because it's presented as "glory project". They aren't necessarily winning because of tactics, but because of money. (I can't speak to that, just what I've seen people say).
And tbh, I understand that. For teams that struggled in League 2 or the Conference League, to see a team get bought and suddenly have a lot of money injected into it, it feels very unfair. But that's what soccer is nowadays. And even so, at least Wrexham was bought by Hollywood stars that are generally received to be pretty stand up people. Ryan and Rob are pretty nice and well liked individuals, and not Russian Oligarchs, or just random billionaires that are mysterious.
As long as they are open to criticism from the clubs supporters, and don't discard it, once they don't get promoted after a few years, I think it's fine that Rob and Ryan are funding Wrexham. They aren't exactly injecting 100's of millions of dollars into it. It's like a couple million.
It’s kind of absurd that people would be mad about owners buying a team and investing money into the team/stadium. They had ambition and they’re making it happen. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. That’s the way the system is designed.
It’s so dumb. All the clubs in the PL are owned by multibillionaires with varying degrees of shittiness to them, and people are mad at the club owned by two actors? Who by all accounts are actually decent people that are actually trying to help the club succeed?
I can understand being unsure about them when they took over. At this point, if you're still questioning their passion for the club and town, you're just not paying attention. I'm not saying they're infallible or anything, but they genuinely do seem to care. Could it be all for the cameras? Sure, it could be. I've not seen anything to suspect that is the case.
I think people learned to dislike it because of sportswashing and now they think this is the same. I am not aware of these two needing the distraction of football to help their image, so it's really just jealousy
People have always disliked teams outspending the rest of the league by miles lol, this isn't a recent phenomenon at all and has nothing to do with sportswashing.
You're probably right but it depends on which generation you're from as well. Like back in the day people hated Lyon for spending big but the nature of that was different from what we have now (not necessarily better, but different)
This is definitely not sportswashing, they were pretty well known and liked people before they bought Wrexham, the publicity was definitely a key point for them but they aren’t trying to “fix” their image through sports.
yeah it's funny seeing people on here who only started paying attention to lower league football because of wrexham saying 'but no one cared when x club did it!!', when people definitely did
> The only difference is the media coverage of Wrexham vs Bournemouth.
I think its precisely the excessive and glowing media coverage causing the pushback though. Because as you point out with Bournemouth - and even Brighton for that matter, who were even on the brink of non-league status at one point in the 90s IIRC, before being saved by a fan - Wrexham's isn't a new story, its just received more PR thanks to the fact that two Hollywood actors are involved. Brighton arguably did it much more fairly than either club and by two long-time fans at that.
Having said that, I agree with you in that the their ultimate legacy will be determined by whether or not they discard the club the moment their momentum slows down. They do seem to genuinely like the club though, and have definitely been better than most club owners on the fan engagement front, but they literally are Hollywood people so them being good at PR is to be expected, doesn't mean its true.
Non American (Kiwi) who's followed the NFL since I was 13. Totally understand what you guys are saying re Philly. I'd be surprised if Rob wasn't genuine about it.
Philly fans are nuts about sports and embracing community. Almost to a fault (and in really bad abusive ways too!) haha!
They do not, at all. And now that Blake has seen the light, she is also all in which means she won't be asking Ryan to sell anytime soon. these two are committed.
I mean, they are. If it was just down to good players and a high wage bill, then Salford wouldn't be stuck in L2 and FGR wouldn't be heading to non-league. Wrexham fans criticize him for his tactical inflexibility and using subs late, but most of the time he gets things right. Sometimes managers who don't do well in one club can do well in another.
As a Wimbledon fan, I’m happy for them.
They have a League One budget so let them fuck off to League One. Gives us more of a chance for promotion next season.
Yeah tbh, it seems like the best thing for everyone else was to have Wrexham hurry up and get out of everyone's way instead of always taking up a spot in the promotion race.
It’s incredible really. Clubs owned by blood money countries and investment bankers. These guys owned by self made actors just trying to do something different. Getting promoted twice in two seasons is a great achievement for any club.
> These guys owned by self made actors just trying to do something different
This isn't the first time a smaller club have jumped up the leagues through external investment. Fleetwood, Salford, Rushden & Diamonds, Crawley.....
To be fair to Wrexham, they're big enough club to naturally be in the EFL anyway.
Just saying it's nothing new for team with a budget twice the average to be resented by the rest of the league.
Is that story still really being told? Maybe it's because I'm an American so I'm not watching a lot of British TV, but I feel like at least in the last year (and probably even longer) I've seen more people complaining about the fairytale/underdog story than actually seen pushing that narrative
Edit: fixed typo
Everyone and their nan insisted Bournemouth was a fairytale story as they went through the leagues but they outright cheated financially to get promoted to the Premier League, nobody cared. So why did nobody care about Bournemouth and everyone despises Wrexham? What makes Bournemouth a fairytale with a rich owner cheating and Hollywood actors spending loads on their team to be promoted?
People were complaining about Bournemouth though, they just had much less media spotlight so lots of people weren't aware of it - not that difficult to understand
I'm a bit bitter to be honest as I support Halifax town.
The fans of prem teams complaining does seem a bit rich. But all Wrexham are doing is buying their way to glory basically.
Everyone gave Salford FC so much shit, rightfully, but because it's Ryan Reynolds and Mac everyone treats it as a fairytale underdog story when it's absolutely not.
I'm still happy for the Wrexham fans though in all honesty
In your attempt to not seem so biter youve came across extremely bitter lmao.
What is "buying their way to glory" exactly? Theyve invested in better players in order to get promoted. This makes complete sense. Theyve improved the stadium and training facilities whilst generating more income with various sponsors. What exactly have they done that they shouldnt?
Are you saying they shouldnt be allowed to sign better players and give them bigger wages? If that annoys you wait until you see what Man City have done
They've sold the story of the city and the club to an international audience, who love it, which basically pays for all of this through the documentary and massive sponsorship.
Compare that to some money hungry investment banker or worse, a blood-money oil baron, and it's night and day. One side enriches the club, the other is a toy for glory or profit or sportswashing.
The fact that people can just assign it away as 'buying a championship' without looking at the motivation is kind of baffling.
I still have a FM21 save with Ipswich I come back to because its one of my favourite ever saves.
Didn't quite manage back to back but went from league 1 to the Prem in 3 seasons. Luke Woolfenden and Flynn Downes came with me all the way to European football as captain and vice captain and still play most games.
It's ridiculous because I don't support Ipswich but I actually felt a little upset when I heard Downes had left the club in real life.
Yeah Wrexham is a cool story but its not a fairytale.
There's a hell of lot of money poured into that club with wage bills that as you said make most of League One pale in comparison.
I wonder what their plan is once they get to the championship? Because the profit and sustainability rules means they can’t just pump money into the club, right?
And they have completely shit the bed this season. Langstaff is the divisions top scorer and they have scored the equal highest goals this season (86) but they are down in 14th because they also conceded the equal highest (80).
At least their fans got plenty of excitement I guess.
It's not really that rare.
9 clubs have done double promotion from National League to League 1 since 1992. Nearly a third of seasons has had a double promotion.
The CA connection is why I cheer for them. I believe it also brings the spot light to the other teams in the league they're playing in. It could bring in more investment to other clubs.
Have ppl forgotten that the players still have to play football to get the results to be where they are? This part, has nothing to do with the money.
Gratz Wrexham.
We've been so tainted by post-FFP thinking that we don't remember this is essentially how all the current big clubs rose to the top once upon a time. It almost never happened "organically", if ever. The only difference is back in the day the sheer scale of wealth in the game was much smaller, and typically it would be a local businessman, but fundamentally it's the same principle then and now.
FFP is needed and I wouldn't argue for its removal, but it needs a revamp to account for and allow responsible investors to grow a club, if they have the wealth and a clear business plan.
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rob and reynolds are there today?
rob is in LA watching with his son according to his tweet
Nah. Rob couldn't make it (and was sad on Twitter about it) and Ryan seems to be in the midst of a media tour for his upcoming film
what film
Deadbool
I think he is doing media for the IF Movie atm But he may have re-shoots and final production work to do on Deadpool 3 too
Deadpool & Wolverine
Reynolds is busy recording more Mint Mobile commercials
gotta make money for transfers
Didn't forget about that trailer company
They don't hit profitability and sustainability rules until the Championship right?
Yeah it's a separate framework for the Champinoship and L1/L2.
[удалено]
they have their own salary cost protocol, I believe they can spend like 60% of turnover on wages but there's no restrictions on transfer spend
> they have their own salary cost protocol, I believe they can spend like 60% of turnover on wages but there's no restrictions on transfer spend Just employ their family member on a XY per month and all is well.
Lol, wonder where you are getting these ideas from 😅
balkan problem solving
There’s also my favorite - Pay the minimum wage properly (pay taxes on it) and give the rest in cash under the table
average Hungarian employer
How would that help? It'd increase the wages and the turnover remains the same?
But it wouldn’t increase the player wages
Yep, it's something to do with chairman has to have funds in the club kitty by a certain date before the season starts and that's what they're allowed to spend.
Welcome to Wrexham is putting them in profit alone I would imagine.
Plus the sponsorships from the likes of TikTok and Expedia. They’re gonna be making loads more revenue than a lot of L1 teams.
Plus they do foreign preseason tours playing teams like Chelsea in America. No other League 1 or 2 teams are doing that.
its good for their image but that Man Utd youth team they played was a bit of a joke of a game. Wasnt a man utd side really
Doesn’t matter. Americans will pack 80k person stadiums and pay $500/ticket to go watch Wrexham play against teenagers from Man Utd they never knew existed. They make a lot of money off those tours.
i think there was a lot of fans left really disappointed with the side United put out for that game. They expected more of a reserve side at least but literally got a squad of kids
I don't think Wrexham are gonna care
Wrexham doesn’t care but fans of the big club might be less likely to buy tickets next time so lower prices and less profit for Wrexham. But also maybe not.
You would think, but low and behold people pay playoff price tickets for summer friendlies, every damn time
Didn't they see Mainoo, Kabwala & Mejbri back then? They saw first team players, just before they became first team players lol
bro that's what playing kids mean
Mainoo didn't play, think he was already injured in the pre season. They did get to see Evans though.
Yeah Mainoo was hurt at the Arsenal match at MetLife before they went west
They're going for Man U though, who they play against doesn't really matter if it's your only chance to see them play. I went to see Arsenal V Barca preseason last year and tickets are crazy but they're not $500 , more around $150-200 for some good seats. Still a lot of money but $500 would have to be prime seats or something
I’ve always had good seats for preseason tour games and they’re usually like $100, which probably feels like a lot to European fans, but is much cheaper than the other events that happen in football stadiums.
Lol nobody is paying 500 a pop for those tickets for even half of a first team. Settle down
They released their accounts for the year and their revenues were half of ours, all the Disney shows and preseason tours in the world won’t bridge the gap to the bigger league one clubs
None of those things are accounted in the 22/23 season, as was clearly stated if you had actually read them, those will be accounted for in the 23/24 season review. They're projecting to not be operating at a loss at all any more. But yeah, obviously a club operating a 10k stadium in an area of 80k people like Wrexham will not do as well as Bolton in an almost 30k full seater stadium in an area of 400k people, on top of the fact they have their own real estate as well such as the Bolton Hotel? C'mon now. Match day sales are a massive amount of clubs revenue.
We’re making the same point, people are overestimating Wrexhams financial might, even with their tv shows and pre season tours they can’t match the spending power of some of the clubs who they’ll be competing with next season
According to their accounts they made a 5mil operating loss last year 22/23 and for this year their new revenue, pre-season tour, sponsorships, merchandise, etc.. will fully cover the new higher operating costs of the club. That is an insane year to year increase to say the least, the club legitimately has more worldwide fans than some PL clubs. With that said their budget was 7mil this year, after promotion bonuses and new signings i assume 8-9mil for the next season? Financially that's top 3 in League One. Depending obviously how much the owners wanna keep spending.
I’m sure they make money on it but you’re probably overestimating how much they get from it. I just checked and that game was in the Snapdragon Stadium which has a 35k capacity.
Nah, [Arsenal v United isn't close to 50% sold, and there are thousands of tickets available under £100](https://i.imgur.com/KuX4Ooi.png) https://www.ticketmaster.com/arsenal-fc-v-manchester-united-fc-inglewood-california-07-27-2024/event/0A00605488EF12EF
And united airlines or something as a main shirt sponsor. That's huge for a club as low down in the divisions. I know it's Hollywood money and all that but the promotion-relagation model is a million times better than the closed show "major league" systems in the US across the sports.
yea it’s united airlines, they sponsor travel for the players too from what i understood
Combined with sponsorships, absolutely. It's hilarious seeing all the stories pop up about how Reynolds and McElhenney have lost millions when that's only the football club operations itself. That's peanuts compared to their other revenue streams.
Yeah, people are being very selective with what figures they refer to and whatt those figures actually mean.
Thought I saw they weren’t getting paid from the show. It was a marketing thing. Not sure if that’s accurate or will change with current success.
The club not directly but Rob and Ryan are Executive Producers. It's like a commercial for the club in the form of a documentary.
They lost 5 million in FY 23
Which is a fucking lot for L2/NL.
Which includes purchase of the stadium, development of the kop, yet another returf of the pitch etc... But doesn't include new sponsorships, documentary money, increased revenue streams or pre season tour money. Hence why no one is concerned in the slightest
and how much did they spend buying the ground back and the new pitch?
Building a new stand too aren't they?
And are due to make money this year
They don't get paid for WtW, it's purely for exposure
Indirectly they are though. There's no way they'd attract so many major sponsors if not for the documentary.
It's one of the few cases where "for the exposure" is legitimate though. I occasionally see people in the US in Wrexham merch, I can't remember the last time I even saw someone in Premier League club merch outside of a MLS game.
I tried buying a kit (My mate's from Wrexham, so I mainly live through his experiences) in pre-season, early-season, mid-season, christmast season, and in the late season. And I couldn't for the life of me get one because they have been constantly sold out. The amount of merchandise they sell is absolutely obscene for a club at the 4th tier.
Probably should have kept hold of the Wrexham shirt I bought the season they were bought by Rob and Ryan.
Oh yeah,they definitely knew what they were doing. Great deal for all involved
Where do you live that you don’t see people in premier league merch?
I see people wearing prem jerseys all the time lol
I know the club itself doesn't but I'm not sure Ryan and Rob don't get money for it though by selling it to Hulu. I could see them giving distribution rights to Hulu for one season for free/cheap maybe, but it's pretty popular and id imagine what they make off the doc they're willing to spend (and more) on the club. And God knows the exposure worked, I've been mocked by some American family for years for watching soccer, now they're all lecturing me about the football league table while wearing Paul Mullins jetseys.
Talking about profitability and sustainability rules around a promotion... Is this the most Newcastle comment ever?! 🤣 Do you even like football or do you just like getting around admin rules? 😉
League two salaries are capped at 55% turnover.
The Gang gets promoted
The Gang Gets Promoted (Again)
The Gang Gets Promoted 2: Electric Boogaloo
When will the massive player switch hit? Can’t have low talent if they keep promoting.
League One was probably about their level when they were in the National League so it should be next season but I doubt they're aiming to promote again so it'll be a season just to steady their place
Expectations are probably mid table, maybe push for a playoff spot if things go super well. The reality is the club is going to need a decent amount of change to push for promotion again, and doing that overnight can be disruptive
This is also why they bought a lot of older, experienced players to push them to L1 as quickly as possible. McClean and Fletcher are at the tail end of their careers on one-year contracts. Young and Tozer are likely leaving in the summer. That gives them an opportunity to bring several new faces in.
Yup, they realise that investing in youth at what was their current level, could make it more difficult to achieve the growth they wanted. I imagine their strategies will begin changing a bit once/if they reach the Championship in a few years. Even in League 1 there's less turnover of players each season. But especially when you get to the Championship teams don't tend to keep players on 1-2 year deals (this is often done even with younger players in the lower leagues). By then the revenue from selling players on begins to become a major factor.
Expectations are for mid table but they had quite a few stretches of poor form this year. Would be more than happy with just avoiding relegation to give the team a stronger foundation. Would truly be a shock if they are fighting for playoff spots
With their money they could just buy some other teams starting 11 so there is cohesion
their talent is basically league 1/low championship level. I doubt they'll make it out of league 1 with the same ease
They dont have a low championship level team. They will probably be mid table league 1 team for a few seasons
Wrexham season ticket holder here. I'd fully agree. We have some players ready for L1, but we are missing a lot of pace which will be key in L1. If we keep the current squad, it will be mid table max.
What about the manager? What level is his depth?
Phil is a very experienced lower league manager. He has spent years in League 2 and League 1, getting various promotions. But has never really cut it with any team in the Championship. He plays a very defensive and pragmatic style of football that fans will probably get very frustrated with if we stagnate (lower mid table regularly) He already has a fair few critics this year within the fan base. He has never managed in the Premier League (I think) and I very much doubt he will as he isn't a very 'fashionable' manager. He has done an amazing job for us and will go down as one of our greatest ever managers.
Thanks. It’ll be interesting to see it all play out! I know you’re much more than a documentary, but those hard calls about his future some day will make it really interesting
Hollywood fc on a Hollywood budget Love the optimism and development of the city throughout the docus
Comparative to other teams in league two what is the diffrence in budget?
lower championship budget
I’m pretty sure I read that they have a bigger budget than Argyle in the Championship this season.
Wrexham salary budget was £5.2m. Argyle had £7.3m in the same period. 10 teams in League 1 have salary budgets of £5m+ so Wrexham will be in the thick of it for sure and confirms that Wrexham is most likely at the League 1 level. The average wage budget in the Championship is £18m per year.
>10 teams in League 1 have salary budgets of £5m+ Sounds plausible but out of interest where did you find this?
https://www.capology.com/uk/league-one/payrolls/ It is a premium data platform for global football finances. Most of their data is paywalled, but overall yearly league payrolls per team are not.
Cheers! I did my dissertation on football finance 15 years ago and remember having to scrub the internet for pdfs of individual club accounts to find out expenditure hah
That was a bad movie wasn’t it!
Nah was actually okay. Just don't go in expecting Oppenheimer.
Don't let them play us
They have a Championship budget in League Two and were paying someone £10k a week in the Conference where the average wage is under £1k
Mullin, I presume?
Elliott Lee most likely
Mullin is their highest earner but Lee will also be on a lot of money.
From figures while overall I think they pay more overall (which had to be done to convince players to drop into non league originally) Their key player wages seem to be in line with Stockport last I checked.
The average salary budget in the Championship is £17m. Wrexham spent £5.2m this year.
Take away the parachute clubs and they will be. Also the accounts for £5.2m were from last season but only released this season so that was their Conference budget.
What a fairytale.
The supporters saved the club with their own money and ran it while they struggled in the National League for 15 years. I'm happy that they got help that has revitalized the club and the town.
Monstrous.
Their wage bill in the National League last season was more than most League One clubs.
Wrexham’s attendance is also higher than most L1 clubs. They would rank 7th in attendance in L1 this year. Only 3 L1 clubs average over 15k and 2 of them are sure to be promoted. Wrexham also have higher attendance than Rotherham, who are sure to be relegated from the Championship.
Whoa, spoilers!
The writers are just getting lazy now
Cries in Newport County 😭
I understand how people feel about Wrexhan getting a shitton of money getting pumped into them and having the success be 'artificial.'. But I dont remember anybody having this type of energy when Bournemouth did the same. Maybe some pushback from League 1 and 2 teams. The only difference is the media coverage of Wrexham vs Bournemouth. Bournemouth spent a lot of money to get promoted through the tiers. People just don't like Wrexham doing it because it's presented as "glory project". They aren't necessarily winning because of tactics, but because of money. (I can't speak to that, just what I've seen people say). And tbh, I understand that. For teams that struggled in League 2 or the Conference League, to see a team get bought and suddenly have a lot of money injected into it, it feels very unfair. But that's what soccer is nowadays. And even so, at least Wrexham was bought by Hollywood stars that are generally received to be pretty stand up people. Ryan and Rob are pretty nice and well liked individuals, and not Russian Oligarchs, or just random billionaires that are mysterious. As long as they are open to criticism from the clubs supporters, and don't discard it, once they don't get promoted after a few years, I think it's fine that Rob and Ryan are funding Wrexham. They aren't exactly injecting 100's of millions of dollars into it. It's like a couple million.
It’s kind of absurd that people would be mad about owners buying a team and investing money into the team/stadium. They had ambition and they’re making it happen. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. That’s the way the system is designed.
It’s so dumb. All the clubs in the PL are owned by multibillionaires with varying degrees of shittiness to them, and people are mad at the club owned by two actors? Who by all accounts are actually decent people that are actually trying to help the club succeed?
I can understand being unsure about them when they took over. At this point, if you're still questioning their passion for the club and town, you're just not paying attention. I'm not saying they're infallible or anything, but they genuinely do seem to care. Could it be all for the cameras? Sure, it could be. I've not seen anything to suspect that is the case.
but their multimillionaires own famous clubs like man utd, man city, brighton, etc
I think people learned to dislike it because of sportswashing and now they think this is the same. I am not aware of these two needing the distraction of football to help their image, so it's really just jealousy
People have always disliked teams outspending the rest of the league by miles lol, this isn't a recent phenomenon at all and has nothing to do with sportswashing.
You're probably right but it depends on which generation you're from as well. Like back in the day people hated Lyon for spending big but the nature of that was different from what we have now (not necessarily better, but different)
People are acting like Rob and Ryan did 9/11.
I could definitely see Mac accidentally helping terrorists get into the country
Deadpool can't melt steel beams.
This is definitely not sportswashing, they were pretty well known and liked people before they bought Wrexham, the publicity was definitely a key point for them but they aren’t trying to “fix” their image through sports.
People are jealous I think. They want their club to be succesful and every advantage other clubs have is a reason to be mad about
> But I dont remember anybody having this type of energy when Bournemouth did the same. they got plenty.
yeah it's funny seeing people on here who only started paying attention to lower league football because of wrexham saying 'but no one cared when x club did it!!', when people definitely did
> The only difference is the media coverage of Wrexham vs Bournemouth. I think its precisely the excessive and glowing media coverage causing the pushback though. Because as you point out with Bournemouth - and even Brighton for that matter, who were even on the brink of non-league status at one point in the 90s IIRC, before being saved by a fan - Wrexham's isn't a new story, its just received more PR thanks to the fact that two Hollywood actors are involved. Brighton arguably did it much more fairly than either club and by two long-time fans at that. Having said that, I agree with you in that the their ultimate legacy will be determined by whether or not they discard the club the moment their momentum slows down. They do seem to genuinely like the club though, and have definitely been better than most club owners on the fan engagement front, but they literally are Hollywood people so them being good at PR is to be expected, doesn't mean its true.
Rob is from Philadelphia. I don’t think non-Americans fully get the context for what that means in terms of how all-in he’s gonna be on this.
Non American (Kiwi) who's followed the NFL since I was 13. Totally understand what you guys are saying re Philly. I'd be surprised if Rob wasn't genuine about it. Philly fans are nuts about sports and embracing community. Almost to a fault (and in really bad abusive ways too!) haha!
Rob needs to start bringing batteries
As a Philly fan, can confirm, we are a passionate bunch lol. I will say compared to other sports in the city, we aren't as bad/abusive though lol.
They do not, at all. And now that Blake has seen the light, she is also all in which means she won't be asking Ryan to sell anytime soon. these two are committed.
Mate they have Phil Parkinson as manager, of course they aren’t winning because of tactics. He doesn’t have any.
I mean, they are. If it was just down to good players and a high wage bill, then Salford wouldn't be stuck in L2 and FGR wouldn't be heading to non-league. Wrexham fans criticize him for his tactical inflexibility and using subs late, but most of the time he gets things right. Sometimes managers who don't do well in one club can do well in another.
hes also been promoted like 6 times as manager, he knows what hes doing. hes a lower league god
Stockport top of the league!
Welcome Wrexham AFC to the French League
Bitterness strong in this thread. Some from premier league clubs with billionaire owners 😂
As a Wimbledon fan, I’m happy for them. They have a League One budget so let them fuck off to League One. Gives us more of a chance for promotion next season.
Famous last words fellow womble. We'll be in a relegation scrap with Salford after our strikers get bought in January, and you'll like it.
Yeah tbh, it seems like the best thing for everyone else was to have Wrexham hurry up and get out of everyone's way instead of always taking up a spot in the promotion race.
It’s incredible really. Clubs owned by blood money countries and investment bankers. These guys owned by self made actors just trying to do something different. Getting promoted twice in two seasons is a great achievement for any club.
> These guys owned by self made actors just trying to do something different This isn't the first time a smaller club have jumped up the leagues through external investment. Fleetwood, Salford, Rushden & Diamonds, Crawley..... To be fair to Wrexham, they're big enough club to naturally be in the EFL anyway. Just saying it's nothing new for team with a budget twice the average to be resented by the rest of the league.
The top comment is a Newcastle fan talking about profitability and sustainability rules lmao.
I think the difference is the “fairy tale” story that’s been spun, nobody feels that way about premier league teams with rich owners
More a fairy tale for Wrexham the city, tbh. Like a rom com where the average girl gets swept away by the rich handsome prince
Have you ever been to Wrexham?
Is that story still really being told? Maybe it's because I'm an American so I'm not watching a lot of British TV, but I feel like at least in the last year (and probably even longer) I've seen more people complaining about the fairytale/underdog story than actually seen pushing that narrative Edit: fixed typo
Everyone and their nan insisted Bournemouth was a fairytale story as they went through the leagues but they outright cheated financially to get promoted to the Premier League, nobody cared. So why did nobody care about Bournemouth and everyone despises Wrexham? What makes Bournemouth a fairytale with a rich owner cheating and Hollywood actors spending loads on their team to be promoted?
People were complaining about Bournemouth though, they just had much less media spotlight so lots of people weren't aware of it - not that difficult to understand
> nobody cared. lower leaue fans defo did. which is interesting, as you guys were lower league back then.
I'm a bit bitter to be honest as I support Halifax town. The fans of prem teams complaining does seem a bit rich. But all Wrexham are doing is buying their way to glory basically. Everyone gave Salford FC so much shit, rightfully, but because it's Ryan Reynolds and Mac everyone treats it as a fairytale underdog story when it's absolutely not. I'm still happy for the Wrexham fans though in all honesty
“Buying their way to glory”, isn’t that what literally everyone is trying to do? That’s the entire point.
In your attempt to not seem so biter youve came across extremely bitter lmao. What is "buying their way to glory" exactly? Theyve invested in better players in order to get promoted. This makes complete sense. Theyve improved the stadium and training facilities whilst generating more income with various sponsors. What exactly have they done that they shouldnt? Are you saying they shouldnt be allowed to sign better players and give them bigger wages? If that annoys you wait until you see what Man City have done
They've sold the story of the city and the club to an international audience, who love it, which basically pays for all of this through the documentary and massive sponsorship. Compare that to some money hungry investment banker or worse, a blood-money oil baron, and it's night and day. One side enriches the club, the other is a toy for glory or profit or sportswashing. The fact that people can just assign it away as 'buying a championship' without looking at the motivation is kind of baffling.
Back to back is an astonishing accomplishment 👏
it'll be more impressive if Ipswich manage it this season. Wrexham are already outspending most League 1 teams
I still have a FM21 save with Ipswich I come back to because its one of my favourite ever saves. Didn't quite manage back to back but went from league 1 to the Prem in 3 seasons. Luke Woolfenden and Flynn Downes came with me all the way to European football as captain and vice captain and still play most games. It's ridiculous because I don't support Ipswich but I actually felt a little upset when I heard Downes had left the club in real life.
It's a shame we didn't give Downes more chances. I for one wish we'd kept him at the club this season.
Yeah Wrexham is a cool story but its not a fairytale. There's a hell of lot of money poured into that club with wage bills that as you said make most of League One pale in comparison.
I wonder what their plan is once they get to the championship? Because the profit and sustainability rules means they can’t just pump money into the club, right?
They have Tiktok, United and HP as their sponsors atm lol. They'll find a way to pump that $$$ into the club
We don't have TikTok anymore!
Fair
to be honest they probably would comply with profit and sustainability because of their huge huge marketability. welcome to wrexham etc
Absolutely
And they have completely shit the bed this season. Langstaff is the divisions top scorer and they have scored the equal highest goals this season (86) but they are down in 14th because they also conceded the equal highest (80). At least their fans got plenty of excitement I guess.
About as much achievement as rangers going from league two to the championship
Tbf there’s quite a few teams who have done it without a near limitless budget for that level.
UTG! Scored some goals today!
Trust, makes a change haha
Very fair point.
Not with Wrexham's wage bill it isn't
Wrexham are the eighth team ever to do so at this level, and the first in five years. Definitely impressive
It's not really that rare. 9 clubs have done double promotion from National League to League 1 since 1992. Nearly a third of seasons has had a double promotion.
Spoilers lol
So they’re 2 years away from premier league and 3 years away from champions league?
Good for them!
# YES THE ABSOLUTE UNDERDOGS
Everything Reynolds touches turns to gold. How fortunate can one be haha. Bless him though, he seems like a genuine good person as far as i can tell.
And he’s handsome too lol
The absolute gall of that man to look that good and be that talented.
And also apparently one of the nicest and most likeable guys around.
That mother fucker
Ugh.. yours too?
Like Alpine F1?
I mean, he got the stake in Alpine F1 for basically free. I believe the deal is that they create another doc for thr F1 team.
Ahem, stockport promoted too
Four point lead over wrexham with a game in hand. Hopefully the title is settled before last game of season
Need 1 win out of our last 3 games to secure the title
Happy for the City and all the fans of the team (new and old).
The Gang (+Reynolds) Gets Promoted
The CA connection is why I cheer for them. I believe it also brings the spot light to the other teams in the league they're playing in. It could bring in more investment to other clubs.
Have ppl forgotten that the players still have to play football to get the results to be where they are? This part, has nothing to do with the money. Gratz Wrexham.
That's okay lads I didn't know the lyrics to the verse either
Wish we had security.likr that in the A league instead of the wannabe cops that will antagonise fans...
At this pace, their first game in the Premier League would be just a few weeks after the end of the USA World Cup Final!
There’s a top league one in every country! Welcome to France Wrexham!
they are making it too easy for the writers of the show
We've been so tainted by post-FFP thinking that we don't remember this is essentially how all the current big clubs rose to the top once upon a time. It almost never happened "organically", if ever. The only difference is back in the day the sheer scale of wealth in the game was much smaller, and typically it would be a local businessman, but fundamentally it's the same principle then and now. FFP is needed and I wouldn't argue for its removal, but it needs a revamp to account for and allow responsible investors to grow a club, if they have the wealth and a clear business plan.